Toffeeweb - The Mail Bag

Protest March

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Whilst, like all Blues, I am concerned at the perilous state of our club finances, I read some of these blogs and ask myself Are these protesters also the ones who were refusing to move grounds and take us into the real world of modern day Premiership Football?

The facts are that we have costs of £85mil and income of £80mil, if not a football club we would be out of business!!!

Whilst no one could argue that we need new investment, we will only get that if we are prepared to move forward into the real world and not hang on to history in a Dickensian stadium that has no place in the Premier League! Perhaps if we had all got behind the forward looking stadium plans previously we would have had the much needed investment some time ago!!

I truly hope that Saturdays protest does not spill over into a negative atmosphere that the players will suffer with and that the boo boys manage to keep their mouths tightly shut.
Geoff Smith, wirral Posted 09/09/2011 at 10:52:01

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Lyndon Lloyd
1 Posted 09/09/2011 at 15:22:46

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Geoff, almost no one disputes the economic reality that Goodison Park is limiting the Club's income and those protesting the Kirkby stadium did so on the grounds that the project was undeliverable, EFC didn't never had the funds to make it work, its design was beneath a club of our stature, it was located miles from the city centre and the promised transport infrastructure to offset the less-then-ideal location never held much substance.

In the end, the whole scheme hung itself from its own petard and would never have come to fruition, with or without the support of ordinary Evertonians.

Tomorrow's march is not about opposing everything this Board does, it's about sending a message to the powers that be that a significant proportion of the fanbase is sufficiently dis-sastisfied with their performance that they want something to change.

Stephen Kenny
2 Posted 09/09/2011 at 15:30:42

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Ia..... Err Geoff,

The stadium move would have took us into the real world of Championship football, the CEO ADMITTED AS MUCH HIMSELF!

The "boo boys" have asked everyone once inside to get behind the team 100%.

Ray Roche
3 Posted 09/09/2011 at 15:42:49

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Geoff.

I agree with you that the stadium move would have saved our club from being the Premier Paupers that we have become.

You are talking about the Kings Dock aren't you?....

Anthony Hughes
4 Posted 09/09/2011 at 15:41:03

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Geoff,

Whether fans were for or against the Kirkby move it would never happened. As soon as we would have been asked for our part of the money we would have been fucked.

£78 million ring-fenced? What happened to that?

Dan Brough
5 Posted 09/09/2011 at 15:47:30

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Geoff, as mush as it pains me to say it, I voted Yes to the Kirkby move. And I shall be in attendance at Saturday's protest. I very much regret the way I voted, but it serves as an example of how I am open to the idea of moving from Goodison. As are others who will be in attendance.

Norman Merrill
6 Posted 09/09/2011 at 15:52:20

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I would like to think that Saturday's march will go ahead without any problems, and after which, the team do their part in giving a good performance, and hopefully the win.

I am sure the fans will get behind the lads, and hopefully, the two new boys will settle in, and maybe then things might change for the better? One can only hope.

Derek Daly
7 Posted 09/09/2011 at 16:13:57

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A big day for the Blue Union tommorow. In a crowd that will have 30 thousand plus Everton Fans the potential for a large visable support for the BU is there. It will provide the first real measure of the BU support amongs Evertons fans.

Gareth Humphreys
8 Posted 09/09/2011 at 16:34:57

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Geoff (1) The government blocked Kirkby. (2) Have you been to Loftus Road recently? (3) Your view on Kirkby is about as flawed as the rest of your article.

Nick Entwistle
9 Posted 09/09/2011 at 16:40:26

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I haven't noticed online, but is there an obvious visible presence of protest scarfs in Goodison?
If not, (1) is its lack of take-off because it's a 'Utd thing'? And (2) will the protest spark an uptake in purchases?

Andrew Ellams
10 Posted 09/09/2011 at 16:53:08

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To be honest, I believe that this does need to carry on into the ground in the form of anti-board chants and banners.

The board can hide away and pretend that a march outside the stadium isn't happening, but protests during the match can't be ignored. It may well have a negative effect but surely this is a short-term inconvenience to makes things better in the long term.

Paul Gladwell
11 Posted 09/09/2011 at 16:55:33

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I see Club Everton have joined the Blue Union ? what is ToffeeWeb's stance on wether they will ever join as it certainly seems most of us on here are backers of the BU?

