Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Alakazam!
69 Comments: This mail may end up being appended to one of the various threads now set up on TW to deal with the fallout from the Blue Union meeting with the Dear Leader last Friday.
However, what has become increasingly clear today and leading (hopefully) into the weekend, is that the BU / BK meeting has had the desired effect; namely the national press are picking up on the story and we have the forum and coverage so many have been wanting.
Where the momentum now takes us is anyone's guess. It may just fizzle out after a few wins on the field, or it may continue to combust off the back of another poor start to a season, or the selling of one or more of our better players for what we now know will be to clear financial debt.
The Board's reaction to the publication of extracts from that Friday meeting on one hand beggars belief, yet at the same time comes as no surprise, given their previous track record. BK's best bet would have been to say nothing. Instead he digs his grave deeper with self-obvious platitudes about the state of the world economy; on a day when QPR find a new owner and when in recent times two other Clubs also changed hands for significant sums.
The ultimate sin, however, has been the threat to take legal action against the Blue Union and "websites"; in other words, to take action against supporters of the Club ? the very people BK purports to represent. I would not be surprised if this ill-advised tactic is followed up in the next few days with other attacks from within the Goodison fortress. Alienation from the fanbase is virtually complete.
With foot firmly in mouth, Billy Liar has managed to make an even greater arse of himself than I thought was imaginable (having read the transcript of the Friday meeting).
He has one final lesson to learn from this miserable saga: once the genie is out of the bottle, it's impossible to get it back in.
Steve Guy, Posted 19/08/2011 at 23:07:52
Comments
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To think you can go in a meeting with an experienced media person and get the advantage in the press is naive.
To tape this meeting without permission, on the back of the whole News of the World-scandal, is downright stupid.
To tape this meeting without permission, on the back of the whole News of the World-scandal, is downright stupid.
To quote an old Arab saying,
The dogs may bark yet the caravan moves on. For the life of me I do not see what good came from that meeting.
The BU was fobbed of on the single most important question.
Where does that 20 mil go.
To secretly record proceedings was foolish and wrong and certainly not something I would endorse.
Whatever interpretation is taken I very much doubt there is a club president anywhere in the world or in any sport that would agree to that kind of cross examination from non share holders.
The dogs may bark yet the caravan moves on. For the life of me I do not see what good came from that meeting.
The BU was fobbed of on the single most important question.
Where does that 20 mil go.
To secretly record proceedings was foolish and wrong and certainly not something I would endorse.
Whatever interpretation is taken I very much doubt there is a club president anywhere in the world or in any sport that would agree to that kind of cross examination from non share holders.
The difference Eric, is that the News of the World were taping meetings that they were never invited to.
Most national media outlets (with their natural London-bias) are taking the bit from Bill about having to sell to buy, and using that as a siren call for Arsenal to go for Baines and Jagielka.
We're paying the price for being a dull, middle of the road club irrelevant to all but its own supporters.
We're paying the price for being a dull, middle of the road club irrelevant to all but its own supporters.
What sticks out to me is why the bank is (seemingly to me) particularly calling for Everton to service the debt. I hear that other clubs have much more massive debts, so why aren't these other clubs being put under the same pressure to clear off these debts!? Why just Everton?
Media organisations need to be very careful about their use of terms such as delusional and out of their depth as the context of this would lend itself to a law suite on the grounds of defamation of character or slander and as the interpretation is subjective and not a simple case of facts being presented then they have probablt gone for the safe option of publishing BK's bank quotes.
Investigative journalism would hope to seek a response to the other operational costs rise but unless that is discussed at length which the interview didnt really do they go for the path of least resistance and ignore it.
The meeting has had the desired effect in that it will have pricked up the ears of the fence sitters and denial merchants and BK will be very uncomfortable about attending the QPR game, I expect a high rate of steward presence at the game and heavy policing of the anti banner type to go on, if anyone does get any trouble with the police over any banners at the game ensure you ask what their collar number and they deem the problem is as the laws on this are very clear, stewards can intervene but the police can only operate within the laws of the land - http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/public_order_offences/ if the banners don't contravene these guidelines the police and CPS have no case
Investigative journalism would hope to seek a response to the other operational costs rise but unless that is discussed at length which the interview didnt really do they go for the path of least resistance and ignore it.
The meeting has had the desired effect in that it will have pricked up the ears of the fence sitters and denial merchants and BK will be very uncomfortable about attending the QPR game, I expect a high rate of steward presence at the game and heavy policing of the anti banner type to go on, if anyone does get any trouble with the police over any banners at the game ensure you ask what their collar number and they deem the problem is as the laws on this are very clear, stewards can intervene but the police can only operate within the laws of the land - http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/public_order_offences/ if the banners don't contravene these guidelines the police and CPS have no case
James (no #4) I did not intend to say they were doing the same as News of the World, merely that the public opinion on unasked taping of meetings is very negative at this moment and will ruin all chances of having any impact IMHO. They gave BK a stick to hit them with.
I think this Blue Union "coup" may well backfire!
The over riding impression I am getting from the radio reporting is that Bill was refreshingly honest and Everton are skint. Full stop.
No-one is aying Bill was inept or indiscreet which I think he was.
It also alerts all other clubs to our need (desperation) to "trade" as Bill stated.
As much as I wanted answers in retrospect I think silence was probably the best tactic by the club and that Bill has underlined his naiveness in opening up in this way.
I presonally learned nothing new from this episode apart from "if you've nothing positive to say, say nowt!"
The over riding impression I am getting from the radio reporting is that Bill was refreshingly honest and Everton are skint. Full stop.
No-one is aying Bill was inept or indiscreet which I think he was.
It also alerts all other clubs to our need (desperation) to "trade" as Bill stated.
As much as I wanted answers in retrospect I think silence was probably the best tactic by the club and that Bill has underlined his naiveness in opening up in this way.
I presonally learned nothing new from this episode apart from "if you've nothing positive to say, say nowt!"
For my money, taping the meeting was one thing, publishing a verbatim transcript is another: the lads should've had a bit of nouse to take lots of notes and not publish word for word.
