This artist's rendering is believed to be a placeholder based on a very early design concept
A PDF from last November's consultation over the Blues' proposed new ground at Bramley-Moore Dock showing initial plans for the stadium's layout and architecture was leaked by EvertonArentWe.com last night and reported on nationally by The Mirror.
The document, put together by Dan Meis, the US-based architect tasked with designing the structure and its surrounding features also shows an artist's rendering of a possible design for the 52,000-seater stadium but it is understood that this is not final. (For example: The artist's rendering looks similar to a very early concept design from when a dockside location was first proposed and features a cut-away portion in the north stand that does not appear in the overhead layouts in the PDF.)
The PDF features schematics of the potential stands at Bramley-Moore Dock, including the South Stand which would house the home end, with options provided for safe-standing on the lower terrace together with comparisons to other Premier League stadia.
There is also an overhead plan of the site with plans for a riverside car park for 700 cars and a fans plaza adjacent to Regent Road and the listed hydraulic tower which would remain in the corner of the complex.
Having released the results of the initial consultation of supporters and local residents, Everton plan to canvass fans further this summer over more specific elements of the ground, including its design and the final capacity which remains a source of controversy.
The Liverpool Echo suggest that an investigation into the leak will be undertaken.
An overhead view of Bramley-Moore Dock shows how the stadium would be orientated on the site using the full width available
The home end would be housed in an expansive south stand that could feature safe standing in the lower half
Reader Comments (115)
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2 Posted 16/02/2019 at 08:35:37
3 Posted 16/02/2019 at 08:48:41
4 Posted 16/02/2019 at 09:04:10
I'm trying not to be negative about this but wouldn't a multi-level carpark of that size and positioned riverside completely obstruct the view of the stadium from the river?? This defeats the object of having a unique riverside setting doesn't it?
Like a lot of other amateur architects I always thought a stadium on top of a multi-level car park would be fantastic, why does the pitch have to be at ground level or sea level in this case.
That would solve it, Dan Meis!! Give me a call.
5 Posted 16/02/2019 at 09:05:52
6 Posted 16/02/2019 at 09:10:19
Billy, the images seem to suggest that the car park is not elevated. I'm guessing it's ground floor and then basement levels (under water). So it wouldn't block the view of the stadium.
7 Posted 16/02/2019 at 09:19:10
For the record Dan Meis the appointed architect is probably the best on a global basis at designing sports stadiums.
Can we not celebrate the fact, that despite the doom and gloom happening on the pitch, the club at least seem to have made the right appointment in selecting the right person to design our new waterfront stadium?
I'm sure before a brick is laid, the guy will be back on Merseyside to explain why he chose the design he did and the location.
Let's find a reason to be positive for a change.
8 Posted 16/02/2019 at 09:34:01
Also, the aerial render at the end looks a bit underwhelming compared to Chelsea and Spurs. I hope that's because we choose brick and wood to compliment the location rather than smoked glass and chrome for the London bling.
Love the idea of the wall behind the goal though.
9 Posted 16/02/2019 at 09:37:25
10 Posted 16/02/2019 at 10:00:30
11 Posted 16/02/2019 at 10:01:10
My only concern is the pathway to the car park. How many drunks, or idiots, will be falling into the river after a game?
12 Posted 16/02/2019 at 10:08:55
I for one say “build it, build it now!” Farhad get in the blower to Alisher and get some roubles in, then back on the blower to Chong to get on the blower to Samsung in Seoul as I'd never trust an English firm to build this, just look at the Royal Liverpool Hospital, too much corruption, too little pride in their work.
The Koreans in association with the Germans built us the Mersey Gateway, a truly wonderous feat of engineering, in budget and kinda on time. Now we just need to get Peel on board and get the diggers out.
Once the ground is built and the Usmanov billions are flowing, we can all consign this false new dawn to the dustbin of history and finally put the Moshiri, Usmanov, Arteta, Brands plan for world domination into top gear, it's gonna be sooooo beautiful, uuummhahahahaha.
13 Posted 16/02/2019 at 10:19:55
I would've liked to see brick outside to match up with the tobacco warehouse. Looks great. Hope we can have the standing sections.
14 Posted 16/02/2019 at 10:20:55
A stadium adjacent to the river and the river view of the iconic stadium blocked off by a multi-storey car park ?
This is what it is all about, the magical stadium adjacent to the river. Every pre-match and PR shoot of the stadium will be from the river with the stadium as the iconic backdrop. To even think that there would be a multi-storey car park in the way is utter madness.
Whoever came up with that wheeze shouldn't be trusted to make the tea. Never mind anywhere near a design board.
