Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Sinking Feeling
By Tony Marsh :: 23/01/2012
52 Comments (»Last)
Can anyone tell me a period in this once proud clubs history when things were as bad as they are now? Lets say since the 60s. I can't remember a time when the morale of the whole club was at such a low.Gordon Lee, Howard Kendall's 3rd go, and Walter Smith's reigns were all dire times for the supporters but nothing like they are now. As one pathetic display of anti-football follows another, there are still plenty amongst us in denial.
Bill Kenwright is defo in denial; so too is Moyes but the biggest concern is some of the fans are also in denial. What will it take for the worms to turn? Can we allow Bill Kenwright to carry on with his Costa Concordia approach to the club?
Bill may be sitting pretty on the bridge giving it large but, just like the shithouse captain of the doomed vessel did, he is yet again steering us perilously close to the rocks. The outcome will no doubt be as we have all feared for years now.
Bill Kenwright will eventually scuttle us below the waterline and God help us when it happens. Women and children first? I don't think so... Bill will be safe in his lifeboat long before the distress flares go up. Kenwright is the iceberg that will sink us in the end.
What can I say about the Muppet Yes-man Moyes? If this so-called 'man of integrity' had any integrity, he would expose BK for what he is and snap up one of those plum jobs he is always being touted for... Erm, remind me again, who was it knocking down the door to sign the Moyesiah? My memory isn't what it should be. Ah that's it. None have tried!!!
Moyes is the least gifted manager in the Premier League but the fucking luckiest. It's no wonder the players are looking worn out and bewildered trying to fathom out The Ginger One's tactics and gameplans.
We don't try to achieve anything on the pitch any more, we just try to survive by not getting beat. It's scandalous and makes me ill thinking some still defend it. Us the fans are being mugged every time we turn up at the ground.
I don't feel as if I support Everton any more; it's as though it's something I must try to cope with. It's a burden and must be the most soul-destroying joyless pastime known to man. Watching the shite Moyes serves up every week is not for the squeamish.
My main bone of contention now though is the section of our fans who have made Tim Cahill their new whipping boy... What the FUCK!!! After all this lad has given you over the years, you turn on him like this. It's so bleeding obvious why TC is struggling: he is being run into the ground by that Ginger Tosser Moyes.
Cahill is in his 30s now yet Moyes and these fans of ours expect him to defend, play in midfield, chase back, and close people down... Oh and get this: score goals as well... WTF planet are you lot from?
A 20 year old in his prime couldn't do what's asked of Tim Cahill. Moyes should be wrapping Tim in cotton wool and use him the same way SAF uses Paul Scholes. Impact sub coming on trying to nick the game.
Moyes is doing his best to ruin a true Everton legend and I hate him for it... But go ahead slaughter the lad. He's only being asked to play 90 mins every game out of position. If you can't grasp this then just ask The Yak what it's like playing in a role that suits... It aint rocket science.
Please try and see what these pair of snakes are doing to our club. BK and DM are as trustworthy as Ryan Giggs at a family sleep over... At least Giggs only lasted 8 years with his shenanigans we've had decades of these two gobshites.
Fulham in the Cup, when we lose, should be the end of it... but it won't be. As I have said before, even if we go down, Davey keeps his job. Imagine the fun to be had playing hoofball in the Championship at Barnsley... The mind boggles!
Reader Comments (52)
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Scott Campbell
2 Posted 26/01/2012 at 07:39:52
2 Posted 26/01/2012 at 07:39:52
"We don't try to achieve anything on the pitch any more, we just try to survive by not getting beat."
In that you have perfectly encapsulated David Moyes' system! It's just not football. It is the very definition of anti-football...
Dave Richman
3 Posted 26/01/2012 at 07:58:50
3 Posted 26/01/2012 at 07:58:50
"I don't feel as if I support Everton any more; it's as though it's something I must try to cope with. It's a burden and must be the most soul-destroying joyless pastime known to man. Watching the shite Moyes serves up every week is not for the squeamish."
Sums up my feelings in a nutshell........ Blue since 1971
Sums up my feelings in a nutshell........ Blue since 1971
Sam Hoare
4 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:07:00
4 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:07:00
I for one felt worse when we signed Ginola and Gazza. I remember being in the pub watching those two hasbeens chasing youngsters around the pitch while we loomed in the relegation zone season after season. Maybe i'm desensitised but for me that was much worse, least we have some decent players in our squad now even if they are underperforming.
James Ryan
5 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:03:51
5 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:03:51
Good Write! Its becoming more and more of a chore to go and watch the blues with the dross that is being served up by moyes. As for Kenwright, his supporters seem to think he saved this club! Bullshit! he has been on the board since 1994, during the johnson era! he has been slowly killing this club for years(along with his cronnies earl and woods) and if he is still here come september of this year we are certs for relagation( if not this season). What a mess!
Scott Campbell
6 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:31:10
6 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:31:10
Sam Hoare 878 - absolutely our squad is better now. It's not them underperforming that is isn't working. It's the backward system they have to play. A better manager would get more out of these players.
Sam Hoare
7 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:35:26
7 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:35:26
Scott, i have some sympathy with Moyes and if he is to leave he will go with my blessing.
No doubt things have gone stale this season, whether that is due to the players, the board, the manager or most likely a combination of all three is what fills these webpages daily!
No doubt things have gone stale this season, whether that is due to the players, the board, the manager or most likely a combination of all three is what fills these webpages daily!
