Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Effete Evertonians...
60 Comments: I can't believe some still defend Kenwright, if he'd spoken to supporters at the start and said:
"Look lads, I've got just enough to buy the shares and my Spurs mates who are minted say they'll help me through choppy business waters... whaddya say?"
How much are they putting in, Bill ? and what's in it for them?
"Nothing...... they're financial geniuses...... they reckon I can just keep remortgaging against the assets and flog players, it won't cost me a bean beyond the shares.....clever eh?......and get this.....they reckon we can move to a shopping arcade in Kirkby with new chippies an' everything!"
Err..... a new production is it Bill? A shakespearian spoof...."The Taming of the Blue"?
It's nonsense and we're reaping the rewards of sowing this crap, chase him and his cohorts out and someone will come.
£300 or 400 mill to people who want real high profile that only a handful of clubs ? AND THIS IS ONE ? can provide is piss all to them... BUT THEY WON'T DEAL WITH FOOLS!!! Stop making excuses for him, anyone with eyes in their head can see he's the obstacle ? he has to go.
Trevor Mackie, Posted 04/09/2011 at 20:57:44
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It wouldn't need £300-400 million in the short term. We need some savvy owners who can buy Bill out and run us better. That would be a start...
I don't even bother discussing Bill Kenwright with his deluded "supporters" these days.
Even if his inept handling of this club took us all the way to the Conference they'd still defend him.
Even if his inept handling of this club took us all the way to the Conference they'd still defend him.
Ste hits the nail on the head. There are too many blues simply willing to follow along no matter what happens.
I can't attend any meetings of the blue union as I'm based in Australia but I was dissappointed to see it only drew 500-600 people.
Considering the state of our great club I expected thousands upon thousands to voice their anger. Fans of any other so called big club would have done it. Because they still think like a big club and demand more than most of us seem to.
I can't attend any meetings of the blue union as I'm based in Australia but I was dissappointed to see it only drew 500-600 people.
Considering the state of our great club I expected thousands upon thousands to voice their anger. Fans of any other so called big club would have done it. Because they still think like a big club and demand more than most of us seem to.
And it's his birthday today - give him a break guys !
Trevor, have a day off pal will you. Kenwright's incompetent but you've just made buying a football club sound like playdays. Everyone's an economist and business guru on here nowadays.
Up the Toffees.
Up the Toffees.
Kenwright... sorry.
Ste #£
Who is "defending" Blue Bill on this thread?
Who is "defending" Blue Bill on this thread?
We aren't asking for a guru we are asking for anyone who isn't completely incompetent.
Bill's strongest point is he hasn't led the club to a quick demise. He does love the club so he doesn't want to see it go bottom up, hence the recent player sales but other than that he is a failure, just to many stuff ups now to have any chance of making the club successful.
Bill's strongest point is he hasn't led the club to a quick demise. He does love the club so he doesn't want to see it go bottom up, hence the recent player sales but other than that he is a failure, just to many stuff ups now to have any chance of making the club successful.
Brendan #8.
Not many are 'defending' Kenwright in this thread but others do on other threads, other fansites, in the pub, or at the match.
Not many are 'defending' Kenwright in this thread but others do on other threads, other fansites, in the pub, or at the match.
Drive out Kenwright and someone will come in? And what if they don't? It's far too dangerous to have that kind of attitude/approach.
And this idea that there are plenty of people ready to throw "£300/400m" at Everton, but they are put off by Kenwright being a bit of a tit? Come on, if someone really wanted to buy Everton then they would deal with the devil for the short period required to get the club.
Trying to be as even as possible, the only thing like that that could be putting people off is if Kenwright has some unreasonable demand, i.e. being kept as chairman, although, if the Blue Union meeting is to be believed (which I guess it should) then he doesn't want to be around the club much longer, at least not in an official capacity.
I'm not for one second saying that Kenwright has done everything right at Everton, and without a doubt, his big failure has been on the stadium front. But, that aside, I think he's done a half-decent job of running the club, with limited resources (albeit linked with his previously stated stadium failures).
A lot of us are saying we did well out of the Arteta deal, and I think our squad is at a pretty similar level to last season, but with £20m having come in. So, if this goes to the debt (and I know we don't know for sure yet where it is going/has gone), then we would be in a much better financial state all round, especially considering £21.1m of the debt isn't yet due for repayment.
Obviously the money could get spirited away, and that would be terrible, but I guess we've got to assume that Barclays will take what is rightly theirs, and wipe it off the debt.
Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but oh well.
And this idea that there are plenty of people ready to throw "£300/400m" at Everton, but they are put off by Kenwright being a bit of a tit? Come on, if someone really wanted to buy Everton then they would deal with the devil for the short period required to get the club.
Trying to be as even as possible, the only thing like that that could be putting people off is if Kenwright has some unreasonable demand, i.e. being kept as chairman, although, if the Blue Union meeting is to be believed (which I guess it should) then he doesn't want to be around the club much longer, at least not in an official capacity.
I'm not for one second saying that Kenwright has done everything right at Everton, and without a doubt, his big failure has been on the stadium front. But, that aside, I think he's done a half-decent job of running the club, with limited resources (albeit linked with his previously stated stadium failures).
