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Please, Think of Our Children

By Ian Macdonald :  05/08/2007 :  Comments (83) :


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As I write this on the eve of the most momentous week of our Everton lives I feel great sadness. This week the voting ballot papers will fall through our letter box, we will open them expecting to tick a box in a few seconds. Please, please stop and think what your ?X? mark will mean to the future of Everton and future Evertonians. Make a decision that you can really put your head on the pillow and think I?ve done the right thing not a selfish for here and now vote but for our children and their children.

This Kirkby proposal is short term gain with long term pain.

Emotions are running high, we are passionate Evertonians, if we take emotion out of the debate then please take up chess.

I?m sad about the events of the last few weeks when really I should be happy about the best team in years and European football beckoning us. I?ll explain .All I have seen and heard pre-season is Evertonians wrestle with what the future holds which for many will be life changing.

I have a great friend called Barry Murray, a rough diamond who lives and breathes Everton ? in fact his four children are named after former players (even his daughter Toni is named after Tony Cottee) ? he has not missed a game anywhere for over 20 years and has run out of skin space for tattoos Everton-related. He wells up with emotion like the last time we won the cup and says to me ?Ian, I love this club but if they take us to Kirkby for their own self-interest I?m not going anymore. It will break my heart but I will feel betrayed and my children will be abandoned by the club.?

Barry lives in Southdene, Kirkby. He has no vote. Why? Because he spends all his free money travelling the length and breadth of the country organising coaches to follow the Blues. An extreme and isolated case? No a frightening common theme running throughout the Everton hard core, you know the ones who don?t question the board or the manager?s tactics too much and pour scorn on anyone booing the team but will support the team on a cold winter?s night at a far flung venue in the League Cup. I?ve heard of season tickets will be sent back and future games picked if we get sent to Kirkby.

The Everton extended family is in turmoil, fearful of what is to become of us .I ask a simple question? Who is this stadium really for? Is it for a desperate board devoid of money and real ambition? Selling us off to Kirkby for selfish reasons to maximise their share value .Will the present CEO and custodians be with the fans left by the  Kirkby move in this ?nice stadium? on a retail park in five years time .Make no mistake this crime of the century will be called in and the initial ?free stadium?, (now its costing us £50 million plus), will increase in cost at least another £30million. Steel prices are going through the roof. The land where our new home is to be placed was landfill and the foundation costs could soar.

Everything we have been told by our sales-pitch owners changes almost daily. We were acquiring 9,000 car spaces on the retail park now its 1,000. So, if you live a few miles away you will have to drive to a car park (with a fee) then get on a coach (with a fee) watch the game and en masse after the final whistle wait in hour-long queues to get on a coach to pick up your car wait in another queue to get out of the car park to your home destination. The fabled trams and new train station will not cope according to experts on transport in the Mersey region.

The world-class stadium initially promised is now a "nice" stadium ? ask yourself is this stadium presented to us worthy of the fourth most successful team in English football; we're not a Bolton or Coventry, we're Everton. The price we are quoted to build this stadium says a lot of its finished style and quality.

Bringing the existing playing staff to endorse our move is a bit below the belt and I thought we did things the Everton way. Hardly anyone in the present first team will be with us in five years' time, Beatties gone already. And just who scripted their quotes and how could they say anything else if they did say it, they are employees. Another nail in many fans' coffin of Everton to do this.

Fear factors used by the PR machine say Goodison will fall down soon and we will end up playing Marine. The reds are building a new stadium across the road. Do we want to see this? No let?s cower away on the edge of the city, eh? Would our newest fan, Rocky, do this? Run away from a fight to keep the hearts, minds and souls of future generations in this City? Make no mistake, we will not grow in Kirkby but erode. We have the biggest walk-up attendance in the league and the best dispersal rate of fans, why are we making it harder for our fans?

Ten million pounds extra for team building in Kirkby! Based on what business plans shown to the fans? By the way, £10 million in five years' time might get us an average left back if we're lucky.
A new stadium will not make us compete to the level to which we aspire, only big backers with money will accomplish this. If we're skint now finishing sixth, how will we survive to get to this fabled site in Kirkby? We need financial help right now ,today!

And therein lies our problem. Money.

Our board has never put one penny of extra investment in our club, just paid the bank for Mr Johnson?s shares. In the fast pace and money-driven Premiership we have a mansion but try to live there on a working man's wage. Only Moyes's magic wand has put us in European football, not our custodians. We have the smallest squad in the history of the Premiership just now, net spending in the last seven years averages out at just three million. Ask yourself why? We budget for 17th place, we finished an admirable sixth adding to our spending power with £500,000 per place. We get given £35 million by the great God Sky yet tonight we are in a plus-monies in with two players and less than a week away to kick off. Relegated Sheffield Utd have spent more than us with eight strikers now to choose from.

An indication that we have no real money still after Moyes's exploits. God help us next season if we finish mid-table. Our best players will be sold as we?ve sold everything else, even the new Academy. We have only Goodison left which is costed at £7 million in the Everton stadium accounts but £14 million on the company accounts to make our holdings look better. Let's be honest, the fee quoted that Goodison to be sold will secure us £15 million is over-optimistic at best. Where will we get this fee, Narnia? The naming rights for £35 million? Arsenal only get three million a year from the Emirates over ten years, the rest is for shirt sponsorship. That?s a London team consistently in the Champions League.

All our PR spin is like a wish list for Father Christmas. Where is the detail to back up their claims? Where is the stadium detail? This project is over 18 months in the making and we're shown what? A lit-up stadium at night that anyone could have Photoshop'ed from a stadium in Europe.
Why do we feel were being rushed into something we will regret?

We're told we are special in that we will have a vote on our future. If the deal and stadium was as great as we were initially told, why are our custodians not just making the decision for us? When you buy Everton you should show leadership and vision. Did we vote for the magical Kings Dock? No, the vote is a double indemnity passing the buck so to speak when it goes horribly wrong if we move. What major company would accept a 51% mandate to move, disenfranchising thousands of fans? Maybe a desperate company?

We're told there is no plan B. Goodison cannot be re-developed and that the council has not helped us with no land available. Well, we all know now this is not the case. A group of caring Evertonians picked up those terse statements and the gauntlet, spent hundreds of hours and their own money to get real alternatives.

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I take my hat off to KEIOC. I went to the exhibition last Friday, not in a pub or school hall but in the great building of St George's Hall. There I found detailed plans stage by stage to dispel the myth that Goodison cannot be done. Did the owners of Spurs, Villa, Celtic, Rangers, Chelsea, Newcastle and Man Utd say this as well? Or did their boards put their hands in their pockets for the future of the club in the best location, where they heralded from and made their name. They acquired planning permission and funding, had a real will and ambition, doing what was best for the fans not just them.

It struck me at St Georges, where would we want to parade our next trophy, here in the heart of our city or from Knowsley?s Civic hall?

The four thousand fans who came to view plan B and C came also in hope that a real alternative could be found, a holy grail to many of the pilgrims on Friday. I believe many will vote yes to Kirkby because of the club's spin of impending disaster and doom, a cruel way to treat our loyal supporters of the People?s club ? a banner that should be taken down in Kirkby if we go.

If this board is so skint then please move on and let someone else take up the baton to further us.
I?m thankful also to KEIOC for making sure that the Electoral society will count the votes of our destiny. The last vote we undertook was under suspicion.

I hope the local media give this week a word-for-word balanced view; they have a responsibility to its Blue readers not to be influenced by our club. Many fans are throwing mud already at our local papers citing the fact that they only give the club's PR spin. They will lose more readers and accountable if the vote is yes. So many fans last Friday thought there was only one side to our future, many left disgusted at the bias.