Sam Hoare
8 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:38:19
8 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:38:19
Marshy, your rant about Cahill is fairly nonsensical. Defending, ocassional tracking back and scoring goals is what attacking midfielders do. In every team. 32 is hardly over the hill! Giggs is 38 and still does the same job for Utd.
Also comparing Moyes to Giggs is unfair and unmerited. I think Moyes has shown quite alot of integrity in his time here, not helped by his dubious bosses.
Also comparing Moyes to Giggs is unfair and unmerited. I think Moyes has shown quite alot of integrity in his time here, not helped by his dubious bosses.
Scott Campbell
9 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:44:07
9 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:44:07
I think Cahill is a spent force. It would be great to think we could use him as an impact sub but to be fair his wages are likely to be amongst the highest at the club and so I'd be looking to get him off the wage bill. No doubting his efforts though...
Paul Corbett
10 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:53:29
10 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:53:29
"I don't feel as if I support Everton any more; it's as though it's something I must try to cope with."
Pretty much sums up how I feel too
Pretty much sums up how I feel too
Peter Mills
11 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:48:49
11 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:48:49
Tony, I can't remember morale being so low.
The early 80s were pretty grim, with crowds of 12-16,000, 5-0 home derby defeats and a particularly awful defeat at Molineux during Christmas 83. However, there was a glimmer of light at that time, even though none of us expected it to burst into the super nova that it did.
The two "relegation days" of the 90s were desperate, but they did at least develop passion for survival.
Now? I loathe the way the Premiership is, with its hyperbole and obscenely rich participants, paid for by us. It's easy to dream of being taken over by Sheik Petro-dollar, but would I want Everton Football Club to be represented by the likes of Tevez? I'm going to the match out of family and friends inter- connectedness, harbouring dark thoughts that relegation might not be such a disaster and remembering how much I enjoyed a proper footie day out at Scunthorpe last year. That's how bad things have got.
The early 80s were pretty grim, with crowds of 12-16,000, 5-0 home derby defeats and a particularly awful defeat at Molineux during Christmas 83. However, there was a glimmer of light at that time, even though none of us expected it to burst into the super nova that it did.
The two "relegation days" of the 90s were desperate, but they did at least develop passion for survival.
Now? I loathe the way the Premiership is, with its hyperbole and obscenely rich participants, paid for by us. It's easy to dream of being taken over by Sheik Petro-dollar, but would I want Everton Football Club to be represented by the likes of Tevez? I'm going to the match out of family and friends inter- connectedness, harbouring dark thoughts that relegation might not be such a disaster and remembering how much I enjoyed a proper footie day out at Scunthorpe last year. That's how bad things have got.
Phil Bellis
12 Posted 26/01/2012 at 09:29:39
12 Posted 26/01/2012 at 09:29:39
Peter, I know what you mean - I go out of duty now; this season I've stopped looking forward to the match as, more and more, I can predict how it will pan out
I ask readers to look at the remaining fixtures, be honest, use your judgement and tot up our likely points haul
I think the predicted final tally(s) will leave most you very, very concened about staying up; personally I am worried and extremely angry at our situation
I ask readers to look at the remaining fixtures, be honest, use your judgement and tot up our likely points haul
I think the predicted final tally(s) will leave most you very, very concened about staying up; personally I am worried and extremely angry at our situation
Robbie Shields
13 Posted 26/01/2012 at 09:07:31
13 Posted 26/01/2012 at 09:07:31
Tony......... "We don't try to achieve anything on the pitch any more, we just try to survive by not getting beat. It's scandalous and makes me ill thinking some still defend it. Us the fans are being mugged every time we turn up at the ground."
Absolutely 100% spot on. I also agree with the your disdain of some supporters blaming the players for the dross on show instead of the man who seets the system, tactics, training regime and instructs them how to play. They are being asked to play to a shite, demoralizing, defense first, work ethic based, ant-football strategy, when most of them are the wrong side of 30. It doesn't take a fuckin brain surgeon to work out that you need young, eager, fit and supremely athletic players to do this. It may have been effective 5+ years ago when they were much younger (It was still shite dross mind BUT we did actually win a fair few games) but it's been becoming less and less effective as the squad got older and Moyes did nothing about it. The players must be sick to death of the Moyes work hard, defend, try and nick one mantra, I bloody well would be. It'll be interesting to see if any of the remaining Moyesiah brigade will be brave enough, stupid enough or delusional enough to post why you are obviously so wrong, and it's the entire squad's fault, not Moyes'!
Absolutely 100% spot on. I also agree with the your disdain of some supporters blaming the players for the dross on show instead of the man who seets the system, tactics, training regime and instructs them how to play. They are being asked to play to a shite, demoralizing, defense first, work ethic based, ant-football strategy, when most of them are the wrong side of 30. It doesn't take a fuckin brain surgeon to work out that you need young, eager, fit and supremely athletic players to do this. It may have been effective 5+ years ago when they were much younger (It was still shite dross mind BUT we did actually win a fair few games) but it's been becoming less and less effective as the squad got older and Moyes did nothing about it. The players must be sick to death of the Moyes work hard, defend, try and nick one mantra, I bloody well would be. It'll be interesting to see if any of the remaining Moyesiah brigade will be brave enough, stupid enough or delusional enough to post why you are obviously so wrong, and it's the entire squad's fault, not Moyes'!
Derek Thomas
14 Posted 26/01/2012 at 09:23:42
14 Posted 26/01/2012 at 09:23:42
2-3 seasons ago, maybe more, Marshy was getting slaughtered for writing stuff just like this.He was right then and is now, not much has changed it's just become more evidedent.