But saying that, this is a major step forward and I applaud them for the interview , because for me so much is at stake. It demonstrates how unsuitable Bill is, and it also suggests that he, or his Spurs-supporting confederates, are pricing Everton out of a sale, which is why we can't find a suitable buyer.
Marcus at 6 asks why the banks are calling in our debts more vigorously than other clubs. My guess is that they look at our income streams and are concerned that we don't have enough coming in to service our debts.
But saying that, this is a major step forward and I applaud them for the interview , because for me so much is at stake. It demonstrates how unsuitable Bill is, and it also suggests that he, or his Spurs-supporting confederates, are pricing Everton out of a sale, which is why we can't find a suitable buyer.
Marcus at 6 asks why the banks are calling in our debts more vigorously than other clubs. My guess is that they look at our income streams and are concerned that we don't have enough coming in to service our debts.
Mark at 9 - All fair enough but if the realisation/admission is there that we are skint, my own reaction is then to ask why we are skint, and what we can do about it.
I want BK out because he just doesn't seem to have the vision or ideas or imagination to get us out of the mess, a mess that over the last decade and more he has presided over the making of.
Unless of course the possibility is true that he is not pulling the strings, as I suggest above.
I want BK out because he just doesn't seem to have the vision or ideas or imagination to get us out of the mess, a mess that over the last decade and more he has presided over the making of.
Unless of course the possibility is true that he is not pulling the strings, as I suggest above.
I thought that the meeting with Kenwright was private - why then was it taped ? I am getting pissed off with holier than thou posts from angry Evertonians who take any and every opportunuiy to slag off Kenwright - presumably you all condone the taping of this so called private meeting.
I am neither pro or anti Kenwright but neither am I in favour of the Blue Union if this is the kind of underhand tactics that they wish to adopt.
You slag Kenwright off for being underhand and then use underhand tactics yourselves - in my opinion you are no better than he is.
I am neither pro or anti Kenwright but neither am I in favour of the Blue Union if this is the kind of underhand tactics that they wish to adopt.
You slag Kenwright off for being underhand and then use underhand tactics yourselves - in my opinion you are no better than he is.
In my opinion, he's a horrible man... Below that luvvie exterior there's a self serving vicious git lurking...
I don't agree with the platitudes that say "He's a nice man... but' ? in my opinion, he's nothing of the sort...
Short tempered, dismissive, petulant and arrogant.
That's the genie out of the bottle for me..
I don't agree with the platitudes that say "He's a nice man... but' ? in my opinion, he's nothing of the sort...
Short tempered, dismissive, petulant and arrogant.
That's the genie out of the bottle for me..
I?m amazed some people on here once again fall for the spin put out by the same people who told you that money was ringfenced, that Everton were getting £50m off Tesco and now tell you that a meeting was taped.
Have you not read the interview? Did Bill not tell the guys, on several occasions, to ?write this down?? After the meeting didn?t they issue a statement which told the whole online community that a full report on the meeting would follow?
Where?s the promised threat of legal action? I?ll tell you where it is, it?s disappeared because all of what they?re claiming is unadulterated shite.
What you should be really concerned at is the contents of that report and the statement, particularly the statement, which tells me they?ve been leaked a copy of the clubs next accounts.
What should be of greater concern however is that Bill Kenwright said on Sky Sports News yesterday that he was reluctant to saddle the club with further debt on top of the £45m they already owe the banks yet, last week, Everton has borrowed millions upon millions from a mysterious company registered in the British Virgin Islands; or should that be another BVI company.
We?re being treated with contempt; it?s lie after lie after lie; heaven forbid, that the people expressing mock horror at three Evertonians who?ve reported what?s actually going on at Goodison, focus on the real issues here.
As a guy once told me,?Evertonians will end up with the club they deserve.?
Have you not read the interview? Did Bill not tell the guys, on several occasions, to ?write this down?? After the meeting didn?t they issue a statement which told the whole online community that a full report on the meeting would follow?
Where?s the promised threat of legal action? I?ll tell you where it is, it?s disappeared because all of what they?re claiming is unadulterated shite.
What you should be really concerned at is the contents of that report and the statement, particularly the statement, which tells me they?ve been leaked a copy of the clubs next accounts.
What should be of greater concern however is that Bill Kenwright said on Sky Sports News yesterday that he was reluctant to saddle the club with further debt on top of the £45m they already owe the banks yet, last week, Everton has borrowed millions upon millions from a mysterious company registered in the British Virgin Islands; or should that be another BVI company.
We?re being treated with contempt; it?s lie after lie after lie; heaven forbid, that the people expressing mock horror at three Evertonians who?ve reported what?s actually going on at Goodison, focus on the real issues here.
As a guy once told me,?Evertonians will end up with the club they deserve.?
A massive step forward because doubt has been removed.
He'll fight back the hints at legal action show that.
But if you want to know why we're amateurish in everything from marketing, to transfers and why we haven't been sold and why 7th really is the new first - just read the mad fools answers.
This is just the first step.
He'll fight back the hints at legal action show that.
But if you want to know why we're amateurish in everything from marketing, to transfers and why we haven't been sold and why 7th really is the new first - just read the mad fools answers.
This is just the first step.
I think all this bad publicity and fans discontent is going to seriously affect the team performances.
Everton have no money to buy new players, deal with it. There are only the really rich clubs spending big on good players the others are generally buying rubbish or using money from big sales. We still have our top players so the squad is good just small and Bill seems to have done everything possible to not have to sell any of these players.
Do you seriously think Bill (who loves the club) would do anything to jeopardise the future of the club.
Moyes, yes he can be negative at times in matches but he has still done a great job since taking over. Most managers would have quit by now but he has stuck at it.
We won't get relegated, we won't win the league but we can certainly get into Europe.
Let's actually SUPPORT the club like we are supposed to do.
Everton have no money to buy new players, deal with it. There are only the really rich clubs spending big on good players the others are generally buying rubbish or using money from big sales. We still have our top players so the squad is good just small and Bill seems to have done everything possible to not have to sell any of these players.
