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The size of the Loop?

By Chris Dawson :  01/08/2007 :  Comments (13) :
After weeks and weeks of studious deliberation and agonising over what would be the right decision for our great football club over the Kirkby move, I have to say that I was (and still am) undecided on the issue.

To further cloud the already muddy waters the 'Loop' proposal reared its head backed up by Lyndon's highly emotive article. On reading the article and its description of how things could be if only we took the plunge definately swayed both my head and my heart.

Anyhow back to the point of my article... Having slept on it and mulled it over for a couple of days (along with a good number of hours of further reading) my head was starting to fall into the 'is the Loop too small?' However, on my way to get the lottery tonight (wishful thinking!!!) a brainwave occured, how about looking at the footprint of Goodison and the Loop on a map to see how they compare in size! So this I have done with a screenshot of each of the sites (both taken from Streetmap and both at the same scale) along with an overlay of one over the other.

To say it is a tight squeeze is no joke, however Goodison is an old structure whose footprint with a modern stadium would hold many more fans. With some careful planning and architecture I actually think it may be achievable, but this is something you will have to take a look at and decide for yourselves...

Reader Comments

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Dave Thompson
1   Posted 01/08/2007 at 20:51:14

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The stadium would not have to fit inside the road boundary of the loop.

The supports for the stands could be on the other side of the road, with the road running beneath (like Old Trafford).


I am looking forward to seeing the proper drawings at St George’s Hall on Friday, although they might be online before then.
Lyndon
Editorial Team
2   Posted 01/08/2007 at 20:41:24

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As an addendum to your piece, Chris, Atletico Madrid?s situation appeals to both sides of the "Loop" argument:
This aerial shot of their current stadium shows that you can run a 4-lane highway under a stand. But the club and council have agreed to move to a much bigger stadium on the outskirts of Madrid as part of the city?s Olympic bid.

Of course, with that kind of backing they?re likely to be getting a world-class facility to compensate for leaving their current site. And I can?t speak at all for the hard-core Atletico supporter?s views on the new location and how badly they?d want to stay closer to the city centre if they could.

But every club is different, culturally, historically, financially, emotionally ? "we don?t care what the Spaniards say?" ? so who knows how many parallels can be drawn. Manchester City got a brand new ground on the back of another national sporting venture but many of their fans will say the place has no atmosphere or soul...

Steve Pugh
3   Posted 01/08/2007 at 22:36:00

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Thanks for clearing that up Chris. You have allowed my imagination to run wild in the knowledge that anything is possible. Imagine people coming into Liverpool through the tunnel. The first thing they see is Evertons iconic stadium acting as a gateway to the city. Even better as they drive through a tunnel under the stands, blue and white walls with the everton crest proudly welcoming them into the city. The stadium would have underground parking, built on top of the carpark you will find a floor of pubs, restaurants conference facilities and of course the mega store (all of which are open seven days a week naturally). Finally on top of this layer (and above the level of the road so that nasty pollution doesn’t settle) would be the stadium itself, and by having the stands over the road a capacity of 70,000 at somepoint would not be beyond possibility, and the new Goodison could be hosting European finals.
A dream I know, without serious investment it could never happen. Its a shame that no millionaires support Everton. They could club together and buy us a stadium. Oh well, dream on.
rodger cropera
4   Posted 02/08/2007 at 00:20:42

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Just to give an idea of the size and scale of the site, this is how Goodison Park fits into The Loop

Jim Lloyd
5   Posted 01/08/2007 at 23:57:37

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Steve,
What you appear to be saying is, "Don’t even think of an alternative to Kirkby because there ain’t one." Well I’d just like to make sure that there aren’t, before casting my vote. A lot of people are putting a tremendous amount of work in here, with no support from the club, to provide us with the best option available for the future of our club.There is so much at stake here, both for the club and its supporters, that I want to know what is being offerd besides the Tesco deal. I don’t believe that particular deal is to our benefit, I think we are in danger of losing our link with the city and therefore with future supporters. Hard to prove, I know but I couldn’t see any major business contemplating a move which may prove injurious, not doing any sort of market research into the possibible effect that move might have, on it’s fan base.I cannot believe that a board of a multi million pound business would leave it to it’s fans to decide what to do, if that board itself, did not have some profound doubts about this move. My belief is that Mr Kenwright sees this as an easy answer, to what is a difficult problem i.e. how do we progress.
I don’t believe that we are the only major club not to have had enquiries regarding investment and I think that Mr kenwright has given us the vote in case things go tits up. If Kirkby turns out to be the nightmare I dread it will be, then good old Bill can turn round and say " Well, don’t blame me, you all vote for it."
So, to finish, I wish to god that when people who are good Evertonians are trying to provide us with some alternatives, we will at least give them the opportunity to provide us with what the club ought to have done in the first place VIABLE OPTIONS. Then we can vote.
stu123
6   Posted 02/08/2007 at 00:54:04