Dave Wilson
15 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:44:14
15 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:44:14
I`m annoyed with myself for even reading this, for a guy who constantly claims Evertonian standards are dropping you really are having a laugh.
Cahill has gotten into double figures a few times with his goals and he has scored a few against the big boys, he`s a bit of a modern day Andy King, he`s been a decent signing who`s always given his best. . but "LEGEND" ?
Legends stride through the Bayern defence to send Goodison into a state of mass hysteria.
Legends win things, they parade around GP with Trophies.
Legends have golden hair and in one sublime moment of magic are able to capture the imagination and hearts of dozen little scallys from Scottie Rd . . for the rest of our lives.
Legends sit on the ball.
Legends calm the frayed nerves of thousands of Evertonians at wembley by arrogantly plucking the ball from the air with one hand to break the hearts of Man United.
Cahill had his chance to become a legend, but when his moment came against Chelsea, it proved a step too far for him.
He doesnt deserve stick, he has been a fine servant. but he was thirty two last year.
In a long list of desperate attempts to pin blame on the manager this is possibly the most desperate to date.
"The Tiger wouldnt have aged if Rodgers, Lambert or Martinez were in charge"
Cahill has gotten into double figures a few times with his goals and he has scored a few against the big boys, he`s a bit of a modern day Andy King, he`s been a decent signing who`s always given his best. . but "LEGEND" ?
Legends stride through the Bayern defence to send Goodison into a state of mass hysteria.
Legends win things, they parade around GP with Trophies.
Legends have golden hair and in one sublime moment of magic are able to capture the imagination and hearts of dozen little scallys from Scottie Rd . . for the rest of our lives.
Legends sit on the ball.
Legends calm the frayed nerves of thousands of Evertonians at wembley by arrogantly plucking the ball from the air with one hand to break the hearts of Man United.
Cahill had his chance to become a legend, but when his moment came against Chelsea, it proved a step too far for him.
He doesnt deserve stick, he has been a fine servant. but he was thirty two last year.
In a long list of desperate attempts to pin blame on the manager this is possibly the most desperate to date.
"The Tiger wouldnt have aged if Rodgers, Lambert or Martinez were in charge"
Daniel A Johnson
16 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:21:24
16 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:21:24
"....as trust worthy as Ryan giggs at a family sleep over"
I'm still wiping coffee off my screen, hilarious!!!
I'm still wiping coffee off my screen, hilarious!!!
Tony J Williams
17 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:27:22
17 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:27:22
"It's no wonder the players are looking worn out and bewildered trying to fathom out The Ginger One's tactics and gameplans" - More fool those dozy bastards then because apparantly Moyes tactics haven't changed in 10 years....how much time do these fuckwits want to learn them?
Tony, for a person who had given up on football and Everton, you don't have go on about it and with vigour.
Tony, for a person who had given up on football and Everton, you don't have go on about it and with vigour.
Andy Crooks
18 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:32:39
18 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:32:39
I agree about Tim Cahill,Dave.A fine player now past his best..In my view his style of play does not lend itself to longevity or a different type of role. If the squad was strong enough he'd would have a few more years left as an impact sub at best..
I don't always agree with Tony's way of putting things but I have in the heat of a bad performance questioned Moyes's integrity.(a comment I later regretted and withdrew) Sooner or later ,though,Tony will be right.We have put ourselves in the position where we will require points from games we will not be favourites in. We have not been unlucky and I am more anxious than at any time for years.
I don't always agree with Tony's way of putting things but I have in the heat of a bad performance questioned Moyes's integrity.(a comment I later regretted and withdrew) Sooner or later ,though,Tony will be right.We have put ourselves in the position where we will require points from games we will not be favourites in. We have not been unlucky and I am more anxious than at any time for years.
Mike Allison
19 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:49:46
19 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:49:46
Tony I've never really agreed with you about Moyes', you seem to hate him way more than I've ever hated anyone. I also usually disagree with, or even take the piss out of, your ultra negative rants.
However, on this occasion, given that it contains a deserved defence of Tim Cahill I'm going to give you my agreement on that issue. I'm also beginning to feel the same way that you seemed to feel about five years ago, that everything is indeed shit and only getting shitter. I think that has become a justified position now, I still don't think it was then.
However, on this occasion, given that it contains a deserved defence of Tim Cahill I'm going to give you my agreement on that issue. I'm also beginning to feel the same way that you seemed to feel about five years ago, that everything is indeed shit and only getting shitter. I think that has become a justified position now, I still don't think it was then.
Gavin Ramejkis
20 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:55:43
20 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:55:43
Sam the trouble about the hasbeen days of Ginola and Gazza has come full circle in that our former stars that haven't been sold are turning into hasbeens before our very eyes.
Saha - needs to retire
Cahill - needs to be used less, sad but he just isn't up to being ran into the ground anymore
Neville - older by the day (not a true star btw)
Distin - reliable but how old is he now?
Hibbert - does an old right back job but again getting on
anyone else worth a mention has been sold and the youth isn't getting on the pitch
Saha - needs to retire
Cahill - needs to be used less, sad but he just isn't up to being ran into the ground anymore
Neville - older by the day (not a true star btw)
Distin - reliable but how old is he now?
