Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Blue Union
101 Comments: Whilst I have been an active supporter of Blue Union in their aims and objectives to influence positive change at Everton, I am curious as to their lack of action and statements in recent months and was wondering if anybody knows what their current position is?
Peter Laing, Posted 25/04/2012 at 11:53:13
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They intimated that the protests were called off due to something big going on in the background.
Whatever that was now appears to have fizzled out unless Bill sold them an 'FSF' and played them liike violins (I couldn't see that happening with the KEIOC lads, but maybe with some of the other groups involved???).
It will be hard road back as a lot of the BU supporters were dissappointed that the campaign was halted and a lot of neutrals will have seen the actions as fairweather.
Hopefully it's just a matter of normal men having to put their normal lives first or waiting for the right time to bring the issues that remain to the fore.
Either way, they still have my support.
Whatever that was now appears to have fizzled out unless Bill sold them an 'FSF' and played them liike violins (I couldn't see that happening with the KEIOC lads, but maybe with some of the other groups involved???).
It will be hard road back as a lot of the BU supporters were dissappointed that the campaign was halted and a lot of neutrals will have seen the actions as fairweather.
Hopefully it's just a matter of normal men having to put their normal lives first or waiting for the right time to bring the issues that remain to the fore.
Either way, they still have my support.
The answer is quite obvious. Our form picked up after the January sales.
Expect to see them out in force again around November time after we suffer another poor start to season.
Expect to see them out in force again around November time after we suffer another poor start to season.
"They intimated that the protests were called off due to something big going on in the background."
No they didn't - they put out a press release stating that they were suspending protests because we were doing well...
http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-news/blue-union-statement-2/
"With such a significant period of the season now upon us, it would be remiss of us to ignore the wave of feeling that has become apparent over the past few weeks, and indeed the personal feelings of the majority of our officers, all of which together are telling us, very clearly that ?now is the time for unified support, not protest?.
Where's the bit about something 'big' going on behind the scenes?
No they didn't - they put out a press release stating that they were suspending protests because we were doing well...
http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-news/blue-union-statement-2/
"With such a significant period of the season now upon us, it would be remiss of us to ignore the wave of feeling that has become apparent over the past few weeks, and indeed the personal feelings of the majority of our officers, all of which together are telling us, very clearly that ?now is the time for unified support, not protest?.
Where's the bit about something 'big' going on behind the scenes?
I hope they are doing what I think they should be doing - heads down, working behind the scenes, accepting they are a minority viewpoint until they can present something substantial to change things for the better.
I hope the days of egotistical 'spectaculars' are behind them and we see them build a case we can all believe in to improve the future of our club. Sadly I suspect they have found that it isn't effective to alienate large parts of the fanbase and many of us can see through their spin as easily as we can that from the club.
In some ways they have become very similar to the board - entrenched, easy to predict & given to bending the truth - one tends to speak out when we do well on the pitch, the other when we do badly.
I hope the days of egotistical 'spectaculars' are behind them and we see them build a case we can all believe in to improve the future of our club. Sadly I suspect they have found that it isn't effective to alienate large parts of the fanbase and many of us can see through their spin as easily as we can that from the club.
In some ways they have become very similar to the board - entrenched, easy to predict & given to bending the truth - one tends to speak out when we do well on the pitch, the other when we do badly.
Kevin, I may be wrong, but I'm sure one of the lads came on here and spilled the beans, the reason he gave was the one that Stephen has mentioned. They were told that they had to keep it all hush, hush because negotiations were at a delicate point.
Stephen Kenny - I suppose one of the frustrating things for BU is what you mentioned then "a lot of neutrals will have seen the actions as fairweather" - whereas the BU, I'd expect, would see the actions of neutral fans as pathetic.
Brian - so it was so 'hush hush' that one of the lads felt compelled to come on here and let anyone with access to an internet connection know about it...
Sorry mate - that doesn't stand up...
All they had to say in their press release was: 'We're suspending actions for reasons we're not at liberty to discuss'
Not this whole 'we're getting behind the team" spiel
Sorry mate - that doesn't stand up...
All they had to say in their press release was: 'We're suspending actions for reasons we're not at liberty to discuss'
Not this whole 'we're getting behind the team" spiel
The realisation that a great swathe of Evertonians aren't really arsed probably knocked the wind out of 'em.
A massive lack of support I would suggest
Spot on Barry.
Kevin,
Yes they did. It's probably still on here somwhere. I couldn't really give a toss what the press release said when I've had it from the horse's mouth.
A few of the lads involved were on here and other Everton sites all saying the same thing.
Feel free to carry on making a mug of yourself though.
David,
I wouldn't know what the BU lads think of neutrals. I do know the campaign to change things would carry more weight if we get more fans behind us.
Yes they did. It's probably still on here somwhere. I couldn't really give a toss what the press release said when I've had it from the horse's mouth.
A few of the lads involved were on here and other Everton sites all saying the same thing.
Feel free to carry on making a mug of yourself though.
David,
I wouldn't know what the BU lads think of neutrals. I do know the campaign to change things would carry more weight if we get more fans behind us.
Well, if this "hush hush" thing hasn't come to pass...?
So what you're saying Stephen is the press release wasn't from the Blue Union, even though it was released by the Blue Union as an official press release on the Blue Union website...
... and it's me who is making a mug of myself?
... and it's me who is making a mug of myself?
There just regrouping, figuring out a way of getting the zombies on side.
Kevin, so what your saying is no organization has ever put out a press release which isn't completely true?
Stephen - if that is truly the case, that they've put out a misleading press release, regarding the suspension of their campaign... then 2 questions need answering.
1. What moral high ground to they have to call Kenwright a bullshitter ever again... seeing as they're not averse to a little bullshitting themselves...
2. Why should anyone believe anything else they ever say?
My opinion is that the press release was accurate; there was no hidden agenda; there was nothing going on behind the scenes that they'd been forewarned about by shadow sources from the club, there was no deal, no buyout, no negotiations.
They just simply found out that they didn't have the level of support amongst match going blues they thought they had, particularly at that time when the club was on the brink of Europe and Wembley... and so they backed off.
My own opinion of Blue Union is they've every right to protest - but they don't have the right to be taken seriously.
Posts like yours underline this.
1. What moral high ground to they have to call Kenwright a bullshitter ever again... seeing as they're not averse to a little bullshitting themselves...
2. Why should anyone believe anything else they ever say?
My opinion is that the press release was accurate; there was no hidden agenda; there was nothing going on behind the scenes that they'd been forewarned about by shadow sources from the club, there was no deal, no buyout, no negotiations.
They just simply found out that they didn't have the level of support amongst match going blues they thought they had, particularly at that time when the club was on the brink of Europe and Wembley... and so they backed off.
My own opinion of Blue Union is they've every right to protest - but they don't have the right to be taken seriously.
Posts like yours underline this.
Kevin,
1.From what I remember of it the protest was suspended at the clubs request.
The fact they took this into account, probably fully aware of the potential damage it could do to their reputation, says to me they can quite comfortably occupy the moral high ground for the forseeable.
2. I can't see anything being gained from them lying. They do not have millions to gain or lose on them achieving their objectives. Those who run the club do.
Your opinion that the press release was accurate is, obviously, up to you. The fact you believe this when a BU officer posted on here stating otherwise seems a bit odd to me.
For some reason you don't believe that what I've posted is true despite other posters confirming it to be. Like I say it's on here somewhere. I don't need to find it because I know what was said.
My opinion is that some are desperate to undermine what they are trying to achieve out of a misguided loyalty to the club.
Posts like yours underline this.
1.From what I remember of it the protest was suspended at the clubs request.
The fact they took this into account, probably fully aware of the potential damage it could do to their reputation, says to me they can quite comfortably occupy the moral high ground for the forseeable.
2. I can't see anything being gained from them lying. They do not have millions to gain or lose on them achieving their objectives. Those who run the club do.
Your opinion that the press release was accurate is, obviously, up to you. The fact you believe this when a BU officer posted on here stating otherwise seems a bit odd to me.
For some reason you don't believe that what I've posted is true despite other posters confirming it to be. Like I say it's on here somewhere. I don't need to find it because I know what was said.
My opinion is that some are desperate to undermine what they are trying to achieve out of a misguided loyalty to the club.