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as a red who probably has no valid opinion in your eyes allow me to project my views, if LFC were to move out of the City I would be aghast that we were surrendering the city to EFC as should be the same for you evertonians. Everton wrongly or rightly should always be part of the city(as much as i will gloat, given the opotunity If Liverpool becomes a one city club) but the city is famous for having two great clubs(as long as LFC are the greater) but bias aside Tesco do not build stadiums out of the goodisoness of their heart they are a public company with loyalties only to shareholders and if there short term projectsions of profits are to the detriment of EFC as a whole their shareholders will not shed a tear. Please stand up for your club as a Liverpool institution( which unfortunatley they are) otherwise due to the lack of future attendance studies and their non predictionn gaurantees I fear your club may die within twenty years as city lads will have only one club to support, and I for one would miss the banter, derbies etc etc
even a red can see this is not right so surley your BS will at least maybe tke small wait in mediocratie than give up long trm future of your famous club. PS as a red i went to goodison on my21st as my mates were EFC if you move to kirkby how many future reds will say that.
stu123
7   Posted 02/08/2007 at 00:54:04

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as a red who probably has no valid opinion in your eyes allow me to project my views, if LFC were to move out of the City I would be aghast that we were surrendering the city to EFC as should be the same for you evertonians. Everton wrongly or rightly should always be part of the city(as much as i will gloat, given the opotunity If Liverpool becomes a one city club) but the city is famous for having two great clubs(as long as LFC are the greater) but bias aside Tesco do not build stadiums out of the goodisoness of their heart they are a public company with loyalties only to shareholders and if there short term projectsions of profits are to the detriment of EFC as a whole their shareholders will not shed a tear. Please stand up for your club as a Liverpool institution( which unfortunatley they are) otherwise due to the lack of future attendance studies and their non predictionn gaurantees I fear your club may die within twenty years as city lads will have only one club to support, and I for one would miss the banter, derbies etc etc
even a red can see this is not right so surley your BS will at least maybe tke small wait in mediocratie than give up long trm future of your famous club. PS as a red i went to goodison on my21st as my mates were EFC if you move to kirkby how many future reds will say that.
stu123
8   Posted 02/08/2007 at 01:23:04

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i went to goodison as my EFC mates demanded that they couldnt meet up till after the match petebrough 1-1 2000 no mistical pull or nothin but for godsake kenright is after the kudos and not interested in investment which upsurps his dominance thats why EFC have been ignored in the prem gold rush and even as a red the likes of wigan pompey and even totnaham being above everton is abhornet
Alex K
9   Posted 02/08/2007 at 00:38:24

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Using Google Earth I made a few measurements and found that the Vicente Calderón Stadium (capacity 54,851) has been built on a (slightly) smaller area than the Bestway site. However, has it been accepted that the proposed stadium that is to be built in an oval shape? According to Wikipedia, Vicente Calderón Stadium is one of only 27 UEFA stadiums (only Old Trafford in England with this rating ? Emirates not there?).

From Atletico’s ground to the Plaza De Espana, generally considered a central part of Madrid, is 1.54 miles away. Bestway to St Johns Beacon is 0.8 miles, 1.1miles to Liver Building, and 1.54 miles to King’s Dock.
Steve Pugh
10   Posted 02/08/2007 at 06:02:26

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Jim, you get me all wrong. I really want the loop to work, but I need to hear about investment before I will allow myself to believe in it. You say that you don’t believe we have had no enquiries from potential investors. I say I don’t believe BK could keep a serious investor hidden, if I was wanting to take over a club like Everton I would make sure the media knew about it. So if we don’t have a single major investor what do we have? We have the fans, some of whom are incredibly rich, now I hear lots of poorer fans offering a hundred quid, even a grand. Why not ask the super rich to donate a million each, I’m sure the club would find proper investors if the fans started putting together a package.
Chris L
11   Posted 02/08/2007 at 11:38:48

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Lets be realistic about this "loopy" idea. I hate to think of the actual cost of construction of this stadium (and who would pay for it???). I would also like to see a police security opinion of this venue. Stuck in the middle of a roundabout seems like an accident waiting to happen at full time!

