Mirror insistent Baines WILL leave

They can have him, his heads turned and he's been crap OR we must keep him, we've no one to replace him and hes our only world class player and his assists and goals are irreplaceable.

DISCUSS...

Its pretty obvious he is going to be leaving. The complete turn around in the way Martinez talks about him is the clearest sign. just after the window shut he was saying "he will be shown how important he is, and will be rewarded" now when asked about contract its "there are no plans for contract talks at this time".

For a player so valued and going into his final year this seems very odd, something has obviously gone on behind the scenes and I suspect he informed the club that he wants to leave in January.

Considering his age and form and the fact he has one year left anything close to 15 million should be accepted in Jan if as expected he has said he wants to leave.

I've been thinking of Bainsey in the past tense all season and the focus must now be on who replaces him.

I'd go for the BOGOF option ie. Jolian Lescott.' Roberto's Way' has no room for marauding full-backs and our old boy could fill the immediate vacancy with aplomb with the longer-term ( next season?) aim of taking over Distin's central position.

Forget all the emotional crap surrounding how he left us - now it's time for him to return.

Will be a big loss. But every significant departure creates a significant opportunity. Baines leaves, replace him with maybe Oviedo or another cheaper younger left back. Can even spend up to 8 million and it will be a better investment for the future. Its the way for a club of our means, sell to buy/grow.

Have to get the best price possible for him though 16 million would represent a good deal. And I don't begrudge him the chance to try at a club with realistic champions league aspirations. He has been a great player for the club, acted thoroughly professionally so far

EFC will always be a selling club while kenwright is in charge

If he were to go in January as opposed to the summer then the message is crystal clear - we're no interested in achieving anything this season. There is literally no reason to sell Baines in January, none whatsoever. And there's no foundation either to this tired old story other than the painful cliche that we "have to sell". And given the volume of Everton to MU stories that appear with extraordinary regularity in The MIrror it's clear that these stories are planted. Rodwell, remember, was going to MU as reported by The Mirror every single Sunday for at least two years.

The now biannual cull of our best players, harbinged on by no-mark 'journos' who were directed away from true investigative journalism over a century ago.

Well, let's keep this simple: the top six, seven or even eight clubs are worth £1 billion plus... We are worth nothing except for the cream of our players on the pitch. The problem of NO MONEY will persist till we actively demand the removal of the parasitic Doctor Who-like creatures that have 'taken over' our club.

To be honest Andy, we would need to finish and automatically qualify for the champions league to make the sort of profit we could make by shifting Baines on. If a decent bid is on the table and the chances of a top 4 finish are receding then it makes sense to grab the cash and help Bobby fund his evolution of the squad

Agree with Andy, to a point. The Mirror and Mail seem to be obsessed with seeing Baines move to Man Utd. We must remember that their chief football correspondents (Holt and Currie respectively) are massive Man Utd fans and are more PR people, for United, than journalists.

On the other hand, £16m isn't too shabby for a 29-year-old left-back whose form has dipped this season both for club and country. I watched him last night and it's not the same Bainesy of recent years, is it? He won't go past players, he's too hesitant, his corners and free kicks (bar the WHU game) have become stale and predictable. I think he's become big-headed and has probably decided he wants to go.

I'm not begrudging him his move, I just want us to get the last penny out of them and get a younger, hungrier replacement. I'll be sorry to see Bainesy go but everyone goes sooner or later and we just get on with it.

No Lescott please. He is finished, don't go back, go forward please.

99.99% he is leaving.
I just hope so much that Man united (with afro man as a squad player) finish just - behind us - outside the European qualification places. That will be a glorious end to the season.

I'm not saying he won't go but it should be in the summer. If I recall correctly, Roberto has already stated he won't be going anywhere in January as well. To sell before the end of the season would leave expectations for the remainder of the season in a complete mess – not to mention seriously weaken a defense that has got its act together and stopped conceding sloppy goals.

Oviedo isn't good enough and Premier League attackers would exploit that. We are 1 point off 4th place and frankly, had a brilliant start. To take another step back from this position would be shooting ourselves in the foot again. There's a time to sell and in the middle of the season without a hope in hell of replacing him is stupid.

I'm not totally convinced Man Utd would want him on current form. He has been our stand-out player for the last few years but anything over £16M is decent value for a 29-year-old left back who has been out of sorts for quite a while now.

If he's not going to sign a new contract then we may as well shift him as quickly as possible as his value will drop and he's been far from irreplaceable this season, West Ham aside. On the other hand, if he ousts Cole for the England spot (less likely after last night) and has a stormer in the summer, then he may be worth a few quid more.