Posts like yours underline this.
Barry Rathbone @417 the great swathe you refer to are symptomatic of the apathy that has strangled the life out of Everton and who continue to look on whilst Kenwright runs the club into the ground. The acid test I would hope will come during the summer when Kenwright and Moyes sit down and plan their next five-year plan (cough ahem).
Sorry I'm late to this gents...
Internet problems and all that..
Anyway I was the guy that said something was going on behind the scenes,
The Blue Union were advised by the police to cancel the protest... can't remember exactly but something else I think was going on in the city at the time.. or something to do with the kick off time.
I will try to find out and get back to everyone...
We had also heard ..and it was common knowledge at that time the club were in deep talks with a serious investor... was it the Jain group... not sure?
The club made out that if we protested we might put the takeover at risk..
The Blue Union would have been blamed for Kenwrights failure..
On the advice of the police, and the fact that the club could've been in serious talks, the decision was made.
I can assure all that the BU are here for the long haul... much like KEIOC... and are working hard to rid this club of this failure of a board.
There will be releases of information regarding other things related to our board's failings in the near future,
The fight goes on...
COYB...
Internet problems and all that..
Anyway I was the guy that said something was going on behind the scenes,
The Blue Union were advised by the police to cancel the protest... can't remember exactly but something else I think was going on in the city at the time.. or something to do with the kick off time.
I will try to find out and get back to everyone...
We had also heard ..and it was common knowledge at that time the club were in deep talks with a serious investor... was it the Jain group... not sure?
The club made out that if we protested we might put the takeover at risk..
The Blue Union would have been blamed for Kenwrights failure..
On the advice of the police, and the fact that the club could've been in serious talks, the decision was made.
I can assure all that the BU are here for the long haul... much like KEIOC... and are working hard to rid this club of this failure of a board.
There will be releases of information regarding other things related to our board's failings in the near future,
The fight goes on...
COYB...
Kevin,
If you got off your arse and attended a meeting of the BU, even if you don't agree, I might take you seriously...
We are open for all fans to attend, we have regular meetings in our own time, and it does impact on our home lives.
We do this because we care... what do you do apart from hurt your thumbs slagging good honest (not like your hero) fans off!
The Blue Union doesn't make stuff up or lie... we leave that to the board. :)
If you got off your arse and attended a meeting of the BU, even if you don't agree, I might take you seriously...
We are open for all fans to attend, we have regular meetings in our own time, and it does impact on our home lives.
We do this because we care... what do you do apart from hurt your thumbs slagging good honest (not like your hero) fans off!
The Blue Union doesn't make stuff up or lie... we leave that to the board. :)
The main members of BU that post on this forum have been MIA for some time now.
I suspect they are working on something big for the good of the Club, like The Football Quarter or a massive protest at the Newcastle game.
I suspect they are working on something big for the good of the Club, like The Football Quarter or a massive protest at the Newcastle game.
Why all the cloak and dagger stuff? What's all the pussy-footing around for? The Blue Union either represent the average fan or they don't... Why pick and choose when to be silent?
You're losing credence with a lot of average fans. We are 7th in the league, beaten again by the lack of quality in the side to beat the red shite, no signs of bringing in quality for the summer transfer window. We are right back to where we started from; if the Union have no fight then get out...
It seems to me we go on a mini-run and everything's positive again... Well, wake up will yeah, another year of mediocrity beckons, wheeling and dealing to survive. Mark my words: we will eventually get caught with our kecks down.
You're losing credence with a lot of average fans. We are 7th in the league, beaten again by the lack of quality in the side to beat the red shite, no signs of bringing in quality for the summer transfer window. We are right back to where we started from; if the Union have no fight then get out...
It seems to me we go on a mini-run and everything's positive again... Well, wake up will yeah, another year of mediocrity beckons, wheeling and dealing to survive. Mark my words: we will eventually get caught with our kecks down.
Now you see, Robbie, this is why you've so little respect amongst many Evertonians and why so many are vociferous in slagging your group off.
Taking your post as representative of your group's output, any sane critic can highlight the errors you've made in communication and strategy (and are still making).
You see, I'm one of those who would normally be a natural supporter of your aims ? I want to see change at Everton FC, I want that elusive rich investor with billions to throw at the club; I supported the aims of KEIOC and by much more than walking up and down a bit waving a placard shouting slogans...
Robbie, sad to say, but if you truly represent The Blue Union, you're doing yourself and your group no favours with this flip-flopping about why you suspended protests and alienating potential fellow travellers.
'It was the police'
'It was the fact we were asked to suspend protests by the club'
'We all heard a rumour'
All of which contradicts your official press release ? do you not see how amateur this makes you all look... sticking in stuff like 'not like your hero' into your post... stupid. It makes you look stupid.
In a week or so, you're probably going to be wondering why so many fellow Evertonians are slagging you off at your protest... well, look no further than your posting here.
BTW ? I don't see your name on the Blue Union website in the list of official officers ? are you sure you're not representing anyone other than yourself?
Finally, Robbie you don't win campaigns by alienating your natural supporters ? you've an open goal with the Kenwright control of Everton Football Club; there's a huge amount of material to work with regarding what some might argue Kenwright's mismanagement of EFC. However, you badly need someone who understands that alienating people who should be your natural supporters is not the way to go...
I wish you luck.
Taking your post as representative of your group's output, any sane critic can highlight the errors you've made in communication and strategy (and are still making).
You see, I'm one of those who would normally be a natural supporter of your aims ? I want to see change at Everton FC, I want that elusive rich investor with billions to throw at the club; I supported the aims of KEIOC and by much more than walking up and down a bit waving a placard shouting slogans...
Robbie, sad to say, but if you truly represent The Blue Union, you're doing yourself and your group no favours with this flip-flopping about why you suspended protests and alienating potential fellow travellers.
'It was the police'
'It was the fact we were asked to suspend protests by the club'
'We all heard a rumour'
All of which contradicts your official press release ? do you not see how amateur this makes you all look... sticking in stuff like 'not like your hero' into your post... stupid. It makes you look stupid.
In a week or so, you're probably going to be wondering why so many fellow Evertonians are slagging you off at your protest... well, look no further than your posting here.
BTW ? I don't see your name on the Blue Union website in the list of official officers ? are you sure you're not representing anyone other than yourself?
Finally, Robbie you don't win campaigns by alienating your natural supporters ? you've an open goal with the Kenwright control of Everton Football Club; there's a huge amount of material to work with regarding what some might argue Kenwright's mismanagement of EFC. However, you badly need someone who understands that alienating people who should be your natural supporters is not the way to go...
I wish you luck.
Kevin,
can you explain what you did when you say "I supported the aims of Keioc and by much more than walking up and down
a bit waving a placard,shouting slogans"
What was it you did to support Keioc?
can you explain what you did when you say "I supported the aims of Keioc and by much more than walking up and down
a bit waving a placard,shouting slogans"
What was it you did to support Keioc?
Jimmy #538 "beaten again by the lack of quality in the side to beat the red shite."
It was nothing to do with lack of quality, it was the shithouse tactics employed that failed to beat the RS,
It was nothing to do with lack of quality, it was the shithouse tactics employed that failed to beat the RS,
Wow, the invisible man is a member. Let's play guess the poster.
I reckon it is Richard Dodd.
I reckon it is Richard Dodd.
Wrong Matt, it's Anne Onymiss.
Don't know what's gone wrong with the log in??
Don't know what's gone wrong with the log in??
Kevin @ 541 - superb mate... I couldn't have put it better myself.
This BU lot, while their intentions are laudable, go about it in TOTALLY the wrong way. KEIOC are the same....
In my opinion both groups would be better served helping to raise cash to give to Everton to spend on players, instead of just fuckin' whingin' all the time....
We need a new ground and Kirby would have done, now we're stuck with Goodison. Blue Bill does his best and the fact he's skint shouldn't be cause to moan at the bloke.
Oh and another thing, IF WE DON'T AGREE WITH YOU THAT'S NOT CAUSE TO HAVE A POP AS US EITHER.
I've supported Everton all my life, but just because you shout the loudest and make the most fuss, doesn't mean you represent me at all.
I can represent myself thanks.
