The 2026 World Cup — England vs Argentina

Argentina are a decent team with a few star players, but that description would suit England too. A motivated England in a cooler stadium will be some way improved and they are a united squad.
Spain are hitting peak form at the perfect time, but thats for another day.
Live in hope!!

Could be red cards tonight as Argentina will play with a lot of grit and passion. They are tremendous footballers no doubt but they can be very volatile at times.

If Messi wasn't playing I would have some confidence that England would win but even at his age he is still the best in the world by some distance.

Looking forward to the game fingers crossed that Bellingham and England can reach the final.

Andrew,

I think both teams could be in danger of those red cards, which you might agree with.

I don't feel we have seen anything new throughout this Tournament. The game plan seems to have been to stay in the game and let the superstars do their stuff. Haaland. Mbappe, Ronaldo have gone home now. Belgium's flat track bully was always going home early. Either Kane or Messi will be following them after tonight's game.

England have not impressed, but If they can get their shit together and play to their potential they will win the tournament. They will never have a better chance.

Messi will be aloud to commit murder tonight and still a blind eye will be turned. Messi plays MLS in USA, what properganda this will provide Capt of World Championd also it will cement his Ballan D'Or.

internet will be in meltdown after this game if the Ref keeps to the script and all the commercial pressure will be brought to bear. guarantee ref card for a petulant act whilst Argentina will fall over go down and fein injury.

I think Argentina will play 4-4-2 tonight.Or 4-4-1-1
Messi with his usual free role.
Tough game

If Egypt can score two against this Argentina team then I can see England winning by two clear goal’s tonight.

2-0 England. Rice and Kane to score.

England are very slight favs and I think that reflects that it's very hard to separate them on form.
We almost always trip up eventually but I hope it's not tonight, please don't let it be decided on penalties.

Raymond, it should be easy for England if it comes to penalties, Pickford's in goal.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/790568364083555/?mibextid=ZZyLBr

I say.

Please don't start with Madueke.

Funny John, didn't a journalist get taken apart for a racist remark about our own Nigerian Ross Barkley?

Yes Eric, it was that scumbag Kelvin MacKenzie, the vermin responsible for the post Hillsborough lies in The Sun.

England will score tonight, the Argentine defence -- especially Martinez -- is very suspect in the air, something Kane & Bellingham should relish

They are also stronger in midfield, but the English defence needs to be solid against Messi, Alcaraz and Martinez. I'm expecting an England win.

Big night for Elliot Anderson tonight.

If he can stifle the supply to Messi, he could be England's matchwinner.

Reece James in!

I hope someone has told him he is allowed to pass the ball forwards!

Messi and the ref are bezzies apparently

Imagine if Pickford wins the World Cup?

An England Number 1 World Cup winner, it won't get bigger than that for the lad personally!

It's gonna be tasty!

No way this ends 11 v 11

Fuckin Djed Spence is like Roberto Carlos lol

Gordon only had eyes for glory there

Probably another £10M on Spence's transfer fee.

Forget Spence, let's get Reece James.

He never passes forward, he'd suit Moyes's progressive game.

23 minutes gone and not an attempt on goal by either team.

Bellingham finally gets one back on Mac Allister of the RS.

Pickford with a poor pass there could have been costly.

It's reported the halftime break in the final will be 25 minutes, with music artists playing like at the NFL.

Ref's not got this.

England were pressing well earlier, but backed off then.

First yellow goes to an England player, of course it does.

Why in the name of God would Spence want to come to us?

The ref is a joke, disgraceful officiating.

Spence is everything Mykolenko is not, and yes, I hold my hand up, I was badly wrong, I'd have him tomorrow.

Erm, corner?

Not with this ref.

Everything I hate about modern football: diving, going down under the slightest of touches, moaning to the ref, side to side shit...

A truly dreadful 45 minutes of theatrics from both sides, no shots on goal, it is boring me to tears.

The ref was okay until the ad break. It was like somebody reminded him why he's there.

Argentina provoking England, and getting away with it.

But England should concentrate on their football, and not lose their heads, and play football.

Think the ref has not been that bad tbh. Would love to have Simeone's passion/aggression in our team.

What's happened to Joe Hart's tattoos? His arms used to look like Everton mints but seems to have had them photoshopped?

I'm pleased not having to listen to Lee Dixon drone on...

Just seen a report that we're looking at Brooke Norton-Cuffy who's a RB??!!
Don't know much about him but he's a fucking RB!!!! Yes, a RB!!!

I think this will be remembered as an average World Cup with average teams.

Not even watching the swansong of the Argentinian Norman Whiteside will convince me otherwise.

Spence was good first half. Free kick or pen might be the difference here

Mark @40 Lee Dixon the Pickford hater? That fella robs a living as a pundit, I agree with you

Rice has been poor, and Rogers is not a winger, Tuchel should be more positive.

1-0 Gordon!!

Brilliant move. Nice finish by Gordon.

Fifa struggling to find a reason to call it back.

Spence what a tackle

Spence just added at least 10 mill to his value with that tackle!

I think we should sign the England left back

Spence is awesome tonight

Pickford giving some fuel to the boo boys

England just asking for trouble, farting around like that with the ball at the back.

James keeps wandering out of position

Tell you what, Stones might actually be a good shout if he'd be silly enough to come back to us, pisses on Tarks and Keane.

Depends how much he wants Jay

Brilliant from Pickford

Funny how all the silly antics suddenly stopped when Gordon scored.

Fantastic save from Pickford.

The pundits will have to praise Pickford for a change

What a save, Lee Dixon won't be happy

Wonder what Dixon would have found wrong with that

Crucial stage of the game managed, only just.

