Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Everton?s Battle for Hearts over Minds
By Barry Jones :: 15/03/2012
52 Comments (»Last)
For quite a few Evertonians, the recent level of media adulation of David Moyes, at times verging on beatification, has been baffling. There?s little doubt that, in an era when a manager?s life-expectancy is increasingly measured not in years but in months, it?s a considerable achievement for Moyes to mark a decade at the helm with Everton. But what is perhaps a little more surprising is that Moyes has survived at a club of Everton?s stature without actually winning anything.
Moyes appears uncomfortable with the PR-driven media campaign; he told the Guardian, ?I am quite embarrassed about the whole 10 years thing? and has had to endure The Telegraph?s Henry Winter salivating, ?Everton manager David Moyes is the MOST coveted man in the Premier League after SUCCEEDING on a shoe-string?. If you try really hard, you can kind of understand what Henry means, but, like me, you probably fall well short of agreeing on the eager usage of the verbs 'coveted' and 'succeeding'.
What Henry probably means is that clubs in a similar position to Everton ? and by that I mean 'skint' ? will now look for a manager who can maintain their Premier League status on a shoestring budget and without making the club bankrupt. They?ll also want a manager who can at least give their fans the impression that they?re competing, on most occasions, particularly now that Uefa?s new financial regulations are being applied to those clubs wanting European competition. Not attempting to comply would be like not applying for a European licence before the season, a sure indication of no ambition.
Last week, just about every media outlet in the country carried stories on how successful Moyes has been over the last 10 years, and, with all the predictability of Punxsutawney Phil emerging from a tough winter hibernation in Gobblers Knob, Bill Kenwright, after months of silence, suddenly attaches himself to a good news story and shows up in all the usual places.
This exposure has been driven by Everton?s PR department. They are the source of all the press releases to the media over the past week ? and not just on Moyes; we?ve had Nike, Tim Howard signing a new contract, the Inner Circle link-up and Bill telling the world of nine interested parties.
After a lifetime of cynically following Everton?s PR stunts (I won?t name them as I haven?t the time), a few reasons readily spring to mind as to why Everton have a real need to appeal to the fans' hearts instead of their minds at this moment in time.
Firstly we have to shift a load of season tickets before the end of the financial year, a fact reinforced by the timely arrival yesterday morning of my early bird pack. How good a mood I would have been in if we had drilled one of the worst Liverpool teams in recent history and how readily I would have signed up.
Secondly, the fans have become restless since the summer and Bill Kenwright needs to be attached to a story which deflects from his own truly appalling performance as chairman.
Finally, and probably most genuinely of all, David Moyes has been a loyal servant of the club who, despite Bill Kenwright, not because of him, despite him has brought stability to the club, even if it is in the form of mediocrity. The saddest thing of all is that this list is probably accurate in terms of priority set by Everton?s PR department.
If I?m honest I can take or leave David Moyes and I think a lot of Evertonians feel the same way. I?m neither a fan of certain aspects of his game nor a critic of certain results he manages to obtain from clubs with more money than the Greek economy and debt to match.
He is what he is: functional, hardworking, practical but ultimately conservative by nature... which leads to the inevitable roller-coaster ride of results. For every Chelsea, Spurs or Man City there?s a Sporting CP, Dinamo Bucharest or Liverpool, there?s an inexplicable inability to perform at the start of the season and an equally baffling inability to execute games against allegedly inferior clubs.
Functional, hardworking, practical and conservative ? these are the same qualities that have become a trademark of his teams over the past decade and they?re the same qualities that tell me he?ll never get offered a job at Spurs, Chelsea or United because, with the money they have to spend, they have no need for a safe pair of hands, someone who will grind out a draw or a narrow victory, or someone who simply accepts what he?s given from his chairman ? who in Keenwright's case regards Moyes?s ability to deliver something from nothing, and his own inability to deliver anything, as a match made in heaven.