Peter Laing
12 Posted 09/09/2011 at 17:13:34

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Paul very astute observation, I will leave Michael / Lyndon to answer your question, however it looks like Bluekipper are still acting like the Club's poodle.

Nick Entwistle
13 Posted 09/09/2011 at 17:18:09

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Not really astute as TW is independent of all things Everton and let the users set the agenda.

Michael and Lyndon may pen their own articles and responses on these pages where a stance may be assumed by the readers but that's the limit me thinks.

Steve Cotton
14 Posted 09/09/2011 at 17:19:58

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Ian sorry I mean Geoff, if you think that what the BU have done is detrimental to the club then you have the right to say so, but they along with thousands of other long suffering supporters can see that bad management will lead to the downfall of a company if not addressed.

If you look at the catalogue of faux pa's BK has uttered and you still think he is anything other than a buffoon then you are not wanting a better future for us.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
15 Posted 09/09/2011 at 17:34:52

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Interesting question. I think Nick got it right: we provide an independent resource for online Evertonians. Both of us happen to be supportive of the Blue Union, and we have provided full coverage of their activities, statements, aims and plans.

Does ToffeeWeb need to become a member of Blue Union? I'm not convinced... we encourage reasonable discussion of these issues from all sides and would not wish to alienate a portion of our contributors by taking that step.

Bottom line is we 'just' run a website: for a number of reasons, that is effectively the limit of the involvement we can realistically provide. But I'm open to suggestions...

Stephen Kenny
16 Posted 09/09/2011 at 17:46:55

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Michael,

I think it would be a mistake to nail your colours to any particular mast.

Despite the fact I often disagree with Richard Dodd etc. I still like to see his opinion and those like him.

TW would lose something I think.

Davin Janicki
17 Posted 09/09/2011 at 17:54:32

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Thank you Geoff Smith. I share your sentiments exactly.

Brian Denton
18 Posted 09/09/2011 at 17:56:46

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Agree entirely with Stephen Kenny (#16 above).

Chris Bannantyne
19 Posted 09/09/2011 at 17:55:50

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As I live in Australia, i'd very much like to hear a report on how the Blue Union protest goes, numbers involved etc.

I support the Blue Union and their aims, and would get involved myself if I lived locally - or even in the UK for that matter.

Ray Roche
20 Posted 09/09/2011 at 18:05:28

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Stephen Kenny and Brian Denton have called it right. I don't think Toffeeweb should be anything other than a forum for views and opinions. Once a particular viewpoint is taken I think you would lose the neutrality that we all enjoy on here. Report events, of course, but from a neutral stance.

Dennis Stevens
21 Posted 09/09/2011 at 18:03:17

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Goeff, I thought that only the retail development was specifically blocked & that the club could still have proceeded with this money-spinning opportunity regardless, but instead took the opportunity to drop it like a hot potato.

Jimmy Sorheim
22 Posted 09/09/2011 at 21:10:08

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Agree with Kenrick in that Toffeeweb is outside of Blue Union.
It should stay as it is.
Already there is enough people behind B.U.
No need for more. Also the battle is fought in the media, not inside the ground. If that happens then we wil suffer for it.
Stay outside Goodison with the protest and all will be ok.

Ray Roche
23 Posted 09/09/2011 at 18:05:28

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Chris Butler
24 Posted 09/09/2011 at 22:16:37

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I think the protest will be a disaster, as you will have 2 different groups with entirely different aims. I don't think this half-hearted protest will end a failure. What does the protest involve, what chants are going to be sung? I guarantee some song about BK being a lying bastard will take place at some point.

The overwhelming majority of contributors on this site are anti BK and want him out, therefore contradicting the BU manifesto. I think what makes our situation different from Liverpool's is the vast majority of their fans and players were against Gillett and Hicks. SoS had the support of the manager of Liverpool FC.

The vast majority of Evertonians including me are not anti-Kenwright or anti-Moyes ? they're just pro-Everton. I believe Moyes is just as much to blame for our situation as BK, by supporting him.

Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
25 Posted 09/09/2011 at 22:44:06

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I agree with Michael ? TW as a site is independent and mostly neutral even if Michael, myself and other contributors may nail our colours to various masts in our editorial pieces.

With Destination Kirkby, so convinced was I that the proposal was wrong, it was very tempting to brand TW as officially opposing the scheme but, as others have written, I think the site would lose something if it broke its neutrality.

