Red Bull look for English club to buy

I've just read this in one of the Sunday papers... so Red Bull are after buying a Premier League club? Only two clubs mentioned: Everton and Liverpool. Don't suppose we could be that lucky.... could we?......

Nev, have a read of this as to why we should have fuck all to do with Red Bull if this rumour turns out to be actually true:

http://www.violett-weiss.at/img/20060113FSF.pdf.

So, if Red Bull choose to take over us as is being rumoured, would you be happy with it, despite the possible rebranding that would follow?

A blue Goodison Park with "Red Bull" everywhere – don't think so, there's enough Bull that comes out of the club as it is!

I'd just like to say that if they act like the Cardiff owners (change strip colour), I would hate it and they can keep their money.

Red Bull gives you wingers?

Grabs coat.

Vodka and Red Bull on matchdays? That would keep the lads energised for 90 minutes wouldn't it?

The only 'Red' I could live with would be the Red Bull logo on our shirt but if they start changing our kit (colour), stadium name or worse even, our club name — eg, Everton Red Bulls — then they can stuff their money.

I don't think they will Colin, I mean the Red Bull F1 team has blue livery, and I'm sure they'd respect our history if it was to happen.

Anyhow, Bill and the like would tell them the criteria before a possible takeover would be agreed.

I hope you're right, Ross, but when I look at Cardiff and the MK Dons etc... it makes my skin crawl.

I'm sure Bill would consider every little bit of detail before he put pen to paper on a deal.

If he didn't like any aspect of the deal, he'd refuse.

The only caffeine injection we are likely to get is when the majority of the supporters 'wake up and smell the coffee' and realise that BK isn't going to sell the club anytime soon.

But, then again, maybe Tim Cahill has been selling the club on our behalf and Red Bull are interested, it would make a change from the Blue Bull we have had to endure for the past 20 years!!!

Good point Patrick. Would Blue Bill change his nickname to Red Bull for a fistful of dollars?

Red bull?
Blue Bill Bullshit

It appears that the Red Bull takeover of FC Salzburg caused a lot of bad feeling with totally insensitive re-branding.

Allegedly they described "Red Bull" Salzburg as a new club with no history. It seems to me that a Liverpool – Red Bull partnership would, therefore, be perfect.

Sounds like what happened to FC Salzburg was pretty horrific and caused huge division. No thanks.

I suppose if something does come of this they will do whatever they want to. We won't have a say but then we don't have one anyway under this regime do we? Oh well, que sera sera.

Sam, I know the rebranding was horrific to them, but their honours since the takeover are as follows:

Austrian Bundesliga

Champions: 2006–07, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2011–12

Austrian Cup
Winners: 2012

Pre takeover, the club had only won 3 titles, but in 7 years since RB control, they have won 4 titles and the Austrian Cup for the first time.

It may have been horrific at first, but RB Salzburg are considered to be the best team.

I know if we do get taken over, they may well rebrand us, but if that means money to spend, helpful European connections, and a chance of silverware, it's a chance we can't afford to miss.

Everton would be the only choice... Liverpool are already owned by a wealthy owner and as a club we are very near to the top table but just need the security of a wealthy owner to stop our talent going to Manchester. Ee also bring through young local players.

If I was Red Bull, there is only one team — Everton.

Fear not Colin, I'm sure if they did take us over, rename the club, change the shirts (the New York and Salzburg kits are identical) I'm sure the masses would be moved to protest and march....

Oh. Well... maybe send strongly-worded articles to TW.

Is the guy Ralf Rangnick the same man who was linked with the Everton job before Roberto took over?

Yes Patrick, he was. A Rangnick-Martinez duo sounds exciting.

I don't like the idea of this company taking over Everton. Being a supporter since 1952, I guess I am too ingrained in the tradition of the club to see radical changes for the branding of Red Bull products using Everton's standing and support in the Premier League.

The sad thing about this is, in the modern game, money talks; if the offer was made and accepted, we as supporters would have to accept it.

In reports that I have heard, Rangnick would oversee the running of the club and that would mean the flavour of the month having a Director of Football, with the Manager of his choice running the team.

Put simply, it's a moral dilemma:

History, heritage and traditions vs Investment and ambition.

Just be careful what you wish for, the rebranding exercise would result with the new brush sweeping clean. The new owners would, for the want of a better expression, conduct a full-blown cull.

Ultimately, me, you and every other supporter would have to pay for any takeover, either through ticketing and merchandise.

Bill Kenwright's Everton "Red Bull-Shitters". You pay your money, you makes your choice

They should buy Bristol Rovers.

Obviously on one hand we desperately need investment if we're too compete. However I don't really see that this one does have wings.

As buying football clubs hasn't traditionally been a business that anyone should go into with the realistic aim of making loads of money (not that it's impossible - see Glazers, Bates, etc), the main reasons that people buy clubs seem to be one or more of:
a) political (Chelsea keeps Abramovich nicely tied to London for instance)
b) vanity/new play thing (see Chelsea again, but also City, Blackburn, Portsmouth, etc)
c) promotion of another business/brand (Wigan, Liverpool, Fulham could all potentially be argued this way)
d) genuine love of the club/community and wish to give back (see Jack Walker for Blackburn, Harding for Chelsea, Mike Ashley at and to a degree the likes of Whelan and arguably Kenwright)

Obviously for Red Bull it's clearly brand promotion that they are gunning for and this automatically presents a problem to a club like ours who values our history (and indeed who's history is a key part of the value). Rebranding Goodison to Red Bull Park for instance is obviously a no go, although the building of a purpose built Red Bull Arena would arguably be more palatable. Likewise, changes to team name or first team shirts would be unthinkable to most fans (although a Red Bull second/third kit could perhaps work).