Hibbert - does an old right back job but again getting on
anyone else worth a mention has been sold and the youth isn't getting on the pitch
Tommy Coleman
21 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:48:19
21 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:48:19
The only way fans will realise just how bad Kenwright and Moyes are is if we ever go into administration or are relegated. Then the penny will drop after it's far too late.
There is light at the end of the tunnel for me though. I can see Moyes going at the end of this year, if not, defo the end of next year. He might try and get another contract with us when no bigger club comes in for him, I hope not.
Kenwright I reckon has no more than 5 years, unless the Blue Union continues to gather momentum and forces him out sooner.
I just hope they are gone before it's too late.
There is light at the end of the tunnel for me though. I can see Moyes going at the end of this year, if not, defo the end of next year. He might try and get another contract with us when no bigger club comes in for him, I hope not.
Kenwright I reckon has no more than 5 years, unless the Blue Union continues to gather momentum and forces him out sooner.
I just hope they are gone before it's too late.
Danny Jones
22 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:45:43
22 Posted 26/01/2012 at 12:45:43
'I don't feel as if I support Everton any more', you wrote. I agree: I don't feel as if you support Everton either.
With the aid of a little perspective, I remember worse times than this but not necessarily times of lower morale. I think the low morale is perpetuated by modern communication methods like this site being used by negative people poisoning the Everton well.
I think the ?supporter? attitude is having a detrimental effect on the team.
With the aid of a little perspective, I remember worse times than this but not necessarily times of lower morale. I think the low morale is perpetuated by modern communication methods like this site being used by negative people poisoning the Everton well.
I think the ?supporter? attitude is having a detrimental effect on the team.
Noel Lynam
23 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:17:42
23 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:17:42
"Moyes is doing his best to ruin a true Everton legend and I hate him for it"
Tony, an alternative view might be that Moyes signed Cahill, built his team around playing to his strengths and therefore did his best to mould him into the "true Everton legend" you see him as.
Tony, an alternative view might be that Moyes signed Cahill, built his team around playing to his strengths and therefore did his best to mould him into the "true Everton legend" you see him as.
James McPherson
24 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:07:22
24 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:07:22
Tony, agree or disagree...you're box office lad! The Ryan Giggs comment is a classic!
I do not think Tony sets himself out to be a soothsayer and yes his criticisms hark back to days when in that context they were out of kilter with how many fans viewed things. This is I am glad to say a secular site, but to quote the bible..."a prophet is rarely welcomed in his own land".
The potential outcomes Tony has consistently stated have indeed come to 'fruition'. However is does not take a genius to work out that consistent sales of the better players replenished with fewer players of lower ability will lead to the situation we are in. So Tony, no prizes for that.
Where I do totally agree with Tony is the apathy that so grips the majority of the fan base. Reducing dramatically now, but still there in a big way. I struggle to see how the most reasoned and accomodating fan just does not get that the trend in which we are now entrenched will only lead to 2 outcomes - relegation and administration - or indeed both. What are these fans waiting for? The inevitable? It's like a car smash - those unlucky enough to have experiecned this will know what I mean when I say that those last few seconds where your car is carreering towards another vehicle/object and you are just paralysed with fear/impotency/dread before that horrible crunch of metal on metal rings in your ears.
I think in relative terms, we are in "those last few seconds". It's sickening. That's why there's no buyer, no 7th cavalry riding over the hill (to give it some Kenwrightesque hyperbole) - this club, our club can be picked up for a song in a matter on months as it goes into administration. Why spend over the odds now - no sane business person would do that. Just let the car crash happen! Sahme some of our fans have adopted that approach to. Beggars belief.
I do not think Tony sets himself out to be a soothsayer and yes his criticisms hark back to days when in that context they were out of kilter with how many fans viewed things. This is I am glad to say a secular site, but to quote the bible..."a prophet is rarely welcomed in his own land".
The potential outcomes Tony has consistently stated have indeed come to 'fruition'. However is does not take a genius to work out that consistent sales of the better players replenished with fewer players of lower ability will lead to the situation we are in. So Tony, no prizes for that.
Where I do totally agree with Tony is the apathy that so grips the majority of the fan base. Reducing dramatically now, but still there in a big way. I struggle to see how the most reasoned and accomodating fan just does not get that the trend in which we are now entrenched will only lead to 2 outcomes - relegation and administration - or indeed both. What are these fans waiting for? The inevitable? It's like a car smash - those unlucky enough to have experiecned this will know what I mean when I say that those last few seconds where your car is carreering towards another vehicle/object and you are just paralysed with fear/impotency/dread before that horrible crunch of metal on metal rings in your ears.
I think in relative terms, we are in "those last few seconds". It's sickening. That's why there's no buyer, no 7th cavalry riding over the hill (to give it some Kenwrightesque hyperbole) - this club, our club can be picked up for a song in a matter on months as it goes into administration. Why spend over the odds now - no sane business person would do that. Just let the car crash happen! Sahme some of our fans have adopted that approach to. Beggars belief.
Phil Bellis
25 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:18:01
25 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:18:01
Danny, take the points tally test and then evaluate how much worse were the worse times
Supporters' morale won't keep us up, only more points than 3 other teams
The Titanic passengers weren't to blame... were they?
Supporters' morale won't keep us up, only more points than 3 other teams
The Titanic passengers weren't to blame... were they?
Kevin Tully
26 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:08:36
26 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:08:36
If we do get through this season without going down, next season will be horrible.