Here is an idea, build it somewhere else, nearby. Out of the way.
Passenger A on the cruise ship: ''Where is Everton's new iconic world class stadium? I can't see it!''
Passenger B: ''Just over there, if you look closely, you can see the floodlights just behind that multi-storey car park.''
15 Posted 16/02/2019 at 10:44:01
Also, the car park looks way lower than the stadium anyway so it won't obscure the view. Do you think the designers might have considered that aspect? Maybe, just maybe they have thought about it.
Just a thought.
16 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:09:01
It gives a lot more information.
17 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:12:57
I would love to see the Archibald Leitch criss-cross featured somewhere - for me the most obvious nod towards Goodison. The relatively small amount of executive boxes is in all honesty a missed opportunity although I wouldn't advocate for cheese shops like the new White Hart Lane.
Having a reclaimed brick wall behind the goal looks awful if you ask me, but it's just an opinion.
18 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:13:13
I said last week that the second consultation taking place later in the year will be more about explaining why the 52,000 figure has been decided on rather than any plans to change the basic design. I am sure during that second consultation is when both Dan Meiss and the club would have wanted to release these plans, rather than them being leaked now. But they have been leaked and you can't put the genie back in the bottle.
I am sure over the coming days the club will put out a statement saying this is just a draft idea and they are still considering what the stadium capacity will be. I have never understood the need for a second consultation, surely the most important thing was to get approval from people living in the area and local businesses to make sure the planning application would have no objections when they put it to the Council.
The first consultation seems to have been given a massive thumbs up by all the relevant parties, so what the second consultation is for, I have no idea.
I know its being painted as a chance for fans to have their say on the design and capacity. But last year Dan Meiss did workshops with the fans were their views were aired, with most wanting a 60,000 stadium. Made up of seating and safe standing which looks like safe standing is part of the 52,000 capacity design.
This was also reinforced during the first consultation, despite all the information that has been released about the first consultation, I haven't read anything about what capacity the fans wanted during that consultation.
19 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:13:40
'Multi-storey' simply means more than one storey. It may just be two storeys high with the lower one below ground level. If you look at the placeholder picture, the car park is an open-air ground-level park so presumably the 1st level is below ground level. It does not obscure the view of the ground at all.
No architect in their right mind would block off a river view of their own creation with a bloody great car park. For their own reputation and prestige, they would want everyone to see it in all its glory.
20 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:19:10
21 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:50:39
I really hoped the rumours about doing something similar to the Lucas Oil stadium would be true The capacity is mediocre. I'mm not feeling inspired from those pictures. It's just a smaller, less inspiring version of what Spurs are building.
22 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:51:37
Bottom line is, unless the site prep and acquisition costs are half the total costs (which itself would be ridiculous), then this is nowhere near a £500m stadium. Looks like only 30 boxes, unless they have some diddy ones in there (less than practically all Premier League clubs I think), and pretty much standard fayre otherwise.
Given that this site should lend itself to hotel use, you would expect 3-4 times that number of boxes, all convertible to hotel rooms for 365-day usage. With external private boxes (rooms) too. Not to mention a full or sliding roof for concert/arena conversion, and general comfort. No advantage taken of using a slightly sunken pitch in the dock basin, to minimise construction cost and stadium height.
Looks like it would've had to be a completely different orientation for Commonwealth Games conversion too, meaning that the whole site is nowhere near being fully utiised and is not as capacity-restrained as suggested previously. Hopefully, it's not the finished article.
23 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:59:23
24 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:08:49
25 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:10:52
Chill out, people, and don't sweat the stuff that we the fans have no control over. Opinions are fine... but almost entirely negative most of the time on this site. Suddenly remembered why I try not to log on any more.
26 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:17:30
27 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:18:29
It's a near miracle that we are on the brink of getting a waterfront stadium. I have recovered from my knee-jerk reaction to the multi-storey car park and realise it will fit seamlessly into the design.
Only one niggle is when the comparisons are made on the PDF link to the top six clubs capacity-wise, I would like our capacity to be a bit closer to theirs so that there is no meaningful conception of being a smaller club, capacity-wise.
28 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:21:32
It also has the potential for the capacity to be increased to 62,000 if required and so brings us in line with our top opposition, so again good.
52,000 capacity is more than adequate for us now, but who knows... maybe by the time it's built, we will have a team that requires a bigger stadium, let's hope so.
Wouldn't it be great if Moshiri's Russian mate could come fully onboard and make that happen!
29 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:22:53
30 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:29:49
£500 million for 12,000 more seats 30 or so more boxes will condemn us to mid-table as opposed to elevating us to the top table. "Behind before we start" comes to mind.