Survived the first 15 minutes of onslaught. But England need to be better on the break when the ball comes their way, to get the second goal.

And without Gordon, that may be a lot less likely to happen.

I know Andrew, not really into bringing the oldies back but he's certainly still got a few good years in him. Would prefer a RB personally but he's deffo worth a good shout.
Jordan's just pulled off another class save there. Fuck you Lee Dixon!!!

Amount of headers England are losing headers to smaller Argentina players WTF??

Well, if they carry on like this...

Only a matter of time.

Need to get Kane off, need an outlet

Terrible from Rogers not to pass then!

Criminal.

England are bladdered now.

Rice hasn't looked fit all tournament and there are leggy players out there right now

Not loving this sit back and absorb shite

That's on Tuchel for taking Rice off. Now set up just to defend all through extra time

When has sitting back ever worked?

We have seen it how many times with Everton over the years?

If you stand off world class players that's eventually what will happen, I wouldn't be shocked now to see Argentina win this before ET

Always going to happen. Argentina win this now

The difference is Argentina are putting quality in the box, the delivery is masterful whereas it's been rushed with England the Rogers ball in for Gordon aside it's been poor.

And there it is, unfortunately Argentina are head and shoulders ahead of England technically and fitness wise, Messi at 39 is fucking unreal.

That was a doozy!

Tuchel's tactics in ruins.

All on tuchel this. Went defensive far to early.

We've watched too much football and seen with Everton, this England performance is Everton DNA against a bigger opponent stamped all over it let's be frank here.

Turned to cowardly football and been duly punished, who was Stones and Konsa marking ?

Sitting back doesn't work, surrendering the ball simply tires your own players quicker as they are doing more running and more thankful energy expenditure.

Why are these players paid so much, they are really mediocre.

Gordon goal aside it's been a pretty abysmal England performance

Has Burn won a single header lol

Oh dear

Bridesmaids again.

Poor substitutions from Tuchel going defensively, played into Argentinian hands.

Haha, go Argentina! 100% for Spain in the final though.

It's never coming home. Wonder if they manage to pin this on Pickford too?

England are the international version of Everton.

Always find a way to grab defeat from the jaws of victory

Just like watching Everton that. Get a goal ahead and try to cling on for 30 minutes, bring on more and more defensive players the game goes on.

Shocking tactics from a so-called world class manager.

Is Tuchel looking for another job now?

Moyes or Tuchel? I know who I'd prefer even if they have just Everton'ed that!

Just how wrong can a manager get it. The worst I've ever seen at 61.

Poor team though. Reece James... Lol, and others. No flair in midfield with Anderson and Rice. Rice has really been off it as well.

Chris agreed, has Tuchel really warranted the big wages and reputation? Was it really any better than what Southgate served up?

Others might disagree but, for me, no -- it was just cowardly clinging-on football.

The Semi Final run basically masked what was a rather fortunate route there, riding out luck against Norway at times.

Congo was an absolute scrap and could have gone either way for 70% of that match, the Mexico game by far the exception to the rule.

A bang average team got to the semi finals in a tournament full of bang average teams.

The squad was boring and unadventurous and that cost him tonight.

That was on the manager.

We should've gone for it instead of putting six defenders on.

We should get Rooney in, talking sense 🤭

I suppose all the knowledgeable pundits will as per usual blame Pickford for the defeat.

It does not matter that the clueless manager's bizarre changes caused most of the problems.

After the England goal, it was pretty much one way traffic. In spite of the brilliant goal saving tackle by Spence, the terrific save by Pickford, and the intervention -- twice -- by the goal posts, England just didn't do enough to keep Argentina at bay.

It was Dyche-ian / Moyes-ian tactics at its worst. Or perhaps it was that the Mexico and Norway games had taken too much out of the England players? Ultimately, it was the better team that won and there can't be any complaints from England.

Another cross into the 6 yard box that Jordan just watches. same old same old. We see it every week. Go back to the 2-3 86th minute Bournmouth collapse two seasons ago, all 3 Bournemouth goals were crosses into the 6-yard box!! … 6'7” Dan Burn in the middle at the end and Konsa tried two awful crosses!

When Trent Alexander-Arnold is at home!!! Who else would we have wanted in that position except Trent!! We deserve it… bringing on extra defenders and letting Messi have a go for 15-20 minutes is hilarious.

None of us even support England anyway do we?! #ScouseNotEnglish

England are out! Well-deserved, given how they played against Norway!! Diving and going down...

I hope Spain wins the final! Argentina gets way too much help from the referees!!

The ref was actually on our side today. We just blew it good style…

Jordan can't collect crosses in the 6-yard box and Trent is at home while Konsa tries two pathetic crosses 🤣 😂

Who honestly believed we'd get to the final? Deep down, we all knew that Argentina would win.

Maybe it's the Everton in me. My Everton was the Everton of the 80s and even with Peter Reid, Gary Stevens, Trevor Steven and Gary Lineker, the Argies beat us.

It was never gonna happen unfortunately

Wow, Tuchel tucked his tail.

That was Dychian strategy, once Gordon scored.

Argentina aren't that good but, with cowardly tactics after Gordon scored, Tuchel did exactly what they'd have wanted him to, giving them most of the pitch and possession with their still world-class maestro who created the killer goal late on.

Compared to them, just how many shots/headers did we hit against them? Did their goalie have to make a save of any note?

Toney coming on so late tells me that Tuchel knows he faffed up big-time because, had he come on way earlier, they would've had to have limited their dominance in and around our area to deal with him or Watkins.

