Martinez linked with Canales loan move

I think we have unlimited loans for overseas players but we are at our limit for domestic loans?

David, you might be right but I can't nail this one down.

I was under the impression that we were allowed a maximum of four loan players at any one time but it looks as though there is a limit of two on domestic loans but some reports say international loans are "essentially limitless".

Think Canales would be a real coup at only 22. The fact we have Martinez Robles Delofueu will help (if he doesn't speak English) as well as the settling process. Feels a bit like the Arteta move, a young Spanish prospect. I hope it happens. I remember when Madrid signed him and he was portrayed as the best young midfield prospect in Spain at the time. If its only £4m it may be wise to take the gamble now and buy him.

It's 4 loans maximum surely?!

This is hard to imagine.

My understanding of the rules on loans is that it is a maximum of 4 domestic loans in a season but only 2 at a time, i.e. 2 players September to December and then 2 different ones January to May, or only 2 on season long loans like Lukaku and Barry (and the permutation in between that would give three domestic loanees in a season). For instance, if we had made Barry a permanent signing in this window then we could have got another domestic loanee for the rest of the season because we would be back down to one domestic loanee.

Foreign loans are unlimited because they are classed as transfers not loans, therefore we can get more of those if we want to.

£4 million doesn't seem expensive for a 'star'. Does this reflect that he is running down his contract (which also accounts for him being out of favour) or has his form slumped and his career stalled? Madrid, to Valencia, to last chance saloon?

Attacking midfielder: is he versatile enough for other roles or would he be cover / potential replacement for Barkley? Worry about that if he actually arrives I suppose.

Random South American dude we should buy: Josepmir Ballon. Peruvian international and all around STUD. I nailed him on a free in FIFA 13 and he was pure gold, Jerry, GOLD. With a name like Josepmir.......we could all have fun.
Plus, he is BOYS with Messi!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5LHGf596ns

Does he have any soft tissue injury problems?

Steve @ 841

Love your humour mate. Excellent!

Not sure how the loan rules work, but it seems clear that its 2 domestic plus unlimited from overseas?

So maybe the '4' rule is the max you can play or name in a match-day squad? Anybody clarify?

As to the Canales rumour, I am sure Roberto and his team have a good grasp of the rules and if they are after him will do the right thing.

Woke up very upset still about Oviedo: snarled at the missus and the dog ran away as soon as he saw me (or was it the other way round...)

Must say I was impressed by Freeman at left wing for Stevenage yesterday... Good touch, a few tricks and a decent shot. Looked far better than a League 1 player. Could do worse than pick up the odd player like that to pad the squad I reckon.

Hoping for a home draw later: Ball #10. COYB

Peter not sure Freeman could smack his own arse with a banjo. All his attempts were wild wellies without worrying Robles (nice alliteration even even you disagree hey)

Canales at £4m would be an absolute steal. I know he's had his cruciate problems but he seems to have gotten over that. Lukaku for £23m according to the mirror. We could get two, young, world class players for under £30m. Come on boys pen bill, get yer cheque book out.

Canales maybe a steal at £4 million but my brother-in-law is a Valencia born Spaniard and though he rates the lad, he has had horrible injury problems since Madrid signed him and then loaned him to Valencia. They bought him and the problems have continued.

Potentially great player, worrying tracking record.

£4m-buy him now! Bargain.

I think if there is a realistic chance of making Lukaku a permanent addition in the summer, we should pull all the 'stops out' !
Okay the lad is currently experiencing a bit of a lean spell, but then most strikers do, I think we have seen enough of what he can do, and the impact player he can be for Everton.
As for the lean spell, I just hope that Tuesday will inspire his goal scoring instincts and leave Anfield with three points, onward and upward after that!

We really should do everything we can to buy Lukaku in the summer – make him ours, develop him, invest in him and have a highly regarded striker on our books. It's a no-brainer for me.

Please please no more loans of players with histories of injuries. I think this must be why the owning clubs are letting them go if they are so brilliant.

