EFC is broken beyond repair

However, I disagree with so much that's in this article that I cant be bothered to write more.

I think, on reflection, that Moshiri is more focused on ground building than team building; he might have to rethink his %'s one to the other. To make a profit, he has to have some sort of vibe going for him other than 'buy this shiny new build business opportunity in the money spinning Premier League' ... which will have to come with a health warning – May contain football players and fans.

Meanwhile, back in the Real World, after the Premier League season cranks up again following yet another maddening International break, the process of Everton and 21 19 other teams playing football matches each week against each other, will resume.

We lost against a team that is bang on form. It happens and it hurts. But don't be so melodramatic — we're not broken beyond repair, silly. Nothing of what you write even supports such a ridiculous notion.

Interesting also to hear that John Motson said that Chelsea's performance against us was the best Premier League performance he had ever seen, better than Man Utd or Arsenal in their pomp. That's some statement to come from a man who has been in the game for as long as he has.

Why can't we, as football fans, accept that we were very well beaten by a team who were simply quite brilliant on the day? We were outplayed, that much was obvious, but the subsequent inquests into the quality of the squad, etc. after one game is getting somewhat carried away. If we win, it will not mean we will win the league; if we lose, it shouldn't be necessary to start threads saying our club is broken beyond repair. Calm the fuck down, people.

Regardless of what we think, I reckon half the Premier League sides' fans would swap their teams' squads for ours. The issue, amply demonstrated by Chelsea on Saturday evening, is that our team is a long way short of the quality (and desire I know some would say) of the new "elite 6" in the Premier League. That's not to say I don't think our squad needs an overhaul of course, but I've read some posters on ToffeeWeb who are advocating shipping out 12-13 players which is ridiculous.

I think our players need to put a line through Saturday, understand how embarrassed and hurt they felt, and resolve to never feel that way again after 90 minutes. The international break has come at the right time, hopefully they'll be in a better mindset when Swansea comes to town in a couple of weeks.

In the end, it comes down to money.Man City and Chelsea are two examples of what money can do, they struggled for years before a mountain of money was hurled at them.

Good response.

You might want to check your numbers for the Premier League...

:)

The thing that worries me these days is that most of the better teams seem to attack with so much speed and movement.

I appreciate that is mainly down to confidence and the quality of players involved.

Our play seems to be very methodical and slow!

Time to speed it up...

What I would suggest though is that actions speak louder than words. Koeman has indicated that he is going to need a couple of transfer windows minimum to put his plans into place, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. The same rule applies to the issue of the stadium.

We've had heavy defeats in the past and we will have them in the future. Us as fans need to stop lauding players who aren't good enough though based on one or two good performances. We need to ship out the deadwood and not be sentimental. Oviedo, Barkley, Jagielka, Cleverley, Lennon, Kone, Gibson, Besic, McCarthy, and Robles aren't good enough for Everton FC and Baines and Coleman are looking past it in my opinion.

We need genuine class and creativity in midfield and, despite what people told me after the West Ham game, Ross Barkley is not the answer. We also need a better class of striker to complement Lukaku or offer competition to his starting place. If Lukaku doesn't score, then I honestly do not know where the goals are going to come from.

Most importantly, we need the owners to make the waterside development a reality and news of this needs to happen soon.

We need an influx of hidden jems in January who have desire and legs to replace our lazy luxury and older players. Easier said than done... though that is why we pay these people stupid money. Director of Football or just the guy who the manager blames when the shit hits the fan?

I do think that we have players who can improve us, Tom Davies instead of Cleverley, Holgate instead of Oviedo. Lennon's work rate deserves a place in the team ahead of Mirallas, Deulofeu or Barkley.

The questions are the same as last season, if you have too many players who can't be arsed working back in this league, you will be found out and the likes of Barkley needs a rocket up his arse or just dropping. Work rate will always win against lack of desire.

This season, I am trying to put a balanced outlook on proceedings. I am well aware of the size of the job that Koeman took on and I was never in the camp that suggested that this squad was the best since the 80s. I did, however, feel that Koeman could make the players more organised, which he has to an extent to be fair, and also get more out of the players and let them blossom more. But we have to conclude that some are just not good enough really.

EFC is not broken beyond repair, but it does need major surgery. The desire and courage to take on superior opponents just isn't there for a lot of the players. The chance to show the world how they can go toe to toe with some of the country's top players just completely bypassed them.

As fans we can take losing but we can't accept when the team just gives up. Yes, Chelsea were very good but any half-decent team wouldn't have caved in like that. They would have had way too much pride to know that. Our players just don't have a backbone for games like this.