Do you seriously think Bill (who loves the club) would do anything to jeopardise the future of the club.
Moyes, yes he can be negative at times in matches but he has still done a great job since taking over. Most managers would have quit by now but he has stuck at it.
We won't get relegated, we won't win the league but we can certainly get into Europe.
Let's actually SUPPORT the club like we are supposed to do.
Dick (3) Firstly this idea that shareholders (ANY shareholders, ANY company) are imune from non-shareholders and/or don't have to answer to customers is, imo, makes little sense.
The fact is, if shareholders alienate their customers sufficiently, eventually there's a very good chance there'll be nothing left to HAVE shares in.
And remember, although a handful of people hold the majority of Everton FC shares, the minutes from AGMs (before they were cancelled) indicate that not only do the customers want to know what's going on but (incredibly) so do the MAJORITY of shareholders.
As for the BU, they appear to have found themselves caught between a rock and a hard place.
Go to the meeting with Bill but afterwards say "We signed an agreement saying we wouldn't divulge...".
Result, they're called all the lacky-shithouses going.
Or divulge everything and be (fucking ridiculously!) linked with NOTW phone-hackers
What the BU achieved might not have ground-breaking or actually change anything, but those involved have my admiration for not sitting on their arse (like me) bitching and moaning and instead, actually attempting to do something.
Agree with Chris (10) re 'nouse' and 'word-for-word' although maybe they should say today..
"We DIDN'T tape it, we just..remembered it really well"
(I wouldn't worry about being sued either - last time I looked, lawyers cost money).
The fact is, if shareholders alienate their customers sufficiently, eventually there's a very good chance there'll be nothing left to HAVE shares in.
And remember, although a handful of people hold the majority of Everton FC shares, the minutes from AGMs (before they were cancelled) indicate that not only do the customers want to know what's going on but (incredibly) so do the MAJORITY of shareholders.
As for the BU, they appear to have found themselves caught between a rock and a hard place.
Go to the meeting with Bill but afterwards say "We signed an agreement saying we wouldn't divulge...".
Result, they're called all the lacky-shithouses going.
Or divulge everything and be (fucking ridiculously!) linked with NOTW phone-hackers
What the BU achieved might not have ground-breaking or actually change anything, but those involved have my admiration for not sitting on their arse (like me) bitching and moaning and instead, actually attempting to do something.
Agree with Chris (10) re 'nouse' and 'word-for-word' although maybe they should say today..
"We DIDN'T tape it, we just..remembered it really well"
(I wouldn't worry about being sued either - last time I looked, lawyers cost money).
Graham, I will support the club and the team. But the Directors are not the club.The legal control and ownership may be vested in them, but they are not the club. The club is the team on the pitch and the supporters willing them to win.
At least one of the directors, and the main financial backer, support anther team. The directors have presided over the creation of this mess.
They do not deserve our support or loyalty.
At least one of the directors, and the main financial backer, support anther team. The directors have presided over the creation of this mess.
They do not deserve our support or loyalty.
To record the meeting secretly was wrong, and will only serve to drive a wedge between the club and supporters groups.
"Billy liar" comes across as a bumbling idiot, and yet the blokes managed to make himself a millionaire, something not quite right there in my opinion.
Dick 3 is right, the only question everyone wanted an answer to was the "other" operating costs, everything else has been obvious for a few years now and has been said before.
And perhaps now some of you will realise that without some fool pumping money into the club that he/she will never see again, our road is set out before us irrespective of who's in charge at the top.
We could all make an argument that the club could be run better, that we could make an extra few bob here and there, even save a few quid on the "other" operating costs, but if any of you think that a business can just sweep £24M under the carpet without it being accounted for correctly are kidding yourselves, most ,if not all of that money will have been used for exactly what they say, running the club.
The club in it's present position has a finite amount of money it will make each year, only sustained long term success on the pitch will change that and attract what most of us would snear at over the road, glory hunters, who turn up once in a blue moon but spend a fortune at the club shop.
Lifelong shite fans pre 1970 all had scouse accents, post 1970, they could be from anywhere in the world, that's what long term success brings, and that's what any club needs to become "big" these days, having £10M per year to spend on players is a drop in the ocean and will hardly scratch the surface in terms of competing for the big honours on the pitch.
I know it's painful but we have to accept our lot for the time being and hope one day another John Moores turns up, but as it is at the moment, we can still beat any team in the PL when we're on form, we could still realistically win one or even two cups, we could still realistically qualify for Europe, all of these things bring in extra revenue and hopefully that revenue will be used to invest in the squad.
Now if you want to bring in some revenue of your own, get on us to win 4-1 tomorrow 28/1, or Leon to score first and us to win 4-1 170/1, happy days.
"Billy liar" comes across as a bumbling idiot, and yet the blokes managed to make himself a millionaire, something not quite right there in my opinion.
Dick 3 is right, the only question everyone wanted an answer to was the "other" operating costs, everything else has been obvious for a few years now and has been said before.
And perhaps now some of you will realise that without some fool pumping money into the club that he/she will never see again, our road is set out before us irrespective of who's in charge at the top.
We could all make an argument that the club could be run better, that we could make an extra few bob here and there, even save a few quid on the "other" operating costs, but if any of you think that a business can just sweep £24M under the carpet without it being accounted for correctly are kidding yourselves, most ,if not all of that money will have been used for exactly what they say, running the club.
The club in it's present position has a finite amount of money it will make each year, only sustained long term success on the pitch will change that and attract what most of us would snear at over the road, glory hunters, who turn up once in a blue moon but spend a fortune at the club shop.
Lifelong shite fans pre 1970 all had scouse accents, post 1970, they could be from anywhere in the world, that's what long term success brings, and that's what any club needs to become "big" these days, having £10M per year to spend on players is a drop in the ocean and will hardly scratch the surface in terms of competing for the big honours on the pitch.
I know it's painful but we have to accept our lot for the time being and hope one day another John Moores turns up, but as it is at the moment, we can still beat any team in the PL when we're on form, we could still realistically win one or even two cups, we could still realistically qualify for Europe, all of these things bring in extra revenue and hopefully that revenue will be used to invest in the squad.
