Manchester City preparing bid for Stones

Truly torn here. If he can't get ahead of Cahill for England, why not take 㿔mil? We could use that money for top players and buy a defender or two for ٣-10mil each.

I wouldn't mind Micah Richards on the bench to cover RB & CB, then can get a top CB to partner Funes Mori when Jags gets past it. (Steve Cook at Bournemouth always looks solid.)

We should do exactly the same as we've done with Rom. Slap a 75mil on him. Would much prefer Stones to stay than Lukaku. I rate Stones alot more than Rom, by far more potential and I definitely think he's worth more. Hope he stays even for one more year and gives Koeman a chance to show him what a proper manager is and what a proper manager can do with this team, which had got great potential.

Sell him. Much easier to find a replacement than Lukaku. Plus, Stones handed in a transfer request, whereas Lukaku hasn't.

Get what we can asap. Anyone not committed to our new regime, move them on.

Like night follows day we will come to regret selling Stones. Players of this ilk come along rarely. I pose this - when did we see a centre half that even remotely looked this good on the ball? The defending aspect of his game can be improved through coaching but the qualities he has presently can't be; if they could why don't Terry (for some reason this player seems to have become the archetypal template [even on this site] for defending in this country despite there being a whole host of far better examples) and others start with the defending and then learn skills like JS' such as ball control with either foot, pace, passing, running with the ball. The reality is that can't be taught. We simply have to keep hold of John.

Damian#2 - spot on!

Thing is Damian (not talking to self), what if he just does not want to stay?

With Koeman's experience I reckon we could see a big improvement in Stones (not hard after last year) but the one concern is this: Can any manager get rid of the youthful arrogance?

I believe Martinez is to blame for constantly blowing smoke up the arse of players, however poor their performances. Because of that though, as long as Stones believes he is too good to do as his manager wants (or even worse, is too good for the club) I'd prefer him gone. Of course, if that can be tempered I'd want him as a future captain of club and country.

Damian(#2);

Sorry but if those skills can't be taught then why does anyone bother with coaches and managers, just someone to pick the team? Hand-foot-eye coordination may not be able to be taught but pace can be improved, control learnt... as can passing and running with the ball.

Beating a man is more difficult but can be replaced by learning how to shield the ball and positioning can be improved by knowing where to run according to positions other players take. A lot of it is known as experience.

Would I sell him? Not until Koeman and his coaches have some time with him and maybe not even then.

If Moshiri truly means business, he will not sell Stones to a rival, which is what we hope City now are?

With only 2 years left on John Stones's contract, then I believe the club will sell him if he does not sign an extended contract before the August kick off.

Love the word 'preparing' in the context of bids for players.

Suggests something other than a "£50 million?" "Naaah" phonecall/conversation.

Preparing a bid seems much grander. Always imagine a feller (possibly a monk) with a piece of parchment, a feather pen and a bottle of ink, doing incredibly elaborate..um.. 'preparing.'

"On ye 25 daye off ye monthe off June, in the yere off our Lorde, 2016, Ye futball clube Manchefter City, mayde Evertone an offer....'

When he's done writing the bid, this is framed, placed on a large cushion....etc.

Surely if the walking ego is worth £100 k a week then so is young Mr Stones who not only is a very talented footballer with yet more potential to fill but also able to conduct himself properly and professionally in the press .

Sam #7

Man City aren't a rival at this stage, unfortunately.

No defender is worth £40m+ in my opinion.

If they're daft enough to offer that amount of money, snap their arms off and put it towards the new stadium.

Leicester have shown that 11 guys all working together 120% is what gets you results.

He will not be sold, it's as simple as that. The club do not want to sell him nor Lukaku. Future club captain, 10+ years ahead of him as being the best centre half in England. It makes no sense to sell.

It's not financially sound to sell him and is nonsensical in a footballing sense. It won't happen. As a club we are moving forwards not backwards.

'Preparing'

A simple word that allows a journalist to publish any unsubstantiated transfer rumour without any fear of repercussion.

I am hoping John Stones has or will be influenced by the appointment of Ronald Koeman as our manager.

RK has much more to offer the player by way of his personal development as a centre half.

It could all boil down to the the discussions RK has with him on his return from the Euro's.

If after that John Stones still wants away and City put in a decent bid for him then I think we should sell him. We have been down this road once before.

