I don't think there are to many people out there who would disagree that this whole sordid affair now reeks to high heaven. It's an absolute disgrace the way the Everton Board of Directors, Tesco and the Liverpool Echo have led a large number of our loyal fanbase down the garden path. Well the truth is starting to come out but I wonder if it's now to late for this decision to be reversed.
I don't know how Keith Wyness and his boss Kenwright can look in the mirror without laughing after the strokes they have pulled. It's the kind of deal that has been drawn up on the back of a beer mat and can be slung down the Khazi once the bulldozers move in. Is there anyone out there who really believes Wyness gives a fuck where Everton play or what happens to them after he does a runner?
The whole thing stinks and so do the men behind it. Who the fuck taught Kenwright and Wyness to add up? Where did they get those original figures from? "Chance of a lifetime" and "a world-class stadium" quotes are one thing but actually lying to the fans about the cost and lining your own pockets at the same time is another. Wyness is on a right earner from this move and to think a majority of our lot voted for it makes me cringe.
It's heartbreaking to think that in a few years time the once mighty Everton will be playing football on a retail park in Knowsley at the Blockbuster Bowl while there mortal enemies Liverpool will be prancing around Stanley Park in a brand new ground in the finest city in Europe. Once we go to Kirkby, the city is lost and we will no longer be a part of it. That's the reality of what's happening.
I know I won't be able to stomach going to the Ethel Austin Arena to watch the Blues as it will be too painful. Knowing now what we do about the whole carry-on, going to the Carpet Right Arena would show a complete lack of moral fibre. It's like going for a bevy with a guy who just nicked your wallet and I want no part of this con job.
I am not one of those who thinks it will be easy to rebuild Goodison Park or a plot of land in the middle of town will fall from the sky but surely there has to be something better than this fucking farce. I thought it was the job of the board to do what's best for the club and its fans and not what's best for them. Because thats what Billy and Keith are doing.... How fucking naieve I am?
How can a club that finished 5th in the so-called best league in the world, where money is no object, have no Plan B, C or D? It's an outrage and these two muppets are getting away with it.
Please, someone from the goverment stop them before they kill the club... our club! Then again there are those who think it's a great idea and can't wait to dessert the city ..... Wake up and smell the Cherryfield Drive to the M57 taliback why dont yuz?? Because you will spend enough time in it once the job's done.
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1 Posted 13/06/2008 at 05:16:45
But once again I will say it; lets all thank the YES voters for contributing to this whole fucking nonsense; seriously, what proper fan of EFC would even think for a second how we will survive outside the City boundaries while the shite piss themselves laughing in their lovely new stadium.
2 Posted 13/06/2008 at 06:15:53
The whole ground move saga has dragged on for so long now, I fear that many ’no’ voters are actually letting apathy take the upper hand.
Unfortunately, this is exactly what the fat shit, Wyness wants. I can’t abide this fucking oaf and his slimy low-down ways. The fact he can behave in the manner he does and we, as supporters, sit there and let him systematically destroy everything that the club stands for, is a complete disgrace.
Wyness needs to go, forcibly. Kenwright needs to step aside and let someone with real business acumen take the reigns. What is Richard Branson up to these days?
3 Posted 13/06/2008 at 06:20:28
4 Posted 13/06/2008 at 06:16:58
Your comments are duly noted, and I, along with the many thouands of other people who voted "Yes", to attending your masterclasses in "How to be a proper fan of Everton".
I’m just wondering if you personally are going to deliver the course, or whether the numerous other "proper fans" are going to assist.
I would also be grateful if you could publish on TW your course material, perhaps some guidelines and pointers in how to be a "proper fan", so that I can get a head start in this important subject.
Do I need to read the 40 years’ worth of accumulated programmes my father and I have built up from going to the match - would that assist in becoming a "proper fan"?
Or maybe I need to watch some of my old video tapes and DVDs to relive some of the memories of what it was like to be a "proper fan" in the 80s onwards?
Would you suggest I read all of the Everton books I have bought again, so I can attend your masterclass with some idea of what a "proper fan" should think?
Or maybe I should just reflect on the many thousands of memories supporting Everton over the past 30 odd years have given me - now I see the error of my ways, I could analyse my behaviour over these years to see where I have gone wrong, and apply the guiding principles you, and the other "proper fans", are so kindly offering.
5 Posted 13/06/2008 at 06:19:02
Do you guys think that using words like "sordid", "injustice" and "disgrace" often enough will somehow make it so? Or that saying over and over "there must be a better alternative for our great club" will somehow magic one into existence?
The facts that you will simply not accept are that Kirkby is a likely destination for the club because we are poor, need additional revenues, and cannot afford anything better. It has nothing whatsoever to do with KW’s bonus (he’d get one whatever we did), or BK believing that it would be better to play in Kirkby than on Stanley Park (he’s not crazy). Given our highly constrained financial situation, Kirkby is a perfectly understandable response, and quite probably the best alternative of a very small number of not particularly brilliant options that we actually have.
Join the real world. It may not be very pleasant (I don’t like it that much myself). But it’s surely better than continuing to float angrily and aimlessly in space, believing things that aren’t true, and hoping for things that aren’t possible.
