Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Moyes ? make the choice!
By Alex Mather :: 10/01/2012
87 Comments (»Last)
I was reading an article on another website about Pep Guardiola, the Barcelona manager... basically the jist of the article was about Has he over-stayed his welcome at Barca? He is now into his 4th season in charge and, after a draw against Espanyol at the weekend, many have said is he losing it as they fell 5 points behind Real Madrid (if only we Evertonians had such worries).
The Hungarian coach Bela Guttman always advised according to the article that "the third year was fatal"; this has rung true with some managers but not with others (Ferguson) at United for example.
Now the article got me thinking about David Moyes... in March this year, he will have served a decade in charge of Everton. Many believe long before this season he had out-stayed his welcome but more and more are starting to believe it was time he walked as the performances this season have been awful.
Personally I have had my moans about Moyes but the last decade has been much better than the decade that preceded him taking charge ? the only exception being the 95 FA Cup win.
The third-year rule is based largely on an effective group of players (successful or not) basically burning out or getting bored after the same man in charge has used the same tactics, formations, training regime etc. Ferguson at United has lasted so long because he has a knack for moving players on when he feels they are not motivated or are past their prime.
Now to compare Moyes with either Ferguson or Guardiola would be largely unfair, we all know the constraints Moyes has had in the transfer market over the last 3 years but I feel, that aside, if Moyes had dealt with things a little differently, then we might possibly be in a better situation than we currently find ourselves in.
I know Moyes has had to move players on largely through selling them to get the cash to bank (Arteta, Pienaar, Yakubu ? the list can and will be added too, I have no doubt) but my gripe with Moyes is he has sulked because of this and not got the best out of the squad he has left.
We do have quality in the current crop we have and, on any given matchday, we have 18 players available, but Moyes's rigid use of the 4-5-1 formation plus playing players out of position, and playing players out of form has hindered any progress which could have taken place.
Also, his stubbornness is a major barrier and I feel, whatever Moyes goes on to achieve, either at Everton or elsewhere, this will be his ultimate downfall and will prove costly if he ever wants to regarded as a great manager. This stubbornness plus his defensive-minded nature has effectively put Everton in the current predicament ? obviously the off-field issues haven?t helped and every manager needs money ? but that is another bigger issue.
Moyes needs to start to believe in the current players he has because ? unless the billionaire we would all love rocks up soon ? he is stuck with them. He needs to build them up, especially in public... give them confidence to go and do the job needed to win matches; the defeatist attitude needs to be ditched, the bench needs to be used long before the 80th minute if the game isn?t going well, and I know many will say he doesn?t have much of a bench but we know this, he knows this.
Stop whining and start to use Barkley... build him up, tell him he is the best thing since Rooney, get him alongside Fellaini and tell him to go and run the game! So what if he attracts the attention of richer clubs... he is doing that now while warming the bench/stands!
Personally, I feel, come May, Moyes will not be our Manager. I think he will get to the decade in charge and then walk. I don?t think the clown in the Chairman?s seat has the bollocks or the money to sack him anyway. And if Moyes has any respect for the supporters and the club, and he feels he can?t do anymore with his hands tied, then it is best that he walks for all concerned.
I for one will wish him luck because, in the decade he has been in charge, he has raised the bar for Everton compared with the relegation scraps of the 90s I sat through. So come on, Moyes ? it?s down to you to make the decision: change the attitude or walk away ? the choice is yours.
Reader Comments (87)
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Jimmy Sørheim
2 Posted 10/01/2012 at 15:26:29
2 Posted 10/01/2012 at 15:26:29
I think it is dull to watch Everton this season, and the huge turning point for me was the Man City comment: "Bringing a knife to a gun battle" which in my mind has served the current players no good at all. And also playing with the same out-of-form players such as Saha and Cahill has not set the correct example for the squad as a whole. Long gone is the promise from Moyes that he would only play those who where in-form and did well in training.
Too little faith in the other squad players has made the team look weaker then it is. An example of that was the Wigan game, where the team struggled to get a goal, but then Vellios and Drenthe came in and they both scored and played really well. Barkley too has hardly been played, and he is the kind of midfielder we need.
Overall it takes a looooooooooong time before Moyes starts to see alternatives to his ways, half the season had gone before he employed 4-4-2, and played Bily in his right position as an attacking midfielder. Though Bily did not do well as a central midfielder, he certainly is a much better option than Neville and Heitinga; give him enough games in that position AND he might get his confidence back along with his form.
I do want to give Moyes credit for trying out a new formation with a few new players as well, this could be a solution in the long run. And I implore Moyes to stick with the 4-4-2 formation, but to play our youngsters a lot more then he has so far. Vellios and Barkley for me are now ready to play regularly, in a rotation with Saha and Cahill. If they improve our play and help get us goals then I see no reason to keep them on the bench. Saha and Cahill need the rest and the competition.
Too little faith in the other squad players has made the team look weaker then it is. An example of that was the Wigan game, where the team struggled to get a goal, but then Vellios and Drenthe came in and they both scored and played really well. Barkley too has hardly been played, and he is the kind of midfielder we need.
Overall it takes a looooooooooong time before Moyes starts to see alternatives to his ways, half the season had gone before he employed 4-4-2, and played Bily in his right position as an attacking midfielder. Though Bily did not do well as a central midfielder, he certainly is a much better option than Neville and Heitinga; give him enough games in that position AND he might get his confidence back along with his form.
I do want to give Moyes credit for trying out a new formation with a few new players as well, this could be a solution in the long run. And I implore Moyes to stick with the 4-4-2 formation, but to play our youngsters a lot more then he has so far. Vellios and Barkley for me are now ready to play regularly, in a rotation with Saha and Cahill. If they improve our play and help get us goals then I see no reason to keep them on the bench. Saha and Cahill need the rest and the competition.
Brian Harrison
3 Posted 10/01/2012 at 15:45:54
3 Posted 10/01/2012 at 15:45:54
There is no doubt that Davie Moyes has lost some of his sparkle of late. But I think that given the circumstances of the last 3 transfer windows even Ferguson, Wenger or Redknapp would have found it difficult to stay as positive.
Not only has he had to sell his better players, he has not been allowed to replace them, even with less talented players. That surely has to have an effect on his mindset, which over the last 12 months has been extremely negative.
I know many go on and on about using a 4-5-1 system being negative, but Spurs are playing some great football using the same tactic with Van de Vart playing behind Adebayor. I just think we choose to play the system in a negative way having 2 central midfielders who sit in midfield rather than making forward runs to link up with the forwards.
I think also people forget that a couple of seasons back Davie had us playing some great football although we lacked a top class finisher which we still lack today. But this is the one position on the field that costs the most, and money has been in short supply in the last few seasons.
I do hope that Davie gets back to playing a more adventurous style of football, as I would hate his legacy to be determined by his last 2 seasons. I do agree with the original poster that maybe some more attacking coaches may help.
Not only has he had to sell his better players, he has not been allowed to replace them, even with less talented players. That surely has to have an effect on his mindset, which over the last 12 months has been extremely negative.
I know many go on and on about using a 4-5-1 system being negative, but Spurs are playing some great football using the same tactic with Van de Vart playing behind Adebayor. I just think we choose to play the system in a negative way having 2 central midfielders who sit in midfield rather than making forward runs to link up with the forwards.
I think also people forget that a couple of seasons back Davie had us playing some great football although we lacked a top class finisher which we still lack today. But this is the one position on the field that costs the most, and money has been in short supply in the last few seasons.
I do hope that Davie gets back to playing a more adventurous style of football, as I would hate his legacy to be determined by his last 2 seasons. I do agree with the original poster that maybe some more attacking coaches may help.
