Dire Straits

By Graeme   Beresford  ::  24/01/2012   114 Comments (»Last)

This season we have been dire, no two ways about it. From transfer funding, to poor performances to calls of boardroom liars, is there a light at the end of this tunnel? Let?s hope so. But for the now is it doing any of us any good to be calling for boardroom takeovers, protesting and being openly critical of the management of the team, more specifically David Moyes and his tactics? If this article lure?s you into a paradox of ?is he being positive or negative?? I apologise but that is where I am with Everton at the moment.

First of all, David Moyes. Now we all may be critical of his tactics, as I am one of those people who has often moaned at the 4-5-1 system and the constant last-ten-minute substitutions which are usually negative and add nothing to the feeling that we have to win the game. But, on the other hand, I do think a lot of Evertonians forget that David Moyes has done a hell of a lot for our club. He has saved us from relegation and took us to European conquests, cup finals etc. But at the moment something is not quite right. The Cahill tactic is obviously not working as he is not freely scoring as he used to. No midfield talent of Arteta or Pienaar providing us with creativity going forward.

My point with David Moyes is that, although he seems like he doesn?t have a clue at the moment, we forget that he brought these players in and formed a system which worked for a hell of a long time. Okay, at the moment we have sold alot of players, players have hit injury and age has caught up with some players and I agree that it is maybe time for a re-think in formation, tactics and even players but I don?t think people calling for Moyes to leave is the right answer. Look at how many managers we went through to get to a decent young manager like Moyes. I am now 26 years old and I can remember the days of Mike Walker, Joe Royle, Walter Smith and Howard Kendall and I can honestly say I don?t think Everton getting shut of Moyes and trying to find another stable manager at the moment is in the best interests of the club.

Instead of moaning and getting on Moyes?s back maybe we should try are best to remain positive. Again, I can understand fans? frustration at the rubbish football and the lack of goals but I do think everyone of us thinks either ourselves or another manager could do a better job, which isn?t the case. Who is going to be able to come in and manage our club if we got rid of Moyes and play the football which we all want to see? Mourinho? Alex Ferguson? We are living in a bit of a dream world here. We all seem to moan about tactics and Moyes not playing ?the kids? but we don?t see these players in training every day. Maybe we should trust Moyes a bit more. I saw one article which read something along the lines of ?Is Moyes doing a Rooney with Barkley?? and I thought, ?what trying to ease him into the team, trying to give him an opportunity to learn from the first team players, or worst comes to worst, maybe lining him up for a massive money move to another club?. Which at the moment, Rodwell, Barkley, £15-20 million+ I would take in a heartbeat. Just to go out and buy 3 or 4 players which will do a job for Everton.

In terms of performances, this is where a major reform of players, tactics and formation does definitely need to happen. I recall the old saying of ?if I know what he is going to play then so does every Premier League manager?. But what can he seriously do about this? We don?t have any wingers so 4-4-2 is out of the question. We don?t have wing backs really so any sort of 4-3-3 or even 5-3-2 is pointless and it?s not like we have Arteta and Pienaar nowadays so any sort of 4-4-2 midfield would have to consist of Fellaini, Rodwell/Gibson, Osman, all of whom are not attacking or creative enough to provide the forwards with assists. I honestly think the best thing Everton can do instead of us all moaning is give Moyes our full support and let?s see what happens over the summer. We need to sell to buy to let's sell somebody who is going to get us a lot of money and start again. I personally think Rooney being sold years ago was one of the best things to happen to Everton because it allowed us to go out and buy whom we needed to be a challenging team.

Now in terms of the whole boardroom fiasco, again I don?t think this is exactly helping the club. Remember how awful Liverpool?s performances were when the Hicks and Gillette saga was going on. I know it shouldn't filter down from the board room to the pitch but we forget that these people just kicking a ball around every week are human beings. We all know Kenwright has no money, we know that so why do we constantly go on about it? What really is the point? Again we seem to be living in a dreamland where we think we should have definitely been sold? Why should we have definitely been sold? Because of our history, you think some oil billionaire is going to care about our history? Let?s be honest, we are just another football club, albeit a good one compared to the hundreds below us but in terms of everything else we are mediocre. Stadium poor (and no a new stadium is not the answer ? Darlington, Coventry, Leicester ? it doesn?t guarantee anything), debt, etc.

I think many of you would rather we went in administration because we spent the £10 million we gained from Arteta. I personally, would rather the club stayed afloat and paid the banks what we owed them, which is most probably what has happened. Again, you people forget that Everton is a business and if you don?t pay what you owe people, you will go bust. So tell me what is the point in this constant battle going backwards and forwards of Everton fan?s asking ?where has the money gone?? 99.9% of us, me included, do not understand business to understand where the money has gone even if it was written out penny for penny in front of me. We forget that everything has to be paid for, everything. From the paint they use to make the goalposts nice and white, to the guy who paints them. I can?t understand the constant board room battering we think is acceptable because we can?t afford to go out and buy a player for a fortune. We have never been able to do this anyway. Unless we sell a talent.

I understand people?s arguments about how the board has never dipped their hand in their pockets to buy players but again with the state of the world?s finances, especially in Europe can you really blame them? Everyone should maybe take pride in the fact we have a board which keeps the club running in a stable condition because even if we were taken over, it could be a lot worse. Being taken over doesn?t guarantee anything. Again I?m certain a lot of you would rather see 6 months of apparent success than another 100 years of being a top flight club. Look at the takeovers in recent years which haven?t worked out, Liverpool, Blackburn and Portsmouth. Everyone seems to celebrate when the club is taken over without thinking of the actual implications of a takeover in a financially unstable climate. I would love Everton to be taken over but I understand why Bill Kenwright always hits us with the same answer... ?I?m looking for the correct buyer?. Too right he should because let?s see how many of us are dancing through the streets 6 months after we are bought out and we are told, ?darn, we have no money?. Blackburn style.

I love Everton, I support Everton and as I said earlier this article might seem stuck in a paradox between positivity and negativity. But at the moment that?s where I feel Everton are. We are stuck in a rut and we are struggling to get out. But really, is blaming anyone we can point the finger at helping us whatsoever? What if Moyes quit tomorrow and the board sold the club to someone dodgy whom we would then take to the streets to protest about. To be honest, I know which scenario I would rather see, and it certainly isn?t the latter.

Reader Comments (114)

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Colin Ryan
1 Posted 24/01/2012 at 19:48:24
Bill how did you find time to type that when looking for investment 24/7??
John Roberts
2 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:06:31
One can hope that Bill does sell up tomorrow!!
John Keating
3 Posted 24/01/2012 at 19:58:37
Graeme. Of course you are fully entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
My opinion is that you and likeminded people with your thoughts and reasoning contributes to the state our club finds itself in the position we are in.
If we all had your attitude we would not be having this debate we'd all be sitting on our arses watching the worlds gratest Evertonian and his cronies navigating us into oblivion.
I am correct in assuming the article is a sarcastic piss take ?
Andy Crooks
4 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:10:34
Hands up all Evertonians who would"rather we went into administration"
Joe McMahon
5 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:16:14
Bill, I presume you are happy to never see us win a trophy again? Just keep on clapping Kenwrights face on the big screen fella!
Graeme Beresford
6 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:14:26
John, I have no idea how you come to that conclusion. I over the years I am sure have contributed as much to Everton as I am sure you have. How is it a piss take? You said it mate, we are all entitled to our opinion. I think alot of Everton fans just don't understand. Tell me what you would have us do then? If Moyes and Kenwright both left tomorrow....

Andy, obviously nobody would want us to go into administration purposely, you missed my point. If you had to chose, as the Chairman of Everton, to either pay off abit of debt in order that the future amount of money owed will be less or use all of that 9million to buy other players, what would you do? To be honest if you say buy players then yes you are pretty much saying you would rather we went into administration.
Nick Waters
7 Posted 24/01/2012 at 19:54:53
Ker-ching!! (as jaw drops beyond physiological limits)

By the way..'European conquests' ?? 'Cup finals' (plural??) 'Don't blame them for not investing their own money because of the state of the world's finances' - which went belly-up in 2008, so what about the previous 8 years?