These kind of posts don't just come on the back of one bad result, they come off the back of 2 miserable seasons where we were so weak it was untrue, they come off the back of not winning a trophy for 22 years, squandering numerous golden opportunities to end that cycle, they come off the back of countless games where players just don't look as though they could give a fuck.

I happen to believe that Koeman is a good choice of manager and he will get it right (just my opinion). He needs a lot of time to repair the immense amount of damage that Martinez inflicted. Just because I don't necessarily agree with the post that EFC is broken beyond repair, let's not deride the poster as a knee-jerk reaction after one bad result; it's not – it's borne out of 22 years of frustration whereby the team has consistently failed to deliver.

We have put up with relegation battles, lost finals, lost semi finals, squandered golden chances to make the Champions League, been humiliated by the RS on many occasions, not won at one of the so-called elite grounds for an age (victory at one of the worst Man Utd teams excepted) and recently experienced the worst home record... ever!! So let's not pretend this is a knee jerk reaction to one bad result. It's a reaction to 22 years of hurt. Some people have just have enough, no need to deride them for that.

I think if you listen to a lot of his post-match interviews, he talks about the mental approach and the lack of aggression in some of our players. Let's not forget that, for the past 3 seasons, they had a manager who continually praised very average performances. He has made them fitter but fixing the mental attitude will take a lot longer than making them fitter.

I would suggest that people look at Man Utd: after a couple of very average seasons, they now have a man who is used to winning. But, even with massive financial backing, it will take Mourhino time to turn things around. Let's not forget that he has paid a world record fee for a player and also got a top striker, but they are still struggling.

So far, Ronald Koeman's net spend has been zero, so yes it was disappointing on Saturday but we are in the top 7 after 11 games, and I am sure results will improve – just not as quickly as maybe we all hoped for...

Besic may have something to show but I doubt it. Similarly McCarthy. Barkley just looks lost. He hasn't really got a clue what he's supposed to be doing. I watched him last week vs West Ham – he played a pass out wide to Bolasie, and the only player in front of him was Lukaku. He made no effort whatsoever to get into the box, he just did that light jog he's so good at.

He's a passenger 90% of the game. We can't afford that, so end of this season he either improves his TEAMWORK or he gets shipped out. I'd love to see his distance covered stats vs some of the more dynamic midfielders in the Premier League.

Tom Davies actually does far more than him just being on the pitch. Looks like he wants to win, a bit like Rooney used to. The rest of them are just happy to pick up their massively inflated pay checks every month and live an extremely comfortable life. Not a winner amongst them.

Saturday was a massive wake-up call, I believe. Bit like that 6-2 drubbing we got off Villa in 1990, also on Bonfire night, when we were next to each other in the league. Only went one way from there. Which makes the January transfer window incredibly important not just for recruitment but also to show us IF anything has actually changed for the better. So stay at home, Kenwright.

By the end of this season, it will have been 30 years which is a very long time by anybody's standards and when we talk about a club living in the past then surely Everton is a fine example of that.

However, Ronald Koeman has only been here 5 minutes and he won't be close to what he is aiming for both in terms of players and performance so I do believe the man and the club, dare I say it, need some time.

As sceptical and cynical as I have become about Everton, I really do feel there is something now happening at the club at long last and, let's face it, we've waited this long so another few seasons isn't really going to make a difference if it means getting it right and putting something in place with longevity.

Whatever the politics and whatever goes on behind closed doors, I really don't know and all we can do is make assumptions which as we do know are the mother of all muck-ups.

Yeah, yeah Chelsea were great, good for them... and as you say, Craig, Liverpool are whipping everyone in sight. So when will it finally be our turn to whip?

Why can't we do a Leicester? God knows, most of us would take a year of Leicester before we depart this life!

Watching the game on Saturday (albeit on TV), I just saw no improvement but rather a style of football that was at best 'Stone Age' – lumping it up to Lukaku, hoping for a one-in-a-million lay-off. Not one decent effort in the whole match and, even if we had played for another three hours, I couldn't have seen one coming.

Some contributors to this excellent site are accused of overreacting. Granted that may be true in many cases, but frankly we are tired of this. On MotD, we didn't even warrant analysis. Just a 'poor old Everton' look from Gary Lineker.

I was duped by Martinez's first year with us, I really thought it was the dawn of something special. It wasn't. The appointment of Koeman may have given most of us hope again and he may yet do it for us. However, on this season's showing, we are still way off. Patience is a virtue, they say...