Jimmy Sørheim
4 Posted 10/01/2012 at 15:51:27
4 Posted 10/01/2012 at 15:51:27
Have you not watched the two last games? Moyes has changed, but only because of injuries. He could have opted for 4-5-1 against Tamworth but played the more attacking 4-4-2. It will take a few games but at least this is a change for the better. I find that Saha does much better playing with a partner than without, and with Bily coming forward from the central midfield position he can try some long shots and maybe get some assists or a goal or two.
Keep in mind that we have been playing with Neville and Heitinga in the middle, but now we have Fellaini back who now will play alongside Bily, that is most certainly a much better pair to have than two defenders. We shall wait and see if my faith in the two is right or wrong, but I would rather stick a sharp needle in my finger than watch Neville and Heitinga play as midfielders. Hope you agree on that at least!!!
Keep in mind that we have been playing with Neville and Heitinga in the middle, but now we have Fellaini back who now will play alongside Bily, that is most certainly a much better pair to have than two defenders. We shall wait and see if my faith in the two is right or wrong, but I would rather stick a sharp needle in my finger than watch Neville and Heitinga play as midfielders. Hope you agree on that at least!!!
Tony Marsh
5 Posted 10/01/2012 at 15:44:42
5 Posted 10/01/2012 at 15:44:42
Stop sulking and use Barkley...
Barkley has had it with Moyes and I know this to be a fact. That kid will be gone before you can say Wayne Rooney and who could blame him?
Moyes is a horrible miserable twat and most of the players can't stand him. You can see this in the body language. Moyes hasn't just lost the dressing room ? he's lost the whole Everton family... And the plot!
Barkley has had it with Moyes and I know this to be a fact. That kid will be gone before you can say Wayne Rooney and who could blame him?
Moyes is a horrible miserable twat and most of the players can't stand him. You can see this in the body language. Moyes hasn't just lost the dressing room ? he's lost the whole Everton family... And the plot!
Tony J Williams
6 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:15:19
6 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:15:19
You heard it first from Tony Marsh....and thats a FACT with a capital S.
Dave Lynch
7 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:17:28
7 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:17:28
I got the same feel from Arteta Tony.
His first interview in an Arsenal shirt he sounded like a giant weight had been lifted off his shoulders.
His first interview in an Arsenal shirt he sounded like a giant weight had been lifted off his shoulders.
Mike Elbey
8 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:18:38
8 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:18:38
Interesting you should say that about Barkley Tony. I heard a rumour that we were considering sending him out on loan !! Possibly linked to a fall out between him and Moyes ?
Mind you Moyes doesnt fall out with gifted players does he ? Well apart from ...................
Mind you Moyes doesnt fall out with gifted players does he ? Well apart from ...................
Mike Elbey
9 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:23:36
9 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:23:36
Jimmy, he is only changing his tactics because of injuries. The bonus for us at the moment is that its all defensive players that are getting injured - Coleman, Hibbert, Jagielka, Rodwell.
Do you honestly think he would play Billy in central midfield ahead of Neville or Heitinga if he didnt HAVE to deploy them in the defence. Do you really think he would have played 442 if it were not for the injuries ?
The whole situation right thjrough the club at the moment is absolutely dire.
Do you honestly think he would play Billy in central midfield ahead of Neville or Heitinga if he didnt HAVE to deploy them in the defence. Do you really think he would have played 442 if it were not for the injuries ?
The whole situation right thjrough the club at the moment is absolutely dire.
Ray Roche
10 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:24:18
10 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:24:18
Tony Marsh
"Barkley has had it with Moyes and I know this to be a fact."
Please elaborate on that statement, Tony.
"Barkley has had it with Moyes and I know this to be a fact."
Please elaborate on that statement, Tony.
Ryan Holroyd
11 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:26:47
11 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:26:47
The players can't stand Moyes! OK. That's why Donovan came to play for him when he could have stayed in America. Jags could have gone to Arsenal but stayed, Baines could have gone to Bayern but didn't. Plus Barkley is currently injured. The lad said so on twitter himself. And that is FACT!
Derek Arrowsmith
12 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:32:52
12 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:32:52
Just doing the usual trawl around the interwebs hopeful of finding good news about the club and I came across this article from March 2011:
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/David-Moyes-claims-he-will-quit-as-Everton-manager-when-the-supporters-decide-it-is-time-for-him-to-go-article718579.html
It will be interesting to see if the 'Moyesiah' lives up to this promise as crowd numbers continue to drop as a reflection of his performance in team/tactics selection.
Mike Manchester
13 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:29:02
13 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:29:02
IMWT
Tony J Williams
14 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:35:36
14 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:35:36
Derek, I reckon he probably would if the dwindling numbers was just because of his tactics and not a combination of the useless board, his tactics, the players not being arsed and people not being able to justify the costs of going the game anymore.
Dave Lynch
15 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:38:30
15 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:38:30
Tony.
Surely the players not being arsed is down to Moyes and Round ?
Surely the players not being arsed is down to Moyes and Round ?
Andy MacRae
16 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:43:52
16 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:43:52
I've just seen this quote from Moyes, regarding Wednesday night's game against Spurs:?
"They're one of the sides you would go and probably pay to watch. Well, I certainly would at the moment. I think they're exciting, they've got speed, they've got players with really good ability all over the pitch - they're a good team. What they are doing and the way they are playing is terrific."
So, he knows that fans like to pay to watch good football. But he plays negative hoofball at a team that is desperate for money.
With a statement like that, he surely knows that he is killing this football club ? when its already on its knees.
Shame on you, Moyes. In Moyes We Cry.
Ray Robinson
17 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:45:20
17 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:45:20
Moyes has stated that he will go when the majority of fans no longer want him. Well, many fans are like me and are indebted to Moyes for what he has done for us in very difficult circumstances. It's not in my nature to hurl abuse at a guy who despite his dour temperament, seems quite a likeable, certainly principled sort of guy.
If most people are like me, they would rather stay away from games rather than barrack a manager who ? let's face it, put some pride back in the club. Ok, that may be rapidly evaporating now but it would be perhaps better, if Moyes, principled as he is, quits the job if he is so disiilusioned, rather than be hounded out by the fans he has on the whole served so well.
If most people are like me, they would rather stay away from games rather than barrack a manager who ? let's face it, put some pride back in the club. Ok, that may be rapidly evaporating now but it would be perhaps better, if Moyes, principled as he is, quits the job if he is so disiilusioned, rather than be hounded out by the fans he has on the whole served so well.
Tony J Williams
18 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:58:16
18 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:58:16
"Tony.
Surely the players not being arsed is down to Moyes and Round ?" - Not entirely no.
The problem faced, especially this season, is that is one of his players underperforms (ie isn't arsed) he has no-one to replace him with.
These poor players hey? Tens of thousands a week and they blame the manager for them falling over their feet three yards from goal.
Surely the players not being arsed is down to Moyes and Round ?" - Not entirely no.
The problem faced, especially this season, is that is one of his players underperforms (ie isn't arsed) he has no-one to replace him with.
These poor players hey? Tens of thousands a week and they blame the manager for them falling over their feet three yards from goal.
Tony J Williams
19 Posted 10/01/2012 at 17:01:20
19 Posted 10/01/2012 at 17:01:20
"So, he knows that fans like to pay to watch good football. But he plays negative hoofball at a team that is desperate for money"
Andy, I think the clue is in the bit where he states, "they've got speed, they've got players with really good ability all over the pitch" - Don't relate to our team/squad
Andy, I think the clue is in the bit where he states, "they've got speed, they've got players with really good ability all over the pitch" - Don't relate to our team/squad
James McPherson
20 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:51:24
20 Posted 10/01/2012 at 16:51:24
The last straw in what has been a season to forget was his comment prior to the Arsenal and Stoke matches.
Having won back to back matches - the faintest glimmer of confidence returning, something to get hold of, something to build upon, continue to climb up the table...no sadly Moyes thought it opportune to state that we could be right back down the table if we lose the next two games...and the two victories were papering over the cracks...hey presto....we lost the next two games.