If he goes – and I think he will – one option would be to play Distin at left-back and bring Stones in at centre-half at least until the Summer.

If as many say it is common knowledge that Baines is leaving in January, and that it his expressed wish to do so, then Martinez should be playing his replacement (possibly Oviedo) now and letting Baines stew in the reserves. No point in waiting until he goes especially as many have commented he is playing crap as his mind seems to be elsewhere.

No loss the way he's playing - dreadful for england last night.

What is this modern phenomena of players turning gash overnight?

Barry – maybe it has something to do with the modern phenomena of supporters being extremely fickle.

Patrick 363

That sounds like a very depressing scenario to me. I would like to think Martinez has known Baines is leaving for some time now and he's spent months scouting for Baines's replacement.

I don't actually think he'll go. I think all the speculation and talk, even by team mates he should be able to trust, has screwed him up. If he's playing poorly, perhaps the new set-up hasn't been to his liking?

Pienaar and Mirallas look out of sorts too, but he looked poor for England too. Why not give him a rest after the derby and let John Stones or Bryan Oviedo have a chance? Then, if the press are proven right, at least we'll have a smooth transition.

I think he might go to three at the back Mark. It might be Jags, Stones, Distin/Alcaraz, with Coleman pushing further up the field. The Chileans showed yesterday that if you have players who understand, and can play, the system then it's perfectly workable.

I think in the future we will play a 3-2-4-1 system but we need the players who can play in that system.

I've been thinking 3-5-2 formation would be the best way to play for a while now, Colin. Like you say, Coleman would be further forward where most effective, and the same goes for Baines/Oviedo. Also, Alcaraz and Stones are good ball playing CBs. Lukaku and Mirallas could form a partnership up front alongside each other with Barkley playing behind. All sounds good in theory, would it work though?

He has one eye at OT judging by this useless performances of late.

que sera ......

When Baines scored his 1st goal against West Ham, did you notice how nasty he was to our crowd... Just reminds me when Rooney scored goals for us... Not happy scoring! Get me out of this club!!!

Andy Parsons (#317) – "There is literally no reason to sell Baines in January, none whatsoever" – erm, yes there is: said left back wants to go – that seems like a pretty good reason to me.

Jon Ferguson (#371) – "Barry – maybe it has something to do with the modern phenomena of supporters being extremely fickle" – how silly...

He's knocking around with the United boys in the England camp. Stones is a wonderful talent but is still some way from being physically strong enough for a Premier League CB spot.

So, yet again, a story is ran in one of the Liverpool fan papers about how an Everton player is "linked" to another club and as soon as you know it there begins a groundswell of opinion that Baines must be sold. Don't you just love the pigs, sorry, media!

Agree with Karl #316
The buck stops with Kenwright
Spineless twat should come out and say WE ARE NOT SELLING BAINES TO ANYONE.

No, No, No — do not sell Baines as this will create two problems; (a) trying to replace the best left back in the country; and (b) effectively loosing the understanding between the players on the left side of the pitch and midfield who have created plenty of assists and goals.

At the moment, Baines's form is down but how many players go through a bad patch and come through it? It seems a lot of people want to get rid of players who go through bad spells of form and that to me means the whole team at times would be sold.

For Everton to qualify for Europe next year, we need our best players and not replace people with other players who may not turn out as good as we hope.

As we all are aware, the biggest stumbling block in money matters is BK and any money that is available in January must go towards a quality midfielder. One more comment not being a mind reader I have not seen or heard of Baines asking for a transfer – only the crap in the media, whose agenda seems to just to support the chosen few.

No surprises here. Ross Barclay will be next, and any other decent player that comes through. We will continue to be Man United's feeder club as long as Bill 'Man U' Kenwright is at the helm.

Good job Martinez has more backbone than some of you lot posting comments on here. In the summer when Baines wanted to go he was told no, by Martinez. And to his absolute credit he accepted that like a professional should. I totally expect Roberto to do likewise in January if the issue were to arise again, especially given that he is on record as saying that he doesn't want the squad disrupted in that window.

For Martinez to mess around with the defensive formation while he's still trying to implement a new passing style - and with a horrific defense record at Wigan in his immediate past - would be too much too soon.

As for #403, just because a player wants to go doesn't mean the club has to capitulate. If it was right for Everton, then fine, but I don't think anyone making the decisions will consider it to be right in January.

Some of you lot do the clubs PR for them. I remember when we sold Arteta and this place was full of people claiming he was crap. Now he's skippering a club playing CL football and sitting at the top of the PL.

"The Mirror" says, so it must be true... Just like the front page pics of squaddies "torturing" captives. These sewer dwelling journos should be culled: too many papers, too few Newsworthy items.

