Everton table bid for Stoke's Jones

I like it, always thought he'd under performed, he's very similar to Lukaku perhaps not quite as good, in other news reliable sources on twitter are reporting Barkley AND Baines have signed new contracts, if true that is great.

I like him as a player but he appears to have baggage.

Brett Angel springs to mind. I hope I'm wrong.

Fuck me, no.

I do not believe a word of this, therefore do not need to say oh holy shit what a fucking awful signing that would be

New deals, yes please.

Kenwyne Jones....we are really into bargain bucket pay half buy twice stuff.

About as far removed from a "Martinez type" player that you could possibly find.

File under: What a load of s.....

File under: what in the name of f . . . . . .?!!!!!!!!!!!!???

As Jamie says above . . End of

Mirror reckons Jones is going on strike till Stoke talk to Everton.

Also read something that made me feel ill. Mark Hughes putting in a £5m bid for 23yr old wonder kid Aron Johannsson, the Icelandic hot shot who plays for AZ and the USA. Deadly clinical with both feet, this improving striker, selected and coached by Klinsmann is surely worth £10m plus. Come on Everton. Get the lad. Tim Howard. Say something.

Last season Swansea pulled out of Jones deal because he demanded more than £50k a week.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.........................Is that laughing copper from Blackpool fair working for the Mirror

The more I think about the possibility of this happening the less I like it - next season our forward line will be either Kone or Ken wyne-Jones don't do it Roberto.

Could be a link through our Trinidadian coach Dennis Laurence who would have played with him in the T&T national side.

The guy is an absolute beast of a man Link

Well that's the 3rd striker we've been 'linked' with in as many days. File under 'lazy sub-editor needs to fill blank space' Next we'll be linked with that Jelevic geezer from Hull

Doesn't Kenwyne's strike rate rivals Jelavic's?

I was actually trying to think about any potential PL strikers who we could afford who would be a productive player for us. I'm figuring this would need to be somebody that would be a candidate to start up front next season, and I really couldn't think of anybody, at least anybody who a club would be willing to sell to us.

Harold Mathews, Johannson does look a player (and why Hughes is suddenly into US National team players I don't know). He's a much more natural goal scorer than Altidore, but I worry about Eredivisie players these days. The last few that came to the PL didn't really pan out (although Rat Boy did hail from Ajax). He'd be one for the future, but I don't think he's quite ready physically.

Yeah Chris. Stoke have also got the USA giant Shea who came on late and caused us a lot of bother a little while back. As for Johannsson. He's six feet tall and getting stronger. He's also very skilful.

Couldn't Jones' tweet be about him going on strike to force the move. Doesn't necessarily mean there has been no approach.

He used to be a real handful for defenders but I don't know if he ever delivered enough or whether any of that physical dynamism remains. Is £2 million a lot of money for a seasoned premier league campaigner to bolster the squad? I just hope, if the rumour is true, that he is intended to be a support act rather than the headliner.

Was a great player, briefly for a a couple of years. But never seemed to live up this potential on a consistent basis. I would be amazed if this was the plan to provide even a short term back up to Lukaku.

Chris Wilson - you're right, there's not a lot of quality that would be available out there among PL clubs.

The only possibles I can think of who might have the right qualities are Ba and Long. I also heard somewhere that Rickie Lambert might be moved on but he's the wrong side of 30.

I'm surprised Defoe didn't try and secure a move to a PL club, he's always good for a few goals.

So that really only leaves us with Jones who surely doesn't fit the bill. Or maybe Roberto fancies working with Hugo Rodallega again?

That's it, I'm out of ideas.

Makes that lad Jelavic at Hull look like reasonable cover.

Surely Roberto will do his shopping on the continent?

Or perhaps he's just happy with having Mirallas to cover the forward role now McGeady has come in?

... And Hibbert as 3rd choice striker.

I know Brek Shea. I am an American Evertonian and always like us to grab Yanks if they're available. Would have loved to have picked up Bradley, grab Dempsey or Donovan on loan, but alas...not to be. As for Brek Shea causing us a lot of problems in the Stoke game. IIIIIIIII'm not sure I can agree with that entirely-fluffed the one good chance there, but I don't recall much else. But he does have potential.

As for a forward to get-I honestly don't know who would help us out. We need someone who can occupy the central defenders like Lukaku can with size or movement, and open up channels for Ross, KM, etc. Does Valencia have anybody interesting? I thought we were linked with one of their forwards a while back. They always seem to be even more financially screwed than us.

Strange suggestion I know, but what about Holt? I actually didn't know he played a bit for my hometown team. His strike rate before Wigan seems ok but not sure if RM rates him with us. This is totally a tongue in cheek suggestion.

If it were down to me, I would try to bring in a very young striker. Unproven I know, but we need to look at the problem 2 fold. The money we save now might seem not worth it but the gamble of buying a big name striker might not pay for itself either, and a shorter lifespan at our club than a youngster who might grow into the position. Batsy seemed ok if not for his reputation. If we can nick him for 5 or less, I would totally try. But the same can be said of other players. I'm happy to wait till official news come. Anyone under 25 is a great add imo. Let's not forget, we still have Kone (30) on the treatment table.

I'd take him for 2mill

I'd take him for £1 mil and have him behind Lukaku and this Belgian kid (fingers crossed we get him).

If Jones comes in as the only striker signing, then it is beyond a joke and Kenwright is pocketing money again.

I think we should be moving for Ba on a permanent deal. He seems to be the ideal replacement for Lukaku. He should be affordable if what other managers are supposedly bidding for him and I can't see why Chelsea would loan him to Arsenal as they battle for the top? We could offer him the main man role which he became accustomed to at Newcastle as well as the realistic chance of European football next year... surely a better offer than bench-warming for the rest of the season?

Yes Chris, I do have a soft spot for Brek Shea. He may be big, fast and skilful but he also has a fine fighting spirit. Totally wasted on the wing, I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to make a striker out of him.

Bradley going from Roma to Toronto was a shock. He likens it to Yaya Toure moving to City from Barcelona because he wanted to be part of something new but I should think Yaya was more interested in the £200k a week.

Kenwyne Jones? Really?

He's absolutely horrible.

Worst rumour of the year so far

Joe - 285 - you can't say that. No evidence that Kenright has ever "pocketed" any money from Everton. It may be a throwaway remark to reflect that the money received is not re-spent on transfers, but that is not the same as Bill pocketing the money.

There really is no mystery to where the money goes...it goes on wages,which is why the club runs up a loss most years.

Re Kenwyne Jones, no thank you!

Jones looked pretty useful as a prospect with Sunderland, but has proved an underachiever IMHO

Not sure this is a great move for us, but equally unsure that this truly emanates from GP either.

The summer proved that Roberto does do some of the expected (Kone, Robles, Alcaraz & McCarthy plus his backroom team) but also does the unexpected (Lukaku, Barry & Deulofeu)

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe that he will raise my eyebrows rather than lower my expectations

We are knocking on the door of CL qualification............ he is a mid table player at best.

We have a fantastic squad, let's keep the standard up, and moving in an upward direction.

NO WAY

Crap player.

Surely this can't be true and it smacks of Walter Smith days. We need someone who is going to start next season and that's not Jones.

For me, we need a younger mobile striker like maybe Jay Rodriguez of Southampton. We surely have to aim higher than this.

Didn't the RS want to pay ten million for him at one point?

I find it hard to believe Martinez has anything like a 10m plus budget if we are bidding 1m for Jones. Doesn't add up and more than likely the budget is much smaller and where can you find a decent striker for that kind of money. Billy liar was laughing all the way to the bank last transfer window

I mentioned when we were in for Barry that I didn't particularly like him as a player but he could turn out to be our new Peter Reid so here goes....Kenwyne Jones the new Kevin Campbell?

I cant see this coming off at all, infact its probably nothing more than paper talk going into overdrive yet again because for whatever reason Jones has gone on strike at Stoke.

If it is true then the question yet again needs asking 'where has all the money gone that we got during the summer?
Where is the remaining Fellaini money, the Anichebe money, getting the high wage Neville was on money, and what about the money we have just raked in from Hull for Jelavic??

If we are led to believe we are skint again, scraping around the bottom of the barrel then why?

For the record, Kenwyne Jones at 1 million would be a decent signing.
He uses his strength better than Lukaku although is not as good on the ground and wont get the goals Lukaku gets.
A battering ram type striker but for a team like ours who don't score enough from corners, or crosses, maybe thats not a bad thing to have.
While its nice to score beautiful footballing goals, we don't score enough from setpieces or crosses in the air since the talismanic Cahill or Fellaini left the club.

I was led to believe however that Martinez had at least 8 million to spend this month, thats without the Jelavic money recently coming in, so I am taking this latest gossip as newspaper fiction.

It's obviously we have no money to spend for one reason or another. Martinez said we couldn't let Jelavic go out on loan as without a transfer fee we couldn't replace him. So if Martinez or anyone associated with Everton is saying we have a £10M war chest, then there would appear to be some sort of contradiction there I guess.

Quite how we would have no money with the Fellaini sale, numerous other sales on previous seasons of top earning players and the extra TV money is a bit of a mystery...

Al Reddish @334

"Kenwyne Jones the new Kevin Campbell"

Alistair Campbell more like.

I'd rather get Anichebe back and that's saying something.

Kenwyne Jones is a player of great potential....and always will be.

I seem to remember Liverpool being interested in him a few seasons ago when he was at Sunderland. Just about that time Sunderland came to Goodison for a night match (if memory serves). He was useless, prompting chants of "Rafa, Rafa sign him up..., "

At last, the gap left by Brett Angell will be filled...

Have him in a heartbeat as long as his skull is screwed on correctly.

This lad can play he's a lot more than a target man and absolutely no surprise route one Pulis and Stoke didn't work out.

Clough built a team of champions rescuing talented square pegs in round holes for the monies quoted a whole lot of footballer there.

This is not a good move in my opinion I would rather we sign Shane Long or maybe even take a gamble on Jordan Rhodes £10 million is a lot I know but the goals don't change size and we are a team who create chances. I like Michu but he is currently injured as he can play upfront or behind a striker so would be competition/cover for both Lukaku and Barkley and being Spanish would feel right at home with Martinez as manager.

if we can have one strong, powerful striker, Lukaku style, and compliment that with a light on his feet poacher and positioner such as Javier Hernandez, I think that would be a winning combo, right now we are scoring cracking goals, but we are really missing a poacher who hovers up the smaller chances.

