Bids for Naismith rejected

A striker with the ability of Phil Neville. Get him sold.

Bids of a fiver and over should be accepted; get him off our wage bill.

A striker made to play RM all season ... Should have played up front instead of Jelavic last season when we couldn't buy a goal.

SELL PLEASE, I AM BEGGING YOU ROBBIE!!!!

Keep him as a mascot.

Bit cruel, chaps.
Blame the person who brought him to the club.

Good point Paul. And just think he'll be ruining Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney next season!!

How much did we turn down I wonder? £2-3m is good business for someone signed for nowt. Get him sold and Honda in. Well you can only dream.

Hasn't had a chance here played all over the shop in cameos yet still managed to score.

Quite happy RM is taking his time we had this with Coleman and eventually he come through enough Rangers fans rate him to at least give him a chance.

We don't have that many options.

If Roberto turns down anything over a bag of Maltesers then all I can say is...MARTINEZ OUT!

Didn't Moyes already ruin Rooney before he was sold to United?

The strange thing is that he actually looked a good player in pre season.

So what the hell happened? He couldn't pass, run, dribble or control a football. The only thing he could do was pop up with the odd goal. That's what baffled me. If Moyes insisted on playing him then surely he should have given him a go up front, after all, we were struggling there.

That said, I'd bite someone's hand off for £2 - 3 million.

The Moyestros mind works in strange ways Phil.

"That said, I'd bite someone's hand off for £2 - 3 million."

Phil, I'd eat their arse just for taking him off the wage bill!

So, in his first week as Everton boss, Roberto Martinez looks to have secured deals for 30-year-old players Kone and Alcaraz and turned down actual money for Steven Naismith. Hardly inspiring stuff is it??

The Martinez era seems to be getting off to a whimper.

Any amount preceded by a £-sign should be accepted. The guy is Championship standard at best, the mere fact that he is actually paid wages by a club who has less money than a homeless smackhead sends shivers down my spine.

Barry, how on earth can you compare Coleman to Naismith????!?

Coleman came with very little footballing background. He was a late starter and was quite young. Naismith was 25 when we bought him and already playing top level football for quite a while (well as top level as Scottish football gets).

Coleman looked great from the start with his mazy runs and energetic performances even when played out of position. When played in his natural right back role, he looks superb.

Naismith scored 3 in one pre-season game, then has done nothing since to justify his inclusion in anything but our reserves, despite being given more of a go than any of our fringe players. The guy has very few footballing qualities of note, although I suspect his finishing is decent given some of the goals he has scored. He is Championship quality at best.

If we've rejected a bid for him, then I can only assume RM thinks he can get more, or doesn't know quite how shit Naismith is.

Sorry, I can't resist this one. If there's any proof that RM shouldn't be at the club, this is it. Turn down offers? I'd give him away for free... I'd even drive him anywhere he wanted to go! Lol.

Steve, since when is a rumour in the Sunday People suddenly "proof"?

Steve, shut it mate. He's been in the job a week. If you think you can do better than Martinez, go ahead and do it.

He is working with an incompetent chairman and a useless board. He can't just get rid of 6 or 7 players just because they couldn't cut it under the DM era, our squad is small enough.

Who would our attacking options be if we got rid of Velios, Naismith and others?

No, Eric, last time I checked, Rooney's best international tournament was when he was an Everton player. When he moved to Man Utd he had pace and was being touted as even better than Ronaldo. Now he can't even get into the United team for big games. How did Moyes ruin him again? But sure just make up a bit of history to fit your agenda.

Naismith knows where the net is and was free. If Martinez can fit him into the team and get him scoring then great, if not he'll be sold eventually for more than we bought him for. Win-win.

James

Erm, sarcasm anyone?

So far I'm very underwhelmed with Roberto Martinez.

Will we finally sign Kone??? I really couldn't care less.

It's the least excited I've felt about a new manager.

Had we signed Nathan Redmond and sold Naismith this week I would be jumping up and down. But keeping Naismith and signed 30-year-old Kone is very..... meh.

I think your anger should be directed at our useless board and incompetent chairman rather than our manager Dick.

Unbelievable negativity on here. Lighten up, Murray won Wimbledon!

My apologies if it was, Phil, there's just been so much ridiculous rewriting of history recently to try and prove Moyes was an awful manager.

I think that if David Moyes really wants Naismith at Man Utd we should not stand in his way.