This BU lot, while their intentions are laudable, go about it in TOTALLY the wrong way. KEIOC are the same....
In my opinion both groups would be better served helping to raise cash to give to Everton to spend on players, instead of just fuckin' whingin' all the time....
We need a new ground and Kirby would have done, now we're stuck with Goodison. Blue Bill does his best and the fact he's skint shouldn't be cause to moan at the bloke.
Oh and another thing, IF WE DON'T AGREE WITH YOU THAT'S NOT CAUSE TO HAVE A POP AS US EITHER.
I've supported Everton all my life, but just because you shout the loudest and make the most fuss, doesn't mean you represent me at all.
I can represent myself thanks.
Kevin #541.
I agree with you that the BU really need to make sure that the reasoning that they use for the cancellation of the protest originally planned for the Spurs game doesn't change. I'm not sure why Robby is now claiming 'police', and 'takeover' issues as the reason. If this was the case, why wasn't it part of the official press release? Robby, are you actually an officer for the BU, or do you act in any 'officiaI' capacity for them? Reason I ask is because a few days before the Spurs protest I spoke directly with one of the BU officers about why there had been no info released regarding the protest, and was told that the protest was due to be cancelled, would be announced in the next couple of days, and the reasons where due to 'organisational issues'. I specifically asked if he meant police, and he said no, the police could not have been more helpful.
What I don't agree with Robbie though is your assertion that the BU are seeking an 'elusive rich investor with billions to throw at the club', I don't think BU have ever stated that that is there aim whatsoever. Also, I don't really think that anything that has come from the BU should alienate people at all, maybe some of the more 'extreme' BU supporters say stuff on forums etc that doesn't reflect well on the BU, but the top guys at the BU have, imo, presented themselves brilliantly, and backed all of their reasoning up with hard facts.
Any #554. Could not agree less about your idea that the BU should be raising funds to give to the board to buy players. And the BU are not 'just fuckin' whingin' all the time' either, they are trying to do the best they can for our struggling club, with the best intentions in the world, and for that they have my upmost respect. Oh, and Kirkby would not 'have done' (and also if we did move I would want something better than making do that's for damn sure!). The fact that Kenwright is 'skint' as you put it is not the reason it would best that he leaves the board either, but the reasons for that has been done to death here so many times already I'm not going to bring it back up, there are approximately 5423 existing threads on this website alone that explains the reasoning some of us want him gone.
I agree with you that the BU really need to make sure that the reasoning that they use for the cancellation of the protest originally planned for the Spurs game doesn't change. I'm not sure why Robby is now claiming 'police', and 'takeover' issues as the reason. If this was the case, why wasn't it part of the official press release? Robby, are you actually an officer for the BU, or do you act in any 'officiaI' capacity for them? Reason I ask is because a few days before the Spurs protest I spoke directly with one of the BU officers about why there had been no info released regarding the protest, and was told that the protest was due to be cancelled, would be announced in the next couple of days, and the reasons where due to 'organisational issues'. I specifically asked if he meant police, and he said no, the police could not have been more helpful.
What I don't agree with Robbie though is your assertion that the BU are seeking an 'elusive rich investor with billions to throw at the club', I don't think BU have ever stated that that is there aim whatsoever. Also, I don't really think that anything that has come from the BU should alienate people at all, maybe some of the more 'extreme' BU supporters say stuff on forums etc that doesn't reflect well on the BU, but the top guys at the BU have, imo, presented themselves brilliantly, and backed all of their reasoning up with hard facts.
Any #554. Could not agree less about your idea that the BU should be raising funds to give to the board to buy players. And the BU are not 'just fuckin' whingin' all the time' either, they are trying to do the best they can for our struggling club, with the best intentions in the world, and for that they have my upmost respect. Oh, and Kirkby would not 'have done' (and also if we did move I would want something better than making do that's for damn sure!). The fact that Kenwright is 'skint' as you put it is not the reason it would best that he leaves the board either, but the reasons for that has been done to death here so many times already I'm not going to bring it back up, there are approximately 5423 existing threads on this website alone that explains the reasoning some of us want him gone.
Apologies Andy for mispelling your name above
As I've said before, unfortunately a huge amount of Evertonians base their opinions on the last 90 minutes of football/result and like to bury their heads up their arses and pretend everything is ok. Then there is the other bunch who think a top ten finish and a cup run every few years is success. These are generally the people who call protesters "Kopites" and tell them to "fuck off across the park" for daring to oppose Kenwright's decade of failure, lies, lack of investment, lack of ambition and general mismanagement.
Andy Callan..... so "Kirkby would have done"
In your mediocre opinion maybe, but definitely not for me
In your mediocre opinion maybe, but definitely not for me
Neal, just goes to show that Blue Bill can get away with anything when we have fans that still haven't woken up to the facts about Desperation Kirkby.
The ONLY reason imo, that BU suspended its protests is because they cannot be sustained while the team is doing/playing well.
Robbie Daniels above tells us that the group "doesn't make stuff up or lie" but gives us three different reasons for suspending the protests than those given in the press release?
At best, BU is a fringe group with little support amongst the majority of match going Blues, I think their aims to a certain degree are laudable, and I also believe they genuinely care about the future of the club, the sometimes aggressive nature in the way they go about things instantly alienates a lot of supporters, doorstepping Kenwright might be "amusing" on you tube, but really just made BU look like a bit of a mob imo. Also as Robbie and a few others demonstrate above, if your not on their side, that instantly makes you a dumb fucker with your head buried up your arse, a fine way to get people on board for the ongoing campaign I reckon!
Robbie Daniels above tells us that the group "doesn't make stuff up or lie" but gives us three different reasons for suspending the protests than those given in the press release?
At best, BU is a fringe group with little support amongst the majority of match going Blues, I think their aims to a certain degree are laudable, and I also believe they genuinely care about the future of the club, the sometimes aggressive nature in the way they go about things instantly alienates a lot of supporters, doorstepping Kenwright might be "amusing" on you tube, but really just made BU look like a bit of a mob imo. Also as Robbie and a few others demonstrate above, if your not on their side, that instantly makes you a dumb fucker with your head buried up your arse, a fine way to get people on board for the ongoing campaign I reckon!
I'm perplexed as to why anybody would bother pontificating on here as regards what BU should or shouldn't do & how they should go about it. Surely if you just want to slag off what is no more than a group of fellow Evertonians, ordinary supporters operating as amateurs against a, supposedly, professional organisation then it would be more honest to declare your support for the current regime & explain why you think BU are wrong. If, on the other hand, you agree with the aims of BU but think they're going about it all wrong then it would probably be more productive to get directly involved & have a positve input into the process, I'm sure they're open to constructive criticism & offers of more professional support.
Agree Steve.
I think the Bu should start over with their goals, and try to get a new manager in, also they should not stay quiet just because we had a good period.
Yes, the protest needed to stop, BUT that does not mean they should stop their campain all together!!!!
They have lost credibility in my view, if they are to survive they should resume media pressure on Kenwright before every BU supporter have forgot they ever existed.
Get your act on Blue Union, you are making a fool of this club by suddenly halting all activity.
I am very sad that no press releases have come out since then, in fact I have almost forgotten the BU ever existed.
Now, that is not hjow a protest group should behave, you must keep constant pressure, if not doing protests then at least via the media and online.
Disappointed.
I think the Bu should start over with their goals, and try to get a new manager in, also they should not stay quiet just because we had a good period.
Yes, the protest needed to stop, BUT that does not mean they should stop their campain all together!!!!
They have lost credibility in my view, if they are to survive they should resume media pressure on Kenwright before every BU supporter have forgot they ever existed.
Get your act on Blue Union, you are making a fool of this club by suddenly halting all activity.
I am very sad that no press releases have come out since then, in fact I have almost forgotten the BU ever existed.
Now, that is not hjow a protest group should behave, you must keep constant pressure, if not doing protests then at least via the media and online.
Disappointed.
Dennis Stevens 584
"it would be more honest to declare your support for the current regime"
There you have it in a nutshell, if I'm not for then I must be against? this sort of siege mentality is what I was hinting at above.
"it would be more honest to declare your support for the current regime"
There you have it in a nutshell, if I'm not for then I must be against? this sort of siege mentality is what I was hinting at above.