Saw that this morning and thought what the fuck, Jelavic out and this no mark from Stoke in - may as well stay as we are!!

There has got to better front players available - what about Berbatov or even Long at WBA ... fuck it,,, Bell-Baggie at Tranmere looks more promising.

If the £1-2m market value is all that we can afford, then we are left with very little choice.

I'm certain any manager would like to look at £20m strikers, so it's no use getting worked up about who we sign. The same goes for OFM when we brought in the likes of Straqualursi, I'm sure his hands were tied.

If it works out, he's a genius, if it doesn't, we have lost a minimal amount for a P.L. signing. That's not to say any manager of Everton should be excused poor signings because we haven't paid a fortune in transfer fees.

There are available players who can make a difference if you are paying him £50k a week, so it's not all about the transfer fee.

McGeady & Jones (if he signs) will be on a very good wage here, otherwise they wouldn't have signed in the first place. One of my pet hates of the last regime was having sub's raking in fortunes for 5 minute appearances when we all know our financial position.

Just because they are not £10m or £15m transfers, it doesn't mean they should be allowed to sit on the bench taking millions out of the club each season.

Something like 75% of our entire turnover is spent on player wages, so we need to squeeze every last bit of value from our senior squad.

I like Hernandez as well but don't want to do business with that club as they always swing it to suit themselves like when we couldn't play Howard against them.

I would love a new chairman with loads of money and the same love for our club that we have, but I agree with David Ellis no way does BK line his own pockets.

I quite wanted us to sign him a few years back as he looked fast, strong and able to bully defenders not unlike Lukaku. For £1m it seems like decent business but surely we have the money to afford someone a little more exciting? Hardly gonna have the likes of Arsenal and RS quaking in their boots. Maybe if we could get someone like Morata? Bill?

Kevin Tully @ 352

Kevin, with the money that the sales of Fallaini, Jelavic, Anichebe accrued we shouldn't be looking at £1m-£2m for a forward. If these reports are to believed I for one will be disappointed. Failing to turn up for the game with the RS, and being on Twatter at 3 minutes past midnight? Not what I'd expect from a pro footballer and his 13 goals since 2010 aren't that impressive either.
No thanks.

I can't even fathom why his name would crop up and then think "oh yeah that's not a bad idea"???!!!

Just seen Jones has scored 4 league goals in 2½ seasons — surely Vellios or Gueye could manage that and we can't get rid of them! I know £1M isn't a lot but when you include wages over say a 3-year deal, it all mounts up to a big heap of cash totally wasted.

Just stunned.

Hernandez is a total non-runner for me in the Martinez system. He likes to run in behind all the time; Martinez will surely be looking for someone in the Lukaku mould, big strong and able to hold the ball up.

Best thing is, he has supposedly gone on strike! He's not even playing........... only made 7 appearances all season!

Long is also out of contract in the summer and he is hardly prolific but ten times better than Jones and he is Irish so would settle in to our squad immediately.

You're preaching to the choir Ray, but we are in the financial position we are in, and we have to cut our cloth accordingly. Why we are looking at strikers for nominal fees is a discussion for another thread.

My point is, if we are paying a senior squad member millions a season, we should expect him to make a significant contribution - regardless of the transfer fee.

Any manager deserves a good shafting if they are wasting that much money in wages for a bench warmer.

If we sign Jones, I expect a return on the pitch when he gets his chance. It's the manager's call to give him a contract - so he shouldn't be excused if he's a dud because he hasn't cost a fortune in a transfer fee.

Regarding this particular player, I'm as underwhelmed as the majority on here.

RM said in December there would be no high profile signings in January, that he would be augmenting the playing staff with a couple of squad players.

Jelavic hasn't exactly come off the bench to be a match winner, he's come on to save Lukaku's legs. If we manage to sell him to Hull and replace one bench warmer we receive £6.5m for with one costing £1-2m. I say yes.

McGeady has replaced the hole in the squad left by Gibson. He's only here now because we effectively bought out the remainder of his contract otherwise he would not of appeared until June.

I don't really see Martinez doing much more, unless of course a player who is too good to refuse becomes quietly available.

No quality settled player wants to move in January.

RM said in December there would be no high profile signings in January, that he would be augmenting the playing staff with a couple of squad players.

Jelavic hasn't exactly come off the bench to be a match winner, he's come on to save Lukaku's legs. If we manage to sell him to Hull and replace one bench warmer we receive £6.5m for with one costing £1-2m. I say yes.

McGeady has replaced the hole in the squad left by Gibson. He's only here now because we effectively bought out the remainder of his contract otherwise he would not of appeared until June.

I don't really see Martinez doing much more, unless of course a player who is too good to refuse becomes quietly available.

No quality settled player wants to move in January.

Sorry, Kevin, I didn't mean it to sound like I was preaching to anyone.! Jones is not my idea of player fit to wear the shirt of the new resurgent Everton and I would be little disappointed in Martinez if we did bring in a potentially disruptive force. I was also under the impression (from Martinez) that out financial situation was not a problem. Quotes from Martinez,
""We are in a strong position financially. When you have to bring in money then it can be a real difficult position as you can be anxious and frustrated.

"The stability we have from a financial point of view allows us to make football decisions and this January window is important for us to make sure we kick on and finish stronger than we started."

Consequently I think we should be looking for a better player than Jones.

This seems too peculiar to not have some legs.
I think he's definitely talented. He was very good in his first year under Keane at Sunderland. Seems to lack one thing only and that's drive. Whether RM could instill that is open to debate.

Dimitar Berabatov.

We should bid for Holtby, who’s looking for first-team footy.

1. Barry was seen by some as a retro-step. He has been nothing short of a revelation. Trust Bobby if he wants Jones!

2. Jones offers a perfect plan B for if we’re chasing a game and passing sideways, and we’re shouting sling it in there!

Ray - A strong financial position to hold on to the better players not necessarily to buy new players. BK's smoke and mirrors, if Everton want new talent they have to sell established ones.

Patrick, I thought we'd sold some established ones. And I am aware that we bought McCarthy and are paying a percentage of Barry's huge salary. I also thought that we'd benefitted from the new ,improved Sky deal. You are right, though, if we give Coleman , Baines and Barkley better deals that will cost us.

If Indiana was named after the family dog then what the fuck was Kenwyne named after? Next doors nervous neutered bull?

Physically, he should be the complete powerhouse package. He’s strong, mobile and good in the air... but he doesn’t seem to know how to put those attributes to good use.

Dorothy definitely would have followed the yellow brick road much fucking quicker if she had this fella in tow as he’s basically her troika of trusty sidekicks all rolled into one. "..but he could show his prowess, be a lion not a mou-ess, if he only had the nerve...a heart...a brain".

Anyone remember the game where he went down and proceeded to writhe about on the ground like he’d just been gored by a Rhino, and then just lay there waiting for someone to give him his last rites? All after going into a fifty-fifty challenge with... Leon Osman!

If this move does come off, and Martinez can actually find a player buried somewhere deep within that badly barneted bulk, then he a really is ’a wonderful wiz’. Still, I guess if anyone can, Bobby can.

In the words of Henri Beloq: "Who knows Jones? In a thousand years, even you may be worth something.”

Shane. He showed plenty of drive when he chucked a big brick through Whelan's windscreen.

39 goals in six years... he has an even worse goal-scoring record than Jelavic who scored 76 times in the same period. We've already signed one non-scoring forward so let's not sign another if we have any real CL aspirations.

I actually think we are going to sign a few players unlike our prior manager RM knows we need strengthening if we are to keep this run going. Jones while not my cup of tea probably has more talent than big Vic and who knows what RM will be able to do. In the end I think it is about giving us options, for all we know RM could just see him as cover until the end of the season.

So, to sum it up, if all the rumours doing the rounds come true, this is what it would mean: A young exciting replacement for Lukaku lined up and waiting in Belgium to join next year when Lukaku goes back to Chelski. Cover for him brought in on the cheap (I believe that Martinez can bring the best out of any player). Jelly going out for top dollar, our best players kept on new longer contracts. McGeady brought in for extra creativity and to cover all the forward positions.

So, once again, we will be stronger – at little or no financial cost and looking good for the future. What is wrong with that?

And for the record, I'm getting so sick of the anti-Kenwright stuff. look at where we were when he came, then look at where we are now. Now compare that to Villa, Portsmouth, Newcastle, Sunderland, etc etc etc! Really, it's about time some of the brain dead people start to realise what we have is a great Chairman who loves our club, does the best he can. No way would I want some corrupt Russian or morally bankrupt Arab or know-nothing American running or club. COYB!

Geoff #409, you may be happy to overlook the lies, deceit and incompetence of BK now that we're sitting pretty but many aren't.

And as for "look at where we were when he came, then look at where we are now" — can you please post your comparison of the assets and debt BK inherited and the assets and debt that we have now so we can see just how much better off we are.

Geoff, Glad you're happy with Mr Wonderful - I'm not and many of us can see the writing on the wall and that the rob Peter to pay Paul policy will eventually catch up with the club. Sunderland brand new stadium, Newcastle a facility that makes Goodision look like a garden shed. Portsmouth was a club run by shady people doing shady deals - it could have happened to us but it doesn't appear that it has or would happen. I love the club, you love the club does that qualify us to run the damn thing?

Brain dead is a strong term to use about people that don't fully agree with your views and doesn't add anything to the debate in my opinion.

Newcastle: yeah, new stadium existed prior to Ashley's arrival, he was supposedly going to make Newcastle world beaters... and are they? No, they are still the biggest underachievers in the league.

Sunderland: yeah, New stadium, but they have spent tens of millions on crappy players and are once again at the bottom of the league.

Aston Villa: new owners and look at them... Boro... Forest... Pompey.

All I'm saying is that, whilst some continue to call for new owners, I've seen far too many new owners come in and do nothing to improve the club. The only two examples where any real success has been achieved are Chelski and Man City. And as I stated, one corrupt Russian and please check out those human rights records of the good people in charge at City.

Oh and then we got Cardiff playing in red! Would you accept playing in red? How about we get some idiot in who wants to change our name to the Bears or Wolves or whatever to market the club?

And as for the comparison with regards to debt and assets, well I'm not an expert but I would imagine that our current squad is worth ten times what the one he took over was. We are battling for champions league not championship.