Ultimately, although I don't have a problem with the brand getting involved, as a company they tend to be winners (as they've proved in spades with their core business and the cut-throat high ball world of Formula One), I can see a range of better options for them, most based in London.

QPR will likely be back in the Prem next year and I'm sure Tony Fernandes wouldn't object to getting his money back, Crystal Palace would be a budget option, Fulham's new owner could turn a quick buck and I'm sure Sullivan and Gold wouldn't shut the door to interest at West Ham (with their impending refashioned Olympic stadium that could presumably also host some extreme sports shenanigans).

You can't buy something that's not for sale.

Personally. I do not think that there would be a full-blown cull.

Takeovers by companies are usually conducted to buy companies that are well run with the reality of financial gain with improvement. Most people who are let go are in the directors positions while the people running the club on a daily basis are assessed over the next couple of months.

If Red Bull wanted to sweep clean and start off fresh, they might as well buy Crystal Palace and struggle for a couple of seasons. With both Everton and Liverpool mentioned it seems they recognize that the two clubs are well run from the top to the bottom and financial input will get them financial gain.

How many supporters using TW have screamed for a takeover to get rid of BK and his inept board? I do not like this supposed takeover but, as I stated, money talks... and Who knows? we may become one of Sky's darlings (sickening).

We don't have anything to worry about. If they buy a Premier League club, it will be West Ham. They're soon going to be playing in a massive brand new stadium, they're in the capital city and Gold and Sullivan could walk away from their second club with a fortune in their back pocket. On top of this, West Ham's natural catchment area is one of the most populous places in Europe. It's amazing that The Hammers are not already vying for Europe every season. If I had the money to buy a Premier League club right now, WHU are a no-brainer.

Oops, went off early, I meant to add...

The sad reality is that you CAN buy your way into the Champions League when it comes to playing staff. Neither Chelsea nor City were in the mix until their sugar daddies came along and looking at the current top 10 in the league, or indeed the top 6 or 7 of the last 5 seasons, only a few clubs (well actually 2) have got there without serious investment in their playing staff.

As you can see from the link below, the challengers have spent big in terms of gross transfers and net outlay (with the exception of Spurs who have a Gareth Bale shaped financial fig leaf) and Arsenal (who I actually believe are by far the best run club in the division) http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html

Naturally transfers only tells a part of the story, wages are actually the bigger cost (and one where Spurs and Arsenal might be a little higher up the table) and we'd be one or two rungs up also (although with the comparative squad sizes, maybe not too many).

Anyway, in a round about way my point is really that success can (and has been) bought if you've got cash and some sort of basic base - i.e. you're in the premier league and a city that players won't recoil from. We are obviously one club that ticks that box as well as being potentially for sale, but then so do a fair few others.

I find it hilarious people could say "sure, they might change the name of the club and the ground and the strip but we could be successful".

If you don't care for anything core to the club except what silverware is in the cabinet, why not fuck off and pick your oh-my-god-totally-favorite-team 3 games from the end of each season?

I hope Everton win trophies to build on their history. "Red Bull Everton" would be just some characterless new club whose name sounds familiar. They seem more interested in London, maybe they'd build a new stadium down there for their franchise?

Rangnick, at one point in May, was the bookies favourite when it was alleged he was interviewed by Kenwright for the managers job! Perhaps Kenwright did talk to him but not about the managerial role... Maybe there is a chance of investment.

I know clubs like Hull and Cardiff are having to massively change their identities as a result of foreign ownership but surely they wouldn't expect EFC to change colour? Yes, there would probably be some stadium naming rights (on the potential new stadium or the redeveloped GP) but that's just modern business.

And I would prefer Vodka/Red Bull to a pint of Chang any day of the week. Although I do admit I wish this company was called Blue Bull instead!

How are Qatar Man City doing?

Dunno Paul. Maybe Abu Dhabi City can tell us?

Perhaps we could do a reverse rebrand, change Red Bull into Blue Bill?

What league do they play in, Matt?

It doesn't matter who it is or what company or person etc, no-one will buy us with what Bill and his friends are asking for the club — what is it? £160 million... no chance we will ever be taken over.

I agree with the posts about West Ham — they are the most obvious choice for me, and the sad thing is even a team like Stoke with a new stadium and options to extend it would be a better and cheaper option for anyone wanting to buy an established Premier League club.

John @314, West Ham do jump out at you considering the stadium they will have. Gold and Sullivan are no mugs, I can't see them having taken on West Ham if the club had a large debt around it's neck.

Buying West Ham will make far more sense to a company like Red Bull. While obviously strong financially, there is no way Red Bull has anything like the finances of a oil shiek. The 100m it would take to build a new stadium and clear the debt at Everton before you do anything else could immediately buy you four or five top drawer players at West Ham.

I agree with Chris James. They will probably go for a London club over us so I'm not going to bother any further with this one. I bet BK thought he might get a chance to have a spin in a F1 car, à la James Hunt.

They're likely to want the London connection and for that reason it's possible they'll go for West Ham. They'll have the Olympic stadium, an already fairly decent squad and a solid fanbase.

Don't think much of Allardyce's chances, though.

Colin 328,

Bill is already the closest thing we have got to a James Hunt at the club

I can just see it now Carl. There you go big Sam, here's 100m of a transfer budget. Away off and buy us a world class playmaker.

What's that Sam, why did we keep you as our manager? Well, we like the way you've managed 456 English clubs and never won anything, you're the manager for us. We like the way you don't go in for all this modern continental approach to football where you actually try to keep the ball and pass it. Well, if we're being honest, we did fancy that Harry Redknapp bloke. You must have heard of him, apparently he has managed 625 English clubs without ever winning anything, but apparently he should have been the next England manager. Anyway, he said he was staying with QPR as he wants to win something called the Zenith Data Systems cup. He said it was way better than the CL and that modern football was rubbish.