Looking at football's proven winners, such as Ferguson, Mourinho or even Benitez (who actually won four trophies at LFC during his six-year tenure), do you think any of them would accept the sale of almost £40m of assets in the form of Pienaar, Gosling, Jutkiewicz, Ruddy, Akpan, Vaughan, Dobie, Agard, Beckford, Arteta, Yakubu, Bilyaletdinov, Saha, various loan fees, the proceeds from the sale of Bellefield and let?s not forget almost £20m savings in wages, with just £2m returned to the manager to fund the purchase of Gibson and Jelavic?
Do you think those winners would put up with that miserly amount and scraping around in the loan market? Come to think of it, do you think that the FANS of Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool would put up with all that money coming in, nothing going out, and performances like Tuesday night?
My honest opinion is that Moyes could do better and we could also probably do much worse considering what the club has to offer a manager. I suppose it?s a nice enough balance for a club with no money, but ultimately it?s a recipe for mediocrity which, after years of winning nothing, a lot of our fans now readily accept in place of real success: mid-table is where we are and apparently we should be thankful.
Success of course is always relative. Manchester Utd are successful when they win the league but, when they come second, they see this as failure... whilst for some, David Moyes winning nothing and an average finishing position of 8th is seen as successful because we?re no longer expected to win.
It?s easy just to point at the trophy cabinet and say that?s the only real measure of a manager?s success but ask any number of neutral fans up and down the country to name the Premier League's most successful clubs and Everton are unlikely to spring to mind. As a fan of the fourth most successful club in the country, it?s hard for me to accept that and accept that Everton are about to surpass their previous record barren spell in the top division without winning a major trophy and yet I?m being told by our PR department that our manager is a success?
I know Moyes has won the League Manager of the Year award on three occasions, but let?s be honest, when you look at some of the other recipients, excluding Fergie and Wenger, it?s a list of losers. It?s the Premier League trophy winners, predominantly Fergie, Wenger and The Special One, who appear to have been awarded the LMA honour on merit rather than on any other criteria, and of course Moyes has never won that trophy.
Where Moyes has been successful is in steadying the ship. When he arrived a decade ago, we were perennial relegation fodder on the pitch and in a mess off it. Within just two seasons, he discovered just how much of a mess we were in: a massive £30m loan against the stadium to consolidate debt, war in the boardroom, EGMs, further desperate loans from Singer & Friedlander and the sale of arguably the greatest talent ever to emerge from the academy, which was done to save the club, according to Moyes in the Irish Independent.
All this and more had to be endured by Moyes as he changed the team and the whole work ethos of the playing staff... but ? while there?s no denying he?s moved us further up the table, away from relegation and tantalisingly close to success ? off the pitch, we?re not only still in a mess, it?s fair to say we?re in an even greater mess now than we were then; so what really grates is this love-in between Moyes and Kenwright, it?s a real mutual admiration society.
Despite what Moyes says about the support from the chairman, it?s almost non-existent; his achievements have been delivered on a spend of less than £2.5 million a year ? in an era of record turnover and having to sell all those players, not just to balance the books but stave off disaster. Are we really expected to believe that every time the wolf is at the door, Moyes goes to Kenwright and tells him that he can sell a load of players to keep the creditors happy? Or would it be more believable the other way around?
Of course our CEO will tell you otherwise, but ToffeeWeb is a great source of information because it has people writing for it who don?t just offer an opinion, they back it up with facts. While our CEO talks of a net spend of £35m over the past 5 years, I learnt that this figure included £11m spent on players last year when we didn?t buy a soul, I?ve also learned that this figure represents phased payments for players already on the staff, which the CEO conveniently forgot to say.
I also learned on Saturday that whilst Bellefield and Netherton cost £8,000 a day to run, same as the running cost of Liverpool?s academy, Finch Farm costs £38,000 a day to run ? according to our CEO, when he says 85p in the pound is spent on Finch Farm. £38k a day? ? you?ve got to be joking.
No wonder we have no money and have to sell off players... but a question I have is regarding this extra money from players and the sale of Bellefield: it isn?t included in the turnover, so where does it go? And where does all that money supposedly spent on Finch Farm go?
It?s a huge sum and I?m not saying the directors are syphoning it off but it?s not being used to reduce the debt ? the debt is exactly the same as the year before ? and it?s not being used on the pitch. I?m honestly beginning to think that the taxman, like at Utd and Chelsea, has demanded a huge sum of money from us, I can?t think of any other legitimate answer.
