Ross for sale but not Rom?

During the past three years we the fans have been waiting for the form Barkley is now showing under the guidance of a former world class player and very good manager. I don't know what salary Barkley has been offered but it must be a significant pay rise.

Lukaku will go if the price is right. He has two years left on his contract. We could keep him and take 㿅 million next season. Both players have played well at home this season. Away from home they both lack that game changing play to get three points. Koeman is being realistic​ that Barkley cannot leave on a free.

I'm an old romantic really. I would love Ross to sign a new contract after the club rewarding him four years ago with a large pay rise. The club have seen his most consistent season and it may be time to say goodbye. Well that's modern day football for you. Whatever happens, Everton FC will still be a force under Ronald Koeman.

It's a business and Barkley is well within his rights to negotiate the best deal he can, the threat of sale is always there irrespective of player loyalty... it's business and the club is run as a business; Ross is treating it as a business negotiation.

If we have a view its because we don't see the club as a business, we see it as family. We see it as an honour to be a player, but we also know the board of directors want their pound of flesh and some.

Loyalty is a one-way street now, demanded but not respected, why should we be surprised when players who have a contract with time to run are threatened with sale if they do not comply with the clubs wishes... Blackmail runs both ways.

He knows what's important to the team. Goals. If Ross signs, imo he should be hesitant, he is unlikely to be first choice next season.

Gut feel, just what I think.

I think I'd prefer Ross to sign another contract than buy either of these two. If we signed one of them it would be Sigurdsson – his goals and assists have been very impressive over the last couple of seasons.

If it was my choice I'd like us to have all 3 of them in the squad and have Rooney contributing from attack and midfield positions.

Lukaku is a different kettle of fish having stated openly that he wants to play with a club that has qualified for the Champions League, not play with one that has yet to qualify. He may have read the tea leaves hence his demand for a lower-priced escape clause.

In addition, Ross struggles to impose himself on a game, especially against the top sides.

If we want to be top 4, Ross is not the man, I regret to say.

Before the West Ham game, Bilic was asked if he had any special plans to stop Lukaku and he answered that they had something in mind but most important was stopping the supply to him. They seemed to be helped by our tactics of never having two of the defensive midfielders in West Ham's half.

One player may prove a catalyst but he will still need the other elements to succeed.

Barkley divides opinion. As such one manager might fancy him, whilst another would want to cash in. How many games does he 'win' or even influence? Lukaku is paid to score goals and he does just that.

But all players have their price, no matter where they were born or who they supported as a kid. For all the chest thumping Barkley knows that as well so don't doubt that his negotiations will be about how much? Champions league? rather than "I'm an Evertonian and all I want to do is play for the blues".

We also have to realise Everton's stature. Consider the likes of Juventus 'losing' Pogba, Atletico possibly 'losing' Griezman to Man Utd and so on. Both much bigger clubs than Everton and doing nothing more than cashing in on saleable assets and re-investing the funds generated into the team.

Pure business. That's just the way it is.

In this day and age you cannot afford to wait around. The top six teams in the league currently have better squads and better resources than us. They will constantly be improving. It looks like they will again next season and a team like Southampton for example may kick on next season and challenge us for 7th.

If a Sigurdsson or a Van Dijk will do more for the squad in the next two or three seasons than Barkley or Jagielka in their respective positions then they are the players to have. Sentiment cannot be allowed to come in to it.

They're good, but they're not great. They could be (they've both had games where each was the best player on the pitch), but they're not consistent enough. Funny thing though is that they fall short for completely different reasons;

Ross – because sometimes he tries too hard.

Rom – because at times he doesn't try at all.

People talk about the talent and skill Barkley has but when is the last time...

He looked really dangerous to the opposition and took the game by the scruff of the neck and took the ball on and ran with it like he did in Martinez first season?
When does he ever shoot from distance?
When does he ever look like winning a header in the opposition's penalty box?
Does he look like scoring six or seven goals inside the penalty area?
Is he a dead-ball specialist?

For me you could replace Barkley, I'm reluctant only because I wanted him to truly succeed at Everton but it doesn't look like getting any better than it is.

But you could replace him with a midfielder that does what Barkley does but maybe has more strings to their bow like scoring more, being bolder on the ball and trying things, being in the box more.

Selling Lukaku you would have to replace pace, power goals with left foot, right foot and head.