Now if you want to bring in some revenue of your own, get on us to win 4-1 tomorrow 28/1, or Leon to score first and us to win 4-1 170/1, happy days.
Michael Brien (12) - If you actually read several of the responses above I think you will find the majority of us are very much singing from the same hymn sheet as you with regard to the taping of the meeting. Bit of an unnecessary rant then to get pissed off with 'holier than thou Evertonians' who were not involved in the meeting, don't you think?
I took from the full transcript that you've got a better chance of nailing custard to the ceiling than getting a straight answer out of Bill Kenwright.
His there's no better salesman than me for EFC is a joke. In the decade he's tried we've seen all but a few clubs in the top two tiers of English football sold on.
His assertion that there's no money in the world is clearly false as QPR, those luminaries of world football and the capital's 88th best team have been taken over in the past few days.
If anything this confirmed what I suspected, that if he was a bar of chocolate he'd eat himself.
If you owned a business and appointed someone to run it on your behalf and they give you a set of accounts showing one third of your total income was going somewhere I'm sure you would want to know, and make sure you understood. He dodged that particular question like an Olympic fencer.
At the very least to any Evertonian who's interested he's made himself out to be a buffoon.
Hopefully anybody with any sense will ask why the big deal with not taking notes and why the big problem with publishing minutes verbatim? There was nothing in there that anybody with two brain cells to rub together couldn't have worked out for themselves.
Clearly he has something to hide and his motives were to placate, not inform in any way.
Colin Fitz' imaginary transcript a while back now looks scarily on the mark.
Kenwright out.
His there's no better salesman than me for EFC is a joke. In the decade he's tried we've seen all but a few clubs in the top two tiers of English football sold on.
His assertion that there's no money in the world is clearly false as QPR, those luminaries of world football and the capital's 88th best team have been taken over in the past few days.
If anything this confirmed what I suspected, that if he was a bar of chocolate he'd eat himself.
If you owned a business and appointed someone to run it on your behalf and they give you a set of accounts showing one third of your total income was going somewhere I'm sure you would want to know, and make sure you understood. He dodged that particular question like an Olympic fencer.
At the very least to any Evertonian who's interested he's made himself out to be a buffoon.
Hopefully anybody with any sense will ask why the big deal with not taking notes and why the big problem with publishing minutes verbatim? There was nothing in there that anybody with two brain cells to rub together couldn't have worked out for themselves.
Clearly he has something to hide and his motives were to placate, not inform in any way.
Colin Fitz' imaginary transcript a while back now looks scarily on the mark.
Kenwright out.
Syria 2011-Assad tries to crackdown on free speech
Kenwright 2011 A sad try to crackdown on free speech.
The board must do the decent thing and resign/have a rights issue because at the moment we are rudderless heading towards the rocks
Kenwright 2011 A sad try to crackdown on free speech.
The board must do the decent thing and resign/have a rights issue because at the moment we are rudderless heading towards the rocks
Wow, talk about gulible! The club put it out that they may be taking legal action because the interview was taped, and it works, because we have fans who are taking it as being true.
We may be ok on the pitch this season but it is the future of the team that is a big worry now. The only form of future income into the club at the moment is selling players to service debt. The next couple of transfer windows will more than likely see players sold with nobody coming. Diminishing the quality of the squad will lead to the very real prospect of relegation.
What's Blue Union's response to threats of legal action?
Anyone know?
Eugene (16) I really like your posts here normally but you're implying that I compared the Blue Union to NOTW-phone hacking.
I did not intend to do that.
I am suggesting that a media-experienced person like Bill Kenwright will use it to make that comparison and that he will have the public opinion with him.
Please see the difference between those things, between my own opinion of the matter and how I think Bill K will use it, is using it already.
I did not intend to do that.
I am suggesting that a media-experienced person like Bill Kenwright will use it to make that comparison and that he will have the public opinion with him.
Please see the difference between those things, between my own opinion of the matter and how I think Bill K will use it, is using it already.
The thing is though Erik, before BK can use the comparision, it actually has to be true first.
Why did Bill enter into a meeting (with a group representing Everton fans) and not expect them to report their meeting? Surely that is the whole purpose of all of the groups.
The whole point of all the upset over the years has been the lack of communication. This was an ideal opportunity to be open to the fans. Now Everton are threatening legal action because the truth is out.
How can the Club 1. argue that the meeting was recorded without consent and 2. argue that the report isn't a true representation of the meeting. It's either one or the other. Not both? Thank goodness they did record it as evidence of the ineptitude of the club.
The whole point of all the upset over the years has been the lack of communication. This was an ideal opportunity to be open to the fans. Now Everton are threatening legal action because the truth is out.
How can the Club 1. argue that the meeting was recorded without consent and 2. argue that the report isn't a true representation of the meeting. It's either one or the other. Not both? Thank goodness they did record it as evidence of the ineptitude of the club.
Erik (25) Not having a pop and I appreciate there's a difference between your views and how BK might see things.
However I thought about my choice of words and (specifically!) chose 'linked' NOT compared.
For the record, I think ANY link between NOTW hackers and the BU unfair and unrealistic.
However I thought about my choice of words and (specifically!) chose 'linked' NOT compared.
For the record, I think ANY link between NOTW hackers and the BU unfair and unrealistic.
It's just plain wrong. If you were asked not take notes then don't.
Look at Tim Cahill's recent interview on Everton FC, all this negativity is clearly getting to the players. Time to be a supporter, not a bunch of whiny internet nerds.
BK and DM have done well for this club. Look at where we were before.
He's right not to saddle us with more debt for 2 reasons. Firstly it means more interest to pay servicing the debt, hence debt on debt, and second the more debt in the club the less attractive it is to a new owner.
Everyone should stop all this tit for tat nonsense, and start getting behind the team.
Look at Tim Cahill's recent interview on Everton FC, all this negativity is clearly getting to the players. Time to be a supporter, not a bunch of whiny internet nerds.