Before anybody leaps in...yes I know that is factually correct...yes I know that we are not/were not playing that well and yes we the fans were saying something similar on our private forum...
However £65k per week should deliver positivity..surely...at least try...and if you can't be positive...do not go out of your way to be negative...
He's a dead man walking....sad that a man who initially demonstrated strong principles is now so patently just taking the dough! If he's that fed up and hje thinks he's that far above where he now finds himself, then he should just leave.
Having won back to back matches - the faintest glimmer of confidence returning, something to get hold of, something to build upon, continue to climb up the table...no sadly Moyes thought it opportune to state that we could be right back down the table if we lose the next two games...and the two victories were papering over the cracks...hey presto....we lost the next two games.
Before anybody leaps in...yes I know that is factually correct...yes I know that we are not/were not playing that well and yes we the fans were saying something similar on our private forum...
However £65k per week should deliver positivity..surely...at least try...and if you can't be positive...do not go out of your way to be negative...
He's a dead man walking....sad that a man who initially demonstrated strong principles is now so patently just taking the dough! If he's that fed up and hje thinks he's that far above where he now finds himself, then he should just leave.
Barry Rathbone
22 Posted 10/01/2012 at 18:01:05
22 Posted 10/01/2012 at 18:01:05
To maintain impetus change either the manager or the players every few years. The Moyes stagnation is a perfect example why.
SAF built every few years including his number 2,, Redknapp is another who gets it, Wenger less so.
Moyes taking a chance wheeling and dealing???
look at the palava when City offered ludicrously over the odds money for lescott - Hell freezing over comes to mind.
He's an organiser putting out fires unfortunately he's kept pouring water till there's not even a spark where we need some fire.
Not entirely his fault a proper chairman would have pulled him to one side years ago but this is what happens when the tail wags the dog.
SAF built every few years including his number 2,, Redknapp is another who gets it, Wenger less so.
Moyes taking a chance wheeling and dealing???
look at the palava when City offered ludicrously over the odds money for lescott - Hell freezing over comes to mind.
He's an organiser putting out fires unfortunately he's kept pouring water till there's not even a spark where we need some fire.
Not entirely his fault a proper chairman would have pulled him to one side years ago but this is what happens when the tail wags the dog.
Sam Hoare
23 Posted 10/01/2012 at 18:23:56
23 Posted 10/01/2012 at 18:23:56
Barry, how is Moyes meant to maintain impetus when the chairman does not give him the proceeds of players sales?!
No wonder things have gone a little stale when he has not been allowed to buy new players for 2 and a half years!! Ferguson and Wenger have always had funds made available to bring in new blood and keep the squad looking fresh. Its like asking a fishmonger to keep the stock looking tasty without giving him any ice...
No wonder things have gone a little stale when he has not been allowed to buy new players for 2 and a half years!! Ferguson and Wenger have always had funds made available to bring in new blood and keep the squad looking fresh. Its like asking a fishmonger to keep the stock looking tasty without giving him any ice...
Tony Marsh
24 Posted 10/01/2012 at 17:58:08
24 Posted 10/01/2012 at 17:58:08
Ray Roche, I know people who work very closely with the Everton players and a few of the players at the club. I have heard Moyes and Ross had a fallout when he wasn't selected for a home game before Xmas. Barkley wants to play and his bewildered why he can't get a game in this present alehouse team. Moyes as usual is treating players who have a bit about them like shit to knock them down a peg or two...
Believe me, I don't go in for all this my "best mate's sister's fella works in a..." blah, blah, blah. Barkley has had enough already and will want away from Moyes soon. Just like Rooney, he is getting the Moyes treatment.
How many more times does Moyes have to upset the talented players at the club before you wake up? There's a list as long as your arm of players who had run-ins with the Ginger Prick..
No matter what your views on Beckford last season were, that lad was treated like a leper by Moyes and he was our top scorer and match-winner. I think Moyes took a dislike to JB after his wonder goal match winner v Chelsea at Goodison... You see that running the length of the pitch and scoring isn't in the Moyes/Round manual.
Talent-free zone is what we are now...
Believe me, I don't go in for all this my "best mate's sister's fella works in a..." blah, blah, blah. Barkley has had enough already and will want away from Moyes soon. Just like Rooney, he is getting the Moyes treatment.
How many more times does Moyes have to upset the talented players at the club before you wake up? There's a list as long as your arm of players who had run-ins with the Ginger Prick..
No matter what your views on Beckford last season were, that lad was treated like a leper by Moyes and he was our top scorer and match-winner. I think Moyes took a dislike to JB after his wonder goal match winner v Chelsea at Goodison... You see that running the length of the pitch and scoring isn't in the Moyes/Round manual.
Talent-free zone is what we are now...
Robby Daniels
25 Posted 10/01/2012 at 19:01:40
25 Posted 10/01/2012 at 19:01:40
Tony, big statement of fact re Barkley; please explain, mate.
Barry Rathbone
26 Posted 10/01/2012 at 18:53:42
26 Posted 10/01/2012 at 18:53:42
Sam
This is where I might upset you.
I think the writings been on the wall since CL qualification, he missed his opportunity when we still had a pulse in the transfer market and complacency set in buoyed by "best of the rest".
Getting the reward now.
This is where I might upset you.
I think the writings been on the wall since CL qualification, he missed his opportunity when we still had a pulse in the transfer market and complacency set in buoyed by "best of the rest".
Getting the reward now.
James McPherson
27 Posted 10/01/2012 at 19:14:26
27 Posted 10/01/2012 at 19:14:26
Sam, like most people are saying - if he's that fed up, if he feels that badly served by his chairman, if he feels he's reached the limit, if he can be nothing other than dourly negative (knife to a gunfight) ....then he should go on his own volition.
He can't take the money and stay and continually gripe.
That's not on.
He can't take the money and stay and continually gripe.
That's not on.
Brian Waring
28 Posted 10/01/2012 at 19:28:50
28 Posted 10/01/2012 at 19:28:50
James, I reckon for £65,000 a week, most managers would let their chairman shaft them up the arse, literally!
Martin Handley
29 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:09:26
29 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:09:26
Moyes is no longer able to motivate the players. There was a time when players would crap themselves at the half-time whistle if we'd played badly first half, knowing they were going to get the "hairdryer" treatment... now they just shrug and laugh knowing that, no matter, what the manager will not praise them anyway and they'll still be paid their obscene wages.
Also, when Moyes first arrived, the heart of the team was BRITISH and they actually gave a shit ? people like Unsworth, Ferguson, Stubbs, Weir, Watson, Carsley etc ? limited in ability, maybe, but by god they'd stand up and fight when it mattered!
Now who do we have? Heitinga, Bily, Saha, Gueye... great technical players but cowards to a man, why? Because, if we go down, they'll do one because they DON'T CARE! Guess what ? I blame the manager for that as he's the one who's introduced these mercenaries to the club.
And before anybody says anything about Season 04-05, the spine of that team was British, we played attacking football but we could also turn 0-0 into 1-0 because those players were PROUD to wear the shirt!
Right, rant over back to my cell... Moyes out!
Also, when Moyes first arrived, the heart of the team was BRITISH and they actually gave a shit ? people like Unsworth, Ferguson, Stubbs, Weir, Watson, Carsley etc ? limited in ability, maybe, but by god they'd stand up and fight when it mattered!
Now who do we have? Heitinga, Bily, Saha, Gueye... great technical players but cowards to a man, why? Because, if we go down, they'll do one because they DON'T CARE! Guess what ? I blame the manager for that as he's the one who's introduced these mercenaries to the club.
And before anybody says anything about Season 04-05, the spine of that team was British, we played attacking football but we could also turn 0-0 into 1-0 because those players were PROUD to wear the shirt!
Right, rant over back to my cell... Moyes out!
Dave Wilson
30 Posted 10/01/2012 at 19:46:09
30 Posted 10/01/2012 at 19:46:09
"Barkleys had it with Moyes, I know that to be fact" . . .Ha Ha Ha You could`ve at least waited for the ink on the contract he`s JUST signed to dry.