Imagine the scenario, we scrape home this season, on the back of the worst football witnessed in 10 years. We have to sell any promising youngsters to keep the banks at bay- and bring in some more Man Utd rejects or reserves. Season tickets renewals at an all time low. Then the current regime roll up to take their place in the Directors box shouting " We are talking to interested parties."
Moyes then announces we have got injuries to our 1 fit striker and left back, so Hibbo is playing up top with a 6-4-0 formation. We get off to the worst start ever ( which would be fucking saying something)
God, I feel nauseous just thinking about it.
Imagine the scenario, we scrape home this season, on the back of the worst football witnessed in 10 years. We have to sell any promising youngsters to keep the banks at bay- and bring in some more Man Utd rejects or reserves. Season tickets renewals at an all time low. Then the current regime roll up to take their place in the Directors box shouting " We are talking to interested parties."
Moyes then announces we have got injuries to our 1 fit striker and left back, so Hibbo is playing up top with a 6-4-0 formation. We get off to the worst start ever ( which would be fucking saying something)
God, I feel nauseous just thinking about it.
Tony J Williams
27 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:21:05
27 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:21:05
"a prophet is rarely welcomed in his own land" - James, it's probably because he has been saying the same since about 2007.
I will go on the line and say that we will get relegated........ I have the rest of time for this to happen and I will turn around and give you the biggest "I told you so" when it happens.
Tony has been calling Moyes shite and a coward for over half a decade and when the team is stripped away and his tactics don't work anymore, he comes out and states, "I told you so"
easiest position ever, predict the worst and when it happens, scream, "I told you so", if it doesn't happen fall back on either, "It will soon" or "He must have listed to my advise" or perhaps pick a random factor and suggest that was the reaon why he is not right yet!
I'm all for constructive criticism but the lad has been singing the same tune for years and it's only now it looks like Moyes, Kenwrong and the players are beginning moving Everton to the brink.
I will go on the line and say that we will get relegated........ I have the rest of time for this to happen and I will turn around and give you the biggest "I told you so" when it happens.
Tony has been calling Moyes shite and a coward for over half a decade and when the team is stripped away and his tactics don't work anymore, he comes out and states, "I told you so"
easiest position ever, predict the worst and when it happens, scream, "I told you so", if it doesn't happen fall back on either, "It will soon" or "He must have listed to my advise" or perhaps pick a random factor and suggest that was the reaon why he is not right yet!
I'm all for constructive criticism but the lad has been singing the same tune for years and it's only now it looks like Moyes, Kenwrong and the players are beginning moving Everton to the brink.
Tony J Williams
28 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:28:43
28 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:28:43
The worrying thing Kevin, is that it is a very likely scenario.....
Lawrence Stolworthy
29 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:45:08
29 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:45:08
I think that's a good article. I am quite new to the forum so can't comment as to whether he has been saying the same thing for years but, if he has, then he's right. We have all seen this coming but Moyes, Kenwright and the Board seem to ignore the fact and some fans go along with that.
Danny (956)...you may well be right that forums such as this make it easier for people to express their anger but also their joy when we do well. The fact that we don't do well enough to actually post anything celebratory is not the fault of the fans or the forums.
It may well be that fans attitudes are now having an effect on the team and rightly so. Fans pay to watch matches and do so out of a mixture of loyalty and wanting to be entertained. That's why Everton have a good fanbase....our teams of the past entertained and so people wanted to watch them and support EFC. How many new fans are we acquiring now I wonder?
If the teams are unhappy with the fans attitude then tough. Are you saying that we should all have gone round saying "Gordon Brown is doing a wonderful job" just to avoid upsetting him before the last election? People have to make their thoughts known....otherwise what is the point having any?
Danny (956)...you may well be right that forums such as this make it easier for people to express their anger but also their joy when we do well. The fact that we don't do well enough to actually post anything celebratory is not the fault of the fans or the forums.
It may well be that fans attitudes are now having an effect on the team and rightly so. Fans pay to watch matches and do so out of a mixture of loyalty and wanting to be entertained. That's why Everton have a good fanbase....our teams of the past entertained and so people wanted to watch them and support EFC. How many new fans are we acquiring now I wonder?
If the teams are unhappy with the fans attitude then tough. Are you saying that we should all have gone round saying "Gordon Brown is doing a wonderful job" just to avoid upsetting him before the last election? People have to make their thoughts known....otherwise what is the point having any?
James McPherson
30 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:56:19
30 Posted 26/01/2012 at 13:56:19
Tony J Williams, I think I do say that no awards should be given to Tony for predicting the malaise and that his earlier criticisms of Moyes were not, in the context of that time, correct.
My main point was addressing the ongoing apathy that so blights us and props up Kenwright mind, now that the iceberg is in full view.
As for relegation, well if not this year, the trend points to next year for certain. This year will be touch and go. Fixture running order, often underestimated in my view, is key. We have tough fixtures coming up, which on form will have us in the bottom four (five if we are lucky). Given that sequence, attitude, fight, positivity and a Kevin Campbell style recruitment will be pivotal in keeping our nerve and steering clear. With none of the above present (as it now is) I think this year will be a tight scrape, with it being a case of three teams being marginally worse.
My main point was addressing the ongoing apathy that so blights us and props up Kenwright mind, now that the iceberg is in full view.
As for relegation, well if not this year, the trend points to next year for certain. This year will be touch and go. Fixture running order, often underestimated in my view, is key. We have tough fixtures coming up, which on form will have us in the bottom four (five if we are lucky). Given that sequence, attitude, fight, positivity and a Kevin Campbell style recruitment will be pivotal in keeping our nerve and steering clear. With none of the above present (as it now is) I think this year will be a tight scrape, with it being a case of three teams being marginally worse.