I'm sorry Eugene(#9,) it is not framed and put on a cushion, it is submitted to ToffeeWeb and we kick the shit out of it.
Never under estimate the power of large groups of ignorant people, whoever they may be.

I've yet to see the man who "learnt" how to control a ball.

You either can or you cant

Laurie (#15), I agree entirely. I hope Stones sees the brighter future at Goodison. I for one think we will go places with this new regime and their forward-thinking. (Did I just say that? I HATE management-speak !)

Alan - 'Never under estimate the power of large groups of ignorant people, whoever they may be.'

Believe me that is one thing I never do, in fact I'm £500 better off having bet on the ignorance of a large (52%) group of the population (obviously not happy the future's fucked for 90% of under 30s but...).

Actually if there was a referendum every week in Britain asking the 'right' questions ('Should we introduce hanging for people who look a bit gay?', 'Should political correctness gone-mad be banned?', 'Should wearing poppies for 10 months of the year be mandatory?' etc etc) I'd be a betting billionaire by September.

Darren (#17); Really? And you said you had a badge for it?

When I played, albeit not much more than I-Zingari, I learnt several different ways of controlling a ball from those with whom I played, whether that was on the run, stood still, chest, thigh, shin and even with my back to the direction of the ball or the way I wanted to go through using my instep.

Or is it the use of learnt which is equally acceptable to learned? Or are you just being a cant because of previous posts?

Bobby @11 agreed mate at this moment in time they are not. But, as I say in my earlier post, if Moshiri has serious ambitions then no way should he sell to City.

At this moment in time, City are not our rivals... but that is what we aspire to be. If we sell to them now, that will just wave the white flag I'm afraid. Over to you, Mr Moshiri!

Alan #19, yes technique can be learnt (sic) - in fact, when you think of it, we're not born with the technique to control a ball, so we obviously learn it. Just a question of how long you can keep learning. I'm a fan of lifelong learning.

Re Alan at #6.

The point I was endeavouring to make, clearly not well enough, was that John Stones is starting from a much more advanced position in terms of innate ability than many others. It is often overused hyperbole but he is full to the brim with natural ability.

Even if one were to adopt Terry as the template then Terry was simply never able to master the additional abilities Stones starts with. It is a far easier task to coach positioning and other rudimentary defensive skills than to teach what Stones has by way of other high-end skills.

He was not best served by Martinez and my consistent view was that the measure of the true loss of what Martinez was doing was in the diminution in value of Stones as the season progressed. It is a matter of opinion I know but we have to keep hold of this player. It seems so obvious to me.

Damian (#22); I did say that I agreed that Everton should keep Stones and he does need some coaching to improve some of his defensive skills. I do agree with you that he possesses skills that seem instinctive particularly moving out of defence with the ball. I say instinctive, rather than advanced, as someone like Browning may have far superior heading ability but I might just be a little pedantic on that matter.

One of the things I agreed on with Martinez was that you have to have the ball to play better football but the play out of defence was far too slow, there seemed to be a reluctance by the midfield to help move the ball out and this rather negated the overlapping ability that marked our fullback's play.

I still think that skills can be coached, whether we agree on that or not, but it is that instinctive ability that helps separate the best from the rest.

Alan, I agree with your observation re our midfield. The stagnation of McCarthy and Besic has meant that Stones's ability to take the ball out of defence was negated in its effect by the fact that the midfield cannot take advantage of the space afforded.

Neither of these two have showed, in sufficient measure, a desire or even an inclination to improve and develop their game. Such an attitude will have a short shelf-life under the new organisation.

Damian (#28/29);

Sorry, I was enjoying the conversation (should that be correspondence?) stopped for a bite to eat, a glass of white wine (no matter how expensive, I now know why I prefer the red, If you'll forgive the expression) and an episode of "Live at the Apollo", the nearest we get to humour in this neck of the colonies.

I've always considered that McCarthy was vastly overpriced and overrated. Besic, on the other hand, is something of an enigma. Is he, like Stones, a "ball-playing" defender rather than a defensive midfielder? – which seems to be based on his man to man-marking of Messi at the World Cup in 2014. Every time he's looked like showing the goods, he has been injured once after hitting the post and the other after cutting into the box (memory serves not to recall when or who the opposition was) but his may be a move to a higher shelf.

And, yes, I'm going to repeat it, I have confidence that with the right coaching we have a few gems in there, internationals and juniors. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Academy today's version of the School of Science?

Take £70 million cash! No part exchange! Happy days!