Very depressing, and quite boring to watch.

Everton that.

No different from Southgate in the end. Same script - same outcome.

Time to move on and look forward to Everton's season. A 12th-placed finish on 50 points as we lose the last 8 games to miss out on Europe. However, all won't be lost as Moyes contract is then extended for the stability he had brought.

35 minutes trying to defend a 1 goal lead? Do me a favour, Tuchel!!!

All on the manager, that. Moyes would have been proud of you, but still losers.

Tuchel will end up here. He mirrors everything we stand for.

Allardyce, Benitez, Ancelotti, Dyche, Moyes.

Let's hang on to what we got.

6 defenders on, and the striker is unmarked.

Couldn't keep possession, stuck in the 18-yard box, creaating chance after chance.

Still looks a lack of quality and belief. Argentina just kept on knocking. England no answers.

Straight out the Moyes playbook. KITAP1.

Absolute garbage sticking 6/7 defenders on with 20 plus minutes

Only 6 weeks to go and we'll be seeing some similar performances to that at Hill Dickinson Stadium.

If someone said I could choose between England winning the World Cup or Everton finishing 6th, I would pick us finishing 6th… all day, every day!…..

Supporting England is for the Lonsdale wearing, Wigan and Plymouth fans etc who only get to watch big football games when they watch England.

We support an institution of world football in the best league in the world. England who??

Awful game management, very negative, and yes, a bit familiar for Blues.

Got a goal and stopped playing, no press, sit deep, invite them on, in a bloody World Cup semi-final. On the manager, that... awful.

Newsflash "England are shit"!

Maybe we should now go for Bellingham and Kane, proper Everton attitudes there like! 🫣

After the goal: Play Moyes tactics -- don't be surprised if you get a Moyes result!

Karma!

Everton finishing 6th will never be good enough for me, had that under Moyes in his first 11 years here, been there done that, won fuck all.

Everton is my priority over England yes, but finishing 6th is no goal or achievement.

This season I don't want a year of stability, I want a fucking piece of silverware at the end of it like the mighty Crystal Palace have been able to do in the last two seasons.

31 years without success is laughable.

Yes Jim!!! Nil Satis Nisi Optimum!!!

I do think Tuchel fucked up with his subs - terrible defending from the guy we are supposed to be in for (and O'Reilly) for their second goal allowing Messi to cross.

The best team won tonight and of course Messi is on the level of Maradona -- genius.

Should be a great final!

You can talk about Southgate, but Tuchel brought on two defenders for Rice, and defended, sat back and lost?

Better team won but feeling it for Jordan and those ToffeeWebbers who support their national team.

Svein (98). You are a prick.

Stay off here. Norwegian arsehole.

Jim, I agree we all want silverware. Sadly it won't happen under this fella. We won't buy sufficiently to cover all the gaps required along with pace.

We'll make a feabile attempt at the clubs and finish bottom half with Kinnear telling us it's been another stable season being mildly happily dissatfied.

Moyes won't give shit, gets paid well and will be leaving next summer.

Tuchel turned into Moyes, sitting back for so long. As for the defensive substitutions?

When will managers learn?

We are all gutted, we had them.

Simon 118, imagine the RS websites it'll have gone ballistic.

Leave him alone, at least he's our Norwegian arsehole.

Pity that England got knocked out, but they play with a cheater whom I'll henceforth just call the "diving queen".

In all fairness, we said the big French players didn't turn up last night.

Kane and Bellingham were totally oblivious.

If we had won it and gone on to win the final it would have been great, it would have been 60 years exactly.

But personally I'm more arsed about Everton's 31 years without winning anything. Moyes is not the answer to that one.

Just back from our English local.

Tuchel should be hung, drawn, and quartered. Shithouse tactics and subs, Sit deep and defend a 1-0 lead in the 55th minute. Wichser. Defensive subs. Suddenly it's 1-1 and the arschloch has 6 defenders on the pitch. Brings on Toney rather than Watkins.

This is all on Tuchel. The scheizhaus should go before Saturday.

St Daniel-the-Absent and St. Angus the Silent will now start to monitor Tuchel or Sir Gareth.

Paul, it was always written in the books.

I think whoever manages the England team obviously use Everton as some kind of blueprint. 🤐

Who posted way back "Messi and 10 passengers"?

Good post Brendan, mate👍

The hatchet job starts on Tuchel but, if he had survived those last 14 minutes, he would have been a hero.

Kane, what a player but, in the biggest games, in the latter stages of these major tournaments he is simply allowed to stop playing as a centre-forward.

England haven't played that well in this tournament, they got a favourable draw and went out to the first really decent team they met because, although they have really improved in the last 10 years, they still don't have enough good players to soak up the pressure whilst remaining a real threat going forward.

Eight years ago it was Southgate who watched his team going deeper and deeper, and never had the wisdom to do anything about it. Tonight it was Tuchel, who only knew how to keep putting more defenders on when his England team were under the cosh.

Sometimes it's about being braver and playing on the front foot... but I suppose it's easy saying that from the comfort of my living room.

It's like Tuchel never saw the Euro final v Italy, he bottled it at 1-0 just like Southgate.

You're up 1-0, dance with the girl that brung ya, for fuck's sake!

Jim 86.

Exactly what I said to loads of people via txt, Tuchel reminded me of us going a goal up against them under Moyes then going deeper than a miner defending it.

Shocking tactics and every man and his dog knew the outcome... absolute cowardly tactics. I'm no massive England fan by any means but if there's one country I truly hate its them despicable Argies. Their antics in the first half were vile.