Tony J Williams
31 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:05:58
31 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:05:58
"whether he has been saying the same thing for years but, if he has, then he's right" - Only this year Lawrence, two years ago he was predicting doom and we finished 8th, it was the same story last year and amazing, God knows how!, we finshed higher in 7th. That was considered poor form, but the last time we finished 7th we embarrasingly brought out a DVD, such were our low standards.
So this year, after many years and after we see the asset stripping of not just our club but our players, his "predictions" are right. Forgive me if I don't feel he is up there with Nostradamus.
So this year, after many years and after we see the asset stripping of not just our club but our players, his "predictions" are right. Forgive me if I don't feel he is up there with Nostradamus.
Danny Jones
32 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:07:09
32 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:07:09
Lawrence (972)
I take your point that there is more anger than joy on the site because it is a reflection of the state of the club. However, I think positivity and negativity are contagious and can flow both ways.
As for the Gordon Brown metaphor, I say, ?be careful what you wish for?. You can ask people who have lost their jobs or been squeezed since the Tories got in whether change was a good thing or not. I also think that in a year?s time anyone with a social conscience will be of the same opinion.
Phil (965)
A bit simplistic but, ok, you?re not wrong.
I don?t understand the Titanic reference though. It doesn't fit.
I take your point that there is more anger than joy on the site because it is a reflection of the state of the club. However, I think positivity and negativity are contagious and can flow both ways.
As for the Gordon Brown metaphor, I say, ?be careful what you wish for?. You can ask people who have lost their jobs or been squeezed since the Tories got in whether change was a good thing or not. I also think that in a year?s time anyone with a social conscience will be of the same opinion.
Phil (965)
A bit simplistic but, ok, you?re not wrong.
I don?t understand the Titanic reference though. It doesn't fit.
Roman Sidey
33 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:25:42
33 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:25:42
Sam Hoare, I find you more agreeable with every post lately. You mention that 32 is not old, and I agree with you in most circumstances.
Cahill is an exception, though, and here's why. The lad is Australia's best player, and has been since about 2006, so he's been selected for almost every meaningful international for nearly six yers. Australia is almost the absolute antipode of England, and the travel between them is very taxing - think a few days of jet lag for any normal traveller, plus the effect on the body from sitting in a cramped plane for 20-odd hours. Add to this his injuries over the years, and, no jibe here, Moyes' well known pre-season regime which is supposedly one of the toughest in football (what I've heard). Plus he's Samoan (any Aussies will know what I'm talking about here).
I'm not saying that he is over the hill, or that Giggs isn't an absolute machine for going like he does at 53 years old. I'm just saying that Cahill's 32 is very different to many other 32 year old footballers.
Cahill is an exception, though, and here's why. The lad is Australia's best player, and has been since about 2006, so he's been selected for almost every meaningful international for nearly six yers. Australia is almost the absolute antipode of England, and the travel between them is very taxing - think a few days of jet lag for any normal traveller, plus the effect on the body from sitting in a cramped plane for 20-odd hours. Add to this his injuries over the years, and, no jibe here, Moyes' well known pre-season regime which is supposedly one of the toughest in football (what I've heard). Plus he's Samoan (any Aussies will know what I'm talking about here).
I'm not saying that he is over the hill, or that Giggs isn't an absolute machine for going like he does at 53 years old. I'm just saying that Cahill's 32 is very different to many other 32 year old footballers.
Barry Rathbone
34 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:26:07
34 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:26:07
Excellent post Tony I remember when all evertonians had your spark, most jacked it years ago - in another thread someone said evertonians wouldn't have stood for this rubbish moyes serves 20/30 yrs ago.
Thats the crux of it too many cackin their pants at the idea of change, and they dare to call moyes critics negative.
Thats the crux of it too many cackin their pants at the idea of change, and they dare to call moyes critics negative.
Lawrence Stolworthy
35 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:46:59
35 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:46:59
Danny (980)...you make a good point there. The only retort I can find is this though....
Let's imagine we got a knee jerk reaction out of the Board due to the attitude of fans of that DM decided that he had enough and left. A new manager comes in and the club are relegated. Would we blame the new manager? No, we would have to say that although things had suddenly appeared even worse than before, things have been brewing for a decade.
To keep the Gordon Brown analogy going a tad longer....I hate to say it but, even though things seem bad now under the Tories, should they actually be blamed when the rot actually set in a decade ago (although governments and financial institutions kept it quiet and continued to just trade in ever increasing toxic debts). I hope the analogy works there?
Let's imagine we got a knee jerk reaction out of the Board due to the attitude of fans of that DM decided that he had enough and left. A new manager comes in and the club are relegated. Would we blame the new manager? No, we would have to say that although things had suddenly appeared even worse than before, things have been brewing for a decade.
To keep the Gordon Brown analogy going a tad longer....I hate to say it but, even though things seem bad now under the Tories, should they actually be blamed when the rot actually set in a decade ago (although governments and financial institutions kept it quiet and continued to just trade in ever increasing toxic debts). I hope the analogy works there?
Lawrence Stolworthy
36 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:58:06
36 Posted 26/01/2012 at 14:58:06
Sorry Danny....I forgot to say that, although there might be an incorrect "negative" in there, I think that Phil (965) was saying that when a ship sinks you can't blame the passengers. Therefore, if the club goes down you can't blame the fans for their morale or lack of it.