If the local media explore Bestway proposals then it?s a no brainier where our future lies. In Everton looking over the Mersey and St Rupert?s tower. An iconic setting at the gateway of the City centre with a statement to all visitors who we are: WE ARE EVERTON!

A club rich in history and tradition, a founder member of the Football League and a much-loved institution of the City, its roots based on the working man not based in Kirkby for corporate reasons. Incidentally, what corporate business would spend money seven miles from a vibrant growing City? Would you buy a pub in the City or one in Kirkby?

The new Kings Dock arena will be the aim for most business conferences not on the outskirts.
These naming rights... where would you get more money, Kirkby or a location seen by thousands of tourists and business people coming in from the planes and boats on the Mersey? You would hear the roar of a goal in the city centre just like when Dixie scored ?that? goal that gave him immortality.

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A banner on the Kop. Just the beginning?

I have said before if we leave to go to Kirkby, in five years' time everyone visiting our growing city will be met at Speke, Lime Street, Skellhorne Street and Lime Street with billboards proclaiming ?Welcome to Liverpool home of Liverpool FC and the Beatles?, job done. Erosion of our brand name in the city. Why should the LCC council and tourism board endorse another councils business?

I?ve met high powered representatives of Bestway and they mean business but need above all co-operation from Bill. It's deliverable. Our council will back this scheme and all political parties will transcend differences. It will re-generate a massive area coupled with Project Jennifer on Great Homer Street.

We had one fantastic opportunity in the Kings Dock lost, a quantum leap for our club that every red was envious of, (now they are laughing at us with the Tesco dome) but to be fair many proper reds tell me they truly don?t want us to leave the City. Its not Liverpool FC being the cuckoo in the nest but our own board.

Don?t do it Bill. I want you to use your vote to help this man to do the right thing. By voting No we have to explore the other options given to the club by concerned fans. I asked Bill, how does he want to be remembered. This deal and Goodison will ensure he will be remembered as a visionary custodian not pilloried for taking us out of the City. I don?t wish harm on Bill but he must do what?s right and take notice of what is on offer now, not be blinkered and swayed by non-Evertonians for personal gain.

Let?s not play cat and mouse with Bestway. Send a clear signal of intent to do what?s the best way for Everton long term and most of all think of our children please.

Say No to Kirkby and let?s be together, a powerful force.

Let?s have that feel good factor not one of division and fear. Let?s get back to supporting our team and manager.

Please take time on your vote delve more into options and say NO!

Ian Macdonald, Independent Blues 

PS ? This week I expect a last-minute seduction to the wavering fans with the likes of a director will put in £50 million for players if we say yes and add at least two players to our dangerously small squad. Please don?t be sucked in, think long term and think of who we really are. Maybe the Tesco deal was the best thing that happened because now there is a momentum to address our stadium issue. Let's continue this and explore and embrace the City plans.

Only a vote No to Kirkby will enable us to go the right way and buy time for our children?s future. Any doubts, vote NO over Kirkby and put your head on the pillow knowing you have done what?s right.

Reader Comments

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Derek Thomas
1   Posted 06/08/2007 at 06:12:51

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Game, Set and Match for me. Sort term gain for long term pain.

Q15 in the Toffeeweb survey should give BESTWAY encouragement If any is required.

Fred Stafford
2   Posted 06/08/2007 at 07:00:20

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Excellent piece i will vote NO! i think more blues are beginning to smell the coffee as the vote nears, the Bestway plan certainly needs to be looked at more closely as the way forward.
Mick Mac
3   Posted 06/08/2007 at 07:05:16

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Great article. I have to say I have been wondering why the board have this exclusivity agreement in place, preventing any other ideas to be put forward. I for one was for the Tesco idea, but when the voting papers come through the door I think I will vote no. I htink the idea of Everton displaying the cup or premiership in Kirkby or would it be Huyton or maybe Prescott wouldnt have the same impact as in Liverpool city centre. So Ian you have convinved me that voting no is the preferred option and let the cards fall as they may.
4   Posted 06/08/2007 at 07:34:04

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smell what coffee exactly? Stop thinking with your hearts and use your heads. KEIOC bloke said that they were thinking with their heads saying that they don’t want to betray years of tradition.

I’m sorry, but if that isn’t thinking with your heart I don’t know what is. I suppose you all go to church every week too?

I expect democracy to prevail and the authorities to do whatever they want to anyway, regardless of what a few parochial numpties think
5   Posted 06/08/2007 at 07:45:00

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’’Ian, I love this club but if they take us to Kirkby for their own self-interest I?m not going anymore. It will break my heart...’’

hopefully that sums up how most evertonians are feeling. i for one will be voting NO.

please dont send our club into oblivion
6   Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:01:35

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In a shock development on the ground relocation issue, an Everton spokesman yesterday confirmed that the club were in ’serious and ongoing talks’ with Leeds United to use their Elland Road ground for home fixtures.
The spokesman admitted that Elland Road was not, as yet, within the boundaries of the City of Liverpool, but said that neither was Goodison Park when originally built. He noted that Elland Road at least had two L’s in its name which was more than Goodison and that motorway access and parking were superior.
Negtoiations were taking place with the Yorkshire Playhouse for a new Production of Joseph which would be staged on the pitch and would feature famous songs such as Any Move Will Do; a new venture for the club which would bring in extra revenue.
When asked about loss of heritage, the spokesman smilingly suggested that many supporters could barely spell the word and were opn to arguments for the club’s development on the grounds they have no choice.
The spokesman, a Mr. Pol Pot, insists he has never shopped at Tesco.
7   Posted 06/08/2007 at 07:35:47

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I have never been a big fan of Ian Macdonald and I don’t know why as I am sure he is a decent enough bloke. However, credit where credit is due from someone who has sat on the fence on this very important life and future generation changing vote. I think his article was very well written and for those that are hovvering over voting NO it will probably convince them that NO is the right vote. I am not sure about "The Loop" because it has restricted access, looks like a small site and is being used for emotional purposes as much as Tescoville is. I think the most important reason for a NO vote is that we have not been given assurances that ALL other options have been considered and disregarded. If after receiving those reassurances it looks like Tescoville is the best for EFC and our future then so be it. But do not vote YES because of fear of the future. If Tescoville really is the best option then what is the hurry? It can afford to wait until EVERTONIANS are sure the deal is the RIGHT one rather than the ONLY one
8   Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:01:35

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In a shock development on the ground relocation issue, an Everton spokesman yesterday confirmed that the club were in ’serious and ongoing talks’ with Leeds United to use their Elland Road ground for home fixtures.
The spokesman admitted that Elland Road was not, as yet, within the boundaries of the City of Liverpool, but said that neither was Goodison Park when originally built. He noted that Elland Road at least had two L’s in its name which was more than Goodison and that motorway access and parking were superior.
Negtoiations were taking place with the Yorkshire Playhouse for a new Production of Joseph which would be staged on the pitch and would feature famous songs such as Any Move Will Do; a new venture for the club which would bring in extra revenue.
When asked about loss of heritage, the spokesman smilingly suggested that many supporters could barely spell the word and were opn to arguments for the club’s development on the grounds they have no choice.
The spokesman, a Mr. Pol Pot, insists he has never shopped at Tesco.
Brian Finnigan
9   Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:15:07

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Dean ? a self-confessed parochial numptie who attends Church, believes in God and the Club motto I really do detect a slight degree of panic in your posting. It is the yes-voters who appear to be running scared at the moment. I simply ask for a short period of reflection from all before they vote so that time is allowed for some flesh to appear on the Bestways proposal. If you are not prepared to wait a fortnight to vote then you do a great disservice to the Club. At the moment, even in advance of news from Bestways, I do not see the Kirkby proposal as being consistent with our motto and therefore I reside in the no-camp. Instead of lashing out at others with a different view to yourself, try to convince us of the merits of a yes vote.
10   Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:25:21

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Don’t get caught up in all this rediculous hype.
I went to St Georges Hall on Friday and my son (Aged 6) could have come up with better plans.
For god sake the ground has no roof on it and we’re going to build a hotel in the middle of Walton - who for?
Unfortunately, Kirkby is the only option, vote no and we watch their new ground being built, whilst we slowly die at Goodision.
Are we basing the future of this club on the worry that kopites might give us a bit of stick?
Vote no and we go nowhere fast.
robert carney
11   Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:16:47

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Congratulations Ian, a fantastic article. Hitting all the right spots.
The NO VOTE is definitly on a roll. You are right to expect a media barrage from Wyness this week. We all need to be ready to respond.