31 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:37:38
Well said, I fully agree with you. I posted similar sentiment on another thread a few days ago about the continuous negativity on this site. One day we should challenge the site to start a thread where only positive posts are allowed – it would probably remain blank!!
32 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:37:50
33 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:37:52
We need clarification from the club, because if this is the project, I would want to stay at Goodison.
34 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:43:33
I had never imagined the projected image to be the shape as shown, but having said that, it does look quite impressive after you study it for a while.
Loved a lot of the posts from fellow TW'ers, like some have mentioned the under-stadium car park sounds a good idea, but I would imagine the logistics on this have been examined and presumably dismissed, because of practicality and cost.
There is also the pitch factor, "grass not growing on a busy street", seems a suitable analogy, although it is usually proclaimed by the follically challenged, as to their mental capacity.
At least we have had a glimpse of what the Stadium will approximately look like, even though it has been a 'leak', another reason for the dismissed underground car parking possibly.
I hope there is not too much of a delay in investigating the 'leak' as this could slow the process down too. It has certainly piqued interest and been released when skies are greying at Goodison recently.
35 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:48:09
Just hope it's the likes of Man Utd and Man City we'll be entertaining and not Tranmere...
36 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:51:54
There's little on the outside of the stadium save for a thumbnail at the very end. I suppose this part is yet to be finalised as it is harder to design the outside when the inside is still in progress.
As for the worry about the lack of boxes, why is that a concern? I am sure that will be spot on.
In terms of the large corporate seating, this is not boxes but the seating for the lounges. We already have made the most of this at Goodison. I sit in The People's Club lounge and the seating is in the middle of the Park End. There is a second lounge called the Captain's Lounge and they sit in the same part and have their lounge next door to us in the Park End.
There is also a load of them in the Main Stand as well as actual boxes:
It's the corporate seating that needs to be expanded. Everton struggle to sell the actual boxes and that won't change in the new ground. The facilities won't actually be any better. In terms of corporate lounges, again, I can't see this being much better in the new stadium. It is sold out but if you tried to get in for next season, I think you'll get a season ticket. The packages are very reasonable considering what other clubs charge.
So I struggle to see the criticism here. The club know exactly where they are at with this. Any decision on the numbers will have been made very carefully.
37 Posted 16/02/2019 at 13:00:45
When you see the stands super imposed and you see just how it is designed so we are ALL so close to the pitch and all of our sight lines are perfect, then thats the most important thing.
The entire stadium looks like its been built with atmosphere as the most important thing, even the only thing. So, it looks a real fans stadium, not just one that looks good on telly or a PlayStation.
38 Posted 16/02/2019 at 13:09:23
Does it separate from the other lot?
Does it create a unique riverside stadium, an iconic landmark worthy of British Heritage status, part of the landscape of Liverpool, like the Liver Building?
After that, it is the stuff which generates emotions in Evertonians, such as:
Some obvious recognition of our magnificent history (the best in the history of the worldwide game) without being, as Moshiri says, a museum?
Intimidating... home end in particular?
After that, it is:
Corporate boxes and hotel rooms... easy money.
Peel's induction/involvement... this is the masterpiece in their plan, so what are they bringing (financially in particular) to the party?
A lot to pull together... if all of this has been thought through. And a desire, while all this is going on, to be a top six club.
When I think this through, the 'top six club' aim can wait for the stadium... but what guarantees are there (see Arsenal and Usmanov)?
At least it gives us the chance to be top six... we will continue to be Don Quixote if we don't and I have faith in the Evertonians coming through our youth system to be in place by 2023... just... to be worthy players in the pantheon of gods!
39 Posted 16/02/2019 at 13:50:36
40 Posted 16/02/2019 at 14:02:50
Moving on, just about anything in terms of sight-lines has to be better than dear old Goodison but moving to a riverside stadium with only a 180 degree radius is likely to be very testing re car parking.
Looks good on paper though.
41 Posted 16/02/2019 at 14:11:47
42 Posted 16/02/2019 at 14:18:31
43 Posted 16/02/2019 at 14:20:09
44 Posted 16/02/2019 at 14:57:28
Look at EFC ground in comparison to other new stadiums from the aerial view (see pdf https://www.evertonarentwe.com/EFC.pdf (page 31). EFC looks bland by comparison. Just flat and square/ rectangular shaped.
Look at Chelsea's plans for their new stadium and look at Spurs' ground too. They look amazing. Fire the architect or keep him and get a creative design team in to to the stadium project justice.