Trevor Lynes
37 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:14:50
37 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:14:50
I actually supported EFC since 1948 so well remember the seasons in the 2nd Division.... that was pretty bad especially as Liverpool went down as we came up and under Shankly eclipsed all others once they gained promotion in 1961.
BUT....this is the first time to my knowledge that we have not been able to compete in the transfer market and in the present climate that bodes really badly for our future... If we do go down I cannot see us coming back up under the present administration and I am more frightened of the bleakness that is apparant amongst supporters which will inevitably affect the players.
I really cannot see any decent player wanting to come to Everton as we lack money, ambition and boardroom support.
DM is well paid for doing a 'punch bag' role as a buffer between the supporters and the board. How long he can take the punishment is unknown, but I am sure that his integrity must be severely tested.
I reckon that some sort of financial shenanigans have taken place over the past years ? otherwise, why are we in such financial distress with a regular 30,000 plus home gates and a top ten finish in most seasons??? Players' wages are blamed but we carry the smallest squad in the league and loan out loads of players each season. How did we manage BEFORE the loan system came into being???
I must admit that I have lost a lot of heart of late and hate watching the rubbish churned out by our team when teams in lower leagues play better football. Our once proud club has become a laughing stock and our motto is a joke!! But I'm not laughing !!!!!!!
BUT....this is the first time to my knowledge that we have not been able to compete in the transfer market and in the present climate that bodes really badly for our future... If we do go down I cannot see us coming back up under the present administration and I am more frightened of the bleakness that is apparant amongst supporters which will inevitably affect the players.
I really cannot see any decent player wanting to come to Everton as we lack money, ambition and boardroom support.
DM is well paid for doing a 'punch bag' role as a buffer between the supporters and the board. How long he can take the punishment is unknown, but I am sure that his integrity must be severely tested.
I reckon that some sort of financial shenanigans have taken place over the past years ? otherwise, why are we in such financial distress with a regular 30,000 plus home gates and a top ten finish in most seasons??? Players' wages are blamed but we carry the smallest squad in the league and loan out loads of players each season. How did we manage BEFORE the loan system came into being???
I must admit that I have lost a lot of heart of late and hate watching the rubbish churned out by our team when teams in lower leagues play better football. Our once proud club has become a laughing stock and our motto is a joke!! But I'm not laughing !!!!!!!
Stephen Kenny
38 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:23:01
38 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:23:01
I don't agree with all of this by any stretch and I think Cahill has been his own worst enemy at times BUT, I do agree the two of them are gradually stripping Evertonians of hope with their comments and actions.
Tommorow is a game we should win. A night game under the lights in a competition that Evertonians love like no other.
We should come out all guns blazing and get right into them from the off. If we do that 'Goodison Roar' article will be completely redundant, we just need somethign to get behind.
What's the bet's we don't get it?
Tommorow is a game we should win. A night game under the lights in a competition that Evertonians love like no other.
We should come out all guns blazing and get right into them from the off. If we do that 'Goodison Roar' article will be completely redundant, we just need somethign to get behind.
What's the bet's we don't get it?
Brian Waring
39 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:23:59
39 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:23:59
Whilst the Walter Smith days were a low, I didn't feel as dejected about the club as I do now.
Even my 12 yr old lad has lost all the excitement that he used to show, and has now started to go with his mates to watch Reading. The two lads who he goes with are season ticket holders with their dads, and he came home after the Hull game, and asked if I could get him a season ticket for Reading next season, sad days.
Even my 12 yr old lad has lost all the excitement that he used to show, and has now started to go with his mates to watch Reading. The two lads who he goes with are season ticket holders with their dads, and he came home after the Hull game, and asked if I could get him a season ticket for Reading next season, sad days.
Danny Jones
40 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:33:32
40 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:33:32
Stretching the analogy of Everton and national government even further, one can argue that the issues faced today have their root several administrations past.
Let?s not forget that EFC is not a democracy so the analogy only works to a point.
Still don?t get the Titanic one. Of course, you don?t blame the passengers. I would like to think that Everton supporters are more than just passengers.
Let?s not forget that EFC is not a democracy so the analogy only works to a point.
Still don?t get the Titanic one. Of course, you don?t blame the passengers. I would like to think that Everton supporters are more than just passengers.
Lawrence Stolworthy
41 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:44:01
41 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:44:01
You are right Danny.....perhaps if previous hierarchy had managed to make the most of the position that Kendall got us to in the 80's, things would have been different. Then again, if Heysel had not happened things would probably have been much better for the Blues.
I think that of all of the slightly "optimistic" thoughts on the forum your last point is perhaps the most poignant. You are damn right in that Evertonians have always been more than just passengers....a lot more. However, these days I fear that may no longer be true and we are just being swept along by the management on a journey that only seems to be heading one way. We are now just spectators waiting to see what will happen next. Sorry for sounding miserable but as the end of another transfer window beckons I don't find much to be excited about.
I think that of all of the slightly "optimistic" thoughts on the forum your last point is perhaps the most poignant. You are damn right in that Evertonians have always been more than just passengers....a lot more. However, these days I fear that may no longer be true and we are just being swept along by the management on a journey that only seems to be heading one way. We are now just spectators waiting to see what will happen next. Sorry for sounding miserable but as the end of another transfer window beckons I don't find much to be excited about.