The message is clearly being sent to Blue Bill,Everton belong in the City Of Liverpool.

12   Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:41:32

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I am more p_issed off with Everton for putting this to the vote.

What other Mutli million pound business would ask it’s Customers whether they felt it was right to move premises or not.

We are the only club in the land to put ourselves in this ridiculous position.

If they want to move and they feel they know best, they should just do it. If some are unhappy so be it.

Everyone will come back, even these ’it will break my heart not to watch Everton again’ bridade.

My ar_e, will AG start to support Tranmere? or listen to Everton on the radio from now on.

Get a grip.

I don’t agree with the vote, cause it shouldn’t be happening, but remember on thing, we are voting on whether we move to Kirkby or stay at Goodison, not on Kirkby v’s plan A (pathetic), plan B (the loop????), plan C (not sure)
Gavin Ramejkis
13   Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:41:55

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Phil, hotel in Walton well try these two for size; how about away fans travelling to watch their team play against the RS why would they not stay? Just as damning why would anyone stay at a hotel in Kirkby? The article lends more to a reasonable debate if you acknowledge the stadium move vote is far too one sided, why no alternatives, even if they proved the alternatives were not possible?
14   Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:59:36

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Try this for size,

Why are we voting?

Are we different cos w’ere Everton?

If the powers that be want to move us, they should.

Just like every other club in the land that moves ground.
Gavin Ramejkis
15   Posted 06/08/2007 at 09:07:50

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Phil when you vote in elections do you vote for one candidate?
Gavin Ramejkis
16   Posted 06/08/2007 at 09:10:59

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cut me off mid typing to add Phil...with no alternative candidate?
17   Posted 06/08/2007 at 09:11:24

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This is not an election.

It is a business that is deciding to move its premises.

Why are we voting?

Only Everton ask their fans if it’s ok..........why???
Steve Pugh
18   Posted 06/08/2007 at 09:05:41

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What purile rubbish.

(No not your article Ian, that is spot on).

Phil, if the board had turned round and said we are moving to Kirkby, end of story and it has nothing to do with you, I bet you would have been on here saying how disgusted you are that they didn’t give the fans a say.
Gavin Ramejkis
19   Posted 06/08/2007 at 09:16:33

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You any idea why a vote Phil? I responded to your hotel question which you have since dropped. When a business puts forward a presentation to what could be seen as it’s shareholders by proxy; no fans no cash income, then it usually presents a full hit giving the pros and cons for it’s proposal. It’s a privately run business so they don’t have to have a vote but as the chairman claims to be "one of us" and football is a tribal and emotional environment; you have strong views as do many others even if you don’t agree, he is providing one.

Cynically by raising such a divisive issue the final decision would be removed from the person in control removing the blame culture from the losing block of fans aimed at the chairman but at their own winning block of fans, not exactly clever psychology but psychology none the less leaving the chairman with "clean hands."
20   Posted 06/08/2007 at 09:22:40

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Phil - no i wont start to support tranmere but yes i will stop going to the game...

i now await your, well your not an evertonian then, pathetic and negative attitude comments.

No phil, im blue through and through and for that reason i know what our clubs deserves and its not a shed in kirkby. ill always support everton but im not going to support the board and if they move us to kirkby i wont be helping to fill their pockets...

Alan Rodgers
21   Posted 06/08/2007 at 09:27:07

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Well said Ian. A very emotional piece on a very emotional subject. I will be praying for a big NO vote.
Anna Spencer
22   Posted 06/08/2007 at 09:10:34

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I’ve spent all weekend thinking about Everton, thinking about moving grounds and will Kirkby be good for us! im a swinger! i went on friday thinking i will vote yes, kirkby is our only option, no plan b, this is it do or die! then i saw that passionate, resourceless evertonians have come up with "possible" plan B’s and C’s!!! We were told there isnt even possibilities just a plain this or nothing and this simply isnt true! by saying no we will force our board into looking at these alternatives! ok they may not come off, be feasable, but they have to be looked at, if this site at bestway has been found, then im sure others like it can be found to! if efc do not explore these other possibilities and make me vote then i will have to vote no, not while there are other options to explore! if we’re such good buddies with Tesco, then im sure they’d welcome us back with open arms should the need be! 10 million more for players, to go along with the 4 million we spend these days! whoopey dooo!!! BK will up sticks once we move, with a nice fat profit in his back pocket! My heart said we cant miss out on a good opportunity such as tesco, for our future, my head now says we shouldnt just accept "its do or die" propoganda! we should just accept second best which kirkby will be! and its not even a border issue with me, we sing pride of merseyside, not liverpool after all, but think of what we had at kings dock, and but for 30mill and an inept board, we lost it, and think of what we’re being offered now, kirkby with tesco! sorry but its now a no vote for me! im not happy with the board, they lied to us, spin us what they want us to hear to help them, not us the fans, them the "business men" please say no, force their hand to go elsewhere and if elsewhere is too much money, it will at least then force bill to get someone in with money!!! 4 players out, 2 in (1 of which on loan!) 2 injured! dont be taken in by any player buying this week, like baines! its all nicely timed!
23   Posted 06/08/2007 at 09:38:17

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Goodison is a dump.

Plan a, b and c don’t exist.

I am thinking of my children, I want them to support everton and have the bext facilities available to them.

If it’s in Kirky so be it. it a shed in Kirkby becuase Warren Bradley says so?
Isn’t he the same Blue who has helped back Liverpool’s regeneration of Anfield but done nothing for Everton?

What is your basis of calling the new ground a shed? isn’t that what Goodison is?

24   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:17:06

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Well said Phil.
Brian Finnigan
25   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:08:14

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Phil ?......your son is going places and I don’t mean Kirkby! If he is capable of constructing a better plan for the reconstruction of Goodison at the age of six he ranks alongside Brunel and Stephenson. It’s a pity his father cannot read....the roof was dealt with in the written stuff not the pictures. Maybe the presentation could have been better but you could not say that there was a lack of detail....far more than the detail (both graphic and written)shown by Everton, Tesco and Knowsley relating to Project Kirkby. A little bit of patience and charity seem to be lacking in your character....I hope your son has not inherited your dismissive genes.
Gerard Madden
26   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:20:27

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As i said the other day - reading bleeding heart articles like this makes me ever more pleased the vote will be conducted in the comfort of our own homes with the clubs brochure on our laps with echo in eyeshot - most of this net nonesense from a small number of ’no’ fanatics won’t be seen by 99% of voting blues - thank god.
27   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:25:01

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Even if there ends up being a No vote I can guarantee one thing Everton will never move to the loop.
It will be the eqivalent of financial and business suicide.
The only reason why Bestway are even suggesing it is that it is a useless bit of land which they can’t do anthing with!!
Plus in addition i would rather Everton did not deal with a Pakistan Banking Corporation.
Dom L
28   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:25:43

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Ian, spot on - great article that really exposes the complete myth of Kirkby. I’m voting NO - I hope enough others do to avert this catastrophe.
29   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:27:19

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Phil - no its a shed coz it is a shed. check the brochure the clubs website, any photo u see of the ground theyve proposed.