And really do you think that Mr Kenwright is lining his own pockets? Because if you do then you would in my opinion be worthy of being called brain dead. which by the way is exactly what someone said on this forum. I was not calling you brain dead. I was saying that anyone who said that was brain dead. Hope that clarifies my position.

Surely in the position we are in, and with the supposed funds left from outgoings we should be looking at the likes of Morata from Real Madrid instead of a Stoke cast-off? Mind,this rumour came from the Mirror FFS, who have virtually sold off Baines to Man U twice already this season!

Oh and in addition to that, I would also like to say that I know Mr Kenwright is not perfect. I'm not saying that he is. I'm just saying he's preferable to many of the alternatives. I'm also saying that if the choice is someone like Vincent tan, then no ta.

And as far as I can tell, everyone seems to hate Bill because he's not as rich as an oil magnate. That's not his fault. He does the best that he can, and if he were a player, yeah maybe he would be more Tony Hibbert than Seamus Coleman but we love Tony Hibbert don't we?

And as I said, remember what the club was like when that red shite hamper salesman fucked off. We were a mess. We looking pretty good now in comparison. Just saying...

At first, I thought No...then I think it might be interesting. Physically, he's a beast...he has been quick, and he has scored goals. Maybe, he needs someone to wake up the sleeping giant... and may be that man is Roberto!

At £1 million or thereabouts, it might be worth a punt.

Dennis #280

Grant Holt??! What the actual fuck are you on? He's struggling at Wigan and about 5 stone overweight!

Kenwyne Jones looks like Lukaku. Maybe we can send him back to Chelski in the summer and Romelu can play with Jones on the back of his royal blue jersey.

Chris (425) I did say it was tongue in cheek suggestion. Seems like Jones' bid might have some weight. Do you want Lukaku or no? I can't distinguish between you sending him back and wanting him. I would think Jones is a 1m player. 2m most, which I think is what Stoke really wants.

Geoff Thompson, I'm with you on that.

I think BK is fully aware of the acute balancing act he is producing. He openly admits he doesn't have the cash to match others but yet he has to protect our club. Our history and heritage are our greatest assets and must never be comprised by corporate greed.

I agree with Geof.

"And as far as I can tell, everyone seems to hate Bill because he's not as rich as an oil magnate" No Geof #421, he's hated because of the lies deceit and incompetence of his time in charge,

As for "I would imagine that our current squad is worth ten times what the one he took over was" — the nett debt has grown, meaning the total owed less the assets owned (the players) has increased. So the team may be worth ten times more more, but the debt has increased greater than the asset value.

So just how are we better off again?

Oh, because "We are battling for Champions League not Championship" — well, that's because of Moyes and Martinez getting by on the bare bones of a squad as assets are being sold off to pay the banks, not because of Kenwright.

As Dave Whelan just stated on Sky Sports News: If you fancy a striker, you have to keep your mouth shut.

Geof Thompson, ToffeeWeb 2014 — "Really it's about time some of the brain dead people start to realise, what we have is a great Chairman who loves our club, does the best he can"

Earl Geofworth BiffingtonThompson, MP, London 1936 — "War? Relax, it won't happen, Churchill's full of shite!"

Geof Tompefonn the Unready, Hastings 1066 — "Don't worry, Harold, these Normans are shit-houses."

Geofkos Thompsoroki, Troy 1188 BC – "It's just a present ffs, drag it in!"

History is full of Geof Thompsons — uninformed blowhards who are absolutely 100% right.... until the moment they're wrong and the shit hits the fan (and they vanish).

Do you think that maybe RM is keeping his transfer stash till the Summer, when he would get better value? In the mean time maybe he thinks he can get more out of Kenwyn than Hughes/Pulis could and if he is available for £1 mill then why not? Although I've just seen a report that says Stoke are holding out for £3 mill.

The ghost of 'Poundland' Bill visits yet another January window... Guess Roberto has followed in OFM's footsteps in signing up to all the financial constraints at this time of the year.

It will never change, so no use us whinging!

Keep him obviously! I wonder if we could get Benteke in the summer if Lukaku deal doesn't happen. Similar qualities to Lukaku... anything under £15m would be a good deal imo.

Surely we can agree that BK at least gave us DM and better still RM?

Geof – There is nothing wrong with Evertonians wishing for new owners who can take the club forward. Even new owners who are not incurring £7m per season in interest charges alone would be a good start.

Don't confuse a good Everton team with a financially stable club – we still had to apply for bridging loans in the BVI this season, at a cost of millions.

Even though our board have not invested a penny, you could forgive them if we had a vision for the future. There isn't one I'm afraid. We are constantly firefighting, signing poor commercial deals, and selling assets as a result.

Do you remember the council having to buy the lease on Finch Farm?

Arsenal's owners had a vision and they will be reaping the benefit of their new stadium on the pitch for another 80 years.

I hope you are as keen on Bill & Co when Barkley is sold to Man Utd to ease the pressure from the banks.

You do know we were forced into selling Arteta to pay off bank loans don't you?

We don't want any new owner – just someone who can take us forward off the pitch, so we can compete with the likes of Liverpool or Arsenal.

ps: Please don't mention Portsmouth or Cardiff as some sort of yardstick to compare Everton with. We are one of the biggest clubs in the country, even with our current board sitting on their hands.

I am not a fan of Jones, when he first burst on the seen he had plenty to worry defenders, very good in the air, plenty of pace, could hold the ball up, but goal scoring is not his forte.

Sunderland on Boxing Day no plan B, sometimes you can play ugly and get a result.

For those of us who are old enough remember the nightmares about signing Andy Gray, who better to show a young inexperienced Graeme Sharp how to dominate defenders and look what happened!

Kenwright needs to get off his arse and put his hands in his pockets, the league has changed since the days of Andy Gray, WE NEED ABSOLUTE QUALITY!!!!

WHERE’S THE MONEY, BILL?????????

Geof Thompson @409

"(I believe that Martinez can bring the best out of any player)."

Geof, if Martinez couldn't get the best out of Jelavic, I can't see how he can get the best out of Jones, a player who has refused to play against the opposition whilst at TWO different clubs in order to force through a lucrative deal or, at least, get a game. Doesn't fill me with any sort of confidence.

Jones not coming is better news than Barkley and Baines signing!!

Eugene @432 that's genius!

I prefer the rumour about Shane Long. Would be good cover for Lukaku or act as a good foil to the Belgians powerful game.

Phil Walling - "It will never change, so no use us whinging!"

If we do whinge, it probably won't change anything.

However, if we don't whinge, it DEFINITELY won't change anything.

We have (all!) been lied to over and over and over again by fat-head.

That's enough for me to keep up regular (or at least intermittent) whinging until he sells up and fucks off.

Great rant, Eugene! Wow, really rattled some cages, didn't I? Look I stated my opinion... and, for the record, if you know what 'blowhard' means then surely you would realise that your rant is the behavior of a blowhard, not mine. My post was a reasoned cogent argument.

And as for debt, our club's debts, when Bill took over, were equivalent to twice our annual turnover, they are now equivalent to half our turnover. Our squad has improved beyond all recognition and our manager has stated that the club is in a very healthy financial position. Are you calling him a liar too?

When Bill took over, our club was a joke – relegation fodder – and nearly bankrupt. And now somehow, despite your assertions, we are now feared by most clubs on the pitch and so respected off the pitch that we are constantly being used as a model of how to succeed by other clubs... weird that, isn't it?

Stephen Doyle, (419)

Morata is no longer available neither is their fullback that OFM wants. They are down to a 20 man squad.

Good shout though. At the money they were talking we could afford him and he'd suit our playing style.

The rumours surrounding Finboggason and Batshuayi are growing.

Geof - Don't know if you've been taking any notice. but we haven't won a trophy for nearly 20 YEARS

As OFM and captain used to say, "A top half finish is good for a club like Everton."

Clearly, you are one of those who has been fooled into thinking we should be happy just to be in the Premier League.

Oh and for the record, every club in the league bar Arsenal is in debt. Chelsea posted losses of was it £50M; Man Utd in debt £650M. Liverpool nearly bankrupt before their new owners.

I know that not all is rosey in the Everton garden; I'm not blind to the mistakes that have been made, nor did I ever say that Bill Kenwright was perfect. Please read what I posted more carefully before slagging me off.

What I'm saying is that to accuse someone of robbing the club to line their own pockets, as someone did on this site, is just downright wrong! That was what the brain dead comment regarded, not fans wanting a new owner; as I said, please read more carefully. He has done his best, and no-one deserves the crap he gets.

Additionally, I said that new owners aren't always the answer. And I gave examples — what's wrong with that comment? The only owners I can think of who are decent people and are doing a good job are the Coates family at Stoke. If we can get good people to come and take over who love the club and are rich as fuck, then brilliant... but, until then, better Bill than many others I could name. It's not a crime to have a reasoned opinion is it?

Hopefully just a rumour without a grain of truth in it. Not worth getting worked up about.

I think it would be worth taking a chance on Danny Ings of Burnley as he looks like a good footballer as well though Burnley would probably not want to let him go on the cheap.

Geof - I'm partly with you mate.

I won't slag off Kenwright. He is doing his best. And I will slag off <1--the brain dead--> people on here for thinking he is not.

What these people never do is complain about the ones who do have money and never spend it rather than the one who has no money to spend in the first place.

Amazingly Woods and Earl, who own 42% of the club — one of whom sold his company for $100M and the other worth over $300M — and yet sit back and watch the value increase and never spend anything of their money. And get off scot free from the people on ToffeeWeb who only blame Kenwright. The sooner we wake up to the fact that these are the ones to moan about, the better.

What a load of twaddle. He's rubbish. End of story!

If Jones can't nail down a starting place at Stoke why the hell are we reportedly after him. I would far sooner have Jelavic than Jones.

Phil – but the public face of Everton FC is one Mr Bill Kenwright – although he has been unusually quiet in the last few months. I do agree that the whole of the board and its friends are responsible for our failures over the years and they should take the flak as well; I don't have an issue with BK the bloke – I have an issue with his running of Everton FC.

Thanks Phil. I was never trying to just blindly back Bill. I just think that a man who puts a second mortgage on his own home to get the club I love out of the shit deserves at least a modicum of respect. And anyone saying that he is dishonest and robbing us is being harsh indeed.