6 Posted 13/06/2008 at 05:56:17
your pissing against the wind lad, KW has previous, but the Jocks saw right through him
The tradgedy is, he isnt even a mediocre con man
I’d have bet my fucking house against Evertonions buying the "magic beans" this guy was selling
When was the last time you met anyone who would admit - in person - to voting yes ??? it would be like admitting you bought a "genuine" Rolex in the aleouse, on April 1st, from this fella in a stripe shirt, who was carrying a bag with the word "swag"wrote on it
I was certain this thing would be called in, but against all logic it still hangs over us like a very dark cloud
7 Posted 13/06/2008 at 06:55:18
This is what is now happening with KW. We are going to Kirkby solely because KW is a corrupt con man. He is purely interested in his bonus (which apparently he will only get if we go to Kirkby), and he has conned BK, and then he has conned all the Yes voters (he is a man of truly magical abilities).
Join the real world. It is not all about evil KW and the magical spells he has cast on us all. It is about the financial state of the club and the situation we are actually in. The truth is painful, but it really is true.
8 Posted 13/06/2008 at 07:11:20
9 Posted 13/06/2008 at 07:16:40
I........ agree......... with.......... Tony......... Marsh!
There, I said it! Not often in my life has this happened. I always read your input with interest Tony, and although your negativity towards all things Moyes never fails to leave a bitter taste in the mouth, I’m with you all the way on this issue fella.
I pray every night that the right decision is made for the good of Everton Football Club. I do fear however, that a move to the Tesco Dome will destroy the soul of this great club.
10 Posted 13/06/2008 at 07:45:52
Our great club will go right down the pan if this move goes ahead and when KW goes back under the rock he came from we will be the ones who are stuck with the sinking ship.
11 Posted 13/06/2008 at 07:59:13
12 Posted 13/06/2008 at 08:09:52
13 Posted 13/06/2008 at 08:20:49
I think we’d all agree we need to increase revenue. Anyone who’s looked through our annual accounts will see this. However I’m concerned at how much extra revenue this stadium will actually create compared to Goodison. Originally KW stated it would give Moyes an extra £10m a year trasnfer funds. To be honest, I wasn’t overly impressed with that figure and since then, a whole host of ’truthes’ about the costs have come out and I find it hard to trust this mans figures. Putting my doubt in his honesty (and simple maths) aside taking into account the rising costs of steel and concrete since the plans were made (40-50%), the decreased amount we’ll now get for Bellefield, the higher interest payments for loans and the councils bombshell that they’ll not only want the stadium 100 times a year for free but that they’ll also want a percentage of our profits made outside of football...how much of that £10m will Moyes really be getting? Will it be worth moving our club out of the city and lumping it with massive additional debt for £5m a year extra?
Secondly your point about Kirkby being the only stadium we can afford...how do you know that? We’ve been in an exclusivity agreement with Tesco and KMBC for the past 18 months and refused to sit round a table with anyone willing to offer alternatives. I would’ve loved to hear more about Sainsbury’s proposals for Walton Hall Park for instance, but we’ll never know unless we enter into talks with these people. Then there’s the redevelopment of Goodison which BK says simply isn’t possible...where’s the document to prove this? He sanctioned a study on this subject in 2000 which proved it could be done, so where’s his proof now that this has changed?
14 Posted 13/06/2008 at 08:33:25
Would love to know how just because we are in the Premier league "Money is no Object".
15 Posted 13/06/2008 at 08:50:37
The council through it out. By saying we could not have the park.
16 Posted 13/06/2008 at 08:37:37
I added my name to the petition yesterday.
I know we are poor but the day we move to Kirby is the day we cease to be Everton. We will be the new MK Dons.
17 Posted 13/06/2008 at 08:49:10
If Kirkby goes tits up then why should KW fall on his sword?
He is an employee of the club and has been asked by the board to push through the stadium move to Kirkby, Following your logic then should Ian Ross and the players that supported the move under the instructions of the board also resign?
18 Posted 13/06/2008 at 08:56:04
19 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:07:06
I’ll still support the club come what may because I AM a proper fan.
20 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:12:44
21 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:08:12
(The Council will also get free use of the stadium for a set number of occasions.If we can’t "fit them in" when they want it we will have to pay them compensation. ) Beginning to look a lot less attractive in this "real world" isn’t it. There WILL be people who will not relish the extra cost and inconvenience involved in attending a match in Kirkby on a miserable February night,no matter how long they’ve been a supporter. I’ve been going since 1959-60. I now live in North Wales so the journey will involve the Runcorn Bridge instead of the Tunnel so,parking aside,it’ll make little difference to me. But the thought of the move sickens me. It’s not just the "giving up the city" that bothers me.I just can’t see us being the force we have become in ten years time,with a dwindling support as us older fans stop going and with fewer young fans taking our place.
I’ve never been a fan of a shared stadium before but this city,and the two clubs in it,missed a fantastic opportunity to build a truly World Class Stadium at the Kings Dock.....
22 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:32:06
I do not usually agree with you but this time i support your article 100%
The article on the main page relating to a GP re build feasability study conducted in 2000 has pissed me off no end!
If our board had the vision to re develop goodison for a grand total of circa £40mn maybe...... just maybe..... we would now be in a position whereby we would need to be expanding to 60k arena!
If they had redeveloped GP in the 3-4 year time period our club would have benefited from a considerable increase in Turnover from Corporate sales etc...... in turn this would have put more money in the transfer kitty!!!!...... imagine where we would be now if DM had an extra £30mn to spend over the past 2 years??
The last ten years have been an unprecedented glory period in the British economy...... the premier league has benefited massively from this..... big corporates didnt care how much a box would cost as long as there names was there!!!!!
Now as we are approaching the 12th month of "le Crunch" the economy is in a terrible position...... and we are now looking to spend / (raise) £78mn for a stadium in Kirby which will beinferior to the 55k seater stadium that the year 2000 feasability report proposed!!
Until the lack of vision is addressed at the very top then in my opinion we will never be a top 4 club!
