Everton still paying most of Koeman's salary

Wednesday, 28 March, 2018 101comments  |  Jump to most recent

Everton are involved in another contract wrangle with an ex-manager with the Liverpool Echo reporting that the club are paying the bulk of Ronald Koeman's salary as head coach of the Netherlands.

Sacked by the Blues last October, Koeman recently took the managerial reins of the Dutch national team but is earning just a fraction of the £6m per year he was paid at Goodison Park.

According to the Echo, Everton negotiated a settlement with Koeman whereby they agreed to pay the difference between what he was earning on Merseyside and any new post he assumed.

With the 54-year-old making around 10% with the Netherlands national team, that equates to almost £5.5m a year until June 2019.

Everton are said to be angered following the revelation of Koeman's current terms and are seeking legal advice. He is picking up similar compensation to the national managers of Northern Ireland, Switzerland and Iceland but half as much as the managed of Austria.

A similar contract row came out of the dismissal of Roberto Martinez two years ago; the Catalan was paid more than £10m in severance after an independent hearing reduced the sum owed from £12m. Martinez was eventually hired as manager of Belgium whom he will oversee at this summer's World Cup in Russia.

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Reader Comments (101)

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Ken Kneale
1 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:31:46
I think I will put my name forward for future vacancies at the club. Seriously, if correct, you just could not make it up.
Phil Walling
2 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:33:53
If it goes on like this, Moshiri will bankrupt rather than make our club great again. 2/3 managers a year cannot a sound club make.

Have to say I had more faith in the pathetic Kenwright than this duffer!

Minik Hansen
3 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:34:22
Here we go... How many will line up to be a manager at Everton after we let go of Allardyce?
Michael Kenrick
4 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:34:59
Are these seemingly crazy contract terms par for the course in this seemingly crazy industry? Or are Everton and our renowned negotiators particularly inept in driving gravy trains out the back end of these mind-bogling managerial agreements?

Or were they simply so desperate in each case that they would agree to any cockamamie severance clause in order to get their man?

Rather ironic that it should be Prentice in The Echo, that great organ of investigative journalism, who is revealing this to the local football world, much to the annoyance of the club.

Robin Cannon
5 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:37:33
@Michael (4) - At least in most other reports about manager firings, the norm seems to be a payoff is 50% of remaining contract value.

How accurate that is, I don't know. But if true, it does seem like we're getting stung for higher payouts that are closer to the full value of remaining contract.

John G Davies
6 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:40:55
Phil, @2

I would place a hefty wager there is a 2- or 3-yearly turnaround of managers in your local after you have regaled with your positive spirit.

Brian Williams
7 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:44:08
If a manager is sacked before the end of his contract, he is entitled to the full 100% amount of the remainder of the contract.
Anton Walsh
8 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:47:10
That's awful. I think we should get Joe Anderson to write a letter to the Dutch and our own police as well as Uefa. That will teach them.
Phil Walling
9 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:48:03
What's to be positive about in Moshiri's muddle of a club, John? We've had the good days (seventhish); we now struggle to reach that level with three managers this season!
Peter Gorman
10 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:48:12
It is this kind of gross largesse that makes me truly astounded that the club cannot attract a high-quality candidate.

We pay enough to put even the remotest cousin through college.

Steve Carse
11 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:48:35
Do managers' contracts ever have a performance-related sacking clause, eg, pay-off reduced by x% if team lingers for a period of time below a stated league position?
Ken Kneale
13 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:53:34
Steve (#11), perhaps you could come up with a formula; how about league position multiplied by football quality divided by length left on contract. The last few frauds in the manager's chair would have ended up paying the club.
Frank Wade
14 Posted 28/03/2018 at 16:58:19
No Manager should be contracted for more than 2 years in the current climate. The average time a manager spends at a club in England was estimated at 1.23 years a few years back and I expect SAF and Wenger will have skewed the calculation. Look at the millions Mourinho makes each time he's sacked. He's just signed a new long term contract at Man Utd, so expect things to go downhill shortly.

The contract given to Martinez when his existing contract still had plenty of time to run was ridiculous. Koeman quite possibly told the Dutch FA in his interview that they can have him for a reduced rate, as he was being paid anyway. I wonder, how much was his predecessor paid?

John Davies
15 Posted 28/03/2018 at 17:08:54
Whilst it's not good for the club, why shouldn't Koeman, Martinez, or even Dick Turpin put their hand out for their contracted pay-off?

Sure it doesn't make them decent or "honest" people but it's the idiots who run our club who have negotiated these contracts with them and enabled them to "steal" away with the club's money.

Someone needs to be asking why the administrative clowns are not down the road along with our former "highway men" managers.
John Keating
16 Posted 28/03/2018 at 17:28:01
Giving Martinez an extended contract after his first season was in itself a grave mistake, however, it was done and the Club suffered the consequences financially after getting rid.

It then defies logic that the next manager would be employed on a contract that did not somewhere include some sort of get out clause.