Did they stop believing in the system? each other?

How does he stop that? How does he instil belief that no cause is ever lost? He now knows who hides and panics. They must go.

I firmly believe that we are in a new era but it is far too early to declare 'false dawn'. How many players has Koeman been able to bring in? 4 first team players, I suspect at least one of those was intended to be second string, plus a 'backup' striker.

Another 4 like, eg, Gana needed (maybe Davies is one of them) before we see the grey clouds of dawn appearing over our horizon.

I have been supporting Everton since the very early 1940s and the only true time that I have experienced a feeling of 'broken beyond repair' is when Everton were relegated to the Second Division in 1951 after being trounced 6-0 in Sheffield in the final game of the season. But, lo and behold, we were back in Division One in 1954 all fixed and ready to go.

The elation after the final Division Two game at Oldham was unbelievable. You had to be there to have experienced it. Just give Everton's new manager time and thank your lucky stars that we are not in the present position of a club like Sunderland.

Get a grip. We have had one transfer window under the current regime. 30 years of stagnation are not going to be turned around in 6 months.

Saturday was dire in the extreme. But early days under Koeman and the guys he's inherited and brought in.

And if he is going to make changes it will be next season, not this. Because there are no winter bargains in the next transfer window, that shoppers can normally find.

Yet, the squad will be made even weaker at the beginning of 2017, as Bolasie and Gueye say goodbye to Everton to spend 6 weeks in the African Nations Cup with their respective international teams.

Yes, a great night in Oldham all those years ago, but even then it was patch up and hope for the best; you do realise the team that got relegated, I don't think one player was bought in from then to the time we came back up.

But I agree with you that Everton are far from being broken beyond repair – although the part about Kenwright rings a very large bell.

As Dave more or less said, we can take getting beaten – it's the manner of the defeat that hurts. They spewed it when the 2nd went in and that's shameful.

As for Jonathan's assessment, he's not far off the mark. The club has been a shambles for donkey's years and will continue to be until that fucking moron Kenwright goes. I feel embarrassed being an Evertonian today. Of course, that'll soon pass. But I fear for us with this squad of players.

"Beyond repair" strongly suggests there is some imagined marker we have crossed and like a one-way door, we have no way of going back and making the necessary repairs. Clearly there is a way back.

Koeman has spoken a number of times about there being no quick fix. The damage caused to this squad by Martinez's tactics and training methods, plus years of under-investment in that squad have left Koeman and Farhad with a significant mountain to climb, but not an impossible job.

The only thing I would agree on is that both in depth squad renewal / strengthening and stadium plans are as yet so much "mañana". However, I listen to our new owner (on TalkSport today, for example) and I don't hear a guy who will be accepting of our current plight and who genuinely wants to make us a success. I for one am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I certainly won't be writing Everton off as beyond repair... ever.

We are on the rise, we are improving!

That doesn't happen over night.

"All the players mentioned in this article as poor or mediocre were passed good enough to play for Everton by the new manager, even before the season started. So the blame lies with the manager."

So, Steavey, here's a magic wand. What would you have done of YOU'D have taken over when Koeman did?

While you're thinking of an answer, let me comment on some of your post. There are ten players regarded as "poor or mediocre" that are mentioned in posts above and which I can only imagine are the ones you allude to. Ten players. Now, we all witnessed how difficult it proved to be to bring in ANY quality players, and by quality I mean better than we already have, so I'll be interested to hear how you would bring in TEN better players, plus four or five to increase the squad size.

I'll also be interested in hearing how you would offload the likes of Gibson, given an extension to his contract by Martinez, and all the dead wood that you think was "passed good enough to play for Everton by the new manager."

Koeman will have been taking a good look at the squad, both pre-season and since the start, to see just who will avoid the cull. It can't be done in one window. I'll say it again to make sure you understand.... IT CAN'T BE DONE IN ONE WINDOW!

You also say "Yet, Everton fans were under the impression there would be wholesale changes when the new manager took charge." Which Everton fans? I'm an Everton fan, so are my mates. We could all see that there wouldn't be instant wholesale changes. It doesn't work like that.

But I will tell you which Everton fans DID expect instant success, and that's the beauts who were screeching "Top four, Champions League, here we come" and other embarrassing shite as soon as Moshiri got involved. Talk about dickheads...

This will take time. More than one, two windows. We have to get shut of rubbish and bring in top players, just as every other club is going to be doing. Give yer head a wobble and try and think straight, it ain't gonna be easy.