23 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:39:58
I don’t always agree with you but on this issue I do 100%. Every No voter should encourage every Blue to complete that petition and e-mail Blears and Co directly.
24 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:43:36
25 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:32:03
26 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:56:40
I didn’t realise that one of the qualifications of being a ’real fan’ was to stop going as soon as oyur club moves less than 10 miles up the road.
You see, last time I looked I was an Everton FC supporter - not a Goodison Park supporter or a Walton supporter. I go wherever my club goes.
the last lot that refused to move when the club did are now the people who most supporters seem to be so fearful of these days as one of the main arguements appears to be ’what will the Liverpool supporters say’.
Well guess what, I’m an Everton supporter so I don’t give a stuff what Liverpool supporters say.
just out of interest, if Liverpool get their new 70,000 stadium on Stanley Park and we remian in the crumbling shed that has become Goodison Park over the road, do you think that would be a better image to have, gazing across the park at their new superstadium and wandering what might have been as we sit in Goodison Park with our obsructed views and gradually deteriorating stands?
27 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:01:47
28 Posted 13/06/2008 at 09:54:00
I’d only say one thing. When the No camp talk about "our club", its not the exclusive preserve of the minority who lost the vote.
All season the only positive article you’ve written about Everton was when you were forced to concede that our 12 game run was great.
Not a positive word on any of the signings, even if you hate Moyes, not a word on finishing in the top ten for the second successive season.
Only your usual negative bile.
Its not something that I’d wish on any fan, but if your not going to Kirkby I can only rejoice that such a negative and bitter character is not around when we parade a cup within Kirkby.
Unfortunately, like that bad penny, I know you’ll be back next season. This time I promise not to bother to even read your articles.
29 Posted 13/06/2008 at 10:12:30
I’ll never forgive Kenwright & Co for replacing that vision with a flat-pack on the banks of the Alt
With Kirkby I feel as if I was promised a new bike for Christmas and got a Smith’s gift voucher instead
30 Posted 13/06/2008 at 08:29:40
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Neil Pearce I suggest you join the real world.Keith Wyness was brought to Everton on an annual salary of £400,000 to generate more income for the club and he has failed to deliver.He has outsourced all marketing, and runs his own business in the clubs time, you just could not make it up, and as you say Neil "the truth is painful,but it really is true"
31 Posted 13/06/2008 at 10:25:35
One of the happiest days of my life (and, I presume, Tony’s) was 15 May 1966
Still knackered from my first trip to Wembley the day before, I was in the crowd outside St George’s Hall in company with what seemed like the rest of the planet
I’ll take the joy of that day to the grave - hundreds of thousands of Blues - what a feeling of togetherness - a carnival for OUR club in OUR city
Will a tour of the borough to Kirkby Council Offices be the same?
32 Posted 13/06/2008 at 10:42:50
How have LCC threw (not "through") out the idea of us having Walton Hall Park when we haven’t even applied to build on it? It was mentioned to Warren Bradley and he said no, just like LCC said no when it was originally suggested a new ground be built on Stanley Park, but that hasn’t stopped the shite has it?
My point is until you follow the correct procedures and place pressure on the council by submitting a planning application you can’t dismiss a site.
33 Posted 13/06/2008 at 10:42:30
34 Posted 13/06/2008 at 10:37:55
Your post, more than any shows why the No and Yes camp won?t agree. It's not a debate about facts and figures, its about emotion.
Nothing can be exactly the same.
The only point I?d make it this: staying at Goodison, and doing nothing will do more to kill our club than anything else.
Sure we?ll be within the political boundaries of the City of Liverpool, yippeee!
But when the clowns across the park build their spaceship, we?ll still be in a not fit for purpose stadium, trying to generate increased income from a stadium where overheads will continue to rise.
Given that LCC won?t even let us sell our own property (Bellefield) - can anyone see any real prospect of us getting a new ground, and being able to use that as the basis to compete within the city of Liverpool?
35 Posted 13/06/2008 at 10:40:58
It really baffles me the way, you are all so right and that the yes voters and the board are completely wrong.
Phil, How do you know that we wont be standing on the Steps of St Georges hall again. Why cant the Procession start at Kirkby and Finish there.
Oh sorry, you know someone who works for LCC and they are not going to let the thousands of potenial money spending people come in to town
36 Posted 13/06/2008 at 10:53:51
Madden with a bit of luck this project will get lashed by the government and you can go on hunger strike in protest.
37 Posted 13/06/2008 at 10:35:50
It strikes me that these people think they are supporting EFC but they are not ? they are supporting BK and KW blindly, regardless of what facts and figures come out and then trying to justify them to everyone else.
One thing I used to boast about to other mates around the country is how knowledgeable scousers/EFC fans are about their footy... how fucking ridiculous would I look like introducing them to the likes of Madden, Wordsworth, etc who advocate taking MY beloved club out of MY city to a fucking retail park in the middle of nowhere that looks shite and cheap?
It sounds dramatic but my life will change forever the day EFC move to Kirkby, they have always been a constant crux for me, no matter what happens in my life: lose my job, bird leaves me, fall out with family etc.. EFC have always been there, and soon they may not because, as has been pointed out before, MY EFC will be gone and corporate cash cow will be in its place that has nothing to do with EFC whatsoever, and I am dreading this.
38 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:00:10
Twice we have asked to build on a park, twice we have been told no.
Why would you go back and be turned away for a third time?