Alex
"We do have quality in the current crop" Do you really believe that ? Baines aside, How many of our squad do you think would get a game in a top six side ?
Barry
I dont understand how youi can say Arry Redknap "gets it" . .but Moyes doesnt ? If Moyes beats him -again- tomorrow it will be the latest in a very very long list of spanking he has handed him down the years.
Brian
Sorry mate but your post is just about the oddest I`ve ever read on here . . .I find myself typing the words, standards, own and judging by.
Alex
"We do have quality in the current crop" Do you really believe that ? Baines aside, How many of our squad do you think would get a game in a top six side ?
Barry
I dont understand how youi can say Arry Redknap "gets it" . .but Moyes doesnt ? If Moyes beats him -again- tomorrow it will be the latest in a very very long list of spanking he has handed him down the years.
Brian
Sorry mate but your post is just about the oddest I`ve ever read on here . . .I find myself typing the words, standards, own and judging by.
Jimmy Sørheim
31 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:01:09
31 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:01:09
The players take their cues from their fans, but I have noticed that even when the crowd gets behind the players, this season they do not care.
They have given up, it is clear for all to see that players such as Cahill who has done so well over the years, suddenly turns into one of the worst.
They all know they are average, so they just turn up and collect their pay and go home and enjoy themselves on twitter saying they should do better, bla,bla,bla.
There is too much talk and to little action, real action.
We are so bored we can use a game these days to cure insomnia.
Wow, suddenly it all fits, the players have given up, Moyes did the same some time ago, and what are we left with???
Utter shit served to entertain fans, how long will that sustain the fans, people are running away from Goodison, it is indeed a feared place, but not for the away fans, it is feared among the home fans, and so they choose not to go and waist money.
I do love this club, but it is hurting me to see the current demise of what Moyes built up.
In fact he has taken an active part in dismantling it.
Selling Arteta and Yakubu who is a shiny example of players who have actually helped Moyes in getting to Europe, building this club from a relegation side into a top 6 contender. But not any more.
The bricks are gone, no foundation and nothing to supply it with.
I belive fans are not thick in the head, they see the signs, they saw them during the summer.
We need a change, it brings new life into stale heads and youngsters.
Look at Sunderland and think what if we could do the same!!!!
They have given up, it is clear for all to see that players such as Cahill who has done so well over the years, suddenly turns into one of the worst.
They all know they are average, so they just turn up and collect their pay and go home and enjoy themselves on twitter saying they should do better, bla,bla,bla.
There is too much talk and to little action, real action.
We are so bored we can use a game these days to cure insomnia.
Wow, suddenly it all fits, the players have given up, Moyes did the same some time ago, and what are we left with???
Utter shit served to entertain fans, how long will that sustain the fans, people are running away from Goodison, it is indeed a feared place, but not for the away fans, it is feared among the home fans, and so they choose not to go and waist money.
I do love this club, but it is hurting me to see the current demise of what Moyes built up.
In fact he has taken an active part in dismantling it.
Selling Arteta and Yakubu who is a shiny example of players who have actually helped Moyes in getting to Europe, building this club from a relegation side into a top 6 contender. But not any more.
The bricks are gone, no foundation and nothing to supply it with.
I belive fans are not thick in the head, they see the signs, they saw them during the summer.
We need a change, it brings new life into stale heads and youngsters.
Look at Sunderland and think what if we could do the same!!!!
Kevin Hudson
32 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:55:33
32 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:55:33
"Barkley has had it with Moyes and I know this to be a fact."
Don't leave us hanging, Tony. Elucidate.
Don't leave us hanging, Tony. Elucidate.
John Shaw
33 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:48:37
33 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:48:37
So Tony Marsh, you'll also know that Barkley has been struggling with a knee injury the last 2-3 weeks, fact!
I was a very big supporter of Moyes because he gave us our pride back in the first half of his tenure, now however, I'm not such a big fan. The reason is simple, I no longer look forward to going the match, I know I'm going to be watching utter fucking shite, that will probably struggle to get the points, even against 'lesser' teams!
I don't necessarily believe all the blame lies with Moyes, I think things have been going on behind the scenes, for a number of years, which we truely wouldn't believe, and I think you can see it in Moyes's face every time he addresses the media ? he has lost the sparkle he bounced into Goodison with, the inertia and shite eminating from the Boardroom has literally drained the soul and fight out of him.
And that is the sole fault of that smirking twat Kenwright and his cronies!
I was a very big supporter of Moyes because he gave us our pride back in the first half of his tenure, now however, I'm not such a big fan. The reason is simple, I no longer look forward to going the match, I know I'm going to be watching utter fucking shite, that will probably struggle to get the points, even against 'lesser' teams!
I don't necessarily believe all the blame lies with Moyes, I think things have been going on behind the scenes, for a number of years, which we truely wouldn't believe, and I think you can see it in Moyes's face every time he addresses the media ? he has lost the sparkle he bounced into Goodison with, the inertia and shite eminating from the Boardroom has literally drained the soul and fight out of him.
And that is the sole fault of that smirking twat Kenwright and his cronies!
Paul Gladwell
34 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:01:47
34 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:01:47
I have heard something has gone on too, he should not be out clubbing it too they are meant to be barred from town the young ones.
Simon Harris
35 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:38:04
35 Posted 10/01/2012 at 20:38:04
Barry - I agree that we missed the greatest of all opportunities, when we didn't add the required quality to our champions league qualifying squad.
But, are you seriously blaming Moyes for that? Do you honestly believe that he wouldn't have been in the market for Scott Parker that summer who went to Newcastle for £6.5? Or that he wouldn't have relished the chance to spend some serious money to take us to the next level, ala Spurs?
The truth is then, and remains true today, that we didn't have the necessary funds or ambition to compete in the transfer market and wage demands of top players.
The blame for that missed opportunity lays squarely with the board. - still pisses me right off today if I'm honest.
But, are you seriously blaming Moyes for that? Do you honestly believe that he wouldn't have been in the market for Scott Parker that summer who went to Newcastle for £6.5? Or that he wouldn't have relished the chance to spend some serious money to take us to the next level, ala Spurs?
The truth is then, and remains true today, that we didn't have the necessary funds or ambition to compete in the transfer market and wage demands of top players.
The blame for that missed opportunity lays squarely with the board. - still pisses me right off today if I'm honest.
Mark Riding
36 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:16:35
36 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:16:35
Ross Barkley knows he is not going to get a game, come what may... so why not go out late??
He could have played half-pissed and been man of the match against Tamworth anyway... Kendall would have encouraged it.
Never did Billy Kenny any harm.
He could have played half-pissed and been man of the match against Tamworth anyway... Kendall would have encouraged it.
Never did Billy Kenny any harm.
Peter Fearon
37 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:14:03
37 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:14:03
For all people blame Kenwright exclusively for our problems - and he is responsible for many of them - the fact remains that if we had qualified for the Champions League group stages when we had the chance, won the FA Cup when we had the chance and taken other clear cut opportunities, in the Europa League for example, we might not be in the state we are in today. Those failings may not be Moyes fault but they are his responsibility. He won't be leaving any time soon. Kenwright won't fire him and Moyes knows that overpaid jobs where nothing is demanded of you by upper management are few and far between. Even QPR expected something from Warnock. Everton expects nothing from David Moyes, not even half decent football.
Dean Adams
38 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:19:56
38 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:19:56
Maybe all yhe players should try it (going out and letting off steam). At least then we would not be able to blame them for not trying, as usual!!
John Shaw
39 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:29:36
39 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:29:36
Billy Kenny? Who's he? Oh, that waster who lasted about 8 months before throwing it away, yeh, great role model for young Ross !!!
