For god's sake, when will you people realise that there is no chance of an interim board being put in place. There is no way in the world of getting rid of Bill or the current sharholders unless they choose to go. At the end of the day after amortisation we lost just 500k. We can afford to repay our debts so there is no way that the bank is going to call in it's debts and put an interim board in place as they did with our neighbours. All that is happening is the Barclays are refusing to lend us further money which you can't balme them for in the current climate. We had no chance of replacing Mikky in those timescales and Moyesy like a harmonious dressing room so given Mikky indicated he wanted to leave DM let him go.

Why not just get behind the team and the young lads coming through rather than continuing to pile the negativity into the club. There is enough about as it is.

Give your gobs a rest and direct your passion where it will actually help the team, at the old lady on a match day instead of spouting all this bile that, for all intents and purposes, will make not one bit of difference tot he future of our club. As has bene pointed out many, many, many times before - if we force the current encumbants into a quick sale just to shut a small section of our supporters up then we may end up with a Ridsdale or Gaydamak at the helm and who knows what the future may hold then.

At least with the current encumbants they are being sensible - reducing debt, not spending money we don't have and listening to their bank. So they have made mistake, who hasn't? At least we can be safe in the knowledge our club will continue to exist and more than likely in the premiership.

Stop whinging like spoilt little girls.

Dan - passion makes less noise than money. And Clown Kenwright got no dosh. I hate being a blue because of Kenwright and his tottenham supporting mates. We will never win anything again. If I live to a thousand we still wont win the league. Simply getting behind the team wont chnge our status.. WE need Kenwright to leave the club. But, we all know he is there for life.

Very very sensible comment by Dan Nulty.At times the web commentators are giving a totally biased and un reprsentative view of what the fans think.

Dan in answer to your question I will offer you one answer from the mouth of Bill Kenwright "make me life-president". He is the problem - fact. For the record, I have never not supported the team or David Moyes, my support is vocal on a match day at Goodison Park and blind loyality is not the solution.

DN. Good idea just give up be good little boys and leave them to complete the task of ruining a once great club, super is that an alias DN

I fail to see what Kenwright has to lose from the appointment of an interim board - who are tasked with the selling of the club.

If there's no-one willing to buy the club (as he categorically states) - then the failure of an interim board to sell the club will ultimately prove him right - and we can carry him around the streets held aloft!

That is, assuming he isn't talking pure and utter crap!

Dan #1.

For god's sake, when will you people begin to read, understand and stop writing utter shite like, "At least with the current encumbants they are being sensible - reducing debt, not spending money we don't have and listening to their bank."

Dan,

Thanks for putting this into perspective. We should all be cheering with passion as our top 5 team of a few years ago is dismantled one transfer window at a time.

Us "spoilt girls" should just be grateful we're in Premiership and stop looking at Stoke/Bolton/Wigan/Wolves with green eyes.
As you say Dan, the mind boggles at the state at the club should it fall into the hands of someone out of their depth and totally incompetent.

The posts and responses are like a broken record now. If here's a constructive criticism on how the club actually gets a new set of directors or how the club can actually improve with either the current set or a new set without a benefactor then let's hear them.

The critics want a certain result but have no real answers to anything; the conservatives want stability and support because radical change of the wrong kind could see Everton disappear. The conservatives have the high ground because the only strategy of the critics is to get rid of Kenwright and nothing else. It isn't enough.

Please, if there's nothing new to add to the debate why not some constructive threads instead.

How is what I have written utter Shite Colin. Have they not been reducing our debt? You pass comment on the new loan taken out recently and yet that only continues the status quo as we have taken that loan out ever year, initially it was to buy player (s) and we now have found ourselves in the position where it is continually needed. We pay our debts and interest within the terms indicated and after amortisation still only make a small loss. Amortisation is not cash lost to the business. Would you rather we found another financial institution lent us £30 million for us to have spent less than at least 6 sides in the premiership and bar another miracle from Moyes finish 7th again? What is the point in that? If we are going to challenge top four we need someone with a spare £1 billion who can afford to give us a new stadium and bankroll a whole team of stars to compete with the Utd, City, Chelsea's and Liverpool's current spending. Even an investment of £100 million into the team wouldn't guarantee top four so why would any sane business man do it?