Oh, Damian, by the way, ball playing central defenders (rather than centre halves) as per your #2 (or #4). My first recollection was Carlos Alberto and how would you classify Bobby Moore and Beckenbaur and nearer home Kevin Ratcliffe. If that's what you meant, that is high company indeed. Before my time but I've heard that Duncan Edwards and T.G.Jones weren't too bad either and dare I say it, Yosser Hughes.

I would like to see Koeman and Moshiri do everything they possibly can to persuade John Stones to stay and become a great player at Everton.

Sadly, I think the lad himself may recognize that his superb confidence has created a rift with a hyper-critical section of the fanbase, who have been far too quick to condemn this as 'arrogance'. He will be a massive, massive loss if he leaves.

Alan, The 'School of Science' refers to the ethos and aspirations of the entire club, I believe – not just the Academy. Although I understand the perception. Roberto reinstated it ever so briefly before his crackpot 'philosophy' messed around with the curriculum and threw the rulebook out the window; let's hope Ronnie can bring it back and make it more sustainable and enduring.

JS has ability with the ball at his feet, and I've compared him to a young Beckenbauer myself, him being the best defender/defensive mid I've ever seen (Sorry, Mr Koeman!) BUT he is relatively slight of frame and height as a centre back in the Premier League. In La Liga he might flourish but even at a club like City he might continue in not really achieving the heights he and we all want........unless he moves into sweeper or the ONE central defensive mid place. All in all, as I've said before, Koeman could be the very man to help him maximise his talents, after which he'd still have ten years left to fulfil his ambitions.

Unless Koeman plays Stones as a defensive midfielder move over Barry then perhaps he should go. His lack of height is a worry... neither him nor Jags for that matter.

I would slap a fee of £49mil and be done with it. With Lukaku looks like we want at least £65mil. If we can't find quality replacements, at least we'll have money in the bank to spend wisely.

Interesting viewpoint that, Michael. I have always been under the impression that it came about more, or originally, through the number of players that came through the junior ranks. Wright, Labone, Hurst, Harvey, Husband, Royle, Whittle.
What are the earliest memories, timewise, of the School of Science?

My Dad always referred to us as the Academy Of Science, and that was before I started actually going to the match in 59-60 season. I regarded that that was our epithet long before then. My Dad was watching us in the 1920's and his dad before him and I always thought that was a name everyone knew as ours.

Darren,

Control cannot be "learnt." Really? Winning comment of the weekend thus far. To be polite, I won't say in what competition.

Damian, it isn't Stones' ball playing skills that are the issue. It is, and has always been, his defending skills that are deficient. He plays and tackles (sliding in from the side after sprinting to catch up) like a midfielder. It is his lack of courage in the 6 yard box and his ball watching and lack of positioning that are the issue.

Koeman can teach some of this, but the player has to want to do the dirty work and I have not seen Stones give any indication he is up for it. Not a knock as courage and liking the physical side of the game cannot be "learnt."

However, the things he can do and does do including winning one v one battles and getting forward, and making good passes along with nifty footskills point to him being a great midfielder in the making. He can be ten times the player Dier will ever be in that position. In a defensive mid position he could be captain of England.

The origin of the term is not well documented, but some ascribe it to Steve Bloomer of Derby County and England in the late Twenties. It was in 1928, so legend has it, that Bloomer said of Everton: "They always manage to serve up football of the highest scientific order" and "worship at the shrine of craft and science." (Clearly footballers were a good deal more eloquent in those days). Taken from the link below.

TW Folklore

Alan J (31) when you mentioned Yosser Hughes I take it you meant Laurie Hughes not that twat Emlyn.

The problem that both Everton and Koeman have is trying to persuade both Stones and Lukaku, that they can achieve all they want by staying at Everton.
This in my opinion is a massive task, City have appointed a world class coach, and will offer Stones more money than we can plus Champions league football. Not in maybe a few seasons time but right now. So why would he and Lukaku hang about for something that is a big leap of faith to believe that we will Qualify for Champions league spot next season.

Good point Brian. I suppose if Leicester (I know, league champions and all) can persuade Vardy to stay, even though they might struggle next season, we can, at least, try and keep our better players for another season.

Michael, I think Koeman will be able to inject some sense into Stones and improve him. This "feeling" that we need to sell him is all paper talk. Quotes like "we won't stand in his way a second time" is getting thrown around too much without input from us nor the player himself.