Be fair, though, they've got previous. Think '66 and '98. Yes, you get the picture.

Couldn't care less about the consolation match nor the Nazi sympathizer final, more time to watch the Open.

No more disappointing football until Everton kick off again.

Tuchel, one-nil up, brings off Rice and James, for two defenders.

Back to Southgate? Backfired.

Rooney aside, the sycophantic punditry is beyond parody.

Shearer and Hart saying Tuchel gambled and lost is nonsense. He played the occasion, rather than the game. England may have won the game had he been brave and gambled, we will never know.

When Dan Burn and Ivan Toney are your Hail Mary, you've had a very bad day.

I suppose the main question from defenders is why was Argentina's most dangerous player, Lionel Messi, left wide open on his own on the right wing?

Sean @97,

Speak for yourself. I've always been Everton first but I always support England, particularly in World Cup and Euros matches.

Your criticism of Jordan is mean-spirited, he's as good as Banks and Shilton and second only to Neville Southall.

Tuchel's tactics were definitely to blame but it's hard to take losing to those obnoxious cheats again.

Vuelve a casa 😁

I told my son, "That's it! We are fucked."

"Why?" he asked.

"Because the subs just told the team to go 4-5-1. That's to stop Messi," he said.

"What do you think he will do now? Go on the wing, which he did. We didn't double up or stick tight."

Manager's fault. Shithouse coward. Plus about six of the squad should have been watching from home. At least some of them won't play at the next one.

The fear of winning...

England should have won that game against a poor Argentina. They will never get a better chance.

A 30-minute embarrassment.

"If England had held on, Tuchel would have been a hero".

But the tactics were so bad that it wasn't even close to working. Argentina could have had 5 in the last 20 minutes.

Make no mistake, Tuchel absolutely bottled it.

Excellent post, Ian (135). Unfortunately for our Mr Kearns he is nearly always in a minority of one or two or (if it's a real red-letter-day) three.

The sight of those Argentinian twats dancing after the final whistle with their 'Malvinas are Argentinian' banner -- breaking FIFA rules, let's see what happens, shall we -= is sickening and pathetic.

'The Argentina midfielder Rodrigo De Paul said: “We understand it's a football game that transcends; it brings back memories of what Diego did. We sing songs about our Malvinas heroes, mainly to remember them. What happened was an atrocity and we always remember the fallen, but what we want is to win this match to get to the final.”

Argentinian Falklands 'heroes'!! That's pushing it a little bit. Perhaps the England players should have whispered 'Gurkhas' in the ears of the Argentinians.

A winnable game thrown away by excessive caution (that only actually increases the jeopardy anyway).

Why are people having a pop at Pickford or Konsa when the result should never have needed to be reliant on a perfect performance by the goalie nor the crossing ability of a makeshift right-back when desperate to equalise to force the game into extra time?

I've heard some people blame the players for the fact that for a third of the game they were content to be squeezed into their own final third, but it was obviously orchestrated and it was obviously more likely than not to fail.

Apart from Messi, I wouldn't call these Argentinian players ‘greats' but they are decent enough to create real chances if you hand them total control of the ball.

Glad that's out of the way.

*fades in Nina Simone*
It's a new dawn
It's a new day
It's a new life for me, yeah
It's a new dawn
It's a new day
It's a new life for me, ooh
And I'm feeling good

Can we now stop looking back but rather look forward to yet another exciting season, just take a minute to savour the upcoming 38 games, not forgetting 2 or even 3 -- woah there, Nelly -- stirring blood and thunder Cup Ties.

And... *snaps fingers* you're back in the room. Not only do we now have the German Moyes, we've also got Davey 'The Real Deal' Moyes to look forward to.

Derek those lyrics were pretty much how every single Evertonian was feeling 12 months ago, getting ready to go to our beautiful new home on the banks of the royal blue Mersey.

Your last paragraph is why I personally can't begin to get even remotely excited about watching Everton, playing again right now.

I wanted England to win but, by the end of the game, it never really hurt because of naive and cowardly tactics.

Towards the end of last season, I was desperate for Everton, to get in Europe, but walking out of the stadium after the loss against Sunderland, my feelings were more of being exasperated and frustrated, because of those same naive, boring and very negative tactics.

Football is a game which used to set me free -- but the fear of losing, or even winning (very apt, Liam @139) plus the circus around the way the game is currently being officiated, has taken so much personal enjoyment away.

Can just imagine Moyes thinking: " I've got O'Brien at right-back... can I bring in Dan Burn at left back?" 🤔

The final piece in the jigsaw!!!

The problem is the media always find an excuse for the players not being good enough.

Argentina was the first top team we have met in the competition. The same has happened every time since 1966, they always come up short.

The media, who have a financial interest in overrating our players, bumming them up so us mugs are interested and begin to believe we can do well.

When you watched how the Spanish players performed on Tuesday versus ours last night, they were worlds apart.

Raymond. I've said it for years. Most English players are not much good. The premier League is vastly overrated.

Spot on Raymond. Here we go.
Sack Tuchel.
Install new messiah. Preferably foreign.
Unearth some new unbelievable talent.
Hail him / them as best thing since free ale
Tell the world we're on our way
Lose to Ruritania in next tournament ( apologies to Ruritanian Blues.)
Sack manager
Rinse and repeat

Manager goes 1-0 up in a Semi Final and completly shits himself.
Ive seen that before.

England and Argentina played out or fought out the first half but never troubled the goalkeepers, then England scored which immiediately caused their decline by letting Messi into the game— before that he hadn’t really been in the game —then England gave Argentina 3/4 of the pitch to play in and absolutely every one back so when they cleared the ball it went to an Argentina player who put them on the attack again and gave Messi acres of space to use his magic in and his wand produced more than enough chances to win two games.