Your post Graeme reminds me of Lieutenant 'George', played by Hugh Laurie in the First World War Blackadder (Goes Forth) in its dim optimism and blind nostalgia. Probably a misquote but:-

George: ''Well chaps I'm gonna miss these years, we've had some great laughs and some damn great times"

Blackadder (Rowan Atkinson) "Yes, yes, .. can't think of any specific ones, mind"
Tommy Gibbons
8 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:27:10
Money for nothing!! Thats what Kenwright is expecting, when he and his board have put nothing in; in over 10 years!!
Peter Laing
9 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:47:24
Graeme you have the touch of a rapist with this piece fella.
James Newcombe
10 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:41:41
Are we in a stable condition? If we weren't selling off assets we would be running at a sizeable loss every season.

Take a walk by King's Dock and think about what might have been.

NTL, Kirkby, Fortress Sports Fund...

Your hero Bill has been on the board throughout the long decline of Everton FC.
Jimmy Sørheim
11 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:48:47
You defend Moyes all you want, but I and others have seen enough of him to know that he is not as good as the myth says he is.
We need to fresh up our coaching team and that includes Moyes.
Look at Martin and Aston Villa, huge difference, new life, new thoughts, new blood.
Ten years without winning anything is more than enough for me.
Moyes must leave this club.
If not he will take us down back to where we were before he came in.
Steve Guy
12 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:58:17
Two words for this one......Gob....Smacking
Kevin Elliott
13 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:58:20
Stars in your eyes Graham.
You've got a lot of learning to do son,and it looks like your'e going to learn the hard way.
Graham Mockford
14 Posted 24/01/2012 at 20:55:56
Very brave post on this site Graeme. In fact it put me in mind of one of my favourite 70s film. Hope you have your helmet on.

For the PC brigade it was the 70s so try and see the context.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-5lpCRxgiA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Anthony Jones
17 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:10:29
"99.9% of us, me included, do not understand business to understand where the money has gone even if it was written out penny for penny in front of me. We forget that everything has to be paid for, everything. From the paint they use to make the goalposts nice and white, to the guy who paints them."

Looking at the broad understanding of football club running costs you have (the posts and the painter!), I agree you will never understand where the money has gone.

I am afraid you do not speak for 99.9% of fans though.

I like your attitude Graeme, but I'm not willing to invest. I'm out.
Mike Manchester
18 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:03:51
I agree Graeme.

A couple of new faces in attack and we'll start climbing the table again.

well done
Phil Bellis
20 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:22:28
Jesus, Mike
Toddlers talk more sense
You could stick Messi and Van Persie up front in this team and we'd still do fuck all to bother the goals for column
Kevin Tully
21 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:21:03
If our dear leader was ANY foreign owner, do you think he would have one supporter in Goodison on his side?

Colin Wainwright
22 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:21:27
Graeme. Talking of Blackadder, have you got a pair of pants on your head and two pencils up your nose.

Christ almighty fella!

Got to be a wind-up. Surely.
Andrew James
23 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:17:37
Graeme

I am really p*ssed off with your article. I clicked on it with the reasonable expectation of reading all about the Sultans of Swing and I get this nonsense.

I mean come on...you don't refer to the guitar riff to Money for Nothing once!

I haven't been this disappointed since I clicked on that 'Status Quo' article last year...
Graeme Beresford
24 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:21:53
James in terms of debt yes i'd say we are in quite a stable condition compared to other clubs. Oh, you can obviously prove that Kirkby, Kings Dock, Fortress Fund all failed due to Bill, that's great, please share with us. We all would like to know why it was entirely Bills fault these all didn't work.

Anthony, that please don't nit-pick. Everything has to be paid for from the seeds the grass grows with, to the people responsible to grow it, to the equipment they need, to the clothes they wear, to the stadium you sit in, etc etc etc. Could go on all day.

Martin O'Neil is a bottler. As soon as times get tough he will be gone.
Mike Manchester
25 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:30:30
No Phil, you are the one talking gibberish if you think Messi and RVP would not score for Everton.
Colin Wainwright
26 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:33:10
''Martin O'Neil is a bottler. As soon as times get tough he will be gone.''

1. He wouldn't come here in a million fucking years.

2. As soon as times get tough??????
Jamie Barlow
27 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:29:45
Phil, you can't really come up with the line "Toddlers talk more sense" and then say "You could stick Messi and Van Persie up front in this team and we'd still do fuck all to bother the goals for column"

It makes your first line seem a little bit daft.
Shaun Brennan
28 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:36:37
Andrew 547,

Brilliant post.
Graeme Beresford
29 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:43:10
Colin, ask Leicester, Celtic and Villa fans I'm sure they will tell you. As soon as times get tough, he gets going.

I never said anything about him coming here.
Peter Bourke
30 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:33:23
I think Graeme wants the same as all Evertonians and he is probably as frustrated as each and everyone of us with the current state of affairs.
A lot of what you say Graeme is true and some is wishful thinking but i like the Positivity you are trying to generate. It can only be a good thing.
Of course it is easy for some to dismiss your article as rubbish but there are no quick easy fixes to our problems at the moment and i thank god they have nothing to do with running the club.
Steavey Buckley
31 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:29:49
Football finances have changed for the worse for Everton. There is nobody on the board of directors and the chairman who are prepared to put their hands in their pocket and pull out their cheque book and be benevolent. They will borrow money other people's money, which has to be paid back with interest. But no freebies. Even borrowed money is now limited. Everton's present finances are tight, not much leeway to buy much on the transfer market, unless Everton sell first.

Andrew James
32 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:57:25
'Money for Nothing'...

Sums up the Billy signing in one sentence.

Anthony Manning
33 Posted 24/01/2012 at 21:43:39
Deary me Graeme are you for real? Your obviously a committed blue and for that i respect you but as a earlier post said your gonna learn the hard way with that blind optimisim of yours.
Graeme Beresford
34 Posted 24/01/2012 at 22:13:25
Anthony, learn the hard way how exactly? I think everything I have said has been waiting for somebody to say. Everybody complain and moans when the fact is it could be a hell of a lot worse, but yeah it could be a hell of a lot better aswell. But, I think alot of fans are naive to how this all works. Its not a case of clicking fingers and going, wow we have 50 million to spend here. Its got to come from somewhere. Unless we sell we don't have money. And when we sell people moan that we sell. But the only other way is if somebody buys us. But even if we do get bought out it guarantees absolutely nothing. Ask Blackburn and Pompy fans.

I ask this to every person who's commented here. How would you rather be right now? Where Everton are or where Blackburn and Portsmouth are?
Michael Winstanley
35 Posted 24/01/2012 at 22:02:44
Graeme. An interesting article however we need money and we need it now. Bill has sold every asset we have, we lose money every year. Moyes has sold his creative players and as a result we play dire football. Our tactics are to defend at all costs. How many times recently have we had to watch the ball played up top and see two blue shirts with no one comeing to join in? It's relentless. The frustration of the fans is simply because this type of football isn't good enough. The lack of clarity surrounding our finances, the lack of AGM's, the lies that our spouted every year has reached a point with most of us. We want change because we want what's best for Everton Football Club.
Peter Mills
36 Posted 24/01/2012 at 22:18:32
Go easy on Graeme. To a degree I understand that sense of being "stuck in a paradox". In the almost 50 years I've been going to Goodison I've usually had a firm opinion as to what would be the best way forward for the club at times of crisis, but at present I see great dangers in every direction.
However, change is badly needed. I've been to every match at Goodison this season, but have just got home from watching Marine beat Hednesford Town and it was, by some margin, the most entertaining game I've seen since August.
Anthony Manning
37 Posted 24/01/2012 at 22:24:11
Sorry Graeme i just don`t share your opinion mate and by the looks of it most people on this thread don`t either, you make out that if we are sold we will end up like pompey, why not Chelsea or City or even liverpool? Most people will agree Kenwright is without doubt the worst owner in the clubs history, Moyes`s negativity had us defending a corner with all 11 men in the box against TAMWORTH, crowds are as low as 29000 think i`d rather take my chances mate.
Graeme Beresford
38 Posted 24/01/2012 at 22:28:40
Thank you Michael. It wasn't written to provoke an argument with any of my Blue friends but just to see things from the other perspective.