Either you've taken a quote deliberately out of context, Steve - or you need lessons in comprehension.
Jimmy, agree totally. The BU have always stated that their issues aren't so much with the results of Everton on the pitch, but all about those results off it. So why then halt activity whilst results are good? It smacks of that it is all about results on the pitch. I agree with them that it would have been harder to get support during those times, but they should have still been there, still showing their faces as an organisation convincing people not to be fooled by results on the pitch, as the results off it are continuing to get worse.
I know quite a few lads from The Blue Union and I know that they would be the first to hold their hands up and say that they have got things right and wrong in the past. Nobody is saying The Blue Union is perfect but it is much improved from where it was.
There have been some accurate and non-accurate points made in this thread but what I won't advocate myself is Evertonians attacking Evertonians because of their beliefs,
Discussing The Blue Union is for me akin to discussing the previous 90 minutes of football. We all have an opion, we all believe our opinion is correct and we all think we can do a better job at times ? the problem is we don't do anything about it!
How many of you on here have criticised Moyes and then gone out to start your coaching badges to prove you could do it in a better way? In the same ilk, people like to criticise The Blue Union for their failings but do nothing about it themselves and fail to recognise the positives that The Blue Union have helped to bring about.
Yes, it's easy enough to sit there and be an 'Internet Warrior' but how many of us stand up to be counted when it matters?
I've had these debates for a long time now and to be honest, it only serves to further the Club's interest. Now is the time for an amnesty if you like. Forget what has gone on in the past and help shape the future. If all fans supported The Blue Union and if Evertonians in general were less apathetic in our demise, then I'm sure we'd have been sold already.
The Blue Union have come a long way in little over a year and I for one will be doing my part to support them. Can you say the same?
There have been some accurate and non-accurate points made in this thread but what I won't advocate myself is Evertonians attacking Evertonians because of their beliefs,
Discussing The Blue Union is for me akin to discussing the previous 90 minutes of football. We all have an opion, we all believe our opinion is correct and we all think we can do a better job at times ? the problem is we don't do anything about it!
How many of you on here have criticised Moyes and then gone out to start your coaching badges to prove you could do it in a better way? In the same ilk, people like to criticise The Blue Union for their failings but do nothing about it themselves and fail to recognise the positives that The Blue Union have helped to bring about.
Yes, it's easy enough to sit there and be an 'Internet Warrior' but how many of us stand up to be counted when it matters?
I've had these debates for a long time now and to be honest, it only serves to further the Club's interest. Now is the time for an amnesty if you like. Forget what has gone on in the past and help shape the future. If all fans supported The Blue Union and if Evertonians in general were less apathetic in our demise, then I'm sure we'd have been sold already.
The Blue Union have come a long way in little over a year and I for one will be doing my part to support them. Can you say the same?
"If all fans supported The Blue Union and if Evertonians in general were less apathetic in our demise, then I'm sure we'd have been sold already."
That's just it, Paul. You are saying that all fans should agree with the BU, but they don't, and nor should they if that's how they think. To call them all apathetic, which basically means they are not arsed, is what is alienating the BU from a lot of supporters.
We would have been sold by now? Why? If everyone agreed with the BU, would we no longer need a new stadium? New players? The board would no longer want a return on their investment? Those issues would still remain so to say we would have been sold is wrong.
I applaud the BU for their efforts, but personally I can't help but think it's a little pointless as we fans can do nothing about the issues above. Perhaps more pressure on the board would force them to lower the asking price (if indeed it is too high)? That's about it though; we can do little about the level of investment required for Everton to really compete.
What we do need is help from the council, and a real plan like this Football Quarter to be realised. That may convince a new owner to part with their cash, but too much is up in the air at the moment.
That's just it, Paul. You are saying that all fans should agree with the BU, but they don't, and nor should they if that's how they think. To call them all apathetic, which basically means they are not arsed, is what is alienating the BU from a lot of supporters.
We would have been sold by now? Why? If everyone agreed with the BU, would we no longer need a new stadium? New players? The board would no longer want a return on their investment? Those issues would still remain so to say we would have been sold is wrong.
I applaud the BU for their efforts, but personally I can't help but think it's a little pointless as we fans can do nothing about the issues above. Perhaps more pressure on the board would force them to lower the asking price (if indeed it is too high)? That's about it though; we can do little about the level of investment required for Everton to really compete.
What we do need is help from the council, and a real plan like this Football Quarter to be realised. That may convince a new owner to part with their cash, but too much is up in the air at the moment.
My statement of apathy isn't one to denegrate Evertonians but, if you look back over the years at the failures that we've endured and the apparent and subsequent lack of response / backlash from fans, you will see that as a whole Evertonians are apathetic. They accept what they are given and they don't fight for the betterment of EFC. There are pockets of fans out there who refuse to lie down but most just accept the Status Quo and then moan about it over their Saturday afternoon pre/post match pint.
I am a firm believer that Evertonians should stand behind The Blue Union; I'm not saying they are a one-size fits all and I'm not advocating a 'You're either for us or against us' mentality.
What I am saying is that we need a vehicle which, as you rightly point out, can put pressure on the Board to lower their asking price and will keep their failings in the spotlight. At the the minute, The Blue Union are the only group attempting to complete such a feat and, unless you know of any others, I say let's take what momentum The Blue Union have already gathered and let's push forward together as Evertonians for a better future. Let's put past differences aside, let's stop the infighting as things are only going to get worse ? as confirmed by Mr Elstone the other night!!
It's Time For Change!
I am a firm believer that Evertonians should stand behind The Blue Union; I'm not saying they are a one-size fits all and I'm not advocating a 'You're either for us or against us' mentality.
What I am saying is that we need a vehicle which, as you rightly point out, can put pressure on the Board to lower their asking price and will keep their failings in the spotlight. At the the minute, The Blue Union are the only group attempting to complete such a feat and, unless you know of any others, I say let's take what momentum The Blue Union have already gathered and let's push forward together as Evertonians for a better future. Let's put past differences aside, let's stop the infighting as things are only going to get worse ? as confirmed by Mr Elstone the other night!!
It's Time For Change!
Dan,
When not only the failings of our board, but also the outright lies, are as clear as day for everyone to see it's fair to assume those who choose to do nothing about it are apathetic or just not arsed.
Your right a lot is up in the air. That's because it suits the board for it to be that way.
The game moves so quickly these days that just standing still is going backwards. Yet how long now since Goodison even got a lick of paint? Who's saying we can't even start making a few small steps in the right direction?
The myth of what it would cost to upgrade the ground and to make the club competitive is an attempt to further cloud the issues of how the club is run with a complete lack of pro-active management.
Only one side of the argument is trying to improve the long term prospects of the club and it's not the one with the obligation to.
When not only the failings of our board, but also the outright lies, are as clear as day for everyone to see it's fair to assume those who choose to do nothing about it are apathetic or just not arsed.
Your right a lot is up in the air. That's because it suits the board for it to be that way.
The game moves so quickly these days that just standing still is going backwards. Yet how long now since Goodison even got a lick of paint? Who's saying we can't even start making a few small steps in the right direction?
The myth of what it would cost to upgrade the ground and to make the club competitive is an attempt to further cloud the issues of how the club is run with a complete lack of pro-active management.
Only one side of the argument is trying to improve the long term prospects of the club and it's not the one with the obligation to.
I'm happy to stand behind them on most of their points but, like I said earlier, they need to continue the pressure regardless of how results are going. We haven't heard anything since the cancelation of the Spurs protest, because results were going well. It gave all those who don't agree, a stick to beat them with. They now probably need to work even harder to get back to where they were. A summer like the last would up numbers, but lets face it, none of us want that.
Dennis 592.
Neither imo, you are implying that to "slag off" BU supporters automatically makes you a supporter of the current regime and, should be "honest" about it. You then go on to say that if you lean towards BUs way of thinking, then get more involved rather than sit on the sidelines, fair comment, but a bit too much water under the bridge for me despite Paul Jamiesons olive branch above. For me, my hat {and more importantly my money} will be going to Trust Everton if it gets up and running, I like the idea of a group along these lines where real democracy among it's stakeholder should flourish, along with having the financial clout to make any regime sit up and take notice.