I have no doubt that, when Allardyce leaves, he will be as happy as Martinez and Koeman and more than likely the next guy will be equally recompensed.

A great industry, a bit like being a banker – no I did say Banker – whereby failure is rewarded. Wish I was as lucky!

Lawrence Green
17 Posted 28/03/2018 at 17:36:12
It's all a bit worrying when our new owner is supposed to be good with money and a fully fledged accountant. Makes you wonder how much we'll eventually be charged for proposed stadium and whether Dan Meis will be able to retire on the back of it.
Dermot Byrne
18 Posted 28/03/2018 at 17:47:41
Brian Williams

"If a manager is sacked before the end of his contract he is entitled to the full 100% amount of the remainder of the contract."

And there lies the frigging insanity Brian.

For us, got job. Was sacked for being shite. No more pay or good reference.

And club hopes for 55,000+ to pay for these con artists.

I would feel so robbed if I still had season ticket. Would leave every game feeling they saw me coming regardless how they played.

Dermot Byrne
19 Posted 28/03/2018 at 17:48:41
Dan could retire now mate.
Paul Tran
20 Posted 28/03/2018 at 17:59:10
I was always thought that if the contract is a problem, the fault usually lies with the employer or its representatives that drew up the contract.

On that basis, the Kenwright regime was at fault for Martinez's contract, the Moshiri regime at fault for Koeman's.

Would it be too simplistic to point to Elstone as a common denominator here?

Craig Walker
21 Posted 28/03/2018 at 17:59:32
Who'd be a football manager eh?

Sign a long-term contract. Fail miserably. Get sacked and receive a 7-figure pay-off. Tour the TV studios pointing out where other managers are going wrong. Wait for another manager to lose their job. Get their job. Repeat the cycle.

Lyndon Lloyd
22 Posted 28/03/2018 at 18:05:36
The terms of Koeman's contract are another indication of Moshiri's pay-what-needs-to-be-paid approach since he took over which, let's face it, is what many fans have been calling for for years even if it's not especially prudent, financially.

It's been reflected in how we've paid over the going rate for the likes of Klaassen, Keane and Sigurdsson and also clearly here in Koeman's salary. We offered him the terms we needed to in order to prise him away from Southampton and to get the new "owner's" man in place. Great when it works out; expensive when it doesn't.

The way his contract/severance was structured at least means we aren't shelling out 100% of what was left on his deal. And I'm sure the hope and expectation was that Koeman would land another role at another club that would pay him a lot more than Holland are so that we would be making up much less of a shortfall. It obviously hasn't worked out that way and I suspect it will be another lesson learned along the way.

Mike Galley
23 Posted 28/03/2018 at 18:09:50
I might be wrong about this, but I'm sure Man Utd put something in Moyes's contract (windows of opportunity if you will) whereas they could sack him and only be liable for part of his contract, if he failed to meet certain targets. Champions League qualification being one.

I know they sacked him before the end of the season, but if this is right I'm sure they'd have used this.

My point being, I wonder if our board thought of this sort of clause in the manager's contract???

Darren Hind
24 Posted 28/03/2018 at 18:20:31
We continue to create some of the richest failures in sport.
Tony Everan
25 Posted 28/03/2018 at 18:33:55
It’s good to see Ronald and his team focussed, motivated and alert to opposition tactics.

It will net him a few more million than if he was an unmotivated, passive, outside observer.

Steve Ferns
26 Posted 28/03/2018 at 18:36:42
Lyndon, you are spot on.

As for Martinez's new contract, who on earth was objecting after that first great season? If you look back on here, we were all worried he was off to manage Barcelona!

All this shows is the roller-coaster nature of football, and how things can sour at great speed.

As for slapping in performance pay clauses, then the manager, ie, Koeman would decline, and get the contract he wants elsewhere and we'd struggle to get the candidate we want. The odds are stacked in the manager's favour as we are the ones who are desperate.

Shane Corcoran
27 Posted 28/03/2018 at 18:50:04
As some others have said, isn't he and all managers entitled to the contract he signed? Is this news?
John G Davies
28 Posted 28/03/2018 at 18:54:44
Mike (#23),

The manager who would sign a contract with them type of clauses would have to be a spineless, self-centred manager.

Eric Paul
29 Posted 28/03/2018 at 19:10:47
If we have to pay them 100%, why not put them on gardening leave for the remainder of their contract so they can't take another job – and hope they resign to take another job.
Paul Birmingham
30 Posted 28/03/2018 at 19:11:19
It's no surprise and it's standard Terms and Conditions in the Premier League. I sense, if true, EFC feel duped and done perhaps by the Dutch FA but Koeman took the job over 5 months after being axed at EFC.

Only the club's lawyers will know and so it may be again at the end of this season, if there's further changes at EFC in the summer.

The move of the business and admin side of the club to the new office at the Liver building will perhaps see the end of an era for many and, if Farhad Moshiri is as shrewd a business man as we are led to believe, then who knows what is around the corner?