The English manager must take most of the blame but haven’t the players got brains or mouths to see what is happening and orchestrate something to change what is going on in front of their eyes.

I didn’t think England had a very good tournament but getting to the semi final will mean they will a great welcoming home parade— sad really.

The players are very limited Dave when he makes the mad substitutions that he did.

Next season in the 60th minutenwhen Everton are on 15% possession, have surrendered every part of the pitch apart from their own penalty area and KDH is.taken off for John Stones (last minute marquee signing) we can all sing "Are you Tuchel in disguise?"

CB discovers another hidden IPhone feature, the double bounce.delayed post.

I also believe the best form of defence is attack but Tuchel was praised when he put defenders on against Mexico now, because he does the same thing and we lose he is criticised.
I don't dispute it was the wrong thing to do but even so the players still proved not good enough to defend the lead or score enough goals to at least get a draw.
When we went one up the Argies have to try and score they were always going to come at England strong, but we couldn't take advantage of more open spaces.

Paul 147 I don't follow. What you may be justified in saying is that the English players playing in the Premier League are vastly overrated.

Or is your view that Haaland, Doku etc are vastly overrated? If so, I disagree.

It was obvious to everyone that there would only be one result when Tuchel decided to defend the game out.

Bellingham and Neville pointing the finger at Pickford should take another look and realise, if it wasn't for Pickford, we would have lost that game 4-1.

Oh well, that's out of the way; now we have a dour season to look forward to under Mr Mediocre.

When certain teams lose, some people always say it's the players who aren't good enough, but I'm of the opinion that this isn't always the case.

England had Argentina exactly were they wanted them but, instead of being braver, they just retreated into their shell, trying to hold on to what they had instead of being savvy and going for the jugular.

I said it's easy being critical from our living room, because it is, but Tuchel simply didn't trust the players he had on the bench.

He could have swapped Gordon for Rashford, moved Rodgers inside, and replaced Rice with either of his Arsenal teammates who play on the wing; as good as his talisman is, when a player keeps vacating his position, then it's obviously time for him to come off.

Without being privy to knowing what goes on at junior level, my own opinion is that the whole thing has got to be ripped up. Keep the good bits, eliminate the dull, mundane and mediocre bits, and start concentrating on teaching our children to be better on the ball.

All opinions... mine is that England have been knocking on the door of these major tournaments for the last 8 years, but we just need that little bit more in the dugout and on the pitch.

Did Touchel call up Moyes at half time for tactical advice? Or tune into Talksport to listen to what Davey thought?

Playing a back 5 because they put on 4 attackers made no sense.

We should have kept a back 4, added an extra man in midfield and told our 2 wide players to push high up the field. Kane could have dropped into midfield to add an extra man when needed.

They would have been stretched and unbalanced with their fullbacks having to stay back.

The amount of space we gave Messi on our left hand side in the 2nd half was beyond belief. There was never a time when one of our players was within 10 yards of him when he received the ball.

We were too busy defending our 6-yard box to go out and engage him. He just found himself a space on the pitch and dictated the game from there.

What was the old phrase, you're easy to mark if you stand still? Well, Messi had a cigar on and and nobody went near him.

Poor, poor tactics from Tuchel.

Bellingham blaming Pickford for equaliser and was seen mouthing at the big screen "its in the middle of the goal".

Well, maybe if one of the gobshites camped out in the penalty area had got out to block the shot, it might have been stopped at source.

Decent player that he is, I find Bellingham a bit of a prick myself.

Bellingham is a first class prick Mick.

I was talking to a colleague who is a Real Madrid season ticket holder and he's convinced they've brought Mourinho back to get a grip of some of the out of control egos in that dressing room.

Argentina should have been down to 10 men after 3 or 4 minutes after an Argy thug thumped Anderson in the back of the neck / head with a clenched fist. No VAR check as usual.

Anderson was targetted and "fouled" 4 times in the first 10 minutes. Then, surprise, surprise -- he's the first player booked for fouling Messi, with his first foul tackle. I stopped watching at half-time as my blood pressure was off the scale!

I hope Spain thrash the horrible bastardos come Sunday... but, as the devil is running things at present, no doubt evil will out.

Tuchel needs to go. Did he ever play the same back four? How many times did he change the centre-back pairing and change his full-backs? How many players did he take that were nowhere near full fitness? Rice, Saka, for example.

Mandueke should never have gone. Henderson and Burn, for fuck's sake... Bowen would have been a much better fit and dare I say Garner for Henderson improves the squad and offers options.

If I was Pickford, I would retire from International football and watch on as England change and swap goalkeepers for the next few seasons, looking for someone decent enough.

Finally... what about signing a bloody full-back, Everton!!!

Keano and Tarks would have held out against the relentless crosses into the box. They should have been the starting pairing for England. 😉

Get shut of Tuchel certainly. But get used to further failure.

The squad, overall, has nowhere near the technical ability, skill if you will, of the other semi-finalists.

The issue England have is that it's obvious Kane's legs were going the further into the tournament they got but unlike other positions there are no younger players coming through who look like they could step into his shoes and that's a big issue.

All 3 strikers in the squad are 30+ and probably won't be around for the next World Cup.

The criticism of Pickford for not saving Fernandez's shot by the so called "expert pundits" is totally over the top, even Keane said it was a perfect strike, after his first few efforts went narrowly wide.

What pisses me off is they're making excuses for Kane who spent most of the night in the ref's ear, and Rice who has been crap for the last few games, saying he had a hard season...