And Paul, I'd rather the current encumbants were in place than Ridsdale and his like, wouldn't you? Be thankful we have turned from relegation candidates every season to mid table and above, under who's watch did that happen? Would you rather we got into champions league once and then dropped down to League 1? And Phil, I'm not saying be happy about the fact that we've sold Arteta but at the end of the day how good has he been since his knee injury? Ossie was far better than him last year. £10 million for a 29 year old who has lost a yard of pace isn't bad business. Particularly when we have Barkley coming through. Felli, Rodders, Cahill to play centre mid, Drenthe out on the left, Coleman when back on the right - looks alright to me. What I am saying is a few thousand fans are constantly whinging about the board - but to what end? A small pocket in one stand protesting? Half of Old Trafford is green and gold - that is more fans than currently turn up to our stadium!!! You lot are stuck in the 80's, we have no right to compete with the top four and as I've said we'd need a spare £1billion to be competing there regularly so yes, my view is we should be grateful we are playing in the best league in the world, no danger of relegation and confident our club will continue to exist. I'm no alias or insider, just a passionate fan who is grateful that we don't have last game of the season histrionics and tears of relief anymore. I'm not towing any party line just sick and tired of all the waste of energy a small section of our fans seem to spend when clearly they can't affect the situation and what should be even more clear to them given the lack of sales of their 'protest scarves' and lack of banners and shouting in the ground, is that they aren't the voice for the majority of the fans.

Sorry Martin, I do agree with you entirely but I just get so frustrated at the continued negativity. As you say, the people who want Kenwright and the board out haven't got an alternative suggestion or a way to move forward that is realistic which is why they can't win support from the majority of the fans. I think if there was a viable alternative then the majority would protest. THe fac tof the matter is, there isn't. We'd have heard about it otherwise.

Dan, all you did there is echo Ian Ross' opinion.

I wish the club would stop planting stooges on fan's websites.

It's not going to work, we cannot be fooled.

You can try and palm me off as stooge Tommy but sadly you are wrong. I'm currently going through a career change as a primary school teacher so have absolutely no link to the club whatsoever other than being a fan since 1984. Through living abroad I never got to see my team though until 98/99 when a mate took me to watch Everton Newcastle, we'd been unbeaten for 6 months at home, Duncan and Speed returned to play against us and we lost two nil. I mistakenly told two guys behind me it was my first ever game so they blamed me for the defeat!! Dyer scored a great goal that day. Anyway, I digress. Just an honest fan. Fooling yourself if you think that the minority speak for the majority.

Hi "Dan Nulty",
How odd that when you Google that name with Everton you get links to people totally agreeing with you on the official site, although you don't seem to have written anything for them to agree with.




http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/07/19/what-the-papers-say-19-july

Sorry...

Just pres Ctrl+F on the page and paste Dan Nulty
Also http://www.evertonfc.com/news/speculation

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/09/13/what-the-papers-say-september-13th

Plus a bunch of others... but other wise "Great posts Dan Nulty"

"How is what I have written utter Shite Colin. Have they not been reducing our debt? "
-----------------------

No. They haven't.

Does that answer you first question?

Dan Nulty.....

Hmmm, thats a new one

good try ;)

Unfortunately, anyone coming on line and spouting the club line is going to subject themselves to this kind of scrutiny. "Dan Nulty" is another one of our many new personalities who fits this bill. One telling thing for me: they never post about football...

Just saying...

Primary school teacher? With spelling like that??? Yea, I guess you convinced me.

In answer to Martin Mason @9 I have offered my opinion as to a valid alternative i.e. the creation of an interim board. Does Trevor Birch spring to mind ? Somebody who was well respected in Football circles for his skills as a CEO. He took one look at the state of the books and was horrified at what he found - however conveniently passed off as having lustful and roving eyes by Bill Kenwright for the other lot over the Park. Keith Wyness was also apparently chasing the other (whatever that meant) and his lips remain sealed.