Great a Scotsman won Wimbledon and Everton are signing a 30-year-old striker and keeping Steven Naismith.

Oh Happy Days.

Laugh I do. Heinkel bomber found on the moon, blame Martinez, blame Kenwright, it is the fucking Sunday People......

Sell him to Man Utd... obviously Moyes liked him.

Okay, Naismith didn't set the world on fire last season... He is experienced in playing in Europe scored goals and historically linked well with Jelavic and was very popular north of the border. Be fair, we all saw the sense in him coming here. He was crap, fine, so was Jelavic... shall we sell him for £2m too?

Pienaar was pants for a lot of last season, lets flog him, yeah! We don't have a big squad, RM has been here a week, the players didn't report back until midweek. Give the guy a chance, FFS.
More moaning about Kone's age. WTF, how old was Campbell?? Further ramblings about the wonders of Nathan Redmond (19, unproven and attracted... Norwich!!!).

We have a new manager, new backroom, I also think a new tactical focus, BUT the same old negative ToffeeWebbers.

[Sorry for the rant, It's too hot and I'm at work!!]

Naismith never started one game in his favourite position behind the striker last season.

Every time I saw him play or come of the bench was to play RW. He has no pace and looks light weight, and almost every full back in the prem is a big, strong, and quick international.

I thought it was bad management to ask him to do a job he clearly hasn't got the tools to do. Just like when we played Osman out wide.

Judge him in his natural position. I'm sure he'd be an ok reserve for the number 10 role. Quick feet, can see a pass and times his runs into box well. Obviously, Honda, Pienaar, mirralas would be ahead of him for that role. But mirralas will be used wide and Honda might not sign so we need cover.

True. He may not be Zico but he was willing to play out of position and always tried to put in a full shift.

Maybe this is a sign of a gradual exodus of squad members Mr Martinez would like to replace. They can't be let go for free and initial offers are normally declined. Looks like changes are on the way.

James, worth remembering that "free" players are never "free"; I suspect Naismith is getting through a good £2M / season in wages.

Harold, I'd happily play out of position and put in a full shift. That should be a bare minimum required to play for the club, not the full requirement. One big problem I have with Naismith is that he's not actually a vast amount better than the youth/reserves we have....and he's keeping them out of the team.

Perhaps Bobby can get more out of him. Playing him out of position until his confidence was shattered was perhaps not very good for him. I'm no fan by the way but perhaps there is more to him than we've seen so far.

I think this is good news. Okay, he's not exactly a first-XI type player but we shouldn't be looking to shrink the squad any further.

Build, not demolish.

I think we should sell the lad for what we can get. Use the money to bring in some up-and-coming promising lad. One think for sure is that Naismith is not good enough if we want to get to the next level.

Surly if Roberto is as good as he/many thinks he is, he must have loads of young talent he has been monitoring. We need someone to ignite the new EFC revolution. Up to now, it's been as boring as ever.

Chris (#267): I forgot to say that, for his wages (probably about £30k per week), we cant afford him as a bench warmer.

Maybe it was Naismith who Man Utd offered £12 mil for... lol.

I'm undecided whether Martinez is good or not but will wait till the end of August to have an idea. I will know who he has actually signed and sold by them. Let's back him and give him support till we know exactly what his plans are.

Can I add that I thought Naismith was world class at winning headers and flick-ons that he shouldn't win when he was out on the right? – Just trying to be positive! Perhaps if that skill was used in the box we'd see a different, albeit still limited, player.

But I don't believe a word printed in the Daily Star, except the word Daily.

Some of the comments on here are hilarious and go to show how little some fans actually know about football. I don't personally rate Naismith but I would not slaughter the lad like some of you have done here as the poor twat never really got a chance since his arrival.

Regardless of his quality (or lack of), any professional footballer will tell you that you need game time on a regular basis in your favoured position to show your best form. Naismith has never had this luxury at Everton. A start here in one position then 15 minutes as s sub, three games later in another etc etc. Then dropped for games then brought back as sub... Do you get the picture? No chance to build proper match fitness or form.

On the other hand, Leon Osman has for the past 11 years reeked the place out. Most weeks, apart from an odd decent shift every few months, Osman has been as bad as Naismith and few of you bat an eyelid when he is re-signed... Nasmith is no world beater – in fact, he is extremely avaerage... but he has hardly had two games in a row. Leave the kid alone. As I say, Osman has had a lifetime of being shit and he escapes the flak.