One thing I do believe is that, whilst the love-in between Moyes and Kenwright continues, we?re in for another 10 years of nothing, so I hope Bill isn?t conning the fans with bringing in these specialists from America to sell the club and these nine interested parties. When it?s written down and you read it, do you feel the same as me? My heart?s wishing that it?s true but my mind is telling me that it?s just another cheap trick.
Reader Comments (52)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
2 Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:54:12
Not to mention fortress funds/kings dock/9 mill stadium refurbs/Kirkby/Finch Farm debacle/we don't own the car park/countless sold and side-swiped players monies/The Rooney-Walter Smith 4th protocol memorandums/e-mail gate/failed theatrical productions/new theatrical productions/new buyers/
Banned AGMs.....and yet more.
Moyes....He's just 'Smithers'.
3 Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:39:41
My two kids went into primary school yesterday and when I dropped them off I had a feeling of genuine despair as to what they had been subjected to the night before watching that gutless team selection and performance against Liverpool.
4 Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:03:37
There are lots of very poignant mentions in your article which resonate with every Everton fan and there is much to be disappointed about.
Another point I find difficult to comprehend is how our CEO "conveniently forgot to say" about the phased payments for existing players? I consider it more likely that you forgot most clubs phase payments for players and that Everton are no different.
We've had a lot of posts covering very similar ground in trying rightly, to make sense of the goings on at Goodison Park yet some very bizarre attributions.
No, Kenwright hasn't done himself proud and yes, he should sell up - but let's not blame him for the sky being blue on a clear day.
5 Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:00:13
Many supporters still refer to those grim times even now, and tell anyone with ambition for the team to be grateful we are still in the top flight.
They forget we are one of the seven ever-presents in the current Premier League, and the riches that has brought to the club.
We all know we have missed the boat, we have only had a short term plan since day one. The Chairman is a relative pauper, and anyone involved in the club refuses to invest.
Be happy with your place Evertonians, as long as we have the chance to be in the same League as Liverpool, we should be content with our lot.
6 Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:23:21
One day when the truth comes out I wouldn't be at all surprised if shifty practice benefiting BK and chums is revealed.
Granted the tax debt seems plausible but in the current climate where Portsmouth, Rangers etc are falling to the tax man why not reveal if this is the case. It would be a massive boil lanced.
7 Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:36:50
The maths are straight forward. It was explained to me like this. 85% of £82m is £70m. 97% of the wages are spent on players, £56m, this leaves £14m. Divide that by 365 and that?s??.
Our CEO said Moyes has had £35m to spend over the past five years, he hasn?t, but the club has spent £35m according to the accounts. I put it in as an example of the spin the fans have to put up with. According to Sky Moyes has had just £2.5m a season from an era of record turnover.
8 Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:44:08
9 Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:18:09
At the same time this was possibly not a good time to post this excellent critique.
It tends to deflect us from the immediate target of our criticism and anger. Kenwright deserves much blame yet under his stewardship we have a squad of players good enough to go to Anfield with an excellent chance of reversing 11 years of embarrassment.
That golden opportunity was not snatched from us by Gerards goals. They were merely the end result of what happened well before kick off.
Before a ball was kicked the coward in our dug out destroyed any chance we might have had.
I have reached the point where a win or loss against the Black Cats matters little. The only consolation I would get from a loss would be if the tannoy announced there was a taxi waiting for a certain Mr Moyes.
10 Posted 15/03/2012 at 23:02:34
11 Posted 16/03/2012 at 01:54:47
I think I remember reading that "Finch Farm" refers to player salaries in addition to operating costs. That came from Elstone's blog, though so I, for one, am not going to go back through that garbage and validate that.
Those are my criticisms but all in all, a good article outlining some very real criticisms of the current heirarchy at the club.
12 Posted 16/03/2012 at 10:17:48
This is the problem in a nutshell. What most of us now see as Moyes flaws - conservatism, negativity of tactics - are the very things that have steadied the ship on the field. Now, as others have pointed out, we've reached a stage where Moyes team's best performances always come when their backs are against the wall. As soon as expectations are raised - results suffer. I think it's important not to lose sight of the fact Moyes raised us to the point where we CAN expect - no amount of name-calling will change that - but now he has to follow through on his promise and find a way to make a team perform when the burden of expectation is on them.