There's been so much negative press the last week over the Bramley-Moore Dock project, it would take a brave man to predict what the next 5 months will bring in the history of EFC.

Pat Waine
31 Posted 28/03/2018 at 19:31:05
Koeman wrecked the club and is paid off. Silly, silly world.
Bobby Thomas
32 Posted 28/03/2018 at 19:34:56
We need a top class CEO. Sharpish.
John Boon
33 Posted 28/03/2018 at 19:35:06
This really explains why most managers never complain when they are fired. Their willingness to jump right back into the fire shows that they don't really care about the team they are going to, or the one they have left.

Mark Hughes is an example of this. He has left Stoke and really doesn't care any more about whether they are relegated or not as long as he is able to save Southampton. This demonstrates unmitigated arrogance. Money, money, money is all they care about.

I am not a fan of Alec Ferguson but he will always support and follow Manchester United.That is one of the reasons why Kendall was so successful with Everton. They were, "in his heart and in his soul". Sure he was also well paid,. but he will never be considered as a mercenary.

So few of today's managers give a toss about the team. The many managers we now have from abroad don't come hear for the weather.Once again it is money. This is one of the reasons why I desperately wanted Dave Unsworth to be successful. However he came in at a significantly difficult time and never really had the opportunity to prove himself. I agree that nobody can tell if he would have made the grade as a top class manager.

Allardyce has now taken over and he very obviously came in only for the money. Unfortunately, that alone is the game today. Every one of today's managers would leave their well paid post if another club came along and offered them an big increase in salary. Loyalty and love of club has flown out of the window.

We need to realise that, whoever becomes the next manager for Everton ,will "only" be there for the money. The only exceptions would be if we took on an ex-player who had Everton in his blood. I have absolutely no idea who that could be.

Even if one of today's manager is very successful, as Conte was last season with Chelsea, they are only a blip in that team's history. He is very likely to be gone after this season. He will no longer care whether Chelsea win the league or are relegated.He can then swear his loyalty to the next club willing to give him millions of pounds, euros or dollars. Yes, it doesn't even matter which country or continent he goes to.

I feel very strongly about the managers of today and their complete lack of scruples or loyalty. I have more admiration for those who manage Accrington Stanley, Barrow or Tranmere. However perhaps they are are also only in it for the money despite it being much less. On second thoughts I will direct my genuine admiration to the nameless guy who coaches manages and inspires my Grandson's team of hyper nine-year-olds. His only salary is respect from parents and even they don't always agree with his decisions.

On looking well back, I just wish dashing "Dave Hickson" could have been Everton's manager. Even if had only been for a week. His love of the Toffees would likely be the same as mine. At 78, I would still take over my beloved "Blues" for nothing. All they need to do is call me. Just think how much money they could save. And let's face it – money is everything. CYOB

Joe McMahon
34 Posted 28/03/2018 at 19:48:18
It's sickening, I have targets, objectives and expectations and grief for my measly NHS salary.
Dermot Byrne
35 Posted 28/03/2018 at 19:51:23
That I share with you, Joe. Fucking overpaid tossers.
Matthew Kneale
36 Posted 28/03/2018 at 19:55:51
Same old Everton. Do we ever learn? Not even worth ranting about. Been the same for years. The sooner we have a new chief executive and new direction the better.

With Big Sam, Bobby Brown Shoes and Koeman, that's over £30M in management payoffs. That's scandalous amounts of money and no way to run a business. Will anyone take responsibility? No... because it's Everton!!!

Lenny Kingman
37 Posted 28/03/2018 at 19:57:18
As useless as he was regarding on field matters, it would appear he is Einstein and Isaac Newton rolled into one off-field.

Let a great big nuclear apple fall on his smug Dutch head.

Eugene Ruane
38 Posted 28/03/2018 at 20:08:29
We need to spend some PROPER money!!"

"No not like THAT!

George Cumiskey
39 Posted 28/03/2018 at 20:15:42
I always remember a few years ago Allardyce banging on about who would be a manager and all the stress it brings.

What an arsehole... the man has become a multi-millionaire out of being sacked by clubs.

It's the greatest job that has ever been invented.

Steve Taylor
40 Posted 28/03/2018 at 20:21:59
I dreamt we got Thomas Touchal but he was in a straight jacket.
Des Farren
41 Posted 28/03/2018 at 20:23:24
Works both ways. If Koeman left us during terms of his contract we would be seeking compensation. He is entitled to whatever he gets simply because his contract says so.
Don Alexander
42 Posted 28/03/2018 at 20:23:49
"Cum On You Blues" just about sums up Martinez, Koeman and Kenwright, all having royally rogered us as they have.
Des Farren
43 Posted 28/03/2018 at 20:31:50
Love the way Martinez and Koeman are rubbished on here for... their dress, shoes, use of English, pronunciation etc etc etc while the incumbent is lauded for "straight talking" and being "a safe pair of hands".
Drew Shortis
45 Posted 28/03/2018 at 20:33:32
No point getting our knickers in a twist over this. We gave him the contract and have to honour it. He was not guilty of gross misconduct. If we want to avoid this in future, we will have to write it into the contract. Include performance-related clauses. Problem is, if we're competing with other clubs, we have to offer good terms. It is what it is.