Stephen Kenny
42 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:52:39
42 Posted 26/01/2012 at 15:52:39
Moyes is on the OS saying he doesn't know if Duffy is ready for the FA cup and may need to play Hibbo, WHY???
Big them up for once.
Big them up for once.
Phil Bellis
43 Posted 26/01/2012 at 16:55:22
43 Posted 26/01/2012 at 16:55:22
Quite right, Barry.
In the past I've seen the pitch littered with cushions, the mob with pitchforks and torches baying in front of the directors' box following better displays than the dross we've suffered this season.
To think, we used to sack managers of better-performing teams than this one.
In the past I've seen the pitch littered with cushions, the mob with pitchforks and torches baying in front of the directors' box following better displays than the dross we've suffered this season.
To think, we used to sack managers of better-performing teams than this one.
Ray Said
44 Posted 26/01/2012 at 19:11:18
44 Posted 26/01/2012 at 19:11:18
Tony M has taken dogs abuse in the past for writing this type of post. He has always been consistent and more supporters are getting the message as time goes on and morale sinks as fast as the teams league position.
The 'as trust worthy as Ryan giggs at a family sleepover' line is classic Marsh-welcome back Tony its good to hear you hit the nail on the head yet again.
The 'as trust worthy as Ryan giggs at a family sleepover' line is classic Marsh-welcome back Tony its good to hear you hit the nail on the head yet again.
Tony J Williams
45 Posted 27/01/2012 at 09:51:30
45 Posted 27/01/2012 at 09:51:30
Consistent with telling us how shite we are Ray, very easy stance to make and disappears when we have a purple patch.
Getting what message?, that he hates Moyes, we got that after his first vitiolic post.
All hail Marshy, the internet warrior....if only Moyes would listen to him etc etc
Getting what message?, that he hates Moyes, we got that after his first vitiolic post.
All hail Marshy, the internet warrior....if only Moyes would listen to him etc etc
Derek Thomas
46 Posted 27/01/2012 at 10:33:19
46 Posted 27/01/2012 at 10:33:19
Tony J 221: don't like the message, have a go at the messenger. How long ago was that Spurs game with the, even for Moyes, daft substitutions?? It started then.
Ray Said
47 Posted 27/01/2012 at 16:50:14
47 Posted 27/01/2012 at 16:50:14
Tony
When was the purple patch?
When was the purple patch?
Nelly Verdonghan
48 Posted 27/01/2012 at 16:45:34
48 Posted 27/01/2012 at 16:45:34
Tony Marsh.absolutely spot on mate....you have been for years but the apologists on here just wouldn't have it...now more and more are begining to see what you & I have seen for years....
During his tenure the Celsea (3 times) Man City & Spurs jobs (to name but 3) have all been vacant at some stage....NONE of them...yes that's NONE of them came after Moyes...Anybody who still belives that this man is a great manager and Everton are lucky to have him are kidding themselves big time.
During his tenure the Celsea (3 times) Man City & Spurs jobs (to name but 3) have all been vacant at some stage....NONE of them...yes that's NONE of them came after Moyes...Anybody who still belives that this man is a great manager and Everton are lucky to have him are kidding themselves big time.
Tony J Williams
49 Posted 27/01/2012 at 17:12:53
49 Posted 27/01/2012 at 17:12:53
2009 Ray
Ray Said
50 Posted 27/01/2012 at 17:27:23
50 Posted 27/01/2012 at 17:27:23
Tony.
Your post say Tony disappeared during the purple patch, which you say was in 2009. Here are three posts by Tony Marsh in 2009-the purple patch
More of the Same? by Tony Marsh : 22/12/2009 ... Derby Day Disaster. by Tony Marsh : 30/11/2009 ... Time To Get On Board? by Tony Marsh : 04/11/2009 .
Your post say Tony disappeared during the purple patch, which you say was in 2009. Here are three posts by Tony Marsh in 2009-the purple patch
More of the Same? by Tony Marsh : 22/12/2009 ... Derby Day Disaster. by Tony Marsh : 30/11/2009 ... Time To Get On Board? by Tony Marsh : 04/11/2009 .
Tony Marsh
51 Posted 27/01/2012 at 17:51:11
51 Posted 27/01/2012 at 17:51:11
Cheers Ray.
Tony J Williams @ 322 ? Way back when I expressed my concern for the club and the direction the football was going under Moyes, I could've easily been wrong and Moyes turned us into a real force that was pleasing on the eye... He didn't and what I predicted has come true.
The football's gotten worse year after year as the rot sets in... The club in general is being run into the ground by BK and Moyes has followed suit on the pitch. I could see the danger signs years back. Why can't you accept that as written and get over it?
Tony J Williams @ 322 ? Way back when I expressed my concern for the club and the direction the football was going under Moyes, I could've easily been wrong and Moyes turned us into a real force that was pleasing on the eye... He didn't and what I predicted has come true.
The football's gotten worse year after year as the rot sets in... The club in general is being run into the ground by BK and Moyes has followed suit on the pitch. I could see the danger signs years back. Why can't you accept that as written and get over it?
Robbie Shields
52 Posted 28/01/2012 at 12:09:21
52 Posted 28/01/2012 at 12:09:21
Because Tony, some people will never ever admit they've made a misjudgement, simple as that. Even if we got relegated they'd say it was Kenwrights fault and nothing to do with Moyes, Muppets of the highest order. And before anyone starts, I'm a supporter of the BU, want Kenwright out ASAP, and know he has destroyed the club over many many years.
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1 Posted 26/01/2012 at 07:26:10