I didn't rate him at all last season but let's just see how he fairs with a different manager and different tactics. No-one would have foreseen the dramatic change in Coleman or even Jelavic last season so I reckon we should give him one more chance.

Alan 270

That can be said of any player re wages. But if you only paid your best XI the best wages then no other player would come to us.

Bids, my arse... Who is willing to take this joker off us? Saying that, if Johnjo Shelvey is worth £5 million, Naismith must be worth £10 million.
What is the Kone delay also? Alcraz is available free. Why has he not been signed?

As BK tells his actors, there no business like Everton doing business.

Get him on eBay.

If Martinez doesn't accept an offer for Naismith, then I shall be joining the MOB!!! Sell, sell, sell Robbie!!

Chris 276: I agree that we need to pay the going rate. I do however think that Naismith will not make it at EFC. All I am saying is give the 30K to someone who at least has a chance.

The joy he brought us all when scored against the shite.

Mick - and pain he brought to us by over hitting that pass to Jelky in the Norwich game.
Wayne Smyth and Ross Edwars (earlier) can't you see I was having a laugh!!!

Alan 283

I'd be inclined to agree with you if he was on 30K a week but I doubt he'd be on that much. I'd also agree if we had a big squad with loads of quality but we don't.

I think we should try and keep what we have and build upwards

Steve 288

It wouldn't have mattered if he'd have given it Jelavic on a plate with an open goal 2 yards out because last season he looked clueless

Martinez can't and shouldn't get shut of any players until he gets to line them up to the style he wants to see played and gives them a go. If they don't make the grade of the "sin miedo" style Martinez favours, then off they go to the highest bidder. The dour, horsehair waistcoat wearer has gone and how a player performed for him is no longer valid.

Gavin - your football analysis is, as they say, "spot on". However, your sartorial critique is horribly misguided. A waistcoat is a marvellously stylish item and the polar opposite of dour. Our former manager could have made a clown's costume look dull, such was the dismal power of his dour personality. Furthermore, I suspect that what DM was wearing was actually a cardigan, possibly sleeveless, not a waistcoat at all. Yours sincerely, Beau Brummell.

Kev, would you recommend said sleeveless cardie with a nice oxford button down collar complimented with worsted trousers, brown brogues perhaps?

Retaining Baines and Fella are the keys to our chase for the CL next season. If that means retaining Naismith too, fine by me.

Christ, some of you can be brutal. Let's see if he gets a consistent run. He scored at least.

Kev and Iain — you both missed the key part of the dour article: horsehair — itchy as fuck and a trait of the seriously delusional religious barnpots from the Middle Ages in the form of a cilice worn deliberately to inflict self pain.

Ha ha Tony, only you could claim that players need a chance in their proper positions before then slating Osman who has played how many seasons in his best position? 1. That of course was the season he got picked for England and was one of our most consistent players.

Give him another go this season, we're a paper thin squad as it is, let Bobby have a good look at the squad perform first & foremost. I am sure that anyone who doesn't cut the mustard will be shown the door in time.

My main concern is players coming in! Just give us one fucking top name, to keep our slim hopes of winning a trophy this season alive... a name that will make not only make our own fans sit up & take notice, but all footy fans. Find the fucking money, get all our lazy shower of shite board to put their hands in their pockets for the first time in fucking years. They've got it, folks, always did have, the time for finally backing our manager in NOW. No excuses, no more bullshit – just fucking buy big!

Gavin - in my desire to defend the waistcoat, I did overlook the horsehair aspect, it's true. (I'm acquainted with medieval forms of self-punishment, incidentally.) There have been quite a few anti-waistcoat comments on TW, and I'm not having it. Otherwise, I'm with you all the way.

Ian - that sounds like a coherent look, yes, although the cardigan can be a little, how can I put it, too comfortable. The waistcoat, on the other hand, is always exceedingly dapper.

My idea for the next Everton shirt? A waistcoat-type design, with little white buttons down the front, and a separate dress collar, attached with a stud. Come on, sports casual has been done, let's go try something different.

Gavin, self inflicted pain. Man Utd next season!

Kevin, I can just see Mirallas tearing through the RS defence with his collar flapping. Class mate!