It might take a while to get things right. Man City started off with Mark Hughes and spent a ton of money and didn't get instant success. We need to identify the right guy and back him, but how do you choose the right guy?

In his first season, Martinez looked like he could be the man to take us to the next level. Koeman came in with a good record and did well in season one. We could get this Fonseca feller in after his exploits with Shaktar and he could be Bobby Mk II or the next Pocheti no. It's impossible to predict the future. Alex Ferguson had a shaky start to his Man Utd career, but with a bit of patience he excelled.

Allardyce has done his job, getting us out of the mire, but he clearly isn't the guy to drive us forward, and we're going to have to pay him for a year's work he will not do.

I don't know the answer, but whoever comes in should have a long-term strategy and be given enough time to get things working. If we keep chopping and changing, it's going to end up a mess.

Where do we find someone who can spend big money wisely, but also pick up rough diamonds and incorporate youth products? Someone who can install a winning culture, build a solid defence, play entertaining football, not be constantly linked to a move to a bigger club? Someone with a long-term strategy, but who can also hit the ground running? Someone positive, but not full of bullshit. Someone who can admit when they get things wrong, but not alienate our best players.

Not a lot to ask for ;)

Stephen Williams
46 Posted 28/03/2018 at 21:24:27
Unbelievable!!

No, not that Koeman is being paid what he is contractually entitled to receive, but why so many on here think getting paid what was legally and freely agreed is so wrong.

When Martinez was sacked, most of us were critical that the club paid out the majority of his unexpired contract without forcing him to mitigate his losses. Here the club do just that by only paying the difference between his old and new salary and still people complain! As I say, unbelievable.

The real story here is not that the club is paying the difference, but more that he appears to have mitigated only c. £600k of his contracted £6m a year salary. Smells fishy to me and I'm sure the club are keen to investigate if there's some additional salary or bonus payable by the Dutch FA after the end of Koeman's mitigation period.

Bill Gienapp
47 Posted 28/03/2018 at 21:28:48
As Lyndon suggested, the stipulation isn't really that moronic... it just happened to blow up in the club's face in the worst possible way.

The odds of Koeman being sacked seemed pretty remote to borderline unthinkable heading into the season (depending on your point of view)... and even if he was, you'd assume his next job would pay a lot more than the apparent peanuts he's getting from Holland (whether they realized they could deliberately give him a lowball deal because Everton would be footing the bill is the real question, and the point of contention, I'd assume).

Ian Bennett
48 Posted 28/03/2018 at 22:13:51
Goes to prove that the next appointment is critical. Another £100m in transfer fees and another £10m commitment on a manager.

If it goes wrong, where does it go from here...?

Phillip Warrington
49 Posted 28/03/2018 at 22:20:46
When you read stuff like this, you just go numb in disbelief. Everton must be the destination for managers and players who need a rest and a payoff to kick-start their new lives. The only place this once great club is going is bankrupt and non-league through receivership.
Chad Schofield
50 Posted 28/03/2018 at 23:48:17
Yep, remember the FA paying Sven to play tennis?

Also fairly sure that clubs have to pay the remainder of a player's contract if they're sold unless they put in a transfer request.

Colin Glassar
51 Posted 28/03/2018 at 23:52:34
Just confirms my belief that Moshiri is a very rich moron. Maybe he should stick to cooking the books for his Russian master and leave football to the experts... right, Billy lad?
Don Alexander
52 Posted 29/03/2018 at 02:05:33
The central point is surely that we fans have paid vast amounts in relation to our incomes to watch/buy "the product" on the pitch as it diminishes in quality from a bog standard level to a mind-numbing level, "our" money having been ludicrously squandered on a plethora of inept signings in the process.

And all the while the players, coaches, management and board, to say the least, Mr Moshiri, are laughing all the way to the bank regardless of performance or result.

When are you, Mr Moshiri, going to do something to recognise and repair this fiasco?

Alan J Thompson
53 Posted 29/03/2018 at 04:43:09
Key Performance Indicators (KPI) and severance pay clauses should be inserted into any contract and I would assume that, if the club can seek compensation if the employee/contractor wants to leave before the contract has been fulfilled then part of that severance should include the right to veto any other employment. Obviously, Everton have not included these and don't seem to be able to ask the Dutch FA for compensation.

It's a long way from the two weeks a year redundancy provided we have been employed for two years that most of us probably have gone through at some time. Gizz a job, lah, I cud do dat.

Peter Knight
54 Posted 29/03/2018 at 04:51:50
What odds can we get that, in the year 2020, Belgium will play Netherlands in the final of the European Championships?
Amit Vithlani
55 Posted 29/03/2018 at 06:43:55
"If it goes on like this, Moshiri will bankrupt rather than make our club great again. Two or three managers a year cannot a sound club make.

