Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Trust Everton ? What's The Strategy?
By Phil Guyers :: 17/02/2012
29 Comments (»Last)
The original thread on the subject of Trust Everton appears to have degenerated into a slanging match about stadium redevelopment and hotel occupancy rates and I?d like to bring things back to discussing the Trust itself and how we can make it work for the good of the club in the future.
First of all, let me say that I am a ?believer?. This is the best idea that I?ve heard to actually do something and break the mould of current football finance. Tony has done a great job in setting up this vehicle and I believe it is the duty of every Evertonian who cares about the future of the club to get on board and do whatever he can to drive it forward. My motivation for writing this piece, however, is that I can?t help feeling that, the way things are looking, the Trust is going to fall well short of what I believe it could achieve.
Last March, a couple of months after the Trust Everton idea was first suggested, I wrote an article on this site entitled ?How Many Are We?? which basically addressed the issue of how many Evertonians there are in the world and how many of that number would be willing to contribute financially to further the interests of the club. The point I was trying to make was that, until we had an idea of that number and how much they were willing to contribute, there was no point in discussing what Trust Everton would actually do. I called for the establishment of a database of people who were interested in the concept of Trust Everton in order to gain a rough idea of what the Trust could hope to achieve.
Now that the Trust has ?gone live? I was extremely disappointed to find that, not only are the organisers only now starting to find out how many people are interested but they have decided that the Trust should try to buy the training ground for £15 million! How preposterous is it to conduct a feasibility study into buying such an expensive asset when you actually don?t have any money! I would go so far as to say that, at the moment, the Trust appears to have no strategy beyond wishful thinking. Do they really think they can just sit back and wait for the money to roll in?
The idea of buying Finch Farm is a massive own goal for at least two other reasons. First, it alienates anyone who doesn?t agree with it, of which I am obviously one but there have been many posters so far who would prefer something else e.g. stadium redevelopment. People whose contributions will be greatly needed won?t even bother to join if they are not enthused by the Trust?s objectives. Secondly, what gives the organisers the right to decide what to do with the members? money? Surely the best approach is to build up capital in the Trust and have a proper debate and ultimately a vote on the best way to use the Trust?s money. This is simply the democracy that everyone was calling for last year as opposed to ideas being imposed from on high. If the result of such a process is that the members want to purchase Finch Farm, fair enough.
The most exciting thing that I have read since the Trust started was Tony saying that ?several thousand? questionnaires had been completed. Can we assume that this equates to the number of people who have actually registered? I?ve done the questionnaire twice as, at the moment, it appears to be the only way of communicating with the Trust so questionnaires do not necessarily translate into actual bodies on the ground. However, I?m going to assume that we have 3,000 people as interested as I am. Does anybody know what the next move is and what the criteria are for deciding when to take it?
I know that I?ll be criticised for my impatience but I believe that those 3,000 people should be able to become members immediately and pay their first annual subscription of £10. This would raise £30,000 and should be used to fund a PR campaign on behalf of the Trust with the sole aim of increasing membership. This money would have nothing to do with the main aim of furthering the interests of EFC but be kept for the Trust itself. Over time any surplus after accounting for the running costs of the Trust would be transferred to the main fund.
My belief is that the Trust should have at least 20,000 contributing members if it is to make a difference in the world of the Premier League. However, I also believe that getting to that figure is going to be a long battle against scepticism and apathy. I go to the match with four mates, none of whom is the slightest bit interested in Trust Everton. In fact, whenever I try to get a discussion going, they are amazed that I?m keen on the idea and the talk quickly turns back to the usual matchday conversation. I appreciate that this may not be representative but I don?t get the impression that Everton fans generally are buzzing with enthusiasm about Trust Everton.
The other subject that the Trust website is quiet about is how much each member is required to contribute. If the Trust is really going to make a difference, we cannot have some people only contributing £2 a month. I ticked the box for ?£20 a month or more? on the questionnaire and believe that £20 should be the minimum. It is a fact of life that the majority of people will pay the minimum they are required to and if too many people are contributing £24 a year, we simply won?t have enough money to do anything worthwhile. I come back again to the total folly of wanting to spend £15 million whilst acknowledging the possibility of Trust members only wanting to contribute £24 a year. Madness!