And he needs to realise that a result against Liverpool is ALWAYS a good result.
13 Posted 16/03/2012 at 10:39:34
14 Posted 16/03/2012 at 10:30:55
My question regarding the £38,000 is, does that include player salaries? If it's £3500 for rent, that leaves £34500 per day, times by 7 is £241500 a week. I guess we'd be paying slightly higher than that on wages wouldn't we, plus you'd have to figure in running costs of the joint.
If £38000 is just the running costs, then the people in charge of this need to go back and learn about cost relating to product.
15 Posted 16/03/2012 at 11:00:23
16 Posted 16/03/2012 at 11:13:44
17 Posted 16/03/2012 at 11:00:47
18 Posted 16/03/2012 at 12:36:31
19 Posted 16/03/2012 at 12:33:31
"Our CEO said Moyes has had £35m to spend over the past five years, he hasn?t, but the club has spent £35m according to the accounts. I put it in as an example of the spin the fans have to put up with. According to Sky Moyes has had just £2.5m a season from an era of record turnover."
I think you're mixing up two very different issues here.
#1 Existing players who Everton have agreed to purchase on a phased basis which impacts future expenses.
#2 The Board/Kenwright spouting figures which bare no relation or may not even exist 6 months down the line.
During the summer when we sold Arteta Kenwright said Moyes would have 'X' amount, come January and that cash is no longer available and, realistically, may never have been.
If Kenwright stated Moyes would have £35m but ommitted to state existing on-going contract fulfillments would included, it was a misleading statement (now there's a first!!) as it would not be truly available.
21 Posted 17/03/2012 at 08:46:52
The biggest difficulty is finding a way through the `spin` that emanates from the PR department. There are many faithfuls (and I used to be one!) who believe every word and an ever increasing number who believe nowt.
My read on the situation is that Elstone & Co have done an excellent job of selling Kenwright and Moyes TO THE MEDIA... but, for those of us who live and breathe Everton, the reality is far different.
Over his years on the Board, Kenwright has learned nothing and achieved even less. He has taken the fans for fools although, at times, he comes over as an idiot himself. The light shone through for me when he actually admitted he did not understand the club`s accounts. A dunderhead or a liar? Probably both!
Moyes is of a different stamp. I see him as an honest and straightforward guy whose ability to show his true worth as coach and manager is severely limited by the quality of the players he has to work with.
His sin? To buy into (or sell his soul?) to the Kenwright dream that success should be judged by survival in the Prem whilst awaiting the arrival of that magical `investor` to provide the wherewithal to make him a very rich man and restore the Club to the one he knew as a boy... In that order!
Meanwhile, we can expect much of the same old same old. Some, like me, who have NEVER known glory, will continue to hope `that something will turn up` and that Moyes can, at least, keep us stable... whilst others will continue to scream for change on all fronts without having a scoobie how that can be achieved.
22 Posted 17/03/2012 at 09:41:16
23 Posted 17/03/2012 at 09:52:50
24 Posted 17/03/2012 at 09:56:38
25 Posted 17/03/2012 at 09:51:49
People probably get bored of me rambling about the 4-1 Sunderland game, the Goal of the Month that Month, but we all have dreams and I hope a few can be written today. Roman, "I only", nonsense, obviously in your writings on here you are a passionate supporter and good luck to you, I hope that for all those around like you who truly love Everton Football Club that today is a very special day.
Got to go now, the Grolsch in the Winslow is calling and the Blue Dragon seems to have my Chips and Curry sause (extra vinegar please) bubbling up.
26 Posted 17/03/2012 at 10:11:22
You sound like your dad !
27 Posted 17/03/2012 at 10:13:02
28 Posted 17/03/2012 at 10:16:19
97% of 70 is 68 leaving 2 million to divide by 365.
Or did you mis-type 79% ??