Have to say I had more faith in the pathetic Kenwright than this duffer!"

Seeing as it was Kenwright whose decision to extend Martinez's contract cost the club £10m, that is a very odd statement to make.

What's more, Kenwright's decision cost the club, not him personally as he never funded the club himself. Moshiri's decision on Koeman cost himself – as he has been making up shortfalls in Everton's finances (to the tune of a £150m).

I don't see why this is a story. Both managers were under contract and entitled to their compensation. The club fired both at the right time and had to pay a price to get rid.

Could Everton have negotiated a better severance structure? Maybe, but as these contracts are drawn up at the time the manager is hired, not when he is sacked, the whip hand is with the manager.

The more questionable aspect is the size of the salary Everton pay their managers. I do not understand why Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce were made amongst the highest paid managers. It might be because Kenwright set the bar by rewarding Moyes with a fat wage which made him amongst the highest paid in the Premier League. Everyone who followed has demanded the same.

Did I read somewhere that Pochettino is paid less than Allardyce?

Thomas Lennon
56 Posted 29/03/2018 at 06:44:47
"KPI? You haven't done well enough, Mr Koeman, we would like you to accept less money when you go."

"Where is my striker and left back I said I needed all summer? I wasn't in charge of transfers."

"Ohhhh... good point. Okay, how about 10% less if you go now?

"Okay!"

Mike Kehoe
57 Posted 29/03/2018 at 07:20:44
In Viz there is a Top Tips section full of sage advice for the unsure. I think my Top Tip is not to base your attitude to life and work ethos on that of Everton managers.

In my job, I was coldly indifferent, an arrogant aloof elitist who would stride purposely with a serious expression creating the impression of a serious intellectual man with a master plan of pure genius. As such, I would insist those beneath me (basically everybody) sit elsewhere to eat so as not to offend my senses and disturb my golden thought processes.

When my projects failed miserably, I blamed the substandard materials I was somehow expected to fashion, the producers, the environment and hinted at board level incompetence. I dragged the firm to the very edge of bankruptcy and created panic for all concerned with many sleepless nights: the anxiety and fear grew and choked the heavy air.

All I got was a punch in the throat and threats that if I ever tried to work in the industry again I would be prosecuted, no fucking seven-figure settlement... Doesn't seem fair.

Michael Penley
58 Posted 29/03/2018 at 07:29:21
"Unbelievable!!

No, not that Koeman is being paid what he is contractually entitled to receive, but why so many on here think getting paid what was legally and freely agreed is so wrong."

Well... at risk of exposing my lack of credentials in the field of ethics, I would venture to say that it's wrong because he's getting paid an absurd amount of cash in return for doing absolutely nothing. A fair contract is supposed to be quid pro quo – In this case, there's a whole lot of quid but no quo.

Keith Harrison
59 Posted 29/03/2018 at 08:10:51
Koeman, on being interviewed for the Dutch job:

"Why are you the besht man for the job, Ronald?"

"Becaush I'm cheap. Jusht pay me a 100 Guildersh a week, and Everton will pay me the resht"

"Okay, the jobsh yoursh!"

At this rate, we'll be paying Allardyce a huge sum weekly too as the difference between his contract, and shelf stacking at Aldi. Under strict surveillance, of course.

Eddie Dunn
60 Posted 29/03/2018 at 08:31:33
Obviously the trouble is that we can only attract big names by offering more money and longer contracts and in Martinez's case, we panicked thinking he was so good that he might leave for higher things – so we gave him an extension.

If you are Man Utd, perhaps you can insist on performance related clauses, but at Everton we will just be grateful to land the likes of Fonseca.
The cesspool of the Premier League is awash with "easy" money gleaned from TV revenue. All the clubs in the lower half of the Premier League, the Championship and Europe know that English clubs are cash cows in the parlour.

We have seen what the desperation of possible relegation looks like, in our latest managerial incumbent. Ditto the over-generous severance pay outs to the last two. Again, desperation.

History will surely repeat itself in the summer.

Tony Everan
61 Posted 29/03/2018 at 11:02:50
Watching Holland play under his management, at £½M per season, they are still being well ripped off.
Damian Wilde
62 Posted 29/03/2018 at 11:04:41
Okay, we can debate the 'should he be getting paid after failing'? I think not, but it's in his contract.

The main point here is that Holland are clearly paying him less because they know we'll make up the shortfall. Half a mill a year? Absolute joke. What would he be on if he wasn't getting wedge from us, two million? So the Dutch FA are stiffing us to the tune of over a million a year. Disgraceful.

Guy's a disgrace. What other area of work would you continue getting paid for messing up and get two wages at the same time? Wouldn't happen in my profession!

And now we might have to pay off that idiot, Allardyce!

Phil Walling
63 Posted 29/03/2018 at 11:22:15
Paul Tran @20. I suspect Elstone's job is just to get the signature on the contract after Moshiri's guys agree the money.

The more we learn about the Moshiri Mob, the more it's clear that football-wise they are about as bright as Lerner and Short. And look what happened to their teams after they threw money at players and managers galore!