Didn't Enzo play most games for Chelsea, and was excellent last night. Bellingham criticising Pickford was totally out of order, the now 'world class' player did nothing except clip an Argentinian player's ear after the game.

Tuchel copying Southgate's tactics, bringing off attacking players for extra defenders, was the problem. I still can't understand why Mainoo has not been given any minutes?

"Keep the good bits, eliminate the dull, mundane and mediocre bits, and start concentrating on teaching our children to be better on the ball."

That should be the first thing they should be coaching the kids in Tony, be comfortable and relaxed in possession. Too much emphasis on power and strength in youth football.

My 10 cents:

Pickford will be disappointed to be beaten in that area of the goal, from that range. The closing down was poor, so the bigger blame goes to the statues in front of him in my opinion. He was unsighted by at least 3 or 4 players.

I thought Konsa needed to do more for the second. He hasn't had a great World Cup, and has exposed the defence to be pretty average. Guilty of ball watching again for me, rather than putting his body on the line. I contrast that to a brilliant Stones defensive header earlier.

Madness to give Messi that amount of space. I think Spence was knackered, but the decision to defend that deep had brought it on. No problem seeing the game out, but pack the midfield out.

The final bit. Bellingham and Kane have exposed there is a void of genuinely world class talent. They perhaps didn't have their best games, but the rest showed they're miles behind laying a glove on the elite of world football. Think that is 10 matches they've been knocked out in a row against top 10 teams.

Final bit: Messi... What a player, an absolute freak.

I think Jordan could have been better positioned for the first goal and had a couple of braindead moments with the ball at his feet.

But what annoyed me the most from him and often does was that when he had crosses flying across him from both sides not once did he come out to claim one.

Why don't we talk about the great saves Pickford made to keep the score down, or the fact the defence was all over the place for both goals. How did their player get that header in between two 6-ft plus players?

As for the manager playing six defenders for the last half hour or so? No... just have a go at Pickford instead.

Fuck the England team. I hope Pickford retires from international football... let's see how they do then!

Beckham.
Batty.
Saka.
Pickford.

Same happens in every tournament.
Get built up as "It's Coming Home"... then choose a target to blame.

In my opinion, an international player to criticize a teammate who is in one of the most critical positions in the team, is the lowest of the low and should look at his own performance before being critical of a team mate.

He may have scored a couple of goals in previous games but in them the keeper has kept them in the games. Grow up and support your team's players.

My question is why was Messi, who has provided crosses that have won Argentina previous games, left unmarked?

The biggest culprits in all of this are the England football fans. Give them measured technical football every Saturday and it would be like trying to get a crowd of Yanks to turn up to watch cricket. They simply wouldn't do it.

The Premier League caters for its customers. Those customers demand 90 minutes of high-octane crash bang wallop. They traded action for skill decades ago and yet they don't understand why our players can't keep control of the football. to see out a game.

We're as bad as any of them. My toes still curl when I think of John Stones having to tell about a thousand Park End Panic Merchants to calm the fuck down.

We relish the tribal culture among our clubs. Fans and players of rival clubs hate each other. Yet we expect them to demonstrate the kind of unity we see between the players of teams like Argentina.

Squeeze every ounce of energy from your players. Bollock the living daylights out of them if they are caught on the ball as youngsters and make it clear to them from a very early age that athleticism will get you further than skill.

The most competitive league in the world... or a top class international side? The people in our cities clearly prefer the former. Unless you come from towns like Bedford or Melton Mowbray, you only ever watch England when there is no proper footy on.

Darren, absolutely spot on.

I cringe with embarrassment at some fans when they see Tarkowski with his blood and thunder uncultured garbage and think it's brilliant when he throws his weight around.

Ross Barkley was absolutely hammered because he didn't chase around the pitch like a puppy with a ball. Lukaku the same.

I couldn't give a toss if he sat in a deck chair and only moved when the ball came to him, the lad put the ball in the net.

Gana is another one, he gets fans drooling with his his non-stop harrying and ball winning abilities but to me its pointless if he gives it away all the time; his shooting is abysmal as well.

We need players who are comfortable on the ball and that is why Grealish was a breath of fresh air... the lad takes care of the ball.

I think we could do with a mentality change.

It's rare for young players to consistently get game time in the Premier League, Darren, because of the reasons you mention.

Athleticism and physicality are some of the biggest commodities required if you're going to make a career in the big league in England. I also think that, if England are ever going to succeed on the biggest international stage, then the players need to become even more athletic and physical.

We all see a different game: my view was that Argentina were running harder than England last night, but I thought England looked the more physical team in most areas of the pitch... until they scored and then suddenly decided they were only interested in defending their lead.

I still think that it's what our players are being taught in their early years that isn't good enough. When I looked at the other three semi-finalists, they are all much more fluent and quicker technically on the ball.

We are taught to play forward, they are taught to play short. When England play short, it's usually in areas that are not that dangerous because it involves a lot of passing going backwards, but often when the foreign teams play short, it is in the more dangerous areas of the pitch.

We have got better, but we are still a little bit behind with regards the final hurdle. Although I personally thought Tuchel got things badly wrong last night, reading what he is saying about his players, and English football in general, it sounds like he might be worth persevering with.

Whenever I was in the changing room, "Get it and play it until it comes out your fucking ears", was a phrase that was used before every single game by the great Brian Clough. Another phrase that is commonly used is that football is a simple game -- but only when it is simplified.

Pass and move, pass and move, pass and move. Enjoy the ball, enjoy having the ability to keep the ball, and above everything else, learn to appreciate that it's what you do off the ball that makes things a lot easier for whichever teammate is in possession of the football!