As for the critics, haters gonna hate. I see JS as a player who can be great with us, and like many good (also including great) players, he will have critics. Reminds me of how people tried to crucify CR7 over his tantrums during the Hungary game. Every player has his share of haters no matter how good they are on or off the field.

Michael 32, my opinion on the ability of John Stones has nothing to do with his perceived arrogance. In my opinion you need arrogance to be a top player.

My ongoing concern with John is his obvious lack of basic defending skills.

Two words of advice mr John Stones: Jack Rodwell

Don@34, Bobby Moore wasn't bad neither. Alan Hansen was right up there with them too, very stylish defender. I believe that Duncan Edwards would have been the best if anybody could just have known what his best position actually was.

I believe that JS could be as good if coached properly, we must keep him at least for one year to see if he fits in with the project.

Alan Thompson

Zingari league eh ?

Say no more

Good post, Martin. Stones is a super player NOW, and, allowing for the curse of Martinez, he is actually even better. We must keep him.

Also, my late father thought that Duncan Edwards was second only to George Best in the best he had ever seen. Someone said that Stones is Bobby Moore with pace. I believe he will be. Keeping him is the biggest statement of intent we could make.

No EFC player should ever be sold because that is what they want unless they put in a formal transfer request and lose their signing on fee!

No arguments on any of them from me Martin (#45) but given the physical size of many strikers these days I just wonder if JS has the beef to do the necessary to them at muck-and-bullets time. I know Koeman did though.

After refusing Chelsea's offer for John Stones three or four times it seemed strange to me that they never offered John a new and much improved contract, it seems likely that they did and John or his agent knocked it back.

That is the reason I think Stones will leave this summer even if he has to ask for a transfer, he is, I believe on £30,000 per week at Everton, I imagine he will treble that at City or elsewhere, although I would prefer him to stay.

Make a decent defensive midfielder, as a central defender he has one or two weaknesses. I would rather keep him and only sell him if he doesn't improve for an inflated price in January.

Andy@47, I didn't see Duncan Edwards but even in an era free from social media I believe that he was very special. Like you I think JS can be too and we mustn't sell him yet.

Eugene #12, you have landed on a point I have oft wondered over. What does it mean "preparing", surely they decide they want to bid x for player and whizz over an email saying we will give you so much for him and that is that? Anyone throw a light on it please??

Jim 37, you say he can be ten times the player of Eric Dier, who has probably been England's best player in this tournament. I'm not disputing that, but not without doing the dirty work he won't mate. Never.

you can't haven't read this thread properly Jim, if you think Darren has come up with the winning comment of the weekend, when Alan J, is talking about learning how to control a ball with his shin, post 23.

Don't take that the wrong way Alan, it's just that I've never really been aware of this skill, even if I have scored a few volleys off my shin, in my younger years. Ha, I used to fucking hate it, because I hadn't caught the ball properly, even though I had just scored!

Tony

I like when Jim disagrees with me, I always feel it kinda confirms I'm right.

I laughed out loud at Alan Thompson's post. it brought back some very fond memories of post-match analysis of Zingari epics.

I'm not denigrating the league, Thousands enjoyed getting together with their mates and having a game... but every team had an Alan Thompson, a Duncan Mckenzie wannabee, he was the guy who truly believed he could "play"... I could imagine the crowd (somebody's bird and a dog) would be pissing themselves as Alan "controlled" it down the wing with his shin... and I can imagine Alan puffing his chest out after successfully chasing it 25 yards and keeping it in.

A bit like these boy races who think they are Lewis Hamilton because they leave everyone at the lights when they floor their Ma's Ford Focus.

From ordinary guys off the street, Alan "learnt" to control a ball on the run, standing still, with his chest, thigh, shin (he he)... aZAkjs9ind then, wait for it... with his back to the ball - proper Duncan magic that is. Everton want 75 mill for a player who cant do any of that.

Still, its harmless delusion... and it impresses the soccer fans - although not as much as a 100 keepyuppies

I did see each of those great defenders in some cases on many occasions. Not all of them were centre backs yet each had one thing in common. That was supreme confidence in their ball skills.
John has that kind of confidence in abundance yet unlike the great ones young master Stonesneeds to include a Tony Kay type of hardness in his repertoire .

Oh, Darren, how pathetic that you've come down to personal attacks. But my football career could have been worse, I could just have been an interpreter.