BK and DM have done well for this club. Look at where we were before.
He's right not to saddle us with more debt for 2 reasons. Firstly it means more interest to pay servicing the debt, hence debt on debt, and second the more debt in the club the less attractive it is to a new owner.
Everyone should stop all this tit for tat nonsense, and start getting behind the team.
Steve #18 BK earned his money as a glorified spiv touting theatre tickets to tourists over decades, fairly guaranteed market and dare I say it a good proportion of non returning customers as they were transient in nature, all he had to do was promote something to folk that already had a desire to buy into theatre.
Concerning millionaires, Jade Goody and those half witted inbreds Jedward not what you would say as the cream of evolution yet brewstered beyond anything they deserved to be, the logic wealth is due to intelligence has widened not closed.
Luke #29 BK hasn't got the club to where it is now unless you are talking about record debt and never making a profit bar once in 12 years and only then through the sale of a player. DM has overachieved in spite of BK not because of him and without his work the club could easily have been far worse off and in even deeper shit than it is. BK and DM are not the club they are merely here now don't demand we get behind BK.
Concerning millionaires, Jade Goody and those half witted inbreds Jedward not what you would say as the cream of evolution yet brewstered beyond anything they deserved to be, the logic wealth is due to intelligence has widened not closed.
Luke #29 BK hasn't got the club to where it is now unless you are talking about record debt and never making a profit bar once in 12 years and only then through the sale of a player. DM has overachieved in spite of BK not because of him and without his work the club could easily have been far worse off and in even deeper shit than it is. BK and DM are not the club they are merely here now don't demand we get behind BK.
Why does the clubs press release today say "we accept that the vast majority of fans dont feel this way!"
Have they had a deluge of fans contact them saying they are happy with the lack of disclosure on the accounts - I doubt it.
Smacks of pure delusion!
Have they had a deluge of fans contact them saying they are happy with the lack of disclosure on the accounts - I doubt it.
Smacks of pure delusion!
So Gavin, where do you think the profit should come from? What should the club be doing to generate more revenue, or what costs do you think should be cut? Would raising the price of season tickets be suitable? Don't think so. So where does the money come from exactly?
It seems on the one hand people are pissed of that we're in debt, but on the other hand they don't want players sold. Unfortunately you can't have one without the other!!
Personally I think BK is alright, but if you don't then fair enough, I'm not demanding you get behind him. What I do think though is that all this negativity amongst the fans is likely to be having a negative impact on the players.
You all want rid of BK, equally BK wants out. So, as soon as a suitable purchaser is found you'll all get what you want. In the meantime having this debate so publicly will weaken our negotiating position when it comes to the transfer market, and knock the confidence of our current squad. And they are the ones who have to go out there and win.
It's just stupid.
It seems on the one hand people are pissed of that we're in debt, but on the other hand they don't want players sold. Unfortunately you can't have one without the other!!
Personally I think BK is alright, but if you don't then fair enough, I'm not demanding you get behind him. What I do think though is that all this negativity amongst the fans is likely to be having a negative impact on the players.
You all want rid of BK, equally BK wants out. So, as soon as a suitable purchaser is found you'll all get what you want. In the meantime having this debate so publicly will weaken our negotiating position when it comes to the transfer market, and knock the confidence of our current squad. And they are the ones who have to go out there and win.
It's just stupid.
Luke, if Bill really wants out then why orchestrate the sale so ineffectively?!
Why keep Keith Harris in tow when he has provided laughable leads that had no credibility and that could easily have been vetted out before they even got a meeting with Bill Kenwright....
Why keep Keith Harris in tow when he has provided laughable leads that had no credibility and that could easily have been vetted out before they even got a meeting with Bill Kenwright....
Luke, correct me if I'm wrong and I'll sell them and unlike Kenshite name my price, but am I a major shareholder in the club and on the board of directors and thus responsible to create and run that business.......... didn't think so.
So you think the chairman and board should be responsible for running a business..............ta da, penny dropped yet?
You think a chairman and board that have been there for over a decade with very few changes should be doing this?..........ta da, more pennies.
The chairman and board have failed utterly in every avenue to build the business, expand or even create any marketing initiative whatsoever, missed the Capital of Culture until it was virtually completed, signed an outsourced merchandising deal which is all but useless if you live outside Liverpool and don't have web access, no advertising whatsoever at major sites such as Liverpool Airport, no marketing despite having first team players such as Tim Howard and Tim Cahill in their respective homelands or merchandising anything during tours there, no brand expansion into non-footballing day events, wasted more on two failed ground moves than DM has spent on players in the last two years..........building up a fat piggy bank here but I'll stop as its boring repeating business 101 ad nauseum.
Debating BK's abject failure and clear desire to control the club - he is the best person to control the sale???? does not make one iota difference to the laughing stock we already are in the market. The club hasn't bought a first team player in two years and counting, I doubt agents even bother their arse trying to tout to the club as its footballs worst secret the club is potless.
I'm personally pissed off because I've repeated this for years not just this season or last, the club is being ran atrociously and for all the guff about what BK does to the benefit of the club I've never seen any argument that holds water, no joy gained from a told you so just bile at the nonsense trying to defend the indefensible. The playing squad is tiny and BK's only business plan is to sell players to keep the banks at bay, because he's fucking useless at running Everton as a business, sticking up for BK prolongs the problem it does nothing whatsoever positive to the situation at hand and thats a failing business thats running out of time and assets left to strip to get another stay of execution.
So you think the chairman and board should be responsible for running a business..............ta da, penny dropped yet?
You think a chairman and board that have been there for over a decade with very few changes should be doing this?..........ta da, more pennies.
The chairman and board have failed utterly in every avenue to build the business, expand or even create any marketing initiative whatsoever, missed the Capital of Culture until it was virtually completed, signed an outsourced merchandising deal which is all but useless if you live outside Liverpool and don't have web access, no advertising whatsoever at major sites such as Liverpool Airport, no marketing despite having first team players such as Tim Howard and Tim Cahill in their respective homelands or merchandising anything during tours there, no brand expansion into non-footballing day events, wasted more on two failed ground moves than DM has spent on players in the last two years..........building up a fat piggy bank here but I'll stop as its boring repeating business 101 ad nauseum.