I think we should try to get cover as we have lots of long term injuries, we have lost Oviedo for the rest of the season and I am suspicious as to what is going on with Baines. Why is this contract not signed? It is starting to have the same run as the Moyes saga, is he waiting for MU to come in with an offer? If so, he should go now and let's get as much as we can for him.

Look at Tom Ince, he doesn't want to stay at Blackpool after his dad was sacked by Tweet, his young family want to remain in the Northwest. It's a no-brainer.

Agree Linda, Baines supposedly signing a new contract is a strange one, it was rumoured about 10 days ago and, since then, zilch. As you mention, could he be waiting till the end of the transfer window before committing, just in case the Manc's come back in?

And if they do come back for him Brian let's get £20 million and allow Martinez to rebuild over the summer. I don't want players who mess the club about we had too much of that with OFM.

I am of a mind to think that, if he doesn't sign soon, the club should consider if he deserves the reward of a big deal bearing in mind his age.

We have I think now far too many injuries to get into the top 4, losing little Bryan is a big loss but I expect him to play at the World Cup and stuff England no doubt.

How could we even consider allowing Baines to go, Linda? Whether he wants to or not we have no cover for him without Oviedo whatsoever. If he doesn't sign a new contract he can go in the summer, but not now. It would be suicidal.

I seem to remember Roberto saying that the club's big players will be going nowhere in January.

He comes across as someone who speaks the truth.

2 + 2 = Baines is going nowhere in January... simples!

I know he can't or doesn't want to run about but in our unbelievable injury predicament then i think Berbatov at £2m is an absolute bargain and would sign him up in an instant!

Berba or Jones? No-brainer.... even though looks like Jones is going to Cardiff. Thank God!

He also said: "We will come out of the transfer window stronger than we went in... The priority was to get cover for Kone and Gibson... Jela would only go when a replacement was sorted... He has no more business planned this window.

I fear it's only the last one that will come true. I'm sure nobody else believes McGeady and an injured Ivorian giant are all we need to take us to the next level.

Our next sponsors are sure to be Wonga.

RM now needs to look at cover for Baines now Bryan has broken his leg, no cover at all cos even Garbutt is out on a season long loan. Don't forget, Traore is only cover for Lukaku and McGeady is a squad player.

If we are to go all out out now for CL spot, we need some magician's deals whether they are loans from abroad (if rules allow) or money saved for summer to buy at reasonable prices and not inflated as is the case with this window. Also we need as much money as possible to buy a top striker, whether it be Lukaku or someone else, it's going to be a lot to ask with the injuries we have got,

However, also look on the brighter side at the players we have to return: Barkley, Delboy, Coleman etc. A good result on Tuesday and things may look even brighter, we just have to trust RM to come up with the goods now the picture has changed and believe him... When he says Baines is due to sign a new contract, don't forget the people who do the dealing with contracts etc are also probably busy trying to sort out incoming and outgoing players' deals including the players we have sent out on loan. (11 up to now, isn't it?)

Lukaku doesn't impress me and I'm not convinced he ever will.

With 4 loan players already in and a possibility of more and 10 players loaned out I think Everton's new badge will have the three brass balls replacing Rupert's Tower.

As the loan players coming in are needed either as regulars or coverage, I hope that the players loaned out are good enough to replace them after they go back to their parent clubs.

To me, the loan system is like borrowing but, the more you borrow the deeper in dept you go. My feelings are that when supporters are talking about if you know your history (I most probably won't be around), the performances and triumphs are about Everton players and not about players belonging to other clubs playing for Everton.

Harold I'm afraid I have to agree with you, I know Stevenage are a poor side but Naismith and Mirallas showed how to hold the ball up front and that is the poorest aspect of Lukaku's play so far - of course he can improve that part of his game - but as somebody else has mentioned it's either a talent that you have or don't have and he doesn't appear to have it. I certainly wouldn't want to pay more than £12m for him and even that fee would be a huge gamble for Everton FC.

Yes, Patrick. Few promising 20-year-olds make the grade. Look at past England U21 sides and you'll see that most have disappeared without trace.

Bill (968) - times have changed and we are no longer able to pay the sort of wages that the elite players have come to expect, so a different strategy needs to be considered.