I am all for getting new owners and times change etc, but reading what happened to Austria Salzburg does raise the question: Just how much change would you be willing to tolerate, to get some success?

Everyone has their own likes but if Everton were to be called Red Bull Everton, have the kit changed to blue, red and white and have US style circus/corporate ads/events during games – I am not so sure I'd be happy with that, even if we started to win something.

Call me a traditionalist but winning trophies is not the be-all and end-all of being a football fan – otherwise 99% of fans would not support their local club.

I could just about stomach changing the name of the stadium – assuming they rebuilt it or built a new one, but not changing the strip colours to Red Bull colours or god forbid the name of the club!

Fuck that – let them buy West Ham instead if they want a London club!

It's bad enough that Sky make out that there was no football before 1992 (most premiership appearances, most premiership goals, Barry about to make his 500th Premership appearance etc etc), but to simply wipe away the entire history of Everton Football Club? That would be enough to make me stop supporting the 'club' completely.

This would be perfect synergy for me as my local MLS club is New York Red Bulls. Energy drink lucre over oil lucre any day!

We don't need to sacrifice our whole identity to bring some success to the club.

There is plenty of potential for any new ownership, without having to sell out completely.

No thank you.

When the BK meeting was announced with Rangnick, I wondered if it really was a meeting re a possible takeover sounding out.

Well, I for one don't want Red Bull as they simply pillage without care and rebrand, without respect for history or tradition of the purchased clubs, based upon there previous accusations and the fan feedback in both Austria and Germany where the clubs' badges and club colours have been altered to simply reflect the RB logos.

I also expressed concern as to the badge which was 'selected' for us for this present season: Was this a precursor for feedback to reactions to change? Maybe, maybe not?

Yes, success has been gained in Austria but fans felt forced to re-form a 'new' club with the old logo and club colours. in Germany, due to league rules, they could not call the club 'Red Bull' so they called them 'RB Leipzig' (Rasenballsport Leipzig) and are moved up the leagues and are among the favourites for promotion again to the Bundesliga 2, but once again the fans have protested at the willful dissection and rebranding of everything the club had: colours, badge, history etc.

if this has any truth whatsoever, we should be worried – very worried, I for one would not want a silver pot for the sake of losing everything I know and love about my club.

Everton FC til I die... bollocks to corporate commercialism rebranding sports clubs. What next?? Pizza Hut City vs Red Bull London???

Fundamentally, Red and Everton don't really go, do they?

I can't help thinking, if it happened, Everton AFC would be around the corner – like Wimbledon.

Then it would be more like a severe relegation.

No problem with a stadium name or shirt sponsorship, but not 'Everton Red Bulls'... argh!.

Aiden #316, spot on.

Kieran 333,

Allardyce will be the first out of the door as part of Red Bull's strategy of trimming the, er, fat off the wage bill.

Didn't Big Sam say on the last MotD that he was changing his name to Sam Allerdichi or was it arrivederci?

I dare say West Ham, and their well ill-gotten Olympic Stadium, would be a team they would likely consider.

I fully understand the negative sentiments regarding the possible sale of Everton to a corporate entity, and especially one with 'Red' in its title, but if we don't get sold in the next few years, where will we end up?

It's hard enough knowing that, no matter how hard the manager and players try, it's likely that at least six clubs are in a better position than we are to finish in the top 6 places. When you add in the potential of clubs such as QPR and West Ham and to a lesser extent those of Southampton, Newcastle and perhaps even Sunderland, you begin to realise that Everton's last ten years although not exciting may be the best that we can hope for. If all or any of those clubs I mentioned do begin to fulfil their potential that makes mid-table our natural finishing position which is fantastically depressing given our history etc.

So those who say "Be careful what you wish for," I understand fully, but it's a little bit scary to think that we will be truly in the wilderness if we continue to see our club attempting to push water up hill season after season.

Even though they have "Red" in their names, their cans are blue and white. They have a blueberry flavored version of the drink we could promote. What concerns me more are the potential risks involved drinking the stuff after exercise and it may encourage young people to start drinking it. Its unhealthy properties would leave a bad taste in the mouth – as the vile-tasting drink does.

They can get lost. I like our tradition. The annual struggle. It's part of my life.

Never going to happen.

Harold,

That statement could have been spoken by Mr Chairman himself.

Summed it up in one there Harold - I agree, wouldn't be the same swimming with the tide!

No. End off...

Patrick 347,

I agree with you that unless we are sold we will be in long-term trouble.

The question is whether anyone will stump up £125 million or whatever the asking price is for a loss-making business that turns over £80-odd million. To that question there is but one answer.

Something like six people have died doing their adverts, they have the dark word in their brand name and their drink is akin to drain cleaner so it's a "sorry, but I won't be investing today" from me.

Not wanting to break the tradition of not winning nothing........... Harold et al. I don't want to ridicule you, because I kind of half know what you mean, there is a romance to punching above our weight........etc however, it's still too absurd a position to take.

The can is half silver, not half white, is it not? Maybe they would change that for us. ;-)

"Cheers to the Blueberry Toffees........" We need the money.

And as for not wanting to promote it because it's not a healthy drink... have you ever tried Chang?

Bill Kenwright has been the largest shareholder at Everton for a decade, and in this time we have regained the pride and respect that was lost in the dark days of the 90s (Royle excepted). I know he hasn't got the billions needed to take us further, but I believe he has the best interests of the club at heart, like most of us.
Rather than risk the destruction of 135 years of proud history and leave the club as some rich man's toy, I'm happy to see an Evertonian at the helm of a rocky boat and leave the Costa Concordias to the cockneys and Mancs

Harold@351 — "The annual struggle. It's part of my life."