For me, Lukaku will go, but we will miss him more than Barkley if he went – that's pretty obvious.

Seriously, if we're talking of £ 20m+ and if he's generally rated at at least Everton's level, then who of that standard is going to buy him?

We might have more money, but it will be a challenge to attract top-notch players. I'd like to keep them both and strengthen the squad. The best help for Ross would be to learn from real quality midfielder, day-in & day-out.

He was hyped up too much and, although he has improved this season, under Koeman, he still has the annoying tendency to hold onto the ball for too long, and like so many players with lots of ability, he doesn't give the pass early enough because he is always hoping that he might unpick the defence on his own.

He fails to score enough goals because opponents know how to deal with him. If you back off, and pack the midfield he runs out of options and plays it square. If he chances his arm, he usually runs across the edge of the box looking to find a half-yard for a shot.

He is much more effective on the break, which is why he gets most of his goals after the team are ahead at home and the away side have had to come out, leaving gaps behind. He fails to score or create much against the big teams with better defenders.

Rom suffers from similar problems, often getting his goals later in games when defences are tiring, or teams are forced to attack, leaving space. I would have no problem with us selling Barkley, as long as we brought in the likes of Sigvardson to replace him.

Rom simply must not be sold. He is top scorer in the Premier League and is improving his game in a team in seventh place. We would have to share the goals throughout the side to make up for his loss, which would mean us playing better, more imaginative football. To do this we would need to spend all of the Lukaku money on clever, quick players, which are very thin on the ground.

At Spurs they have Kane, Erikson, Alli, and Son setting each other up. Ross would hit double figures in that team. If we get Sigurdsson, then it must be to play alongside Ross not replace him. We need added creativity, not a like-for-like replacement.

Sigurdsson only has 4 goals from open play this season. He has scored 3 pens and 1 free kick, so he really isn't too far ahead of Ross in the goalscoring department. He has 4 more assists, but Ross plays almost twice as many passes a game as Sigurdsson. We are overly reliant on him.

We have seen how much better he has been with some youth in the team giving him a bit of support. Now I want to see how much better he can be with a classy creative player feeding him in dangerous positions and taking some of the pressure off his shoulders.

I've watched Rom for Belgium play with two of the most arguably creative midfielders in the game in Hazard and De Bruyne – they struggle to find him.

I would sooner watch Barkley play with a striker who is a better all-round player who moves intelligently than I would see us keep Lukaku and have Gylfi Sigurdsson behind him.

Aside from that, I'm sick of Lukaku and his whole transfer circus which he just loves.

Clearly, something needs to be done to sort out the away form, and the root cause is unlikely to be Lukaku and Barkley.

If we want to be a top 4-6 team we need to keep both as Paul says earlier, plus spend 𧴜/150m on other players.

We are seventh this season, which is this squad's level and we will be seventh ish again if we don't improve the general quality of our players. Unfortunately I don't see Lukaku staying and, if that is so, that's going to be an almighty downer for me.

The finances in football, I'm thinking more of players wages, is getting well out of hand. Whether Moshiri and his like will still consider football a good place to put their money in the future is debatable.

The finances in football do seem ridiculous, but I suppose what's ridiculous to us might not be so ridiculous to the businessmen like Moshiri who profit from their investments. I don't know how true this is, but I read that although Man Utd paid about 䀆M for Pogba, their income from having him on their books quickly compensated their payments. Similar could apply to Everton and Lukaku, with Moshiri possibly assessing that the value of keeping him to his current contract could outweigh the loss of potential transfer fee if he went on a free transfer at the end of that contract.

As far as investment is concerned, the value of the players in general goes up so I suppose that's a plus for the investor, although the replacement costs more, so it's swings and roundabouts!

Inside Ross there's a top player, pity we can't give him a confidence transplant.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yeah? I can just see him strolling into the Chelsea and Spurs sides.

People are delusional about Ross 'cause "he's our diamond" an' all that. If he was signed two years ago and Russian, you'd all be saying he was shite.

He's decent at times, but isn't consistent enough, is slow at times and has poor decision making.

Want to finish 7th, Ross is your man. Want a cup and top 4, need someone else. Sell him.