If Baines is desperate to leave, we should encourage a bidding war. If the "speculation" is correct, moneybags Citeh are interested and that would really piss on Ginger twat's bunfight if he were to be shipped out to the "Middle-Eastlands".

It has been rumoured before that Baines is not the most confident of players, none of this is helping and he is not helping himself.

If he is not happy with the way the new guy has him playing... a seemingly more withdrawn less attacking role, then it is good for everybody, he gets to go, he may later regret it but it's too late then.

As for Us, we may also regret it but will be 16M better off as a sop to our hurt feelings.

For whatever reason(s) I think that is more likely than unlikely he will go.

If he stays, will we get the ' Old Baines ' back??

Will Roberto even want the Old Baines back??

Where, if anywhere, does ' bombing forward and playing slick one-two's ' fit in the new order??

Having one of the best attacking left backs in Europe is no good if you don't play to his strengths. At present there seems to be a bit of the complete opposite to the old regime where Baines and Pienaar were the only option and became targeted by other teams to nullify their threat. Now it doesn't seem used at all? The weird thing is, as a pairing, Bainaar played exactly what Bobby advocates. Fast slick passing, Sin Miedo bla bla.

As I ave said before, if it makes business sense to let him go, and if it truly is what he desires then cash in and move on. But I miss the rampaging bursts, not just down the left, but When Kev & Coleman link up effectively too. With both flanks firing there cant be too many better sides in the league. Perhaps giving Del boy a stint on the right, sticking Kev in the whole and alternating the central mids between Barry, Macarthy, Osman and Barkley depending on the opposition would give us more attacking verve?

Back in the day, it used to be that footballers, as my Grandfather told me, caught the same trams to the game that the fans did and they were paid similar wages and people used to envy them for getting paid to 'play' games and not work. Then of course it was accepted that as players have short 'working lives' and only a small minority continue in football after their 'playing days' are over, that it was not unreasonable for players to be better rewarded to set themselves up for later life.

Since then, however, it has got completely out of control and even extremely mediocre players in the top leagues are paid 'film star' wages, totally out of proportion to their talent entertainment value or usefulness, exceeding by MILLIONS the wages that a normal working man could possibly earn in his lifetime. They have become mercenaries going to the highest bidder for the biggest bucks and 'Club' loyalty for virtually all of them is an alien concept.

So it amuses me when supporters still delude themselves about players' attitudes and ambitions, thinking they are still those that applied back in the '40s and '50s when supporters and players shared the same trams. Such is the case with Baines just as it was with previous Everton players like Rooney, Rodwell, Lescott etc. and other teams' players over recent years. We can't turn back the clocks but we can stop the naive gullibility that so many supporters routinely and wishfully express.

Erm Andy Parsons (#505) — you asked for reasons and so I gave you a pretty good one. So shift the goalposts, why don't you, and make it now a make-or-break question of relative powers behind the scenes and will he or won't he?

And actually you have to be pretty dumb to hold on to a player who wants out — as we (to our cost) have found out thus far this season, with what have been said left back's poor shifts (for the most part), leagues below his high bar...

And that is because.... erm.... well, erm .... hang on... this shouldn't be hard... yep — he's pissed off coz he didn't get his summer walk down the East Lancs — but he will get it in the New Year.

And guess what is in said left back's crimbo wish-list and New Year resolutions?

"And actually you have to be pretty dumb to hold on to a player who wants out"...

Really? Suarez and Rooney apparently contradict that theory.

Like I said before, I'm not in the slightest bit surprised to read some people on here criticising his performances this season although I don't care if I'm alone in saying that I don't think he's done anything wrong or played with any less desire than anyone else in an Everton shirt. Like I said, this scenario played itself out when Arteta left and people slagged his effort and performances off.

And anyone who thinks Roberto will get £16M to spend on new players is as deluded as that lot over the other side of Stanley Park.

Let's wait and see what happens in January because I'm absolutely convinced that Roberto will be keeping hold of Baines. Whether the MU-loving media say otherwise and whether Evertonians on here convince themselves that we'll be better off without the best left back in the country.

Andy (#588) — I completely agree with your comments and I hope that other supporters realise there is no way that you improve the team if you just keep selling players because the media keeps saying Everton are just a selling club.

Supporters talk about using transfer money to buy new players but with supposed £17mill from Fellaini and the way BK conducts transfers, come midnight Jan 31st we will still be wondering if any new players are coming in — even if Baines is sold.

Roberto Martinez is the manager who has already stated that he does not want to sell but bring in players in January; If Baines does not want to stay, let him make the statement and stop everyone speculating.