Hear, hear, well said.

Supporting Everton is like having a red hot poker shoved up your doo dah whilst watching party political broadcasts on a 24/7 365 Groundhog Day loop.

Never ever enjoyable and constantly painful. Sane people would walk away but not us.

Those wanting investment to make that situation easier should be ashamed...

Mick, I know how you feel, I hate how in the modern game you can't appear to win anything wihtout selling your soul. It would be great if Roberto could lead us to title after title on nothing but academy products and the gate returns from Goodison Park but sadly that's unlikely to be the case. Why do we, as a fan group always want to do everything the hard way?

It's not enough for us to want to challenge the top teams by spending less than them, no we expect our managers to do it by spending practically nothing. Fans of Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd had absolutely no qualms about selling their soul to the highest bidder because it brought them success. Why do we hold on to our virtues so much and see being backed by an investor as some form of cheating — even though everyone in the Premier League apart from us is doing it?

Ultimately football is about winning, it has to be. Pre-1992, no-one would have taken this deal because there was always the chance that the right group of players might come together under the right manager and you could have a run at the league. Now, if that did happen, the top teams would just dismantle your squad systematically whilst their ability to buy world class talent halfway through a season always ensures their spots at the top table of the Champions League and their pulling power over any player.

What is the worser fate? Watching Everton running out as Premier League Champions in the Red Bull Arena or watching Everton never coming close to a league title for the rest of your life? We can't just exist in the Premier League — the very fibre of this club is winning, in particular the domestic championship — that is our history. Turning our back on this is arguably as bad as changing our stadium or our kit sponsor.

If Red Bull were truly offering us the opportunity to get into the top 4 and one day have a go at the title again, then I would accept it. I could accept any form of Red Bull Arena, any novelty sized can outside the ground, any stupid logo on our shirts. I think the line would have to be held at the name (it would take me a long time to stomach Everton Red Bulls) but in my eyes they could stamp 'Red Bull' on whatever else they wanted — how is it any different to Chang... Etihad... Emirates?

Red Bull is ambitious to have winners. 180 degrees opposite of current ownership.

Yes, they have draped "Red Bull" over everything; including my NY Red Bulls. So what? Not the same as buying the first Club of England.

There won't be any "Welcome to Goodison Red Bull Stadium and how do you like our new red undies" nonsense.

They're wildly successful and didn't attain it being fucking stupid.

We need owners with ambition. Red Bull will do as well as any other.

I doubt very much that they will buy us, they need to find £350m to build a new stadium.

Even Chelski's Roman has baulked at paying that much up front for his beloved Chelski.

Red Bull have bought clubs with stadiums in place already (that's their way).

I have a fair Idea who they will buy. If the bookies open a book on this one, my money is going on the Hammers and their all new Red Bull Olympic stadium, that they're about get for next to nothing!

Red Bull will be thinking:

EFC = New Stadium £350m + New Players £100m (+ Not very wealthy city)

WHU = New Players £100m (+ very wealthy city)

Robert (372) – Again with this mysterious and mystical £350 million.
Where does this number come from? Not just you, Robert. You're not the first to throw out some pretend number of 100s of millions.

Unless several of the match-going supporters come in here stating when they sit down they feel the Old Lady shivering, there is zero reason Goodison Park is a detriment to Red Bull relieving us from current ownership.

And, please, someone help me, that Everton Football Club plays at Goodison Park is a benefit for new owners. Not some problem to be overcome.

Ha, much as the perceived wisdom states that we Must Have a New Stadium.... perhaps you're right, Jimmy Flynn — Everton can get by just fine with an old outdated dilapidated antiquated relic of a stadium that still manages to get its safety certificate and still manages to bring in the money from an average matchday crowd of around 35,000 paying customers.

After all, they have done just that for the last god knows how many years, despite all the talk. We supposedly can't afford to buy the better players because we don't have a big enough stadium with plenty of corporate boxes. Yet, as soon as you talk about needing a 50,000-seater stadium with its increased income, and up pop the fans saying "We don't need that, we couldn't fill it."

I think you might be right: we have been in Goodison Park (largely unimproved) for a very long time. We are set to stay in Goodison Park a lot longer yet.

Won't happen; I can't see Blue Bill giving up his train set just yet...

Mick Davies 365,

Them cockneys and mancs on the Costa Concordia.
Are they the same cockneys and mancs that share the league between them for the last 20 years?

#374, the fans might think a new stadium is not required, but potential owners may not see it the same way, and will base any business case on a new stadium. Sure, they will consider a plan B (the shock!) of redevelopment, but they might conclude that the return on investment for that doesn't cut any ice, so their plan A becomes their only plan to make the purchase work.

● Would we fill a 55-60k stadium? I'd argue the differentiated pricing strategies that could be offered by a new stadium with a range of facilities would say Yes, we could.

● Could we sell 100 corporate boxes? Again, if priced correctly, yes. We currently charge around double the market rate due to having so few. A "neutral" company would go elsewhere, only a true Evertonian owning a business would use the current boxes at Goodison.

● Alternative uses of the stadium on non-matchdays (not competing with the Echo Arena); a range of F&B options around the ground, including broadening the pre- and post-match experience. (Someone else mentioned Brighton as an excellent example of this – they even bring in Real Ale from the locale of the visiting team for their bars!)

There's a multitude of other requirements from a new stadium I won't bore you with here but a revamped Goodison would struggle to accommodate.

All of the above assumes a suitable site can be found, and a compliant council for the permissions. Oh, and it also assumes any potential buyer can get past the ludicrous asking price and myriad other conditions the current squatters are demanding.