Thinking about it, Mirallas is being played out of position on the right. He adapted as he is a fantastic footballer; however, I believe he would be even better playing in behind a striker in his natural position.

Naismith is also out of position on the right, and is nowhere near the class of Mirallas. Coleman was out of position on the right of midfield; however, he is incredible at right back, and Osman being utilised at right midfield was a joke. Does no-one else think that an investment in our right side might have been a good idea over the past three years that we have had practically no-one to play there?

Even more scary when you start to look to youth: Matthew Kennedy looks like a real prospect but I am fairly sure he operates on the left. Who else is there? I have scared myself with the thought of our lack of right-sided players.

[Sorry for the long essay. Probably wasn't worth reading.]

If he's going to be used as back-up/sub to play behind the striker or as a second striker; I'd keep him and see how he does this season.

If not, there's no point keeping him, we've all seen he isn't a Premier League wide midfielder/attacker — take as much as we can get for him.

James Martin. Nice one.

"Roberto Martinez has rejected a number of offers..."

Translation...

"Roberto Martinex wants to let any interested parties know, this guy is for sale. Come get him please! Thanks."

Relax folks.

Naismith hasn't even played a game under Martinez yet. I think last season was a huge wake up call for him. If he is irrelevant by January, I think RM will consider selling him if we can replace him with an obvious upgrade on the cheap.

It's good to have the offers though. At least we know that he could possibly be sold quickly if he doesn't work out.

Selling Naismith would be like a new signing.

Naismith has been played out of position but has worked hard and got a few goals. Moyes liked to have players who could play in a variety of positions. Unfortunately he hadn't the first clue who these players were.

So we had Jagielka in midfield, Osman wide right, Naismith wherever the fuck, Barkley at another club and Hibbert at centre half ahead of Duffy. I hope Roberto gives the whole squad an equal chance and that favouritism is gone. Come in, do well and get a run in the side.

Naismith is a support striker. Can anyone on here tell me how many games he actually started or came on alongside Jelavic? Already said on previous posts, every time Moyes played Naismith he played him out wide in midfield. We all know he's no Peter Reid or Ronaldo but give the lad a fair crack in his favoured position and see how he does. I hold my hands up he's useless the position he's played in but have nothing to lose trying him further forward, Then judge the player.

Quite a few players were played out of position by Moyes, Naismith for one... but one thing you do not do is play your best centre half, Jagielka, at right back to accommodate Heitinga, Naismith is worth keeping and tried out alongside a striker to see how he shapes; if no improvement, then yes, let him go... but not before having a few games alongside a striker.

I think we understand that Naismith was played out of position... but is he good enough for us? No. He is a squad player... he will not score enough goals in a second striker position, and is not naturally creative enough. Personally I'd look to sell him and put the money toward another attacking natural wide player.

And Tony... what is your obsession with Osman? He had a good season this year and, as has been pointed out, has been frequently played out of position throughout his Everton career. I'm amazed that we managed, with an awful Phil Neville, and an awful Osman, to play so well in the first few months of the season... if only we had had 11 decent plays on the pitch, eh?

Jim. You're right about Osman. Moyes picked him out as his top player. Said he covered more ground than anyone. A real worker.

Phil #251 spot on.

Wayne #265, then perhaps it would work better if Howard and Naismith swapped positions if a bit of skill in the position you are required to play is not important?

He was crap in Scotland and hardly improved once he arrived here.I can`t believe Roberto rates him but he probably said`no` to Rangers who wanted him back for nowt after he had pocketed a big signing on fee to come here.
Won`t be long with us,though,I predict.

Being played out of position doesn't prevent a premier league footballer from being able to control, dribble or pass a ball...

WBA are trying to buy Saloman Kalou who has a £2.6million buy out clause. Perfect replacement for Naismith

I am of the opinion that Naismith is not - cannot be - as bad as he looked last season. The only way is up for him. He might be worth holding on to until January, as a squad player. He plainly can't do a job at right midfield, but with a different formation (4-3-3?) he might just come good.

Alternatively, it's feasible that publicising the fact that offers have been made is a way of encouraging more, higher, offers. Otherwise, why mention it?

If Kalou's release clause is really that low, it's a remarkably good deal. He'd get near/in double figures in an attacking team if played every week in a wide position. Can you also play through the middle.