29 Posted 17/03/2012 at 10:13:09
Does anyone know how much Fellaini is paid? Or even how it is paid? Weekly, monthly ? offshore trust fund, current account? Of course not. But his agent, accountant, advisor or whoever will be negotiating his new contract on the basis that 'the going rate' is this or that and this club or that club have been in touch and will be prepared to offer whatever figure they can make up in their head.
It doesn't help that the manager has, apparantly, made himself the 12th highest paid in the world and then makes a public statement that footballers should take a 20% pay cut. It is not just Rangers who are in a financial pickle, in my opinion they are one of many and the biggest factor in their demise is wages. Everton should take a leaf out of Arsenal's book, make a player a decent offer, if they hold out for more then sell them for a decent profit ? can you hear me, Ashley Cole?
30 Posted 17/03/2012 at 10:09:47
In those days you didn't even need massive amounts of money to succeed - Wolves, with Man Utd, were one of the two top sides in the country and teams like Blackpool, Burnley and Huddersfield regularly did well in the First Division. But we couldn't even manage that until the Moores money enabled us to buy every decent player who became available in the 60s.
So, why do I refer to those sepia-tinted days? To remind everyone that our history has only sporadically been glorious and that we don't have a divine right to be successful, much as I wish we did. We regularly flirted with relegation in the 50s (were actually relegated in 1951 though, mercifully, I don't remember that far back) and had low expectations until John Moores arrived. I don't know if the Board had any money but, if they did, they certainly didn't spend it despite our having attendances that were regularly among the highest in the country at a time when most of a club's income came from gate receipts.
The 1950s were much, much more of a level playing field in financial terms than is the case today yet the situation for us was far worse in playing terms, with an ageing squad of honest, decent journeymen and the only replacements those who came up through the reserves and junior teams or the occasional cast-off from a more successful club. It wasn't only the 90s that were depressing and we did, at least, win the Cup in '95.
The point of this historical digression is that, relative to our history as a whole, we're not doing too badly now, despite the massive disparity between our resources and those of the "elite" with whom we're expected to compete. I know that people will say he's another one making the "lack of resources excuse" but it does happen to be true.
I don't have much confidence in Bill Kenwright and the Board, though I don't believe that they're the self-serving villains that many posters on Toffeeweb make them out to be. I think that Kenwright is out of his depth both financially and professionally as far as chairing a major football club is concerned and that he does his best, as a skilled actor, to conceal this. There are credible reasons - need for new ground, current levels of debt, demographics of Merseyside with the RS already the global brand, unrealistic price being sought - why all efforts to find a buyer have so far failed, but that doesn't mean that they're lying when they say that those efforts are being made, whatever the conspiracy theorists say.
As for David Moyes, let's not blame him for the inadequacy of the financial backing he receives. He may not be the best manager in the country and sometimes gets it wrong (who doesn't?)but he's certainly among the best and has those rare qualities in football today of decency, honesty and loyalty. He deserves better than to be accused of staying only because he's well paid/no one else would have him/being complicit in the Board's failings, etc.
31 Posted 17/03/2012 at 10:42:26
By looking at the Everton transfers during his 10 year spell, he has spent 114m on players - thats an average of 11.4m a year! (Excluding signing on and loan fees).
Or are you talking about the mythical 'net spend' figure here? If so, please note that practically all clubs sell to spend (e.g. about 85% of the cash Redknapp has spent at spurs has come from player sales, RS had 50m from Torres, Villa got loads of cash from sales of Downing, Barry, Young etc).
Also Jelavic cost us 5.5m so how do you get Moyes only being given 2m to spend in Jan?
Moyes has had money to spend, jjust because it didn't come from BK does not change this fact.
32 Posted 17/03/2012 at 11:20:11
Naturally, more funds could have been generated from player sales (e.g. Jagielka to Arsenal last summer etc).
33 Posted 17/03/2012 at 11:08:49
I don't go back as far as the 50s but the 60s yes.
You refer to global brand liverpool but omit to ask why.
Like Manchester United they were born of one man's indomitable spirit, courage and vision and this is the crux of it defying the odds is what seperates the great from the ordinary.
Shankly and Busby were such men and Moyes is not.