Darren (174) I’ve said it before a few times when Stones was given stick it was because he was dribbling around in his six yard area versus Stoke City we were winning 3-2 at the time and in that game Stones gave a penalty away and got caught in another incident— we lost that game 4-3.

Lukaku always wanted the ball given to him he had a go at Del Boy in one game telling him with his action pass the ball to me Del Boy answered him back by signalling well move into space for the pass and they understood each other as later Del Boy put a peach of a pass into the penalty area and Lukaku moved onto it and scored— we won 4-1.

Barclay never improved or kept making the same mistakes but standing still after losing the ball was one thing that got the fans worked up about him.

John Stones was a very good player but you can’t dribble around your own six yard area, Lukaku could score very good individual goals but he was very slow, at times, in anticipation what his teammates next moves were.

Barkley got better as he got older and had a good season with Luton when they got relegated and also with Villa but was hit and miss with Everton.
I think the majority of Everton fans will always be impressed by good football ability when they see it even if it is played by the opposition but will call out really stupid mistakes when they see it by our own players.

Paul Hewey (147): yes, you do go on about this all the time (not a good thing in this case that I would have reminded folks of).

You do realise that the percentage of English players in the PL hovers around one-third?

How to surrender the initiative when your opposition has to chase the game:-

Take your fastest player and goalscorer off and replace with a defender.

He should have took Kane off, and replaced him with Watkins.

Cant have any of that Dave.

Stones showed great composure by not just launching it Tarkowski style. He was not dispossessed nor did he give away a corner. Those screaming at him are the very people who overlook Tarkowski's numerous errors and jump up shaking their fist when he makes a last ditch tackle or puts it in row Z.
Stones did not give away a penalty. Clattenburg did. Numerous angles watch on highlights proved that Stones's challenge was a brilliant one. Clettenburg took about half an hour to point to the spot. He knew it wasnt a penalty.
As for him getting caught in another incident ? I don't know where you got that one from.

I mention Tarkowski because I know you are a big defender of him and because the comparison to him and Stones perfectly illustrates my point. One a footballer. The other "A proper mans defender"
While one has won numerous trophies home and abroad playing highly technical football for the best club and manager. The other has spent his career fighting relegation for the likes of Moyes and Dyche.

The Park end panic merchants showed a degree of ignorance that day and they continue to show it every time they rise to their feet to shake their fists at another Tarkowski last ditch block. Classic EPL mentality.

I think they've been more fluent on the ball for decades Tony. Englqnd have made in roads, but there is still a chasm to over come.

Going forward you can see the problems. No striker to follow Kane, goalkeepers look a huge issue after Pickford, centre backs are a million miles off being genuinely world class, a lack of depth at left back. Christ that is half a team.

I stand by that only Kane & Bellingham could get into any other top semi finalist side. That just isn't enough. It is the same issue with Everton when the demand goes up for trophies. Both need more players that you can see a medal hanging from their neck, rather than a bunch of support cast losers.

Perhaps Saka, Rice and James are those players. They're all good enough in the premier league, but either look exhausted or unable to stay fit through a tournament.

The rest are good, but not great players. The depth just isn't there. Trafford, Henderson, Quansah, Burn, Konsa, Guehi, Chalobah, Henderson, Mainoo, Madeueke, Toney, Eze, Watkins, Spence, Rodgers, Anderson arent laying a glove on France, Spain or Argentina. Id struggle to see them having enough to get out the group.

Laurie@179; "He should have took Kane off, and replaced him with Watkins."

No mate, Tuchel could've done many things Except what he did.

With 25 mins plus add ons he should've left it exactly as it was, kept on doing what so obviously was working for another 10 or 15 mins.

During that 4th quarter (Aargh I've been Americanised) continuously assessing who was starting to struggle - if indeed any are, are they holding firm, setting the opposition as many problems as they're posing us, keeping the shape etc,etc.

But no, we got the worst German tactical decision since Hitler decided to invade Russia.

A Final appearance was there for the taking...beating Spain? well that's another story - but if you're there, well who knows.

Tuchal should be sacked forthwith.

Caution over freedom. Elise left Crystal Palace, to sign for Bayern Munich and has flourished. Eze, left the same club, to sign for Arsenal, has won a premier league game and played in a champions league final (did he play?) but my own personal opinion is that his game has gone backwards because Arteta, chooses caution over freedom.

I used to take my stepson to Bury, when he was really struggling with that knee problem that teenager’s suffer from called osgood-schlatter. Going off subject he never really played because of this but it turned out to be a very valuable experience for the kid, and something I give him a lot of credit for now because he took it on himself to learn some valuable lessons that have stood him in good stead since.

Anyway back to the football, which was as tedious as sitting in a waiting room, waiting forever to hear your name called out. One of the other kids grandads, used to have me smiling every single week and was definitely much better entertainment than watching the football.

I come here every week Tony, because I love watching my grandson playing football, but I shouldn’t really come because it is as frustrating as anything I’ve ever had to watch in my life. It’s boring, the kids aren’t being encouraged to express themselves, everything they are being asked to do is completely robotic, honestly mate I don’t know what benefit the kids are getting out of this because everything just seems to be about doing what the coach demands.

Elise has flourished, Eze looks like he has no longer got any confidence in playing his natural game. How many talented kids have been destroyed by completely pragmatic coaching over the years, when you look at the changes in Eze, who no longer looks like he his enjoying his football, at all?