If you read Lyndon's piece "Dan" you will see a couple of e-mails which proved to me, buyers are being put off at the enquiry stage.

Sorry Chaps, you boys are so way off the mark it's untrue. Quite sad that on a fans website you try and pass off views of fans that are against your own as a stooge of the club. Really sad.

And Ciaran. Yes. They have. Bellefield went to reduce debt.



Look at the dates on the website, 2010, it looks like you can't go back to previous pages. If you do google me you'll also see that I played rugby union for Ilkley so have absolutely nothing to do with football. Really find it sad that you'd stoop t to this level to try and discredit a fan who diagrees with you.

"And Ciaran. Yes. They have. Bellefield went to reduce debt."
----------------------

So Dan, what was the debt when Kenwright took over - and what is it now?

Fuck me Guys the paranoia is running rampant at the moment. If you can dismantle the guys argument then do so. If you cant leave it to people who can.

This idea that everyone who doesnt agree is some sort of "plant" is getting ridiculous.
You need to concentrate on winning hearts and minds, cupping your ears and shouting "plant" doesnt do you any favours at all.

That said Dan, you are talking shite, I`m no financial expert but even I know that our debt has increased year upon year and will continue to do so. The events of last night may have temporarily slowed things down, but people like me are asking themselves what happens when there are no stars left to sell ?

Nothing wrong with the spelling Michael, simply typo's.

I honestly can't believe you lot think I'm a stooge just because I think you should stop with all the negative shite you lot post about the one part of our club you can't affect. All I'm trying to say is shut up whinging about it and get behind the team. Doesn't make me a stooge.

And for what it's worth Michael, am doing a GTP through Braford College, teaching at a primary school in West Yorkshire, Dad was in the Army, Uncle runs his own business in Warrington, Wife is a teacher. Have been volunteering at a school and absolutely loved it, I'm trying to make a positive difference not just to my life but the lives of others, particularly young lads who don't have any male role models in their life.

The fact is that I don't support the board or Kenwright (I think he is a naive idiot by the way). I am just grateful we are still in the premiership, have been punching above our weight and the current encumbants aren't sending us to administration. It could have been worse. If a viable alternative is put forward and I like the sound of what they are saying, if they come out and said do you you know what these muppets are asking for £200 million for your club and it isn't worth it, I'd be at the front of any protest. The fact remains we have no alternative so chomping at the bit to get rid of them and whinging like 'spoilt little girls' is a complete waste of energy.

Thanks Dave, at least one person can see that I am a bona fide genuine idiot rather than some stooge.

Our debt levels have increased, the point I am making now is that since 2010 accounts it appears to me that they have been reducing that debt through Bellefield and player sales and reducing the wage bill. I'm not saying that prior to that that debt levels haven;t increased because it's plain to see they have. Clearly. What is also clear is that Bill never had two pennys to rub together and it is only his mates who helped him by the club. Lord knows where we'd be if Johnson stayed in charge.

Dan your argument is pretty lame fella, Kenwright is now adopting the same approach as Peter Johnson in that he has now resorted to selling the final remaining assets (the player's) as every other tangible asset has been sold off. We seriously need somebody with proven business acumen to come in, take over the reigns and provide the stability that the Manager, Player's and fans need. Martin Broughton fulfilled his mandate with Liverpool, the first question that needs to be answered is 'how much is Everton's for sale price'.

Surely we can find out the sale price somehow...?

give him the comfy chair, he'll confess for sure

Well, look Dan if you are who you say you are, I apologise... I just think the whole thing stinks here: http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/comment/mailbag/18796.html

Dave Wilson, you of all people know that people on here don't want to just jeer in unison about whatever current moan there is - but it's dishearten if people are making aliases simply to make their viewpoint stand out. Often you (and by that I don't mean you personally) go round and round having the same "discussions" because of the use of childish tactics which sound like something from a school yard. Clearly though, Googling everyone who does not share your opinion isn't exactly mature. That said, somebody arguing that Billy should play behind any lone striker is as much a matter of opinion as saying you don't agree with The Blue Union's tactics... but running an online propaganda attack is quite another.