Debating BK's abject failure and clear desire to control the club - he is the best person to control the sale???? does not make one iota difference to the laughing stock we already are in the market. The club hasn't bought a first team player in two years and counting, I doubt agents even bother their arse trying to tout to the club as its footballs worst secret the club is potless.
I'm personally pissed off because I've repeated this for years not just this season or last, the club is being ran atrociously and for all the guff about what BK does to the benefit of the club I've never seen any argument that holds water, no joy gained from a told you so just bile at the nonsense trying to defend the indefensible. The playing squad is tiny and BK's only business plan is to sell players to keep the banks at bay, because he's fucking useless at running Everton as a business, sticking up for BK prolongs the problem it does nothing whatsoever positive to the situation at hand and thats a failing business thats running out of time and assets left to strip to get another stay of execution.
Lee - not a rant at all. I am sick of the attitude towards Kenwright. maybe he is as bad as people are making out - but then if you have to make use of underhand tactics then in my opinion you are no better. And from what is often said on TW then it seems to me there are those who would support the so called Blue Union. I think their actions have done the exact opposite of unifying.
Dont forget that Liverpool were sold from under the noses of Hicks and Gillette because they were trying to fleece the next prospective buyer, indeed the take over that transpired has seen the biggest turn around in their fortunes for agood few years..
ok it may not guarantee success but at least they got out of 350 million debt and have be able to spend a further 110 million in 8 months to compete
however it took a 3rd party to prise the club from the 2 idiots hands, perhaps it would take something similar to prize it off our own bumbling idiot's hands.
if he is the best salesman available to sell the club then we are royally fucked big time... seriously...... no SERIOUSLY !!!
ok it may not guarantee success but at least they got out of 350 million debt and have be able to spend a further 110 million in 8 months to compete
however it took a 3rd party to prise the club from the 2 idiots hands, perhaps it would take something similar to prize it off our own bumbling idiot's hands.
if he is the best salesman available to sell the club then we are royally fucked big time... seriously...... no SERIOUSLY !!!
Mark Murphy (9)
"Bill has underlined his naiveness in opening up in this way."
He is not naive if he realises he needs to sell a player before Sep 1st and is basically using Sky Sports News as a platform to drum up interest in the playing squad from potential buyers.
You never know, he might not be the buffoon so many of us think he is...
"Bill has underlined his naiveness in opening up in this way."
He is not naive if he realises he needs to sell a player before Sep 1st and is basically using Sky Sports News as a platform to drum up interest in the playing squad from potential buyers.
You never know, he might not be the buffoon so many of us think he is...
I hope that the net effect of the so called 'Blue Union' intervention does not cost us even more financially. Now that they have informed every club and potential buyer in the world that we are desperate for funds and that the bank is turning the screw on us, I fear that we may be forced to accept derisory sums for both our best players and the for the eventual sale of the club. If that turns out to be the case, the smug, self congratulatory, immoral, naive people who call themselves the 'Blue Union' will have a lot to answer for. They demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the basics of business negotiation and have only served to weken and compromise Everton's stance. They are idiots and they do not in anyway represent me or my views.
Noel mate he is.............
Gavin 30.
Although i agree with you that today's celebrity culture can breed idiot millionaires, I think calling Kenwright a glorified spiv is a bit unfair, theatre producers {which is what he does} usually have to put money up front to put a show on, if it bombs at the box office then so does their money, not every West End show is a best seller and quite a lot fail on opening night, Kenwright is very shrewd in his field, his shows go on at the Theatre Royal in Windsor to small audiences to gauge the public and the press reaction, and deciding if they will make money before taking them to the West End, this tells me he knows a lot more than he was prepared to say at that meeting.
Although i agree with you that today's celebrity culture can breed idiot millionaires, I think calling Kenwright a glorified spiv is a bit unfair, theatre producers {which is what he does} usually have to put money up front to put a show on, if it bombs at the box office then so does their money, not every West End show is a best seller and quite a lot fail on opening night, Kenwright is very shrewd in his field, his shows go on at the Theatre Royal in Windsor to small audiences to gauge the public and the press reaction, and deciding if they will make money before taking them to the West End, this tells me he knows a lot more than he was prepared to say at that meeting.
Hopefully this debacle of BK's doing will bring his value of the club down considerably. the lower the value to more potential investors and the less they spend the more left to improve the squad etc...
If Bill is trying to get more back than he has put in then shame on him because he is putting his own financial gain before the better interests of the long term health of the club..
wouldnt suprise me though...
If Bill is trying to get more back than he has put in then shame on him because he is putting his own financial gain before the better interests of the long term health of the club..
wouldnt suprise me though...
Why is taping wrong? No one is arsed that tabloid journalists tape stuff, they're arsed about having their phones hacked. It's completely different. It's a stupid comparison.
How did all that bung stuff come out at the end of the 80's / beginning of the 90s? What about all the fake sheihk stuff? Duchess Fergie has also been stung by secret filming and taping.
Who gives a shit? What was talked about at that meeting was not said in private so The Blue Union have every right to print it regardless of whether it was taped or not. Anyone saying the group have lost credibility just because they taped it are clueless.
Anyway, like Eugene says, what proof does anyone have that they did tape it apart from some ridiculous accusations on twitter?
How did all that bung stuff come out at the end of the 80's / beginning of the 90s? What about all the fake sheihk stuff? Duchess Fergie has also been stung by secret filming and taping.
Who gives a shit? What was talked about at that meeting was not said in private so The Blue Union have every right to print it regardless of whether it was taped or not. Anyone saying the group have lost credibility just because they taped it are clueless.
Anyway, like Eugene says, what proof does anyone have that they did tape it apart from some ridiculous accusations on twitter?
So Michael (#35) The club have come out and said the meeting was taped, and you believe them ?