Neither imo, you are implying that to "slag off" BU supporters automatically makes you a supporter of the current regime and, should be "honest" about it. You then go on to say that if you lean towards BUs way of thinking, then get more involved rather than sit on the sidelines, fair comment, but a bit too much water under the bridge for me despite Paul Jamiesons olive branch above. For me, my hat {and more importantly my money} will be going to Trust Everton if it gets up and running, I like the idea of a group along these lines where real democracy among it's stakeholder should flourish, along with having the financial clout to make any regime sit up and take notice.
Stephen, I agree about the lies. If you know a group called 'Evertonians against Blue Union' on facebook, you will see a recent debate I had with the admin guy of the group (who chooses to remain nameless). We all know though that this current board aren't willing to invest in anything Everton. We have some wealthy men on our board. They could actually get a new stadium built and then sell the club with the cost of said stadium included in the price. Already having a stadium built certainly helped Man City, but we are dreaming if we think they would do that.
Steve #592 : There is no reason why the BU and Trust Everton cannot exist together. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I personally agree with what both of them are trying to achieve and will support them as much as I can until that changes.
Dan,
I'll go and have a look at that. Seems a ridiculous group to set up IMO. Probably why the admin is anonymous.
I'll go and have a look at that. Seems a ridiculous group to set up IMO. Probably why the admin is anonymous.
Sorry, that should read Steve #606!
Regarding Dan's comment #607 : HA HA HA! Someone on Facebook has started a Facebook group called "Evertonians Against Evertonians Against The Blue Union" :)
Trust Everton are indeed a very worthwhile cause and I for one will back them as I do The Blue Union. I also know that members of The Blue Union are also very supportive of Trust Everton and have actually helped them promote their campaign thus far.
The Blue Union have also done many other things for the benefit of fans, such as putting pressure on EFC to remove Graeme Sharp as head of the Fans Forum in favour of a regular fan and the fact they are now all individually contactable by email is also as a result of TBU pressure.
My point, is that a lot of things do happen from the aspect of The Blue Union and whilst I understand a lot of water has gone under the bridge as it were, it is NEVER too late to change. With that in mind, yes support Trust Everton with it's aims as I will also be doing but please also think about what can be acheived under a united group - namely The Blue Union.
Happy to meet up pre/post match and discuss in person if that helps?
The Blue Union have also done many other things for the benefit of fans, such as putting pressure on EFC to remove Graeme Sharp as head of the Fans Forum in favour of a regular fan and the fact they are now all individually contactable by email is also as a result of TBU pressure.
My point, is that a lot of things do happen from the aspect of The Blue Union and whilst I understand a lot of water has gone under the bridge as it were, it is NEVER too late to change. With that in mind, yes support Trust Everton with it's aims as I will also be doing but please also think about what can be acheived under a united group - namely The Blue Union.
Happy to meet up pre/post match and discuss in person if that helps?
It is a bit of a daft group, Stephen. I started the debate asking them if they offer an alternative, because all I ever saw from them was insinuating that the BU would prefer Everton to get beat each week so that they could start protesting again.
ps: As for the Facebook Group "Evertonians against the Blue Union", the admin remains anonymous as he works for the Trinity Group (Echo) and for the sake of his job he has to.
"Evertonians Against The Blue Union" has 148 likes at present but there is also a group called "Evertonians Against Evertonians Against The Blue Union" which has 111 likes!
"Evertonians Against The Blue Union" has 148 likes at present but there is also a group called "Evertonians Against Evertonians Against The Blue Union" which has 111 likes!
Some chheker feckers on here, slagging off BU...yes I'm looking at you Jimmy, with your stupid "Get your act on Blue Union, you are making a fool of this club by suddenly halting all activity""
Keyboard warrior in a different country slagging off a group of fans with no funding and wanting the best for the club.
They're not a professional group and will make mistakes, hence the daft comment above like "(not like your hero)", which does nothing to bring in support.
Good idea by a group in its infancy but still ironing out the wrinkles.
As already stated above, you will find it extremely difficult to get support when we are performing quite well....as for me, I'm a lazy bastard who likes his pre match pint....so unfortunately I will only be there in spirit.
Keyboard warrior in a different country slagging off a group of fans with no funding and wanting the best for the club.
They're not a professional group and will make mistakes, hence the daft comment above like "(not like your hero)", which does nothing to bring in support.
Good idea by a group in its infancy but still ironing out the wrinkles.
As already stated above, you will find it extremely difficult to get support when we are performing quite well....as for me, I'm a lazy bastard who likes his pre match pint....so unfortunately I will only be there in spirit.
Paul 616,
Your support for BU is admirable, and your reasoning in support of them on here will gain more friends than enemies I'm sure. This coming close season will be the acid test for this board and maybe BU too, in spite of what's gone on in the past, I believe our fan base has never been more acutely aware of what goes on at the club than they do now, another close season of nil expenditure on players or, Moyes writing us off before a ball has been kicked will signal real protest imo, BU will/should be at the head of this when it happens {I say when rather than if, because we all know it will happen}. The tipping point for me is about 4 or 5 thousand supporters, get that many to turn out and protest and the bandwagon effect will do the rest.
Your support for BU is admirable, and your reasoning in support of them on here will gain more friends than enemies I'm sure. This coming close season will be the acid test for this board and maybe BU too, in spite of what's gone on in the past, I believe our fan base has never been more acutely aware of what goes on at the club than they do now, another close season of nil expenditure on players or, Moyes writing us off before a ball has been kicked will signal real protest imo, BU will/should be at the head of this when it happens {I say when rather than if, because we all know it will happen}. The tipping point for me is about 4 or 5 thousand supporters, get that many to turn out and protest and the bandwagon effect will do the rest.
I don't think there's any implication about it Steve. If you're just slagging BU, the only group of Evertonians that I know of trying to facilitate a change at Board level, then supporting the current incumbents is exactly what you're doing, whether wittingly or not. If you agree with the BU objectives but feel they could be doing a better job, I still feel engagement is the only constructive contribution you can make.
I also have high hopes for Trust Everton, but it's really a very different proposition, working on a different timescale, or maybe not, judging by the intransigence of the current Board - I wonder if they sing 'We Shall Not Be Moved' at Board meetings.
What kind of hat have you got Steve? I've just located my old Bowler, much worn when I were a lad but sadly past it's prime now - unlike me of course, ahem.
I also have high hopes for Trust Everton, but it's really a very different proposition, working on a different timescale, or maybe not, judging by the intransigence of the current Board - I wonder if they sing 'We Shall Not Be Moved' at Board meetings.
What kind of hat have you got Steve? I've just located my old Bowler, much worn when I were a lad but sadly past it's prime now - unlike me of course, ahem.
Spot on Steve [624]
Dennis,
My hat {if it existed} would be quite like the one John Bailey wore after the cup final in 84, I know it would look daft but we've got to do something to cheer us up haven't we ?
My hat {if it existed} would be quite like the one John Bailey wore after the cup final in 84, I know it would look daft but we've got to do something to cheer us up haven't we ?
I remember it well Steve. You're quite right. As I recall part of the joy of the moment was the absolute certainty that the club was out of the doldrums & back in the big time - you just knew that the next season was going to be a big one. It was certainly a stark contrast to just a few months before, standing on the away terrace at the old Manor Ground expecting Oxford United to dump us out of the League Cup - thank goodness for Inchy, & Kevin Brock too!
The Blue Union has officers? Sounds like a private army more than a union. Either way, I'm happy that they have gone away, at least for the time being, as I found some of it a little embarrassing. I don't disagree with all of their points, by the way.
Good days, Dennis, up until a few months ago I had the whole of the BBCs coverage {presented by David Coleman} of the day on two 3 hour vhs tapes. Amongst it was the premier of Elton John's new video (Sad Songs Say So Much}, two cringingly unfunny scripts by Micheal Barrymore {Watford fan I assume}, and Freddie Starr, along with a live link to John Bailey's quite pissed sister on the train down to Wembley.
Will those days ever come back again? Will Elton ever marry a women again? Has Freddie Starr ever been funny? Will Barrymore ever go back in the water?
Will those days ever come back again? Will Elton ever marry a women again? Has Freddie Starr ever been funny? Will Barrymore ever go back in the water?
That's a hopeful 'yes' & three emphatic 'no's!