A lot of us are saying we did well out of the Arteta deal, and I think our squad is at a pretty similar level to last season, but with £20m having come in. So, if this goes to the debt (and I know we don't know for sure yet where it is going/has gone), then we would be in a much better financial state all round, especially considering £21.1m of the debt isn't yet due for repayment.
Obviously the money could get spirited away, and that would be terrible, but I guess we've got to assume that Barclays will take what is rightly theirs, and wipe it off the debt.
Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but oh well.
Tom, it is perfectly possible for BK to step aside and retain his shares whilst awaiting a sale. The meeting with BU showed he is vehemently against stepping aside or allowing anyone near the club to sell it, that alone smacks of the delusional fat controller not willing to give up the train set many of us have tried to preach over the years only to be mocked by the so-called knowing. Getting rid of BK as a chairman or indeed any one of his board would make fuck all difference as not ONE of them are actually spending any money on the club.
The squad isn't pretty much the same as last season now either, Tom ? it's now at a record low of 18 first team members. The banks will call in their debts but who got the club into the spiral of debt it's now in?
The squad isn't pretty much the same as last season now either, Tom ? it's now at a record low of 18 first team members. The banks will call in their debts but who got the club into the spiral of debt it's now in?
Gavin at #12.
Precisely.
Precisely.
Good post by Gav Ram.
I have been asking on here and elsewhere for a good while now for a coherent defence of Kenwright. The only points in his favour seem to be:
1 ? He's an Evertonian like us.
2 ? He has run the club prudently with minimal debt
3 ? Be careful what you wish for, better the devil you know.
Well 1 is irrelevant, 2 is not true and 3 is based on fear and not rational analysis.
So would someone please post a defence of Kenwright and why he is a suitable Chairman for our club?
I have been asking on here and elsewhere for a good while now for a coherent defence of Kenwright. The only points in his favour seem to be:
1 ? He's an Evertonian like us.
2 ? He has run the club prudently with minimal debt
3 ? Be careful what you wish for, better the devil you know.
Well 1 is irrelevant, 2 is not true and 3 is based on fear and not rational analysis.
So would someone please post a defence of Kenwright and why he is a suitable Chairman for our club?
I don't see how anyone can believe he adds a shread of value to the club after reading the BU transcript.
He's a delusional idiot with no grasp of what's going on, or he's a marvellous actor hell bent on leading Evertonians up the garden path to safeguard his own investment?
He's a delusional idiot with no grasp of what's going on, or he's a marvellous actor hell bent on leading Evertonians up the garden path to safeguard his own investment?
Tom,
The facts are the current board invest no money into the club. So we don?t need someone with £400 million. Someone willing to put even a few million in would be a step in the right direction. As would someone with some business sense and a solid strategy for progress.
Look at the track record. Yes, Bill has no money but the business plan over the last few years has been to survive by selling off some of our best players. We may be able to survive for quite some time with a strategy like that but its hardly going to turn us into a footballing force again is it?
Bill isn?t the worst chairman we could have. He won?t run us into the ground quickly. We won?t come to a crashing fall under him. Make no mistake ? under his leadership the club is going under but he will do it bit by bit, step by slow step. It's like watching a slow car crash.
@4 Russell ? The attendance at the Blue Union meeting was fantastic so no worries there. It was only arranged a few days before, the hall was packed out and some couldn't get in. There were also plenty of people who couldn't go.
Dont worry over in Oz, there is not a single Evertonian who is happy with the current situation and what was so great about the meeting was the unity amongst the fans. We want change and to arrest the decline of this great club.
Short term the best way we can register our discontent is to support the march /demo prior to the match against Villa and then from kick-off onwards burst our lungs in support of the team. Oh and why not 2 minutes silence at the end of the game, whatever the result?
As supporters, one thing that we must do is keep criticism of Kenwright realistic. One of the board's favourite moves is to call us a 'delusional minority' and by claiming that there are lots of investors with £3/400m being out foxed by the brilliant blue knight plays right into their hands.
Keep criticism to what we know for a fact.
Keep criticism to what we know for a fact.
I have supported the blues for over 50 years and seen them win 8 major trophies in that time and I do simpathise with today's younger Evertonians, but I believe protest marches will give out bad vibes to the players and the performance against Villa will suffer, and the kopites will gloat at the unrest in our club.
Mick #17... I would argue that not EVERY Evertonian is unhappy with the current situation... Richard Dodd & Dave Wilson seem pretty happy with how things are being run both on and off the field....
Nelly.
Richard and Dave use the computer when their carers' backs are turned.
They've been warned before...
Richard and Dave use the computer when their carers' backs are turned.
They've been warned before...
Daniel... just how can the Red Shite gloat? They did EXACTLY the same to get rid of Waldorf & Stadler. It would show them up to be the hypercritical bastards they really are. Besides, do we really care what they think? If it gets rid of the incompetent pricks who are now in control then we should all be behind it. Something has to be done to voice the displeasure of the majority ? NOT the minority, as certain sections of the media and playing staff would have us believe. I hope this really is the beginning of the end for Kenwright & his cronies... and I include the manager in that.
Well, if we don't protest somehow then change won't happen will it?
BK and his cronies are running EFC into the ground. Fans of other clubs are starting to see how knackered we are, why can't fellow blues?