Maybe Tony has a clear idea of exactly how Trust Everton is going to raise £15 million and, if so, I?d like to hear it. Speaking for myself, I?m prepared to pay my £10 annual subscription whatever happens but (even though I still think the target should be at least 20,000) I?ll need to know that 10,000 other Evertonians are committed to the cause and that I?ll get some say in how it is spent before I start to make my regular £50 a month contribution.
How do other Toffeewebbers think things are going to pan out for Trust Everton?
Reader Comments (29)
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3 Posted 18/02/2012 at 04:21:17
But I do see that Tony et al have put a lot of work in to this whole thing, there maybe some 'trade secrets' or 'cunning plans', that if brought too soon to the light of day might lose their effectiveness if too many people ( other groups for instance ) try to get on the gravytrain/bandwagon at the same time.
Trust Everton might decide that I have 'no need to know' at this time and well I mightn't, but unless I know all that I might not need to know, I won't be able to decide that I really don't need to know it.
Make it GBP21 minimum per calender month then; 1000 people x 252/yr ( 21pcm) =1/4mill x 4 yrs =1mill per 1000 subscribers..... more if some feel they can put in more, still one man one vote though, no matter how much you put in. If everybody puts in what they think they can safely afford we are all putting in effectively the same e.g. what we can safely afford.
There will be compound interest laddered in per year. These sorts of amounts can be invested even offshore for what is now decent interest in rock solid institutions ( no Gordon Ramsey Icelandic flavour of the month financial jiggery pokerry )
Nodoubt proper financial people of Tony's ilk will be muttering about their granny and eggs. But like football, the money game is and has a beautiful simplicity when played correctly ( school of science ) and only cocks up when greed and or fear turn it into an enron type 'keep it tight and pinch one' ( or in their case a lot more than one )abortion.
I would think ( hope ) that the reason that the thing is taking so long is that it takes time to make it so water tight that the Jimmy Hoffa's and the Robert Maxwell's can't get their fingers into it, while still remaining flexible enough to bob and weave through the financial world's defence.
I have a good feeling about this.
4 Posted 18/02/2012 at 06:00:02
5 Posted 18/02/2012 at 09:01:17
John, the rationale for buying Finch Farm is that for £15m they get an asset that is going to bring in around £50m in income over the remaining life of the lease.
At the end of the lease it can be renegotiated or the asset sold. In any case the £50m can be reinvested into other assets to benefit the Club.
6 Posted 18/02/2012 at 09:41:54
It was my understanding that the terms of the lease were to be renegotiated should the trust ever own it.
I don't like the idea of propping up this pathetic regime and the course now seems set. This is a bit of a turn-off for me as I don't think this is the best use of Evertonian's collective funds and voices. I'd probably still contribute because, despite my reservations, it's still something proactive that may benefit EFC.
That said my contributions would be less than if the aim were to get enough shares to gain a seat on the board. Something that would give genuine influence over the future direction of the club.
7 Posted 18/02/2012 at 10:46:06
Only 3 shares are needed to be eligible for a seat on the board, the other criteria is that you have to be elected to the board by the board members. That's unlikely to happen.
Possibly someone owning more than 51% of the shares could call for the current board to be voted out at an AGM? Oops, guess that's unlikely to happen as well then.
8 Posted 18/02/2012 at 10:36:30
This style of management leads to too many opinions and too much nonsense due to it's very nature of variety. As people we all have valid opinions and truths. The project MUST have clarity and purpose.
Another challenge is that are people willing to subscibe to a kitty that has no clear direction which could end up spending money in a way that they do not agree with.
The very idea of a "Trust" is to ringfence an asset and provide a solid footing. So the project has to have something tangible to protect that enables the entity (which in this case is Everton Football Club) to function NO MATTER WHAT.
The reality of raising £15 million for a training facility as an asset makes some logical sense in a "Trust" scenario as it is a physical tangible asset that allows Everton to function. But, the question of building a stadium and using that as an asset makes some sense too... in a "Trust" scenario.
My views are £15 million for what... one player like Fellaini. Yes... some benefit. A stadium costing £200 million or whatever the figure is now, is a huge project that by the time you have generated the money the building costs would have gone up so you then need to raise more. So a stadium, unless you can raise the cash quickly, probably will not get build without creating some debt, which then detracts away from the purpose of a "Trust".