It should be a stadium that stands out for the future. Everton legends must be shown outside the stadium based on current or future technologies. It would be great if there could be sounds (and images of say Dixie Dean or Graham Sharp scoring goals and hearing the crowds back then) from EFC legends on match days before coming in and on going out home.
It would be fab if would could see 3-D image holgrams of EFC legends... not too far away in technology i hear. Look at the banners now the way things can move... ie, adverts showing cars moving as though driving).
Why also not try to make the stadium more aerodynamic ie curves circular - even have some aspects of the Everton badge from an aerial view? Just something to stand out but not just for now but something special for the future too.
I can't believe we gave Anfield to the shower over the park and kept Goodison Park. Anfield was a far better ground. Goodison looks terribly dated now.
45 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:06:14
It's a very symmetrical look, what new stadium isn't going to be but it still has character and makes you want be in it. I can't imagine a spot in that ground that wouldn't give you a great view.
The comparisons with the other clubs main stands are interesting, most of them are larger but generally it is just roof space. Anfield excluded – their seating goes way back, but is that an improvement? The important thing to note from these images is the closeness to the pitch and ours trumps most. The biggest difference is to compare ours with the London Stadium – it is shocking how far away the West Ham fans sit in comparison.
Just looking at these images has really got me excited about going to a match there and I'm sure there will be many more like me.
Can anyone provide any links to the outside fascia or concourse and the mysterious "multi-storey" underwater car park?
I can't get enough of this stuff.
46 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:07:52
John, let's not rewrite history. Until the 1970-80s, Anfield was landlocked, had a much smaller footprint than Goodison and a much smaller capacity. The ground was very faded and dated.
The space they now have is as the result of blighting the local area for three decades.
47 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:15:40
I think people still fail to note that the other lot really are an "off-shoot" of Everton. They were set up by John Houlding after a failed takeover bid. He had a lot of support and that support left Everton and assisted him in setting up the new club.
They had a very significant proportion of our hierarchy and an even more significant proportion of our team. And that team was the reigning League Champions, let's not forget. The imperious Rob Sawyer has wrote about this many times. I'd suggest John Wilson checks out his work.
49 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:20:19
Just one thing that maybe other posters May be able to clear up, it says can be used as safe standing with a 2 for 1 ratio.
If this is the case, how would they accommodate safe standing if say that section is full of season ticket holders.
What if some do not want to stand, but with renewing their season ticket, they take up their usual seat?
It's a grey cell moment and sure someone will have an answer to this scenario.
51 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:31:55
As a season ticket holder, you would have a "seat" guaranteed, and you simply renew. West Ham did not just transpose the seat from Upton Park to the Olympic Stadium. This was the problem, everyone moved, no one knew each other and it has been hard to get anything going for them.
I would expect Everton to say that those in the Gwladys are entitled to a seat in the new "Home End" the one with the "Big Wall". You would not simply get your seat, but you would be allocated one within it.
As for the seats themselves. I suggest you look at the safe-standing seats and see how they work. It is very different from the terraces we once knew.
52 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:34:35
I had always assumed we just gave Anfield to them. Was this before we were called Everton, when we were St Domingo FC or when we were called Everton?
54 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:46:03
I cannot recall when we changed to Everton, I think it was around 1880, and certainly before the formation of the Football League. So in 1891 when the dispute happened, there was very much an Everton Football Club. In fact, if John Houlding had got his way, Liverpool FC would actually be called Everton Athletic.
55 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:47:43
58 Posted 16/02/2019 at 16:01:41
I'd rather increase stadium capacity or have a realistic and fairly cheap option to expand in the future than a car park.
Instead, put a light rail stop or bus stop next to the main road and a ferry stop on the water side to get people in and away for free if needs be.
I think the future of the area will be a traffic-free zone so, other than staff and players, everyone else can walk or shuttle in.
59 Posted 16/02/2019 at 16:12:45
This to me is one of the possible designs and layouts out of a few and the club have decided to put it out there to give us a little teaser with very little happening until the Cardiff game.
60 Posted 16/02/2019 at 16:26:29
So, henceforth, I shall never again refer the RS as the RS - they shall be "Everton Athletic". - 5 times - eh?
61 Posted 16/02/2019 at 16:38:07
62 Posted 16/02/2019 at 16:46:58
That said, I wonder if the Walton scallys will trek down to the Ten Streets to "G'ard yer car, Mista?"
And I can't help wishing the current Everton were a bit more "Athletic".
64 Posted 16/02/2019 at 16:59:30
I think it looks spectacular and will be an amazing site. The issue about capacity will not be a problem, plans for an increase will be in place so relax and drool.
65 Posted 16/02/2019 at 17:02:42
67 Posted 16/02/2019 at 17:10:08
Which pictures show the brickwork you mention?