Part of that is likely to involve utilizing a number of fringe players from clubs who have a surplus of top quality to bolster your squad until you can bring in permanent signings or develop younger prospects. Railing against this policy is ignoring the reality of the club's current finances.

RM has already said that he thinks he can build a competitive side without having top dollar to spend, but the consequence of the relative lack of funds is that it will be a long-term project. Judicious use of the loan market can potentially accelerate that process by giving us access to players who we probably could not afford to sign permanently.

It isn't necessarily inexpensive but it doesn't require the large capital expenditure that we would probably have to borrow at punitive rates anyway. It is a valid option for the short-term.

Think we should change our sponsors to National Injury Helpline.

Said it over and over again – put Naismith in front of goal and he will score nearly every time, what he lacks in skill he makes up for on chances on goal.

It's no use playing him on the wing or in midfield, he's a goal poacher... sadly almost destroyed by OFM playing the guy out of position.

It's not often he misses the target either, unlike some who clear Row Z with their efforts on goal.

Wouldn't hurt to have another midfielder, but surely we should be looking for a central / defensive mid rather than another attacking one. I think most people would be more accepting of another loan if there is an agreed price. Try before you buy!

I agree Brian, Naismith can't be worse than Osman, he has a natural eye for goal and knows how to play strikers in. I thought he and Mirallas played well together.

I know people will argue that it was Stevenage but Osman still looked ordinary and was caught a couple of times.

Canales has lost 12 months through injury now and Valencia want to off load and are happy to take a €3.5m loss. Couple this with Madrid not taking up their option of buying him back considering their squad depletion I don't think he's worth the risk with the injuries we already have.

We tried this with Blomqvist. 1 goal against Sunderland and his knee injury continued to plague him.

It's a shame really as he is very much in the same mould as Oscar.

"It's no use playing him on the wing or in midfield, he's a goal poacher..."

Got to agree with this. He looks poor round most of the pitch, but he battles and chases for everything and comes alive near the goal. Rule him out as a wide option and use him as a squad player up front.

Still can't believe the stick Osman gets. I must be watching a different player.

Harold.

Agree with your most of your posts but please, how do you need convincing about Lukaku? What is it that he's not giving to the team? For me he makes space for both Mirallas & Barkley, continually taking defenders out of play and for a forward he is unselfish. Sure, his current form has dropped from what we saw at OT and the Emirates but most top strikers would suffer when the delivery starts running dry, at the moment Lukaku is having to make his own goals.

Lukaku gives Everton something we have not seen for many a year and, with the right service, I'm confident you will see this on Tuesday.

I'm puzzled somewhat by RM choice of strikers, Lukaku & Traore, they would seem to me to be more suited stature wise to one of Sam Allardyce type teams!

He might of course have been limited in choice of course, a case of 'beggars can't be choosers'... But they way he wants us to play, ie, on the ground passing game, would it not make more sense for our strikers to be shorter nippier types?

I agree Mike, but unless we have at least Barkley and Pinnear back where is that service going to come from?

Si #979
I was under the impression that OFM had built a competitive side over the last number of years without using the loan system to a large extent. If you are referring to the European leagues as a yardstick to a competitive side surely you realise that numerous times over the last number of years the opportunity was there but due to the reluctance of the board to srenghthen the team in January we failed.

I understand the financial costs of the supposed elite players that is why ToffeeWeb were kind enough to print the article I wrote called (Can Everton be competitive in the transfer market ) and the majority of fans are in agreement that we can not pay the wages.

The point you make that it is a long term project how do you explain that clubs below us who do not have Billionaire chairman are still competitive in the transfer market.As far developing young players, the problem becomes, as soon as they become internationals the money clubs come calling and off they go.

The number of young players that have come through the sytem from the youth teams over the last number of years and have become a regular player in the first team you can count on the fingers of one hand and that is why I criticize the amount of loan players.

As supporters we should ask ourselves if all the loan players return to their own clubs how are we going to replace them if the clubs financial state is so poor, if at the moment the only player we have for the number 9 place Velious is a backup to a loan player who is a backup to a loan player.