Quite frankly i couldnt give a shit what Warren B called it, i dont need him to tell me what i think.

plan a,b and c dont exist because they havent been givin the opportunity too.

do you really think this is the best option for everton fc? goodison park isnt going to fall down by xmas. this is just the easy option which allows tight arse to keep hold of the club.

from the kings dock to how little ambition some people have
30   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:39:48

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AG, you talk about ambition, let me guess, you’d love a move to The Loop?

Well if that’s ambition, then I don’t want it. A bloody land-locked roundabout.

And regardless of whether we could ever actually afford it, if we did move there, do you think we’d actually get any corporate people coming in? Not with town and the Albert Dock a stones throw from our lovely Magical Roundabout Stadium.
31   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:34:03

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The Kirkby move is not good enough for this club or its long term future.
Kevin Latham
32   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:30:52

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Ian’s article hits the nail sqauarely on the head, we were the premier club in the city and the club want us to give it up. And yes, in 10 years or maybe less we won’t be associated with Liverpool because we won’t be in it, and young kids growing up in the city will identify with the dark side rather than us. If there’s one reason to vote no then I believe that’s it. The club have put all their eggs in one basket with this deal and it makes no sense whatsoever to do that without at least exploring the Bestway option, in fact you would think that they have a duty to do it. We know about the financial attraction of Kirkby with Tesco money because the club and the Echo make sure we’re told almost daily - but they don’t tell us jack about any other possibilities. Isn’t it supposed to be a booming era for the city after all, and the club want us to move out? What’s that about? Please, think long term about this Kirkby deal and remember that if we leave the city we will never come back and as time moves on we’ll be associated less and less with Liverpool, with the rsultant effect on our young fanbase. If there really were no other options then I think many of us would be resigned to moving to Kirkby, but it seems that the club have no real inclination to keep us here.
Simon Reason
33   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:55:59

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Well argued article tugging on the heart strings on this emotional issue.

BUT there is nothing other than wishful thinking as an alternative to Kirkby. As Ian rightly says it is down to Moyes and the players (no the board) that we have European football to look forward to. But staying at Goodison is only going to make the job harder. It hurts me deeply to say this but Goodison has had its day, its just not a 21st century stadium. Lets give the old girl a good send off, rather than try to keep her alive and go down with her
34   Posted 06/08/2007 at 11:05:25

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AG....If you and you’re band of Blue brothers have your way it will be the ruin of this club.

We are Everton, Goodison is our home, all this is utter nonsense.

Goodison is a DUMP, yes a DUMP no if’s no buts. Food is s_it, seats and views are s_it.

The Kirby proposal is not a shed, if it was placed on the LOOP DE LOOP, I don’t think you or Mr Bradley would refer to it as a shed. Do you think that the proposal to do up Goodison looked like a shed? be honest it looked awful.

Unfortunately for you and the other numpties, we will move to Kirkby and the likes of you WILL eventually go back to the match,

If you don’t you are extremely small minded.
ken merchant
35   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:18:03

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the alternative proposal for the redevelopment of Goodison was presented with a great deal of thought and a professionalism that belied thw fact that this was put together by Evertonians in their own time and without major funding.

No your child could not have done better, you are being silly. These plans were reviewed by a vastly experienced leading architect responsible for the re-development of St. James Park in Newcastle, and duly commended.

Just because the accompanying graphics lacked happy little Evertonians, a People Club Logo and blue seats you seem to dismioss them out of hand. The plans were produced on industry- standard software and I, for one, was most impressed not least by the PROOF that there is an aleternative.

Like many vertonians, I believe that moving to Kirkby will start a serious decline in our fortunes and is at best a short term fix to cover this boards general incompetence at raising suitable finance to ruin our great club.

This seemed to be the general consensus among the travelling supporters I spoke to on Saturday at Selhurst Park.

36   Posted 06/08/2007 at 11:00:35

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you ar a complete wazzack mate do one
Andy Baker
37   Posted 06/08/2007 at 11:27:55

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Just been thinking about our ’identity’ in liverpool and thought of something. How many times have you been on holiday and someone asks were your which you reply liverpool only for them to say ’oh a liverpool fan then eh? NO! Fuckoff im an evertonian....

the point im tryin to make is dont get too upset about our identity....people outside the city dont know who the fuck we are anyway!

maybe a move will give us one?

i said maybe please be gentle!
Brian Finnigan
38   Posted 06/08/2007 at 11:04:23

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The picture painted by Gerard Madden is as frightening as Dante’s Inferno. If 99% of voting Evertonians will be sitting with nothing better than the Party’s coloured, but insubstantial brochure and the Echo before casting their vote then the day is lost.

Alternative views need to be disseminated to the masses at the Wigan game. It is not enough to publish such views on the web or in the Echo....they need to be printed and in the hands of the voters. Whether such pamphlets are created by Bestways/L.C.C. or others wishing to make the vote more meaningful by providing alternative views, does not matter. What matters is that a challenge is made to the argument that nothing other than Kirkby is possible.

The future of the Club could be wrecked just because those amongst us who are doubtful of the merit of the present proposals did nothing meaningful to present our case in writing to the electorate. It is not democatic to vote in an election that provides only one alternative to Goodison falling down. I repeat my offer to help pay for some alternative build/caution leaflets and to help distribute same on Saturday. That is the least I can do as I have the greatest reservations about the Kirkby solution.
39   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:01:26

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Well written Ian. Phil you are a fuckwit
Brian Waring
40   Posted 06/08/2007 at 11:12:41

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Great piece Ian.I just wanted to pick up on something you said,"The vote is a double indemnity".I never thought of it that way.Maybe I am being to cynical.But,Kenwright covers his back good style.If the vote is no,Kenwright comes out and blames all the anti-fans.Saying it’s our fault we have had to stay at goodison.And if the vote is yes,and we move, but it is a big fuck up.Kenwright then comes and covers his back again,Stating that all you fans voted for it.As I said, "maybe I am being cynical".I,m voting no by the way,not because of emotional attachment to goodison.But I think financially it would be a big mistake.The only way I would ’reluctanly’consider the move,is if I knew BK and KW had exhausted all avenues and there was simply no other way.One of my problems I have is that BK and KW make it sound like there is a big pot of gold waiting for us in Kirkby.Without being albe to back it up.Even in the brochure,it is all ifs and buts.
Andy M
41   Posted 06/08/2007 at 11:13:42

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Phil ? I’m sorry but I just can not believe your argument, vitriol and sentiment on this issue. I’m not saying you are any less a blue than any "No Kirkby" fan but the fact is the PR and information emanating from Goodison on "The Kirkby Project" has been appalling and should in no way convince a blue to vote yes.

I don?t mean to sound condescending but I probably will so please don?t take offence. I?m an exiled blue, hail from Old Swan and was a season ticket holder before I moved away from the city due to my career. I attend at least 5 matches a year and consequently don?t have a vote. I do however spend more money travelling to Goodison a year than the cost of 3-4 season tickets and always look to see if the blues are at home before making travel arrangements.

I?ve never been anti or pro BK but I was more than pleased with the appointment of KW as I felt a strong financial head was needed off the pitch following the appalling way the club was governed during the 90s.

For a profession I?m a financial regulator and have worked on a few mergers and acquisitions during time so believe I have a good understanding of corporate governance, financial management and impact on customers (weren?t we called fans once). I am also aware of what a cell fund is, and that there was never going to be any ?fortress? type saviour but that?s another story.