Maybe, if in the summer when we finished 4th, Kenwright and the Board had allowed Moyes to improved the squad, which he stated at the end of the previous season would be needed, we wouldn't now be in the shit we are in. But no, the grey haired gobshite chose and his cohorts decided not to undertake measured investment, hardly a fucking penny was forthcoming, they blew our great chance to move up into the big leagues, and i'll never forgive the bunch of unambitious egotistical feeeloading twats !
Maybe, if in the summer when we finished 4th, Kenwright and the Board had allowed Moyes to improved the squad, which he stated at the end of the previous season would be needed, we wouldn't now be in the shit we are in. But no, the grey haired gobshite chose and his cohorts decided not to undertake measured investment, hardly a fucking penny was forthcoming, they blew our great chance to move up into the big leagues, and i'll never forgive the bunch of unambitious egotistical feeeloading twats !
Stuart Birkett
40 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:33:11
40 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:33:11
So do we get rid of Moyes and appoint Steve Bruce? Alan Curbishley, Roy Keane? No thank you. Moyes has no cash and has done a fantastic job which is why expectations are now so high.
It is not Moyes's fault that Rooney left, and it won't be his fault when Barkley and Rodwell leave, that's what happens when you get offered £100k a week, we'd all do the same.
Moyes can stay as long as he wants, grass is not always greener.
It is not Moyes's fault that Rooney left, and it won't be his fault when Barkley and Rodwell leave, that's what happens when you get offered £100k a week, we'd all do the same.
Moyes can stay as long as he wants, grass is not always greener.
Steavey Buckley
41 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:27:48
41 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:27:48
One of Everton's most gifted players, Jack Rodwell, has been injured many times during the past half season. And with Fellaini, he and Rodwell, when fit, are as good as most teams in the premier in the middle of the park. Everton's big weakness is up front, where is no one can score goals on a regular basis. And most teams in the premier league would struggle in the same situation. All that Everton can hope for the rest of the season, are their better players recover from injury. And players like Saha can score some goals.
Nick Entwistle
42 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:40:49
42 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:40:49
Didn't we sign Neville and... Davies in that summer of '05?
Just made my self laugh imagining those two walk with the CL theme tune accompanying them out onto the Goodison pitch.
Just made my self laugh imagining those two walk with the CL theme tune accompanying them out onto the Goodison pitch.
Mark Riding
43 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:44:15
43 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:44:15
John Shaw, the Billy Kenny comment was sarcastic... and the first line of your response just highlights what Im getting at...
Denis Richardson
44 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:24:02
44 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:24:02
Martin @270, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think its rubbish to blame Evertons current performances/ situation on non British players apparently 'not caring'. Presume the likes of Cahill, Arteta, Gravesen, Yobo, Howard etc didn't really try and 'didn't care'?
Also I wouldn't blame any Premier League player for leaving a club that had been relegated in order to move to a club that allows them to carry on playing at a higher level ? what's wrong with that? Each player is entitled to try and play at the highest level they can achieve ? Scott Parker ring any bells?? Seem to remember he cared quite a bit above West Ham last season.
This sort of post, bordering on xenophobia, really gets on my tits!
(Apology if that is not where you were coming from.)
Also I wouldn't blame any Premier League player for leaving a club that had been relegated in order to move to a club that allows them to carry on playing at a higher level ? what's wrong with that? Each player is entitled to try and play at the highest level they can achieve ? Scott Parker ring any bells?? Seem to remember he cared quite a bit above West Ham last season.
This sort of post, bordering on xenophobia, really gets on my tits!
(Apology if that is not where you were coming from.)
Stephen Kenny
45 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:39:44
45 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:39:44
Dave,
I'd say Heitinga, Distin,Jagielka, Baines, Drenthe, Fellaini, Rodwell and Barkley would all get in a top 6 side.
With honourable mentions to Seamus, Hibbert and Osman who are all more than capable at this level.
To say we have a squad which can't even compete with the teams immediately around is is shite, yet that's what the Moyesiah is trying to peddle every other week.
I'd say Heitinga, Distin,Jagielka, Baines, Drenthe, Fellaini, Rodwell and Barkley would all get in a top 6 side.
With honourable mentions to Seamus, Hibbert and Osman who are all more than capable at this level.
To say we have a squad which can't even compete with the teams immediately around is is shite, yet that's what the Moyesiah is trying to peddle every other week.
Dick Fearon
46 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:17:56
46 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:17:56
Most people appreciated his honesty when soon after arrival Moyes said he is on a learning curve. The curve has been painfully slow but his recent statements show it is bearing fruit.
Starting with his amazing revelation that "Goals win games", followed by the staggering insight, "We do not play entertaining football" and his latest, "Our problem is lack of confidence".
Starting with his amazing revelation that "Goals win games", followed by the staggering insight, "We do not play entertaining football" and his latest, "Our problem is lack of confidence".
Roman Sidey
47 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:04:47
47 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:04:47
Anyone who says the board forced Moyes to sell Arteta, I can understand why you believe that. I don't defend the board. I hate BK as much as anyone. However, if you read Moyes' quotes on the matter when it happened. Something along the lines of:
I didn't have to let him go, but I looked at him and could see he wanted to go.
- not exact words, but exactly the same meaning.
Now, I understand that Moyes may have had a responsibility to say this, the board forcing him to. Problem is, if you're going to fall on your sword for someone, you have to be willing to suffer the consequences. Those consequences being the fans blaming you for letting our best player go on the last day of the transfer window.
I didn't have to let him go, but I looked at him and could see he wanted to go.
- not exact words, but exactly the same meaning.
Now, I understand that Moyes may have had a responsibility to say this, the board forcing him to. Problem is, if you're going to fall on your sword for someone, you have to be willing to suffer the consequences. Those consequences being the fans blaming you for letting our best player go on the last day of the transfer window.
Ian Bennett
48 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:57:09
48 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:57:09
Ste 306 - Baines yes, felli maybe, Jags possibly, rest bench warmers at best.
Hibbo, Seamus and Ossie not a snowballs. Coleman still has to prove where his best position is, whilst Ossie and Hibbo are miles behind that level.
The squad is incorrectly set up. We have Baines, Heitinga, Jags, Felli, Rodwell and Barkley - probably what £100m+ of defensive talent, but the most difficult part of the game is scoring and we have Vellios, Saha, Victor and Straq. I suspect I have more money in my sofa than the value of those four.
Hibbo, Seamus and Ossie not a snowballs. Coleman still has to prove where his best position is, whilst Ossie and Hibbo are miles behind that level.
The squad is incorrectly set up. We have Baines, Heitinga, Jags, Felli, Rodwell and Barkley - probably what £100m+ of defensive talent, but the most difficult part of the game is scoring and we have Vellios, Saha, Victor and Straq. I suspect I have more money in my sofa than the value of those four.
Mark Riding
49 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:12:15
49 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:12:15
Ian, maybe your sofa could help out trust everton ?
Stephen Kenny
50 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:09:18
50 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:09:18
Ian,
It's about opinions but I can look at each of the top 6 sides and see players who I wouldn't swap for ours mentioned.
I don't think Hibbo etc. are that level just good players at this level.
Were not what we were, but we can still compete at this level and should beat most.
It's about opinions but I can look at each of the top 6 sides and see players who I wouldn't swap for ours mentioned.
I don't think Hibbo etc. are that level just good players at this level.
Were not what we were, but we can still compete at this level and should beat most.
Mark Riding
51 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:16:31
51 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:16:31
Do you not think Sir Alex wouldnt mind Tim Howard back by the way ?
Peter Laing
52 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:09:09
52 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:09:09
Why should Tony Marsh elaborate on the information that he has been given by his source, to blow the cover - don't think so. The fact that Barkley has been frozen out in my opinion is a total disgrace given the shite that Moyes has selected over the past 2-3 months.
Robbie Muldoon
53 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:45:14
53 Posted 10/01/2012 at 21:45:14
Here's the type of lad Ross Barkley is...