Also at the start of the meeting
" The chairman was aware that information from the meeting would be supplied to supporters "
Also at the start of the meeting
" The chairman was aware that information from the meeting would be supplied to supporters "
I posted a few years ago about my chat with some other luvvies at Glyndebourne about BK and they said he was small time and trying to big himself up with the upper echelons.
BK's shows entail him finding a location which he doesn't need to own, he'll rent it for a percentage of the ticket sales and vending on the night, pay minimum wage to the staff needed to put the show together and churn out sales for the duration of the run, we'll have to disagree with the Spiv analogy because to my mind he actually does nothing other than facilitates the work of others in the background and spivs tickets then takes a slice for himself, probably the lion's share, clever if you can do it, again to an audience with an appetite for the product and the majority of his wealth grown before the days of dwindling audiences when several theatrical shows ran for years not weeks showing a market trend for the product.
BK's shows entail him finding a location which he doesn't need to own, he'll rent it for a percentage of the ticket sales and vending on the night, pay minimum wage to the staff needed to put the show together and churn out sales for the duration of the run, we'll have to disagree with the Spiv analogy because to my mind he actually does nothing other than facilitates the work of others in the background and spivs tickets then takes a slice for himself, probably the lion's share, clever if you can do it, again to an audience with an appetite for the product and the majority of his wealth grown before the days of dwindling audiences when several theatrical shows ran for years not weeks showing a market trend for the product.
My only problem with the whole thing is that Bill thinks HE is the biggest Evertonian! Well he is NOT....I am and so is my wife! (who supports West Ham)
Aside from all groaning about our club's Financial position, in a spirit of protest, I am closing my Barclays Account. I see the hand of the Red side somewhere in this.
I see Moyes has been rolled out.
http://www.evertonfc.com//news/archive/2011/08/19/moyes-backs-blues
http://www.evertonfc.com//news/archive/2011/08/19/moyes-backs-blues
Boring........ Same old shite.
I think the tern you were after is 'cat out of the bag', but even that would be rubbish.
Everyone knows we're skint; it's no new news that mate. I thought BK was being honest in that meeting. We've got nee cash and that's the way it is.
You can't blame Kenwright for not being a multi-billionaire FFS - you're not ultra minted, so should I blame you too for not investing instead? No is the answer to that question.
You're all beginning to sound like that showers of cunts from over the park.
The sooner we get out of that fuckin' shithole and move to a new ground, the better and more likely it'll be that we'll attract potential investors.
I think the tern you were after is 'cat out of the bag', but even that would be rubbish.
Everyone knows we're skint; it's no new news that mate. I thought BK was being honest in that meeting. We've got nee cash and that's the way it is.
You can't blame Kenwright for not being a multi-billionaire FFS - you're not ultra minted, so should I blame you too for not investing instead? No is the answer to that question.
You're all beginning to sound like that showers of cunts from over the park.
The sooner we get out of that fuckin' shithole and move to a new ground, the better and more likely it'll be that we'll attract potential investors.
If Moyes backs him, I back him.
Andy, no one is blaming Kenwright for not being rich, you thick twat. You obviously don't get it do you?
Go away and read the transcript and read The Blue Union's statement
Go away and read the transcript and read The Blue Union's statement
"If Moyes backs him, I back him."
The difference being that Moyes is paid an absolute fortune to 'back him'. Why the hell does that mean you should mindlessly follow suit?
The difference being that Moyes is paid an absolute fortune to 'back him'. Why the hell does that mean you should mindlessly follow suit?
" I thought BK was being honest in that meeting"
Yeah, because he totally cleared up the confusion about why Keith Wyness left the club didn't he? He tackled that question head on.
No way in the world was he bullshitting about coincidentally meeting a potential investor later that day.
I mean, you could hardly even hear his arse squeaking at all when he said Philip Green had nothing whatsoever to do with the running of the club.
His own postie will vouch for the fact that he gets 4 boxes of shit delivered to his house every 6 months. Special delivery. He has to sign for the shit and everything.
The very fact that the Blue Union guys were briefed beforehand that any questions regarding the asking price for the club would see the interview terminated with immediate effect, demonstrates, without a shadow of a doubt, that Bill was totally prepared to lay all his cards on the table.
Yeah, because he totally cleared up the confusion about why Keith Wyness left the club didn't he? He tackled that question head on.
No way in the world was he bullshitting about coincidentally meeting a potential investor later that day.
I mean, you could hardly even hear his arse squeaking at all when he said Philip Green had nothing whatsoever to do with the running of the club.
His own postie will vouch for the fact that he gets 4 boxes of shit delivered to his house every 6 months. Special delivery. He has to sign for the shit and everything.
The very fact that the Blue Union guys were briefed beforehand that any questions regarding the asking price for the club would see the interview terminated with immediate effect, demonstrates, without a shadow of a doubt, that Bill was totally prepared to lay all his cards on the table.
Other operating costs are David Moyess wages, didnt you see him saying that?
What else could it be, He is on a 50.000 a week contract, times 4 is 200. Times 12 is 24 miillion. That is the answer to that question!!!
What else could it be, He is on a 50.000 a week contract, times 4 is 200. Times 12 is 24 miillion. That is the answer to that question!!!
Other operating costs are David Moyess wages, didnt you see him saying that?
What else could it be, He is on a 50.000 a week contract, times 4 is 200. Times 12 is 24 miillion. That is the answer to that question!!!
What else could it be, He is on a 50.000 a week contract, times 4 is 200. Times 12 is 24 miillion. That is the answer to that question!!!
Other operating costs are David Moyess wages, didnt you see him saying that?
What else could it be, He is on a £50k a week contract, times 4 is £200k. Times 12 is £24 miillion. That is the answer to that question!!!
What else could it be, He is on a £50k a week contract, times 4 is £200k. Times 12 is £24 miillion. That is the answer to that question!!!
Is that what they call New Maths over in Norway, Jimmy?
I like it!!!
I like it!!!
Cheers Jimmy. We can all stop asking that question now.
Alan @ 51 - fuck Blue Union.
We need to get out of that fuckin' shithole and shop moanin' like those twats acorss the park. Simple as that.