As for trapping it with your shin. If the ball is bouncing just in front of you just bend your knee in front of the position of your ankle and your shin will take the pace out of it.

Sorry, Darren, I must have missed your playing credentials although you have said you coached your kids in the back garden.

I did see Duncan Edwards and he was an attacking wing half, scored goals, the player I have seen who is closest to him is Mr Gerrard from the other side.

The two best Everton central defenders I've seen were Labone and Ratcliffe. Of the two Stones more resembles Ratcliffe, he's not as solid or imposing as Labone. Ratcliffe as a youngster used often to turn out as a full back and gradually learned his craft. In the eighties his reading of the game was magnificent, but he had Reis and Bracewell in defensive midfield and either Mountfield or Watson alongside. It makes a difference.

Stones has ability, but I think he over-estimates his own skill at times and doesn't yet read the game that well.

School of Science.......Goodison aka Everton FC. It was always referred to by the faithful when I started watching in 1950 in the Boys Pen.

And mention of TG Jones......... a prince amongst centre halves. There was a man young Stones could aspire to emulate. Elegant with the ball at his feet, decisive in the air through judgement and timing when English football was built around some big direct centre forwards.

I know what Alan means, controlling a low bounce between the shin and the ground. Not easy but I know what he means.

I love watching Stones but, if he wants away and we can get a shed full of dosh for a solid young CB, then sell with my blessing. Replacing Lukaku is my worry.

Don (#33) Spot on. He is a fine footballer, a ball player who looks to use brain with skill. Sadly , rather poor in the air for a centre half.

Most cultured ball playing centre backs had a big yard dog next to them to do the nasty stuff. The obvious example is Bobby Moore with Big Jack. Colin Todd had Dave Watson at Derby. The only side to eschew this sort or pairing that I recall was that other lot... so Hansen played alongside Lawrenson, Hughes alongside Thompson. Hate to say it but they were bloody effective.

Stones to me is too pretty for the traditional centre half role. Please let us keep him but pair him with someone whose nose touches his ear, a la Steve Bruce... someone who will bully the big units who play up front instead of the reverse.

From today's rumour pages on the BBC website................

Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola believes he has won the race to sign Everton centre-back John Stones but Chelsea and Manchester United are still interested in the 22-year-old.(Sun)

Funny, because I didn't know there was a race (not yet anyway). Everton haven't said he's for sale. Koeman has not even spoken to Stones (that I'm aware of). So unless City have been speaking to Stones without Everton's permission, in which case could land City in trouble, then it's just more media bullshit......

Oooooops..... I've just noticed... it's THE SUN!!

Rob,

Hahaha. Good post. There are still one or two residents of our great city that still read that rag. But most right-minded people revile it.

Rob (62) I think the race has been on for the last nine months, it might not be City but he will go.

TG Jones sounds as though he was an absolute cracker. I would have loved to have seen him play, Bob, but one player I do remember is our new manager Ronald Koeman.

Stones should stay and learn his trade off Koeman, because I don't think there has been a better footballing central defender to learn off than this man?

Staying with Everton, for a few more years, then try and emulate Koeman, by going to play in Spain, for either Barcelona, or even Real Madrid, might be the best way forward for both Stones, and more importantly Everton FC.

Surely preparing the bid when you're a billionaire is just loading up the fax machine. How hard can it be?

Or alternatively it's just bollocks to fill a couple of column inches, to a) unsettle a player/club, b) get improved deal for player, c) satisfy the editor and then home for an early day.

Bob 59 - Jones was my dad's favourite Everton player - ever.

Guy, ditto.

I think Stones may stay, actually. Hope so.

Rob 92, you know how the media works. They identify the players they want their clubs to buy then start the ball rolling by printing this kind of shite. I'm still waiting for the screaming headlines "Bale agrees move to Man Utd" and "Neymar to sign for Premier League giants tomorrow" to come true.

Everyday, literally, dozens of players are linked to a wide variety of clubs without any foundation whatsoever. 99% of all these transfer rumours are created by unscrupulous journos and are then picked up by every Tom, Dick and Harry who has a website, blog or twitter account and the rumours snowball into an avalanche.

When it is taken with a pinch of salt, it is all good fun but, when it's done with malice, to unsettle players, then it needs to be condemned. Anyone can do it and that is disturbing.

Rob (62) - 'Funny, because I didn't know there was a race.'

Now there's an idea, one that would generate massive viewing figures (well...I'd watch).