I admit I would prefer to stay at Goodison but also accept the dear old lady needs a major revamp if we are to stay. I was/am also willing to look with an open mind at any proposition to move us from Goodison. We are all well aware of the KD fiasco but I?d rather look forward. The Kirkby plan has not swayed me on paper for several reasons but in addition to using my heart I have used my head, as have a lot of posters here.

The move out of the city ?will? erode our ?natural? fan base, and will whether you like it or not result in LFC adding 20k seats in 10/20 years. Moving away from Liverpool will also reduce, not increase the commercial interest in the club? any commercial partner would have a choice; Liverpool on the up or Knowsley borough (and I have lived there and am not knocking it), it?s a no brainer.

As for the PR management of the project, well as I said above, I?m a FS regulator, bank?s to be precise, and if any of the firms I was regulating managed its PR/strategy with the potential impact on its business I would have them in for a chat, no plan B, that is unacceptable and no way to do business given the magnitude of the impact.

As for funding, if money is available for Kirkby, it?s available for any other development of that nature. The loop seems to fit this, subject to further investigation, and that?s all I would expect of the board. As for the logistics of the loop, size and dimensions. It?s on record that the whole infrastructure including the tunnel ramp on/off is under review including the development of the Scotland Rd area? reason enough for voting NO.

I expect ?nothing but the best? and would encourage any waving Blue to vote no for the future of the club.


Ps. As for players encouraging the move, they?re paid to represent the club and its wishes, not to have an opinion. And while I love seeing MA in a blue shirt, he will be a memory in ten years, hopefully not one created at Kirkby.
42   Posted 06/08/2007 at 11:28:51

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Gerard, for ’bleeding hearts’ and ’fanatics’, read people who really care about the future of the club. Please don’t dismiss the ’no’ voter so flippantly. Do you honestly believe that the board members (or ’The Echo’)are considering the clubs future more than they are their pockets? Kirkby = EFC laughing stock - vote no
43   Posted 06/08/2007 at 12:38:52

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Fingers crossed that Ian’s article has put those swaying voters notion of voting for a yes vote to bed. Great article,and what it means to be an Evertonian. KEIOC.No vote for me.....
44   Posted 06/08/2007 at 12:00:37

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This was a decent article written by Ian, however to me it was 90 percent written with the heart and not the head. Also I found it slightly hypocritical to have a go at the club to use its players to endorse the move, is this not what the KEIOC members have been doing themselves only using different methods.

I feel this is all gone too far now from all sides, why don?t people just realize they have a vote, it?s their vote and nobody else?s. Use your vote whichever way you want and don?t be swayed by either side. As for plan B, C, etc I would have assumed these were meant to be brought to the table by LCC and not the club and not at the 11th hour as a diversion tactic.

Vote yes or vote no, but make sure it?s your vote and for your reasons.
toffee rapper
45   Posted 06/08/2007 at 13:02:18

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this fella has stuck the same post on bluekipper, WSAG and now here. Sorry but if you really care about everton that much you would do whats best for the club, not just slag off the board. I can’t believe the ’10 mill will only buy" etc remark, its a recurring theme, its 10 mill more than we have now and is probably a very conservative figure. the kirkby stadium has every chance of generating more money for the club, unlike the loop or redeveloping GP which have no costings attached. A yes vote from me, I care about everton and want them to grow.
adam Doyle
46   Posted 06/08/2007 at 13:08:57

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i’m very torn by this matter.

i don’t want to move out of liverpool because we’ll basically become ’’Kirkby’s First & Best Football Club’’ and loads of young liverpudlians (geographically, not sportwise) will opt to follow the kopites not us.

however, i do like the idea of kirkby because it’s cheap. oh, and the images look good (but that’s not important). for a club that is consistently as rich as that homeless fella who plays the cardboard guitar, things that are cheap are beneficial for us.

i don’t have a vote in the poll, but i will accept whichever result
Chris Riley
47   Posted 06/08/2007 at 13:10:04

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Decent article I do agree with your points, however i will say one thing, you slag off others for buying into Blue Bills PR machine, and then reference Rocky? A bit lame i thought.

I am a blue from burnley, 4 of us have season tickets, i have worked in liverpool for the last 2 years. Kirkby would be 20-30 minutes closer for me, when you take into account switch island.

As an ’outsider’ like i no doubt will be labled, despite the ’City of Culture’ status, and its growing economy Liverpool still has vast areas of waste ground waiting to be developed. People who say there is no Plan B must walk around with their eyes closed, because the way i see it there are plenty of plan B’s just waiting to be uncovered.

It is just we as the fans dont have the money to explore these options.

This is why we must vote NO, and force plan B to be uncovered.
toffee rapper
48   Posted 06/08/2007 at 13:28:52

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I think people should know that this post originated from the KEIOC forum, a site admin wrote it and the KEIOC have posted it on every other forum they can find!

Just in case anyone thought it was from an unbiased source (Ian McDonald, Independant’re havin’ a laugh!)
"I take my hat off to KEIOC" indeed. Pat yourself on the back why don’t you. Pathetic.

Tom Davies
49   Posted 06/08/2007 at 13:27:33

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I completely agree with this article all the way, I will not carry on with my season ticket if we move to kirkby. And I am sick of plastic scousers telling us to move when Kopites are actually asking us to stay.
toffee rapper
50   Posted 06/08/2007 at 14:02:44

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only reason RS want us to stay is they want to be in a brand new stadium and us stook in goodison, the poor relation.

If you believe a Red cares about everton you are fkn deluding yourself.

Wake up.
John Charles
51   Posted 06/08/2007 at 14:06:35

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KEIOC showed us plan b?

did they bollocks. They showed us that if you threw enough money at it we could rebuild Goodison. Marvelous. I’ve no doubt spending 200-250 would give us a great plan B stadium on goodison. or on the loop.

Newsflash: we dont have the money. Why do people no realise this?

Vote for progress.

robert carney
52   Posted 06/08/2007 at 14:13:23

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dgf; regarding dealing with a Pakistan banking corporation.

I hope you are not raising what we are often accused of, as being rascist. Lets stick to the debate about Kirkby and the inefficient running of Everton Football Club.
53   Posted 06/08/2007 at 14:33:30

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Even if there ends up being a No vote I can guarantee one thing Everton will never move to the loop.
It will be the eqivalent of financial and business suicide.
The only reason why Bestway are even suggesing it is that it is a useless bit of land which they can?t do anthing with!!
Plus in addition i would rather Everton did not deal with a Pakistan Banking Corporation.

I agree, Bestway are also makers of cement which they supply to Afghanistan, sorry if i missed something but dont they have the highest disregard for Westerners. Back to the debate, vote Yes for Kirkby, vote yes for less debt and vote yes for a uk company. And vote YES for Everton, we all want to see them continue to play in the Premier League.
Nigel Tilley
54   Posted 06/08/2007 at 14:24:30

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Please don’t over react to articles like this one by KEIOC. It is designed to upset people and turn you against Kirby. Also, Kenwright and Co’s manipulation of the players to get you to vote yes is equally manipulative.

THINK! (That means your head not your heart) Read everything you can and if you have a vote try and make as an informed decision as you can. Whichever way we go, Everton will survive.