But, when you look at it, they really did set this club back decades with the Kings' Waterfront fiasco. The biggest irony of all is they would've had an asset worth the asking price they've put on it – and I don't think many fans would've begrudged them walking away with a profit (even if a great deal of public money would have been behind the value increase).

Here we go again people wanting new owners but only on their terms, at the end of the day no matter what you all say money talks and if RB put up the asking price EFC will be sold that’s guaranteed no matter what some of you think. WHU have a 99 year lease for Stratford with a down payment of £15 million backed up to £2 million per year rent which is an amazing deal all things considered but they also have to pay a windfall one off payment if the club is sold in the next 10 years so G&S are best sitting on this for 10 years as the then sale price will give them a massive return. If they sold now due to the debt on WHU (reported at £70 million, 2012) then the estimated return would be poor due to the large amount of debt and the wait to August 2016 which is when it is estimated they will start playing at Stratford, from a business perspective and looking at the short long terms yield G&S would be mad to sell early doors which would mean RB would have to offer silly money which means “other” clubs may become more attractive. QPR is one and already has ties with F1 and RB could easily re-brand them with very little fuss. Its comes down to how serious RB are and how much they want to write off in this deal, LFC is the best deal for the global brand but that would need £400 million + for the current owners to even consider, with that amount of money you can totally re-shape EFC on and off the field………………. Ask the question how much is your soul worth and all things considered you would probably sell up for success and a new stadium, but like me it would also lose something too, it’s a tricky one either way.

James Flynn (373). You question the £350 million figure. No-one has the exact numbers but figures have been rehearsed and discussed on TW for quite a while. I posted similarly to what follows last year.

Quite a few of us think that in April 2012 Bill effectively let the cat out of the bag towards the end of a Sky interview.

http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,,16477_7644397,00.html

If the link doesn’t work google, “Sky, Kenwright and Moyes”

When pressed as to the price and likely buyers for Everton, he set out two non-negotiable issues:

(1) Everton must be in the Champions’ League;
(2) Everton need a new ground.

He then said that the overdraft needs paying off, and added that the main shareholders need to be paid.

Therefore:

· £70m to pay off the overdraft (it may be less, I don’t have the up to date figure)
· £100m for the main shareholders (would Earl and co. walk away for much less?)
· £100m in transfer fees/wages for the manager to spend (which might even be insufficient to bring CL football given the accessibility to cash of our main rivals for the four CL spots)
· £200m for a stadium (perhaps even more now).

So, according to the person who would be the prime mover in any deal, someone needs to walk in the door ready to hand over £270m in cash immediately, and be prepared to guarantee another £200m.

Bill could have changed his mind of course, but the above suggests that £350m is far from mythical (it might even be on the light side).

Red Bull changes every club they have taken over from top to bottom including club colours, logo, name and history. I will stop being an Everton supporter if they would take over Everton, rename it Red Bull Liverpool and change the club colours to white and red. Mind you, they always - always! - change the name of the club they take over to "Red Bull [City Name]" as this is commercially far more interesting and they want to cut out all previous history. Mind you, they have changed the home kit of every - every! - football club they have taken over to white and red.

I visited Salzburg a few years ago and got talking with some Austria Salzburg fans. I cannot express enough how much I detest Red Bull's interest in football since then. People got banned from the stadium because they wore the old kit - the Austria Salzburg kit. Normal people, we're not talking hooligans here. Red Bull Salzburg targets the so called prawn sandwich brigade and actively discourages regular Joe's to visit matches.

If I wanted to support a winning team I would support Man City or so. I would love it if Everton was a regular in the Champions League and actually had a chance of winning silverware year in year out but first and foremost I support Everton, not some interchangable club with changing names and colours. Not a club that denies it has a history before the Red Bull takeover. Be very, very careful for what you wish for.

I don't think we need look at the Salzberg example too closely as they were a tiny club - it took 4 promotions for them to even approach the top flight (still in division 3). Everton are a completely different proposition.

Colours - all of Red Bull's branded team colours are predominantly blue. at least 60% blue, 35% white/silver, 1% yellow, 4% red - take a look at F1 team colours. Not that big of a jump to imagine our kits with those colour proportions.

The name 'Red Bull' can be spun a number of ways but perhaps that would be the toughest pill to swallow. I note occasionally RB or Torro Rosso being used but for a takeover of this size perhaps a new brand/product line could be created.
But a Red Bull culture clash in the middle of Walton? Entertaining matchday events with soft drinks being pushed everywhere you look? Could be tricky with the older folk (30 plus) but not so much youngsters who have been buying this drink for years.

For a company with their ambitions and aim to win Everton are an outstanding opportunity - everyone else is far more expensive and no-one else is as close to the CL as us. We have more profile in key markets (US) than most below us. It would take at least hundreds of millions to buy Liverpool and teams above us so I don't think price is a barrier. Everton could be branded and ready to start next season for well under £200 million as our owners are ready to take a reasonable offer and have been for years - lots more investment needed but we are already so close I could see us having a strong case.

Paradoxically after all these years of criticising Bill Kenwright it is probably him who will take the most convincing to sell. He is as averse to red as the rest of us

I for one could get used to Everton Red Bull with wings - it is an excellent winners brand. Just keep the red to no more than 4% coverage.

Thomas Lennon, Austria Salzburg played in the highest division at the time of takeover and won multiple league titles. Austria Salzburg was at the time of the take-over historically the third team in Austria. They played in the Uefa cup final of 1994, they won a couple of league titles in the nineties. After that, bad management made them a mid-table team with financial problems. To call them a tiny club is ridiculous. To claim that team colours are predominantely blue is equally ridiculous, please take a look at RB New York/Leipzig/Salzburg/Brasil/Ghana, all have the identical White/Red outfit. Red Bull has a clear strategy when they take over a club and to think they won't use that strategy if they take over Everton is very naive.

ps: Who's to say whether or not Red Bull would even keep Everton in our name at all!?