We as supporters want European football and the only way to do this is to keep your best players and bring in players to improve in positions that need it. It does not make sense to sell your best player and just replace him with someone who may or may not be as good.

It is an old saying... but, if a player wants to go, it is difficult to stop them these days. Stubbs said Baines wanted to go and got slated for it but it is now looking a possibility. Not by the papertalk but by his own body language and the fact that he has not denied it publicly. I think he will move on so it may as well be January.

If all this is true, between now and any move, Martinez (who must already know) should give his alternatives a few games, be it Stones, Luke Garbutt (getting rave reviews in the Championship – like Coleman did) or Distin moving. Whatever, try the alternatives before he goes.

ps: Going to Man Utd hasn't exactly helped Fellaini become a "world star", has it?

James Royston — some good ideas... but Luke Garbutt's loan deal at Colchester Utd has just been extended again, into the New Year.

Oh, and Colchester Utd play in League One — not the Championship.

Fantastic player & has been top class for us since around 2009, but on balance we will have had his best years.

Difficult to keep on being that overlapping full back as you move into your 30's, even though I think he is intelligent & can adapt. But the cold fact is you can do less as you get older. I personally think hes got another couple of years at the level hes at now before age creeps in.

If he wants off then take the cash, get as much as we can & lets get a good replacement in whos under 25.

The only problem in purchasing to replace a player of Baines's calibre (besides the fee to purchase someone) is the wage structure at Everton.

The transfer fee for the type of replacement Everton require will be quite high but I think BK will be reluctant to alter the wage structure, so this means we will get a future prospect or use someone already at the club. This will not improve our push for Europe unless the supporters are willing to wait for a couple more seasons.

Sorry about the Colchester slip, But I had read somewhere recently that championship clubs were trying to take him on loan later this year, including Blackpool Re; the Coleman reference who achieved all that was needed there. Though under a different manager. Just a thought about possible options that was all. We have to be realistic Que Sera...

We need to accept that all the "Good Players" sold wanted to go at the time. Fellaini. Arteta, Lescott, Rodwell and Rooney. There is no point keeping a player if he wants to go – it unsettles the rest of the team... and this is what is happening to Everton now.

Baines made no secret in the summer he would like to play for Manchester United; maybe he regrets now not doing the same as Fellaini, we will never know. I thought he was just poor at the club but he was terrible in the International. They should get as much as they can – or, if Baines does not want to leave, he should make a statement.

My understanding of the contract issue is that it is linked to the wages of Barry and Lukaka, but we can't go all through January as we did in the summer or we'll end up knocked out of the cup.

Time for LB to part ways with EFC.
If £16M is what we can get then I'm more interested in where that's going than anything else.

Lots of games between now and January to play. Nothing new in this story, come back after xmas.

I agree with your second sentence, Ross Kerry.

If Baines is going, I would add that I will in addition be interested to see how much of the (supposed) surplus from August also gets made available to the manager come January.

Hope there's truth in the Nick Powell rumours. I doubt Man Utd would include him as he looks quite the prospect but £16M plus Powell would do for me.

If Baines goes, we'll sign Guardado.

"..it unsettles the rest of the team... and this is what is happening to Everton now"

Really, I'd love to know what factual evidence you have for making that statement.

"Baines made no secret in the summer he would like to play for Manchester United"
Again, really? He said nothing. Just like last summer when Ferguson tried to sign him and was knocked back. By Moyes.

Baines never stated anything then and had his best season, so the conclusions being jumped to here are quite staggering.

50 posts and only one single mention of our new left back, Bryan Oviedo, 5 years younger than Baines, already an established international, lots of upside and before anyone asks why haven't we seen more of him the answer is simple(baines). He will be a fine replacement, 15 mill banked, 10 mill Will Hughes, Garbutt recalled, happy days!

It never ceases to amaze me that some supporters believe al this paper talk as if it has been spouted to them first hand by the player, Martinez and Moyes.

You are so scared about it happening you just adopt the ultra defensive position of slagging the player as past his best. Just grow some and see what happens.

You never want to see your best payers sold, but a happened when Rooney left, the Club is bigger than any one player, and other players step up and surprise you.

I don’t think Money has anything to do with it. If Martinez wanted to match what Man Utd are offering, he could, in fact he said he would reward him.

Martinez inherited one of the most attacking full backs in the world and has completely negated his threat by making him stay home and play Pass the Parcel with Jagielka and Distin.

Baines gained international recognition through creating chances at the other end, earning more assists than many of Europe’s top playmakers. He is the most talented player Martinez has worked with and he ain’t doing a very good job of it.