39 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:01:11
I’m just presuming that the City of Liverpool won’t pay for the policing, clean-up etc of a reception for a football club from another town
I hope you’re right and one day we’ll see Everton parade a trophy back in the City
Yep...got me there, gulty. Football is about emotions, not just a business; if we all were just concerned about money and trophies we’d do a Rooney now. Those who understand...This club to me is the accumulation of its past as well as the hopes for its future - Will Cuff’s team, Joe Mercer’s et al
40 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:12:50
If the move is inevitable, there?s a lot of sorting out to do!
41 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:16:46
LCC bent over backwards to accommodate Everton at Kings Dock. Delaying the final decision by 7 months to see if KENWRIGHT could raise the £30m.
Gregg had the money, the balls and the business acumen to make it work but KENWRIGHT would not allow Gregg to take control.
Did we ever get so much as an explanation from KENWRIGHT why the project fell through? One day it was on the next it was all over and never mentioned again.
We are here because of KENWRIGHT.
He is responsible for the financial mess that the club are in. Kirkby if successful represents his opportunity to sell out at a nice profit, scuttle off back to luvvy-land and fuck the consequences thereafter.
The man is a fraud.
42 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:08:57
Remember we sing we?re the pride of Merseyside - not Liverpool and we will still be on the banks of the Royal blue Mersey. Remember it?s your city council through their lack of action who have forced us out not the board.
43 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:36:37
Oh and Lyndon/Michael do you really think it’s a wise idea to allow/encourage articles on here that label senior executives at our club liars and accuse them of lining their own pockets? Really? I’d suggest you check with your legal advisers if you think the answer to that question is "Yes".
44 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:34:32
45 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:32:32
In fact, it’s so confusing as to be almost...genius.
"The one hundred or ?supporters? who will decide not to go will be easily replaced by committed supporters of the club"
So let me get this straight.
There are supporters like Tony (and me!) who pack it in if Kirkby happens.
We are ’replaced’ by COMMITTED supporters of the club who presumably aren’t going at the moment (coz obviously, if they ARE going now, they can’t ’replace’ anyone).
If anyone can figure this out please let me know.
(obviously my first thought was to put it down to GM’s usual staggering dumb-as-fuckness, but I’m happy to be proved wrong)
46 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:49:27
"Wouldn?t it be easier for everyone if once and for all we agreed that the "No" voters are stout-hearted, sterling, upright citizens who love Everton FC more than the "Yes" voters who are in turn black-hearted low-lives whose greatest wish is a barely-suppressed desire to take a dump on Dixie?s statue".
Fine - that IS what I think, although I DON’T think you’d take a dump on Dixie’s statue......I mean how would you get up there? (I reckon you’d just go behind it)
47 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:51:15
48 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:51:13
Spot on mate
49 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:41:38
Comments are posted to the page as soon as they are submitted and are not usually vetted or moderated until a report of abuse or unsuitable content is received. The site owners take no responsibility for comments posted by readers of the site until such time as such a report of concern is received. Comments are the sole responsibility of the poster.
50 Posted 13/06/2008 at 12:05:45
We will NOT be on the banks of the Mersey (Kenwright spunked that one away) - The River Alt flows through Kirkby, northwards towards Maghull and Formby and enters the Irish Sea near Hightown
We’ll need to rewrite the song if we want to hang our big city neighbours
51 Posted 13/06/2008 at 12:22:18
If we dont want to go the only way is boycotting spending anything at the club and telling them why. If we dont buy replica shirts or catering etc. I know it hurts the club financially in the short term but we are talking about our next 100 years somewhere. I dont want my grandkids growin up with some shitty ground outside our boundaries
Time to stand up and be counted
For the record I never received my voting form last year - but had been wayed to vote yes, stupid ? Maybe, Naive ? Definitely - angry - bloody right
We are the frist club of the city of liverpool so why the fuck should we leave.
BK and KW should just see the RS pissing themselves to see that in no way should we ever leave this city
52 Posted 13/06/2008 at 12:34:01
crying shame this.
53 Posted 13/06/2008 at 12:39:43
What worries me most is that we have a fair few (major) problems off the pitch at the moment, namely: the aforementioned (IMO disastrous) Kirby move and our dire marketting. What if the football starts to match?
It may not be the top four that concerns us but the bottom 3!
54 Posted 13/06/2008 at 12:42:11
If we move, you will stop going to the matches, then you ll shut up. Wont that be sweet.
55 Posted 13/06/2008 at 12:40:51
What a fucking great laugh that would be.There would be queues a mile long to get in to the court house to listen and watch these two muppets squirm under oath. bring it on I say..Oh by the way you must be a right mug if you think these two clowns are not economical with the truth.
56 Posted 13/06/2008 at 12:42:00
And don’t try that guff about comments not being checked before they are posted.
for the past 2 weeks, every comment I have posted has come up with a message saying they are ’queued for moderation and will be removed if they are offensive or ’unworthy for inclusion’ they will be deleted.
Now I don’t post offensive comments or posts designed with the sole intention of winding people up, I disagree with people and argue the case, but no more than anybody else on here. So if they can do this to me, why do Tony Marsh et al get allowed to post whatever they want
57 Posted 13/06/2008 at 12:53:38
58 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:03:06
I’m only too familiar with the site’s disclaimer having had posts on a variety of subjects of my own removed on earlier occasions. Posts I may add I considered to be utterly innocous, but, hey-ho there you go.
Free speech is one thing but stating, for example, that Keith Wyness is lining his own pockets at the expense of the cherished traditions of our great club is in my opinion going too far.
Opinions and debate are fine; slander is another matter - as Rooney ,his ghost-writer and publishers would all tell you.
59 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:11:51
’The King’’s Dock money is ring-fenced’
I rest my case, m’lud
60 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:24:08
Clearly they can if they want to, they just choose to let him post whatever he wants without checking it first!