I understand the frustration Michael. I too have watched us this season and thought 'what the hell is this'. But until we, as you say yourself, get some sort of money, we wont be able to change. But we know that Kenwright and the board have no money so what good is it doing constantly asking to see financial reports etc.

Honesty isn't around in any sort of business. So why is it different in regard to Everton. Would you want to attend an AGM if you knew all you were going to get was a shedload of abuse and questions that are probably unanswerable.

I too want to see change within Everton. But I also want to see some change within us as fans. The way we are openly critical of every single thing. We have been through this before, that's what annoys me. We have never had alot of money yet when performances have a turn for the worst the easy option is to always blame the manager. Yet this rarely changes much. I would personally like to see some kids getting a chance and a change of formation. But again, I don't see these players all day and I am not a football manager, what do I know right?

Just because I can take Barcelona to the final of the Champs Leage on football manager doesn't mean I would know what would be the best formation and who would be the best players. Again, if Moyes was to play some kids against Fulham and we got beat say 4-0 5-0 all we would get would be complaints about he he played. He can't win really can he.
Graeme Beresford
39 Posted 24/01/2012 at 22:44:43
Anthony, you make a very good point. But remember what Liverpool went through to get to where they are.
Anthony Manning
40 Posted 24/01/2012 at 22:52:12
I remember their fans group, Spirit of Shankly, going on protest marches. I also remember banners on the kop calling for their owners to go... it worked too. The BU are using similar tactics to try and raise aweness to our plight yet are critisized by some...

As I write this, Sky Sports are reporting that Reading have been bought by a wealthy Russian, it`s just said they tried to buy Everton in 2004 but it collapsed ? he won`t reveal why but said it`s between him and BK!!!
Graeme Beresford
41 Posted 24/01/2012 at 23:12:39
Is this Reading who have a fairly new stadium, already had a wealthy owner and whom are currently in division 1?
Peter Mills
42 Posted 24/01/2012 at 23:19:53
Put the spade away Graeme!
Anthony Manning
43 Posted 24/01/2012 at 23:16:13
Yes, or Everton the 4th most succesful club in England with a huge fanbase and tradition, a club thats been in the top flight for more seasons than ANY other club, with an old ground but one that holds 15000 more seats than Readings, oh yes i forgot Blue Bill wants £150m to go. Graeme i really wish i had just an ounce of your optimisim but years of failiure and lies from Kenwright have left my tank empty.
Paul Lally
44 Posted 24/01/2012 at 23:31:00
Graeme 587#
To save Colin Fitzpatrick time I have copied and pasted one of his responses he posted on 'The BU response' thread - (Hope okay Colin).

'Let?s say Newco is prepared to invest in a phased redevelopment of Goodison Park which the city council is prepared to support and facilitate. [Yes they really are because, unlike the useless incumbents, some fans got off their arses and actually did something to get the club out of the mess they?re in]

Newco is also prepared to pay off £27m of debt, which immediately releases approx £3.5m. They decide it?s not cost effective to pay off the remainder of the £30m prudential loan as the penalty charge would mean the true debt of the club would be in the region of £67m.

To address the chronic underinvestment in the squad, Newco commit to provide a transfer budget over a three year period comprising of at least £30m in the first, £20m in the second and £10m in the third.

Newco bring with them new sponsors, Everton?s new domestic shirt sponsors, Qatar Petroleum, pay £125m for a 5 year deal and European sponsors, Al Jazeera, pay £50m over a similar period.

The first phase of the infrastructure improvement begins; a £35m redevelopment of the Park End which includes a second tier, corporate boxes, a hotel and conference centre all encompassed in an innovative design that allows for 365 a year operation and a unique matchday experience to Evertonians seated in this stand. The prudential don?t object as it is Everton who own the development unlike the proposed Williams Tarr development which was akin to building an extension on a council house.

Outsourcing contracts are dispensed with and professional managers from the retail and catering industries are employed to oversee the increase in profits from a club on its way up.

Better players and evidence that the club is actually going somewhere brings back the crowds and further improves the revenue streams.

Over the next three years the second, third and final stages of the redevelopment are completed through a combination of increased cashflows, debt and equity.

After five years Newco are the proud owners of a high flying Premiership team who not only have a great history but have a great future. They?ve ?invested? £200m in the running of the club, the infrastructure and the squad. They now have a stadium valued at £200m, a competitive squad and a thriving business with a positive balance sheet.

They sell the club for £350m to an Australian plutonium billionaire who decided that he?d buy it after bumping into Peter Fearon in a bar in the outback who convinced him that after St Bill had laid the foundations Newco had come along and finished off his vision.

Of course this is all fantasy, I?m not saying this is going to happen or that this is the best way to rectify the problems but??? http://www.soccerissue.com/2012/01/23/is-the-qatari-money-on-its-way-to-england/

The one thing that will definitely stop things happening is the asking price for the shares Bill represents, £110m. Nobody in their right mind would pay that for the privilege of pumping in even more money to rectify the problems they failed to address in over twelve years of ownership. New owners will need to see a way to obtain a ROI.

The problem for everyone is obvious; it?s the people who have wiped over £55m from the balance sheet of the club whilst the net debt has more than doubled to £47m [?], it?s the people who have disposed of all the assets or mortgaged what is left, it?s the people who have wasted millions on abortive stadium relocation schemes and have presided over accumulative losses of more than £54m which were only limited through the sale of inherited assets such as Rooney, Dunne, Jeffers and Bellefield - and now they want a reward for this incompetence? Laughable'.

See you Friday.
COYB
Alex Robinson
45 Posted 24/01/2012 at 23:30:49
We're going through a rough patch - no doubt about it. But ripping the rear end out of the team we supposedly love isn't gonna solve anything.

Graeme - kudos first of all for writing this. An article that stirs a lot of emotions about the current state of our beloved Everton FC (including my own). Mistakes have obviously been made, both at board and management level, but what gets my goat is that a lot of people who comment on this site seem to WANT Everton to do badly/get walloped by Liverpool/get relegated, just to prove their point, at the expense of the team we all support. I think someone put on a previous tread what the dictionary definition of a "supporter" was, and by my reckoning, a lot of people writing on this site are coming up VERY short.

Yes, we have the right to complain, and thank God for those guys who fought in WWII that gave us that right. But calling Moyes a shit manager and then saying nothing to try and improve the situation isn't gonna help things. We're not quite down the Blackburn route i.e. boo-ing when we score, but I don't think we're far off.

Which brings me back to the original article. One response to being in Dire Straits said we had Money for Nothing. I say, it's time to stick together and show the world what being an Evertonian is all about. It's time to be "Brothers in Arms..."
Michael Winstanley
46 Posted 25/01/2012 at 00:02:13
The need for change could be expressed as a need for a new direction. We/Bill/Moyes gambled on Champions League and got very close. Now and for the last few seasons we have been paying for that and I don't see the situation changing unless we get new investment (I sound like somebody I don't like!).

The style of our football is now aimless. The criticism levelled at Moyes is over the top at times, I agree with some posters that he can't win either way. However, he picks the team, the tactics and is ulimately responsible for the performances of the team. Most of us (if not all) could tell you what team he'll pick and how we'll play week after week.

I like everyone else, hopes every week that we'll turn in a performance that makes us proud and gives us something to hold onto until the next weekend. That's what footballs about.