God forbid... they may even go for Red Bull Liverpool and drop the Everton altogether as worldwide commercially Liverpool as a city is more well known!

Please, No!!!

What worth is a compromise in this situation? Never going to happen let's be fair but what if we went as far as this? Our kit gets darker blue, with the red trim and white/silver included. We have a bloody great big Red Bull logo on the top as sponsors or on the back underneath the numbers as part of the branding. Goodison Park becomes the Red Bull Stadium, as to carry over the company name, meaning we can keep it as just Everton. A few glamorous signings into our existing team and we can possibly break the top 4 and look glamorous doing so.

There is one main reason why this will never happen. Who they will sign has been mentioned above, of course it is West Ham who they will look at. But Bill will never sell to a company who will change our identity like Red Bull would. Nothing to do with the pennies on the table, it is simply Bill would not leave his legacy at the club at Red Bull Everton. Therefore the bedsit man has more of a chance of owning us.

Chris if we oculd keep the shirt colour and the club name what difference would Red Bull be to any other sponsor/owner? FSG have slapped Warrior over everything. Etihad Emirates, and Allianz have their stadiums and their names on the kits. Red Bull would want to do the same, any investor would. If they're going to build us a new ground or take on our debt then stadium naming rights and shirt sponsorship is the least they'd want. If they could deliver on their promise for champions league I'd go for the deal as long as the name of the club or the colour of the shirt wasn't changed (although we have had various shades of blue on kits in the past before allied with different coloured socks and shorts). Perhaps we insist on keeping the home kit but allow them to do what they want with the away kit and training range.

Frankly, I'd despise us getting silverware almost immediately after being bought out, just by dint of us splashing out to completely change the team, bringing in high quality, high priced replacements all over the place. It wouldn't feel like "we" had won anything.

I'd much prefer gradual refreshening of the squad, a couple here one year, a couple the next. That way, those bought in the first wave would feel a bit more like "one of us" by the time the next couple were brought in.

Anyway, back to reality.

James Flynn @ 373

I've based my cost of a new stadium figure on what Arsenal payed for theirs when it was considerably cheaper to build a new stadium (theirs cost £390m) so I've deducted a bit because land is cheaper up here.

Now that I've stated where my figure comes from, let's hear how you would build one at a cheaper cost (it's Monday morning, back in work and I could do with a good laugh).

"Unless several of the match-going supporters come in here stating when they sit down they feel the Old Lady shivering, there is zero reason Goodison Park is a detriment to Red Bull relieving us from current ownership."

There's thousands who would disagree with the above statement, particularly those who refuse to pay good money to sit behind large posts and only watch half the game. I took my 6 year old nephew in the upper Bullens and couldn't believe the crush at half time for a pie and drink, I ended up getting him out of there. My living room has more space to move around than the upper Bullens 'Concourse'.

I do apologise Eric I had looked at this website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV_Austria_Salzburg - it appears that this is the breakaway 'traditional' Salzberg club similar to FC United of Manchester!

Looking at the correct website http://www.austria-salzburg.at/en/history/foundation-and-promotion/ I see that they won 3 titles (all in the 90's during one 'hot streak') since inception in 1933 but were on the brink of relegation when taken over.

Articles also indicate the Red Bull do choose to have more respect to history in some cases when they take over - the New York Metros is supposed to be an example - though ironically that is a team with many name changes and a short history.

In terms of team colours I was referring to their branding and not what they may have chosen for the kit of other teams. F1 is blue, but in terms of football they have added red to the kit of other takeovers (most seem to have been white and remain predominantly white though it is difficult to find any trace of the club in Brasil before they took over). Only in the case of Austria has there been a radical change and that was from violet to red.

I would suggest that for a team playing on predominantly blue they will have a rethink along the lines of their F1 team if they are really keen to buy. The Premiership is a different proposition to the minor leagues they currently have teams in.

Thomas @384, I believe you're thinking of RB Leipzig, not Salzburg.

I can't see this happening to be honest & I do struggle to imagine us being "re-branded" by Red Bull. It does have its benefits if this was to happen... but for what price? The thought of a huge company like Red Bull taking over & attempting to steamroller our tradition & history makes me feel quite ill!!

The flipside is it could take us to the next level that a lot of fans have dreamt about for years. I believe as others do that they will attempt to takeover the Happy Hammers. This has wrecked my head if it is at all true!

I would support Robert on a new stadium. There is little point in building something that retains our tiny footprint and shocking concourses.

We need to build to compete, at least equal our competitors' scope for improvement rather than build in restrictions.

I suspect Evertonians will be like other clubs that have been taken over.
Individually they will reach a point when the team they have supported from the year dot does not resemble what they've become.
Wimbledon, Man Utd etc.
We have a proud history and heritage. When that goes through whatever, people will not recognise the Club and turn away.

John Keating @ 399

I would like to believe that what you have said would be the case and we could show these corporate so and so's what we feel.

Having said that, there's not many of us showing much backbone with the state of our nation and the way it's become in the past 30 years, we're all pretty much apathetic about everything.

I think this is the way it will go for EFC and its loyal hordes, we'll have an utterly sterile crowd that probably will just clap when a goal is scored (all the proper fans will be elsewhere doing something else), they'll be paying a fortune for the privilege and wearing a blue/red/white strip. The only drinks served are Vodka/RedBull or watered down RedBull for the kids.

Doom! Doom! Doom! We're all Doomed!!!

Infiniti Red Bull Liverpool playing at the Red Bull Rampage Arena, managed by Ralf Rangnick and playing in dark blue with purple and yellow trim.

Please make this come true.