Geof #559, Kenwright is not responsible for the exponential increase in our turnover, Rupert Murdoch is!!

But at the same time that our turnover has nearly quadrupled, so has our total debt, and our nett debt has doubled because of the selling off of assets (players) to cover losses of £20m annually.

Geof / Eugene / Kevin . Entertaining stuff. Luv it.

Iain. I've been trying to remember his name. Thanks mate. Clinical Icelandic No9. If he's available there will be plenty after him.

Actually, with Martinez being so big on character and personality, it's hard to see him handing a contract to someone he hadn't personally vetted over a lengthy period. eg McCarthy and McGeady. I suppose Jones has a shout because he is a mate of our Trinidad coach Dennis Lawrence but Martinez strikes me as a man who likes to be sure.

There again. If he's after a striker he won't be broadcasting his interest and his due diligence will be conducted under the radar. We'll just have to wait and see.

Geof #471, how much do you think Kenwright's house was worth?

Must have been a hell of a lot if he was able to 'save' the Club using a second mortdgage from it.

Patrick #470

Never mind the as well - they should just take the flak on their own.

Do you honestly think BK could sell without them saying so? They are the ones pulling the purse strings. Bill just takes our frustration on their behalf.

Start moaning about them.

Whatever Phil - BK is just an innocent Blue who got mixed up with the wrong sort of financial people. You have your point of view and I have mine.

As he doesn't get any direct financial gain from Everton FC and nobody as far as we know has put a gun to his head to be the figurehead at Everton, he therefore must by default be as responsible as the other people on the board and therefore deserves to have his motives and methods questioned.

So, we're looking at pushing for a top 4 spot, and the talk is of us bringing in a striker who is 4th choice at his club, hmmmm..... That's if it's true though.

Geof, — Really, it's about time some of the brain dead people start to realise what we have is a great Chairman who loves our club

No matter how much you try to squirm out of it, that is a gratuitous insult clearly directed at all Evertonians who dare to question Kenwright's leadership of the club. While things are currently looking up, and Kenwright can be credited for that, too much water has flowed under the bridge in the opposite direction for many to simply ignore and forget going forward.

Questions remain about the management of the finances, which have been poured over year on year, and continually seem to obfuscate some hidden truth that (perhaps deliberately?) makes it a challenge to figure out what is really going on.

Michael, editorial team. No, it's not an insult aimed at all Evertonians. And I'm not trying to squirm out off anything. But if you allow people on this site to actually defame someone's character then you must therefore allow the converse argument. People on here actually infer dishonest behavior and I don't accept that.

Looking round the web, nearly choked when I saw this headline
'Everton look to boost Champions League chase with Stoke striker'

Okay Geof, I tried explaining it to you nicely. Read your post 409 again: it makes ZERO mention of anyone accusing Kenwright of malfeasance or embezzlement.

And for the record, I'm getting so sick of the anti-Kenwright stuff... Really, it's about time some of the brain dead people start to realise what we have is a great Chairman who loves our club, does the best he can....

As I said, that is a blanket insult to ALL who question Kenwright. As such it is not acceptable on here under the Conditions of Use.

I don't believe that there is a chance that Lukaku will be playing for us next season. Assuming this to be so the what do we need to replace Jelavic? Short-term or long? Youth or experience? Big or fast? There are pros and cons for each but given that January is usually a more risky and expensive window I would opt for a short-term option who can fit in our current style. Whether that is Jones or not, I can see why some might suggest it.

Other than a forward I think, if Heitinga goes, we need a defensive midfielder to cover for Barry. Same pros and cons apply but, in Barry's case, I see the player staying with us.

Other than that we don't need anyone. Too many comings and goings in January are often a sign of panic rather than considered improvement and can impact the team negatively.

On the subject of Kenwright: I like him. Although he did pull the legs of those kittens, didn't he?

Danny, very small chance actually. Torres scored and looked ok, so if they buy another striker like the papers are saying and Torres hit form, Lukaku might want to leave if he feels he's going to get a lot of bench time. I'm hoping for that scenario. Torres can score against anyone but us.

Agree on the need for DM cover, but I think that is regardless of where JH goes. I do wonder how much we're paying for Barry at the moment. People say we're not paying 120 or 100, but how much and will that conform to our wage structure?

Michael, I did not intend to insult all anti-Kenwright fans, just those who defame his character. But yeah, I have re-read my original post and can see that it could be read that way, so sorry for that. Sorry to any Evertonians who were offended.

It's the Daily Mirror, so it's a load of rubbish. Move along, nothing to see here.

Man City striker John Guidetti has joined Stoke on loan. Looks like Jones is deffo on his way out.

I don't believe I've ever posted much in favour of BK but you have to admit that for all his faults he has one outstanding talent. And that is the ability to appoint managers who are capable of making the very most of the pitiable resources made available to them. And thus cover his arse for much of his time in charge!

Phil, agree with you on that. I actually view much more favorably on BK but will admit that I've not followed much of his snafus prior to 2003. But regardless of where we stand, we need to question his judgement whenever we feel there's a better approach. Not to slag him, but really as part of being with the club. The worse thing one can do is to have no attachment and ignore.

I think Jones would be a decent buy at £1 million. I just think he has lost his way and Deffo has the potential to return to form under our team and manager.

Can I just point out that nothing is stopping Bill Kenwright from selling his personal shares for whatever price he chooses. To say that he can't do anything without the say so of the rest of the board is just ridiculous.

Jones would be a high profile signing in that it would be utterly and incomparably jaw dropping.

Kenwyne Jones would be a really bad transfer. Way past his best which was actually not all the good to begin with. This transfer would be very disheartening.

For me Martinez has something to prove in the transfer market. Kone is flop and made no impact on our season. Alcaraz seems injury prone and has made hardly any impact. The Barcelona boy looks promising but has not been involved enough and could really only be described as an exciting cameo. Even Lukaku is struggling, the goals dried up and I agree with Jose Mouhrino's opinion with every game he plays.

In fact in my opinion only James McCarthy has been a complete success. McCarthy is really saving Martinez in the transfer market.

I can't see Kenwyne Jones changing my opinion on Roberto's transfer dealings.

Dick, Martinez has already proved himself in the market, and I'm looking forward to seeing what he does next. I might be disappointed, but I don't think I will.

Deulofeu is injured Dick, Alcaraz looked very composed on the ball in the games he has played, and all strikers go through poor form.

You haven't changed your opinion on Martinez at all Dick, despite our good run of form.

No mention of Gareth Barry then Dick.....?

Indeed Mike. James McCarthy has been excellent, and keeps getting better but Barry has been probably the signing of the season so far. He passes better than anyone at the club, he is experienced, and he's hard too - you often see him leaving a foot in here and there which is what we've missed since the Mitchell brothers played together in central midfield.

Incidentally, if we do sign Jones. Imagine him playing together with Lukaku... They'll look like the Williams sisters.

I will be gutted if we sign him. In fact, I would rather keep Jelavic if this is the answer. There are some players that I just don't want at the club because of their ability and how they might affect the way we play and, from the moment they arrive, I'm counting down the days until they move on. Kenwyne Jones falls under that category unfortunately.

And Lukaku. Pretty much all the new faces are his call. If these aren't good signings, surely no manager will ever be good in Dick's eyes. And we're talking limited budget!

Mark (548) - now there's a thought, Venus and Serena up front terrorising the likes of Agger and the even uglier one, Skrtel

No idea whehter they'd be any good but they have both got thighs like Bob Latchford's

Can we maybe see what ACTUALLY HAPPENS before we start calling people "brain dead?" It's most likely hogwash anyways so chill out.

Most signings we don't hear about til they're done. Hopefully this will be the same

And whatever Jon Daley #394 is smoking, I'd love some too after reading most of these posts.

Good move for £2 million. No more

At the end of the day, I know it is only a rumour... Thing is, though, I'm fucking terrified at the idea of Jones joining us. 13 goals in four seasons isn't even worth the £1M being touted; on top of that you would have his wages, he's supposedly on £40k at Stoke.

As I say, I know it's only a rumour, but with Stoke just signing John Guidetti from Man City on loan, it means Jones is deffo on his way out, hopefully with us swerving him.

You must hand it to Kenwright, no one, absolutely no one, considered Martinez. It was a bolt from the blue and proof, if ever it was needed, that our chairman is an innovative thinker who has been wronged on this site for years.

@Dick Brady

Martinez's three loan signings have been fantastic. Barry is a rock in the midfield, Lukaku leads the line and will score plenty more before the end of the season. Deulofeu was unlucky to pick up an injury just as he was establishing himself in the starting lineup, but he will be back sbefore the end of the season and may sign for another year.

His permanent signings have been a bit less successful, although Alcaraz played well when he got his opportunity. Roberto believes in Kone and to be fair he had little opportunity to show what he could do before his injury. His attacking play looked good, but his confidence in front of goal just wasn't there. I'm really excited to see what McGeady can do once he is fully fit.

As well as his signings Martinez has got the best out of Coleman, Oviedo and Barkley and is also bringing John Stones into the first team.

I must admit that when I heard the Kenwyne Jones rumour I wasn't thrilled, but in many ways he would be a good signing if the price and wages are right. He does have many of the same attributes as Lukaku, and if the ideal big money replacement is not available right now I think Jones would be a useful addition. Then in the summer we can see where we are with Lukaku and spend our money on him or another first choice frontman. Jones would have to be at his best to prove he can cut it. If it doesn't work out we move him on!

I'm still hoping there is someone else in the frame, but if it has to be Jones I can live with that.

Think Jones could be worth a gamble for a million or two. Big, strong and mobile. He would be worth adding as our third-choice striker.

Everton is littered with signings that surprised, and big signings that flopped. So I would never write any one off, nor would I have overwhelming hope either.

A trip down memory lane.

Nice and cheap surprises:-

Gough, Martyn, Campbell, Barry, Power, Weir, Gray, Kilbane, Hutchison, Bent, Carsley (in the end), Cahill, Arteta, McBride, Donovan.

Stinking over-priced Flops:-

Wright, Bilic, Samways, Williamson, Nyarko, Mo Jo, AvdM, Collins, Barmby, Beattie, Amokachi, Bakayoko, S Hughes, Alexandersson, Bily, Bernie the Bolt....

Ian, I would rather save the £1M and what we would have to pay him in wages and use the cash in the summer.