Which way am I going to vote? I don’t know. I will read EVERYTHING I can right up until the ballot comes through the door. One thing I do know though. Articles like this one or MA and AJ saying we should move will not have an effect on the way I do vote.
Brian Waring
55   Posted 06/08/2007 at 15:36:52

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Graham,"vote yes for a uk company"You seem to be quite proud making that statement.Is this the same UK company that bullies our farmers into selling them their produce for next to nothing?The same company that stock piles undeveloped sites to stifle the competition?The same UK company that "allegedly"gets their clothes made in a country where the workforce of women are paid a measly 5p an hour?They Have been one of the reasons why so many small grocery stores have gone out of business,because they under cut drastically on items,sometimes at a loss to themselves.We are going into a partnership with a company who don’t give a fuck who they steam roll to get what they want.And I don’t care about all this,Terry Tesco is an Evertonian,he would never screw us.At the end of the day Tesco is his first priority,not us.
Blue In Bolton
56   Posted 06/08/2007 at 16:05:20

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There is none so blind as those who will not see.

See you in Kirby fellas
David Deam
57   Posted 06/08/2007 at 16:40:50

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Sheer Emotional Propaganda

As it is right now I would have to say i’m pro kirkby but I do read and take in reasoned debate and sensible articles so it’s when I start reading lines like "barry is covered in everton tattoo’s, named his daughter after tony cottee, organises coaches all over the country also lives in kirkby but will stop going if we move grounds" I mean what the hell! I’d rather not have him as a fan then thanks.

I just find it interesting that all these negative fact’s about the
kirkby development, the supposed loop site that is our saviour, our plan
b if you will, have only materialised since we have finally said this is
our intention, Now it’s down to you as fans to decide. Unfortunately the
nay sayers already have the advantage because let’s face it, no-one
wants to move away from goodison but do you really still want to be
there in 15yrs time? For some reason the wheelie bin boundary really
seems to be a sticking point too, now i’m not from Liverpool, not even
close so this seems so bizarre to me because when I look at the map I
just see Liverpool. I don’t look and think hang on, that little line
there must mean that it’s not part of merseyside. It’s all the same to me.

I particularly like the line about all of the other clubs that have
decided to stay put and not move grounds, choosing to develop on their
orignal footprints instead, "Tottenham Hotspur, Aston Villa, Glasgow
Celtic, Glasgow Rangers, Chelsea, Newcastle United and Manchester United".

Let’s think about that list of clubs shall we, that list there is
arguably the who’s who of money in EnglishScottish football. The simple
fact that Newcastle have out bid us and improved our wage offers on
almost every single player we’ve been interested in for the last 3
seasons just goes to show that on a monetary basis we cannot be compared
with them, Aston Villa might not have had much money spent on their team
over the last decade but who couldn’t envy the situation that doug ellis
left them in, a debt free football club in the premiership an
achievement in itself.

To be honest as commendable as it is I wish that the club weren’t
consulting the fans on this or at the very least they hadn’t felt so
arrogant that they would triumph to say that the result will be binding,
I really do fear that this could end up a no vote...

and then what?

How much do we know about the loop site all i’ve managed to read so far
is that people have met with high ranking people with bestway and that
it is possible to fit a stadium there and that the council would help
etc. I’m not seeing any hard evidence and If this really was such an
obvious choice why was it never brought to the table before now at the
final hour?
The idea of us wanting to move is not new it hasn’t been conjured up in
the last 18months since kings dock was first mentioned, it’s been obvious
that we wanted eeded to move. Why weren’t bestway falling over
themselves for our development then, why didn’t LCC mention the loop
site then?
Robbie Muldoon
58   Posted 06/08/2007 at 17:49:05

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VOTE NO. It’s simple.

This issue has done something nothing else has done in 129 years... it has tore the fan base apart. Evertonian’s are beginning to detest fellow Evertonians because of their opposite opinion on this critical issue.

For me, an issue which can cause this much division in such an early stage of development must be put to bed with a resounding NO.

59   Posted 06/08/2007 at 18:23:44

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Ian, there are some big holes in your article,for instance where the commercial partners will come from to build the stadium and surrounding infrastructure using the site that Bestway are proposing. These commercial partners don’t exist, and certainly won’t be found in the ranks of the ’high powered’ representatives in Bestway. That fact you view them as such shows the commercial naivety of EVERYONE associated with KEOIC. Mind you, that is obvious by the emotionalist claptrap that runs through the whole article.

As someone who genuinely works in Finance for a FTSE top ten bank, unlike ’financial regulator Andy’, I would strongly recommend Blues use common sense, demonstrate financial awareness and consider our younger supporters by supporting the Corporate sponsorship that a top company like Tesco is willing to commit to us.
Neil Morris
60   Posted 06/08/2007 at 18:35:33

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100% with with what you say Ian. Everton FC does not belong in a field at the end of the M57. Kenwright / Wyness Out !
61   Posted 06/08/2007 at 19:20:42

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""PS ? This week I expect a last-minute seduction to the wavering fans with the likes of a director will put in £50 million for players if we say yes and add at least two players to our dangerously small squad. Please don?t be sucked in, think long term and think of who we really are.""
To me if this is true and I suspect it isnt your whole argument is virtually destroyed. We would now have 100 mill in new investment via Tesco/Knowsley Council and this mystery investor.
All I can see the Loop/redeveloping Goodison do is create huge amounts of new debt.
This really is a no brainer. The only mistake in all this is Wyness giving anybody a vote to start with.
Mike Squires
62   Posted 06/08/2007 at 18:33:41

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More emotive irrational stuff from Ian McDonald, what a surprise that he is having a go at the board! He talks about the third generation! what he fails to understand is that Evertonians will make the effort to support the club, kids will go to the ground whereever thet live in Merseyside. From the age of 11 I travelled by Bus, Ferry & Bus to get to the game there’s no reason why future generations won’t have the same committment. The bottom line in all this is "Show me the Money"! How are LCC goning to give us Land at a "Pepper Corn rent" are Best Way going to pay £ 75 Million for a New Stadium ? KEIOC have not produced anything to say this is going to happen, nice try but the only deliverable deal is Kirby.

63   Posted 06/08/2007 at 19:02:49

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If you leave your mouse over the picture of The Derby, it states, quite clearly, that its a KEIOC banner we can see. Now forgive me if I’m wrong but wasn’t that a redsh*te banner, trying to wind us up?
It didn’t wind me up by the way. I am quite happy with our history, the good and the bad, but that is what it is history, it’s gone
I am now looking forward, not back and not stagnating either for that matter.
Because I no longer live within the city boundaries, does that no longer make me a Scouser? Everton Football Club WAS born in Liverpool and had a fantastic life when there, so did I. I moved and guess what? I ended up with a better life! All the doom and gloom merchants need to take a look at themselves..............abandoning our children?....for the sake of our children??? Get a grip! It seems to me that some people have an agenda that is all about them, and the past, not about everyone else affected by this ballot and certainly not about the future. I turn up at Goodison every home game, I turn up at every away ground through the season too, I even turn up for the rezzies, which is miles from where I live. I’ll also turn up at Kirkby, Speke, Scottie Road or Long Lane, because that’s what Evertonians do, we follow Everton, we don’t follow Goodison Park (God bless her). My vote will be in favour of Kirkby because at the moment the other options are a non-starter. And, for those using the tag, NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM, the best IS Kirkby.
Ian, perhaps you could talk to your former friend and confidante Mr Kenwright, and get the fuller picture before you nail your colours to the mast. Please also bear in mind that in your other guise, you do not speak for all Evertonians, you only speak for all Evertonians with your viewpoint.
See you either in the Red Brick, or Kirkby, mines a Guiness, not Bitter.
Blue In Bolton
64   Posted 06/08/2007 at 19:11:53

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Oh it gets funnier by the minute with the logic of some of you fellows.
Just been listening to the debate on Radio Merseyside... One fella from Walton reckons that it’ll be a 90% per cent no vote.. his reason being? because 10 of his mates are all voting no. Thats conclusive then..
This same fella then goes on to say that Bill Kenwright was Evertons saviour during the Peter Johnson debacle, he saved the club.
He then goes on to state that Bill Kenwright is going to’ruin the club because of his incompetence, and is’nt listening to the supporters.
Whats all this ballot about then brain of Britain..?
I seriously do not beleive some of you people are capable of cold hard logic. Do us all a favour..stop listening to ale house talk, put your brains into gear and vote yes for the sake of fellow Evertonians and the club.
Hesitate now and we are lost.
65   Posted 06/08/2007 at 19:25:43

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""dgf; regarding dealing with a Pakistan banking corporation.