Over xmas he tweeted that he was watching the history of football and te one and only Dixie Dean spoke on it!
Who needs a talented blue nose who studies the history of football and gets excited at hearing an Everton legend speak.
#stickhiminthereserves
Over xmas he tweeted that he was watching the history of football and te one and only Dixie Dean spoke on it!
Who needs a talented blue nose who studies the history of football and gets excited at hearing an Everton legend speak.
#stickhiminthereserves
Ray Roche
54 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:15:07
54 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:15:07
Tony Marsh.
Thanks,Tony, for the insight. I think in that respect Moyes has more in common with Gordon Lee, another man who took a dim view of individual and expressive brilliance, hence his views on the great Duncan McKenzie.
Thanks,Tony, for the insight. I think in that respect Moyes has more in common with Gordon Lee, another man who took a dim view of individual and expressive brilliance, hence his views on the great Duncan McKenzie.
Stephen Kenny
55 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:23:34
55 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:23:34
Behave Mark. He's one of the worst keepers in this league. Elton John comes out quicker.
Ian Bennett
56 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:08:57
56 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:08:57
Roman - if you followed the e-mail chain that was leaked in November, Everton had to sell a player or two, whilst the situation was described as melt down.
The player was 29 hadn't had the best of seasons and was earning £3.5m. Moyes did have a choice, but not something he would have wanted to make.
The club coming out and saying the funds would be available just shows the contempt for the fans. The fans complain about the Arteta transfer funds which misses the point a little. Yak, Arteta, and Beckford were probably pulling in £150k per week = £7.2m a season in wage savings.
Everton have brought in £8m for Bellefield, upwards of £13m on transfer fees and slashed the wage bill by £7m plus (appreciate Drenthe, Strac probably offset by Yobo) yet Moyes is constrained to the loan market. Someone somewhere has pulled the funding or guarantor to the funding, wonder who that could be????
The player was 29 hadn't had the best of seasons and was earning £3.5m. Moyes did have a choice, but not something he would have wanted to make.
The club coming out and saying the funds would be available just shows the contempt for the fans. The fans complain about the Arteta transfer funds which misses the point a little. Yak, Arteta, and Beckford were probably pulling in £150k per week = £7.2m a season in wage savings.
Everton have brought in £8m for Bellefield, upwards of £13m on transfer fees and slashed the wage bill by £7m plus (appreciate Drenthe, Strac probably offset by Yobo) yet Moyes is constrained to the loan market. Someone somewhere has pulled the funding or guarantor to the funding, wonder who that could be????
Roman Sidey
57 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:08:34
57 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:08:34
And Moyes was given funds in 2005, relative to what was being spent at that time, and we'd smashed our record transfer 6 months earlier. Moyes decided that the players he needed to get into the CL were:
Phil Neville - was good at the time, and only dropped off recently.
Simon Davies - I could not believe that Moyes hyped this guy up.
Andy van der Meyde - We needed him, but Moyes didn't like him. Let him rot.
Per Kroldrup - rest my case.
Either Moyes had never watched the Champions League, or he'd never watched a Tottenham or Udinese game before that transfer window.
Phil Neville - was good at the time, and only dropped off recently.
Simon Davies - I could not believe that Moyes hyped this guy up.
Andy van der Meyde - We needed him, but Moyes didn't like him. Let him rot.
Per Kroldrup - rest my case.
Either Moyes had never watched the Champions League, or he'd never watched a Tottenham or Udinese game before that transfer window.
Robbie Muldoon
58 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:31:23
58 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:31:23
Yes Roman, he dithered over a top striker when we needed one as well. Was it 12 months later he captured AJ?
Roman Sidey
59 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:28:19
59 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:28:19
Ian, I appreciate and believe all you've said. I'll repeat though, if Moyes is going to claim responsibility for things - "I decid stays and who goes" "He told me he wanted to go so I let him" - then he has to accept criticism.
One thing I want out of Moyes before he goes - but I guess we'll have to wait for a tell all, dour as fuck auto-biography - is what in the hell happened between him and the Yak.
One thing I want out of Moyes before he goes - but I guess we'll have to wait for a tell all, dour as fuck auto-biography - is what in the hell happened between him and the Yak.
Chris Perry
60 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:28:23
60 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:28:23
Marshy is right. When I head back to Chester from the south, I meet up with Jamie Milligan and others, who still have connections at Everton.
Moyes is killing the likes of Ross, with regard to being an Evertonian, just like he drove Rooney and Lescot Out.
IMWH (IN MOYES WE HATE)
Moyes is killing the likes of Ross, with regard to being an Evertonian, just like he drove Rooney and Lescot Out.
IMWH (IN MOYES WE HATE)
Ian Bennett
61 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:27:36
61 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:27:36
Ste, it depends if you are looking at first choice top 6 or their squad players. The top 6 are looking for 1 or 2 players at most where they have a weakness.
Baines is at the top of his game. Coleman, Rodwell, Barkley, Drenthe have potential to make it and it does have a semblance of hope whilst the old guard fade away.
Baines is at the top of his game. Coleman, Rodwell, Barkley, Drenthe have potential to make it and it does have a semblance of hope whilst the old guard fade away.
Barry Rathbone
62 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:30:53
62 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:30:53
Part of the Moyes myth is based on the money/no money "miracles" I disagree, but it's opinion and it's certainly not the full story he's no wheeler dealer selling to create his own pot but what about his youth plan?
He has had 10 years of stability, only Utd and Arsenal have had this, the nirvana for managers isn't it? Bringing players through inhouse to replenish and hopefully improve independent of big money transfers, or in our case fend off financial apocalypse.
It should have been item 1 on the agenda, it hasn't happened in any meaningful way during the 10 years and is the crux of our demise.
This gift of time, is something only Moyes has had among his peers the other 2 send their second teams out to reach cup finals - not something I remember us doing.
Trevor Francis retort about Crewe's Dario Grady comes to mind when I read eulogies to Moyes:
"easiest job in football - no expectation or pressure".
He's got away with twiddling his thumbs Moyes, as I said in another thread not entirely his own fault, a half decent chairman would have been mentioning this years ago.
He has had 10 years of stability, only Utd and Arsenal have had this, the nirvana for managers isn't it? Bringing players through inhouse to replenish and hopefully improve independent of big money transfers, or in our case fend off financial apocalypse.
It should have been item 1 on the agenda, it hasn't happened in any meaningful way during the 10 years and is the crux of our demise.
This gift of time, is something only Moyes has had among his peers the other 2 send their second teams out to reach cup finals - not something I remember us doing.
Trevor Francis retort about Crewe's Dario Grady comes to mind when I read eulogies to Moyes:
"easiest job in football - no expectation or pressure".
He's got away with twiddling his thumbs Moyes, as I said in another thread not entirely his own fault, a half decent chairman would have been mentioning this years ago.
Ian Bennett
63 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:39:10
63 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:39:10
Roman, he isn't going to say any different either contractually or professionally. He has taken a bullet for the club and sold a player who was always going to be worth less, when the club needed a cash boost/cost cut. He could have sold Felli, Rodwell or Barkley and kept the star man. In 3 years time would that still look a great decision? Its a gamble that we stay in the league and can rebuild in the future.
Spurs came in with a bid of £250k for Phil Neville last year, and Arsenal tried it on with Jags. If he said that he had no control on rejecting offers, he risks all players wanting out for reduced fees.
I blame him for tactics, falling out with strikers and sigining some duds. I don't blame him for selling Arteta over the youngsters if the club was on the verge of going bust.
Spurs came in with a bid of £250k for Phil Neville last year, and Arsenal tried it on with Jags. If he said that he had no control on rejecting offers, he risks all players wanting out for reduced fees.
I blame him for tactics, falling out with strikers and sigining some duds. I don't blame him for selling Arteta over the youngsters if the club was on the verge of going bust.