Ross Barkley has NOT ever disparaged the club in any way, he loves the club. But the club sees him as an asset only. As Everton FC the business entity, I can understand the need to cash in an asset if its appropriate. Selling if a deal cannot be reached is good and sensible business. If a deal is reached all well and good.. but lets be clear here, the club is in negotiation to give him a new contract. Not sell. Okay?

Lukaku is different... he has stated he is going and will not sign a contract with Everton, despite the highest wage offer ever given. I cannot see Lukaku changing his mind given that he has been of similar mind for the last few years. Absolutely different set of circumstances.

I for one won't be unhappy to see him go sooner the better to be honest. You can hope Lukaku stays (he won't); you can hope Barkley goes (he won't) its all business.

Ross isn't even close. Sell now and replace with Rooney as a short-term solution.

That's why he starts every game because ''Koeman just doesn't fancy" him.

If we get very good players in that role, Ross is history, unless he finally adds what's missing from his game, thereby becoming consistently very good – not just sometimes good, as has been the case for far too long. Like most of us, I wish it wasn't so.

In order to reach the conclusion that he has said he is leaving, the author (and others of similar deductive powers,) must first have concluded and accepted that Everton are not now close to, and never will be, a Champions League caliber team. Sad really since there is no proof that Rom thinks that way.

As for those still backing Ross as a fountain of creativity, if he could truly do what he is supposed to, create, then why would we have to skip him and play long balls for Lukaku as a target man to trap the ball and lay it off? Isn't this exactly what many claim he cannot do? Ross passes well backwards or sideways but can't seem to tell the difference in the jersey color when trying to do so forwards.

Until Barton's announced suspension, it is arguable whether Ross, this season, was even in the top two midfielders north of London with a last name that begins with "Bar." I include Barry and Barnes in that equation.

The number of league games he's played is directly proportional to the lack of competition for his place. Whoever we spend money on in his position will usurp him. No wonder he's hesitant on signing.

Ross couldn't handle playing in central midfield so was shoved out to right for "free roving role" by the Barkley-loving Koeman. Total vote of confidence that.

For such a vaunted player not once this season has he single-handedly won us a game. He just ain't all that.

Well I guess it was more than a feeling. Thanks for helping me tease that out. 😜

This was ignored in the usual I don't like x or y stuff. But 'smoke and mirrors' is a necessary part of doing business in the transfer market and asking for transparency is naive.

Transparency for us, is transparency for everyone – agents, other clubs and so on. We have been told that Barkley signs or will be sold. That's enough for me and frankly the club has no other choice as running the contract down is too much of a financial risk.

There is little indication that money is the core issue with Barkley, but either way I'm with those who say that in strict market terms, he is more replaceable than Rom, though we may end up having to do both.

I know what Ross and his agent will be thinking. Sign the contract or be sold to fund further signings.

Whatever the collective TW clan think about the merits of either player, you can bet there will be a queue of top clubs at home and abroad wanting to relieve us of both of them. Rom will be more difficult to replace as he does the hardest job of the lot in football – score.

And 𧴜 million is not overpriced if Pogba is worth 䀅 million?

To expect otherwise is naïve.

Information that is in the public domain consists of leaks from agents, spouting of players (often in foreign media), phoney stories from the media, provocations from covetous clubs and, of course, leaks from clubs themselves. Those might be from minor employees "in the know" or unattributable leaks from those higher up the food chain, leaking for the benefit of the club.

What is certain is that few of us know anything about club or player intentions. We can interpret the avalanche of crap in the media and that is worthless.

All we can say about the two players involved is that Lukaku's comments seem to indicate that he wants to play in a club in the Champions League. We won't be doing that next season so, unless he is persuaded that we have the capacity to do so in 2019, and he has the patience to wait, he is likely to move.

Of course, there needs to be a willing buyer, and from Everton's point of view we need a bidding competition. If Costa goes, Chelsea are in the market but Lukaku is not the same type of striker as him. United are unlikely to set out on a Champions League campaign with a squad as meagre as the one they have but Lukaku is not the kind of striker favoured by Mourinho, he is not a Drogba.

The Spaniards are not in the market for that type of player, the Germans won't pay the money. PSG?

I suspect that anything above 㿨m would be a reach.

I do know, however, that he has the 6th highest number of assists in the Premier League so far this season. He can clearly make a difference... Ross not a 'good player'! Deary me.