That's as reported on the BBC Jim. I know he would cost more than Naismith in wages but that really does seem too good to be true. He only turns 28 in August as well

"Being played out of position doesn't prevent a premier league footballer from being able to control, dribble or pass a ball..." - Spot on!
--
Also how has a threat about Martinez rejecting offers ended up in yet another Moyes bashing? He's gone, get over it, move on etc etc

There is a threat dedicated to the bashers already, use that one.

Phil #341, he was crap in Scotland?

"Being played out of position doesn't prevent a Premier League footballer from being able to control, dribble or pass a ball'.

It depends what type of player he is though doesn't it. If you stuck Pirlo or Xavi (once again obviously not a comparison to Naismith before someone jumps down my throat) on the wing sure they could control and pass the ball backwards but what good would that do? They're not going to dribble past anyone as they have no pace and they're not going to pass forward as most of the time they'd have their back to goal or shut down immediately by the full back. In the middle of the park though with time to pick a pass and dictate play they're two of the world's best players. Van Nistlerooy was a top top striker yet would be worse than useless on the wing. Jagielka is a great CB but is shambolic at RB

Some players like Mirallas have the pace and skill to play multiple positions. Others don't but it doesn't mean that they have no value whatsoever. Osman and Naismith seem to get held up to ridiculous standards just for having a go at playing out of position. If they were some mercurial foreigner who didn't give one on the pitch unless he was in his perfect position then you'd probably all be drooling over him blaming Moyes for playing him out of position. A British player over the age of 22 putting in a bit of effort in a blue shirt seems to be anathema on this site these days.

To be fair to Naismith, he was pretty terrible last season but was coming off the back of a bad injury and never got a run in the team due to his pitiful form as a sub.

Given a few starts he might be up to the job, so he should probably be given that chance - that said, does Martinez have the time/leeway to see if he's up to it? Possibly not, but maybe some game time in pre-season he might turn out to be half decent.

It's very difficult to judge him on short sub appearances, but he was indeed dreadful for the most part. Sell him? Not for a huge fee, and we'd be one player less squad-wise with no replacement waiting in the wings, it's a tricky one.

He's a second striker, or was at Rangers and he & Jelavic were pretty good together in the SPL - that though, as we all know, isn't much of an indicator.

James...why would a winger have their back to goal most of the time? You've been watching some strange football matches...

Your notion is good though...Modric is a prime example. Has had a very poor season at Real because he was too often stuck in a wide position (where he also played awfully for Spurs when winger injurers necessitated his shift), instead of the Xabi Alonso position he should be playing in. But I can understand the anti-Naismith sentiment nonetheless... his passing and control were too often missing...Osman, when played wide, still managed those generally. Osman's main crime when played out wide, imo was his constant moving inside, and the loss of our structure consequently, and his obvious lack of pace, which renders 99% of wing players pretty useless. He deserves a go at it in an AMC/second striker position of course...but I doubt he has the ability to shine there. And personally, I'd prefer to see Fellaini, Barkley, or even Osman and Pienaar playing behind the main striker and potential Naismith money used elsewhere. If he stays, I doubt any/many of us will deny him another go at it...but I'd be surprised if he turns into the kind of player that will be valuable to us.

I'm no Naismith fan, but when people say "blame the person that bought him" Paul #213....etc
Maybe you forget the price that was paid......0

Lets blame the guy who bought Cahill, Lescott, Bains and Aretea........etc

Jim do you ever see Pienaar get the ball facing goal? Most of the itme he's got hsi back to it and can only turn once Baines has overlapped. perhaps that was a fault of the Moyes system but we never seemed to play our wingers in running on goal.

That was half the problem with Naismith. if he had ever got it in space with room to run then a bad touch wouldn't have been as telling but the way we played he always got it under extreme pressure and without any pace couldn't do much but pass it backwards the way he was facing.

This playing him out of position is a load of tosh, doesn't matter where you play if you aren't that good. He plied his trade in the Scottish leagues and was found out when stepping up to the big league (see James McFadden). Championship player at best; get rid asap.

In regards to Modric playing out of position another prime example was bob latc ford and Gary Lineker, could you imagine them playing on the wing or dribbling or tackling,I'm not comparing Naismith for one moment with those two but you get either of those two playing in a none striking role and see how many tackles or dribbles they actually did in a game, all I am saying is see how Naismith does in a supporting striker role before we write the guy off completely.

Steven Telford,

You sound like you are pining for David?