Lewis Barclay
64 Posted 29/03/2018 at 13:08:17
In fairness, that's probably better value than Big Sam's wages.
Kristian Boyce
65 Posted 29/03/2018 at 13:37:27
Not to sound like Joe Anderson, but I'm glad that the lawyers are looking into this for possible fraud-like activities from the Dutch FA and Koeman's agent.

While Koeman is due compensation from his sacking, the Dutch have purposely paid him way below the going rate of a supposed top international team. If his salary is no way near his predecessor and also comparable to other international managers, then I think we might have a case.

It would have been interesting if he got another Premier League job as surely that would have been a conflict of interest if we were still paying him while playing against him.

Barry McNally
66 Posted 29/03/2018 at 13:56:15
The Dutch can't even 'Go Dutch', Koeman and the Dutch FA are well met.
Dave Evans
67 Posted 29/03/2018 at 14:02:39
Phil (#63), We have just spent £44 million pounds in a winter window on Walcott and Tosun. Mistakes have been made but you are slagging off Moshiri as if it is your money.

We should ditch him and get someone without a pot to piss in?

Steve Taylor
68 Posted 29/03/2018 at 14:13:22
Kristian Boyce. Why can't the Club pay the agreed severance pay to ex-Managers? It looks more like a cash flow than a legal problem, paying instalments is easier to manage.

Why for instance would Usmanov's USM pay £5m a year to sponsor a training ground which is out of the way and very rarely in the news? Everything at Finch Farm belongs to the Council (or rather the people of Liverpool). The only sensible answer is that it was a way of getting cash into the Club. The suspicion must be that even this relatively small amount must have been needed, unless several years sponsorship were paid in advance.

ps: This is all conjecture of course.

Alasdair Mackay
69 Posted 29/03/2018 at 14:15:37
Can anyone think of a good thing about Holland when it comes to Everton's recent history?

Heitinga disappointed, Van der Meyde got high and crashed his Ferrari into a stripper, Drenthe did his best impression of Van der Meyde. Koeman was the worst manager in the history of the club and then shafted us on his salary.

At the moment the prospect of Klaassen maybe not being complete turd by next season represents our most successful foray into the land of Gullit, Bergkamp, Van der Sar and Cruyff.

Ian Fisher
70 Posted 29/03/2018 at 14:30:50
Maybe we should get Philip Green back to advise the board on the next manager's contract.

They'd probably end their tenure owing Everton their entire salary back.

John Raftery
71 Posted 29/03/2018 at 14:49:17
Ian (48), You have neatly summarised the Board's, or more precisely, Moshiri's dilemma. That is why I believe they/he will opt for a safety-first approach by sticking with Allardyce for at least the rest of his contract.

Nobody really knows how effective some of the fancy foreign names being bandied around would be in the Premier League. Bringing any of them in to manage a squad riddled with instability increases the risk of failure.

Lawrence Green
72 Posted 29/03/2018 at 14:53:08
John (#71),

Keeping Allardyce past the last game of the season risks alienating a large proportion of the fan-base and, if that proves to be the case, I wouldn't expect to see too many 'house full' signs at Goodison Park next season – a dilemma indeed.

Paul Tran
73 Posted 29/03/2018 at 15:49:21
Phil, you're probably right about Elstone.

Regarding Lerner and Short, I think they both realised how much they'd have to spend to achieve anything and decided to pull out.

Name me any new-money owners who've got it right first time. That's not an excuse – that's how it's gone elsewhere.

If I was Moshiri, I'd be looking at how Koeman & Walsh spent money and how Allardyce & Walsh have spent money. Something for him to learn there when he recruits the next one.

Jay Harris
74 Posted 29/03/2018 at 17:16:43
It is typical in manager severance to offer 50% of the contract for immediate severance and if this isn't accepted put them on gardening leave whereby they cannot take another job without breaking their contract.

However as some posters have said it is a complete nonsense that performance criteria are not built into these absurd salaries.

In other industries managers are penalised for failure but in football they are rewarded with a massive payoff and another job in the near future.

Jerome Shields
75 Posted 29/03/2018 at 18:27:32
Phil (#2). Like you, I am concerned that Moshiri will get sick of getting ripped off. He has been ripped off by Koeman and Allardyce, quite a few of the backroom staff, and most of the first-team squad.
Matthew Williams
76 Posted 29/03/2018 at 18:41:39
Sadly, ever since 1992 and the start of the Premier League, greed has crippled our game.

Moshiri must have more money than sense... Koeman's managerial record wasn't great to begin with but still he went after him.

Sigh... try the Championship next time, Moshiri, because sometimes less is more!!!

Phil Walling
77 Posted 29/03/2018 at 18:45:47
Dave @ 67. In what ways is our Club better than it used to be? The team? The management? The infrastructure? Sure we don't owe as much to the banks – only to those shadowy people for whom our 'owner' operates.

All sense has been removed from how the Club operates and there will clearly be a price to pay.