68 Posted 16/02/2019 at 17:10:44
John @44 talks like he knows what he's on about, until you read his last paragraph, which is absolute bollocks IMO.
Anfield was never the better ground, although this started to change when the people in-charge of Liverpool FC devised a plan to try and make their stadium better, whilst the people in-charge at Everton never had a pot to piss in, and had to keep robbing Peter to pay Paul whilst Goodison Park was beginning to rot away.
Let's unite behind these leaked plans, and pray that we are all around to see Everton play in our new stadium, fingers crossed!
69 Posted 16/02/2019 at 17:17:31
Until the final issue and draft is made then it's all speculation, but it's something to look forward too.
Who knows if the pitch will be at ground level or sunken below ground level? Atmosphere and noise looks a prime consideration.
Hopefully the car park won't be a Mount Pleasant type, and will be proportionate to the stadium design.
There will be some massive rebuilding to accommodate this site in terms of transport and roads, but hopefully they'll add a train link from Sandhills, and build the Toffee Walk along the river front towards The City Centre. A compelling journey celebrating the history of EFC.
There is hope but, at the end of the day the football team must step up, and step up rapido, as this current slump is not doing Evertonians or potential investors any good.
I hope the club communicates as appropriate the exterior and surrounding Plaza details.
The existing wall at Bramley-Moore Dock is to be retained, so I believe... so hopefully this will become the new Bastion of Everton Football Club.
A long way to go yet, but plenty of hope.
70 Posted 16/02/2019 at 17:54:19
The end that currently looks like the present Park End will be the new Gwladys Street end and the other end that looks like the current Gwladys Street will be the away end?
71 Posted 16/02/2019 at 18:05:39
72 Posted 16/02/2019 at 18:22:38
I really like the concept, it's really been done with the spectator in mind (or at least that's what they are trying hard to convince somebody).
Compared to the other stadiums, watching the game (even from the higher positions would seem preferable to those other stadiums. Chelsea though looks quite the same with 60,000 seats. Maybe we could alter the plan to that?
I can't wait to see this happen but I'm afraid it just might not happen while I'm still around (59 years total, 53 with this pleasure and burden called Everton FC).
73 Posted 16/02/2019 at 18:24:30
Houlding was left with a football ground and no team. Everton's players were professionals and League Champions and I don't think any stayed with Houlding. Why would they?
All but one or two of the Everton Committee stayed loyal so Houlding was, more or less, on his own and up the creek without a paddle. He tried to hijack the Everton name, registering the name 'The Everton Football Club and Athletic Ground Company Limited' but the real Everton appealed to the FA and Houlding was told to 'do one'.
Liverpool have been a lucky club from the word go. In 1893 Accrington Stanley resigned and Bootle dropped out of the 2nd Division. Liverpool applied for one of the two vacant places and, to everyone's surprise, got one.
nb. John Houlding is buried in Everton Cemetery but the grave, although impressive, is neglected. They may have money (at the moment) but one can't buy class!
74 Posted 16/02/2019 at 18:33:25
75 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:06:32
76 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:15:23
Anyway, I doubt this a normal fans car park. Itll be for the players, officials and VIPs.
77 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:18:09
I'm chuffed to bits and think it will become one of the most iconic stadiums in the world. Riverfront view with a boss team in it. Night matches are going to be MAGIC!!! COYB 🌃😁👌👏
78 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:46:11
The Allianz Arena stands out for night games, let's see what Dan Meis has planned for the exterior.
80 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:54:38
81 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:55:49
Trouble is, getting the plans passed and/or raising the dosh have presented a problem in the past and already leaks and misinformation seem to be threatening this grandiose scheme however well conceived it may be.
The distrust of those who control the business of our cub is demonstrated by the widespread belief that this 'leak' has occur ed not by accident but with the intent of diverting attention away from the mega disappointment that is Moshiri Season 3.
Certainly, the arguments over seating/standing capacity and the view from the Wirral keep our minds off the awfulness that is Everton in the playing sense for a moment or so but that won't wash for long and just a couple more defeats 'when play resumes' will see Bramley-Moore relegated back to the minority interest columns.
82 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:56:16
Im sure the final external view will be more impressive than the thumbnail view and Id agree that the car park can only be either sub terranean or required to be there for good reason. The more Lucas Oil the better for me.
My only concern is that the dimensions of the gantries, width of the seats and depth of the seats are all below modern stadia standards. In effect we are squeezing 52,000 seats into a modern day 42-45,000 stadium and it wont be as spacious as some of the top stadia, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea in particular? I would reluctantly accept a 52,000 seat stadium if it gave a rocking Goodison atmosphere every game and had the highest standards in comfort and facilities.