Dick Brady

Another one for the archives there. How anyone can talk such consistent and unfathomable shite is beyond my comprehension.

"How anyone can talk such consistent and unfathomable shite is beyond my comprehension."

Phil, you have to remember who his hero is, and that's why he always feels the need to have a pop at Martinez.

Brian, does that mean that having let Jelavic go you would be happy to leave it with the striking cover we already have in the squad? I think Jones is a gamble that could pay-off and is affordable at the price we are bidding at.

Andy Crooks, your pat on the back for BK relies on two major assumptions. 1) Only RM could improve on what OFM had done, 2) Bill Kenwright had a large list of managers who were prepared to operate under his constraints. I am not knocking Bobby M, who is doing a great job; it is just that I am not yet convinced that BK is a genius at assessing coaching / managerial ability and all his apparent cock-ups have been expunged.

Si, he has scored 13 goals in 4 seasons, so if Lukaku was to get injured he would hardly fill me with confidence in finding the back of the net.He was slated by the Sunderland fans, calling him a lazy bastard and questioning his attitude. He moves to Stoke, and guess what, they question his attitude (supposedly he refused to join up with the Stoke squad against the shite) and call him a lazy bastard, saying he is the type of player who may have one good game in 10.

I would rather give Vellios a go, he couldn't do any worse.

Si, think Andy was being sarcastic.

Si, Jones actually went on strike and was fined 2 weeks wages.

Who do you think would have advised Bill to bring in Martinez? Last time he asked his manager who he should bring in.

Berbatov + Holtby = champions league (maybe). Jones is totally average, but fine to maintain our current lack of clinicalness. Berbatov is a Premier League great, unloved for a couple of years but world class all the same. Suited to our style, and maybe unable to attract one of the current top 4, he is a great foil for Lukaku.

Also, is there one player at the club who can do this?

Si "Kenwyne Jones has been fined two weeks' wages by Stoke City after texting manager Mark Hughes to say he was unavailable to play against Liverpool."

"The Trinidad and Tobago striker was hit with an £80,000 penalty after failing to report for Sunday's game."

Jones, who has six months left on his contract, contacted his manager on Saturday night to say he had no intention of turning up at the Britannia Stadium."

Bri - you're not a fan then... Never mind at least he isn't Grant Holt. Up the Villa.

Brian, the gamble would only pay-off if Bobby thinks he can get the best out of him. No doubt he hasn't delivered on what, at one time, seemed like prodigious talent; question is, is there a useful player in there somewhere? £1-2 million is peanuts in today's game, which does show how far his star has fallen, but also makes the gamble a bit more attractive.

Sorry Andy if I have maligned you. The post did seem out of character but there have been a lot of posts recently which want to give him full credit for things were we don't know if it is by luck or design.

Kevin Phillips is a free agent at the age of 40, that's how bad I think Jones is.

I've always been a big fan of his goal celebration. The problem is you don't see it often.

Si/Brian, could've sworn I saw him at the Britannia Stadium on Sunday.

Do you have any context to add to the Kenwyne Jones / Mark Hughes story? Maybe they have had a major falling out and Jones has had enough. Unprofessional behaviour but hardly a crime; people do resign over issues like I have postulated in other walks of life, but it is handled differently in football due to the money that changes hands with a players registration.

Now, if he does this on a regular basis then it is an indication of a likely character flaw. If this is the first time he has done it then maybe Hughes is the problem.

Si, I know it's a million or two, but then you have his wages. He's supposedly on £40k a week now, so even if he came to us on £30k a week, say on a 3 year deal, that's a fair few quid to waste on a 29 yr old who would have no sell on value IMO if it didn't work out.

link here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2538852/Kenwyne-Jones-fined-80-000-texting-boss-Mark-Hughes-say-wouldnt-play-against-Liverpool.html

Now you are just setting the scene to suit your argument Brian. To counter that I am going to suggest, if he is desperate to get away from Stoke we only offer him one year, or if we give him a three year deal and it doesn't work out immediately we sell him on (probably for all we have layed out on him) in the summer to a US team.

Gerard Deulofeu - Has made a handful of appearances and looked very exciting but I'm afraid a handful of appearances and three goals is hardly playing a major part in Everton's season as a whole. I really think Gerard Deulofeu could be wonderful and I question why Roberto has not used him more? Sadly his loan expires in a few months and we may never see the best of him.

Arouna Kone - He cost £6 million and has not even scored a debut Everton goal. I accept he's been very unlucky with an injury but you cannot claim he's been value for money so far. Maybe next season will be better for him but he'll be 31 then and the pressure will be on to justify that £6 million.

Antolin Alcaraz - Some people claim he's looked good in the 3 games he's played this season. But seriously 3 games??? And he's injured again??? And he turns 32 this year. I just don't see the point of this transfer. He needs to play some serious games in the second half of the season to impress me.

Romelu Lukaku - Scored for fun at the beginning of his Everton career but 1 goal in his last 8 games has taken the shine off. I loved Lukaku to begin with and still think he could turn it around but lately in a few games he has looked sluggish and coupled with not scoring I'm beginning to see why Chelsea don't seem to rate him. Prove me wrong Romelu get back to goalscoring ways. Jelavic scored loads of goals to begin with and then the goals dried up. Is Lukaku heading the same way?

Joel Robles - When he signed I was excited because I've never thought Tim Howard was as good as David Moyes seemed to rate him. But so far Robles has looked dodgy. I thought he might replace Howard but honestly all he's done is make Howard look good. Right now I fear any long term injury to Howard. Once again I hope Robles proves me wrong and eventually comes good but so far the £2 million we paid for this guy looks wasted.

James McCarthy - When he signed I was convinced we had overpaid for him but thankfully I am happy to admit I was completely wrong. McCarthy is a wonderful player and at 23 hopefully he'll only get better. Roberto's best signing by miles and possibly Everton's best signing since Sylvain Distin.

Gareth Barry - Another really good player and I will give some credit to Roberto Martinez. But lets be honest, its Gareth Barry. Who didn't know Gareth Barry was a good player? Its like visiting the Louvre and telling all your friends you discovered a really good painting called Mona Lisa. Big Surprise Gareth Barry is a good player. It's not exactly signing Seamus Coleman for £60,000 is it?

So yeah so far Roberto Martinez in the transfer market has been a mixed bag for me. McCarthy is better than I expected. Surprise surprise Barry is a good player. Deulofeu and Lukaku have looked exciting but still need to contribute more. Alcaraz, Robles and Kone have loads to prove.

That said Roberto is doing wonders with the players Moyes left him. Coleman is in the form of his life, Stones is coming along nicely, Oviedo is proving himself and Barkley is fulfilling his early promise. And Everton are riding high in the league. So no real complaints against Martinez.

Who knows maybe Kenwyn Jones will surprise me. I questioned Moyes when he signed Distin and was proved wrong.

I've only read one or two posts but anyone remember Marcus Bent and how he helped us get that 4th spot? If this guy could chip in with a few vital goals/assists I'd be more than happy. I also heard he might arrive in a straight swap for Johnny Heitinga and on a much lower wage.

So, If we could get him for the short term, and batshuayi for the long term then that could be a very astute bit of business. Get KJ scoring until May and then sell him to Hull or QPR for £10m.

Si, I just don't rate him, and it's not as if the evidence isn't there to back it up.

"Gareth Barry - Another really good player and I will give some credit to Roberto Martinez. But let's be honest, it's Gareth Barry. Who didn't know Gareth Barry was a good player? It's like visiting the Louvre and telling all your friends you discovered a really good painting called Mona Lisa. Big Surprise Gareth Barry is a good player. It's not exactly signing Seamus Coleman for £60,000 is it?"

You're mental Dick. I'm talking padded wall mental. Please do the honourable thing and hand yourself in to the authorities.

And there it is, Dick: "That said Roberto is doing wonders with the PLAYERS MOYES LEFT"

Brian, I would be very surprised if Martinez (or most manager's) would sign someone who would treat their club so appallingly without any reasonable justification.

If RM is interested in signing him (for the right money) then I would imagine there is another side to the whole thing that hasn't been revealed.

Putting aside the fact that he has a really poor scoring record, surely just the fact of his behaviour towards his employer , team mates and especially the fans should give us enough reason to steer well clear? Winning teams are strongly influenced by the character of the players, would you want to stake your season on someone with this attitude?

If he was on our books and behaved like this we would be ordering his taxi straight away-steer well clear in my opinion.

Si, at the end of the day we are vying for a top 4 spot and we should be aiming higher striker wise than Jones if we want to keep challenging.Surely we must have the money to maybe trigger the £7m release clause for Michy Batshuayi

Dick Brady/Brody, just as I was starting to like you..........

I think some people are underestimating just what a giant twat Mark Hughes is. Jones going on strike to spite Hughes is a major positive in my book. In fact sign him. Definitely sign him.

As Ray said Si, he's got form. Labelled a lazy bastard with an attitude problem by fans of Sunderland and Stoke.

Colin, I would like to think we have moved on from the days of signing players like Bent, Kilbane, etc. We are challenging for a top 4 spot FFS! we should be shopping for higher calibre players than Jones. With all the extra SKY money and the vast sums we've made on Fellaini, Anichebe, and Jelavic, Martinez should have a few bob to spend.

I think I said it on another thread but no one will know his character better than our coach Dennis Laurence who will have played with him for Trinidad and Tobago. And you do get pace and power for not much money...

Having said that, I'd like De Jong or Llorente who are both in the Everton #9 mould (like big Kenwyne) but also play for top international teams and have scored goals in top leagues.

Dick, if you look back to the thread when we signed Gareth Barry on loan, I think you'll find a lot of people thought he was shit, overpaid, would contribute nothing of worth. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I disagree about Lukaku, Deulofeu and Alcaraz. Alcaraz is coming back from injury and has been different class when he's played. He was rested for Norwich due to muscle fatigue, and I assume that is the club being careful with him given how long he's been out rather than anything new. There isn't any good reason to believe he won't be available for most of the remainder of the season.

Deulofeu was always going to take time to get acclimatised. Like Alcaraz he has given us something different to what we have, and like Alcaraz he is not costing us a large amount. When he has played he has won us points on his own, such as his goal at the Emirates. He will be back in a few weeks and we will have him fresh for the run in.