You should have made some bootleg dvd's, Steve - I'd have bought one!
You should have made some bootleg dvd's, Steve - I'd have bought one!
As a protest group who purport to represent me as an Everton supporter who wants change; and who wishes to be taken seriously BU have scored some spectacular own goals.
Own Goal Number One: August 2011 Releasing details of a confidential meeting that took place behind closed doors detailing the perilous financial state of Everton FC. With this act of startling unprofessionalism you revealed yourselves as unqualified to represent the interests of the supporters of Everton football club beyond a 'lunatic fringe' protest group. You lost a great deal of goodwill with Everton supporters who may have been drawn to this cause and who knows, you may have even made our financial position even more perilous, as it made our rivals all too aware of how little they could pay us in transfer dealings. Using an analogy - It's like a poker player tipping his poor hand to his best mate and his mate broadcasting it to the rest of the table.
Own Goal Number Two:
The video released to YouTube regarding the confrontation with Bill Kenwright and supporters before the Tamworth game.
We're living in a media age, and it's not just the message you're trying to get across that's important anymore- it's the way you do it! The content of this video makes BU look juvenile, unprofessional, confrontational and not people who I want representing me as an Everton supporter in any way, shape or form. Releasing this video and officially associating with the BU 'brand' was a PR error of cataclysmic proportions. Show it to an audience of blues without an already preconceived agenda and I assure you that that vast majority will come away from it supporting Kenwright and not BU... in fact, believe me, it is very likely to make the people you want to convince to support you, distance themselves from you.
Own Goal Number 3
'We only march when we're losing' I've gone over this in a previous post - but the decision to suspend protests because the team looked like it might win something - and come out and OPENLY say so, was to use PR speak - fucking idiotic. Anyone who thought you might have had a justifiable cause to be demonstrating, perhaps because you're expressing the unhappiness that Evertonians feel about what's going at boardroom level will look at this and come to the conclusion that you're poor weather protesters who only come out when it's raining - they may well ask themselves 'do they speak for me who is still concerned with our debt... no, I don't think so'. Again PR lunacy... what were you thinking of?
To sum up... you began to alienate potential supporters with 'own goal number 1', this was continued with 'own goal number2' and own goal number3 has probably ensured that those who you should be seeking to have on your side will be openly hostile to you...
Congrats - a perfect public relations FUBAR (Fucked,Up, Beyond, All, Recognition) and an excellent case study in how not to run pressure group/media relations.
Own Goal Number One: August 2011 Releasing details of a confidential meeting that took place behind closed doors detailing the perilous financial state of Everton FC. With this act of startling unprofessionalism you revealed yourselves as unqualified to represent the interests of the supporters of Everton football club beyond a 'lunatic fringe' protest group. You lost a great deal of goodwill with Everton supporters who may have been drawn to this cause and who knows, you may have even made our financial position even more perilous, as it made our rivals all too aware of how little they could pay us in transfer dealings. Using an analogy - It's like a poker player tipping his poor hand to his best mate and his mate broadcasting it to the rest of the table.
Own Goal Number Two:
The video released to YouTube regarding the confrontation with Bill Kenwright and supporters before the Tamworth game.
We're living in a media age, and it's not just the message you're trying to get across that's important anymore- it's the way you do it! The content of this video makes BU look juvenile, unprofessional, confrontational and not people who I want representing me as an Everton supporter in any way, shape or form. Releasing this video and officially associating with the BU 'brand' was a PR error of cataclysmic proportions. Show it to an audience of blues without an already preconceived agenda and I assure you that that vast majority will come away from it supporting Kenwright and not BU... in fact, believe me, it is very likely to make the people you want to convince to support you, distance themselves from you.
Own Goal Number 3
'We only march when we're losing' I've gone over this in a previous post - but the decision to suspend protests because the team looked like it might win something - and come out and OPENLY say so, was to use PR speak - fucking idiotic. Anyone who thought you might have had a justifiable cause to be demonstrating, perhaps because you're expressing the unhappiness that Evertonians feel about what's going at boardroom level will look at this and come to the conclusion that you're poor weather protesters who only come out when it's raining - they may well ask themselves 'do they speak for me who is still concerned with our debt... no, I don't think so'. Again PR lunacy... what were you thinking of?
To sum up... you began to alienate potential supporters with 'own goal number 1', this was continued with 'own goal number2' and own goal number3 has probably ensured that those who you should be seeking to have on your side will be openly hostile to you...
Congrats - a perfect public relations FUBAR (Fucked,Up, Beyond, All, Recognition) and an excellent case study in how not to run pressure group/media relations.
So the Blue Union should hire BK to run their PR?
Tony, was your distaste to Jimmy 'keyboard warrior in another country' more for being a keyboard warrior or the fact that he lives in another country? Whilst I also didn't agree with his views, there is also quite a few of us nowadays no longer living in Liverpool and the keyboard is how we get our point across. I'm sure you understand as you seem to spend half your life on here... maybe you have a lot more in common with your fellow keyboard warriors than you realise.
Anyways Tony, have to agree with the rest of your letter, why does everyone want to shoot the messenger? I think most people would have to accept that, boardroom-wise, this club could be run a lot better and I do believe the BU are trying to help this along. Now maybe sometimes they come across not very well, but let's not forget they're only a bunch of normal fans ? not some well-oiled party machine, so mistakes will be made.
Asides from that, I have the greatest respect for the BU for getting off their arses and having a go and wish them all the best in their endeavours.
Anyways Tony, have to agree with the rest of your letter, why does everyone want to shoot the messenger? I think most people would have to accept that, boardroom-wise, this club could be run a lot better and I do believe the BU are trying to help this along. Now maybe sometimes they come across not very well, but let's not forget they're only a bunch of normal fans ? not some well-oiled party machine, so mistakes will be made.
Asides from that, I have the greatest respect for the BU for getting off their arses and having a go and wish them all the best in their endeavours.
Wow, I don't know where to start... well, I suppose at the begining,
Kevin, let's get this out there straight away, the 'your hero' remark was out of order; I do apologise...
As for the comments about the press release and the reasons I gave, I'll explain.
I was at the meeting where this was discussed and there was feedback from the police at that time, which indicated they didn't want the protest on that day. I'm quite sure that they were meeting with the police the following day to discuss it. I wasn't privvy to that meeting.
There was also a discussion on a proposed takeover, and how it would affect the BU, if there was a protest. So, what I'm saying is all of them things were considered.
I don't handle the press releases, I am a member of the Blue Union, and we have regular meetings, and there are about 40 people who attend, not all at once, I might add. There are a handfull of officers.
So in effect these views are mine... But everything I've said is true.
Andy,
I don't really want to comment on your post, so I won't.
Lee,
I never said the 'elusive rich billionaire' quote, mate?
Steve Smith,
I never called anyone a dumb fucker, I said a remark to Kevin... and again admit, I shouldn't have said it. I'm not trying to upset anyone mate, sorry if I've come across like that.
Thing is, I can understand why people might not support the BU, and might not want to protest. It's their choice. What I can't understand is people just slagging them off, they are a group of fans that have brought information to the fore that a lot of Evertonians didn't know.
These lads are dedicated fans and are here for the long haul. They work constantly, attend forums and other such events so they can keep an eye on what is going on,
They are working on numerous things at the moment all for a better Everton. Don't support them if you don't want to... that's fine... but slagging them off, when the real villain of the peace carries on destroying our club, doesn't help anyone...
Kevin, let's get this out there straight away, the 'your hero' remark was out of order; I do apologise...
As for the comments about the press release and the reasons I gave, I'll explain.
I was at the meeting where this was discussed and there was feedback from the police at that time, which indicated they didn't want the protest on that day. I'm quite sure that they were meeting with the police the following day to discuss it. I wasn't privvy to that meeting.
There was also a discussion on a proposed takeover, and how it would affect the BU, if there was a protest. So, what I'm saying is all of them things were considered.
I don't handle the press releases, I am a member of the Blue Union, and we have regular meetings, and there are about 40 people who attend, not all at once, I might add. There are a handfull of officers.
So in effect these views are mine... But everything I've said is true.
Andy,
I don't really want to comment on your post, so I won't.
Lee,
I never said the 'elusive rich billionaire' quote, mate?