I, personally, am supportive of TBU's broad, clarified aims ? to highlight that significant change is needed, to campaign for better communication from the Club, and agitate for better or different leadership at the top ? while still nervous of what that change might bring. But at some stage, unless the replacement is as skint as the incumbent, you have to wonder how much worse the devil you don't know could possibly be for the Club than the devil you do...

Tom Bowers
26 Posted 09/09/2011 at 23:27:32

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These kind of protests achieve nothing. The only thing that carries any weight is not renewing season tickets and very few will do that. We are creatures of habit and would find it hard to do anything else on a game day (or night).

Just to sidetrack ? how is it Stoke City can find players to strengthen their squad (yes, I know many would not want Crouch) but still? You just know Stoke will be a difficult team to beat this season.

Kase Chow
27 Posted 10/09/2011 at 00:02:54

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The Blue Union protest can only be a good thing. If we protest as individuals we're easy to ignore. If we protest in numbers we show we are a force.

We can't expect or encourage fans not to attend or to support the team. But let's say we encouraged fans to stop buying official merchandise, stop buying the programme: well that starts to affect the club but not the team. Sooner or later, the top brass will have to take Blue Union seriously if we hit them where it hurts. Yes, by hurting the club we hurt ourselves in the short term but that may be the only way to get them to take notice.

Derek Thomas
28 Posted 10/09/2011 at 01:26:41

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Until Lyndon and Michael and others who actually 'run' Toffeeweb ask for a mandate to back BU, as they so rightly say, they will, as a group, stay out of publically endorsing and supporting it.

On the whole BU thing not so much independent as 'neutral'.

Do we / you / us want or need a mandate... run a poll and see which way it goes?

Derek Thomas
29 Posted 10/09/2011 at 01:36:13

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Toffeeweb - The Independent Everton Website.

Is all this BU protest march stuff all getting a bit political?

I think that saying it's all a bit ott political is evading the issues.

EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL.

All that is required for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing (or something like that).

Wrong

'Goodmen' wouldn't 'do nothing'

Jamie Crowley
30 Posted 10/09/2011 at 02:11:56

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Stephen Kenny -

Could not agree more. Well said.

Nick Entwistle
31 Posted 10/09/2011 at 06:57:59

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DT #28, That's some lawyer talk you got going on there. Very cunning.

Andrew Clare
32 Posted 10/09/2011 at 12:25:20

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I am 100% behind TBU.

It is quite clear many have forgotten the stature of Everton Football Club.
Now is the time to make our feelings known before Everton just fades away.
As Leo Buscagli said:
"I have a very strong feeling that the opposite of love is not hate -- it's apathy. It's not giving a damn."

Kieran Kinsella
33 Posted 10/09/2011 at 13:00:58

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A lot of Toffeeweb posters are ex-pats so it would be a bit silly to join the Blue Union if half your posters cannot put their money with their mouth is. Aside from which other posters like Dodd and Ian Ross(Dick Anderson) would probably feel get in trouble by BK.

Kase Chow
34 Posted 10/09/2011 at 00:02:54

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Blue union protest can only be a good thing. If we protest as individuals we're easy to ignore. If we protest in numbers we show we are a force

We can't expect or encourage fans not to attend or to support the team. But let's say we encouraged fans to stop buying official merchandise, stop buying the programme: well that starts to effect the club but not the team. Sooner or later the top brass will have to take Blue Union seriously if we hit them where it hurts. Yes, by hurting the club we hurt ourselves in the short term but that may be the only way to get them to take notice

Mike Allison
35 Posted 10/09/2011 at 17:57:16

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'Evil'? Heard it all now. Hopefully you'll clarify what you really meant, as your post was a bit minimal.

I thought 'despicable' was bad, and I certainly think 'killing the club' is unnecessarily hyperbolic. The language used in this debate is indicative of some disappointing things.

By all means, I'm glad that people want to get their point across, but does it have to be so inflammatory? Its clear that there are plenty of people in this debate who don't respect the people who think differently to them, or their views. Personally I'm very unsure (which is rare for me) and marvel at the certainty that so many people have about such a difficult and complicated issue.

Toffeeweb is excellent because its a neutral venue for Evertonians to express their views. Of course, that includes Lyndon and Michael, who don't need to be neutral in their own posts, they just need to allow people to post on all sides of any given debate.

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