What are those little yellow things?

The latter tipped the chessmen all over the floor when he heard the thunderous noise. My father and all the policemen rushed into the street. There were whole families outside as puzzled as the police were. My father told me that it was not until later that they realised that the alarming noise resulted from Dixie Dean's headed 60th goal.

Would it not be nice if today's supporters could get behind the team with the same passion that their predecessors did on that memorable day, 5th May 1927, instead of criticising this and that player? Just a thought but no offence intended.

I arrived at work this morning and one of my partners asked why I was looking so glum. When I referred to our result, he reminded me that Chelsea tanked his team Man Utd 4-0 a few games back – we all have results like this sometime... didn't Stoke hammer RS 6-1 a while ago?

We are not broken at all – we need improving which is why Martinez was sacked and Koeman hired. Some players will improve and some will be moved on; some will be acquired and some youngsters will come in; and we all must hope that we are one of the handful of clubs where it all clicks together and a true team is formed.

It won't happen overnight and days like Saturday will happen again to some extent and will hurt like hell but we must allow the new regime time to sort this out and put their own ideas together.

Next season will be a better time to form a properly considered opinion, although I thought it was the end of the earth myself when watching on Saturday. We just need to give them time.

That performance on Saturday evening was bad but I have seen us a lot worse in nearly 40 years of watching the Blues. Now that does make me feel old, I just worked it out that it is nearly 40 years since I first stepped foot into Goodison Park to watch Everton v Stoke in the FA Cup 3rd Round in 1977. Oh for a Duncan McKenzie and a Bruce Rioch in our team now!

I don't think any of the players on the pitch on Saturday night would feature in my Worst Everton XI of the last 40 years. The problem these days is the amount of money in the game: if we sign a £20 million player, the nouveau riche clubs like Man City and Chelsea can go out and sign three or four £20 million players...

Leicester last season was a fluke; it's reverted back to type this season, the best we can realistically hope for with the current squad is the 'Best of the Rest'.

There is not a winner amongst them. That really is the whole top and bottom of it.

you say you have been following Everton since 1967 but then go on to say you are not a proper fan which is patently obvious from your post.

I think there has been a massive overreaction to getting a hammering on Saturday – something that happened to Chelsea about a month ago by a team in joint 6th with us.

Koeman has been in the job for a couple of months and Moshiri, unlike Bill, has come out to face the media today and say "We will have a grand new stadium" and "Koeman will be backed with whatever players he wants to bring in".

Now if Kenwright had uttered those words, I wouldn't have believed it, but Moshiri is a totally different kettle of fish.

So I would implore all blues to get behind the team and the manager, just like the other shower got behind Klopp when he first came.

You might be pleasantly surprised with the future.

No – he looked at the squad and kept the best of a bad lot, to do a short-term job, knowing that upgrading to better players in each position was unlikely so soon. He made them fitter and more organised, for the most part, and brought in a few players, which has all partially clicked together to secure a decent first quarter.

To unpick the Chelsea result is a waste of time, as it is clear what the difference is. Fitness and class. Chelsea's players were not only fitter, they were faster and stronger. Add to this the class, and the result is almost a foregone conclusion. Look at the RS now. They are fitter than butcher's dogs and against the opposition, they outwork them, then outplay them. That's what Chelsea did to us.

Take a deep breath, keep your head and remember that Koeman is using another man's tools. When he gets his own, we will see the difference.

"So, Steavey, here's a magic wand. What would you have done of YOU'D have taken over when Koeman did?"

To keep a promise with Everton fans of a top 4 finish, do you or Koeman believe for one minute the same squad of players who played under Martinez are going to accomplish?

That's the problem with any manager who takes over Everton – the expectations are so high, as previous league winners on at least 7 occasions, the last 2 nearly 30 years ago.

Koeman may have been all right for Southampton with their limited expectations, who have never won the Premier League or Division 1 even before that.

But when Koeman hit the ground running at Everton, he should have been warned not to risk any hopes of not accomplishing top 4 by sticking with the same set of players. Yet, he did. What is most surprising, Duncan Ferguson does not appear to have told him the frustration Everton fans felt for most of the team last season. But they are still carrying on frustrating Everton fans.

One thing I will challenge here, however, is the preposterous notion that Kenwright's illness was somehow the stuff of convenient rumour and propaganda. Anyone can see how bloated he was a few months ago, said to be from steroids treating whatever was seriously ailing him.