I assume the reason they started checking mine was because I complained at one of the moderators for his condecending reply when somebody asked the whereabout of Alan Whittle - said poster indicated that basically he wasn’t interested and didn’t care, which I took offence at.
The point is that the moderators can stop people posting if they want, but in Tony’s case they don’t
61 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:28:37
That’s ok cos everything you and Tony have said is 100% accurate & factually proven I presume!
62 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:21:46
63 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:30:45
Cant speak for Tony but nothing I’ve said above is anything but the truth, the whole truth....
64 Posted 13/06/2008 at 12:57:27
I think there have been some good points from both sides. But, can certain people from the yes and no camps stop making out the other lot are idiots or ’not proper fans’ and making out they are right, end of story. They’re the ones who are looking like ’idiots’ and vacuous ones at that.
65 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:38:56
Goodison gone - club shop moved -
ALL TRACES OF EVERTON REMOVED FROM CITY OF LIVERPOOL
Yes voters, you have had your ballot, which you keep quoting was fair and a mandate.
( I was entitled to 2 votes in my household and did not receive ballot papers).
Plus you have the EFC marketing machine on your side.So no problem then.
To EVERYONE who believes Kirkby is a very, very bad decision then please find email info.
Send to as many people as you can so that our voice is heard.
Below is the list of e-mails.
I have sent the template from KEIOC ( I simply opened up the template then copied and pasted into an email)
I could not find Andy Burnham?s email but his assistant is - CALVIN.MULLINGS@Culture.gsi.gov.uk
?GET UP, STAND UP ! STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHT ! DON?T GIVE UP THE FIGHT !?
66 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:03:46
67 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:12:41
68 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:17:43
EVERTON FC have never asked for Stanley Park nor asked about redeveloping GP.
LCC "BROUGHT" us kings Dock WE DID NOT ASK FOR IT.
Now BK may not be the lying cheating incompetent guy some people think he is but he sure as hell does not get off his arse to do anything unless his position is threatened such as when the "Fortress Sports Fund " was "invented" to ward off Paul Greggs takeover bid.
Can anyone name any initiative that this guy has taken.
He even admitted that Tesco Terry approached him and proposed Kirkby.
The board have lived under the longest running "Exclusivity" period in history to blank every other approach or suggestion so Why the fuck would LCC continue to bang their heads against a brick wall.
Alienating LCC which is one of BK’s greatest achievements is now coming home to roost and when Kirkby goes tits up we’ll be in a weakened negotiating position
69 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:48:04
Hit the nail on the head there mate.
70 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:05:11
You couldn't possibly have ever been to Kirkby if you think its on the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey.
Trust me pal, you would not want to get dragged by the bollocks from Kirkby to the Mersey
Jus out of interest, how often would you actually go to Kirkby if The board get their wish?
71 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:51:57
72 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:48:23
On one hand I have Tony & Phil accusing BK & KW of lying.
On the other hand I have somebody suggesting that you write to people using the KEIOC template.
My problem here is that only once in that letter does it mention Everton FC and that only as the possible cause of problems in NW Liverpool.
So here are a group of people tryin gto get you to send a letter to the government voicing your concerns about retail development in Kirkby and its impact on the rest of the surrounding region.
Now correct me if I?m wrong here, but most anti-Kirkby people on here couldn?t care less about the bigger picture and are actually concerned about the future of Everton Football Club.
So that means that effectively means that everybody who uses the KEIOC template will be lying about their reasons for protesting in order to make a point.
Now you see my problem. It is a matter of conjecture as to if BK & KW lied (some say yes, some say no). But in the case of anybody who sends this letter, then you are doing precisely what you have accused the Everton board of.
I hope you are all very proud of yourselves.
73 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:51:35
Yet another MYTH.
TESCO ARE NOT FUNDING KIRKBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
74 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:31:12
75 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:55:52
If we are being picky about song lyrics in relation to stadium locations. You could hardly describe Goodison as being on the ’banks of the Royal Blue Mersey’ either could you?
76 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:53:11
1. Will stadium/matchday revenue increase?
2. Will our supporter base grow in the future?
If this was just another business, I can’t help but feel the answers are PROBABLY NOT and NO. It seems likely that
1. The net effect of moving to a bland location in as retail park will not drive big net increases (corporates will not come, some traditionalists will not go).
2. The more significant issue is the long term impact it will have on the new generation of football fans in the city. In an age of instant gratification and connection to success, I fear surrendering the territory will lose a large number of future fans
There must be better alternatives even if that means further delays
77 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:56:05
People who tell lies are liars. What?s so difficult to understand about that?
I couldn?t give a monkey?s about Kirkby or its regeneration - I?m an Evertonian, I want what?s best for my club - I don?t have a ?2nd favourite? team and I wouldn?t watch England if they were playing in Sefton Park (one of our alleged 35 potential sites)
From what I recall of the KEIOC template, there was nothing about objecting because it was not right for EFC - so I won?t be using it.
78 Posted 13/06/2008 at 14:08:58
The talk from KEIOC was that the best way to protest was via some reasoned arguement about retail, which was my point.
The fact that you will argue the case on the basis of Everton FC says a lot for you.
My point was that people accuse BK & KW of lying but are then prepared to lie themselves to get what they want
79 Posted 13/06/2008 at 11:06:09
It is encouraging that less yes voters are appearing on this site as more and more revelations about the Kirkby deal are beginning to surface. Some still try to defend what is rapidly becoming the indefensible but with less conviction than they did in the early days after the vote. Sadly, those yes voters that remain seem unable/unwilling to admit that the fine detail of the deal, held back during the referendum, at the very least make some of their earlier hopes unlikely to be fulfilled.