83 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:09:32
The interior renderings look at best to be basic and utilitarian. Apart from the hazy overhead view there are no other exterior hints on the brochure. I hope that when these come to light they will just floor us with amazing architectural detail. If this costs £500M, OMFG!
84 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:13:26
I get it that it won't be the final design but they are real drafts. Not sure there's much difference from what was already out there. While the comparison to Goodison it will be bigger, it's not as big as the likes of NWHL in size as well as capacity. Underselling our potential in my view.
The outside image looks like the Buro Happold from a couple of years ago – little difference. It really isn't iconic! Doesn't fit in with the docks. The roof looks totally inadequate for a cold and windy waterfront.
The car park is just plain daft! (It should be underground within the dock in my opinion). The river side should, without a shadow, be a waterfront that allows access to the fans and public alike.
86 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:36:59
In that it acts as a wind break, a buffer against the worst storms and tides that Irish Sea can throw against the stadium and thousands of people that will be milling around in all sorts of weathers. It could be a necessary device.
It would be interesting to know if any of that had any basis in fact.
87 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:59:50
There is a lot of similarity if you look closely (to my eyes anyway!)
88 Posted 16/02/2019 at 21:18:11
More food for thought... but deffo, this thread is going, well.
This could be a very long thread as, we want the best, interesting to see the the cost of the Borrussia Stadium, accepting there's a lot of ground work to do at the Bramley-Moore Dock.
89 Posted 16/02/2019 at 21:45:05
And before you say both – you can't have both.
90 Posted 16/02/2019 at 22:26:52
If Moshiri can get a stadium anything like that built, it will be some achievement. Good Luck to him. He is going to need it if it was leaked by who, in my opinion, leaked it.
Joey #12, Maybe be spot on.
Don #40, Liked Zonal comment.
92 Posted 17/02/2019 at 01:21:36
It's interesting how many of the negativity police have disappeared after giving some of us a good telling off earlier in the season for “moaning” about the defensive frailties of the team and Silva's nightmare zonal strategy etc. Not quite so many now saying it was wrong to be concerned.
Anyway, the important thing here is that the clubs reaction really does say everything you need to know. These are obviously quite close to the final design, or certainly one of two final concepts, the other maybe being a bit more radical and placed side by side the pros and cons of each can be argued.
We've only seen one set leaked but I'm convinced there will be alternative approaches drawn up. This leak may be awkward for the club but it will have given them some food for thought as honestly the general reaction seems one of folk being underwhelmed and surprised at the apparent lack of a standout design feature that really makes this an amazing new feature of our cities waterfront.
The car park stuff doesn't bore me at all. I'm one of many disabled fans irritated at the constant attempts to declare the whole area a no-go zone for cars. It's not feasible to use much by way of alternative transport for a lot of disabled fans so the thought that they are at least looking at on-site parking, albeit it limited, is reassuring.
It's okay to say you love the leaked designs, or hate them, or something in between. It's not excessive positivity or negativity. It's just your view and there's nowt wrong with expressing it.
Meanwhile the team are still incredibly shit and a relegation fight could be looming after two weeks of other teams results and any news from the FA investigation into us maybe tapping up Silva, like a 3-point deduction at just the right moment to increase the relegation fear. Now there's some incredible negativity to upset the police.
93 Posted 17/02/2019 at 03:05:37
I just want a team of players to entertain and win more games than they lose... Sadly, I feel I wont live to see it...
94 Posted 17/02/2019 at 04:00:38
To build it cost €86.9 million and it was built between 2002-04.
It looks to me like there might be a nice atmosphere in there and it does look similar to the pictures of ours.
95 Posted 17/02/2019 at 07:45:57
There's deffo hope on the horizon for EFCs new Bramley-Moore Dock stadium.
96 Posted 17/02/2019 at 10:52:51
Having looked through the PDF several times, it would seem obvious Meis has had to cram 52k seats into quite a limited footprint, resulting in very few executive box seats (only 280) as well as very little space around most standard seats and restricted concourse area. It looks to me like 52k is the absolute maximum we will get if all seated which makes me think we may end up with less in the end. I wonder if the space afforded for disabled supporters is also the minimum? Likewise, space afforded to dugouts and media etc. What would people think if capacity was reduced to say 49k to allow more space and facilities? Not having a moan, just asking a question.
Similarly, it seems the space afforded to standard seating is going to be a lot tighter than most of those featured in the comparison. One of my biggest issues currently at Goodison is the space to sit comfortably (I appreciate not all seats) and would love to not be sitting with my knees rammed up against the seat in front. Again, not seeking to be negative but I think it's a fair point. What do people make of this?