And it was serious – clearly not "at-death's-door serious" as the legendary Goodison rumour mill suggested he was at times earlier this year. But there was a time when he was finally able to get to games where he was visibly frail (the cup semi-final comes to mind) and having to steady himself on the railings in front of his seat even while sitting.

Harbour your mistrust in him and doubts over what he says if you want to but I find the assertion that his illness is some product of a nefarious effort to deceive fans rather disgusting.

I am no Kenwright apologist but thank you for that touch of humanity.

Barkley, Mirallas, Deulofeu... I'd happily see the back of them all. Bolasie is more of the same to be honest. You don't know what you're going to get.

However, we also lack character, aggression and physicality. Gana has shown up how soft we are centrally. We really need to do Gareth Barry a favour and give him less football. There are no legs, energy or heart in the middle of the park. No-one who can get on it and dictate the tempo.

I also think there may be one or two bad apples in that squad. I do wonder how much sway our Belgian lads have, for example...

For example, look at Chelsea last season. They were BLOODY AWFUL. Now, they're arguably the form team, and we know who the other one is (in Premier League terms at least).

Where there's money, there's hope. But it's not a 1- or 2-year project. We have to hope – and believe – that those in charge can make enough progress, and quickly enough, to keep Koeman and build a succession plan for when he does go, whereby we avoid continually backsliding.

I don't think we can really judge until Moshiri & Koeman have two full seasons under their belts, and even then, I doubt we will have actually won any silverware by that time, except maybe a domestic cup with some luck.

That said, the thread is way OTT as well. We are not beyond repair but unfortunately for Mr Mosh/Dosh we really do need to spend and spend big asap, and that's just to remain credible as a destination NEXT summer.

All the talk of Man Utd's sick, lame and listed has really pissed me off but, if we're really to sign someone else's cast-offs, what about Fabregas?

Yes I know he'd have to look hard to find similarities between Belgravia and Birkenhead but just maybe our Mosh, with his NW Hollywood vision, allied to the ruthlessness of our Ron in desperate need of a midfield general, would be enough to attract him, one of the finest Premier League footballers less than 30 years old and obviously way out of (admittedly worrying) favour by his current employer?

There's many problems of course and much room for improvement but this piece sounds like over-reacting, knee-jerk whinge to me.

I find it amazing that whilst Roberto was quickly removed (rightly so – as manager, the buck stopped with him) the same players who obviously didn't perform in the latter half of last season, and I mean most of them, are still being applauded on to the pitch by long-suffering supporters. The same supporters, and I was one of them, who considered them to be the best squad since the '80s. I want them out as well, and the sooner the better.

But, as many have pointed out above, we don't have the pull nor the dosh to buy a complete new eleven overnight and it will take Koeman time. Of the established players we have now, only Lukaku would attract a top six team with ambition and I'm not even convinced that Lukaku suits Koeman's plans.

If I was my 15-year-old self in this age, there would not be a single blue shirted poster on my bedroom wall. My "heroes" have all got bloody big Camel Laird feet of clay!

I thought it was pretty clear that my opinion of the merits of the current squad was that they were just not good enough.

"The same squad of players who played under Martinez" is what you wrote. So, I DID ask you how you thought Koeman could usher that shower out of the door whilst simultaneously replacing them with better players. It can't be done IN ONE WINDOW. Or even two.

Moshiri, possibly after reading your post, went into some detail as to how we'd tried to bring in players but the draw of Champions League Football and the close proximity to Harvey Nics in London for his missus weekly clothes shop meant that the Legion Etrangere contingent wouldn't consider us even if we matched all the pay, conditions etc that Arsenal or Spurs offered.

And that is part of the problem. Location. London to some foreigners is all that matters unless you spunk silly money (Man City) or have the "Man Utd" draw, we will struggle to compete. Especially now that Stoke, WBA, West Ham and others have money to burn.

"Risk any hopes of not accomplishing top 4 by sticking with the same set of players. Yet, he did. " See above. What else could he realistically do?

"Koeman may have been all right for Southampton with their limited expectations,"

I think you'll find that Koeman did a terrific job after Southampton had suffered their annual fire sale of their best players, usually to the RS but Spurs will always help out if needed. Do not underestimate the job he did there.

"Takes over Everton as manager, the expectations are so high."

Unrealistically high is what you should have written. And you can't blame Koeman for the silly "top four" shrieks the minute he's got his feet under his desk or surveys the collection of has-beens, never-have-beens, sick-notes and egos that he inherited from Roberto Bellendino .

Now, where are those little yellow things?