Yes, Ross frequently frustrates me so much I now have very little hair, having pulled most of it out. But, for the most part, because he is a true Blue, works for the good of the whole team, and genuinely wants to achieve success with the club, I can overlook his weaknesses, of which he certainly has several.

Ross is being asked to create more, score more, and virtually carry the team on his own because of the talent lacking in much of the squad. He needs help in the form of creative assistance in midfield and, most of all, a striker who is mobile and at least makes runs and tries to find space occasionally, rather than the lumbering giant who only tends to wake up when he gets the ball. For all his faults, one Ross Barkley is worth ten Lumpkaku's and he should be supported through quality acquisitions rather than being castigated.

The latter however needs to do no more than depart in the summer. I will lose no sleep whatsoever over this. Believe me, Lumpkaku, along with his ego, sulking and lack of effort and passion, will not be missed. There are plenty of quality replacement options out there and the quicker the changes are made, the sooner the Blues will start to fly without him.

Everton is a business. In no other business would you have any luck demanding "complete transparency" regarding employee salaries and corporate strategies, yet Gerard demands the club tell us everything that is going on. Paul's description of that as "naive" is appropriate.

This sort of demand also seems to me to be exclusive to footy supporters. Here in the US we're in the middle of the extended circus known as the NFL draft. No fans have been seen on chat boards demanding their team go public with their draft strategies and negotiations... everyone recognizes that it's just not done, that any such disclosure would be competitive suicide. Yet here we have a blog post insisting that Everton should tell us what's going on inside the club's transfer strategy.

Uh, no.

My gut feeling is it comes down to the straightforward rule that an out-and-out goalscorer will always be the biggest asset for a club and therefore the most valuable player to that club.

In fact I had much sympathy and agreement with many of the comments made in response but I feel that the change of its title prevented the article from generating the kind of debate I was trying to provoke, which can be summed up thus: Lukaku has said he wants to go so we need to look to the future and put him on the bench now while we play Calvert-Lewin and Lookman together up front. He won't like that but I for one think that planning forward is more important than one guy's personal aim for the season.

The second point I wanted to see some debate about was lost in speculation as to my naivety. Here's the thing: Barkley has not commented either directly or indirectly about wanting to leave a club he clearly loves and, unlike in the other case, no details have been leaked at all regarding his new contract. Hence my reference to “smoke and mirrors”.

I may not agree personally but if the manager decides to sell and replace him then that is his prerogative. However, it is not naïve to ask simply once the dust has settled that the manager might explain why he felt a new face was necessary. This would make abundantly clear that Barkley did not agitate for a move away. If a decision is made for football reasons, fine, but say so and don't heap the blame on a player who wants to play for Everton.

Oh, and contrary to Mr Wilde's opinion, it would seem that Spurs would be first in line to try to sign him if Everton decide to dispense of his services. Maybe Pocchetino, famous for his man management, is confident he can coax the best out of a young man who obviously thrives as a “confidence player”.

I looked at the first few paragraphs for the theme you seemed to be promoting... without getting sidetracked by your moan regarding: "Why then should the club go to such lengths to make life even more difficult for itself by being so opaque over things it can control – such as giving us real facts about our own players?" Perhaps I should have protected you from the 'naivety' barbs but it does show a common frustration some fans have with the goings on, which most of us recognize must be conducted behind closed doors.

What seemed to surface for me was a direct comparison over what you assumed to be club-driven speculation surrounding the futures of Barkley and Lukaku. Hence the title: Ross for sale but not Rom?

"Perhaps some players “are more equal than others” or is there in fact a hidden agenda to sell one of these two without looking as though the club had much choice in the matter?"

To be honest, I thought we'd enough recent threads on both Barkley and Lukaku and we needed a break, so I was close to pressing 'delete'... but there was at least a hint of a different twist there, and maybe something of interest in the "compare and contrast" angle.

If playing Calvert-Lewin and Lookman together while dropping Lukaku was in fact your main "talking point", I don't think I was alone in missing it, seeing as how it was buried in that penultimate paragraph, under the guise of some hypothetical speech you would deliver to Lukaku, thus straining credibility – and nobody else has commented on it.

You complain about "smoke and mirrors", and say above "it is not naïve to ask simply once the dust has settled that the manager might explain why he felt a new face was necessary." Well, nothing's happened yet beyond Barkley not signing his contract. Koeman has been as clear as day on that issue. Koeman may explain things to your satisfaction or he may not. We all scratch around for the crumbs that drop from the top table...