I've read many things that you have posted on here Dave, some I agree with, some I don't... some I respond to and some I don't... certainly a lot of people I know don't contribute, but they do read quite alot so that they get a balanced opinion. If (and I'm certainly not saying ToffeeWeb is the defacto unbiased fans' forum) opinions are being underhandedly swayed either by people inside the club or outside, then I think it's wrong. There's the old adage about arseholes and opinons, that everyone has one - perhaps Ian Ross needs more personas to expel the vast quantities of shit he has.

Dan: "encumbant" ? ??? Not just once but FOUR times! That ain't no typo.

Look it up. Well, you might have trouble when you've got the first letter wrong...

It's the little ones I fear for...

Fully agree with the last paragraph of the original post. It is gut wrenching to watch the club I love in such a state. A feeling that is made much worse knowing that Kenwright is not going to give up control. I was born in 77 so obviously the eighties success made me think it was to be expected each year. How wrong I was. No-one can deny that the magic has gone out of football. With the money floating about elsewhere we stand no chance and it hurts to even contemplate that thought. We all know Kenwright can't keep us up there but I would love to know why he has not moved heaven and earth to get Leahy onboard. The guy is also meant to be an Evertonian. Did he not (albeit not alone) make Tesco into a multi-billion £ company. Would he not have something to offer? Could he not help improve our piss poor commercial side? Or is Kenwright the right man for that also? The man is an ass of a chairman and the quicker he realises it himself the better.

Dan

Please tell us your qualifications or state your experience that allow you to state as fact what a psychiatrist would make of Bill Kenwright.

I'm not a pyschiatrist Barney but I can tell you this after reading the blue union transcript I am confident to add deluded, fantasist, fraud and conman to his already well titled billy-liar / bullshitter mantle.

Dan Nulty is defo a witch, he turned me into a newt! (i got better)

Dan@1 How can we help the team we dont play but new players of quality would certainly help.

We can shout from the fuckin rooftops it wont turn Anichebe into a top class striker believe me.

Dan

"If you do google me you'll also see that I played rugby union for Ilkley so have absolutely nothing to do with football."

Yep!

Dave Wilson @24 good post.

Dan Nulty # all over the place.

"They" have not been reducing our debts, the last published accounts and the next will show that despite the measures they have taken the debt remains exactly the same. That's despite the handing over of Bellefield and the sale of players. The costs have actually risen , the wages, despite shipping out 11 players on loan have actually risen to £58m.

The concept you have difficulty in understanding is that "they" have caused the debt in the first place, the debt was only "£15m" net or "£20m" total, now it's "£45m" net or "£90m" total, net debt in 2011 will be the same as in 2010. The banks won't touch us with a shitty stick, the asset / debt ratio is fucked, EBITDA was just £1m in the last accounts, in the next it will be below £500k.

To me you're a phoney, on here to peddle the shite that has been fed by amateurs attempting to run what should be a professional organisation.

The solution to our problems lies with taking the decision on the sale out of the hands of proven amateurs and placing it with professionals; they can either agree or inflict even greater damage on the club and their precious personal investment; time to go, time for a change.

Peter Laing #35

Oh Peter, you've let the cat out of the bag as to what some are really attempting to achieve; taken from Everton's Articles of Association:

19. Disqualification and Removal of Directors
19.1 The office of a director shall be vacated if:
19.1.3 he is, or may be, suffering from mental disorder and either........

Pity, no doubt another amendment will be tabled soon!

You caught me out Michael, I did spell incumbant incorrectly, for which I apologise, I can't see the need to be spelling that out to 6 year olds however so it shouldn't affect my ability to teach.

Adam - you deserved it.

Colin, the proof will be in the pudding about the debts, surprised you know already what is in the May 2011 accounts, maybe you are the witch. I'm no phoney, no stooge. As I've said, just a fan of Everton FC and have been for 27 years, through pretty much thin and thin. I'm not sure it's been thinner than now though when we've been resorted to ridiculous in fighting. What is crazy is that in part I agree with you that we need a change, Kenwright and his various chief execs et al haven't done a good job, in fact it's been a bit of a mess. I just get the feeling that they are doing their best to try and sort it out, through their own doing it's with both hands tied behind their back though.