As for Lukaku, yes he isn't the finished article, and yes his goals have dried up, but he is still way better than Jelavic overall and we only paid £3M for him for the season. I can't think of many teams who would be able to cope with so many first team players out and still expect the rest of the lads to keep performing to the top of their ability. If Ross and Deulofeu were playing I'm sure Lukaku would probably have another half dozen goals by now.

The only disappointment has been Kone. Not because I think he's a bad player, but more that he hasn't been able to contribute anything at all due to injury....and injuries can happen to any player; I'm sure Kone wasn't known as a crock before Martinez bought him.

Overall I've been impressed by Martinez's work in the transfer market. We're getting players in on loan a world apart from those we used to get, we seem to be able to get good players in for low fees (eg, McGeady) and whenever we sell anyone we seem to get a very good price.

By the way, I think McGeady is going to be a spot on signing for us.

ps: Well said, Phil. My mate works for Stoke and he wouldn't even dare ask Hughes for the time off for his bro's stag do knowing he would say 'no'.

Brian, I gathered that you didn't rate him and you may well be right on that score. Then you start to jerry-rig other reasons not to sign him from hypothetical money down the drain to questionable temperament based on a situation about which we don't know the whole story. That's going just a bit too far, IMO.

I remember he was once considered to be up-and-coming and I am confident RM is not going to squander money on a player he can't have a positive impact on, or one he can't trust.

I thought Dick was just making a simple distinction between the players who RM has brought in and those he has inherited. Seemed very complementary to RM regarding the players that OFM did indeed leave him. However, the thing with Gareth Barry is that very few (if any) thought he was STILL as good as he has been for us.

Mark, players like Bent helped us to get into the top 4 and Kilbane didn't do too badly either. However, it does seem that Jones has attitude problems as well as not being the best player in the world.

Brian, I have already stated that Jones should only be considered as potentially a relatively cheap but useful squad plumper, and not the summit of our ambition in the striking department, and I have said the gamble would only pay-off if RM can get the best out of him.

I have qualified every point I have tried to make rather than assuming I know it all. I am just not as ready as some to write him off as a pointless signing at the price we supposedly want to pay for him.

Si, agreed. I think Barry is actually one of his best moves. Given his situation, who would even try?

Also Dick, I remember RM saying we might be able to get Deulofeu for another season, not sure about more than that. Not sure if it is in the loan contract. Plus they have Messi and Neymar, both still pretty much in their prime and still have many years ahead of them. I really doubt he wants to wait THAT long to get his starting shot. Especially given his few magical performances with us. Another 10 games in that form and he might be telling Barca he wants to leave. Who knows?

Si, it's called an opinion. if we got him for £1m it's a waste of money IMO, if we only had to pay him £10k a week, IMO it's a waste of wages. As I say Si, it's just my opinion.

He was fined 2 weeks wages for refusing to play (I agree, there is 2 sides to every story and Hughes is a tit) but it's not very professional refusing to play for his employer who is paying him £40 a week, if I refused to work for my employer I would probably find myself out of a job.

Also Si, it's more about Dick always having to somehow get Moyes into one of his posts, if you ever go on the live forum matchday you would see what I mean.

I agree Si, for the money being touted it probably shouldn't be a gamble, but it's just something about him.

Said it many times on other posts, Hernandez would be the ideal goal poacher for the style we are playing now.

He's a quality player and wasted on the bench by OFM.

Brian, fair enough but you are also questioning the manager's judgement on this one, if he is indeed keen to bring Jones to Everton. My suspicion is that he thinks he can get something worthwhile out of the player and, presumably , isn't too phased by whatever criticism has been voiced by Sunderland / Stoke fans or his recent spat with Hughes.

Dick may have mentioned OFM but, as the point he seemed to be making was that RM was getting more out of them than his predecessor did, I thought he deserved a 'free pass' for that one. ;)

From Jones's Wiki pages
"This followed news that Derby County wanted to sign Jones for around £5.5 million. Jones submitted a transfer request to Southampton on 24 August 2007 and went on "strike" until a move could be agreed, requesting not to be selected for the forthcoming league match against Stoke City."

So he's been on strike twice. Some fuckin' striker HE is.

Si, If Martinez does bring him in, as soon as Jones put the blue shirt on, he has my backing 100% no matter what my opinion is of him.

Brian, no doubt about that. IMWT.

Ray, you don't get striked out for 2 strikes. Bad pun I know. I don't think he'll get his 3rd strike with us though. Good work!

Fran Mitchell, what an exquisite touch from Berba. Definitely haven't seen an Everton player with that type of control for a very long time.

Personally, I don't think we're going to move very far forward with bargain strikers from the Britain. They all come with either attitude problems, fitness problems, weight problems or quality problems. I think the best place to be looking for bargain strikers is Italy. They only have three UCL spots these days which means a higher a forward with decent quality will be looking for a way out of fair few clubs by this point of the season.

I hope as you say Si, that Martinez wants him because feels he could get something out of him, and it's nothing to do with us being skint.

Now I know that injuries, loss of form, freak results, poor decisions etc could change our current league position but, at the moment, most people would have us in contention for 4th place with Liverpool and Manchester United. If we are serious about taking that spot, then Kenwyne Jones would be a massive backward step (and not in keeping with Martinez's aim of bringing in players with the right character).

Just look at Jones's scoring record over the last couple of years, his alleged strikes when wanting a transfer, critical of previous managers; just not good enough for a top team. How would a strike force of Lukaku and Jones compare (and compete) with Suarez and Sturridge or Rooney and Van Persie I just hope that is one of those rumours without substance...

Brian, whilst I believe getting paid ANYTHING to play football is a privilege, if Jones is on "£40 a week", I think not showing up for a game isn't the worst thing in the world. Perhaps he landed a weekend cashy fixing someone's shower head for £100.

Does this mean we have tapped Jones up, or are we allowed to talk to him about a move without contacting Stoke because he only has 6 months remaining on his contract.

I am not particularly happy if he is likely to spit his dummy if he doesn't get his way. A player shouldn't withdraw his labour if he gets a reasonable response to his request for a transfer, but if it is blocked he may have no other way to get both parties talking. Seems better to move relatively early in a transfer window rather than run down the remains of your contract when your heart isn't in it.

"£40 a week" Maybe Roman subconsciously that's all I thought he was worth.

Roman Sidey @ 655

"Definitely haven't seen an Everton player with that type of control for a very long time"

You don't remember Brett Angel? He could trap a ball further than you can kick it.

Have to agree with Mark @625

If we are looking at Jones then its down to a lack of funds there is no other explanation.

Mind you some of the suggestions of players we should sign are equally as scary. Berbatov for example. Christ I hope not. The incredible sulk who plays well about 2 games a season and walks around the pitch the rest of the time. Toxic and would hardly fit in with the work ethic our players have.

As for Brady/Broby, Martinez's signings have all been top class your assessment is way off but I suppose at least your consistent with that

Jones is certainly a complex character but he would have easily converted the headed chances Lukaku has been missing. John Terry reckons he is the best header of a ball in the Premier League.

Berbatov’s record since 2006:

06-07 – 23 goals in 49
07-08 – 23 goals in 52
08-09 – 14 goals in 43
09-10 – 12 goals in 43
10-11 – 21 goals in 42
11-12 – 9 goals in 21
12-13 – 15 goals in 35
13-14 – 5 goals in 16

Slightly better than 2 games a season. And better than anything that has came near a royal blues shirt since the 80s.

Some special players don’t need to run around at 100% to make that difference. Everton have plenty of good players, but no-one especial, no-one who can win a game with one touch, no-one who we will talk about in 15-25 years time (barkley may become one). Berbatov is available, is just 32 (he can continue til he’s 35-38 if he has the motivation). He deserves to be at a better team than Fulham, and he could actually be really suited to our play.

He’s 1000 x better than effing Jones for sure.

Si, I can see how my obtuse post could fit in with the revisionist view some Evertonians are taking of Kenwright.

I find it,frankly, astonishing that he is slippery enough to be lauded for being a true blue and appointing Roberto. If being a proper Evertonian and spotting the immense potential of Roberto Martinez are nearly enough then I would ask Barry Rathbone to re-mortgage his house and step forward.

Ray Roche, fortunately for me, my support for Everton began a few years after Angell's departure. Reading between the lines of his Wikipedia page, I can only assume that his only goal for us was less of a tap in and more of his "first touch like a tackle", as Nev so eloquently described it.

Andy, sorry if I'm being obtuse... so #574 was irony, sarcasm or what?

I thought your historic posts had been somewhat anti-Kenwright and was a little bemused – to say the least – by your volte face!

"If we are looking at Jones then it's down to a lack of funds there is no other explanation."

You may well be right in your assumption James (only time will tell), but as things stand it is only an assumption unless you know that there are no plans to move for more expensive players if they become available at a fair price.

A small outlay on Jones doesn't have to the sum total of our transfer activity. If it turns out that way then I think the Bill-bashing can get into full swing. Personally, I am hoping that Jones is only the starter in a potential 3 course meal (with a defensive midfielder and a young striking prospect being the next two courses).

Geof #471, can you explain what Kenwright did to 'save' the Club with the few hundred thousand Quid that he raised from his second mortgage?

You criticise Johnson for his running of the Club but Kenwright's track record is worse... At least Johnson put money into the Club to build a stand; Kenwright and his pal Green's mates have not put any of their own money in except for their purchase of shares.

Fran, I would have Berbatov in a heartbeat if I thought he was looking to go out with a bang giving his all for a worthy cause. Unfortunately, I just don't see that in a player who chose to go to Fulham when he must have had real interest from other clubs.

Either his wage demands were prohibitive for most suitors or he wanted the bright lights of London, so unless he has had a massive change of heart he ain't going to choose us.

The US, China, Qatar or maybe even Turkey will probably be more what he is looking for; plenty of money, better weather, and the chance to be a really big fish in a small pond and relive some of his past glory.

Geof Thompson #416,

What's wrong with changing their name to Hull City Tigers? They have been wearing the colors all these while. They have it on their emblem.

It made perfect sense for them to change their name, in the case of Hull. And their fans are not objecting that much because it makes sense.

Eric - According to Walter Smith, Agent Johnson woefully misled him about the club's finances. We spent a bunch of money and then had to sell all the players – it was a total disaster. He sold Ferguson behind the manager's back. Smith was so enraged he threatened to resign unless Johnson sold out. Fortunately Johnson did so.