97 Posted 17/02/2019 at 11:20:04
98 Posted 17/02/2019 at 12:40:47
This is an important first view of the city for cruise liners and other passenger ferries. Whilst I do not think the structure would detract from the World Heritage site to the south, it is important that the opportunity to present an iconic and identifiable structure in the form of the stadium is not lost. Car parks don't do that!
99 Posted 17/02/2019 at 14:25:16
I went to the fans forums with Dan Meis and having viewed the documents here it seem to me that due to the favoured orientation of stadiums in the UK the site we purchased seems too small and Dan is having to squeeze the stadium into the site, thereby restricting the capacity, and the amount of space for individual seats etc.
One of the problems with Goodison Park is that it is landlocked. This site would have been big enough if the orientation was different, and Dan can only design with the site given him. Maybe the solution would be to go back to Peel and purchase enough land to build the iconic stadium.
100 Posted 17/02/2019 at 14:55:47
Do you really think Everton fans are that stupid??!?! Not everything has to be a conspiracy. We all know the team is crap — without drawings of a new stadium!!!
101 Posted 17/02/2019 at 15:40:56
102 Posted 17/02/2019 at 17:37:32
The whole reason riverside site is mostly negated by a massive architectural oversight by not placing three of the stands next to the river so most of the fans will be denied a great view. I think the repositioning of all of the stands so that they all face the river in a long line could accomplish 100% percent river views even from the safe-standing stands.
The pitch itself a simple green patch) could be viewed beautifully, if anyone is interested, from the parking lot which would be repositioned in the area now taken up by the three stands now facing the river.
Apart from that, I think it looks great.
103 Posted 17/02/2019 at 19:09:41
Although the Car Park will fit well with them other ones that are near to the Three Graces World Heritage Site. Might as well used an Architect on a retainer from City Council planning department. More St John's Precinct than Three Graces or St George's Hall.
The next part of the cunning plan is someone to turn up at night and release some Water Vole or Newts that have a protected status.
104 Posted 17/02/2019 at 19:16:05
People's concerns about the carpark are about the view from the river and the Wirral, ie, the iconic image, and not for the fans as you say who should be looking at the footy for 90 mins.
Please explain how you have three sides facing the river again?
105 Posted 17/02/2019 at 19:33:44
Apologies Mike for taking you seriously.
108 Posted 17/02/2019 at 20:41:33
I'm looking forward to being on the banks of the Mersey with the family watching the team. Hope it happens, what about yerself?
109 Posted 17/02/2019 at 22:19:51
110 Posted 17/02/2019 at 22:35:06
It IS broadly accurate as of that date, changes are still happening but it is very revealing of direction of travel with more premium seats, reduced stand rake, narrower seats closer together for most fans & reduced stand heights. Lots of factors at play including site complexity, affordability, heritage, access, safety, Brexit cost impacts and more so compromises have been largely forced but there remains a tendency to see risk more clearly than opportunity at Board level.
Orienting N-S allows the normal football orientation to reduce sun glare in the goalsand accommodates a car park and fan park but seriously compromises the stadium itself. Reorienting E-W or angled will help the stadium but impair the other aspects. Despite the flaws/consequences having been under-estimated N-S is likely to stick because a change now will add time, cost and further delay planning but as normal with Everton there remains debate and doubt.
The Board is said to be split on this and on capacity, design (with Bill increasingly vocal lobbying Moshiri for changes). The only seemingly fixed element is how much more money Moshiri is prepared to cough up. Every indication at the moment (based on a call with Sasha last week I was briefed on) is we are getting something that falls short of Meis original designs and the new Spurs benchmark but still better than most of the recent builds.
No matter what else happens the numbers are still very tight (despite Moshiri promising equity part funding and including 2600 more premium seats). The stadium may pay for itself it wont be directly net income geberative for quite some time so we need commercial spin-off benefits to make much headway.
In my view it is definitely still worth doing as Goodison cannot survive forever and BMD is better than out of town but it is now a project beset with compromises...and with a very frustrated lead architect. There was interesting informal call between him and one of the various EFC podcast guys efforts a few weeks ago, none of which is for broadcast, but which corroborated most of the above and provided a lot of insight about how often EFC have changed their minds & the consequences of that - not Spurs level dysfunctional but bad enough.
111 Posted 17/02/2019 at 22:36:16
I genuinely think it looks good, how can any modern football ground look iconic? Maybe it's best to save the debate for when we see the outside images.