Jesus H Corbett, what a mess we are in...
BK and his cronies are running EFC into the ground. Fans of other clubs are starting to see how knackered we are, why can't fellow blues?
Jesus H Corbett, what a mess we are in...
The fat controller perfectly sums the man up. Well said.
If somebody with £300 - 400M to spend wanted to buy Everton Football Club, there would be nothing BK could do to stop it. He does not own a majority of shares and I have no doubt Bill's cronies would be only too happy to sell theirs from under his feet.
But it's no good accusing BK of being delusional (even if he is) and then spouting equally delusional nonsense about such a buyer being somewhere out there ready to pounce.
But it's no good accusing BK of being delusional (even if he is) and then spouting equally delusional nonsense about such a buyer being somewhere out there ready to pounce.
I am afraid we come right back to the stadium issue here. Without a stadium more in tune with the modern business of football, nobody will entertain buying the club. The stadium of any football club is the primary generator of income and without one attuned to that generation of income in the modern football world, and the Grand Old Lady certainly isn't, we are on a loser.
We are disadvantaged by being one of two clubs in a relatively small city with a relatively small catchment area. That alone is not insurmountable. We are also disadvantaged by our lack of recent success and kudos when compared to our local competitor and consequent much smaller brand. That is also not insurmountable. But these disadvantages, when added to the straw which broke the camel's back, the stadium, makes the situation of finding a new owner very difficult at best and perhaps even impossible.
Find a way of getting the stadium issue resolved and you will have probably solved the problem. Until then, you can march around Walton all you like but it aint going to make any difference.
I don't think anyone can defend Kenwright, I think the people who are being labelled as Kenwright lovers are just a bit more clued up than the "Let's run him out of town" brigade.
Getting rid is one thing but no-one has put any names forward as who should take over the interim board? In fact, who would want the job?
We need a new owner, we all know that, but you just have to be realistic ? in the current climate, why would anyone want to throw round 100s millions of pounds on a football club that does not have a worldwide following and hence is not a great investment, and that's before we get started on the ground!!!
And you cannot compare our prediciment with Liverpool, they even have Libyan rebel fighters wearing the latest home kit as seen on the BBC news!!!
As for protest marches before games, well that's not going to help the atompshere at the ground or the team. Why not have the protest after the game?? Or are people worried we might win the game and that will take the sting out the tail??
Getting rid is one thing but no-one has put any names forward as who should take over the interim board? In fact, who would want the job?
We need a new owner, we all know that, but you just have to be realistic ? in the current climate, why would anyone want to throw round 100s millions of pounds on a football club that does not have a worldwide following and hence is not a great investment, and that's before we get started on the ground!!!
And you cannot compare our prediciment with Liverpool, they even have Libyan rebel fighters wearing the latest home kit as seen on the BBC news!!!
As for protest marches before games, well that's not going to help the atompshere at the ground or the team. Why not have the protest after the game?? Or are people worried we might win the game and that will take the sting out the tail??
Dave Roberts # 25,
Gate receipts = £19.2m.
Broadcasting revenue = £ 49.6m.
Proof that matchday income is dwarfed by TV revenues.
Maybe that's the reason why this board are holding out for top dollar?
As soon as pay-per-veiw PL matches are shown across the globe, Bill & friends stand to make a fortune if they sell at the right time.
Wake up, this is big business.
Gate receipts = £19.2m.
Broadcasting revenue = £ 49.6m.
Proof that matchday income is dwarfed by TV revenues.
Maybe that's the reason why this board are holding out for top dollar?
As soon as pay-per-veiw PL matches are shown across the globe, Bill & friends stand to make a fortune if they sell at the right time.
Wake up, this is big business.
Dave #25 ? explain how QPR got a buyer? ... shite stadium in a city of many more clubs.
I very much doubt Martin Broughton would have any trouble brokering a deal for new ownership of EFC. Keith Harris is one of Bill's mates ? just a clown, like him, and probably told to be another yes-man, just like Elstone.
Gavin,
I think Fernandes said something along the lines of "The appeal of owning a London football club was to hard to resist". I'm afraid I doubt he looked past the Watford Gap.
I think Fernandes said something along the lines of "The appeal of owning a London football club was to hard to resist". I'm afraid I doubt he looked past the Watford Gap.
Craig,
"We need a new owner, we all know that but you just have to be realistic ? in the current climate, why would anyone want to throw round 100s millions of pounds on a football club that does not have a worldwide following and hence is not a great investment, and that's before we get started on the ground!!!"
Apply all that to QPR then ask how much they will need to spend just to stay in the division, upgrade the dire Loftus Rd, and try and work out how much thier 'brand' is worth compared to ours?
Then ask how much they will need to spend to get anywhere near us in the Premier League and you have a total of hundreds of millions.
Everton need a phased update to our stadium and the ability to go and buy upcoming players who can develop. Probably £10-15m a season.
This money could be generated by the ground improvement and boosting our commercial dept alone. That means any investor needs to come to the table with the money to buy the shares and a modest pot to improve the business.
Even a leveraged buyout wouldn't be disastrous for the club assuming some working capital and business acumen was brought to the club in return.
Depending on what the sale price of the club was (???), the total investment could be around £150m or less. Nothing to sniff at but certainly nowhere near what's gone into other, some may say lesser, clubs.