Steve Smith,
I never called anyone a dumb fucker, I said a remark to Kevin... and again admit, I shouldn't have said it. I'm not trying to upset anyone mate, sorry if I've come across like that.
Thing is, I can understand why people might not support the BU, and might not want to protest. It's their choice. What I can't understand is people just slagging them off, they are a group of fans that have brought information to the fore that a lot of Evertonians didn't know.
These lads are dedicated fans and are here for the long haul. They work constantly, attend forums and other such events so they can keep an eye on what is going on,
They are working on numerous things at the moment all for a better Everton. Don't support them if you don't want to... that's fine... but slagging them off, when the real villain of the peace carries on destroying our club, doesn't help anyone...
No worries Robbie - best of luck in your aims.
Kevin Sparke # 651 : a few responses for you...
Own Goal # 1 : I find it hard to believe that other football clubs, at their own board room level, wouldn't already have known just how deep in the do do financially Everton were / are, before the release of details of the meeting. I very much doubt that other Chairmen heard of this meeting and suddenly thought "Wow! When I bid for Everton player 'X', I'm only going to offer 50% of what I was originally going to do". For example, that seemed to already have happened, with Spurs' derogitory bid for Neville!
Also, it has been argued by the BU that Everton were fully aware that details of the meetings would be released, and if I recall correctly, the BU challenged Everton to prove that they had agreed to not disclose any of that information, and as far as I am aware, that was never forth coming. In fact, on a number of occasions, wasn't Kenwright quoted as saying".. and make sure you write this bit down..." or words to that affect, insinuating that he was fully aware that things were being noted / detailed?
Own Goal # 2 : Did the BU ever come forward and 'associate themselves' with that incident? Either way, I see nothing wrong with what they done, they had legitimate questions for the one man responsible to answering them, and without the avenue of AGM's available to air them, due to them being cancelled by the Everton Board, how else where they going to be asked? They were not abusive, didn't swear, and were not offensive.
Own Goal #3 : Yep, agree with you on that one Kevin, though I understand their thinking in that if they had carried on the protests and our good run had come to a shuddering halt, then they would have taken a lot of stick for it (even though it would have had nothing whatsoever to do with them!!).
But still, they should have carried on the protests no matter what.
Own Goal # 1 : I find it hard to believe that other football clubs, at their own board room level, wouldn't already have known just how deep in the do do financially Everton were / are, before the release of details of the meeting. I very much doubt that other Chairmen heard of this meeting and suddenly thought "Wow! When I bid for Everton player 'X', I'm only going to offer 50% of what I was originally going to do". For example, that seemed to already have happened, with Spurs' derogitory bid for Neville!
Also, it has been argued by the BU that Everton were fully aware that details of the meetings would be released, and if I recall correctly, the BU challenged Everton to prove that they had agreed to not disclose any of that information, and as far as I am aware, that was never forth coming. In fact, on a number of occasions, wasn't Kenwright quoted as saying".. and make sure you write this bit down..." or words to that affect, insinuating that he was fully aware that things were being noted / detailed?
Own Goal # 2 : Did the BU ever come forward and 'associate themselves' with that incident? Either way, I see nothing wrong with what they done, they had legitimate questions for the one man responsible to answering them, and without the avenue of AGM's available to air them, due to them being cancelled by the Everton Board, how else where they going to be asked? They were not abusive, didn't swear, and were not offensive.
Own Goal #3 : Yep, agree with you on that one Kevin, though I understand their thinking in that if they had carried on the protests and our good run had come to a shuddering halt, then they would have taken a lot of stick for it (even though it would have had nothing whatsoever to do with them!!).
But still, they should have carried on the protests no matter what.
@ Robby #660, apologies, I meant to address that point to Kevin # 541
Not having a go at you Robbie - but there's one thing I wish we could get away from is the idea that the majority of match going (and TV) Blues are apathetic and somehow 'don't care'...
They care enough to buy season tickets and fill away ends, get up at all hours to watch the team... and in these austere times, it's an expensive lifestyle.
To say that, because they don't engage in protest they are in anyway to blame for our position is disingenuous, to say the least.
If it wasn't for them tipping up their poke to buy tickets, shirts, Sky TV packages ? there wouldn't be an Everton FC for the rest of us to bitch about.
Don't make the mistake of alienating these people ? don't drive them away from your cause.
Getting them on your side is the key to success.
They care enough to buy season tickets and fill away ends, get up at all hours to watch the team... and in these austere times, it's an expensive lifestyle.
To say that, because they don't engage in protest they are in anyway to blame for our position is disingenuous, to say the least.
If it wasn't for them tipping up their poke to buy tickets, shirts, Sky TV packages ? there wouldn't be an Everton FC for the rest of us to bitch about.
Don't make the mistake of alienating these people ? don't drive them away from your cause.
Getting them on your side is the key to success.
Kevin, Thanks.
Lee, No worries mate.
Lee, No worries mate.
Kevin, 678,
I agree with you, I don't slag people off for not protesting... I just don't like people slagging the BU off for at least having a go.
It shows on here and other forums that we all love Everton... haven't they always done it the hard way?
I'm on twitter, and the other night a lad from London slagged off the BU and i just asked him why?
We then had a few words.. and he said just because he lived in London all his life he wasn't a plastic fan?
The guy doesn't agree with me on lots of things, and me him.....
But we both love our club...
Coybs..... Kenwright out....:)
I agree with you, I don't slag people off for not protesting... I just don't like people slagging the BU off for at least having a go.
It shows on here and other forums that we all love Everton... haven't they always done it the hard way?
I'm on twitter, and the other night a lad from London slagged off the BU and i just asked him why?
We then had a few words.. and he said just because he lived in London all his life he wasn't a plastic fan?
The guy doesn't agree with me on lots of things, and me him.....
But we both love our club...
Coybs..... Kenwright out....:)
Kevin #678
You seem to be someone who, if things were run differently, would be a supporter of The Blue Union.
Can you elaborate on how you would do things differently in the future? This isn't a trick question but rather one to engage and understand how the majority of fans would want The Blue Union to move forwards?
You seem to be someone who, if things were run differently, would be a supporter of The Blue Union.
Can you elaborate on how you would do things differently in the future? This isn't a trick question but rather one to engage and understand how the majority of fans would want The Blue Union to move forwards?
Kevin,
I asked you earlier what it was you did to support Keioc much more than "walking up and down carrying a placard" as you put it.
Any chance of a reply?
I asked you earlier what it was you did to support Keioc much more than "walking up and down carrying a placard" as you put it.
Any chance of a reply?
Paul - no
Kevin #691
If you don't elaborate then how can The Blue Union move forward in the correct manner? How can they get the key to success when you won't afford them a glimpse or what the key looks like?
If you don't elaborate then how can The Blue Union move forward in the correct manner? How can they get the key to success when you won't afford them a glimpse or what the key looks like?
Thought not.
Kevin,
How do you expect to be taken seriously when you won't answer a simple question? You have ridiculed the BU for not supplying you with enough information, then come across all coy when asked to explain your affiliation to Keioc.
How do you expect to be taken seriously when you won't answer a simple question? You have ridiculed the BU for not supplying you with enough information, then come across all coy when asked to explain your affiliation to Keioc.
Sorry Paul Jamieson - that was to the other Paul
Too long and complicated to lay out here...
'Start again' is the short answer: rebrand, realise that all parties ultimately want the same thing ? stop behaving unprofessionally, get some professional PR, get away from the idea of 'protest' and on to 'awareness raising'; dump the ambush tactics and marches... very short answer ? but it's all you're going to get for free.
Oh... and win the Euro lottery and secure Jelavic and Fellaini to long term deals...
Too long and complicated to lay out here...
'Start again' is the short answer: rebrand, realise that all parties ultimately want the same thing ? stop behaving unprofessionally, get some professional PR, get away from the idea of 'protest' and on to 'awareness raising'; dump the ambush tactics and marches... very short answer ? but it's all you're going to get for free.
Oh... and win the Euro lottery and secure Jelavic and Fellaini to long term deals...
Too long and complicated to lay out here, Kevin?
Just a brief synopsis will do. If indeed you have given Keioc any support, which to be truthful, I find hard to believe.