By comparisons all three of Kenwright's managers have spoken very highly of Kenwright. And the two he appointed have both done very well for us.

You are right about the money though, and the main issue I have with BK is that he has not found a better equipped shareholder to take the club on.

David, if this version is what happened, I would view BK in much better light than before. I think many fans forget, Everton is like an investment to them. Be it passion for the club or pure monetary terms, it is their money. What I can only hope is that they have a vision to build the club into a powerhouse that aligns with their pockets. Of course, having a sugar daddy like Chelsea won't hurt, but there aren't many of those.

As for Jones, if it's £1M, probably a low risk play with limited budget. I don't disagree with the track record of Bubba, but like Si said, motivation. He's a mercenary, plain and simple. If we can get him cheap and motivated, I don't mind. Although I doubt Spurs will give us Holtby, I'd like us to try at least. Young and talented for sure.

David #686, so you think 2 managers speak highly of Kenwright because he's told them we're skint and they will have to sell their best players to pay the banks and they won't get any transfer funds for replacements?

And David, didn't Johnson have to sell up because he owned 2 football teams which was against the rules, nothing to do with his manager who he could have just accepted the resignation of.

Steve Pugh #534, the problem Kenwright has in selling his shares is who he has to pay back the money to that he borrowed to buy them.

Eric, we'll find out more about the money situation this Jan window, and perhaps the many more under RM. Lets see where the money we got from selling players went.

As for who BK pays back the loans to, I don't really get what you mean on that. What do you mean it's a problem? Why is it a problem who he pays it back to? Debt in general is bad and keeping a debt alive is a bad idea when you have physical assets. Only reason I can think of is that he feels the money he owes is worth more than the assets he has. Sounds totally counterproductive imo.

I don't know much about Johnson, but his wiki is not really reflecting well of him. Shadier character if you ask me. I don't see how his marketing of our club has to do with anything. If our beloved club is so bad compared to what they signed up for, how did OFM last that long? Let's see how long RM lasts, notwithstanding the likes of Barca coming for him.

Eric - I do not know Johnson's motives, I suspect Johnson sold out because he had run out of money, but the argument with Walter Smith (and the outcry/abuse from the fans) soured the situation for him, and certainly Smith said "its you or me" and Johnson was the one that left. He did own some shares in LFC but not sure if that would have compelled him to divest of Everton, I don't re-call it being a factor.

I think Kenwright, for all his many faults, is good at direct man management - which is why his immediate subordinates speak highly of him, despite him/us being skint and having to sell top players to re-fresh the squad. He was patient with Moyes when he had terrible second full season. He does not meddle in team selection or player signings. He has not hired a director of football to compete with the manager. He has been frank about the financial situation (I believe).

Most Chairman at football clubs are terrible at man management, one of the reasons I believe we have outperformed those with similar revenue to ours (plus a bit of luck with the managers he has picked).

Dennis #691 debt is not a bad thing per se as long as it is serviceable. Many companies could not survive without borrowings, and many thrive because of it. However, if you don't have the finances available to compete in your chosen field you will struggle, and your borrowing will end up being more expensive, and you are susceptible to economic shocks and other unforeseen situations.

A couple of years ago Apple had more cash reserves than the US government, and didn't know what to do with it. A group of greedy shareholders wanted a bumper dividend payment, which Apple acceded to, but it borrowed the money to pay it. Why? Well, with its credit rating, it was cheaper to do that than use its current reserves (which were presumably earning interest).

David #692, that's a fair comment about BK. To his credit, he doesn't intefere with a managers direction once a budget is set. We could be in a worse position. However, I remain convinced that his primary objective is personal gain, hence his "investing" into the club when he really didn't have the funds, and the publicised valuation representing a huge personal return.

I think this rumor needs to be filed under the 'Newspapers need to make up stories Dept'.

I think the last trading window should tell us the papers don't really know half of what is up RMs sleeve.

Eric #690, that is true, but he can still sell them for the amount he borrowed, which was what, £30m. Or was that what the lot of them paid for the whole club. Either way Kenwright could sell his shares for a lot less than he is asking now and new blood on the board could put pressure on the others to either put up or sell up.

I think it was Jay Harris (apologies if it wasn't you Jay) pointed out that not long after BK borrowed the money to takeover, a sum of money was added to our debts and it was surprisingly for the same amount that BK borrowed to buy the club.

David #692, Johnson was forced to sell his shares as he owned 2 clubs, Everton and Tranmere and the football authorities considered that unacceptable. He still owns Tranmere.

Steve #698, I would think the person BK owes money to would not accept just the borrowed amount back, he would want a lot more, which is why BK has the problem. In the meantime the creditor has control over BK and by extension the Club.

Not touching this one

Hmm Brian. Does that make him a crook or a smart business man? Or was it just a coincidence? Guess we'll never know. Like the majority of fans, I am only interested in football matters and what goes on upstairs is stuff from another universe. Yes, this does help people get away with things but I don't intend to lose sleep over it. In seventeen months time I'll be 80 but I won't get there if I start worrying about what Bill and his mates are up to. Instead, I will dwell on Martinez and his new football philosophy and watch how he gradually builds a squad to be proud of. If he is happy with the way things are going then so am I.

Harold, this part of your post made my day: "In seventeen months time I'll be 80" It shows supporting Everton and all the stress that comes with it doesn't mean a short life span.

Also Harold, I'm loving this new era under Martinez, the man has put the smile back on my face, so my other half said.

Matt (694) true. I over generalized. However, what Eric said sounded iffy to me. Debts generally must be paid in one way or another, hence as you mentioned, serviceable. So it doesn't really matter who BK pays it to. And the example I gave where physical assets weighing less than the debt, it is an extreme example where one doesn't want to service his debts regardless of how serviceable it is. I would think we would agree that, at least based on Guardian, our debt is one of the most serviceable by the club itself regardless of standings.

Eric (748) yes, in fact all loansharks (including your mainstream banks) would prefer everyone to pay the minimum amount every month. However, there is no adversity towards paying down debt as that proves credit worthiness, more loans in the future. If I can't pay you back £1k, ignoring the fact that you may know me well personally, why would you lend me another £1k in the future?

I would think that football clubs are financial dinosaurs in a sense that traditionally, they are not always profit making. I seriously doubt a bank, say Barclays, would want to manage a club, and if they do, would cross a lot of red tapes that is set by both EPL, laws of UK, and maybe even EU trade laws. Just guessing about the laws of course, but just my hunch on why a lender wouldn't want control over the assets of our club. IF they intend to repossess it, barring any lawful intervention, their sole intent would be to sell the club for a profit over their debt. Hence, would not fall under your "seize control" scenario either.

On Johnson, WHY would he sell our shares and not Tranmere at that time? I read that he is trying to sell right now, but as an investment, an EPL club should be more lucrative. My only guess is, he is forced out, deems us a losing cause given our relegation struggles, ie predicting us to drop within a few seasons after he sold, and deem Tranmere a better option that he can groom with little to no investments. Shady if you ask me.

Using Matt's example, its like selling Apple stock but keeping a penny stock, regardless of market fluctuations. I know someone will say look where the apply stock is after its $800 days, but penny stocks are often high risk no returns.

Sorry for the distraction into the financial markets. I think BK did a good job since 2003. I would still criticize him if I feel he makes a bad decision. But I would hope that Everton fans do just that and not slag him off for just his past failings. We can't change the past.

Dennis, you say: "But I would hope that Everton fans do just that and not slag him off for just his past failings. We can't change the past."

That's fair enough. Let's forgive and forget.

Now, what are the board's intentions to take us forward from this point onwards?

Every other comparable club is making, or has made ground improvements, plus a club our size should be pulling in new sponsorship deals. We have admitted defeat on a new stadium, unless someone else is prepared to pay for it of course!

As far as I can ascertain, if we come under pressure from the banks, or we require funds for new players, the business model requires us to sell the next great young talent to the highest bidder (Barkley).

So, the past tells us all we need to know about our future, even if we are all prepared to forget the missed opportunities and lies.

Kevin, that is true, and hence, we will need our ability to judge the situation correctly and criticize appropriately, sometimes (rarely) even take actions beyond just criticism. Sorry I could not explain my thoughts further. But I agree we will need to criticize them. I just feel many criticize them far too easily. Much like the "Ossie is shit" or "RM sucks" or "OFM is great" posts.

Dennis, I agree banks would not want to take over a football club, but then Kenwright doesn't owe a bank, nor someone that would want to seize control of the Club, he's quite happy for Kenwright to stay in place taking all the flak while he stays in the shadows until he can make a killing.

As for Johnson keeping Tranmere, maybe it's an emotional attachment since he brought them from the fourth division up to the second (Championship) in the 7 years before he bought into Everton. He's now owned them for 26 years and just agreed to write off the debt that he's owed by Tranmere, i.e. his own money he's invested from his own pocket, to help attract a buyer. Shady you think?

As for not being able to change the past, do you think we should forget about all the past lies and give Kenwright a clean slate because we have a new manager and the team are doing well? Do you think he's learnt anything from the past and will stop with the BS?

And just what do you define as "done a good job"? How many players sold off to pay the banks? How many nett negative spend transfer windows? Desperation Kirkby, was that part of the good job he did?

Eric, sorry, one last quick reply before my 1-hour commitment. Kirkby is pre 2003 I suppose. Also, I do not think we should adhere to the blank check forgive and forget. I agree we need the board to make a statement with their support for RM. However, since the January window is not closed, we're more of speculating than them actually doing anything. That's all what I really mean.

My bad, Kirkby is closer, some time around 2006. Though given the financial status, Kirkby was impossible. I'll have to run for now. Will be back.

Dennis, everyone knew Kirkby was impossible, so why did our board insist in going through with it and lie to the government enquiry?

Dennis - I know you are relatively new to the Blues; and may not realise that the Club has been among the pacesetters in the English game, I'm not talking about on the pitch although we are still the fourth most successful team in the English game. Goodison Park has always up until the last 20 years been decades ahead of other clubs grounds and to see it being left to rot is a terrible shame. The design hasn't helped in the modern-day era, but the lack of will by anyone who runs the club to do anything pro-active is the biggest fault in my opinion.