"We need a new owner, we all know that but you just have to be realistic ? in the current climate, why would anyone want to throw round 100s millions of pounds on a football club that does not have a worldwide following and hence is not a great investment, and that's before we get started on the ground!!!"
Apply all that to QPR then ask how much they will need to spend just to stay in the division, upgrade the dire Loftus Rd, and try and work out how much thier 'brand' is worth compared to ours?
Then ask how much they will need to spend to get anywhere near us in the Premier League and you have a total of hundreds of millions.
Everton need a phased update to our stadium and the ability to go and buy upcoming players who can develop. Probably £10-15m a season.
This money could be generated by the ground improvement and boosting our commercial dept alone. That means any investor needs to come to the table with the money to buy the shares and a modest pot to improve the business.
Even a leveraged buyout wouldn't be disastrous for the club assuming some working capital and business acumen was brought to the club in return.
Depending on what the sale price of the club was (???), the total investment could be around £150m or less. Nothing to sniff at but certainly nowhere near what's gone into other, some may say lesser, clubs.
I'll be a succinct as possible with regards to Bill Kenwright and the board of directors. A) What price are Everton currently valued at B) Covering personal investment and debt how much would each director stand to make given the asking price was met C) Why would an interim board fail to deliver on its objectives i.e. find the said buyer without all of the meddling and pre-conditions likely to be imposed by the current directors.
We are currently being dumbed down, QPR have been out of the top-flight for 15 years, they have more illustrious local neighbours with a bigger fan-base / revenue streams / stadiums
When Wayne Rooney was at Everton he put bums on seats, the row in front of me in the Upper Bullens road was filled with 4-5 kids and a couple of Mum's who in my opinion shared the excitement and came along for the ride with the excitement generated. The following season when Wayne was gone - you guess so had the floating fans.
Everton has a fantastic tradition, remarkable history, commited and loyal fanbase. Although the stadium is dilapidated it is still referred to as a 'proper football venue' - Alex Ferguson, Harry Redknapp etc etc
We need to harness these qualities, break the mould and regenerate Goodison Park, fusing the old with the new sympathetically. We need vision not stagnation, we are Everton - a grand old team. Sack the Board, Support the Team
We are currently being dumbed down, QPR have been out of the top-flight for 15 years, they have more illustrious local neighbours with a bigger fan-base / revenue streams / stadiums
When Wayne Rooney was at Everton he put bums on seats, the row in front of me in the Upper Bullens road was filled with 4-5 kids and a couple of Mum's who in my opinion shared the excitement and came along for the ride with the excitement generated. The following season when Wayne was gone - you guess so had the floating fans.
Everton has a fantastic tradition, remarkable history, commited and loyal fanbase. Although the stadium is dilapidated it is still referred to as a 'proper football venue' - Alex Ferguson, Harry Redknapp etc etc
We need to harness these qualities, break the mould and regenerate Goodison Park, fusing the old with the new sympathetically. We need vision not stagnation, we are Everton - a grand old team. Sack the Board, Support the Team
I'll be a succinct as possible with regards to Bill Kenwright and the board of directors. A) What price are Everton currently valued at B) Covering personal investment and debt how much would each director stand to make given the asking price was met C) Why would an interim board fail to deliver on its objectives i.e. find the said buyer without all of the meddling and pre-conditions likely to be imposed by the current directors.
We are currently being dumbed down, QPR have been out of the top-flight for 15 years, they have more illustrious local neighbours with a bigger fan-base / revenue streams / stadiums
When Wayne Rooney was at Everton he put bums on seats, the row in front of me in the Upper Bullens road was filled with 4-5 kids and a couple of Mum's who in my opinion shared the excitement and came along for the ride with the excitement generated. The following season when Wayne was gone - you guess so had the floating fans.
Everton has a fantastic tradition, remarkable history, commited and loyal fanbase. Although the stadium is dilapidated it is still referred to as a 'proper football venue' - Alex Ferguson, Harry Redknapp etc etc
We need to harness these qualities, break the mould and regenerate Goodison Park, fusing the old with the new sympathetically. We need vision not stagnation, we are Everton - a grand old team. Sack the Board, Support the Team
We are currently being dumbed down, QPR have been out of the top-flight for 15 years, they have more illustrious local neighbours with a bigger fan-base / revenue streams / stadiums
When Wayne Rooney was at Everton he put bums on seats, the row in front of me in the Upper Bullens road was filled with 4-5 kids and a couple of Mum's who in my opinion shared the excitement and came along for the ride with the excitement generated. The following season when Wayne was gone - you guess so had the floating fans.
Everton has a fantastic tradition, remarkable history, commited and loyal fanbase. Although the stadium is dilapidated it is still referred to as a 'proper football venue' - Alex Ferguson, Harry Redknapp etc etc
We need to harness these qualities, break the mould and regenerate Goodison Park, fusing the old with the new sympathetically. We need vision not stagnation, we are Everton - a grand old team. Sack the Board, Support the Team
I'll be a succinct as possible with regards to Bill Kenwright and the board of directors. A) What price are Everton currently valued at B) Covering personal investment and debt how much would each director stand to make given the asking price was met C) Why would an interim board fail to deliver on its objectives i.e. find the said buyer without all of the meddling and pre-conditions likely to be imposed by the current directors.