I can’t believe people think this wonderful talent won’t be such a loss...

I'm wondering if Moyes will get cold feet on this one now.

He's already getting a bit of a bashing for his last shopping trip to Goodison, and given that Evra is still a top player, I'm not sure many Utd fans will think £16m is money well spent.

Baines' set-piece delivery is invaluable for us - but he's hardly an up-grade on RVP and Rooney from dead-ball situations.

I don't want him to go, no way. But perhaps we can engineer something with Chelsea in a deal for Lukaku?

Glad to see someone has noticed that Baines's lack of attacking play may be the Manager wanting him in a more defensive manner covering the two centre-backs passing the ball back and forward to each other then passing forward to the opposition causing a potential breakaway.

Darren,

If that idea was true Baines would have been free as a bird with England the other night instead he was (let's be generous) ineffective!

Personally I think he's carrying an injury he is slow on the turn and is avoiding contact all "protecting a strain" stuff, he has been absolutely skinned recently as a consequence.

If however he has "gone" in his head re the impending transfer window he is in for a helluva shock when he moves to a CL club.

I think it is ridiculous that our most creative player at present should be our left back. I appreciate that Baines and Coleman, our left and right backs, are supposed to go forward but the fact that one of our back four is our most creative outlet seems to be played down by most people. We all seem to be more concerned with losing him than with the fact that he is doing the job of our midfield and strikers at present.

For me, it wouldn't be the end of the world if we were to sell him. If the money raised helped to add creativity and goals in our midfield and upfront then I would be happy with that. Oviedo, while not world class, is an adequate replacement, both as a left back and in his style of play, so we wouldn't be under pressure to have to spend cash replacing Baines.

Sell one player, replace him with another from within the squad, and use the cash to add a couple of quality players. While easier said than done in practice, I don't see what is wrong with the idea in principle. Yes, Baines has been a great servant to the club, but if his sale improves us overall then go for it.

Let's be honest, Oviedo and Garbutt aren't fit to lace Baines's boots let alone replace him. If he does go then we need to look for a top class replacement who will fit in at GP.

I am more concerned about the general situation where the whole team seem off colour with an apparent deterioration in our famous team spirit. I know we are near the top but we have ridden our luck in most games and have only played well for short periods in some games and very poorly in others.

Baines has a right to go, if he wants to win things. He has given Everton enough in all his time here.

My question is with the new TV money, how are we still having to sell our best players? I understand we would sell him this January so we don't lose out on the money. But we should be in a position to offer him a contract that makes him want to stay.

Again we should be looking at the chairman, again he hardly gets a mention.

I feel sorry for him. Had he stayed with us he'd have gone down as one of our great players. As it is, he'll just be a came and went. I don't think he'll be special to Manchester United supporters.

I became a Toffee after meeting our greatest ever player in Margaret Wharton's kitchen in Lower Bebington, Dixie must have been fifty something at the time with his pub up in Chester. He was fund-raising with her for a Catholic Orphanage in Birkenhead. I saw him several times there and became blue!

Are you reading this, Leighton? Cos if so, our band MICE TAKE THE ELEVATOR are light of a guitarist (due to him taking a trip to heaven). Stay and enjoy some lasting respect!!!

I would like to ask a question — If Baines is sold and we purchase other players or player for replacement in January, as it is more than likely that the surplus from the Fellaini transfer will have disappeared down the black hole, who will be sold to replace Lukaku for next season?

I agree that Ovideo and Garbutt can't touch Baines and that if we allowed Baines to go during the season it sticks a pin in any attempt to actually achieve something this year. Yet another year...

And this comment - "You are so scared about it happening you just adopt the ultra defensive position of slagging the player as past his best" is absolutely spot on. (#706)

As for it not being the end of the world, the message it sends to the rest of the squad is that if you have any ambition, Goodison Park isn't the place for you. That would be fatal if you ask me.

I think it will depend on who Martinez brings in as to whether it's a good move for us. I'm kind of interested in what type of players Martinez wants to bring in when he has a bit of cash available.

He might be able to tempt Emerson Boyce.

Everton have had the best years out of Baines as they may have had with Fellaini who seems to be struggling at Man Utd just now. It would seem that Bainsey's head is elsewhere although he is still a top player.

The question seems to be who will meet Everton's valuation but, whatever the fee, it should be more than enough to strengthen the squad.

However, buying ''promising'' youngsters may not be the way to go as Martinez and his predecessor Moyes seem reluctant to give them fair playing time.

There may not be much to choose from come January so one would hope that RM has his feelers out now for the best of what may be available. I, for one am glad Bainsey is not selected for England tomorrow and would have preferred Jags to have been left out also.