At the moment we're not given that, instead we're predictable and pedestrian and it's simply not good enough.
Mark Stone
47 Posted 25/01/2012 at 00:13:33
Jimmy #527 what has gone on at Aston Villa? Have they got rid of McLeish???
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
48 Posted 25/01/2012 at 00:25:20
Alex Robinson (#600): ".. a lot of people who comment on this site seem to WANT Everton to do badly/get walloped by Liverpool/get relegated, just to prove their point,"

That's not the impression I get. Far from it. I hope you have a lot of pertinent examples to back up this claim or are prepared to admit that you are actually making things up.
Graeme Beresford
49 Posted 25/01/2012 at 00:24:17
Jesus Paul/Colin now that is all abit Football Manager that. The Stadium fiasco's have had nothing to do with kenwright have they really? They have had to do with the Government knocking back Kirkby. And King's Dock just became to darn expensive. Okay they were both failures and we lost a hell of alot of money but if things would of went a different way we might be sitting in a nice new stadium by now. So at least we had a go on that point. But as I said before I've never understood us building a stadium anyway when we can't fill a 40 thousand seater stadium nevermind a 50 or 60 but hey. Sunderland, Derby, etc, all built nice new stadiums and ain't exactly lighting up Europe are they.

Anthony mate what I'm saying to you is. Wouldn't you ask for 150million to go? No obviously you would walk away for free. Lets see if you say that when/if you own your own business in the future, you have a wife and kids and its time for you to retire. Mate, I would want 150m for Everton. The land alone that Goodison sits on is probably worth a fortune. Not to mention everything else.

Nobody has yet answered my question though. Would you rather be Everton or Blackburn at the moment?
David Sheen
50 Posted 25/01/2012 at 00:18:57
Yes we are in Dire Straits, and Bill wants money for nothing. He might aswell install microwave ovens, so us Evertonians can bang on the bongos like chimpanzees.
Anto Byrne
51 Posted 25/01/2012 at 01:10:33
Cardiff City into the league cup final and could well be playing in Europe next season.
How the fuck do a championship club manage that? Luck of the draw? Decided they wanted it and went for it? They may not be the best team in world but at least they had a go. We dont see that at EFC anymore, a return to the dogs of war maybe, a bit of mongrel, in your face, who gives a fuck attitude lets have a go and some nice football on the side please.
Mike Manchester
52 Posted 25/01/2012 at 01:09:56
So yes the club is in Dire Straits, I think we all agree that there must be better "Communiqe"(tions) between the board and the fans. Bill K must realise while he's "making movies" there are "brothers in arms""on every street". We need "sultans" with "love over gold" to give us "money for nothing" but it all seems "so far away", guess its just the "walk of life".

Sorry, couldn't resist
Jamie Sweet
53 Posted 25/01/2012 at 00:54:56
Alex Robinson (#600): ".. a lot of people who comment on this site seem to WANT Everton to do badly/get walloped by Liverpool/get relegated, just to prove their point,"

Biggest crock of shit I've ever heard.

I would truely love it, love it I tell you, if David Moyes made me eat every negative word I've ever written about him and turn things around.

Despite us all on here having opposing views on pretty much everything, (which lets face it, makes life much more interesting) - we all share one common desire to see Everton win every game they play. To suggest otherwise is simply rediculous.

However, I support Everton FC, I do not support David Moyes. As a supporter of Everton, I want what is best for the club, and at the moment, I don't think Moyes is doing the very best he possibly could. I am more than entitled to voice my dissatisfaction toward him.

Just to get this straight though, you think that to sit back and clap and cheer and watch this once great club go down the swanny is what a true supporter should be doing right now?

It has been frustrating the past couple of seasons to see how easily some people settle for mediocrity. But to show support towards some of the worst football Goodison Park has ever witnessed, I believe, is far worse and far more disrepectful to this once great club and it's history and tradition,than those people who are crying out for things to change and improve.
Derek Thomas
54 Posted 25/01/2012 at 01:45:45
Everton writers on their laptop screens, they knew all about their history.

Saha ( Bily,Neville ) doesn't mind if he doesnt make 'the scene' he's got a day time job, he doin alright, drivin his black Ferrari on a friday nite, with the ( other ) sultans of Bling
Martin Mason
55 Posted 25/01/2012 at 02:35:20
Graeme as a supporter I completely agree with you.
John Daley
56 Posted 25/01/2012 at 01:21:14
"I think many of you would rather we went in administration"

I thought that was a ridiculous statement... Then I read this:

"Everyone should maybe take pride in the fact we have a board which keeps the club running in a stable condition".

I don't know which is more unbelievable, the fact that you think any Evertonian could possibly take pride in the current custodians of the club, or the fact you consider the clubs financial footing to be stable. It's like saying a guy who's just been fucking eviscerated is in a 'stable condition'...."it's alright, it's just a flesh wound"... and then his guts drop out all over the floor.

Gotta love this bit though: "99.9% of us, me included, do not understand business to understand where the money has gone "

Don't be too hard on yourself, Bill doesn't know where it's gone either. At least you got to the bottom of those pesky 'other operating costs'. It's all gone on painting the goalposts white.

"The Stadium fiasco's have had nothing to do with kenwright have they really?"

He's the chairman for god's sake. How can you possibly attempt to absolve him of any responsibility?

"..and no a new stadium is not the answer ? Darlington, Coventry, Leicester ? it doesn?t guarantee anything),"

Quite a definitive statement there. You obviously know more about business than you earlier claimed.

"We need to sell to buy to let's sell somebody who is going to get us a lot of money and start again"

Who's going to bring in this massive fee to enable the team to be rebuilt? Other clubs are only too aware that we are up financial shit creek and tailor their bids accordingly. No player is going to bring in a 'lot of money', certainly not enough to fund an influx of new blood. That's all hypothetical though because the likelihood is that the manager wouldn't even have time to start salivating at the prospect of a transfer budget before it was siphoned off by the bank to reduce debt.

"We are stuck in a rut and we are struggling to get out. But really, is blaming anyone we can point the finger at helping us whatsoever?"

No, but blaming those who are responsible is at least a start.
Peter Barry
57 Posted 25/01/2012 at 03:22:49
We are heading in to territory where only a 'new manager bounce' will b able to save us. Lets hope they don't leave it too late to get one in. BTW why do all you Moyesophiles think that no decent manager would snap up his £67,000 a week job.
Peter Barry
58 Posted 25/01/2012 at 03:32:28
Alex Robinson (#600) yet another fool who equates criticism of the Disastrous Dire Dross Dour Davey serves up every week with lack of love for Everton. Wake up Alex is BECAUSE we love Everton so much that we want this Tactics Devoid Dour Jock as far away from it as possible.
Peter Barry
59 Posted 25/01/2012 at 03:37:43
I'm just waiting for the clowns who will be claiming Daveys brilliance in NOT selling any of our promising youngsters this transfer window. You just know it coming.
Eric Myles
60 Posted 25/01/2012 at 03:56:50
Graeme, to answer a few of your comments as I scanned through the above posts.

?Oh, you can obviously prove that Kirkby, Kings Dock, Fortress Sports Fund all failed due to Bill, that's great, please share with us. We all would like to know why it was entirely Bill's fault these all didn't work.?

In the words of the great John McEnroe, "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!"

?But even if we do get bought out it guarantees absolutely nothing. Ask Blackburn and Pompy fans.?

Or ask Chelsea, United and City fans.

?I also want to see some change within us as fans. The way we are openly critical of every single thing.?

So you want us to say the board is doing a wonderful job ruining the Club? The football is fantastic and really entertaining? How is that going to improve anything?

?The Stadium fiascos have had nothing to do with Kenwright have they really? They have had to do with the Government knocking back Kirkby. And King's Dock just became to darned expensive.?