We are currently being dumbed down, QPR have been out of the top-flight for 15 years, they have more illustrious local neighbours with a bigger fan-base / revenue streams / stadiums
When Wayne Rooney was at Everton he put bums on seats, the row in front of me in the Upper Bullens road was filled with 4-5 kids and a couple of Mum's who in my opinion shared the excitement and came along for the ride with the excitement generated. The following season when Wayne was gone - you guess so had the floating fans.
Everton has a fantastic tradition, remarkable history, commited and loyal fanbase. Although the stadium is dilapidated it is still referred to as a 'proper football venue' - Alex Ferguson, Harry Redknapp etc etc
We need to harness these qualities, break the mould and regenerate Goodison Park, fusing the old with the new sympathetically. We need vision not stagnation, we are Everton - a grand old team. Sack the Board, Support the Team
We are currently being dumbed down, QPR have been out of the top-flight for 15 years, they have more illustrious local neighbours with a bigger fan-base / revenue streams / stadiums
When Wayne Rooney was at Everton he put bums on seats, the row in front of me in the Upper Bullens road was filled with 4-5 kids and a couple of Mum's who in my opinion shared the excitement and came along for the ride with the excitement generated. The following season when Wayne was gone - you guess so had the floating fans.
Everton has a fantastic tradition, remarkable history, commited and loyal fanbase. Although the stadium is dilapidated it is still referred to as a 'proper football venue' - Alex Ferguson, Harry Redknapp etc etc
We need to harness these qualities, break the mould and regenerate Goodison Park, fusing the old with the new sympathetically. We need vision not stagnation, we are Everton - a grand old team. Sack the Board, Support the Team
Peter Laing.
You do have a point there, Peter, we should be stressing the POSITIVES of Goodison...first purpose built football stadium in the world, first stadium with dug outs, nets, corner flags,etc., ANYTHING that puts it in a positive light. Even try and get listed status if possible.(after we do some obvious improvements) It's pretty obvious everyone thinks Goodison is a millstone around our necks but if we market it correctly and make the best of a bad lot thenit might work.
You do have a point there, Peter, we should be stressing the POSITIVES of Goodison...first purpose built football stadium in the world, first stadium with dug outs, nets, corner flags,etc., ANYTHING that puts it in a positive light. Even try and get listed status if possible.(after we do some obvious improvements) It's pretty obvious everyone thinks Goodison is a millstone around our necks but if we market it correctly and make the best of a bad lot thenit might work.
Ray the work undertaken by Tom Hughes regarding the potential to upgrade Goodison Park around the time of DK was very interesting. To me the bog-standard, identi-kit, souless stadia that has been produced in the UK during the past 20 years has contributed to the bland, sterile feeling of 'you could be anywhere' scenario. Goodison Park for all its faults is the antithesis to such blandness, we desperately need an upgrade, better corporate facilities, access to toilets and concessions. Regeneration of Goodison can be done, it worked at Celtic Park, Ibrox, Old Trafford etc, the footprint / cost argument can be negated by innovative thinking. In terms of brands - Adidas seem to do pretty well from their originals range, their is a market for retro its just untapped in the current climate.
When are people going to understand that Everton is NOT an attractive investment opportunity, no matter how you dress it up.
Living off our history has cost us, and continues to cost us. We do live off the past, and no matter how much it means to you or I, it means little or nothing to anyone outside the club. People really do use this as a stixk to beat us with, and we've become an absolute laughing stock with our 'if y'know yer 'istory' bullshit. It's time Evertonians woke up and let history go.
Goodison is a crappy stadium, in a crappy location, run by a crappy board with only a half decent team these days - tell me one good reason why anyone would want to buy Everton?
I can't think of any.
Living off our history has cost us, and continues to cost us. We do live off the past, and no matter how much it means to you or I, it means little or nothing to anyone outside the club. People really do use this as a stixk to beat us with, and we've become an absolute laughing stock with our 'if y'know yer 'istory' bullshit. It's time Evertonians woke up and let history go.
Goodison is a crappy stadium, in a crappy location, run by a crappy board with only a half decent team these days - tell me one good reason why anyone would want to buy Everton?
I can't think of any.
James @37. Errr I was born next to Goodison and spent my early formative years there; albeit that was too many years ago ! So I go with the view that Goodison is fast becoming one of the few traditional stadiums left in the EPL, if not all four divisions of any note. Still in touch with its roots and embedded in the community it has shared space with for 100 years.
I was always brought up to cherish my heritage and Everton and it's home are very much a part of the City's heritage. The problem is that it isn't marketed well by the Club and you get the impression that the LCC and local / national media would rather we weren't there and ignore us and our contribution to the City's culture in favour of the other lot; who in real terms may have won more trophies but have been a top division side for less than 50 years.
I was always brought up to cherish my heritage and Everton and it's home are very much a part of the City's heritage. The problem is that it isn't marketed well by the Club and you get the impression that the LCC and local / national media would rather we weren't there and ignore us and our contribution to the City's culture in favour of the other lot; who in real terms may have won more trophies but have been a top division side for less than 50 years.
Well said Steve Pugh #19
just keep to the facts..
just keep to the facts..