An actual running race between two managers for a player they both want.

800m should do it.

"ITV. 9pm. STAR PLAYER RACE. This week Manchester City's Pep Guardiola races Sam Allardyce for the signature of Ghanaian striker, Gridi Ansirlee"

Advertising revenue could provide both managers with a nice lump of cash.

(Bet365 latest - Guardiola 1/200, Allardyce 1000/1)

Eugene (#69); It's an egg-and-spoon race. You have to lay the egg and eat the spoon. Big Sam's a shoo-in, get your ignorance money on it.

Anyone who thinks Man City are not our rivals needs to start watching a different sport.

We can't continue to keep selling our best young players and John Stones is one of these. The money we would receive is chickenfeed in today's climate and we would never get anyone with as much potential for the same money.

We have to start giving out statements of intent that the little Everton of Kenwright is a thing of the past, never to return. Looks like a lot of our own fans are going to need educating on this because a lot of the comments on here are pathetically naïve.

Paul, agree with you that we should see Man City as rivals, regardless of their money. Leicester have shown that any club can do it with the right attitude, manager and a dose of luck.

However, we are not in City's league when it come to money. Our new major owner may be worth £1.5bn, but that's chickenfeed compared to City. £40m is NOT chickenfeed to us, it's a fuck load of money. If the club think Stones is not worth that, then he will be sold. On the flip side, if Stones wants to leave, he simply has to refuse to sign an extension. With only 2 years left on his current contract, the club will have little choice but to take the cash now. His value will be half next summer if we don't sell.

I'm in the minority, I know, but I still think he's vastly overrated for a CB as well as the usual factor of English players being overvalued in the first place. He wanted to leave last summer, then had a shite season, was cowardly in the derby. After all that I really don't know why most people want him to stay.

Sorry to be the dissenting voice but IMHO the fact that JS is comfortable on the ball we over estimate his talent.

Last season Paul Merson had rant at Stones that was both funny and informative, and in his opinion (and mine BTW) his positional play is atrocious; the amount of goals conceded which he didn't react to, or saw late, or was the wrong side of the player was worrying. And we can't keep saying he's a young lad, because this is his third full season.

It's when you compare him with Cellini, OK a vastly more experience CB, but he's got it all; comfortable on the ball, never panics, brillant man marker, great football brain etc.

㿔mil represents good business, and look at the goals against column for the last 2 seasons, OK under Booby the clown, but I'd sit down with any poster and we can watch a DVD of all the goals against and see how many of them he was found wanting.

David,

As we all know, Merson is a self publicising dope. He kids a lot of people by getting players names wrong on purpose in commentary, playing the lovable rogue.

He talks shite 99 times out of a hundred. The statement on Stones was the exception to the rule.

It seems to me that there is a lot of preparation going into this bid. It seems only common sense that the better the preparation the better the bid will be. I suspect that by late August it will be ready and then, God help us.

I am surprised none has mentioned John Charles in this thread. By all accounts a great centre half who could also play centre forward.

I never saw him play but my dear dad (God rest his soul) rated him with T.G Jones and Duncan Edwards.

I am sure Brin would have?

I am surprised that noone has mentioned the Alan Ball method of trapping a ball.

He used to regularly control the ball with his backside much to the crowds amusement.

Completely agree that the best plan for Stones is stay with the manager who would be able to iron out his weaknesses and build up his strengths, then he might be ready for the bigger stage. By then we will be a part of that bigger stage hopefully. Nice to hear those complementary things about Tommy Jones and more memories of wonderful talents like Duncan Edwards and John Charles. John Charles was a colossus of a man, in defence or in attack he had everything and my memories of him include he was also a modest man. Duncan Edwards likewise, so young, so talented, the likes of whom we haven't seen since.

The thought of Alan Ball controlling the ball with his backside brought this gem to mind. I'm a young teen standing behind the goal at the Gladwys Street end.
Len Shackleton, playing, if my memory serves me right, for Newcastle United against the Toffies, collects the ball in his own half and sets off towards the Park end on a weaving run. Shackleton ('the clown prince of football') was amongst the cleverest dribblers of that era and defences continually backed off when he ran at them and this was such a run. He stopped, put his foot on the ball. No one was game to challenge him. Next he SAT ON THE BALL. A defender approached, he stood up, the defender propped. He SAT ON THE BALL again. Play stopped, the crowd saw the funny side of it, such an audacious play. Its way over 60 years since I witnessed the display that day, we lost as I remember it but I remember Shackleton receiving a great reception from the ever appreciative terraces of the School of Science.