I agree that debt's have increased, it only appears in the last twelve months that they seem to be trying to do something about it, at the expense of the squad, but something has to give if Earl won't put his hand in his rather deep pocket.

What we differ on opinion is that I believe you and a few others are trying to stir up some big protest that will change the board and bring in some investment. I believe you are hoping and shouting for a miracle because at the moment there isn't an alternative out there, we can't force them out if there is no alternative. If we do, we might end up with a Ridsdale. My opinion is the negativity you and others create impacts on the atmosphere of the club and the team. I might be wrong but my opinion is that it can't exactly have a positive influence on it.

I'm new to commenting on toffeeweb, I used to comment on football matters on the official site but stopped some 6 months ago when they started vetting all the comments and anything negative wasn't published. Just thought I would give Toffeeweb a try and can't believe the reaction I got. Lads, it's pathetic. Just because someone doesn't agree with some of the vitriol directed at the board and thinks that we should be doing our utmost to try and look at the positives (there are a few to be fair), you pass them off as an insider or stooge of the club. God forbid a fan that doesn't agree with you. Clearly not many did given the lack of protests.

For me, in life, you don't whinge about things you can't affect. You don't whinge about mistakes from the past, they only poison your opinion on the present and the future.

Let's hope the future isn't as bleak as some of you would have us believe.

If you want to win support to your arguments, try reasoned arguments rather than being aggressive and dismissive of people as stooges just because perhaps they don't fully understand the ins and outs of the situation. Personally, I'm just sick of all the negativity.

I'll leave you girls to it now.

Colin - your figures for this years wages bill and your inferences about the debt are worrying to all supporters of the club.

We have all seen the estimates of incoming & outgoing cash in the media, we can all see the 'snapshot' of our financial status up to May 2010 in the accounts so one way you could have come to these figures is that you have been doing your own calculations? I along with many others would contend that if you have used media figures you will end up with a figure that is inaccurate.

On the other hand you do occasionally seem to come up with information about the club that most are not privy to ? I assume you have a lot of contacts around the club?

Are your figures arrived at using one of these contacts? In which case that source must be pretty high up in the club?

Dan, stop being pathetic.

You've been working with primary school kids, so what would you do if you had a group of destructuve kids in class? Would you carry on giving them all gold stars, it would you try and seperate them?

The bless haven't all of a sudden tried to address the debt. They have been systematically selling assets in order to survive as well as increasing debt. There is only a finite amount of bricks and mortar to sell, we also had the Rooney money otherwise this situation would have come sooner.

So Dan, again, seriously are you suggesting that wishful thinking will make all this disappear? I'm sorry, but I can't believe that as things stand all will be happily ever after.

I thought ToffeeWeb was supposed to be a site for Everton fans not a propaganda site for Blue union, for fuck's sake lets all get behind the team.

Arteta is no great loss.

The Blue Union are Everton fans.

The mysterious John Farmer appears again chanting the same mantra........

I really dont know what the agument is about.

There can be no doubt in anyone's mind that Kenwright is an incompetent, lying charlatan who together with his "Friends of Everton" have taken the club to record debts and created a culture totally opposite to that of the image of "The People's club".

It is not the fans fault that there is so much negativity when the squad is being reduced every year in quality and quantity at a time when even footballs minnows are einvesting in their playing squads.

The point is what is the solution.

Well first of all like any sensible person you have to get rid of the poor management and look to bring in someone better.

IMO an interim board with a set agenda would be the ideal solution and it worked for the other lot so why not us.

There can be no doubt in the minds of most Evertonians that Kenwright has to go and go soon.

Looking for investment and failing for 11 years alone should make him a candidate for dusty bin let alone the litany of lies, deceipt and anti fans actions under his regime.

Peter #47
The mysterious John Farmer has been watching Everton for over 50 years and not missed a home game for 20 years. I have seen the good times and the bad.