Why did Kenwright and the board pursue Kirkby when it was against ALL local government planning regulations and they were WARNED that it was and that it would fail? But the money for King?s Dock was ringfenced wasn?t it? At least Kenwright told us it was. And wasn?t it Kenwright who knocked back the offer from his best mate to provide the funding for it?
Scott Campbell
61 Posted 25/01/2012 at 06:26:06
I want my M T Veeeeeee... Hang on, all the clocks are striking 13 again, the Kenwright thought police are back with their daily dose of doublespeak... *repeatedly bangs head on desk* "My point with David Moyes is that, although he seems like he doesn?t have a clue at the moment, we forget that he brought these players in and formed a system which worked for a hell of a long time..." that's like saying, we'll continue to let this pensioner drive on the roads, in spite of the fact that he's going blind, because he was a perfectly fine driver for a long time... then he knocks a cyclist over! So you'd take 15 or 20M for Rodwell/Barkley in a heartbeat to go out and buy a few players?! Right? Yeah, okay, that makes sense. Just like the 10M from the Arteta deal which was going to be used to buy some players... Oh, hang on... Tell you what, we'll sell Barkley for 20M, Philip Green can open a new Topshop store somewhere and we can give McFadden a new deal... Cool Was this an extract from Paul McKenna's "I Can Think Everton Successful"??? Or is it a piss take? One of the two... The positivity I took from this post was that I started off angry but then as I read on the hilarity was such that my blood pressure dropped! Wow. It seems laughter is the best medicine. Maybe we should all give it a go on Friday night, instead of getting angry at the same tactics which don't work and the same system which hasn't worked for years and the same players who can't score, we could all stay positive! That'll work. Then when Fulham open the scoring we could all laugh, thus releasing endorphins to make ourselves feel better. Then we could give Bill three cheers... Yipee Graeme, seriously, you should check out "Success Through a Positive Mental Attitude" by W Clement Stone and Napoleon Hill. Give it a read and stick to it, because you obviously know nothing about football, friendo. Let me ask you this Graeme, what will it take for you to conclude that perhaps Moyes should do one? Championship football? Or will you still be asking us to remain positive when we're set for an away tie at Doncaster? Likewise Kenwright. Will it be a winding up order that makes you finally think perhaps Blue Bill is not the answer!?
Noel Lynam
62 Posted 25/01/2012 at 08:03:20
Michael Kenrick @ 603,

The words Tony, Marsh, Arsenal, five, nil, home and defeat come to mind as one example.

Alex has generalised/exaggerated but I can see where he is coming from.
Andrew Fair
63 Posted 25/01/2012 at 08:21:01
There are so many Dicks who are constantly using Dour, Devoid, blah blah blah Dave illiteration comments to slag off our manager. Instead of bitching at the man who has given us the best years since the 80's, it might be worth getting behind him as well as the team. There is no one else who can do a better job than Moyes in our current situation, and i challenge anyone to give me names - with proof that they will. Martinez - no, taking a bad wigan team down. Rodgers-No, having a honeymoon period with Swansea but still struggling for goals. O'neill - No, couldnt get past Moyes when he had cash at Villa. Hughes- Bottles it when times get hard. Come on people prove me wrong!
Jamie Sweet
64 Posted 25/01/2012 at 09:20:16
Andrew Fair 644, have you watched us this season? I think the list would be shorter if you asked who could do worse than Moyes this season. We truely have sullied the good name of shite!
Sam Hoare
65 Posted 25/01/2012 at 09:41:44
I think the time for a managerial change is perhaps approaching, not because i think Moyes is a bad manager but because i think the love affair is clearly at an end from both sides. Things have become stale and unless we have a player clear out then something needs to change. Ideally the board would change instead but that seems unlikely.

I don't think replacing him will be anywhere near as easy as people on here seem to think.

Jamie, the answer to your question is probably 95% of managers in the league.

Andrew- its hard to be sure of course but i do think Martinez, Rodgers and Lambert have all done very good jobs with limited rescources. And their teams play decent football. They would probably be my top 3.
Phil Bellis
66 Posted 25/01/2012 at 09:51:55
Jamie/Mike,
Oh, right...please look up "hyperbole"
Richard Dodd
67 Posted 25/01/2012 at 10:42:49
I promised not to post until `the window` closed so apologies to all.

Graham, I stopped submitting this type of Club hand-out two years ago but it looks very much that they`ve got someone to take over the mantle!

Happy times, sucker!
Scott Campbell
68 Posted 25/01/2012 at 10:59:35
Andrew Fair 644 - How can anybody give you proof that somebody else will do a better job? You don't know until that person is in the job. All you can go on is what managers are doing with other teams, resources, etc.

Wigan, Swansea and Norwich all play better football than we do and have less expensive squads in terms of wages and transfer fees. They also, in my opinion, have less talented individuals.

You talk about "dicks" branding Moyes's football dour, devoid, blah, blah... That's a bit unfair really. These people are expressing their opinion, which they are entitled, just as you are entitled to yours. If you can give me a couple of better terms for Moyes's football then I'll hold my hands up and say fair enough...

We're consistently being outplayed week-in, week-out, by sides we should be beating with ease. However, the manager is so negative in his outlook and system that we can't even break these sides down. That is not good enough. We don't owe the man a living because of a couple of European placings ? which is not 'success' by the way ? he's had a decade, and in that time everybody has got behind him and supported him. He's broken the club's transfer record on four occasions. His tactics are negative, dour, blah, blah, blah. Worse still, his tactics are neglectful and irresponsible.

It's time for a change.
Daniel A Johnson
69 Posted 25/01/2012 at 12:16:44
Sure who can do better?

Well just look at Newcastle Utd and Sunderland.

They took decisive action and are reaping the benefits through a change of manager.

Everton just leave it >10yrs and hope things will get better.


This clubs is dead.

Its on life support and yet there are articles like this saying we should all be thankful and shiny happy people.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
Ray Robinson
70 Posted 25/01/2012 at 12:28:52
Andrew #644, using your own argument, we would never have appointed Moyes all those years ago. How did we know he'd make a successful go of it - which he did for many years - but not any more.
Mark Stone
71 Posted 25/01/2012 at 12:21:11
Not sure about 'Everton just leave it 10 years'. Whilst this season has been disappointing, it is not at all true to suggest that the whole tenure has been. Moyes has his supporters now, because of the good job he has done over those 10 years. I'm talking about European qualification and reaching an FA Cup Final. This season, the poor performances are mitigated against the fact that Pienaar, Arteta etc have left and not been replaced.

I fully understand and agree that the negative tactics are frustrating when they are not really paying off (if we were keeping it tight and picking up 1-0 wins, I'd be happy enough) but not all of us are so quick to pull the trigger or erase almost a decade's worth of over achievement because of one or two disappointing ones.

Everton are in a transitional phase. For me over, the past 6 or so years, Arteta and Cahill have been synonymous with everything good about Everton. That period I fear has finished one or two seasons too early but I am still confident that Fellaini, Rodwell and Barkley and possibly even Vellios, can step up to the plate and do the business, but that it might take a year or two before we get there fully.

We desperately need a good centre forward and hopefully that will be someone who is young and hungry and will be here for the long haul.
Steve Guy
72 Posted 25/01/2012 at 12:53:34
Mark, I thought about replying point by point, but lost the will, I probably just need to polish up my Blue tinted specs a bit and get me some of them there happy pills...
Stephen Leary
73 Posted 25/01/2012 at 13:47:35
Graeme what about the missing money on the operating costs? So we just sit there and say nothing go to Goodison watch the tripe that's being served up while paying a lot of money to do so, and hope in the summer that someone offers £20mill a piece for our home-grown kids, Barkley and Rodwell? Then, as if by magic, super Bill gives Moyes the whole £40mill to spend?

That's fantasy land lad, we got £17mill last summer in fees £19.5mill if you count Pienaar going the January before and what money of that have we had? The problem for us selling the club is not the staduim or us just being another club, as it's been stated there has been enquiries, but I think what puts them off Graeme is your mate Bill's £160 mill asking price. The man calls himself an Evertonaian but demands that much; he's a shark, a compulsive liar and deluded. It's up to us fans to make a stand and rant, rave, protest until it changes.