Do we look for someone who might aspire to such derring do like Newcastle when reborn via Keegan or stick with the obscurity of what we know?
For all the trials and tribulations following Keegan Mk1 demise there isn't a Geordie I know who regrets his attempt at glory.
34 Posted 17/03/2012 at 11:20:11
Naturally, more funds could have been generated from player sales (e.g. Jagielka to Arsenal last summer etc).
35 Posted 17/03/2012 at 11:58:56
£114m in ten years is a pittance. We have been outspent by almost every club, and certainly every medium to large club. The net spend figures are important as they can represent net investment in the team. If quality leaves at a greater rate than it is added then there can be only one outcome. In recent seasons that has been only too evident. Yes, several clubs have sold to rebuild.... few have sold and reinvested only a fraction of the money received..... and none have sold just to survive (except rangers and pompey). LFC have spent as much in one close season as we have in 10yrs..... are they really 10 times bigger than us? Moyes has certainly made mistakes, but let's not forget the real reasons for our clubs inability to compete.....
36 Posted 17/03/2012 at 12:10:21
37 Posted 17/03/2012 at 12:08:02
I think the difference between Busby and Shankly in the 50s and 60s and Moyes in the last ten years is that they had a more or less level financial playing field on which to build. I respect and admire what they achieved but it wasn't against a backdrop of a few billionaire owned rival clubs who could buy up the best talent in the world and afford to have some of them sitting on the bench. I doubt very much if either of them could have achieved what they did today without massive financial backing.
As for Kevin Keegan at Newcastle, yes, the ride was great while it lasted but he didn't actually win anything and they've been relegated since his time. Would we prefer that?
38 Posted 17/03/2012 at 15:12:54
My main point was that, although agreeing with most of the article, I get annoyed when I constantly hear/read the usual mantra of Moyes having had no money, its simply bollocks.
Lets look at the facts. For the the period 2003-2011, and looking at the current 20 teams in the Premier League, Everton on gross transfer spending, have spent more money than the following clubs;
Bolton, Stoke, Wolves, Fulham, QPR, WBA, Swansea, Norwich, Wigan, Blackburn ? ie, we have spent more money on transfers than HALF of the current Premier League. How exactly is that a pittance? We lie in 9th place out of 20 on spending.
Now you'll probably wheel out the 'net spend' mantra. Well in this same time period, the following clubs have a NEGATIVE net spend (ie, have spent less on transfers than they received on selling players): Arsenal, Wigan, Blackburn.
Everton's 'net spend' was £15M for this same time period (ie, Moyes has spent £15M more than the club received in transfer revenue). Other clubs that had a positive net spend but less than £15M for the same period: Swansea, Newcastle, Norwich. So we spent more (gross) than 10 other teams and had a net spend higher than 6 other teams. So, whichever way you look at it, our league position on transfers alone should be somewhere between 9th and 14th. (Let's ignore the fact that our average wage bill is in the top half for now......)
So, coming back to my point: yes, Moyes has not had cash like Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City but saying that he has had no or very little cash to spend, is clearly not true. The amount he has been given is not enough to aim for the CL places but is certainly enough for Everton to consistently aim for the top half of the table and not be involved in any relegation fight.
Could he have been given more if BK and his chums ran the club better? Most certainly. But this excuse that Moyes is doing a fantastic job on fuck-all money is total and utter bollocks. He did very well when we finished 4th-6th but any decent manager should at least be getting into the top half with the cash he has been given.
He has had money.
39 Posted 17/03/2012 at 19:45:38
40 Posted 17/03/2012 at 19:48:57
Yes £114M is a pittance. This lot have turned us into a nothing club... ready to be consigned to Sheff Wed status. Moyes has kept us afloat.
41 Posted 17/03/2012 at 20:04:28
I live in Rotherham and our nearest 'big club' is Sheffield Wednesday. Now they are the most deluded fans I have ever come across who believe they just belong in the top flight. I hate them; however, I also don't gloat because I look at them and I see what Everton could have been but for some very close calls in the nineties.
David Moyes has delivered us away from that and I will always be thankful to him for it but I think over the last few years he has become too comfortable, complacent even... and Tuesday night he made the biggest mistake of his Everton career. One day, he will look back and realise he let the fans down massively.