Steve@38 - fair enough mate, but my point is that to potential investors, they couldn't give a toss about the heritage and the way things are going - all that stuff simply holds us back. Goodison is a piece of history, but thats about it - history is not investable.
Why does having a traditional stadium matter so much? I know why it matters to you, and I love Goodison too - but to outsiders why would they care? The future of EFC is NOT about its history, its about its future.
Why does having a traditional stadium matter so much? I know why it matters to you, and I love Goodison too - but to outsiders why would they care? The future of EFC is NOT about its history, its about its future.
'£300 or 400 mill to people who want real high profile that only a handful of clubs ? AND THIS IS ONE ? can provide is piss all to them...'
Lol which planet?
Lol which planet?
It's ridiculous to say that if we "market it correctly" then everyone else will start to believe it's an incredible stadium.
Never mind that potential investors don't give one about it being a "grand old lady", neither do other football supporters. I know an Ipswich Town fan, who said that Goodison Park is the worst stadium they've ever been in. All the people, outside of the Everton fanbase, who laud the stadium as one of the "great footballing stadia left" are managers, or journalists, who don't experience the same side of the stadium as normal fans, both home and away.
And yeh, potential investors would quite like some history that they can exploit to comercial gain, but if you look deep enough, they can find history in anything, just look at Man City, with their retro kits and the like. The difference is that retro kits still sell for modern day prices, whereas old battered stadia like Goodison, don'r bring in modern levels of income.
Never mind that potential investors don't give one about it being a "grand old lady", neither do other football supporters. I know an Ipswich Town fan, who said that Goodison Park is the worst stadium they've ever been in. All the people, outside of the Everton fanbase, who laud the stadium as one of the "great footballing stadia left" are managers, or journalists, who don't experience the same side of the stadium as normal fans, both home and away.
And yeh, potential investors would quite like some history that they can exploit to comercial gain, but if you look deep enough, they can find history in anything, just look at Man City, with their retro kits and the like. The difference is that retro kits still sell for modern day prices, whereas old battered stadia like Goodison, don'r bring in modern levels of income.
Anyone with an ounce of vision can see the potential in EFC despite Kenwright and "Friends of Everton" running us gradualy into the ground through asset stripping and record debt.
EFC have anongst the lowest number of corporate facilities in the premieship.
I believe we have about 10 boxes whereas Villa and Spurs have about 40.
I may be wrong on the actual numbers but the point is we have so much opportunity on that alone.
There cant be many who disagree that our merchandising effort is woeful at best with the Chairman stating that only Newcastle supporters buy shirts.
There are few initiatives to generate extra income by having special events and organising package deals.
A small amount spent on increasing capacity at the Park end would certainly give a good return on investment.
The creation of a football museum and heritage tours would also add potential.
STICKING your head in the sand and doing nothing like this board are doing is not an option.
The globalisation of football presents so much opportunity but we need vision to reap rewards not an inactive ineffectual board.
EFC have anongst the lowest number of corporate facilities in the premieship.
I believe we have about 10 boxes whereas Villa and Spurs have about 40.
I may be wrong on the actual numbers but the point is we have so much opportunity on that alone.
There cant be many who disagree that our merchandising effort is woeful at best with the Chairman stating that only Newcastle supporters buy shirts.
There are few initiatives to generate extra income by having special events and organising package deals.
A small amount spent on increasing capacity at the Park end would certainly give a good return on investment.
The creation of a football museum and heritage tours would also add potential.
STICKING your head in the sand and doing nothing like this board are doing is not an option.
The globalisation of football presents so much opportunity but we need vision to reap rewards not an inactive ineffectual board.
Tom Fearon
I'm not suggesting that if we "market it correctly" anyone will believe it is anything other than what it really is, an old stadium requiring some modernisation to it's facilities. But you have to go with what you've got and if all we've got is an historic old stadium than that's it. Big up any positives that you can.Personally, I don't give a flying furk about Ipswich or it's fans. Ipswich is a one horse town if ever I've seen one, but the people there like it. And why not? I'd like to see Goodison dramatically improved but I'd also like to see the basic, original architectural designs by Archibald Leitch remain, I'd hate to go to a soulless stadium like the Reebok every other week. But that doesn't make me a Luddite.
James Marshall.
"The future of EFC is NOT about its history, its about its future. " Correct up to a point, but I'd rather have investors who would respect our history than someone who would come in and sweep it all away. Change can be good up to a point but would you rather look at some of the dreadfull 60's rubbish that replaced some of the beautiful Edwardian/Victorian buildings? I wouldn't.
I'm not suggesting that if we "market it correctly" anyone will believe it is anything other than what it really is, an old stadium requiring some modernisation to it's facilities. But you have to go with what you've got and if all we've got is an historic old stadium than that's it. Big up any positives that you can.Personally, I don't give a flying furk about Ipswich or it's fans. Ipswich is a one horse town if ever I've seen one, but the people there like it. And why not? I'd like to see Goodison dramatically improved but I'd also like to see the basic, original architectural designs by Archibald Leitch remain, I'd hate to go to a soulless stadium like the Reebok every other week. But that doesn't make me a Luddite.
James Marshall.