Paul Tran
78 Posted 29/03/2018 at 19:05:20
Moshiri hasn't been ripped off by anyone. He approved a contract because, as Lyndon pointed out, he was desperate to get 'his man'. He then sacked Koeman, waved the cash at Watford, who declined. Again desperate, he overlooked Unsworth and thought he had to bring Allardyce to 'keep us up'. He spurned Allardyce and then went back to him. He offered him a contract till the end of the season, Allardyce smelt a rat and insisted on 18 months to cover himself.

Moshiri got it wrong with Koeman. I don't think he needed to hire Allardyce, but Moshiri clearly did. I can't see how he was ripped off, by anyone else.

For years we were stagnant, made no attempts to evolve as a club or business. We got comfortable with mediocrity and called it success. I read many lazy arguments that all we needed was money. Now we're actually trying to compete, mistakes are inevitable, like they were at City, Lpool and Spurs. Remember that many on here laughed at those clubs as they bought many underachieving players and turned over managers. They've learnt from their mistakes, we're not laughing anymore. We're playing catch up. But we've got to start getting things right.

John G Davies
79 Posted 29/03/2018 at 19:16:40
Phil,

That's a cracker.
Even by your usual standard.

"shadowy people" haha

Paul Tran
80 Posted 29/03/2018 at 19:22:45
But are they as shadowy as Philip Green?
Dermot Byrne
81 Posted 29/03/2018 at 19:25:10
Whilst I may understand Phil and his "shadowy people", I actually think the involvement of LCC and the oversight and auditing of their actions may well may make this less shadowy than if it was just private money involved.

How ironic that could be in our City.

Phil Walling
82 Posted 29/03/2018 at 19:26:12
Yes, John. I suppose that with his girth, shadowy is a bit of a misnomer for Usmanov !
John G Davies
83 Posted 29/03/2018 at 19:35:46
Double check your ouzo in the local tonight Phil.
Phil Walling
84 Posted 29/03/2018 at 19:45:30
Given the nationality of most of my neighbours, I'm paying particular attention to the door knobs at present!
Paul Tran
85 Posted 29/03/2018 at 19:58:38
No more 'tea' for Phil!
Guy Hastings
87 Posted 29/03/2018 at 20:08:09
Tom Ince's mum looks a good bet to replace Walsh. Only got £700,000 for scouting and probably did as good a job.
Jeff Armstrong
88 Posted 29/03/2018 at 22:03:41
Guy, can you quantify the "Tom Ince's mum" comment please?

As someone not quite up with the shadowy side of the game, I'm a little bemused, was it a tax dodging scheme by the Ince clan? Do HRMC know?

Jerome Shields
89 Posted 29/03/2018 at 22:41:48
Paul (78), I think in hindsight he was ripped off, because he had the money and no experience. You are right that a glass ceiling on Everton performance was allowed. The problem is that the money involved is big and Moshiri will be more cautious and won't be as keen to spend. Koeman's contract shows how naive Moshiri has been, a the lack of proper professional advice from within Everton was nonexistent.
Phil Lewis
90 Posted 29/03/2018 at 23:19:01
It really is unbelievable that we find ourselves in this predicament. How on Earth does a club of our magnitude fail to read the small print? Were our financial whizz kids actually aware of this clause in Koeman's contract but proceeded regardless? A young couple buying their first car or home could be forgiven through ignorance, for making costly errors of financial judgement.

It is inconceivable that those at the helm of EFC are just as guilty. Will the club please name the culprit or culprits responsible for this latest laughable situation? I believe the fans deserve an explanation and a naming of who is directly responsible. Surely Moshiri has advisors?

David Barks
91 Posted 30/03/2018 at 00:35:23
Phil,

What are you talking about? Fine print? Everton wrote the contract, not Koeman. You’re asking who is responsible, it’s us. The employer drafts the contract, not the employee.

Don Alexander
92 Posted 30/03/2018 at 01:24:21
Moshiri seems to have been the driving force to sign Koeman according to many of us. If so, he's learned a hard lesson, via compensation to Koeman, and maybe Allardyce very soon, Allardyce being merely a part of the astronomic cost of the Koeman appointment. If he was the driving force, he clearly isn't too fussed about Kenwright's opinion though, and who can blame him after Kenwright devised a contract for "What a Manager" Martinez that cost Moshiri's Everton another £10mill to extract us from?

So who chooses the next manager? Any cock-up on that appointment may just forever condemn us to another 20 years or more as also-rans in any rare "good" season for us, as per the Kenwright decades. Mid-table obscurity or far worse are the alternative outcomes. Get it right and we may just threaten the top four places in a few years time, but a huge change is necessary at Finch Farm to achieve that.

So, no pressure, Mr Moshri, but who are you going to trust to make the next manager a person fit for purpose? You are by definition a "Lerner" as an outright owner, I just hope you don't come up "Short", again, for all our sakes!!!

Paul Tran
93 Posted 30/03/2018 at 10:44:52
Next 20 years as also-rans?