Obviously Bill's lack of financial clout hasn't helped but he could and should have sought alternative streams of funding but he has either been unwilling or unable to secure that type of investment. I'm afraid that Bill Kenwright to my mind has no interest in selling the club - perhaps even if he could get five or even ten times what he paid for it in the first place.

He is fulfilling his fantasy and his dream but at the expense of Everton FC who will have to at some point in the future alter the way they opeate or wither on the vine - it's nothinig to do with "Ossie is Shit", RM sucks most of the people who have or do criticise Bill do so from a position of experience and they have realised many years ago that the truth is never always as simple as it should be.

Dennis, for the first time in nearly thirty years, I honestly believe Martinez could deliver a Premier League title.

Give that man £50m to invest in the summer, and we could see a real challenge next season. That's not me daydreaming, that's £50m spent on a side who will probably lose no more the 4 or 5 games this season - title winning credentials right there my friend.

This Board don't have the will to invest, or any idea how to generate that sort of money - I fear we will have missed the biggest opportunity of all if we end up losing Martinez to the likes of Arsenal.

Another crying shame we can all look back on in 20 or 30 years.

That's what hurts Dennis, how long can we go on making excuse after excuse for unsuitable owners?

Many will say "Look at us compared to Villa."

Why do we always have to be compared the lowest common denominator?

Liverpool have won something like 11 major trophies since 2000, have they had great teams? No!

Sick of fans setting the bar as low as possible - then playing the overachieving card as some sort of warped logic as to why we should all be grateful to Bill & Co.

Martinez could put us up right back where we belong. It's a pity he will never get the chance to prove it.

Patrick I certainly echo your sentiments regards the ground. When my Dad first took me to sit in the main stand in the 1970's I know he did so with a real sense of pride in our surroundings. When I took my own son to his first game this month (on his new half season ticket - rejoice in RM) we took our seats in the Upper Bullens and I cant say that I experienced the same sense of pride that my Dad had !

I'm with Eric, Kevin and Patrick on this.

There are two things that make me uneasy about BK

1) His tendency every transfer market to say (or at the very least imply) that sale proceeds will be available for the manager to use in future, only for this not to be the case and/or to be obfuscated by further transfer dealing. Maybe those of us wary of BK have memories that stretch across several windows!!

2) Given his supposed love for the club and his own admission that he has taken it as far as he can, I have a suspicion that he and his fellow shareholders want a rate of return that is very much more in line with a hard nosed aggressive investor than a real fan; thus making it improbable that we will ever have shareholders who will make the type of investment that Kevin alludes to.

Granted there are risks in spending money but I think there are big risks doing what we are doing now, effectively relying on player trading to muddle by. One day, we will not make that work, perhaps because the manager fails and then we truly run out of road. If RM is as good as we think he is, then at least with Kevin's suggestion, we'd have a chance of breaking the glass ceiling.

To paraphrase Kennedy, there is risk in a policy of action but nothing like the risk inherent in a policy of inaction.

Fran I'm with you mate! Berba would make Lukaku a 20 goal a season player overnight!

Sorry the meeting I had went over.

Kevin, agree on the bar being set low there. I believe we always had the team to challenge, even as we're considered relegation fodder. However, do we really need to invest 50m for that to happen? Not saying the board shouldn't invest. I wonder which approach RM is taking, asking for bigger investment or working within the limits. I'm guessing the second. I think we cannot jump ahead of ourselves because this is probably the pacesetter season for RM to the board. Like many detractors, they can say we're not even finished with a season yet. But like many, I feel we are in the title hunt and an investment now, even in the tune of 20m would go a long way. The sad thing is, clubs tend to overpay in Jan because of the way the window is structured.

Mark, yes, actually my MU pals are thinking OFM will do the same at MU, inaction. I wonder if it is a board thing or a manager thing sometimes. However, screaming at the board right now is actually late. We should have shouted before Jan opened. I can only hope more players come in by then. Agree on his tendency past windows. The tricky part is that we're only in the middle of the window and we tend to only finish business on the last day. That is why I said in earlier comments I preferred earlier business to show intent and also allow time to assess other needs.

Patrick, I've been following since 90s but I'm not that well tuned into the off the pitch action till 2003. Too young to understand the implications before that. And certainly not as well tuned even in the early days. Players, I kinda know, history, yes, finance, not that good until recently. Sorry I over generalized again on the sentiment. I do see some of your concern actually being true. A true blue holding on to his fantasy and not knowing he's harming it. However, I also do not see many who would buy him out and grow the club the right way. Def not an excuse for him not spending but this is the first window to see whether he is willing to spend to fund RM's success. As much as I would fund RM's work in a heartbeat, the board can and will probably have a different take of his success. Sometimes, we have to wonder, does the other members even watch football?!?!?!

Eric, I know right. Why oh why? My guess is that they are misguided that the stadium is the silver bullet, OR that they are trying to find a diversion. Whatever they are, misguided and wasted effort. I would want to see how much money we wasted there. But the other measure is often, what can they do going forward, hence I'll reserve my objections to the board for the time being.

There is 2 things I hold my judgement of the board by. (1) How much will they fund RM's budget and success (this window and others) and (2) if the funds are not here, or not as much, how much of our debt is written off by our profits. Both are kinda judged only in June, though we can have an answer for (1) in Jan. I do not think RM needs to spend that much but agree with many that money has to be made available at least. If we see only bench warmers coming in for Jan, yea, let the dogs out on the board.

I will admit, I'm often "naive" in the sense that I'm too optimistic on many occasions. I think even RM's magic will be doubted by many even right now, hence lack of investment. I do believe that RM will survive and outperform even under any sh*tstorm that comes his way and make our club title contenders again. You can say the optimism carries to a point that I believe he can win the title with little investment. Of course, that would be very hard, but...IMWT!

Dennis,

I don't think finding a buyer is that much of a problem, not even finding one with the wherewithal and inclination to invest. Lest we forget, we are talking about a club operating in the world's most prestigious league in the world's most popular sport and one that has impeccable heritage and a 'best of the rest' current position.

The problem is, I believe, finding someone to buy at the price that BK and in particular his fellow shareholders are aspiring to.

Mark, I do not doubt that is the case. It actually is the same as my agreement with Patrick that he's holding on so tightly that he's hurting the club.

That's where I will defend him slightly though. If you hold the shares, given what you've seen so far, wouldn't you think that you can actually hold it for, say 1-2 seasons longer, actually challenge for the title with minimal investment, and actually sell it at the astronomical value? Greed is there, not many will give it up. I just hope he will at least invest because that is the minimum need for RM to perform the magic he's done so far.

This window is interesting in many ways because of that. If he spends, most of us will almost immediately forget his past sins. If he doesn't, we'll all fear how long RM will stay. Either way, I think RM will do just fine. BK and the board should be worrying right now because if RM leaves, all of us will turn against them.

I don't think the Jones bid is indicative of a lack of money...there is no way we are going to go out and spend big on a striker in January, when we have Lukaku for six more months, and when January offers an inadequate market. Imo, we will spend between 15-20mil in the Summer, which I believe will be available from our summer and winter sales.

That said, if we are getting someone of Jones quality in, I'd rather it be on loan than a permanent deal. Personally I'd prefer Mirallas up top as an option, which will be a potential now with the accelerated McGeady deal. I've heard rumours about Ince: I would be very happy if we brought him in in January for the cup price deal being suggested in the press.

And Kevin, it would require more than 50mil to make us title contenders. By the end of this season, we will be a good 12 points off the lead IMO, as the lack of squad depth begins to tell. And that's without any European football or a Capital One Cup run. We've also managed that with a striker who would probaly cost 25-30mil to replace, and two other very good loan signings who we may not get back.

Any news on Deulofeu? I think he could play in the Barkley role. Hotlby from Spurs appeals big time, although as previously mentioned, I doubt Spurs would sell to a rival.

You are indeed an unlucky sod, Dennis, as the Prem era has been just about the longest period in the doldrums any of us have had to experience.

Your optimism - and naivity over BK - serves you well and says much for your outlook on life in general.

For me, my 50 years as a follower has been akin to a voyage on 'the sea of heartbreaks' with only Catterick and Kendal 1 providing any relief from constant disappointment.

I envy you your sunny disposition but suspect your belief that the present regime will return us to the very top any time soon will, as ever, be thwarted by inadequate resources.

Phil, I have no worries about that.

As mentioned in a previous comment on another thread, I can only support a team that I can align my vision to. My vision for us is to achieve more than what we achieve today, playing more beautiful football than we do today, with less investment than most intended. That includes having a world class academy that produces 1-2 starters every few years. It is very difficult, but it can be done, and I believe it can be done under RM.

Of course, I reserve my optimism to RM's tenure here and will judge the board critically at the end of every window and season. Still, I hope my optimism will be able to brighten everyone's day :)

Come on Bobby, where's our other new faces?!

Dennis,

I have no problem with greed if that is what motivates BK and his fellow shareholders. Perhaps not entirely admirable, but I can at least understand it.

Nor do I have a problem with teary eyed emoting about utter devotion to Everton of the type seen in the 'Chairman's message'

My problem is that BK appear to do both and they are mutually exclusive. That's the root cause of my criticism.

I don't think I have ever seen a closer correlation in business and in life between budget and outcome than the EPL. Pretty much perfect correlation. Yes in theory you could do it on the cheap but you would need to have a lot of Ross Barkley's as well as Lewandowski types for the £4m or so Dortmund paid. By and large things don't work like that, hence we face the likelihood of never breaking this glass ceiling (or at least, not until the oligarch crook and the slimey oil men get bored of their respective toys)

I would like us to put a bid in for Holtby they got him for a knock down price, so a £5mill bid would give them a big profit.

Also Chandli and Capoue want out, Spurs the how many midfielders have they fucked up..

Mark, I agree with the contradiction, although I have no answer for that. For all we know, it might just be that both are true. I also agree with the correlation, though we've been always the odd one out. I don't really know what to say in terms of that because they are true, but we're still doing well. It will now boil down to how long we can keep going forward and whether we'll finally break that glass ceiling.

I don't want him. That being said, any striker will score more goals under Martinez than under Pulis. Also, he's about as good as Jelavic. £6.5m in, £1m out, no loss of quality. Makes sense.

I think Martinez wants to spend in the summer as opposed to January. I think there are better players available but this signing would do enough to round out the squad.

This will not happen. Relax. I guarantee that this deal will not take place.

It's just red top crap.