BK was honest I thought.
Anyway, I'm off for a shite........
We need to get out of that fuckin' shithole and shop moanin' like those twats acorss the park. Simple as that.
BK was honest I thought.
Anyway, I'm off for a shite........
Yep yer right
BK was being honest, he is a useless tosser who has no idea whats going on at the club and even less how the fanbase feel
If we win tomorrow, he will be the first on 5live or SSN saying "The fans realise whats going on at the club, i love them and they love me - we are in this together bla bla fuckin bla"
Then when he sells a player on the 31st it will be "im doing this for the fans to keep the club alive, they know that and respect me all the more for it bla bla bla"
Jesus wept. what a fuckin mess we are in
BK was being honest, he is a useless tosser who has no idea whats going on at the club and even less how the fanbase feel
If we win tomorrow, he will be the first on 5live or SSN saying "The fans realise whats going on at the club, i love them and they love me - we are in this together bla bla fuckin bla"
Then when he sells a player on the 31st it will be "im doing this for the fans to keep the club alive, they know that and respect me all the more for it bla bla bla"
Jesus wept. what a fuckin mess we are in
@54, 55, 56...
How does £200,000 x 12 = £24m? On my planet it equals £2.4m
I hope you were just demonstrating how Everton might be doing their payroll...
How does £200,000 x 12 = £24m? On my planet it equals £2.4m
I hope you were just demonstrating how Everton might be doing their payroll...
I don't have a problem with us not having money to shop in the transfer market like other richer clubs.
I do have a problem with BK seemingly getting us in such a financial mess that we are forced to loan out players at the club and funds received from the sale of existing players go to the bank rather than to DM.
If we can hold on to DM I would really suggest we sell all our big wage players for as much as we can get over the next couple of years. Plough money into our scouting system and academy and let DM build our squad from players we can bring through from the youth system.
I'd rather have us get the club back on a stable financial footing with young, hungry players rather than be 5 pieces short of the full jigsaw and not have a pot to piss in. The current "business model" if we can call it that, is simply not going to work.
I do have a problem with BK seemingly getting us in such a financial mess that we are forced to loan out players at the club and funds received from the sale of existing players go to the bank rather than to DM.
If we can hold on to DM I would really suggest we sell all our big wage players for as much as we can get over the next couple of years. Plough money into our scouting system and academy and let DM build our squad from players we can bring through from the youth system.
I'd rather have us get the club back on a stable financial footing with young, hungry players rather than be 5 pieces short of the full jigsaw and not have a pot to piss in. The current "business model" if we can call it that, is simply not going to work.
Wayne...I completly agree...that is reality....hate to admit but...Distin..Saha..Cahill...Arteta and Neville have to go to save 'Bill's £5M shortfall...then we buid up again, Reality is shit but neccessary....unfortunatly...oh and get rid of EARL, GREEN and KENWRIGHT...the former two as they are clearly making us suffer for spoiling their pay day...but they will never beat us...they are greedy businessmen....and have no future in a place called..EVERTON.i
And MR. Ross...as you.like you 'want' to be called...ironically the 'NET' is closing on you and your £6 an hour internet 'warriour's' who disrupt and 'seemingly' lesser influence now. Goodbye...'MR ROSS'...exit by the back door....TAXI PLEASE! ps it must be really be a bad psychologicall downer being 'bill's' 'arse piece'...'MATE'.. ha ha goodbye.
Sorry, I'm moving Hatton / Blue Union taping type meessages over to the new (2nd) lead article on the main page. You should find any missing comments there.
I must be differant to most of you guys. I feel this Blue Union have betrayed us all. Tomorrow I will be going to the match with my boys talking about big Bob & us beating QPR 4-1 first day of the season at there ground. The situation is not ideal but since the 80s its the only time we are constantly finishing in top 8. If any one protest near me tomorrow expect to get me protesting against you. Onward Evertonians
Paul 47, Aside from all groaning about our club's Financial position, in a spirit of protest, I am closing my Barclays Account. I see the hand of the Red side somewhere in this.
My feelings as well, we owe 45m with turnover of 80M cant buy players.
RS owed 385M with turnover of 175M, but are still allowed to spend 24M last summer?
I think they have a bigger role in our club's dealings than people would believe, I'm convinced they have nobbled the Council and it wouldn't surprise me if they are somehow stopping any buyers or investment in our club, that person could well be BK, as Alan Ball said "I thought he was a red"
The 24M operating costs must be ezplained, as that is where our transfer fund is going, also we must find out why no one is interested in buying Everton, when the buying clubs started we were the joint 3rd biggest club with Arsenal, and yet no one wants to buy us? Why?
My feelings as well, we owe 45m with turnover of 80M cant buy players.
RS owed 385M with turnover of 175M, but are still allowed to spend 24M last summer?
I think they have a bigger role in our club's dealings than people would believe, I'm convinced they have nobbled the Council and it wouldn't surprise me if they are somehow stopping any buyers or investment in our club, that person could well be BK, as Alan Ball said "I thought he was a red"
The 24M operating costs must be ezplained, as that is where our transfer fund is going, also we must find out why no one is interested in buying Everton, when the buying clubs started we were the joint 3rd biggest club with Arsenal, and yet no one wants to buy us? Why?
Thomas (67) - You've covered it. So Lee Harvey didn't murder JFK?
My view on the Blue Union thing is ownership has held information so close to the vest that BU taped it so there would be some word-for-word account of what Kenright said.
So what.
He didn't say anything we didn't all know. But he said it for the "record". Fine by me.
So what.
He didn't say anything we didn't all know. But he said it for the "record". Fine by me.
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1 Posted 19/08/2011 at 06:49:46
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His interview on SSN yesterday meant that most coverage is about what he said there and not what the blue union found out. As it progresses, I fear the only press that meeting will get outside of our own fans is the fact that they taped him without permission which, to be honest, was a naive move and may hinder their long term goals.
Like a stand up comedian, the audience can heckle, but it's the person on stage with the mic who inevitably gets heard and has the power.