Off the top of my head, Spurs appointed Redknapp, Villas Boas, Sherwood before they settled on Pochettino. Man City have been through Hughes, Mankini, Pellegrino before Guardiola. Liverpool went through Woy and Rogers before Klopp.

They took decisions, made mistakes and have learnt. We're just starting...

Nick Armitage
94 Posted 30/03/2018 at 21:33:34
Koeman is entitled to it. Maybe the club should alter the terms for the next manager. If you get us into Champions League you get a £40m Sunseeker. If you go down a position, you get nothing.
Rudi Coote
95 Posted 31/03/2018 at 08:33:19
Not a bad career is it? Get paid a kings ransom for doing a bad job get sacked huge pay off ( entitled)... then get another well paid position for which you are not capable of doing sacked and on it goes.
Hywel Owen
96 Posted 31/03/2018 at 10:37:46
It's a plain and simple fact that giving someone a contract for a fixed time means you have to pay on that contract if you dispense with that person's services in the meantime. I cannot see why that should come as a surprise to anybody.
Roman Sidey
97 Posted 02/04/2018 at 15:18:03
Every week and every story that comes out of the club gives me a little more reason to think sacking Koeman was the wrong decision (and I've admitted many times I supported it at the time). The board, Walsh and the players are as much to blame for early season problems as Koeman was, but sacking the manager is just seen as the thing to do.
Jay Harris
98 Posted 02/04/2018 at 15:28:38
Roman,

My take on it was that Koeman's position became untenable.

I have the feeling that Kenwright's constant interference, bringing Rooney back and not replacing Lukaku, caused Koeman to down tools .

Stephen Davies
99 Posted 02/04/2018 at 15:29:03
Hywel (#96).

Yes, I agree with that... I wonder if Moyes has still been receiving a salary from Man Utd for the last 4 years?

Tony Marsh
100 Posted 02/04/2018 at 15:36:05
Roman @ 97

Koeman ruined this club with his arrogance and stubborn approach. Total waste of space. We would be in even more shit if Ronald had stayed here...

If the Dopey Dutchman had his way, we would now be lumbered with Giroud and the utterly useless Moussa Sissoko to add to Klaassen, Sandro, Keane, Williams, Bolasie and the rest of the crap he squandered our money on.

Roman Sidey
101 Posted 02/04/2018 at 16:58:38
Jay, I agree. It's pretty easy to believe that Koeman's thoughts were along the lines of "You've tempted me away from a good job, paid me a lot of money, and now you're making decisions for me and giving me tools I don't need and taking away the tools I do."

I tend never to look at things as black-and-white, and the managerial situation at Everton is definitely as grey as it's been in a long time. I was somewhat in favour of Koeman being sacked at the time, but in no way wanted Allardyce but was relieved Kenwright hadn't gotten Moyes back. I also didn't think Unsworth earned the job long term but held no animosity toward him at all either. Six months later, I think Koeman was not the catalyst of the problem at all.

Roman Sidey
102 Posted 02/04/2018 at 17:19:14
Tony, I just think there's a lot more to it than that. I don't think all those signings were purely on Koeman, and to be fair to the players you mentioned, Williams didn't seem as bad in 2016-17 as he does now – and he is truly awful now – and Bolasie was a decent winger before his knee injury.

I do agree we may have been in more shit had Koeman stayed, but like I've said in my response with Jay, I don't think he engineered the situation as much as people think.

Lee Brownlie
103 Posted 03/04/2018 at 07:55:22
So...

'If it turns out you're shit and you can't do the job you're being paid ridiculous amounts to do at Everton... no worries, pal, your money'll not go down just because you were incompetent but we'll make sure whatever someone else offers – should you somehow be offered another such role based on this showing! – we'll top it right up to what we should never have paid you in the first place... and, again, you proved you weren't worth even a fraction of!!!

('Meanwhile a proud footballing nation like Holland I'm sure will inexplicably pop out the woodwork to offer you a job... you know, just like Belgium did with our last total failure of a manager – who's now on an even better, more astronomically crazy, wedge than yourself!!!')...

Pretty sure all this just goes to prove that some people, some clubs or businesses, whatever... = Everton... just can't handle suddenly having money, as they, WE, just have to keep throwing it about like that in itself is somehow going to make everything right in our little corner of the world.. Wrong!!!

We are a deeply sleeping giant with suddenly deep pockets, a team and board who think it's a massive 'result' to now be nothing more than also-rans, and a current dream which amounts to nothing more than having a new, bigger, brighter, bedroom, in the not too distant future!!!

At least Big Sam will almost certainly be getting paid for achieving his #1 remit: making sure we don't go down (but, again, this is also, we all know, just confirming us as also-rans!! Nice.) ...after this though, and when he decides he's bored and wants to 'prove himself' again, what other team will we be massively funding the manager of???

Ralph Basnett
104 Posted 09/04/2018 at 09:14:58
Could we not get the council to pay for him, they seem to want to pay for everything Everton at the moment.

Just a thought like .


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