I hope you are not raising what we are often accused of, as being rascist. Lets stick to the debate about Kirkby and the inefficient running of Everton Football Club. ""

Mr. Carney you could have not been further from the truth. Personally I found your comments rather offensive and it certainly was not intended to at all considered to be racist.

I was just expressing possible concerns about the areas the the Bestway Group invest in. I have no concerns on foreign investment indeed I would encourage it. I would however like to know a little bit more about the background of the Bestway group before I would be parading them as potential saviours like some people are.
Dan Forde
66   Posted 06/08/2007 at 19:23:05

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There are currently four huge places of worship in the city of Liverpool; Goodison Park, the Catholic cathedral, the Anglican Cathedral and Anfield. Ask yourself, if one of the Cathedrals had to be relocated to be rebuilt would they build it in Kirkby? Half of the city is Blue,let’s keep it that way, VOTE NO. Furthermore, since we used the liverbird first [see Everton memorabilia collection]there are two liverbirds why not paint one blue?
Ray Finch
67   Posted 06/08/2007 at 18:53:59

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Something I noticed. A lot of the "Yes" voters, when mentioning Everton in these replies call us "they" and some of them, although signed with different names seem stylistically similar.
I am a total "No" voter by the way. In fact I strongly supported the Kings Dock project (anyone who remembers the banners the club put up on the perimeters of the pitch should know that I designed the picture and wrote the logo) so I don’t think I can be described as a Luddite. I want EFC to go forward but, in my view, Kirkby would be exactly the wrong option. Moving us from our homeland while LFC are moving onwards and upwards with their new ground would be a disaster. The nearest comparisons I can make to the Kirkby ground would be Coventry and Bolton. Speak to the supporters of these clubs and you will find out that they are very unhappy with the locations. Also the club named (in the interview with Michael Durkin) the clubs who raised attendances by moving. These were without exception clubs whose grounds were presently too small for potential crowd levels. EFC is running generally under capacity. The club have stated that there will be more potential support from the new location. Where are these supporters coming from? Football supporters in this area already have their clubs. They already support EFC, LFC, MUFC, MCFC, Bolton, Wigan or any of a number of other clubs. The Kirkby plan is a disaster waiting to happen. Please vote no!
68   Posted 06/08/2007 at 21:12:18

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EFC is currently running under capacity mainly due to the fact that all unfilled seats are restricted views. Why would anyone want to pay £25 and not be able to see the pitch? Maybe for the Derby or other big games but for others I suspect the answer is no.
Also when talking about catchment areas we currently offer around 3,500 away seats to my understanding. How many more do you reckon we will sell in new ground with good motorway access and secure parking. A great deal more I suspect. This is why the 4.5 million catchment area will increase attendances.
69   Posted 06/08/2007 at 20:56:19

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FAO David Deam, How long have you supported Everton??? have you EVER been to an away game?? Barry Murray is known as a TRUE blue, follows the club EVERYWHERE and if we lose fans like him moving to Kirkby then there is nothing down for the future of our club!! You make me laugh on these forums you don’t come from this city but you seem to think you all have a right to decide the future of OUR club!! I’d rather knock the Main Stand and The Bullens road down rebuild the Gladdy and lose knobhead fans like use forever!! Were any of you YES voters at the Wimbledon game or the Coventry game or wasn’t Everton in Europe then or fashionable??Oh ye we didn’t have Rooney then either did we!! If you do vote yes and move to Kirkby then don’t dare sing "An if you know your History!" two faced bastards you probably would aswell!!! Funny the way the club took that banner off the Park End before they announced the Kirkby move eh!!The true fans will vote NO to Kirkby!! The true fans realise that we cannot trust the board at Everton the true fans know that Bill Kenwright, Fat Arse Wyness & the rest of the board are asking you to vote YES for their personal gain only!!!

Goodison on Saturday will tell the board waht the REAL fans of Everton FC think about the move to Kirkby!!

"Ye can stick ye Fuckin Kirkby up ye Arse.............."
70   Posted 06/08/2007 at 20:53:12

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Just thinking the same Ray

How come Phil and Toffee rapper need 8 bites of the cherry in this particular debate ? and why are they so abusive to the no voters ?
Do these guys not realise that large numbers of Evertonians - who love the club as much as they ever could - will not go to Kirkby at any cost

Surely they see the terror these people feel about the prospect of moving to kirkby.
We’re talking about members of the extended family here and instead of being abusive Phil + TR should be supporting them, I dont believe a single Evetonian would stop going to GP if it was decided we would hold out for something better, forget this "new stadium means bigger following" myth, If the board go against the wishes of a large percentage - maybe even majority - of the clubs following, our end will have already begun

A yes vote would ensure divisions and bitterness even departures from within, only with a resounding NO can we ever again experience the unity thats makes us different from the plastics attatched to other clubs
robert carney
71   Posted 06/08/2007 at 22:09:15

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DGF, thanks for your response, I accept it totally.

I wish I had the background to some of our present backers.

Regarding the 4.5 million catchment area , do you really feel we are going to convert people from the midlands to the lakes. I personally do not believe football fans are that fickle.

Parking facility’s, Wyness has been forceed to admit that only 1,000 are available on matchday. the rest are for shoppers. As for Wyness giving us the vote, elsewhere on this site it is reported that Kenwright forced it on the proposals.

That shows his level of dithering on the whole issue.

No Hard Feelings,I am sticking with the VOTE NO.
72   Posted 06/08/2007 at 22:42:10

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No hard feelings Robert.

I will keep with the yes vote though.
Blue In Bolton
73   Posted 06/08/2007 at 22:20:39

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R.e Mac

Guess what..? I was at the Wimbledon game sweating with the rest of you..i was also at the Coventry game, sweating with the rest of you.
I celebrated in The Winslow after both games.
I was at Elland Road for the Spurs semi.. I was at Wembley for The cup win over United.. I even camped out side Goodison for a ticket for the final, even though a season ticket holder at the time.
Though according to you, as i am in favour of progress and a move to kirby for the benefit of THE CLUB.. and because I was born in Wallasey, and now reside in Bolton..i am a plastic scouser and a glory hunting bastard..?
Well in the parlance of many keioc posters on here..fuck you, you knobhead.!
mick m
74   Posted 06/08/2007 at 22:08:54

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David Deam

Firstly, remember Brian Labone’s statement about ’one Evertonian is worth 20 Liverpudlians’, well let me tell you Barry Murray is worth a 1000 of them.

Why? Because its people like him that make Everton what they are. People that will go to no lengths to support their team. People who for every second of the day, spend thinking about the blues.

I too will be voting No and if the decision is made to move to Kirkby, I will cut my season card up and vow never to spend another penny on this team I love. Not because I refuse to travel to Kirkby. I’ve travelled everywhere with Everton, the reason is because the board cannot see past their own noses and fill gullable idiots like you that this move is for the best. How is it for the best when EFC will LOSE over half their fanbase? And this isn’t in years to come, this is right now. There are so many Evertonians who will refuse to renew their tickets if the move go’s ahead.