The Loop idea seems like some last minute attempt by some to justify staying somewhere close to the current stadium. We need to look forward and we need to be realistic. Kirky is available now, realistic and takes the club forward in the future.
Terrymarsbar
12   Posted 02/08/2007 at 13:20:59

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1st of all let me say that i am in favour of the move to kirkby.
Mainly because, not being a season ticket holder I am generally stuck behind a post, queue for 20 mins to have a piss..(god forbid I need a shite) and need to miss the last 15 mins of the 1st half if i want food and drink...Parking is poor, the streets are lined with dogshit..and the majority of the seats are wooden boards that make my piles worse.
I have to add: I have always loved going to Goodison(36 years man and boy) it has a certain magic about it..memories more than anything..and if it could have been developed so every stand was as good as the park end..and we could afford it, while keeping the club up to scratch on the field..well I wouldnt have looked twice at Kirkby,:
BUT...if all the above was possible , I dont think the club would have looked twice at Kirkby either..
Over the years I have travelled to the game by Foot, train , bus, and car..and its never been the most accessable place..no parking if you come by car..unless you get there by public transport (10 min walk from Kirkdale station) or you live within walking distance..
Many people have complained about the transport links to Kirkby..but they (already) are far better than those to Goodison,and they will be improved if we go there...!!
The loop site , while being within the "magical" city boundry..does seem to bring its own difficulties..To walk there from say, the city centre is a nightmare(at the moment) To drive there..again ..a nightmare..especially when the tunnels are jammed with traffic..or the roads into the city packed...No train station within a reasonable distance..and again ...once you have fitted(if viable) a stadium in there ..where do you park.??...But most importantly..and head before heart time now..wherever we go it must be paid for...and currently , our only benefactor is Tesco and Knowsley council..
Bestway , to my knowledge have not put forward any figure towards building a stadium and the infrastructure..and LCC have been sitting on the arses (even prior to the period of exclusivity)apart from ensuring LFC got plenty of Euro funding..and a park to build in...
I dont think we should even have a vote...just build it..because we have to..unthinkable that some people on here actually advocate sitting on our arses for the next 5 years and "HOPE" something closer to the Wimslow comes along..We must move forward ..we must move to Kirkby..
I think I will save a lot of the comments from these debates and archive them for say 8 years..
i just wonder if the dodgy banner crowd will want to be reminded of them then..
Jim Lloyd
13   Posted 02/08/2007 at 20:36:17

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My apologies Steve, I must be getting paranoid. It’s only what I heard,so can’t prove it but the group who invested in Villa, were interested in us first but were told we are not for sale. I’ve also heard that whoever it is who owns Canary Wharf are interested but we will just have to wait and see if there is any substance to the rumour.
Until then, we are left with a decision to make and my view is that I would want to see all the evidence/options that are available. I really don’t understand the comments like the one above. I can understand that they want to go to Kirkby, but don’t understand why they appear to want deride any Evertonian who wants to stay in the City. I want to make sure that every possible alternative to Kirkby is available for us to consider before just leaving Goodison and the City.
For those who don’t think it it will make any difference to our fan base if we leave the city, I just say I hope to god that you are right. For me,I believe that our support will erode over time and Liverpool kids will grow up to support LFC.
I disagree with almost everything that terrymars bar has written. How on earth he believes the transport links are better in Kirkby, I just do not know. However, there is one thing I do agree with. He doesn’t believe we should have a vote. Neither do I. What we are left with is, we have fallen into two camps with little chance of either camp convincing the other of the rightness of their cause. Considering Kenwrights track record, I don’t have much faith in the man to take Everton forward. NTL, Fortress Sports, The King’s Dock (what a bloody tragedy and bloody cock up) The American investors he accused Gregg of frightening away... and now this. My god, the biggest decision since we left Anfield and he gives us a ballot. However, the ballot has to be completed without having any details as to why there are no alternatives (he sounds like Maggie Thatcher) Any other possible project had to be put on ice while the period of exclusivity lasts. We have never tried a fans share issue. I think that happened at Celtic and their ground is something else. We have never tried to se if the satdium could be funded inpart by the fans, at least I’ve never heard if thats been put forward.
As a cynical bugger, I think that if the board really felt that this deal was in fact, the deal of the century, they have been irresponsible.
By putting it to the fans to vote on, the board can absolve themselves from any blame if the leaving of Liverpool turns out to the disaster so many of us fear. To have no plan B is just gobsmackingly unprofessional. I would hope that our club would look at all options that are available before taking this particular option.

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