"The future of EFC is NOT about its history, its about its future. " Correct up to a point, but I'd rather have investors who would respect our history than someone who would come in and sweep it all away. Change can be good up to a point but would you rather look at some of the dreadfull 60's rubbish that replaced some of the beautiful Edwardian/Victorian buildings? I wouldn't.
n defence on here he is a complete joke now even if he is a fan as well as a chairman, he is making everton the laughing stock of the prem, god even stoke outspend us, whats going on
Stoke out-spend us? I would like to see how much their salaries for the last five years have been compared to ours. I would be amazed if it matched 70% of our outlay. It's not about loving BK, it's just appreciating what he's done for the club. BK wants to sell, come up with a buyer who is good for EFC and, if the current board refuses to sell, then you have a cause.
Onward Evertonians
Onward Evertonians
Gary could you please explain what Kenwright has done for our club?
It shouldn't take long!!
We already have a cause:
Kenwright Out.
It shouldn't take long!!
We already have a cause:
Kenwright Out.
Gavin
Sorry for the late reply.
London has always been a special case. Every London Borough is a virtual city in terms of population. There is a huge catchment area and there is also the special attraction of being not only in the south but in the Capital.
Greater London can accommodate many football clubs. With the best will in the world Walton does not have the same attraction. Why do you think West Ham got a buyer just when they needed one? Because the buyers thought they were getting a free stadium, that's why. That's how important stadia are nowadays. That's why we have a problem.
Sorry for the late reply.
London has always been a special case. Every London Borough is a virtual city in terms of population. There is a huge catchment area and there is also the special attraction of being not only in the south but in the Capital.
Greater London can accommodate many football clubs. With the best will in the world Walton does not have the same attraction. Why do you think West Ham got a buyer just when they needed one? Because the buyers thought they were getting a free stadium, that's why. That's how important stadia are nowadays. That's why we have a problem.
There's no need to get all arsey about Ipswich, I was just making a point about how Goodison is viewed by normal football fans, who don't have the emotional attachment.
And, Ray, you said that you would "rather have investors who would respect our history than someone who would come in and sweep it all away." I completely agree with that, but my issue is that people seem to want Kenwright out at any cost, and if that is pursued, and is successful, then we could end up with just anybody, and it is likely to be someone who doesn't respect the history.
Kenwright has stated many times that his aim is to keep Everton above water, until someone can come in who has enough money, and who will treat Everton the way he thinks we should be treated. This seems to be exactly what you, and I, are after.
I'm not for one second saying he's done a great job of this, as he obviously hasn't found anyone suitable yet, but maybe if whatever group could help find alternatives, be it buyers, investors, or stadium solutions, then that would be a start, and would be something I personally would get fully behind.
And, Ray, you said that you would "rather have investors who would respect our history than someone who would come in and sweep it all away." I completely agree with that, but my issue is that people seem to want Kenwright out at any cost, and if that is pursued, and is successful, then we could end up with just anybody, and it is likely to be someone who doesn't respect the history.
Kenwright has stated many times that his aim is to keep Everton above water, until someone can come in who has enough money, and who will treat Everton the way he thinks we should be treated. This seems to be exactly what you, and I, are after.
I'm not for one second saying he's done a great job of this, as he obviously hasn't found anyone suitable yet, but maybe if whatever group could help find alternatives, be it buyers, investors, or stadium solutions, then that would be a start, and would be something I personally would get fully behind.
Tom #50 you're completely wrong and that is the kind of lies BK and the Echo would have everyone believe (that Evertonians want BK out at ALL costs).
The focus on the campaign is NOT "Kenwright Out" but rather "bring someone in with the business sense to take the club forward" . (Note to non-Evertonians: They don't have to be a billionaire!!)
You may think I'm splitting hairs but it's a "glass half-empty/full" thing. A "Kenwright Out" campaign makes us look like Neanderthal idiots with no clue, but a "We want change" campaign makes us look like we've thought this through seriously (which we have!)
I like BK... met him, nice bloke... but the failings of him and his board have raised concerns that someone else may be better in this financial climate and era of football, to lead the club forward.
The focus on the campaign is NOT "Kenwright Out" but rather "bring someone in with the business sense to take the club forward" . (Note to non-Evertonians: They don't have to be a billionaire!!)
You may think I'm splitting hairs but it's a "glass half-empty/full" thing. A "Kenwright Out" campaign makes us look like Neanderthal idiots with no clue, but a "We want change" campaign makes us look like we've thought this through seriously (which we have!)
I like BK... met him, nice bloke... but the failings of him and his board have raised concerns that someone else may be better in this financial climate and era of football, to lead the club forward.
The bottom line is what profit does Earl / Green expect to make on their investment, Kenwright is caught between a rock and a hard place. An interim board is the only solution once the price has been set, as others have stated Jack Heywood walked away from Wolves, covered his overheads and sold the Club to Steve Morgan for £1. Morgan has come in, breathed new life into the Club - taking care of the stadium and giving McCarthy money to spend. This is Wolves that we are talking about and their fans seem fairly happy with the arrangement.
A few peole missing the point about GP holding us back, its still a 40k stadium and with very little outlay can easily become a 50k stadium, the footprint isnt the problem its the will or funding to do it. Look at the footprint and compare it with other grounds.