Robbie Muldoon
64 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:48:53
64 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:48:53
I have no proof but I'd hazarda guess the Moyes Yakubu relationship deterioated after the harsh treatment of Yobo and a Moyes comment in the press regarding Yakubus age in Nigerian years.
Then the handling of the transfer negotiations to West Ham undoubtedly resulted in Yakubu being very unhappy and the following months getting the Moyes cold shoulder before the pathetic freebie move to Blackburn.
Either way we lost a top goalscorer and the chance of a substantial transfer fee.
Great management.
Then the handling of the transfer negotiations to West Ham undoubtedly resulted in Yakubu being very unhappy and the following months getting the Moyes cold shoulder before the pathetic freebie move to Blackburn.
Either way we lost a top goalscorer and the chance of a substantial transfer fee.
Great management.
Ian Bennett
65 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:50:05
65 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:50:05
Barry, youth football is not in great shape for anyone full stop.
United haven't brought them through in recent times, Chelsea have spent a fortune and are still no better, whilst Liverpool have had a barren time of it for a long time. Its not as if the league is awash with Fabregas ilk players.
United haven't brought them through in recent times, Chelsea have spent a fortune and are still no better, whilst Liverpool have had a barren time of it for a long time. Its not as if the league is awash with Fabregas ilk players.
Alasdair Mackay
66 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:50:37
66 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:50:37
Who out of our players would get in a "top 6 side" -
Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Drenthe, Fellaini, Rodwell without question. We also have Heitinga who played in a world cup final less than 2 years ago, Coleman would get close and Distin. An on-form Cahill would be hard to leave out, we have Barkley coming through (who they all want) and Donovan (although he's only on-loan) would get in as well for me.
So just the 12 players then!
Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Drenthe, Fellaini, Rodwell without question. We also have Heitinga who played in a world cup final less than 2 years ago, Coleman would get close and Distin. An on-form Cahill would be hard to leave out, we have Barkley coming through (who they all want) and Donovan (although he's only on-loan) would get in as well for me.
So just the 12 players then!
Ryan Holroyd
67 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:06:02
67 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:06:02
"I think everybody knows that the bank wanted the money. I think you all knew that' David Moyes talking about the Arteta cash.
You still think Moyes wanted to sell Arteta Jimmy?
You still think Moyes wanted to sell Arteta Jimmy?
Roman Sidey
68 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:58:52
68 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:58:52
See Ian, this is where it's odd how our positions can be so different. I've never really come on here complaining about the Arteta sale. On the day, it seemed okay business, and I assumed it was the board's decision.
What gripes me is how some of the Moyes defenders use the sale to wash his hands for him.
And yes, our youth setup has had wraps where it really doesn't deserve it.
What gripes me is how some of the Moyes defenders use the sale to wash his hands for him.
And yes, our youth setup has had wraps where it really doesn't deserve it.
Nick Entwistle
69 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:53:02
69 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:53:02
Barry, not entirely sure what point you're making, but not even Utd or Arsenal have achieved success by youth alone or come anywhere near it. Would you tarnish their managers with the same brush?
The youth set up gives us Hibbert, Osman, Anichebe, Rodwell, Barkley and McAleny at present... all scousers I think I'm right in saying... and add Vaughan, Rooney to the mix and teen signings of Vellios and Coleman etc so what's to complain about?
Any old excuse for bashing the manager right?
The youth set up gives us Hibbert, Osman, Anichebe, Rodwell, Barkley and McAleny at present... all scousers I think I'm right in saying... and add Vaughan, Rooney to the mix and teen signings of Vellios and Coleman etc so what's to complain about?
Any old excuse for bashing the manager right?
Ian Bennett
70 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:08:02
70 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:08:02
Roman, Everton are toothless. We are neat and tidy, can keep it fairly tight. But have no guile to move the ball quick enough. The team screams out for a goal scorer and and a playmaker. It was crap last season, before selling beckford, yak and arteta. Replacing with no one it was never going to improve the situation.
He needs the tools for the job.
He needs the tools for the job.
Simon Harris
71 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:58:30
71 Posted 10/01/2012 at 22:58:30
Moyes has made some duff signings but equally he's made some good ones, the summer of 05 being a perfect example when he secured Arteta and Neville and also bought the un-inspiring Davies, but I still can't forgive the lack of ambition shown by the club at that time.
It was THE opportunity of a generation for us to invest in top quality signings and progress to the top table and reap the rewards.
It's all history now, but I do wonder what could have been.
It was THE opportunity of a generation for us to invest in top quality signings and progress to the top table and reap the rewards.
It's all history now, but I do wonder what could have been.
Roman Sidey
72 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:22:35
72 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:22:35
I agree, Ian. The thing is, he still has some tools that he doesn't use properly. The players we have are better than Stoke, QPR, Bolton, Norwich, Villa, etc.
Nick, Seamus Coleman WAS NOT a "teen signing", and anyone who considers a 23-year-old footballer in this generation a youth is out of touch.
Nick, Seamus Coleman WAS NOT a "teen signing", and anyone who considers a 23-year-old footballer in this generation a youth is out of touch.
Matt Garen
73 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:22:55
73 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:22:55
Ian, absolutely agree. It's a strange old site this, what borders on fanatical hatred of a man who has out performed the entire premier league in terms of cash for 6 or 7 seasons. He is a victim of his own achievements. Without buying a player in 2.5 years people whinge we may only finish mid table? Who else you got doing that? Pulis? Possibly. Martinez? Doubtful. Holloway? Bruce? Dave fucking Jones?
What the fuck do yo expect? Look at the money villa, stoke, Sunderland have spent since summer 2009 and look what Everton have spent, and Everton will probably still finish above all 3 of them.
That's our league, along with Newcastle, Spurs, City, Chelsea or Man Utd. Anyone with even a basic understanding of the game is going to see that's where we are and until either Kenwright (a) gets a mad bastard to invest or (b) gets a mad bastard to buy, we need Moyes to keep us finishing where we invariably do, as dour and negative as that may be.
What the fuck do yo expect? Look at the money villa, stoke, Sunderland have spent since summer 2009 and look what Everton have spent, and Everton will probably still finish above all 3 of them.
That's our league, along with Newcastle, Spurs, City, Chelsea or Man Utd. Anyone with even a basic understanding of the game is going to see that's where we are and until either Kenwright (a) gets a mad bastard to invest or (b) gets a mad bastard to buy, we need Moyes to keep us finishing where we invariably do, as dour and negative as that may be.
Nick Entwistle
74 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:46:03
74 Posted 10/01/2012 at 23:46:03
Alright, he was 20 and three months. Glad we've sorted out that calamity.
Gavin Ramejkis
75 Posted 11/01/2012 at 00:27:44
75 Posted 11/01/2012 at 00:27:44
Ian #359 maybe not as prolific in the past but Man U have and are currently bringing kids through, the Man City cup game saw four of them named and three play; Danny Welbeck, Chris Smalling, Phil Jones and Jonny Evans on the bench. Wellbeck scored a pearler.
Roman Sidey
76 Posted 11/01/2012 at 00:35:55
76 Posted 11/01/2012 at 00:35:55
Nick, I hate to be pedantic, but people on here claim Coleman to be some revelation of Moyes'. All credit for his development should go to Sligo and Blackpool. His best games for Everton were his first few, and he's gone backward under Moyes.
Steve Sweeney
77 Posted 11/01/2012 at 00:47:40
77 Posted 11/01/2012 at 00:47:40
Gavin
Smalling and Jones cost near £30 plus at least
£6m a year in wages
Smalling and Jones cost near £30 plus at least
£6m a year in wages
Steve Sweeney
78 Posted 11/01/2012 at 01:14:43
78 Posted 11/01/2012 at 01:14:43
Should be £30m for thectwo
Peter Barry
79 Posted 11/01/2012 at 02:32:21
79 Posted 11/01/2012 at 02:32:21
IMWT says Mike Manchester # 208 well there is only one answer to that Mike and thats WMWB (With Moyes We're Bust).