I personally can't wait for them but these leaked images, to me, are impressive.
112 Posted 17/02/2019 at 23:21:40
Seriously though I find it a little absurd that people are worried that the back of the stadium the part facing the river should look better than the front of the Stadium the part that is more of a landmark to the City. Surely the people of the city should get to see the better side.
The parking in any modern facility is usually located so you can walk from the car directly into the stadium so nothing new there. Also the project when the plans are released is to viewed in its entirety, there is absolutely no reason why a parking lot shouldn't be a great addition as a piece of architecture.
There is nothing I have seen so far that suggests that it will be anything other than first class for the people of the Wirral to look at. But please save the best views for the city side.
113 Posted 18/02/2019 at 03:41:26
Great interview, talked about their new stadium, why they were building it the way they were, why the training ground was attached to the stadium and loads of other good stuff I can't remember.
Rational, well informed and inspirational, our glorious leaders could learn a few things from him, like being vocal about what they want to achieve and why decisions are being made, rather than everything being shrouded in secrecy and us having to make do with leaks like the world's worst best kept secret.
I guess a little more transparency and communication is all we ask for.
114 Posted 18/02/2019 at 04:14:22
"Mind your car, Mister?" It's traditional!
115 Posted 18/02/2019 at 11:27:58
Not what the architect wanted? Not as good as Spurs? But a very good stadium on the dock nonetheless, on “The banks of the ROYAL BLUE Mersey?”
116 Posted 18/02/2019 at 11:56:09
Stephen, I stress I'm not taking the piss, can you possibly rephrase that sentence?
117 Posted 18/02/2019 at 12:29:12
relating to the activity of the endangered and protected Merseyside vole. Example sentence - "The geberative Merseyside vole loves to tunnel its way under BMD, and as such, persons of the red hue of the city wish to ensure its natural environment is left undisturbed and so are campaigning to block Everton FC's stadium build".
to geberate (verb):
relating to the stadium build of Everton F.C. Example sentence - "Everton hope to geberate funds for their new BMD stadium from a wide-range of yet-to-be-revealed sources".
a geberator (noun):
an Everton employee or associate charged with raising funds for the club's new BMD stadium. Example sentence - "Bill Kenwright offered to be the lead geberator in raising funds for Everton, but majority shareholder preferred to appoint Nick Leeson, the rogue trader famed for bringing down the 200-year-old Barings Merchant bank in the 1990s".
On Stephen's (presumed typo) you reference, I'm guessing he means “ net income geNerative” and simply hit the neighbouring 'b' instead of 'n' on his keyboard.
Like yourself, not being familiar with either phrase, I assume the correct phrase means we will make money from the stadium, but in the context Stephen uses it, not enough to satisfy our desire to challenge the very top sides so we still need to increase alternative income streams, other than the TV contract and stadium generated monies.
118 Posted 18/02/2019 at 14:49:23
I would prefer a wall built in front of the goal rather than behind it. Then we wouldn't have to worry about crosses into our box and zonal marking.
119 Posted 18/02/2019 at 14:55:21
Why N-S or E-W? If it was NW-SE then given the sun should be starting to shine SW to NE on most days after 12 midday, then a NW-SE alignment will mean that the sun will not come into play down the ground at any time – but pity the poor people with the stand down the side facing the sun – either blinded by Everton's brilliance on the pitch or that great big red thing in the sky. (They could always hope for grey days when we play. So no different to now.)
120 Posted 18/02/2019 at 15:35:24
My mate, an RS, is cruel bastard. He caught a Merseyside mole and buried it.
121 Posted 18/02/2019 at 15:59:11
122 Posted 18/02/2019 at 16:15:53
Jay it wont be just voles those red fans will pretend to protect to stop us getting the new stadium, theyll go to any lengths, it is really getting to quite a few of them.
I hope none of them start talking about Voles in Ned Kellys tonight.
123 Posted 18/02/2019 at 17:10:48
124 Posted 18/02/2019 at 19:46:39
125 Posted 18/02/2019 at 20:18:12
I also miss the point of that wall behind the home end goal made of reclaimed bricks. Surely it's just going to be hidden behind advert hoardings.
I see nothing within those pictures that would make anyone feel envious or even identify the stadium as being unique. It's just a watered down New White Hart Lane.
126 Posted 19/02/2019 at 09:58:59
I've been swerving the home games recently because Goodison is not a place I wish to visit were we do the away fans' job for them and slate Everton players.
129 Posted 23/02/2019 at 01:51:36
130 Posted 24/02/2019 at 00:38:43
There's no roads shown and, if they use the exterior circulation on both / either side of the stadium, there's little space for supporters.
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