Thanks for sharing that with us Bob.

My dad used to rave about TJ Jones said he was the best Everton player after Tommy Lawton that he had ever seen.

In the days when club directors were so far up themselves Shackleton wrote a book. A chapter headed 'What the average director knows about football was blank.
That did not endear him to the powers that be.
In his only game for England he paired with Stanley Matthews against Germany.
The pair of them tormented the German defence so much Shackleton in particular was accused of unsportsmanlike behaviour.
That was the only time this maestro was picked for the three lions.

I remember the book, it stirred the establishment but that chapter confirmed what the fans thought. Shack played with a grin on his face and a showman's heart.

Laurie#77

Anyone not familiar with the great John Charles could do worse than watch "The John Charles Story" on youtube. It was originally on TV and is available in three parts. Well worth a trip down memory lane. A true great.

I am equally surprised that Jim Baxter, Scotland and Rangers hasn't got a mention too. Elegant, entertaining and played for the fun of it. Get you off your seat for sure.

Just for the record, my Dad rated T G Jones as the greatest Everton player.

Ray (84) agree with you over Jim Baxter and John Charles, Baxter like Georgie Best was a great footballer but like Georgie liked the good life too much and could have had a much better career than he did, same goes for Best.

John Charles was excellent in both the centre half and centre forward positions, one of the first Brittish players to be transferred abroad, he went to Juventus for a record transfer fee at the time. I remember him playing for Leeds in a second division match and Don Donavon usually a full back but playing at centre half hardly gave Charles a look at the ball and was MOTM, Everton won 2-1.

Len Shackleton was a crowd pleaser who played the game for fun, surprised he only got one game for England, he was worth a lot more than that, but he was a maverick so maybe that explains why.

Just a few musings/comments. I love ToffeeWeb, even the petty personal bits.

Coaching. This may be a poor analogy but, as a kid I, loved drawing and painting, as many of us did, and playing footie. If I'd gone to the the Liverpool School of Art, I would have been taught mixing paint, colour combinations (I can still add blue to yellow and get green), perspective and composition. When I'm doing the walls and ceiling, my Jackson Pollack copy is great.

However, they couldn't have taught or given me the vision or technique to paint like Leonardo, Cezanne or Joaquin Sorolla (one of my favourites).

Football can be taught but some aspects of the game – vision, technique, presence – can't. It's inherent.

I'm not saying Stones is comparable to any of the footballing greats but it's like watching The Beatles when they were first playing. You just knew they were a different.

Darren (#55).
aZAKjs9ind -- Bletchley Park?

I don't think EFC want to sell Stones or Lukaku. The silly money being quoted, and not by the club, would seem to me to be a deterrent.

Dave, it's also worth remembering that John's brother Mel was also a Wales International player who played at Swansea and Arsenal, and Mel's son Jeremy played for Wales too.
If you haven't looked at the youtube John Charles story it's worth it, covering his time in Italy as well as his time in the UK. Here's the link,

Linkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3XcPVuobx8

Sorry Dave, that doesn't seem to be working, just put "John Charles Story" in youtube, that's easiest.

Ray, I have just watched the John Charles story on you tube. He must have been some footballer going by the way the Italians spoke about him. But what a down to earth man.

Stones has gone through an indifferent season after all the pre-season Chelski activity of last year.
On wonders if he will get his best form back and if he wants to stay at Goodison preferring like Rom to want away to a Champions league club.
Not getting a kick for England at the Euros must do nothing for his confidence especially as useless articles like Henderson and Sterling are playing.
In his position, I would prefer to have a player full of confidence and if there is any doubt in Big K's mind then perhaps he should be transferred before the window closes.
Personally I think Stones could play the Deier role just as well as anyone for England and could do the same at Everton in place of Barry or McCarthy.

Laurie, yes, what player and what a true gent Charles was, the fact that he's still held in such high esteem wherever he played is testament to that.

Tom#89.

I've been advocating Stones playing that role for about a year, any defensive frailties would be lessened by a slightly more forward role and would leave us more sound at the back. He also has better vision than McCarthy and his ability to carry the ball forward is of a different class.

I just hope that Koeman or Moshiri sits Stones/Lukaku etc down and says if you want to leave and if the right offer comes in then fair enough but we will not have all this nonsense disrupting our start to the season.