I have ran businesses which have had £millions in sales per year. I state this not for ego, but business accumen purposes. I do not see how a "Trust" will be viable enough to make a big impact on our fantastic club within the modern economics of football.
May I suggest, simply creating a not-for-profit organisation that loans the money generated to the club's current owners who spend it as they like. Bill is a blue to the core and should he sell, then the loans are repaid. Then what comes back goes back to the people who gave the money at zero interest and/or goes to special Everton related causes in our community.
People are trying to some good, and that is great, but I have gone down so many blind alleys and I see this chaos being to complicated for people to buy into and /or agree with. I see 20,000 cooks with no impactful outcome of any real value being created.... In business speak... busy achieving nothing.
Obviously, if you disagree give me some sound logic as I am open to any blindspots that I may have. I only see things from a limited perspective... as we all do!
9 Posted 18/02/2012 at 11:07:09
As regards your point about communication there have been two e-mail addresses on the website since it was launched that you can use for this purpose. The first is enquiries@trusteverton.com via which you can send in general comments, issues, questions etc. As explained on the website current resource constraints mean that these have to be dealt with collectively via a periodic update.
Trust Everton is in the process of collating the issues and questions raised via various channels such as forum posts, e-mails sent via the website, and the survey. Every effort will be made to address these ? your own included - in the next update.
The second e-mail address is experts@trusteverton.com for fans who feel they have relevant professional expertise they would like to contribute (and also the time to do so). We are also in the process of collating those received so far.
Eric #682. To clear up another point, Trust Everton is not (and nor to our knowledge are any of the Supporters Direct affiliated supporters? trusts) a ?trust? in the various accepted legal senses of the word.
10 Posted 18/02/2012 at 11:28:39
I believe Tony has intimated that the terms of the lease would be negotiated to be more favourable to the club?
While we may need only a few shares to gain a place on the board a shareholding of 20-30% could see our group wielding a good deal of influence and give access to area's of club business currently off limits.
11 Posted 18/02/2012 at 11:40:30
There's around 16% of the shares 'out there' in small shareholdings that are not held by 'friends' of the board but what good is a shareholding if there is no AGM or EGM at which to 'wield influence'?
Unless there is something in the companies acts or charters that states that holders of a certain percentage MUST be given a seat on the board, or otherwise consulted on company business?
12 Posted 18/02/2012 at 11:36:34
13 Posted 18/02/2012 at 11:51:19
I'm no expert on the subject but there's a bit of info out there I've picked up.
Probably someone more in the know will pick me up on it, but, I think if a person/entity gains control of 30% of a company they are obliged to make an offer for the rest.
Also, that 16% added to say 29.9% means you would have to have an ally with say 5% and the control of the club and it's operations moves into a complete different sphere.
The shareholders association have effectively been blocked from making their feelings toward the running of the club known, but from the EGM calling episode we can gather it's not favourable.
How much would it cost to take 30% of the club from somebody? Perhaps Robert Earl(Green) would be happy to cut and run at this point? Maybe even Bill would(and to sell it as a benevolent style move) for a realistic amount?
14 Posted 18/02/2012 at 12:41:20
"20 (ponunds) should be the minimum" trust fee paid per month.
If we get 20,000 on board, all paying only 2 pounds per month, almost half a million would be generated per annum.
Is it realistic to think Finch Farm would ever be bought outright? A mortgage of some description makes more sense, and could be paid off reasonably comfortably even with such modest revenues.
Lots of fans could afford more than 2 pounds per month I am sure, but personally I would not feel comfortable paying much more than £5 per month on a charitable trust whilst life expectancy is continuing to rise!
15 Posted 18/02/2012 at 12:47:24
Something else that i think is a good outcome from buying assets is that should the club fail financially, these would be protected by the trust. The ground would therefore not be able to used by administrators.
One thing i am now confused about is that if Trust Everton is not a trust in the legal sense, what legal form is it taking? A CIC springs to mind as a possible form.
16 Posted 18/02/2012 at 13:09:51
Some people do things and some people sit around talking about what they?re going to do. Trust Everton are using a professional organisation in Survey Me to conduct a feasibility study. What?s wrong with that? You wrote an article on here ?How many are we?, how did you get on?
With regard to the decision to try to purchase Finch Farm, did you not know it is FOR SALE? If we can purchase this asset, not only would it provide funds for further asset acquisitions, it would also provide credibility.