I might be wrong but I watched Eze, playing for England about 15 months ago and he looked like the most talented player on the pitch because he was constantly trying to play forward and was always following his pass. I look at him now and the forward drive that made him so exciting to watch has completely disappeared, imo.

Darren (180), Darren you could compare Stones with most Everton centre backs since he was here and he would be better than most of them I was talking about that one particular game when he deservedly got plenty of stuck not just from the Park end and he got that stick twice and I was one of them from the Upper Bullens Road stand.

Yes he’s better than Tarkowski, much better than the Tarkowski of last season but where was this brilliant footballer the other night along with the other senior professionals didn’t he have enough nous to organise his defence, Tarkowski is a rough and ready centre back but he would have been organising that team better than all those English players the other night.

Eze did play in extra time in the CL Final Tony and missed one of the penalties.

Tony has highlighted it about coaching, it has it's place especially for the defending side of the team, but straight-jacking attackers is bound to limit the talent they may possess.

I thought Spains performance was what we should be training youngsters to reproduce, it was a masterclass of close control and quick pass and move.

Our youngsters should be as physically able as any other country but they have historically lacked that close control that some other countries have. That must be partly down to how our kids are taught to play and the kids own skill training efforts.

When Stones got the ball the other night it looked like he was the one player who Argentina, had already decided to, just let him have the ball. I thought he was brilliant until he tired, (I’m certain he would have got a flick on the cross that delivered the winning goal, otherwise) but I always think he his head and shoulders above most players because of his fantastic composure.

I’m not sure he would have come through at Everton, if David Moyes, hadn’t have left for Manchester United though, especially because I’m sure Moyes, would have been like the other Dave, sitting in the Upper Bullens, but I remember the first time Stones, told the Park End, to calm down, because I was sitting in the Upper Bullens myself that day, and I was smiling to myself thinking, “you can’t play like that here kid, because people are just not on your wavelength” we all see a different game!

Talk of Stones returning on a free.
How do you think the Moyesiah would react if he did similar to the night he calmed the Park End down?

JUST GET FUCKIN SHUT LAD

Tony that's a good point about Eze, I think you're right.

Tony (187),

Stones would have stick at most grounds playing like that, you just don't fuck about like that so close to your own goal.

And let's be honest, Stones, as good as he is, has made quite a few cock ups playing for City by his casualness.

Derek 182. Arguably the worst sub decision made by an England manager was SIr Alf taking off Bobby Charlton in the 1970 QF against Germany. The difference I guess was that England were 2-0 up at the time and Bobby - England’s oldest player - needed a break (in later interviews Beckenbauer said that had he been England manager he might have made the same decision).
In contrast Tuchel’s sub decisions seemed naive and gave the Argies even more encouragement. Surely they could have tried to man-mark Messi in the last 20 mins rather than give him the freedom of the pitch?
That said, the players are not totally blame-free as after scoring they seemed to stop attacking.

Darren @ 174, that is a brilliant post.

Tarkowski is at that stage now where he tries to hide his declining physical ability by throwing his weight around and confronting opposition players - Ashley Williams did exactly the same thing. Stones is still a Rolls-Royce of a player, as he showed against Argentina despite not being up to full fitness.

Tony @ 183, I love Eze and it has been sad to see him so drained of confidence after 12 months at Arsenal. He should never have signed for a club where the manager is so structured in defining a player’s position onfield at all times, which is making most modern football boring.

Sometimes, I think he might have done better to go to Spurs where he could have enjoyed the freedom to play his natural game.

Your spot on Mike @ 191, England were well on top in that Germany game when he took Charlton off the game changed completely.

Putting all the blame on Tuchel as others have done is to fudge the players display, the Argies were all over us before he made the changes.

I watched what Souness said about the game, OK he's a Scot, a red and all that but he knows what he's talking about, he said much the same that the England players went into defence mode when we scored. He said he thought Rice and Anderson were a big part of why England lost, they failed to supply our forwards well enough.

The team scrapped results out to get to the semi but they didn't impress with the quality of their performances skill wise.

Raymond #193. I’ve not seen the Souness comments, but I always thought the Rice / Anderson midfield was a combination that limited options- particularly against the better sides. I know that nether Foden or Cole Palmer have had their best seasons but both offer something different and can operate on tight spaces.
Before the tournament started the top 4 ranked teams in the world were the 4 x semi-finalists. England were ranked 4th so they matched their expectations.
Overall I thought it a poor-average tournament. Increasing the no of teams has not helped the quality.

Having Stones at the back with a fit Branthwaite would completely revolutionise this team.

Kevin, I'm not sure two players who seem to spend more time on the physios bench than playing is the best tactic.

Especially if you're depending on them as your central defensive partnership.

Andrew, yes you could never depend on that pairing.

There is no reason though why you would not want both in your squad.

So would you have Stones back for next season Tony #187.

I always thought that Graeme Souness, spoke as much sense as any pundit, so one of the first things I would have asked him after hearing his view on Rice and Anderson, would have been for his views on England, basically playing without a centre forward, once the competition started hotting-up.

I’m not sure about Stones, Eric, but if we could keep Branthwaite fit, then some would say we don’t need him, whilst others would say you can’t have enough good players, and they might play well together.

It could give us more options, a back three of O’Brien, Stones and Branthwaite, with wingbacks, might work in certain games, and because you can never have enough good players in your squad, then I’d lean towards a yes!

I think one of the main reasons we lost to Germany in that 1970 World Cup game happened before the game started when Gordon Banks pulled out with an illness and Peter Bonetti replaced him

Bonetti made a couple of blunders in that game which Muller pounced on close to goal... well, I'm sure Muller got one of them.