Stadium quality appears to have been greatly reduced. Travel/parking issues have not been adequately addressed and this seriously threatens expected attendance figures. Lower than projected attendances, together with severe restrictions placed upon non-footballing use of the stadium, will inevitably reduce the promised revenue streams. Despite the obvious alterations to the original promised vision, few yes voters (if any) are willing (at least publicly) to acknowledge that the Club have been less than honest in their presentation of their case for a move to Kirkby.
I can understand how some supporters could have reluctantly been convinced by the promises made by the Club those many months ago. I was not one of them because what was being offered then, on a material level, seemed too good to be true. That, added to my belief that the Club should remain close to the City of Liverpool, convinced me to support the no vote. Many yes voters had to overcome their historical and emotional attachment to Goodison in order to cast their vote in the way that they did. They did so on the basis of a prospectus that can now be seen to have been at least flawed or worst downright dishonest.
It is now vital that those yes voters who are having serious second thoughts about project Kirkby add their voices of protest to those in the no camp. Together, we should make it our duty to petition against the move before it is beyond our powers of recovery. An overwhelming call to the Government to call in these proposals appears to be our only hope of saving the Club from making a dreadful mistake.
80 Posted 13/06/2008 at 14:06:30
The bus Journey would be OK except there are NO busses to catch.
Merseytravel have already stated that they cannot provide the busses required for matchdays.
But it doesnt matter because Tony and a large number of other blues will not be going so the crowd of 32200 (according to KMBC restrictions)will be able to enjoy their FAR MORE EXPENSIVE matchday.
81 Posted 13/06/2008 at 13:41:07
"Could anyone seriously see only 18 000 turning up for the first game?"
Not at all?
In fact, for the first game I reckon it’ll be banged out - a sell out.
Loads of freebie tickets, flags, adverts, deals, not an empty seat in the place -50,000.
Two seasons down the line though?
Well, I still can’t see it being as low as 18,000.
But I can (genuinely) see things settling around 28,000 - 34,000
28,000 - 34,000....in a 50000 seater Reebok style stadiu... in Kirkby.
I think it IS a distinct possibility (and I believe anyone who denies it’s a possibility is - sorry - full of shite).
You HONESTLY believe it’s worth the gamble?
By the way, you also say..
"Personally, I prefer not to be bitter all of my life"
Well that’s an admirable sentiment, but to be honest, I don’t think you would find ANYONE who would say "I’d LOVE to be bitter all my life!".
However it’s worth considering the war veteran, who ducks on hearing a car backfire - he doesn’t WANT to duck, but his past experience shapes his present (and future) behaviour.
Remember NOBODY is born bitter and my guess is nobody chooses to be bitter.
But, like greatness, I reckon it’s something some have thrust upon them...in this case by a very, very badly run football club.
82 Posted 13/06/2008 at 14:31:07
.... whats the myth???
Everton are skint - Fact
Goodison is crap -Fact
We need a new stadium -Fact
Tesco are contribution £50m in some way - Fact
83 Posted 13/06/2008 at 14:25:00
’I remain supremely confident it wont get called-in because the "ace cards" held by the applicants are that Kirkby is in dire need of regeneration with all its poverty and worklessness and the fact you find those Kirkby wards usually at or near the bottom of the economic league tables locally, regionally and nationally.’
Gerrard you may well be correct, the project may not get ’called in’ ...
BUT PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THE HELL EVERTON ARE GOING TO INCREASE THEIR REVENUE BY MOVING TO SUCH AN ECONOMICALLY DEPRIVED AREA ... ARE YOU COUNTING ON ADDITIONAL LOCAL SUPPORT IN AN AREA WITH NO MONEY ???? WAKE UP FFS !!!!
Your arguments are increasingly irrational and illogical .. the axioms you have formed are incomprehensible ... you can’t be taken seriously mate !
84 Posted 13/06/2008 at 14:15:36
85 Posted 13/06/2008 at 15:00:00
and how many people does a bus hold?
86 Posted 13/06/2008 at 15:12:48
No irony, no jokes. thats how I feel. So What!!! I?ve just read a post about future cup parades going through Liverpool then ending up at Kirkby???? You mad gets!!!
Liverpool fans are pissing themselves at this, that has got to be an indicator (no more) of how bad an idea this has got to be.
And any Yes voters, don't waste your time replying to me, in fact ignore me cos as Evertonians I love ya like a like a brother, just concerning this ground move I wished my brothers weren?t thick as fuck.
You can shove your retail park stadiums, Cherryfield Drive & Destination Kirkby up your arses.
87 Posted 13/06/2008 at 15:04:39
I?m not sure why those who voted No are up in arms about a done deal and anyway aren?t they not going to follow Everton there. Surely their opinion doesn?t count one iota because they?re going to stay in Walton/County Road moaning in the pubs in their own little world about those shithead Yes-voting thousand upon thousands of Evertonians who will be going to the game... including the No voters who actually support the club not where we play.
Seems to me there ain?t an argument here... the club want the move, they gave a chance to say No, and they have not had a single worthwhile contribution from LCC, and we don?t have any money to rebuild... simple really isn?t it.
I?m just glad we never moved to Speke!
88 Posted 13/06/2008 at 15:13:41
Oops I?m commenting - bad habit!
89 Posted 13/06/2008 at 15:04:01
please do not be so deluded.
Tesco have stated THEY WILL NOT be making ANY financial contribution to EFC.