42 Posted 17/03/2012 at 20:33:08
Carry on ignoring the fact that Moyes has spent more money than half the current Premier League if you really want to. At the end of the day, he has not been given Man Utd or Chelsea type cash, but saying he has had fuck-all to spend is simply not true.
Would suggest you do some research.....
43 Posted 17/03/2012 at 20:50:09
Maybe Moyes HAS taken us as far as we can go, but my fear is if we swap him for someone else, where will be be? I remember the hopes we had when Bayern Munich-slayer Mike Walker arrived!!!! What if we gamble and lose (as Moyes himself did on Tuesday!)?
As for where we are and whether we should settle for it. I look at Villa and consider we're doing OK. I tend to think they are more of a like stature to EFC (certainly closer than Sunderland, as suggested by a stupid TV commentator today). They too are founder members of both the Football League and the Premier League. They have tasted REAL glory (a double and a European Cup) and, in Villa Park have a true temple of football (it was the first ground anywhere in the world to host an international match in three different centuries). Indeed, when I was growing up, like EFC, Villa were always one of the "big five". I think, compared to them, we do ok, and have done in recent times. Both clubs deserve better, perhaps, both are just jolly pleased to maintain their Premier League status.
Villa fans got what they wanted ? shut of 'Deadly Doug' and replaced by a rich (allegedly) Yank ? and they got the manager many fans covet, Martin O'Neill. But it didn't really work out for them, did it.....
We have a poor 'Luvvie' and a dour Scot, but we seem to be doing better than Villa.
44 Posted 17/03/2012 at 21:19:10
How much are the Wolves builders getting paid to do their stand this year?? It looks okay to me...
45 Posted 17/03/2012 at 21:22:10
46 Posted 17/03/2012 at 21:09:11
Excellent piece, I've been waiting for someone to put some meat on this "bone" of contention.
Like you, I realise Moyes hasn't had top 4 money but equally he hasn't been as bereft of funds as the legend suggests.
I've always railed against the 'miracle worker' tag; he's been more or less where finances dictate and ? allied to the unparalleled 10-year tenure ? it strikes me as an unthinking media line.
Well done.
47 Posted 17/03/2012 at 21:57:11
A stand for future Evertonians could be his final legacy... and then he could 'do one'.
48 Posted 17/03/2012 at 23:09:36
Check our net spend against other clubs with smaller fanbases than ours... try your research quip then. Some of us are busy attending games.
49 Posted 17/03/2012 at 23:18:38
This board have done the least of any board to grow their club. No stadium development whatsoever; no commercial development..... nothing delivered! Consequently, tiny net spend over the whole period.... particularly in recent years.
These are the basic facts requiring very little research, tbh.
50 Posted 17/03/2012 at 23:42:47
51 Posted 18/03/2012 at 09:25:17
The period 2003-2011 covers his current tenure. If you want to go down the road of ignoring some of his earlier years and only focus on the recent period, then obviously he has had less as he only spent about £7m in th last 18 months. However, 95% of our squad was not bought in the last 18 months so you cannot just chose the years that back up what you want to say.
Fellaini, Baines, Distin, Hetinga, Jagielka, Howard, Neville, Jelavic etc did not come for free. (Nevermind the likes of Beattie, Johnson, Krøldrup, Davies, Yakubu, Lescott, Bily, VdM... etc from before). He has had money to spend, just relatively little in the last 18 months.
Sticking by your Stoke example and starting from 2006 as you do, actually Stoke did not 'massively' outspend us. We have coincidentlally spent exactly the same amount of money on transfers during this period ? about £73m. From 2006-2009 we spent more than them, they have only outspent us from 2010.
I wont spend anymore time on this, you can see the figures for youself (whichever year(s) you want to choose) at:
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html
52 Posted 18/03/2012 at 14:51:34
Eric, the maths are sound mate, you?re just getting the numbers mixed up.