Dave many thanks for the response, I' still confused as to this London at all costs malarkey when Everton seem to remain the only club not to have a buyer, they aren't all in London and there are other clubs that share their home city with another team.
An earlier poster mentioned renovated grounds and Ibrox in particular, if you've never been go and take a look at the place. Most of the surrounding area has been flattened for awhile now but think back to Trainspotting and the moment Renton (Ewan McGreggor) gets dragged into the road by his smackhead supplier having overdosed and made to wait for an ambulance, well ladies and gents that was right behind Ibrox and it did look just like that.
Goodison might not be a shiny plastic tub and the facilities are shite but they will be not having had any form of overhaul or upgrade for as long as I can remember. Piecemeal upgrades of Goodison Park over trying to find money for a new very expensive stadium is a no brainer - if you cant afford a Bentley then you make do, the club cant currently afford more debt and it needs to be looking to walk before it can run.
Dave many thanks for the response, I' still confused as to this London at all costs malarkey when Everton seem to remain the only club not to have a buyer, they aren't all in London and there are other clubs that share their home city with another team.
An earlier poster mentioned renovated grounds and Ibrox in particular, if you've never been go and take a look at the place. Most of the surrounding area has been flattened for awhile now but think back to Trainspotting and the moment Renton (Ewan McGreggor) gets dragged into the road by his smackhead supplier having overdosed and made to wait for an ambulance, well ladies and gents that was right behind Ibrox and it did look just like that.
Goodison might not be a shiny plastic tub and the facilities are shite but they will be not having had any form of overhaul or upgrade for as long as I can remember. Piecemeal upgrades of Goodison Park over trying to find money for a new very expensive stadium is a no brainer - if you cant afford a Bentley then you make do, the club cant currently afford more debt and it needs to be looking to walk before it can run.
James, I see your point, but I haven't been brainwashed by the Echo and/or Kenwright. I have seen it stated many times that it isn't a "Kenwright Out" campaign, but there is a large proportion of the fans who are taking that approach, and you need look no further than the original article itself, "chase him and his cohorts out and someone will come." I just think we have to be careful, as that attitude could leave Everton in a much more perilous position.
But yeh, in the whole, I agree with you, and I agree with the campaign stated aims of the campaign, I just worry with how that is translating down to the masses.
But yeh, in the whole, I agree with you, and I agree with the campaign stated aims of the campaign, I just worry with how that is translating down to the masses.
Tom Fearon
Sorry, Tom, I didn't intend to be all "arsey" about Ipswich, I was just getting a bit protective about Goodison. And you're right, we do appear to be in agreement about investment/investors.
Sorry, Tom, I didn't intend to be all "arsey" about Ipswich, I was just getting a bit protective about Goodison. And you're right, we do appear to be in agreement about investment/investors.
Gavin 53,
Couldn't agree more.
Superb point.
Couldn't agree more.
Superb point.
The problem we have with fans who support Kenwright is that Premier League survival and fighting for shitty Europa League places is good enough for them.
I suspect most who dislike Kenwright believe that we should be challenging for honours and competing for top quality players as well as leading the way in other areas.
I personally expect improvement every season which just isn't happening when you're selling your best players and other assets the club had. Kenwright and board have sold things off without having silverware to back the decision.
I suspect most who dislike Kenwright believe that we should be challenging for honours and competing for top quality players as well as leading the way in other areas.
I personally expect improvement every season which just isn't happening when you're selling your best players and other assets the club had. Kenwright and board have sold things off without having silverware to back the decision.
Tom,
What would you suggest a new owner could come in and do that's so terrible that Kenwright hasn't already done to the club?
What would you suggest a new owner could come in and do that's so terrible that Kenwright hasn't already done to the club?
Speaking of 'the debt' ... people are pushing for quick spending of this cash and that's understandable, but what's this loan that was taken out a few years back, where we have to pay £1.3m a season back? That's a pretty high interest rate, think about what we could buy with £1.3m every year, that's nearly £5m over the last 3 seasons ? imagine what an extra £5m player in the squad could mean.
I think it would be silly to rush into the market when we're now at a point where the youngsters are coming through anyway. If the money has to be paid back then so be it, at least we'll have an extra £1.3m a season from there on. For good or for bad, the transfer bubble has burst, prices are coming back down and unless we pay this off sooner rather than later it may come back to bite us on the backside.
I think it would be silly to rush into the market when we're now at a point where the youngsters are coming through anyway. If the money has to be paid back then so be it, at least we'll have an extra £1.3m a season from there on. For good or for bad, the transfer bubble has burst, prices are coming back down and unless we pay this off sooner rather than later it may come back to bite us on the backside.
I love Everton and the fact that it's run as a level ship is a point of which I am majorly proud, obviously to be champions of Europe wouldn't go amiss but the main thing is that we can remain proud. Kenwright can't win basically, you have people on here saying he failed on the stadium front yet KEIOC didn't exactly make that easy did they.
The way I look at it, that £12m loan is what we paid for Fellaini, a strong young central midfielder, if they paid off the loan and spent the interest on re-signing him and improving his contract, I believe that would be great business and allow us to move forward with a more solid squad than ever.
If anybody thinks we're going to see any of the Arteta/Yak/Beckford cash in Jan....they're kidding themselves
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1 Posted 04/09/2011 at 22:40:25
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