Just a brief synopsis will do. If indeed you have given Keioc any support, which to be truthful, I find hard to believe.
Paul Andrews - that response 704 was to the other Paul.
I see Kevin.
Can we have details of how you supported Keioc ?
Can we have details of how you supported Keioc ?
No
Your move
Your move
Robby 660
You say that you are a member of the BU and attend their meetings. You also said that these meetings are attended by about 40 people, but not all at once.
So are you saying that the BU have only 40 people who attend their regular meetings.
You say that you are a member of the BU and attend their meetings. You also said that these meetings are attended by about 40 people, but not all at once.
So are you saying that the BU have only 40 people who attend their regular meetings.
The difficulty for the BU and any protest group is what to do if unhappy with the club.
Majority support protests like at Newcastle got absolutely nowhere, ditto Utd fans against the Glazers and contrary to myth neither did protest against Hicks and Gilette (it was the bank).
Fan power means zip these days unless you DON'T GO and I understand thats beyond the pale for most fans (not me).
I'd avoid contrived protest marches; in all honesty, they look naff... people don't show and (unless they turn into a riot) hardly cause a ripple in the news.
Eye-catching stunts could cause a bit of squirming among the self-satisfied majority shareholders and wake up a few. Anyone got grappling hooks? Climbing expertise?
Huge banners dropping from the roof of the main stand in direct line with the live match day cameras saying:
"OVER 20 MILLION QUID GONE!! - £50 reward available tel B Kenwright ......"
Do the same stretching a banner between the 2 Liver Birds and we'd be on Sky News, wouldn't even have to wear Batman suits or anything.
Majority support protests like at Newcastle got absolutely nowhere, ditto Utd fans against the Glazers and contrary to myth neither did protest against Hicks and Gilette (it was the bank).
Fan power means zip these days unless you DON'T GO and I understand thats beyond the pale for most fans (not me).
I'd avoid contrived protest marches; in all honesty, they look naff... people don't show and (unless they turn into a riot) hardly cause a ripple in the news.
Eye-catching stunts could cause a bit of squirming among the self-satisfied majority shareholders and wake up a few. Anyone got grappling hooks? Climbing expertise?
Huge banners dropping from the roof of the main stand in direct line with the live match day cameras saying:
"OVER 20 MILLION QUID GONE!! - £50 reward available tel B Kenwright ......"
Do the same stretching a banner between the 2 Liver Birds and we'd be on Sky News, wouldn't even have to wear Batman suits or anything.
Brian,
These are weekly meetings the BU have..
To discuss strategy
Not advertised mass meetings..:)
These are weekly meetings the BU have..
To discuss strategy
Not advertised mass meetings..:)
Barry,
Spot on mate... haha
I'm scared of heights....
Spot on mate... haha
I'm scared of heights....
Kudos to Robbie Daniels for coming back and explaining his position, and no offence taken mate.
I'm with Kevin Sparke on this I think, BU as it stands, is already tainted rightly or wrongly, the group will now realise that it's much easier to get themselves bad publicity than it is to get good.
I'm with Kevin Sparke on this I think, BU as it stands, is already tainted rightly or wrongly, the group will now realise that it's much easier to get themselves bad publicity than it is to get good.
Your move ?
That is very evasive Kevin.
And childish, if I may say so.
You have not supported Keioc in any way shape or form have you.
Why would you pretend you had?
That is very evasive Kevin.
And childish, if I may say so.
You have not supported Keioc in any way shape or form have you.
Why would you pretend you had?
Ste,
Cheers mate...
Though I don't agree entirely with your position... I can respect it..
Wer'e all supporters... :)
Cheers mate...
Though I don't agree entirely with your position... I can respect it..
Wer'e all supporters... :)
Sorry I'm a bit confused and have skipped some of thread when it got into familiar bitching, but I'd like a simple answer to a simple question:
Did the Blue Union knowingly and deliberately lie in an official press release?
Preferably from Robby, Dan or Ste Kenny or anyone else who is involved with the group.
Did the Blue Union knowingly and deliberately lie in an official press release?
Preferably from Robby, Dan or Ste Kenny or anyone else who is involved with the group.
Paul - you might start by checking out the archives on here 2006-2009?
I haven`t got the time Kevin.
Can you enlighten me please.
Can you enlighten me please.
Well, after being initially on the fence, after I saw the state of the proposed stadium I wrote about 200,000 words in about 20 boring articles and responses to articles over a 3 year period outlining how moving to Kirkby would be a disaster for Everton Football club (check it out - it's good reading)
I got involved with stuff my boss who I had at the time wouldn't have thanked me for, in time he was paying me for... and there's other stuff I'm not going to put on paper - but it almost cost me my job.
What have you done for the cause?
I got involved with stuff my boss who I had at the time wouldn't have thanked me for, in time he was paying me for... and there's other stuff I'm not going to put on paper - but it almost cost me my job.
What have you done for the cause?
Plenty, but I would prefer to not blow my own trumpet.
I am happy we agree on the DK debacle. Moving there would have ruined the club.
I am happy we agree on the DK debacle. Moving there would have ruined the club.
As I remember, at the time most of the stuff I wrote (here and other places) was that Bill K was knowingly, or more likely unwittingly, setting us up to become a second tier football club (Championship) and the stadium confirmed this... we were effectively downsizing our stadium and our ambition... and with that our status within the game.
And there seemed to be some very shady goings on re finances...
But that's history
And there seemed to be some very shady goings on re finances...
But that's history
Kevin (#760) it's recent history, and went a long way to creating the divisions in the fanbase that remain today.
My own opinion was DK was the only way for the owners to realise a profit on their shareholding. As soon as planning permission was gained the sales process of the club would begin in earnest. I'm not sure whether the money was "ringfenced" to build it, but for sure they would use the mythical £52m uplift to get a profit. Even if the KD money was in the same "ringfence" as the KD money, they'd have tried to sell on the planning permission alone, and still monetise the uplift.
My own belief is DK was not fit for purpose for many reasons, and attendances would have gone off a cliff.
But rather than be sitting in his tax haven counting his millions, I think BK would still be there, as no serious buyer would have taken on the white elephant, and he'd be even more up to his eyes in debt than ever. I do think he, and EFC as a whole, dodged a rather large bullet with that.
My own opinion was DK was the only way for the owners to realise a profit on their shareholding. As soon as planning permission was gained the sales process of the club would begin in earnest. I'm not sure whether the money was "ringfenced" to build it, but for sure they would use the mythical £52m uplift to get a profit. Even if the KD money was in the same "ringfence" as the KD money, they'd have tried to sell on the planning permission alone, and still monetise the uplift.
My own belief is DK was not fit for purpose for many reasons, and attendances would have gone off a cliff.
But rather than be sitting in his tax haven counting his millions, I think BK would still be there, as no serious buyer would have taken on the white elephant, and he'd be even more up to his eyes in debt than ever. I do think he, and EFC as a whole, dodged a rather large bullet with that.
It was the transport fantasies that particularly raised my eyebrows Matt- I was quite familiar with the area and without a complete redesign of the transport infrastructure there was absolutely no way on Earth that 30, 000+ supporters could have been catered for with the outlined transport and parking plans - also, Everton would have lost the phenomenal amount of 'walk-up' support that we have - which I'm sure I've read somewhere is the largest in the Premier League.
I don't get to Liverpool City Centre as much as I'd like - but every time I walk past the Echo Arena I get sad and then angry...
I don't get to Liverpool City Centre as much as I'd like - but every time I walk past the Echo Arena I get sad and then angry...
Kevin,
End-of-the-line train station, one train in; one train out.
The club tried to tell people they could turn a bus around every 45 seconds.
A town with a population of 44,000 trying to acommodate a crowd of 36-39,000 every 2nd week.
End-of-the-line train station, one train in; one train out.
The club tried to tell people they could turn a bus around every 45 seconds.
A town with a population of 44,000 trying to acommodate a crowd of 36-39,000 every 2nd week.
Tony Williams, look lad, I lived in Liverpool 8 for 30 years, went to Goodison, season ticket holder for 20 years... I now live in Australia what's all this checker fecker shit and keyboard warrior stuff, you tit. Get back to your pint lad.
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382 Posted 25/04/2012 at 14:42:33
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