Our turnover for 2011 was £82m. 85% of that figure, the 85p in the pound Elstone says is spent on Finch Farm, is £70m, this is the total the club claim to spend on Finch Farm and includes wages, operating costs and lease costs. The club?s total wage bill is £58m ? I think it?s a fair assumption that 97% of that figure, £56m, is attributable to staff costs linked to Finch Farm. Subtracting £56m from £70m then dividing the sum (£14m) by 365 gives you £38,000 a day. The lease costs of £3,000 a day are included in this figure. Â
97% of the wages is an assumption, but I think it?s a fair assumption. If it?s less, the £56m wage figure decreases and then the running costs become even higher as they will always be a percentage of the £70m figure fixed by Robert Elstone in his 85p statement.
I believe the claim that it doesn?t cost £38,000 a day to run a field and a building, a claim based on the fact that Liverpool?s academy costs £8,000 a day to run and two fields and two buildings, Bellefield and Netherton, together cost the same, £8,000 a day to run. Everton appear desperate to explain and appear transparent but in doing so make me even more suspicious.
Anthony, it?s not about what Kenwright says, I don?t think anyone listens to a word he actually says anyway; he's the chairman, Elstone is the CEO. The £35m was a retrospective statement regarding the net sum that Robert Elstone said has been given to Moyes over the past five years. I'm told by those who know that, if you add up the spend on players in the cashflow statement section of the accounts, you'll arrive at this figure.
It?s just another example of the spin and the double-speak we get from the club, as the figure includes over £11m from last year?s accounts when we clearly didn?t buy anyone. I don?t know about you, but I?m interested in where we are now and whilst the CLUB spent over £11m on players last year, MOYES didn?t and it?s about time he grew a pair and started saying in public what he says privately instead of going along with all the PR stunts about Bill being a wonderful chairman.
Bill once told me of a statement that Moyes refused to release which would have taken the pressure off Bill. Bill proudly told me that Moyes said he didn?t need to do it as fans knew he was a good chairman. I just think Moyes left him out to dry.
Where do the numbers on the transfer spend come from? I don?t use that league transfer site everyone talks about, its rubbish: too many errors. I take the stuff from Sky and they get their info from the clubs and their own experts. Here?s the screenshot from the Sky lovefest on Moyes last week.
https://twitter.com/#!/OSSSecurity/status/179289926817419265/photo/1
I haven?t a problem with using the net spend figure and I haven?t a problem with selling players, whilst they wear blue they?re there for the benefit of the club and nothing else, either on the pitch or when being sold, a situation that they?re paid tremendous amounts of money for. As long as we sell for the betterment of the club, then so be it; when we?re selling to cover up the ineptitude of the board, then that?s another matter.
I?ve used the figure for Jelavic, £1.5m; if Elstone wants to use the figures that go through the cash-flow statement, then so can I. Everton made an initial payment of £1.5m for Jelavic and they paid £500k for Gibson. Of course it works both ways, I listed all the players and other disposals that amounted to £40m and not all of that has come in yet either.
The point is that more is coming in than is being spent on the pitch; as a football club, this is where we conduct out business and it?s beginning to show, if you get what I mean.
53 Posted 18/03/2012 at 14:56:08
I've posted before that we have the basics at this club to do better and that Moyes's coaching style is dour and defensive, regardless of the talent at his disposal. The point is well made throughout this thread that, whilst not being swamped with funds, we have had a fair amount of money available, more than most. However, Moyes still fails to deliver a decent brand and style of football, and ultimately, silverware.
Just imagine how much time he has with the squad to work on playing football. Something is very wrong and in my opinion it is the coaching. Also, I'm bemused when posters cite failed examples of other managers (Keegan at Newcastle) who have tried to play good football and unfortunately failed, as a reason for us to stick with Moyes and be thankful he has kept us in the Prem.
Winning things and God forbid, playing good football, and remaining in the Prem, are not mutually exclusive. We can do both, we just need a manager with a positive, footballing mentality. There are plenty of them out there just waiting for a chance.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.
1 Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:09:45
In fact I'm starting to think its a conspiracy between the media and other clubs to keep the Moyes/Kenwright duo in charge to guarantee that we never win anything under them.
Jeez, Liverpool fans love Moyes being in charge, they were chanting "10 more years" at Derbygate.