The Contaminated land that EFC will pay millions to Decontaminate (EFC"s own advisor confirmed this)that?s currently worthless EFC have to pay to lease it
The £50 million was calculated by assuming that using Barr construction (Tesco?s design and build contractors) that EFC would be able to get Tesco prices and therefore gain financially and that Tesco would forego their "normal" developer?s fee of £15 million.
But a blind man can see that?s total bullshit.
90 Posted 13/06/2008 at 15:58:10
Do you have any concrete evidence that says this is not the case. Cause if you dont you have just proved yourself wrong.
The £50 million was calculated by assuming that using Barr construction (Tesco?s design and build contractors) that EFC would be able to get Tesco prices and therefore gain financially and that Tesco would forego their "normal" developer?s fee of £15 million.
So Tesco will help Everton Fund it then.
91 Posted 13/06/2008 at 15:30:07
A bus containing say 60 people every 10 mins and a train containing say 300 every 20 mins - by my reckoning thats 1260 people every hour being able to get away from Kirkby on public transport.
With no parking allowed within three miles and a park and walk policy not many people will be driving there so tell me what your thoughts will be on a Sunday afternoon after a 3pm Sat kick-off when you are still waiting for your bus? The transport plan (and I use the term loosely)coudl well result inat scenario - just shows how much the club thinks about it’s bread and butter fans.
It is an absloute fucking joke from start to finish this whole project - based on lies and bull-shit on every aspect and yet people are still defending it. Unbelievable absolutely un-fucking believable
92 Posted 13/06/2008 at 16:08:27
".... whats the myth???
Everton are skint - Fact
Goodison is crap -Fact
We need a new stadium -Fact
Tesco are contribution £50m in some way - Fact"
If Everton are skint,fact, where are we going to get the £80m+ that we’ll need for Kirkby?
I would sooner see that £80m used to regenerate Goodison.
And keep some dignity without scuttling off to Knowsley to dance to Tescos tune.
93 Posted 13/06/2008 at 17:22:16
The solution is simple, Kenwright must sell as soon as this exclusivity period expires. In an era when foreign investors are queuing up to get there hands on Premier League clubs apparantly not one will consider buying a club of our stature or could it be that maybe Bill just says ?not for sale?.
I mean let's be honest the second he got into bed with Tesco he couldn?t sell even if he wanted to. When Kenwright & Wyness have long gone we could be stuck in the backwater of Kirkby. It would be wiser to sit it out even if the right investor doesn?t come along for another five years. Five years will seem like five seconds compared to an eternity in Kirkby.
94 Posted 13/06/2008 at 17:42:33
95 Posted 13/06/2008 at 18:02:09
the money for Kirkby is supposed to be coming from sale of Goodison (which we wouldnt get if we stayed there), naming rights to the new stadium (we couldnt do that now because of the uproar), sale of bellefield. The rest secured against future season ticket sales. Its a catch 22 situation, we only generate most of the cash from releasing our assets at Goodison
96 Posted 13/06/2008 at 18:49:30
"On the banks of the royal blue river Alt" If there is a god, this shambles will be called in by the government, and then kicked to the kerbside, because that is where it belongs, along with that slimy prick KW.
97 Posted 13/06/2008 at 19:04:06
98 Posted 13/06/2008 at 19:10:30
We are only going to Kirkby because KW gets a huge bonus for going there.
Said bonus is being funded by BK, whose sole interest is also to line his pockets.
BK has a cheaper, less risky and more profitable alternative staring him in the face, namely redevelopment of GP.
BK will make more money from said redevelopment of GP than he would from moving to Kirkby (and will not have to pay KW a big bonus!)
BK is therefore choosing the more expensive, more risky and less profitable option because....
Answers on a postcard, please....
99 Posted 13/06/2008 at 20:05:07
KW has tried this before with Aberdeen, using the same lies; decrepit stadium falling down, need to move to retail park - Aberdeen beat Rangers to give Celtic the title on the last day of the SPL, hasn’t KW been at Everton since 2004? How come Pittodrie hasn’t fallen down or been closed down?
KW is also running a stadium development company whilst on the payroll and clock of Everton FC and lo and behold Everton get into bed with a new stadium development - conflict of interest, if KW is running this business as independent of Everton FC what are the chances that he is receiving bonuses from KMBC and Tesco as the intermediary between the three parties as an independent company; finders fees, completion bonuses, signing on bonuses etc?
The same KW failed to market the Sydney Olympics beyond a single client who he had to pay an out of court settlement to and had an acrimonious departure from Australia that is bullshittingly referred to on his precis on the official website as "the lure of a return home to Aberdeen was too strong".
KW’s failures are all in the public domain for anyone with the smallest amount of ability to find in black and white.
BK went missing during the whole vote and has a list as long as your arm of documented lies during his reign as "true blue Bill"
100 Posted 13/06/2008 at 20:41:51
Spoken like a true politican - you gave a very detailed response.....
Just not to my question, unfortunately....
101 Posted 13/06/2008 at 21:40:06
102 Posted 13/06/2008 at 22:06:31
103 Posted 13/06/2008 at 22:43:26
I don’t recall giving a sermon extolling their virtues, but I cannot think of a logical reason why BK, if his sole aim was to make more money out of Everton, would choose an option which apparently is more expensive, more risky and less profitable?
Given the glaring character trait of greed and deceit which seems to be the main assumption, I just really cannot see why this would be his choice if it’s more expensive, more risky and less profitable.
I know I’m labouring the point, but I just can’t see how that works.
104 Posted 13/06/2008 at 16:17:04
thats the equivalent of Redrow telling you your house would normally be 125000 but they’ll let you have it at the market value of 100,000 and therefore are giving you 25,000.