If we were to be bought out by them (unlikely) I wouldn't care if they plastered their logos everywhere and called the stadium what they wanted (It would still be Goodison to me)

They could have their logo on our shirts, it's just a sponsor and start selling vodka red bulls instead of piss warm Chang and I wouldn't bat an eye lid.

Change our name and colour of our shirt and the new owners will be looking for a new person to take over my season ticket (which no doubt will double/triple in price to pay for their initial takeover costs)

I have done some digging on RB and whilst they spend a lot of money on brand marketing this comes from cleared funds. They have a strict policy of spending whilst in the black with very little borrowing/overdraft facility just €100k In 2012 with an estimated return of €306M profit in 2012. This is smart business some would say but others would say it isn’t as that money could be used to boaster their asset worth but again this is subjective as I’m sure the marketing of the product lends itself to the 15% growth seen from 2011.

What this tells me is I find it unlikely they would use two years profits to fund the purchases of LFC, unless they chose to finance which is against past practise. If 2013 figures are on target and it’s not easy to see as they tend not to publicise their profits then if they were serious in buying an EPL club I would imagine they would look initially at spending €100/200M maximum.

Watch this space……….

Alan Williams @ 411

Alan as I said my 372 post, It's WHU if they're looking to save money and be in London as the original post has indicated.

But if Leyton Orient get in the Olympic Stadium it could well be them. And they play in red...

Hi Rob, look at my post 381. G&S can only sell the club if they pay a large windfall on profit and looking at the debt and the asking price then the return for G&S is much better if they hold on to the club. Selling before they move to Stratford isn’t on the cards, if RB were very cheeky then maybe they could buy in to WHU without being the owner or do a deal in naming rights but as they are WHU fans then they may well hang around but this is football. It all boils down to how much RB wish to write off, WHU have 3 years until they move to Stratford once they are there the asking price goes up so ask yourself why sell now?

Nick #414 sadly Leyton Orient aren't Tory Party fund contributors like Karren Brady is, a Tory Mayor and Tory party give a party aligned funder a handout of a tax payer funded asset, whoever would have thought that could or would happen.

If we ever build a new stadium I can guarantee that it won't cost anywhere near £350-million, maybe $350 million.

Not sure whether I'd prefer Blue Bill or Red Bull.

True Gavin, but the tenants are voted in by a cross party board called the london legacy development corporation and I can't see Barry Hearn giving up without a fight.

Not only would WH be encroaching on LO territory which is against FA rules but also they could well be playing in the same division when the announcement is made binding.

Ground share me thinks.

Well it probably won't happen, cos Bill will want to much money, but, if it did, I don't think they could get away with calling us Red Bull Everton! Yes, I know if they own the club, they can do what they want but, with clever marketing, there is a way round this.

What about bringing out a new type of Red Bull and calling it 'Blue Bull'. Slogan: It gives you balls!!! Perfect! They can then build a stadium or upgrade ours and call it the Blue Bull Stadium, blue lights all around it and we still play in our famous blue shirts!!!! Everyone happy. Well maybe.....

They won't be interested in naming it Red Bull Everton. The name "Everton" has no commercial value to them. It would be Red Bull Liverpool or perhaps Red Bull England/Britain. They certainly won't consider bringing out a new type of drink, that is the other way around. They want to use a club as marketing tool for their exisiting brands. They don't want to use their brand as a marketing tool for an exisiting club.

Jack Berry @ 417

"If we ever build a new stadium I can guarantee that it won't cost anywhere near £350-million, maybe $350 million."

I've said why I think it will cost £350m in my 372 post, now it's time for you to explain why you're so sure it will cost less.

Just saying it will cost less and then walking away is hollow, back yourself up!

Thomas Lennon, I do appreciate your post but I really think you are being very naive in thinking that they will respect our history. They have no reason to do so. They want to pull out the marketing machine.

Robert Collins, aren't building costs dropping the last years with the global crisis and all? Serious question, I am not sure about it. Could imagine both the prices of raw material as the fees of construction companies took a dive.

Tom Hughes will know the approximate costs for a new stadium.

Maybe he can provide the latest figures?

Allan Williams @ 415

Hello Allan,

My logic was good, but I have to bow to your superior knowledge on this one.

I do believe however that these so called big spending billionaires aren't so big spending when it comes to spending many hundreds of millions on new stadiums, there was better clubs to buy than Citeh (there's one just down the road plays in blue & white, won much more and better fans, but an old tin shed stadium).

These Arabs were looking to save a few bob when the bought Citeh.

Erik Dolls @ 427

Erik, most people/companies have to borrow to build, the cost of borrowing is still sky high.

Things like steel are getting cheaper because China no longer requires so much of it, because their economy has slowed down. Borrowing rates more than make up for it though.

I'm on the 'no' side of this debate (Erik's posts pretty well echo mine). That said, I'm of an age where I have seen Everton win Championships - and I'm not sure I have the moral right to deny our younger fans that pleasure if a corporate takeover/rebranding etc etc is the only way it can be achieved.

But it won't be with me. Hell will freeze over before I'd support Red Bull Everton/Red Bull Liverpool/Red Bull UK or any team other than Everton. Although it would give a batsqueak of pleasure to see the RS reaction if we became Red Bull Liverpool and immediately spent £100 million on players.....

Brent #391

My thoughts exactly.

Just as well this is all hypothetical bollocks.

A lot of excitement over something that may or may not happen; if it does it will be Red Bull’s decision and if it doesn’t it will still be Red Bull’s decision and nothing whatsoever to do with Bill Kenwright — who has admirably demonstrated to everyone who isn’t a complete fuckwit that, when it comes to Everton and its ability to deliver a payday, he can’t be trusted. He sold us out to Tesco and Knowsley Council when he allowed Everton to be used as an enabler and he was happy to sell to a fraudster who met the asking price but was discovered at the point it was always going to be discovered, when he couldn’t complete the deal as he was, well, a fraud living in a bedsit!