Yes the loan system is there to be exploited but this seems more of our beloved chairmans ideas than the managers.To me it appears strange that Everton are projected to be in the top 20 richest clubs yet we can not afford to buy players.

Raymond, despite his height I don't think Traore is the target man type. He lists heading as his worst quality and instead has pace and good technique to get in behind or beat men with the ball. Supposedly.

Sam, we'll have a better idea when we see Traore of course, and I suppose Dzeko is pretty tall for City and he cant stop scoring when he plays.

It just seems that our 2 lonees are not what I would expect to be a perfect build for a passing side.
I was thinking along the lines of a Aguero type, ok I know we cant afford someone of his quality, who can, but that sort of build.

Mike. He's definitely made a difference. No doubt about it. He also gets no service. No doubt about that either. It's just that he seems so awkward on the ball and lacking real aggression. If he came good I'd be absolutely delighted. Martinez appears to rate him and with Billy Boy meeting up with the Chelski exects in London, a permanent deal may happen in the summer. They weren't getting together for laughs, that's for sure.

The last time OFM wanted to spend in January we would have forked out £4.5m more than what the player was sold for, to a team fighting relegation.

Beattie, bought in January as was Jelavic. Most players bought in January are either vastly overpriced because you're desperate, suffering poor form, or just poor.

Back on the topic of the article, I hope RM manages to secure Canales. Yes, he has had some bad injuries but a loan gives us the chance to see how he gets on for the rest of this season and if he comes through unscathed and contributing, a buy clause of just £4m might prove to be a very tasty piece of business.

So long as his very bad injuries haven't semi crippled him, this lad was the talk of La Liga a couple of seasons ago and is real quality. Worth the punt...

Bill, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

It is obvious that you haven't listened to / read what Roberto Martinez has had to say on his intention to have us challenging for top four and how he believes that the loan market can be another string to your bow when trying to compete directly with the mega rich.

We are talking about a level above the competitiveness delivered by OFM and consisting of more attractive football to boot. Thus far, the Martinez loanees, as a group, have been a cut above anything David Moyes gathered with any regularity and we would certainly remain in the mix for fourth place (without needing any reinforcements) if we weren't currently plagued by injuries.

You appear to be distorting the issue by arbitrarily heavily weighting the potential negatives of loans and assuming that we will continue to be reliant on them in the long-term. Considering our Chairman's history you may be right to be concerned, but we are at least 6 months away from finding out if your fears are about to be realized.

Many people have pointed out that January tends to be a difficult transfer window in which to get value-for-money permanent deals. If by September more weak points in the squad haven't been 'permanently' addressed then I will join you in bemoaning our over reliance on loans.

Canales is a quality player but his injury record is one that makes Johnathon Woodgate look like a good investment. I agree with Mark (100) a loan with a buy out might be worthwhile but only if pay his wages when he plays.

There is also a rumour doing the rounds that we are to make an offer for Leon Britton.

We can get Canales on loan with an option to buy (£4m). Apparently, one of his idols is Pienaar after watching him score against arsenal a while back. This is a no brainer IMO. Many have said that we haven't replaced Arteta and his creativity well, this lad has it in bucketfuls. What's to lose? Of he doesn't work out he goes back. If he does we will have a great little player on our hands.

Si. My point is that loan players are only a temporary fix and yes the ones at the moment are making a huge difference in the squad and the way we play under the new manager's philosophy. The problem is when they leave we have no-one to replace them and I believe that BK will want to continue with this policy as it appears a cheaper method of running the club.

As Everton seem to be one of the major players in this system, sooner or later, other clubs are going to become involved and that may reduce the players available or may force Fifa to regulate the amount of players that can be signed on loan.

Can the supporters answer the question: Why are we running an Under-21 squad when no-one is good enough for the first team?

Sign him up ASAP. He's exactly the creative playmaker we need in the middle to complement Barkley, McCarthy and Barry. Wow what a midfield !!