"I find the assertion that (BK's) illness is some product of a nefarious effort to deceive fans rather disgusting."

Like Brent, I am no BK apologist, but this claim in the opening post was a particularly obnoxious one in as cruddy a toilet piece I have ever read on TW.

Well done for calling the author out.

Yes, hindsight and all that, but the fact remains that we owned Mustafi, and Moyes wouldn't give him a game... and the rest is history.

That hope has began to disappear, not just because of the thrashing by Chelsea, but because of so many inept performances by players who were rejected by Everton fans last season.

You point out that Koeman just could not rid Everton of these players. Yet Koeman already has shown Niasse the door, also Rodriguez, and Ledson has gone to Oxford. Garbutt is out on loan at Wigan. Grant is at Ipswich. Galloway at WBA.

So it is easy to move players on when they are not needed. So if the squad is playing badly as a whole this is down to Koeman, because he could have brought new players in, while moving players on, either on loan or sold.

"So it is easy to move players on when they are not needed."
Really? Do you think Holby City regular Gibson would still be trousering his thousands if it was easy to get rid of him? No, I think you'll find he'll sit quietly at home counting his money until his contract runs out. Just like Kone, Besic, Cleverley, it will not be easy to rid ourselves of these squad players.

Furthermore, I think you'll also find that Niasse is still on the the books until we can find someone soft enough to take him off our hands.

As for the young lads on loan, Galloway can't get in WBA's side, Garbutt is proving a disappointment, and Rodriguez may well be gone at the end of the season. We shall have to wait and see.

Even if, as you claim, it's "easy to move players on", that doesn't explain how we'll be able to bring in ten new quality players to take their places. Enlighten me, please.

And I wouldn't get carried away with the Norwich result, a team who were already relegated and who didn't give a flying one about the result. Okay, it was nice to see Pennington, Dowell and Davies get game time but it was a nothing game, played on a tsunami of relief after Martinez had been shown the door.

I've said before that the Chelsea result may well do us good, in a peculiar way; it'll bring some people back down to Earth...

"Have I ever witnessed so many (disappointing) players (as) in the current Everton squad"

Is this the squad that was heralded as the best since the 1980s when Koeman took over?

Is this the squad that was heralded as the best since the 1980s when Koeman took over?

That was over 3 years ago, and a lot has changed. Stones has gone to Man City, Jagielka and Baines are 3 years older, and towards their mid-30s. Barkley has not developed. Coleman is not the same player as 3 seasons back. Barry is 36 years of age. There is not much else left in the squad of 3 years ago to herald a new beginning.

Anyone who knew anything about anything was was calling it for the bollocks it was. It started three seasons ago but was still the popular go-to cliche even in the last third of last season.

Okay, all teams in the top flight want to stay there and finish as high as possible and others with huge financial investment want a good return on their money by reaching the Champions League but the rest may not be considered failures as Liverpool were last season.

Shockingly they have started like a house on fire this season and this guy Klopp seems to be getting it right although a long way to go. We know Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool have money to burn which helps bring in a quality in depth squad.

Everton don't have that squad yet and the jury is still out on Koeman but there are some signs that things may change despite the shellacking at the hands of an in form Chelsea.

We shall see in January, after Koeman's first 4 months, what he has learnt about the players he has and if he is ready to bring in more quality with the Moshiri investment. I believe he has some excellent youngsters to call upon such as Holgate and Davies along with a few others but certainly some of the current squad have shown a lot of inconsistency already this season and they have to be shown the door in time.

Unlike Leicester last season, getting the right blend takes time and we suffering Evertonians, have been waiting a long time to reach that plateau and it may take at least to the end of this season to make any definitive judgement about Koeman.

But, like it or not, and I like it, they are entitled to some protection under employment law. So, they can't, correctly in my view, be "shipped out", when they are injured or indeed crap. They were offered deals and signed them.

They might like where they live, their kids might like their school, fuck me, some of them might be human. I suspect my own employer might like to have shipped me out some time ago. They can't and neither can our club do the same to players they thought worthy of insane deals.

Chris Williams has responded with more clarity than I could muster. Well said, Chris.

Plus, other posts on TW are busy telling us how well Liverpool are doing. Well, only 18 months ago they lost 6-1 to Stoke, and they were in dire need (apparently) of rebuilding. So let's get some sensible perspective.

All I can say is that if a beating by a top side (and which football team doesn't get a twatting occasionally?) wobbles your collies then you need to grow a pair. A season following Accrington Stanley would make you appreciate how lucky you really are.