Anyway, are you serious in suggesting that the fans should put their hard-earned cash together to develop a stadium that they do not own? A stadium that is owned by the people on the board who simply refuse to put any of their own money into it. Seriously?
As John says above, the stadium should only be developed once it has been acquired by the fans, i.e., Trust Everton. The Finch Farm purchase can only help us to that ultimate goal.
You talk about £2, £10, £20 a month or whatever we need to purchase Finch Farm. I do not claim to know the intricacies of corporate finance but what I do know is that, when I bought my house, I didn?t save up 150 grand and then hand it over to the current owner. Just saying like.
Finally, I notice Tony I?Anson has acknowledged your post and due to the tone of your article I think you may be interested in emailing your views to experts@trusteverton.com. That is if you haven?t already.
Tony I?Anson ? great job, by the way. Keep on keeping on.
17 Posted 18/02/2012 at 13:24:24
If the club fail's financially then what's the point of owning a premier league training ground?
It's not like Bolton are going to re-locate to Halewood???
It's difficult and I'm sue Tony and Mike have given it a lot of thought but I'd prefer something more direct if I'm honest.
18 Posted 18/02/2012 at 13:29:43
I'm sure once they have a definite path they will put it out to the support and people can then make up their own minds.
Just the few posters so far on this thread have varied thoughts, ideas and amounts in their minds.
Once the decision has been made by the guys it will have to be with them or not.
We cannot have loads of people wanting numerous things
19 Posted 18/02/2012 at 13:33:36
If we raise capital to buy shares and the company goes bust, we're left with nothing. If we use capital to buy Finch Farm and the company goes bust, we're left with Finch Farm.
In that situation maybe we could rent it to the shite for £2M a year.
20 Posted 18/02/2012 at 13:41:52
21 Posted 18/02/2012 at 13:57:50
I don`t think Everton as a `private`company is subject to the same legislation but I`m sure someone can clear this up.
22 Posted 18/02/2012 at 14:19:25
Tony, I understand it's not a 'Trust' in the legal sense of the word but perhaps you can clarify the position on 'shares' in the Trust and voting rights as that seems to be raising some questions as to how it will be administered.
23 Posted 18/02/2012 at 14:52:42
But LFC might?
And another benefit of owning Finch Farm is that you own a large block of land which could be sold.
24 Posted 18/02/2012 at 15:39:20
25 Posted 18/02/2012 at 18:04:41
No nor do I think we should. But it would be a definite positive if the trust or some other group made a concerted effort to take the club down the German ownership model, maybe just with a lower percentage. That way regardless of who owns the club you have someone with gravitas inside the club who is acting purely in the interests of the club and it's fanbase.
Peter, My whole reasoning for wanting some type of fan ownership is to ensure the club is governed in a way to stop that happening. Can we honestly say the current board are acting for the good of Everton? What's to say the next lot will?
BTW, The shites fans are gobshites, but I doubt their board are soft enough to enter into a lease anything like the one we signed.
26 Posted 19/02/2012 at 01:59:38
And as it only needs 3 shares anyway the money would be best spent buying assets that the Club needs to actually operate, like FF and GP. With cash in hand an a plan to improve the Club they might just take it seriously.
27 Posted 19/02/2012 at 11:44:06
The whole point of Trust Everton is to secure the future of the club for future generations. Maybe future generations will decide that we should secure the shares of the club also.
I see the concept as a long term one. If I am lucky enough to see any of it come to fruition, I'll be happy.
From acorns great oaks grow.
28 Posted 19/02/2012 at 16:46:16
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/footballnation/swanseacityfc/swansea-city-fc/2012/02/19/swansea-city-fans-a-major-influence-as-government-encourages-role-of-supporters-trusts-91466-30358541/
29 Posted 19/02/2012 at 16:53:45
30 Posted 19/02/2012 at 17:09:27
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2 Posted 18/02/2012 at 03:48:39
Tony and his team have given up their time and no doubt money so far and I think it only fair to let them dictate the timeline. They are more than aware of the state of the club.
Possibly the reason why Finch Farm is being mooted is that it is a known cost in its entirety. The ground? Well, how many mortgages do we have and with whom and at what cost??
The Trust could only develop the ground or part of it as long as they owned the whole thing. Patience is a virtue. We've put up with Kenwright and his cronies for years. I've no doubt Tony is pushing this along at best possible speed.