The move to Kirkby is wrong for every reason. You comment on about how little info you’ve seen about the Loop site. Well I ask you, what is it you’ve seen that make’s your mind up that your in favour of moving to Kirkby. Two fucking sketchings in 18 months of talks and very vague and unclear comments surrounding the costing of the stadium and naming rights?? Has this really made your mind up.

People seem to forget that the city boundary thing is only one of many reasons why we should not move.

Truth is, no one has seen anything to make anyone’s mind up. Why, because the board of directors at our great club are a shambles. Why not cast a vote prior to signing an exclusivity agreement for 18 months, banishing them from talks with other potential sites and partners??

To make your mind up, you have seen two mediocre photos of a new stadium. You have heard Wyness talk about it costing £150 million, with this new state of the art stadium leaving Everton £10 million better off each year!! Was this the wow factor that has made your decision??

OR maybe is it because you dont come from Liverpool and dont go the match and really are not too bothered as to where we play football because you will watching from the comfort of your arm chair??

Do me a favour mate, we all want whats best for our club. No one with half a brain cell can even begin to think they have seen enough to make their mind up on moving to Kirkby.

I said this before, and i’ll keep saying it until he leaves.

Bill Kenwright told us we had signed Stephen Hughes from Arsenal for £3 million. He returned from loan at the end of the season. He also told us he’d never sell Rooney, we all know what happened and granted, his hands were tied on that one. He told us he bid for Alan Smith but didnt provide the funds for anyone else when the bid was unsuccessful. He told us about the NTL money. He told us about the Fortress Fund. He fucking told us Moyes would be backed this summer. He now tells us with Wyness and co that this is the only viable option, and it beggers belief that Evertonians are willing to believe him again.

How on earth can a club go in favour of a ground move if 50.1% of the vote is in favour. Because they are inept idiots like you.


75   Posted 06/08/2007 at 22:40:28

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Ian just read your article. Boy it makes you realise what a massive few weeks lie ahead for the future of our club. It does make you sick reading some of the shite posted by nobheads regarding this Kirkby fiasco. I am on holiday doing this e-mail, cant enjoy myself worrying about who the hell are we going to buy and hoping we get a no vote so we can explore the bestway site as rumour has it, they want to buy into the club aswell proiding us with a ground. Finaly a stadia acsess report done by consultants for Merseytravel shows that the stadium not ground, will have major difficulties in accessing by car and public transport.
76   Posted 06/08/2007 at 22:40:41

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Applauds the best written article I have ever read on the move.

I tick the No box

robert carney
77   Posted 06/08/2007 at 22:37:46

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Blue in Bolton;

You are probably the best reason in this debate for Evertonians to Vote No.

You live in a soulless place on the edge of the moors which has a ground that is possibly the blueprint for the Kirkby stadium.

Anyone who has visited the place knows that the whole devolopment is against the ethics of a local economy
with only the main sponsor gaining(aka Tesco in our court).

If I had one wish it would be to finance a convoy. of buses, coaches and planes for blues the world over so they can see what Wyness and Kenwright are truly offering us. Only then I would accept the vote has binding.
Steve Pugh
78   Posted 06/08/2007 at 22:55:11

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Can anybody answer me this. I have read many times and in many places that Bestway are looking to build a stadium at the loop. Does that mean they are going to pay for it? I know that some of the YES brigade will all turn round and say no without any facts, and some of the NO boys will say yes again without any facts. Want I want is a real answer with facts to back it up. Because if Bestway are planning to build, and more importantly, pay for a new blue stadium then it is a definite alternative and will more than likely be deliverable and will have to be looked at closely and fairly in direct comparison to Kirkby. Only then can we vote properly, in an informed manner.

By the way, anyone who says that supporters living outside the city are less important to the club than those in the city is a jumped up, arrogant little s**t. How many of you would travel 2 or 3 hours to watch every home game and whatever it takes to watch every away game. All fans are equal. All fans love the club the same and all fans should be treated with respect.

Everton is the peoples club - and we are ALL the People
Roy Harvey
79   Posted 06/08/2007 at 22:16:25

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I wonder if the board had come out and said the only option is to move to the loop, There is no plan B. Would there still be an urge to vote no? I reckon there would be. Moving from Goodison is obviously a highly emotional issue but the fact of the matter is that the game itself has changed. Started by others granted, but its a fact that if everton want to move forward, to continue competing at the highest level, to be a famous and succesfull club a move is the only option. Unfortuanatley we are not in the postion of other clubs, to rebuild where we are. There just isnt the money.And that is the sad but true fact of the game today. You need money to invest, to attract not only corporate interests but the best players. I believe that BK wants Everton to be the best or at least to remain in the race as football evolves in the future. If BK wants to acheive this by making Everton a more feasible and attractive option for would be buyers by moving to a 21st Century stadium with state of the art facilites and then selling it to those wanting to invest heavily into the team to makes those dreams reality, so be it. But no-one with any business sense let alone millions to spare will or would do it with the club in its current postion. That’s why it hasn’t happened already while lower and less well known teams have seen the backing they require. Stay, and there will be no backing or potential investement.We will forever be a mid table team or worse, a championship one. Move, and let’s end a chapter of this great clubs history and help to write another and i firmly believe, a winning one. Sure it tugs like a bastard on the heart strings but it will tug a whole lot more if this club never returns to the postion it should hold.Finally, on the subject of the kids following the RS instead. Never! Does anyone really think that after twelve or so years of going along to watch Everton with the folks/dad (Whatever)that those kids will, once they can go to a game on their own, suddenly turn round and say.."Do you know what? i can’t be arsed. That other lot are closer." Will they bollocks.
Joel Grates
80   Posted 06/08/2007 at 23:31:47

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As a 22 year old who grew up in Liverpool, supported EFC all my life with a passion, following in the footsteps of my dad and grandad (both previous season ticket holders), I moved to Bournemouth when I was 11. Since then I have missed Liverpool dearly, EFC playing a huge role in this. I plan on returning "home" as soon as circumstances allow me. I try to get to as many games as I can, home and away, as I have friends and relatives with season tickets who can get me the tickets when I can afford (student!!!). If I had a vote, it would be a big fat NO. I even wrote my dissertation on the potential ground move, and have a good understanding of all the implications of relocating to Kirkby. It would be a disaster, and completely wrong for the club. The club belongs (not financially) to the "people" of LIverpool. Location is imperitive. I’m sure I love the club as much as, if not more than many who have a vote, please vote no to Kirkby, EFC BELONGS in Liverpool. Fact. End of.
robert carney
81   Posted 06/08/2007 at 23:34:09

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Roy, you are being sold the only answer is money. Not true, when Shankly started the revolution that transformed our neighbours he did it gradually. From a player base upto were it was handed over to people within the club to go further. I hate admitting this, but the man praised Everton on many occasions based on fact not fiction.

Another scot Ferguson has built the foundation for years to come starting on the field with success then others investing in the facility’s.

I am hoping and dreaming that another scot will become great and do the same for Everton.We have admittedly missed too many opportunitys.
There have ben many comments about the millions spent by Newcastle, West Ham. ,Man City, Wigan and others. Do you really think that they have embarked on that journey. What you are seeing is a desparate atempt to stay in the top flight. I am personally waiting for the second coming. VOTE NO to give us that opportunity.
Roy Harvey
82   Posted 06/08/2007 at 23:52:39

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So where would you suggest the club moves to oel? Surely you can see that they need to but finances are tight?
Roy Harvey
83   Posted 06/08/2007 at 23:59:02

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Robert, i believe DM is that man, i really do and i am not entirely in favour of Kirkby but i do know that the club needs to move from Goodison. I can’t see it surving on the lower attendance whilst its rebuilt. But where? The loop? unsure of that one as well.

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