Give them a date, lets say August 6th ( a week before we play Spurs), and tell them that any move has to be sorted before then or else they are staying and they will be expected to be fully committed and focussed on the club that pays them.

Its ridiculous that the transfer window is ongoing when the season starts and the media is filling these players heads with garbage.

Ray (87) thanks for the tip, re John Charles, what a great player, and as Laurie says what a great man and better still he didn't know how great a player and person he was and stayed normal despite all the adulation, a bit like some of today's players !!!!!!!.

Re the transfer window.

Every club (should they choose to..and imo, they fucking should) has the option to jib it.

Every club could take out a full page ad in the Daily Bugle saying..

"For football reasons, it is now club policy at Fulchester Rovers FC that we have what is, in effect, our own transfer window. This window will closes at 3 p.m, exactly one week before the first game of the season. Any club/agent/player wishing to do transfer business with Fulchester should be aware of this and understand there will be NO exceptions after stated date/time"

If every club does it, Sky are goosed.

In the summer it would deffo work, there's bags of time to figure out who you want, when the window opens, just buy/sell.

Like the Fulchester motto says - 'Royus Roverum Fulchestinius Boloc tu Sky'

Eugene (93)why is it necessary to have a transfer window at all, in every other business people move about any time of the year. Football worked okay for decades without this obstacle.

Eugene, if only.......anything that stuffs Sky's goose.
Fulchester.....are they in the Cheshire League?

Dave, without the last minute transfer window feeding frenzy you can bet that the cost of buying players would plummet so I can't see agents etc. being in favour and Sky would have to do without the massive interest that that generates...... As you rightly say, we managed for years without a transfer window so why was one deemed necessary?

Dave(#94); I've always had the feeling that transfer windows were introduced to stop players using the right to freedom of movement, if clubs agreed not to sign players there was nowhere to go. So it was play for pay or get nowt.

Roy of the Rovers, Eh Eugene.

Great stuff.

We could do with him to replace Lukaku.

The things that make me mad, is that if the team has had a good season players agents want to renegotiate the players pay. I also find players like Pienaar picking up £70,000 per week and wasn't fit for huge chunks of that time. Never seen him offer to pay some back for getting paid top money while doing zero blank for the best part of 2 seasons.
A few seasons back Chelsea got knocked out of the Champions league and finished 3rd in their group so qualified for the Europa league. Then when they reached the semi final they then through John Terry negotiated a massive bonus plus more if they got to the final and won which they did. So even though they failed miserably in the Champions league they still fleeced the club out of millions. You couldn't make it up.

Pep going to make a massive bid. Jose has already offered a kings ransom for him . .Do we really have people on here who claim two of the games greatest ever managers have judged Stones wrongly . .and bag head Merson is calling this right ?

The broken clock theory continues to be tested

In any event Stones and Barklay would be best being on the golf course as Roy has no intention of using them.
Roy seems to be taking Iceland lightly as he plays a weakened starting eleven (only 1 RS player).
Yes, I am being sarcastic.
Crap Sterling starting again ?????

John Charles...second only to T G Jones (according to W R Dean and Thomas Lawton)

Mourinho made three bids for Stones last year. After Jose witnessing his poor defending this season, he is yet to make a fourth bid.

Let's sit back and see if the fourth bid is made.

Jose has had to settle for a cheaper option – after paying 㿊M for his second choice, there's no way he'll get another £40M for another centre-half

Why don't we sit back and see if Merson puts a bid in? Oh yeah... I was forgetting: He proved to be a managerial no-mark and is now stealing a living convincing the easily lead and the stupid that he knows what he is talking about.

Darren, give up. Stones is the future of Everton. The best coaches in the world see him as the future of their new clubs. However, some Evertonians don't rate him. It seems he just can't hoof the ball far enough.

Soooo,

Jose wanted Stones as his first choice but bought his second choice first and can't bid for his first choice second.

That makes sense.

Its not that difficult let me go through it slowly . .

Jose bid (not once, but THREE times) for Stones. he was unsuccessful 40m was not enough . . . soooooo

He goes and buys his second choice . . cheaper !

Perhaps if I explained it in Merson ?

So Jose really wanted Stones but decided not to bid for him? Man Utd refused to give him 㿔 million. They forced him into buying on the cheap?

Your logic is all over the place on this one, I am afraid.