Bill - I think the answer to your question is that nobody at the club apart from those who work with the kids has taken much notice of the younger players unless they have been outstanding. Roberto will given time address this problem but if you remember the Arsenal youngsters from a few years ago that were fantastic how many of those became fixtures in the Arsenal first team? I'm only guessing but I don't think it was many if indeed any but I might be wrong.

Dave (#192), No, both Stones and Barkley look excellent prospects but, as I said, if the money clubs come calling with large amounts to turn their heads, we will loose them. I understand that Mr Martinez will not want to sell them but the problem is BK, who can't be trusted where money is concerned.

The problem I have is with the amount of loan players we are bringing in; as Barkley is already a first-team player, they don't affect his position. My concern is who comes in when the loan players go back.

At the moment, we have 4 loan players that may need replacing: (a) Lukaku who we will not be able to afford; (b) Barry, for us to sign him, he will have to take a big wage cut; (c) Deulofeu who Barcelona will want back; and (d) Traoré who will go back to Monaco — plus other players are being mentioned to come in on loan.

In regards to the Under-21s all being out on loan, Mr Martinez has been at the club for about 8 months so I am sure during this period of time he must have assessed the players on the fringe of the first team squad and this is why we are going over the top on loan players.

Remember, we may not be able to get the loan players in the future that are as good as the ones we have this time around.

One of the advantages of Martinez coming from Catalonia and Spain he would have knowledge about very good Spanish players playing in the La Liga with transfer fees Everton can afford.

Fair enough to offer some balance Bill, but you are also making assumptions in your argument that may not be true.

In terms of the 4 players on loan:

i) Barry – out of contract at the end of the season, do you seriously think we won't sign him? He's been great for us, we've resurrected his career. This is surely a done deal.

ii) Traore – It's been mentioned several times there's an option on a further year here, so we could well keep him on if he does the business.

iii) Deulofeu – He's one we won't be able to buy I agree and he may have to go back in the summer, but equally he's not exactly going to walk into the Barcelona first team is he, from my recollection they aren't exactly lacking in midfield and attacking talent. I'd say there's a better than even chance that he could stay on for another year.

iv) Lukaku – the big question mark. With Chelsea looking to buy Diego Costa and Mourinho clearly not shy to let top talent be traded if it's not his buy or quite right for his squad (Mata FFS!!) and with the need to stick to financial fair play, I think it's entirely possible that Romelu will be out of Stamford bridge in the summer for a decent price. The question is can we afford that price? And will it be worth it? I'm a massive fan of what Lukaku does for us all round, but he's not playing at the same level as when he started.

I would also add that it's not as though Martinez isn't also adding full-time talent – we've brought in 5 players under contract so far alongside the 4 loanees.

Robles – decent back up keeper, still prone to the odd mistake but a good prospect.
Alcaraz – looked brilliant when fit, but injury prone.
McCarthy – essential part of our midfield; far more consistent (if understated) than Fellaini
McGeady – too early to say, but showed promise and intelligence if first game and adds options.
Kone – jury is out, but then again so is he with a very unlucky injury.

With the exception of Fellaini who was an important first team player at the time, the only players going out are those squad players that weren't cutting it in the first team or who we'd probably all agree were not of a high enough consistent quality for a top-4 challenging side (Jelavic, Anichebe, soon Heitinga and Vellios).

Obviously this is still a work in progress, we do need one more now to cover Oviedo's injury (either left back or central midfield), and the summer will see considerable further surgery (the nature of which will be affected by where we finish) but I'd say so far so good.

The loan system is a nice idea for the short term but I fear long term is unsustainable. In one year you can pull off a coup like Lukaku or Gerard D but year in year out it becomes very hard work to sustain the quality of loan players expecting them to come in a kick off from day 1...

Every year your team is in flux which I also don't think creates a great team dynamic.... We'll see.. But I suspect RM would like a permanent striker for next season.

Chris In my letter my comment was that we may loose the 4 loan players not that we will. In Barry's case I stated that for him to stay he would have to take a large pay cut and there are not many people who will do that.

What I am assuming is that the club will not wait until the end of the season to make its plans for the next season but will already have an understanding of what they will require. As for the players we already signed, none of them play in the same position as the loan players.