Personally I think it will be a London club as, if you are to believe the press, Red Bull want a club as little more than a device to promote their brand through an assault on the Champions League which in itself raises a few questions on ownership as they’re clearly already the owners of Red Bull Salzburg, no matter what name they play under in Europe, and it’s not like in F1 where you can simply utilise the same name in a different language, as in Toro Rosso.

They’ll also have to comply with FFP and it will be difficult to indulge in parent company sponsorship masquerading as something else, as some feel is practiced at Man City and elsewhere, when you’re essentially a one-trick pony — albeit a £3.3bn a year pony —but never underestimate people’s ingenuity!

Whilst I could see the suitability of a London club for Red Bull’s purposes, London Red Bulls etc, you never know, it might be Everton. Don’t be misled by claims of in excess of £300m for a stadium, only five years ago Everton were happy to pay the £78m total cost of the Kirkby stadium, the £52m from Tesco was a scam as eventually confirmed by Tesco, Knowsley Council and the Government; it never actually existed so with inflation a local council now willing to work with the owners, let’s say £100m as they only want it to look good on the TV, a few batman lights and you’re there aren’t you?

What could’ve possibly happened if Red Bull had sent in some auditors last week to conduct diligence, what would they have found? Misappropriation of funds? No. Massive debt? No. A business operating way beyond its means like Portsmouth? No. You may not like what Kenwright’s board has done over the years, you may not like him or his bullshit but the model for mediocrity that they’ve used, supplemented by sales of assets, has them sitting there with little debt. Yes, few assets save players and no trophies, granted... but certainly a cost-effective platform on which to build something which needs investment to achieve its potential. Investment that the current “owners” haven’t been willing to provide which, yes, has resulted in other problems such as the signing of commercial contracts offering poor returns but nothing insurmountable for the right company.

All they need do is make the right offer and that would be it — and if you think Mateschitz would lose a minute's sleep over the thought of the fans, think again; but, like I said, I’d be amazed if it wasn’t a London club.

The real problem, and it’s a problem you can do little about, isn’t what Kenwright has done; the real problem has always been who he needs to sell it to. That will be his legacy and it will mean Everton changing forever. My advice: get used to it and don't worry about something you have no control over.

Brent @ 391

Agreed, I don't want to be another 'Citeh' or 'Chelski' or 'Rot Stier' (Red Bull) for that matter.

I want the silverware but I don't want to be them!

"Uncle Bill won't sell to anyone. He will make sure any potential buyer is right for the club."

Mr Chairman, if offered enough money, would sell to a joint bid from Robert Mugabe and The Boston Strangler.

@ Harold Matthews, 351.

Perfect. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Robert, the prior estimates for a new stadium have been nowhere near that figure so I would imagine, if one ever does get built, it will be closer to those figures than the £390M it took to build Arsenal's. Liverpool is not London; as much as I love it over London, it never will be... and, if I'm honest, I would never want it to be either.

Jack Berry @ 510 — "the prior estimates for a new stadium have been nowhere near that figure........"

If you're referring to 'Destination Kirkby' and Panto Bill's shameful attempt to move us to an MFI flatpack of a stadium way out there, then yes a stadium can be built more cheaply than £350M, but it would be like moving into a bottom-of-the-range "Barratt House" with no corner left uncut.

I you want to build a proper stadium, just like Arsenal have; with all the corporate and fan facilities, you are going to have to pay up, just like Arsenal.

The cost of borrowing is still sky high, the price of steel has come down because of the state of the global economy, but the cost of borrowing more than makes up for any price drop in materials and EFC would have to borrow to build. The £350M is probably about right... or maybe slightly conservative if we want a proper stadium.

It has absolutely nothing to do with what I want Robert. If find it highly unlikely that Red Bull or anyone else for that matter is about to buy Everton, for me that means that the current bunch of loonies are going to still be in charge. In turn this means any stadium we build will not cost 350-million pounds. You mention the cost of borrowing being sky high so are you including the cost of paying back borrowed money in this estimation? In the end it has nothing to do with what you and I want (I think we both want the same thing for this club), what matters is what those who own this club want, cringe at the thought!

I've seen a lot of strange comments on here, only got a short way down and felt I had to put something. So Red Bull - Firstly their cans are blue and silver - only the small bull is red. The club sells Coca-Cola - a bottle with a red label, though no-one (amongst the first lot of comments) appear to be bothered by that, should we only be selling pepsi? (well no because that tastes disgusting) I saw someone fall down the stairs at Goodison and cut themsleves, should they be thrown out of the ground because the blood was red? No of course not - look round the ground next time you are there, there's red everywhere, so what?? Ok if they change the name or the full colour of the kit to include "Red" then there's a problem, but that's not something they always do (twice out of the 5 or 6 things they own - I think).

By all means be against them because you feel they might change the clubs identity, but not because they have a small red bull image on their cans..

Another read on Red Bull

http://supportersnotcustomers.com/2013/06/11/against-red-bull-football/

http://afootballreport.com/post/60366624109/how-far-will-the-red-bull-revolution-go-by

If they kept the name and kit the same but built a new stadium and called it the Red Bull arena and put the red bull logo as the shirt sponsor I would be more than happy. I could not stomach being called Red Bull Everton and play in white tops though. It will be interesting to see if this story has any real basis, but I think it is clear we need to keep our history and identity intact for anything to happen.

We are not for sale..... Simple!

A work colleague of mine whose step-brother works for Saatchi and Saatchi said Red Bull are after Southampton.

It's Sunderland they are Sponsoring.....