In other words dont be so fucking stupid.
105 Posted 13/06/2008 at 22:49:28
Another one who doesn?t always agree with you but you do hit the nail. The whole Kirkby thing is turning into an embarrassing farce and the club seems intent on going against the wishes of the masses. Even those who voted yes now have serious doubts because the reality simply doesn?t reflect what was proposed at the time of the ballot.
Just two things (I always have to disagree with you on something!!):
a. I don?t think BK means bad - he genuinely is a blue and wants best for the club. I just think he doesn?t have another option available to him. We can?t stay at Goodison and nothing else appears available within his ability. Despite the limitations, I actually like having someone like BK in the chair rather than an unpredicatable foreign or business "knee-jerk" type owner (LFC, Man City, Newcastle style).
b. Can?t we just extend the city boundaries?!!! Kirkby and its residents are as scouse as the Mersey mud anyway. I know we have political boundaries, but lets be honest, places like Huyton, Kirkby, Bootle and Halewood are all considered Liverpool even if their Council Tax bills don?t reflect that.
To say we?ve lost the city is a strong statement. The fact that Man Utd have technically never resided in the City of Manchester has never effected their association with their "home" city despite what Shitee fans say.
106 Posted 13/06/2008 at 23:17:50
Goodison is mortgaged to at least but probably more than its current value so no money there then.
Bellefield has just been flatly denied PP so is pretty valueless and the so called naming rights have been estimated to be worth no more than £2.5 million a year for 7 to 10 years.
In other words we will take on an interest bill of about £10 million a year and generate £2.5 million plus whatever other income a stadium with a few millstones around its neck can and if we?re lucky beyond even the most optimistic financial analyst?s expectations we will break even.
Hardly a reason to build a cowshed on contaminated land in a tiny backwater hamlet is it?
107 Posted 13/06/2008 at 23:29:20
WHY CAN'T WE STAY AT GOODISON?
It has already been demonstrated that the board were talking total bullshit when they said GP could not be redeveloped.
Just look at the article on the front page of Toffeeweb and then come back here and tell us GP can't be developed.
108 Posted 14/06/2008 at 00:00:29
I have been to Bolton, Old Trafford, Man City and even Blackburn for a variety of reasons and they all have one thing in common - charging a lot of money to attend. At a recent conference I attended at OT the delegate rate was £395 per person for the day, there were between 120 and 150 people present in one conference room and to the best of my knowledge 3 other conferences were taking place around the ground at the same time. I turned up, parked my car with all the other sad souls, attended the meeting and then drove home. It did not make the slightest difference to me or anybody else that OT was not in the city centre -we attended and then left. In terms of organisation they needed good facilities, good av systems, a clean environment and decent accessible parking alongside the ground.
When people talk of corporate facilities all that is mentioned are the boxes at match days. I believe that most clubs with modern stadiums see corporate use as something way beyond the 20+ match days, and look to generate income from the types of things I mention. Arsenal charged £500 for a similar event so think how much they generate !!!
I?m not pointing these things out to advance Kirkby but rather to point out the futility of the ?redevelop GP argument?. The footprint may or may not provide a 55,000 seater stadium (I genuinely don?t) but the rest will not provide the type of facility that clubs like Bolton, Man U, City and others benefit from. If you want to rebuild GP as a football ground without the extensive corporate facilities needed for life in the present business world then accept that we will never generate the income to live with even the average teams (MU excepted), and we all know where no money long term leads to.
109 Posted 14/06/2008 at 03:06:14
I know you probably didnt mean to sound condescending but I should point out that I have had a lifetime of corporate facilities including being a regular guest of one of the director’s of Manchester United and ranging from Spurs to Barcelona including being flown by private jet with the Norwich City board of directors to the Anfield boardroom so please dont mistake me for someone who doesnt know what corporate facilities are about.
The proposals for GP redevelopment contain just as many corporate facilities as Kirkby if not more and they are not compromised by having to give them FREE to KMBC for a third of the year not that I think the corporate facilities at Kirkby will be used that much anyway.
The business people I know want somewhere within touching distance of the City and I know from talking to quite a few of them they do not want to take guests to Kirkby.
Apart from that I think too many people are hung up on the "extra " income that will come from corporate.
Our major gap is commercial income.
For example Spurs with a capacity of only 36000 get 40 million from marketing and merchandising.
EFC get 3 million.
Doesnt that tell you where we should be concentrating not chasing some pigsty in Kirkby.
110 Posted 14/06/2008 at 10:00:35
111 Posted 14/06/2008 at 10:26:35
... any mortgage on Goodison is included in the clubs debts, which will be transferable to any new ground (the debt that is), if we sell Goodison for £Xm when moving grounds then that money is paid off the clubs debt, which would work out the same as not paying off our original debt but instead paying it towards the new stadium, ie it is £Xm off the clubs debt or off the new stadium - same difference. As for Bellefield, it may have been refused now, but it will eventually get the required planning permision, and naming rights - £2.5m over 10 years = £25m?!?!
112 Posted 14/06/2008 at 12:40:42
IF we get £15 million for GP and the mortgage is £15 million then that has to be paid off but we still have to borrow at least £78 million for Kirkby so there?s no gain.
There is very little chance of EFC getting PP if the planning committee is so opposed to it and even if they did it would be significantly scaled down from what they propose and therefore worth a lot less.
The naming rights are not paid up front and therefore we would have to borrow that £25 million as part of the £78 million costing about £10 million year interest less the £2.5 million naming rights(only for 7 to 10 years).
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