He will take us down at this rate as I believe he has no idea how to get us out of this mess; maybe lowering the asking price would help!? Rodwell and Baines will be next to go, but believe me we will not be getting 4 players in that make the side as a whole better. Wayne Bridge and Fabrice Muamba would be what we would go for ? the cheap shite option as the cunt upostairs sits and laps it up, while hoping his mate Moyes can keep us up every season.
Mark Stone
74 Posted 25/01/2012 at 15:09:23
You don't need happy pills or blue tinted specs to recognise that Moyes has previously done well at Everton. The way some people talk, you would think that Moyes took over one of the best teams in the country. It is completely ignored that we spent the 10 years before he came as the worst team in the premiership not to get relegated.

I've been frustrated by Moyes this year. I do feel he is too reluctant with young players and I do wish there was a bit more attacking intent. I do worry about how strikers don't seem to settle here.

I also think the poor performances of this season can be mitigated, to some extent, by the fact that the two most (only?) exciting players to watch have been sold and not replaced.

People need to see the middle ground. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to be in either the 'Moyes Is Shite' or 'Moyes is Great' camp. There can be balance.
Andrew Rimmer
75 Posted 25/01/2012 at 15:47:26
"Two most exciting players"???? When was Arteta last exciting? A bloody long time ago! And Peanuts was sold,,,,, for peanuts, when he should have been sold earlier when he expressed his desire to leave! Mismanagement! Plain and simple!
Phil Bellis
76 Posted 25/01/2012 at 16:21:44
It's taken us 10 years to get back to the last, dark, desperate days of "Disappointed" Walter
But we've got there
Dan Parker
77 Posted 25/01/2012 at 16:21:36
I know it doesn't compare with our great club Everton but my local non-league side Northwich just went bust, manager quit and ground sold to unknown owners.

Plus Pompey winding up, things aren't that bad for us.

Our rivals with mega-rich owners aside, it's hard to say whether our mid-table rivals are over-stretching their finances and to what extent, and how long they can keep it up.

Pompey won the FA Cup, but look what it's cost them in the longer term.
Ray Robinson
78 Posted 25/01/2012 at 16:17:53
Mark #721, I for one am extremely grateful to Moyes for the job that he has done under extremely difficult circumstances but when a player has lost his form, no matter how good he was previously, he is usually dropped by the manager (probably not by Moyes!).

So why shouldn't a club consider dropping a manager who gives the firm impression that he has "lost his form". How long do you persist with a player or manager based on what he has achieved in the past?

Even SAF has an end date!
Dan Parker
79 Posted 25/01/2012 at 16:26:09
Phil, I agree also. I have a feeling we'll start seeing old players joining the club ala Ginola, Gazza and Sparky as a last throw of the dice.
Ray Robinson
80 Posted 25/01/2012 at 16:28:32
Dan #735 - Michael Ball is a free agent I believe!
Dan Parker
81 Posted 25/01/2012 at 16:37:21
When he's not too busy tweeting!
Graeme Beresford
82 Posted 25/01/2012 at 16:13:52
Whomever is saying Martinez, Rogers, or O'Neil would be a better manager than Moyes is kind of worrying me.I think this article has thrown up good arguments all around.

Eric 625.... Oh you mean the united fans who have been protesting for ages to get rid of the Glazers. City and Chelsea will both have their times trust me. Either when owners get bored or when FIFA/UEFA or the EPL demand certain financial aspects to be met. This will happen in the near future. I also don't know the in's and out's of the Kings Dock/Kirkby situation as I'm sure nobody really does. All I am saying is that if we haven't moved for whatever reason then it surly has been in our best interests. Who wants to move stadiums and go bankrupt with a few years right? Again, Doncaster springs to me. But again as I said earlier a new stadium rarely solves anything.

Scott Campbell 640. You're being a bit excessive here aren't you. If you are going to make statements like 'Here's money to go and open a new Topman store' at least backup your argument, which you can't so please refrain from illogical arguments. We all know the board haven't invested anything, we know Bill is skint and we now know the Arteta money has gone to the bank. Would you or rather us spent that money and our debt risen to a point were we could be in financial trouble. Screw your head back on and be realistic.

'Graeme, what will it take for you to conclude that perhaps Moyes should do one? Championship football? Or will you still be asking us to remain positive when we're set for an away tie at Doncaster? '

We would probably be a club like Doncaster with somebody like yourself in charge. I am not saying I want Moyes to stay nor am I saying I want him to leave. I just think alot of people are blind to the fact that there really isn't much other options out there. Yes, I tell you what lets get Zola in or Weir to manage us. If we get relegated then we live to fight another day. Sure we will all be gutted and furious but you forget that Moyes is the man who has saved us from relegation for many seasons. Either with his tactics, luck, eye for cheap decent players, etc, whatever you want to call it. I think you would rather Everton be like Doncaster.

Daniel Johnson..... 'Well just look at Newcastle Utd and Sunderland.

They took decisive action and are reaping the benefits through a change of manager.'

No they are not really. They are just having a good period, once you get a few wins, confidence goes up, with players and fans. You get the winning mentality. Newcastle and Sunderland are Boing Boing clubs and again as soon as times get tought Pardew will be first out and O'Neill will walk. Its happened before and most likely will again. Unstable owners and clubs.

Stephen Leary. 'Graeme what about the missing money on the operating costs?' No money has gone missing! Operating costs can be anything. Operating costs as I said before, sounds petty but can be anything from the paint on the posts and grass, to a damaged tile in the lads pissers. Every business has operating costs. A company like Blockbusters operating costs for example could be buying a new range of DVD holders to fitting new lights in 4 stores. Every business has operating costs. And sure our's has increased recently due to moving to Finch Farm.

What does it matter how much money we got for players? Okay we received money but as I have said before debt obviously needed to be cleared. Bill has said before that banks will no longer lend us money. Therefore surly paying back money we owe to banks will help us in the future.

Mate you're missing the point. If you owned a business worth £100. And you knew it was literally worth £100 pound, would you not try to sell it for £150? Of course you would, anyone of us would. And we are talking more millions here not the odd tenner. Okay I agree with you that it might be a bit excessive but come back to with a definitive number of how much Everton is worth, ALL TOGETHER. Because I've just counted through our players and give each first team member a minimum amount and came to £95 million pound's worth of players. That's just players!!!!!
Colin Wainwright
83 Posted 25/01/2012 at 17:15:45
Give it a rest Graeme and do some research. The facts that will contradict every single statement you have just made, have been done to death on this very website.

I'm not surprised nobody can be arsed repeating them.
GJ Butler
84 Posted 25/01/2012 at 17:30:19
£95 million worth of players?!!! (Thats three exclamation marks)

Unfortunately Graham you must consider the buyers as well as the sellers when coming up with unrealistic valuations. For example, you value Bily at £7 million. After he is on the market for two years and you've only had one club come forward and make a bid of £2.5 million, then Bily ceases to be worth £7 million - unless you dig your heels in with your unrealistic valuations and you keep Bily.

Multiply the numbers by 10 if you're talking about selling the club, the principals the same.

On a side note, I'd love to see your list of valuations that gives us a playing squad to the value of £95 million.
John Keating
85 Posted 25/01/2012 at 17:44:25
Graeme. " I also don't know the ins and outs of the Kings Dock/Kirkby situation as I'm sure nobody really does "
Graeme you must be the ONLY person who does not know !
I'm not sure where you were during the Kirkby inquiry but it was fully reported on a daily basis warts and all.
Even those people who had supported the planned move prior to the inquiry hid as day to day the inaccuracies and downright lies of the Board came out.
Please Graeme your points are all valid in the debate but please please please don't insult everyone by saying nobody knows the ins and out of Kirkby.
Had Kenwright and the Board had any sort of honour or common decency they would have resigned on the Kirkby debacle alone.
Kris Boner
86 Posted 25/01/2012 at 18:03:03
Bit late but Andrew James just made my year
Mark Stone
87 Posted 25/01/2012 at 18:13:33
But Ray it's not just about losing form is it? Is it really justified to sack a manager because performances aren't as good as they were before he had to sell all of best players? As for how long to stick with it, I don't know, how quick is too quick? One game? One month? One season?
Ray Robinson
88 Posted 25/01/2012 at 18:40:39
Ok, Mark - point taken about having to sell players but as been pointed out on here many, many times, his motivation, poor tactical decisions, team selections and substitutions all appear to suggest he has "lost form". Where's the spark, steely determination, adventure - even risk taking?