Not that I expect Ross to be anything like on a par with any of them I call the likes of Zidane, Platini, Cruyff, Gullit and Michael Laudrup the ultimate in the role. As for which foot such genius's favour, who gives a fuck! :)

I just don't think Ross suits the transition game Koeman wants to play. He slows things down (not always his fault), tends to over complicate things and refuses to take shots at goal (which is maddening as we can remember some of his screamers).

Ross, imo, is a fine player but his timid play, poor decision making and lack of clarity at important times of a game can be maddening to both manager and fans alike. The talent is there. He's like a prize bull but he refuses to step up and claim the rosette. If Ross had half the self belief that Rom has then he'd be a world beater.

In that deficiency he's not alone at our club, but there's something always holding him back and I don't see him conquering the self-doubt with us. Will he do so anywhere else? I hope so but fear not.

Most of us will know someone like Ross or have encountered someone like him in life: hugely gifted but almost paralysed by his gifts. It's a bind and a curse and it doesn't mean he can't still be very good when there's no pressure. But that's the point, very good some of the time isn't good enough for Ross and he turns in on himself and tries too hard and when he tries too hard he loses his flair and spontaneity and everything is laboured.

Watching Ronaldo tonight, you see there a man of enormous talent, certainly, but you also see someone with impregnable self-confidence and that's what sets him and the greats apart. Ross doesn't share the magic.

Hypothetically, assume Everton arescouting an attacking mid for the summer who was young (23) from Birmingham and wanted your opinion on him. His listed attributes are he is often timid, slows things down, passes back and sideways more than forwards, plays very little defence, turns the ball over too much, shows poor decision-making, has an ability to score the very occasional screamer from a distance, and who has scored 3 goals all season. I wonder what your recommendation to buy or pass on him would be?

This fascination with players whose love of the club doesn't meet their over-hyped potential amazes me. Move him on and get a real attacking mid to link play and balance the left side of the formation through the midfield. He would never play with Sigurdsson as Gylfi would be playing and Ross would be on the bench, or out of the squad watching.

Ross reminds me more of this boxer:

https://youtu.be/IxWhaFrBz64

England may have the best league in Europe but when they come up against the best of the Spanish, German, Italian and even the French our representatives do not seem to have the quality.

I would be surprised, despite the talk, if Chelsea or Man City would go for him, definitely not Liverpool or Tottenham so it only leaves Man Utd.if they finish 4th or win the Europa.

Keeping him could be an option but that would depend on the players who are brought in. Instead of Rooney I think Mata is a better option if we could get him. Definitely up to the management to be really bold and decisive on their transfer dealings, starting as soon as the window opens.

As far as Barkley goes, how long can you wait for him to improve? After all his poor performances are starting to outweigh his good ones.

That I couldn't remember the last time either just decided to decide the game themselves, as our star players why do they rarely rise above mediocrity and just win it for us. Furthermore Ross was a player who would get me out of his seat, mainly by bringing the ball down exquisitely, and driving on beating 1 or 2 often ending in a shot from distance.

When was the last time Ross got your backside going north? For me I cannot recall. Is that it in a nutshell?

He lacks the continual purpose to be the man, be the man Ross!

Obviously he wouldn't contemplate Liverpool; he doesn't seem a Conte type player so that's Chelsea out, and he won't dislodge the likes of Silva or De Bruyne from the City midfield either.

As for Man Utd, if you believe the papers they are going to have a very expensive summer and will probably look for players of a higher calibre than him. Even if they were to sign him would he get in ahead of Mikhitaryan, Mata and the like? No.

Arsenal? Would he get in over Ozil? No. He's staying put for sure. If he leaves he'll risk being reduced to a bench player elsewhere.

However, I think there might be an answer: for me, he does nothing to justify the free role playmaker position he's had for four full seasons but I think he could be given a defined disciplined role wide on the right with strict instructions to get up and down in a role similar to that Beckham had at Manchester United. Look at the quality cross to Rom against Leicester – that's what he's capable of.

A good manager should manage him correctly & utilise his undoubted talent for the benefit of the team instead of indulging him as a brainless No 10. All is not lost... yet.

Ross, on the other hand, will not add anything much to get us into the top four. Simple logic... Mr Unrealiable.