Peter Barry
80 Posted 11/01/2012 at 03:12:04
80 Posted 11/01/2012 at 03:12:04
It has been quite obvious this season that there is a serious morale problem at Everton and this can only be down to the manager. His team selection, game plans and use of substitutes have all been predictable, pedantic and pathetic.
He is a busted flush and has been sussed out by the other Premier League managers. Yes, we have had a finance problem but that does not excuse Dour Davey's mismanagement of and lack of motivation or a coherent game plan for the players we do have.
Davey will never change; his Scottish dourness is bred in to him... the only solution is for him to leave before he destroys Everton.
He is a busted flush and has been sussed out by the other Premier League managers. Yes, we have had a finance problem but that does not excuse Dour Davey's mismanagement of and lack of motivation or a coherent game plan for the players we do have.
Davey will never change; his Scottish dourness is bred in to him... the only solution is for him to leave before he destroys Everton.
Dave Wilson
81 Posted 11/01/2012 at 08:29:57
81 Posted 11/01/2012 at 08:29:57
Stephen#306
I often get accused of wearing "scouse glasses" I often get slaughtered for bigging up the local boys, but even I would struggle to make a case for Ossie and Hibbo getting into the first team of one of the top six.
These clubs can buy the very best players in the world.
I can accept somebody making a case for Rodwell or Barkley, both have potential, but when people try top claim we have TWELVE players who can get into top six sides it goes along way to explaining to me why they think Moyes is doing such a bad job. Some of the players mentioned cant even get into our team ? Seamus Coleman top six ? are you sure ? ? ?
I hope /pray we can get swansongs out of Distin, Cahill, Neville, Saha etc but if they were with any of the top six clubs, they would be spending there Saturday afternoons entertaining corporate guests.
Anyway, its all about opinion, at least I now understand why you guys think Moyes is doing such a bad job
I often get accused of wearing "scouse glasses" I often get slaughtered for bigging up the local boys, but even I would struggle to make a case for Ossie and Hibbo getting into the first team of one of the top six.
These clubs can buy the very best players in the world.
I can accept somebody making a case for Rodwell or Barkley, both have potential, but when people try top claim we have TWELVE players who can get into top six sides it goes along way to explaining to me why they think Moyes is doing such a bad job. Some of the players mentioned cant even get into our team ? Seamus Coleman top six ? are you sure ? ? ?
I hope /pray we can get swansongs out of Distin, Cahill, Neville, Saha etc but if they were with any of the top six clubs, they would be spending there Saturday afternoons entertaining corporate guests.
Anyway, its all about opinion, at least I now understand why you guys think Moyes is doing such a bad job
Roman Sidey
82 Posted 11/01/2012 at 10:02:35
82 Posted 11/01/2012 at 10:02:35
Dave, wait for it... I'm with you on this one. I think Heitinga would do well at a big club, Baines could probably cut it with a good left winger in front, or as a left winger himself. Drenthe obviously, and Bily if he'd gone straight from Moscow to a big club (without his little holiday here). I reckon on form over the last season though, Distin would get a run - especially at Man United with their worries - but at 34 going on 35, he is now a squad member at any club going for titles.
That said, the squad we have is better than at least half of the rest of the league.
That said, the squad we have is better than at least half of the rest of the league.
Barry Rathbone
83 Posted 11/01/2012 at 10:25:10
83 Posted 11/01/2012 at 10:25:10
Nick Entwistle
Osman and Hibbo are the only youth players who've established themselves under Moyes in 10 years.
His youth plan is non existent the others aren't regulars with the debatable exception of Rodders.
Rooney via Moyes???
But even if I concede every name you toss in - 10 YEARS worth????
Best stick to the money argument eh?
Can blame anyone but Moyes then.
Osman and Hibbo are the only youth players who've established themselves under Moyes in 10 years.
His youth plan is non existent the others aren't regulars with the debatable exception of Rodders.
Rooney via Moyes???
But even if I concede every name you toss in - 10 YEARS worth????
Best stick to the money argument eh?
Can blame anyone but Moyes then.
David McDonnel
84 Posted 11/01/2012 at 12:00:57
84 Posted 11/01/2012 at 12:00:57
Just to go back to the top of this story.
Pep Guardiola has stated before the season started that he thinks this will be his last season with Barça and that he wants a 'challenge'!
He also stated that he would love to manage in the premier league.
At the time, I posted these statements on kipper and implored Bill to sign him up.
It's easy to look at Guardiola and say well he's had it easy (in fact, he says as much himself... hence he wants a challenge) and almost anybody could do what he has done given the resources etc...
But, he had never managed at the top level before he took over a talented but under-achieving team.
His only significant signing at first was Alves.
And perhaps his biggest and best gambles was to get rid of Ronny & Deco. Who had become bad influences in the dressing room and were well known in Barcelona for their love of the nightlife and all its trappings.
But, with his tactics and enthusiasm he turned Barça overnight into a team that will be remembered for at least this lifetime and probably many more.
This talented, but under-achieving team of Everton could certainly benefit from his input and what a challenge it would be for him...
Dreammmmmm, dream, dream, dream.
Pep Guardiola has stated before the season started that he thinks this will be his last season with Barça and that he wants a 'challenge'!
He also stated that he would love to manage in the premier league.
At the time, I posted these statements on kipper and implored Bill to sign him up.
It's easy to look at Guardiola and say well he's had it easy (in fact, he says as much himself... hence he wants a challenge) and almost anybody could do what he has done given the resources etc...
But, he had never managed at the top level before he took over a talented but under-achieving team.
His only significant signing at first was Alves.
And perhaps his biggest and best gambles was to get rid of Ronny & Deco. Who had become bad influences in the dressing room and were well known in Barcelona for their love of the nightlife and all its trappings.
But, with his tactics and enthusiasm he turned Barça overnight into a team that will be remembered for at least this lifetime and probably many more.
This talented, but under-achieving team of Everton could certainly benefit from his input and what a challenge it would be for him...
Dreammmmmm, dream, dream, dream.
Nick Entwistle
85 Posted 11/01/2012 at 12:16:45
85 Posted 11/01/2012 at 12:16:45
The Barca 5 Madrid 0 match was the most extraordinary exhibition of football I have ever seen. But to replicate it would mean Hibbert and Neville being able to pass up to five feet away. Fnar fnar.
Robbie Muldoon
86 Posted 11/01/2012 at 12:10:30
86 Posted 11/01/2012 at 12:10:30
The answer is the youth academy. We are only going to improve by blooding the youngsters of quality. So that means a midfield of Rodwell, Barkley, with Coleman at right back. With George Green hopefully brought through in the next 3 years.
There needs to be a footballing revolution within Everton, we already have a world class training facility in Finch Farm, we need to recruit promising coaches who can instill a footballing philosophy that justifies our club motto.
There needs to be a footballing revolution within Everton, we already have a world class training facility in Finch Farm, we need to recruit promising coaches who can instill a footballing philosophy that justifies our club motto.
Ian Bennett
87 Posted 11/01/2012 at 13:20:41
87 Posted 11/01/2012 at 13:20:41
Gavin 388 - Jones cost £18m and Smalling £11m, hardly YTS lads.
Evans looks a constant liability to me. Welbeck looks a decent prospect, but to be fair the since John O'shea who came and faded, United have had nothing.
Evans looks a constant liability to me. Welbeck looks a decent prospect, but to be fair the since John O'shea who came and faded, United have had nothing.
Stephen Kenny
88 Posted 11/01/2012 at 19:29:30
88 Posted 11/01/2012 at 19:29:30
Dave,
You misread my post. I was suggesting those three would get in most outside the top 6.
You misread my post. I was suggesting those three would get in most outside the top 6.
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1 Posted 10/01/2012 at 15:20:00
I want Kenwright and Moyes out, it's just not going to happen though.