If he is as pissed off as his demeanour suggests, he should resign. If he continues to take the £65k a week without banging on Kenwright's door, he can't complain too much. He can't have it both ways.
Mark Stone
89 Posted 25/01/2012 at 21:27:22
I somewhat agree with you Ray, but the question of whether he should resign or not is a different matter (and there are two very different ways of looking at that, too!). My point really is that I don't think the board have any justification to sack him!
David Bridge
90 Posted 25/01/2012 at 21:37:25
Moyes promised to quit when he got the feeling the fans did not want him there any more.............. Well Moyes the time has come I do not know a single fan who isnt pissed off this season and doesnt spend the majority of each match slagging you or the tactics off.

Graham obviously a trainee life coach good try but nothing positive can be gained from this situation.
Moyes has NOT saved us from relegation thats a myth and as for European conquests maybe if you were one of us unlucky fans travelling abroad at massive cost you would appreciate we were completely found out and absolutley shite!
And the one Cup final was an embarrasment what a short memory you have.
Denis Richardson
91 Posted 25/01/2012 at 21:40:47
Wow - just got round to reading this article and had to check if this was for real or not. Can't be Ross as he's not at the club anymore.

Graeme, I'll assume for now you are not taking the piss with said article. I really dont know where to begin, however just a couple of things;

1) you most certainly do not speak for 99.9% of Everton fans. I can assure you that more than 0.1% of Everton fans know basic business 101 and can navigate a set of financial statements. If you really want to know more about what the numbers mean, there have been numerous posts on this website explaining the annual accounts (in baby language). Please read some of these first before glossing over this crucial topic with a simple '99.9% of us, me included, do not understand business to understand where the money has gone '. You can write so I presume you can read!

2) If we finish more than 9 points above the relegation zone, I would bite your hand off if administration was offered. Why? Because it would mean that we would never have to endure blue bill and his cronies ever again from an ownership perspective, (am even happy for my one share in the club to become worthless!). Less than 9 points, then obviously no - as we would be relegated. Administration in the near term however is highly unlikley as we have enough assets (players) we can sell to keep the bailiffs at bay for a year or two at least.


I admire optimism but sticking your head in the sand does not mean the world is fine outside.
Roman Sidey
92 Posted 25/01/2012 at 21:54:35
"I honestly think the best thing Everton can do instead of us all moaning is give Moyes our full support and let?s see what happens over the summer."

Graeme, at what point does this end? "See what happens"? We all know what is going to happen.

Moyes will come out in late May, a few days after another defender has won player of the season AND topped our goal scoring sheet for the year, and tell the fans that there isn't any money for signings, but that Fellaini is coming back from yet another post-winter injury and that's like having a new player. He'll then sign a 5 year contract extension, and say how he couldn't ask for a better chairman, and that the performances are all good but we just aren't having any luck up top. He'll extend Hibbo's and Osman's contract until 2018, because they could be a shout for the World Cup in Qatar. He'll then send Vellios out on loan to Dag & Red, on deadline day, as well as sell, I don't know, Distin and Heitinga for about 3mil total. We'll start next season playing Anichebe up front on his own because Saha and Cahill will be absolutely shagged from their "extensive pre-season", before he injures his knee/shoulder/heart, whichever it is every fucking year. Moyes will then say that the 3mil couldn't have been spent because we didn't get it until 11.59pm of the deadline, and that Our Dear Leader has promised him the cash for January.

Oh, and Robbie Savage will say what a great job Moyes did in the summer "in the circumstances."

Graeme, there is no reason why we should have been sold already. But when teams like Reading, QPR, Notts County etc etc, get bought, it kind of stinks of poor management that our club can't find buyers.

Our Dear Leader and Moyes, both out!!!
Roman Sidey
93 Posted 25/01/2012 at 22:39:29
*Qatar should read as Russia. Damn auto-correct.
Gavin Ramejkis
94 Posted 25/01/2012 at 23:04:35
Dan I think some rich cockney dog in Monaco might have something to do wit Pompey going bust
Tony McNulty
95 Posted 25/01/2012 at 23:22:48
Roman,

Regardless of whether or not I agree with anything you said, I will cut you a considerable amount of slack following your Robbie Savage reference above.

Well done. Made me laugh. Classic.
Danny Hughes
96 Posted 26/01/2012 at 01:09:51
Graeme,

Can so many blues be wrong? The majority (on this site anyway) are not happy with the current board/manager.

When do you say enough IS enough, I can't prove this is all Kenwright's fault... Oh wait I can he's in charge, in the hot seat and the skipper of this ship.

When things go wrong, you must look to the people in charge and sadly for you it's Kenwright. When the banks went wrong it wasnt the customers who got blamed was it?

When the Costa Concordia went down, it wasn't the passengers who got the blame, was it?

You mentioned Pompey & such ? was it the fans who got the blame?

All of the above answers: NO! The buck stops with Billy Liar; you have openly admitted you're not happy with certain aspects yourself so I really don't understand your arguement. While fans keep defending the current situation, none of us are going to see the changes we all want.

Stronger together! Up the Toffeemen!
Eric Myles
97 Posted 26/01/2012 at 02:47:36
No Graeme #742, I mean the United owners and manager that buy exciting talent from around the world (e.g. Ronaldo) and snap up our best talent (e.g. Rooney) for peanuts and have increased the turnover of their club drastically making them one of the richest clubs in the world.

In short, a management with vision and business acumen that are building a team that wins things.
Andy Peers
98 Posted 26/01/2012 at 03:45:48
Graeme Beresford, you need to have a DNA test and give it to us Evertonians so we can check how much blue blood/Kenwright blood you have in you. Absolutely the worst article I have absorbed on this website. "99.9% of supporters don't understand business"! You actually mean that Kenwright and You do not understand 99.9% of Everton's business. Roman Sidey #824, 100% correct. Everton are a 'Battered Wife' right now, we are stuck with the Bastard that is beating us to death and any chance of a change is beaten right out of us.
Mark Stone
99 Posted 26/01/2012 at 04:26:21
'Moyes has NOT saved us from relegation thats a myth'

Before he came we had been the worst team in the premiership not to be relegated for about ten years. Since he came up and until the Spurs and Citteh phenomena we've generally been one of the top two teams not to qualify for the champions league. There can't be much of an argument about that, can there?.

'as for European conquests maybe if you were one of us unlucky fans travelling abroad at massive cost you would appreciate we were completely found out and absolutley shite!'

At least we got there. Better than scraping round for three points needed to stay up on the last day of the season.

' the one Cup final was an embarrasment what a short memory you have' I could say the same about you, do you have any memory of the years 1990-2002. And you think we're bad now???
Roman Sidey
100 Posted 26/01/2012 at 04:45:43
"Worst team not to get relegated" and "top two teams not to qualify for the champions league".

My jaw just hit the floor.
Scott Campbell
101 Posted 26/01/2012 at 06:35:00
Mark Stone #860 You say about Moyes saving us from relegation and how he's turned us around, etc. Well, in Walter Smith's last full season at the club we finished 16th on 42 points, our avergae home attendance was 33,945 and our top scorer was Kevin Campbell on 9. I tell you what, here's a wager for you. We won't hit any of those records this season! We'll have a lower points total, lower average attendance and a lower goal tally for the top scorer.
Derek Thomas
102 Posted 26/01/2012 at 06:47:16
HK Mk 2 &3, Walker, Walter, who cares; Shite was Shite and they were got rid of. Moyes is now in that group. The same solution applies. Stop splitting hairs.
Sam Hoare
103 Posted 26/01/2012 at 07:02:29
Roman, pick your jaw up. He's got a fair point. Per moyes we diced with relegation frequently. We have spent a decent part of his time here just outside the champions league spots. Not looking so rosy now admittedly but surely you can't deny that he has done some good work.
Scott Campbell
104 Posted 26/01/2012 at 06:42:34
Oh Graeme Beresford... Listen, do some research, mate, please. Don't take on an argument when you know virtually nothing about what you're talking about. It's not a mystery as to why the Kings Dock and DK failed - see John #758 - are you the only one who doesn't know? Do a bit of reading up around this site and others... You say I can't back up MY arguments. Really? I can, like I say, do a little research. I thought our connection with Philip Green was well known? Hang on, it is well known. It goes back to 2000! I dunno, google Philip Green Everton and have a read. I'm not here to be your teacher on the facts of Everton Football Club. Do your own reading, and then if you can back up your nonsense with facts then fair enough. Go on, give it a go. See if you can explain the operating costs, explanation with fact. "We all know the board haven't invested anything, we know Bill is skint and we now know the Arteta money has gone to the bank. Would you or rather us spent that money and our debt risen to a point were we could be in financial trouble. Screw your head back on and be realistic." I'd rather we were told the truth. So, if Arteta is being sold to appease the banks then just say so. Or say nothing. Just don't come out and tell lies. You are clutching at straws to defend Billy Liar and his sidekick Dour Davey. Why? Why do you feel the need to defend them with an argument which mentioned, was it DVD shelves?? Seriously. DVD shelves! Also, I want to be the guy who paints the posts at Goodison, he must be on some money. "City and Chelsea will both have their times trust me. Either when owners get bored or when FIFA/UEFA or the EPL demand certain financial aspects to be met. This will happen in the near future." Are you referring to the UEFA Financial Fair Play stuff? I assume so. Well here's a little lesson for you. Again, it is all available for you to find in offical documents, etc: Take a look at the wages to turnover ratio. It shows a huge growth in cost in terms of wages: £23M over five years! This means the vital wages to turnover ratio has risen to 69% just 1% below UEFA Financial Fair Play reccomendation of 70%... So, I'm not sure what you mean by "their times" but it seems our "time(s)" is already here. Jesus, read much..? Stop coming out with all your nonsense until you actually know what you're talking about. We've all better things to do than give you a brief history of the club's finances and so on... Oh, and yeah, we might be like Doncaster if I were in charge but then I didn't take my coaching badges at 22 years old.
Chad Schofield
105 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:35:25
Graeme,

Scott #870 is right... You can't really make a case for Bill Kenwright when you quithavclearly have done very little background reading. As said, just because you do not have a grasp on fugures, don't tar "99.9%" with the sane brush.

You're 26 not 6, put down the Paninni stickers, read something that's not official spin and realise that simple wishful thinking does not pay off.
Andrew Fair
106 Posted 26/01/2012 at 08:43:45
Danny Hughes#849 "Can so many blues be wrong? The majority (on this site anyway) are not happy with the current board/manager". To be fair i would say majority of people on this site are anti Kenright and anti Moyes. I think that if you look back at the time Bill was shown on the big screen at Goodison and got a big cheer from the majority of the crowd then this is a better representation of were he stands amongst the faithful! And I think those who have a memory span greater than the last 6 months back Moyes for what he has done for this club and his consistent top 8 PL finishes that no one else who has managed us since the PL era has managed to do!
Roman Sidey
107 Posted 26/01/2012 at 10:09:35
Sam Hoare, fair enough. A few times on here I have acknowledged that Moyes did very well in the past. My gripe is now. He isn't doing well now, and hasn't done well since Wembley in 09.

The biggest piss off that we the MOB get from you guys is having the only defence of the man that he hasn't got money to spend. Well, that didn't phase Moyes himself 18 months ago, when he declared he had "the best squad I've ever had."

What happened after that? Our lowest points total in five years, a first half season of four (maybe five) wins, and a record against the teams below us that were it not for some plucky results above us, would have seen us relegated.
Sam Hoare
108 Posted 26/01/2012 at 10:27:41
Roman, no doubt that things have gone badly this season and look very stale indeed. Personally i think the main reason for this is a failure to bring in fresh players over the last 3 years. But Moyes is not faultless by any means.

I still think that if we manage to finish around 8-12th then Moyes will have us around where our resources would dictate. But to move forward from here we need a change of some sort.
Scott Campbell
109 Posted 26/01/2012 at 10:32:10
The main problem is Moyes is utterly one dimensional. He has one system which he refuses to change. Failure to adapt has cost us immensely and will continue to do so...
Roman Sidey
110 Posted 26/01/2012 at 10:32:07
I'm hearing you, Sam. Change is vital, which is my main reason for wanting to see the back of TD4. There are managers out there that are good with low/no budgets, because they are good motivators, and have fresh ideas. Moyes has been sapped of his motivational skills, and only ever had one idea anyway.

With Bily leaving within hours, we are yet another attack minded player short in the squad, and it really is starting to look like Moyes would rather sell all of his fire power before even considering getting rid of any defenders. I'm not sure if there really was a bid for Jagielka in the summer, but, gun to their head, how many managers do you think would sell Arteta in order to keep Jags?
Mark Stone
111 Posted 26/01/2012 at 10:35:36
'What happened after that? Our lowest points total in five years, a first half season of four (maybe five) wins, and a record against the teams below us that were it not for some plucky results above us, would have seen us relegated'



maybe so but the squad was still meagre in comparison to the six teams who finished above us. We cant compete with the only six texms that finished above us Is it David Moyes fault that he can't build a squad that can compete with city, spurs, utd, chelsea, liverpool and arsenal? It was the best squad he'd had ... but every other team had their best squad too. Also, doesn't matter where the points come from. What matters is how many you've got in may. If it was a one off the 'plucky results' and 'lucky not to get relegated' comments might wash. It's not though is it? Its every year!
Roman Sidey
112 Posted 26/01/2012 at 11:08:56
Completely missed the point there, Mark. The key phrase there was about the results against teams below us. I did the research. Only counting games amongst the bottom 14 last season (i.e. us down), we were 9th on 35 points. That means, we dropped 43 points to teams that finished below us, with Moyes' "best ever squad". Not good enough.
Steve Pugh
113 Posted 26/01/2012 at 11:20:20
Roman, what you are saying is in that season he got us to finish roughly where we should have finished based on expenditure. Hmm terrible.

As for the only argument being money, you obviously don't read the posts that blame Moyes failings as being down to the fact that the man has given up on the board and lost all motivation, which then filters down through the players.
Mark Stone
114 Posted 26/01/2012 at 11:16:19
I haven't missed the point at all, Roman. I couldn't have addressed it any more clearly. Here it is again for you; 'doesn't matter where the points come from. What matters is how many you've got in may'. For clarity, if you beat Swansea you get three points, if you beat Man City you get three points. Mad but true.
Roman Sidey
115 Posted 26/01/2012 at 11:39:36
I fail to see how you got that from what I said, Steve.

If he has given up on the board and lost all motivation, then it is a professional crime for him not to walk away. He is the highest paid employee of a failing business. Anyone else in the whole entire world would have been let go already.
Roman Sidey
116 Posted 26/01/2012 at 11:52:07
Mark, I agree totally with you on the points issue. One of my original points though, was that Moyes so called "best ever squad" managed to get the third lowest points total in all of his full seasons at the club. If it's all about where the points come from, then our manager is failing miserably and is looking at getting his lowest since taking over the club this year.
Mark Stone
118 Posted 26/01/2012 at 17:24:05
Well I'm going to backtrack here and say actually it's not all about points. It's about the number of points you've got in May, relative to the other teams in the Premier League, and last season we finished as high as could be expected. I agree with you about this year looking bad, though I'm confident we get more points this year than we ended up with in 2004.

My point is, is it justifiable to sack a manager who has done well for you consistently for several years, because results aren't going his way during the season after you've made him sell his best players? For me he deserves the full season at the very least, even more really.

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