ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Kirkby and Toffeeweb

It seems, having read many posts over the last few weeks and months about the ground move, that a large majority of Toffeeweb readers do NOT want to move to KIrkby. Its hard to quantify a figure but 70% against is a fairly conservative estimate.

So, if there is a majority of fans who decide to vote for a move to Kirkby, perhaps it will raise some uncomfortable questions for this website that many of us enjoy trawling through. The likes of Dave Prentice and Dominic King always say that cyber commentators like ourselves are NOT representative of true fans, that we are the vocal minority. This is something that I have never subscribed to, but what if they're right? What if the silent majority of Blues want to move, do buy into Bill and Keith's dream?

Could it be that this website is just a platform for the extremist minority. That for every Tony Marsh there are ten Doddys or Dutchs? If the Ground Move vote produces a healthy majority in favour of relocation, then I fear that the credibility of this website, plus those of us who mistrust Kenwright and Wyness with a passion, will be wiped out. After all, who wants to be part of some lunatic fringe?
Gareth Hughes, Liverpool Posted 22/07/2007 at 12:27:20

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Comments

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Michael Kenrick

You are absolutely right that the vote could provide endorsement for "The Kirkby Project". You are absolutely right that sites like this tend to reflect in part the negative pespective ? it's so much easier to knock something down than it is to build it up. But then you make the huge mistake of tieing the reputation and credibility of this entire website to one issue. Wrong.

If ya know yer history, you will know that people on or writing to this website have always spoken out about issues they care about. The massive debate going on right now among our pages simply reflects how strong feelings are running ? both for and against the Kirkby project.

The issue you raise is really one of democracy and human nature ? it's got nothing to do with the credibility of this website. Silent majorities are a fact of life. No matter which way the vote goes, it will not change the passionate feelings of those fans, or alter by one iota the mistrust some have for Kenwright and Wyness.

You have to realise this also: what portion of Everton fans eligible to vote actually use this website? It's a small subset. But the fact that they do makes them far more informed about the issues than those who don't. That sounds cocky but I think you'd find it was true. Does it change people's views? I very much doubt it...

Perhaps not the best example to cite but one which I think illustrates this point. Look at the information we provided about the sordid background to the shameful Rooney saga. What portion of people's views was changed by that? I think very few. Those who do not believe Rooney's departure was manipulated by people from both inside and outside the club, but think he was simply turned by the big lights of Old Trafford, are still by far in the vast majority. Does that make them right?

It's the same about the Kirkby Project and what it may mean for BK & KW ? what do they stand to gain personally out of this deal? Now 95% of Evertonains don't give a toss about that. They don't care. They only care about the team. This website is not for them. It's for the 5% who do care. Who care passionately about anything and everything related to Everton FC ? not just "the team". If that makes us the "lunatic fringe", so be it. We ain't changing!

Connor Rohrer
1 Posted 22/07/2007 at 17:38:41

To be honest it is very important to me that we stay in Liverpool. Its just tradition. We are a liverpool team not a Knowsley team. I think a large amount of people do care on this website but do not understand the whole situation. I would say I am one of those people. I dont know all he details, the pro’s and the cons of moving to Kirkby.

I would love us to stay at Goodison and if it can be redeveloped then great but it looks very unlikely. I will be able to vote and I will vote against Kirkby. But to be honest will this Ballot mean anything? At the end of the day the likes of Kenwright and Wyness are the ones that decide our future. In my opinion, it is a deal done.

The thing I am dissapointed mostly is the fans. People writing on the echo, toffeeweb, Bluekipper, NSNO etc that they will not be attending matches if we move to Kirkby. That really does disgust me. What is the distance four miles? I would go and watch everton wherever they played.

Brian Waring
2 Posted 22/07/2007 at 18:20:30

Gareth,this is probalby the only site that allows two sides to every arguement.Some of the other sites won’t even print any negativaty towards the club.Can you imagine Marshy trying to get some of his mails printed on them.What I love about coming on here is that we can all give our opinion on the hot debate of the day,without any biase from the lads who run the site.And I for one say"long may it continue".

Bob Patterson
3 Posted 22/07/2007 at 19:02:04

Michael, caring about just "the team" covers an awful lot. You're out of order.

Michael Kenrick
4 Posted 22/07/2007 at 19:12:41

Bob, there are many Evertonians who only care about what happens on the field, with the team itself. They can?t be arsed about all this Kenright / Wyness / Board of Directors / club finance / ring-fencing / investment search 24/7 bullshit. I know this for a fact because I?ve been running this website for over 10 years, and they tell me just that. They are simply NOT INTERESTED.

They are the silent majority who don?t want to have to think too much about the real issues, who will buy into Any Dream Will Do, and who will take us smiling and laughing to Bill & Buster?s glorius new freebie future down the East Lancs Rd. How is that "out of order'?

Tony Ainscough
5 Posted 22/07/2007 at 20:25:39

Gareth if you look at the posts they are all from the same handful of people they must sit by there computers all day. Most of them are just pub bores who think they know it all

Tony Miller
6 Posted 22/07/2007 at 20:42:33

I am one of the silent majority in that I do at times post to this site I am not regular with regards to contributions.

I visit each day read the thoughts of my fellow blues and consider that many differ from me with regards to how they see the club currently.

I may not agree with Tony Marsh or others who strongly oppose this move but I would not say they are idiots who want to drag the club down and don’t care about our past or future.However the more I read I start to feel that maybe it is me who is thick, or an idiot who will drag the club down by not considering our history or our future.

However I do care about the club both on and off the field. I do consider what is being said by groups such as KEIOC and members of this site. I am an educated man in his 40s who has supported the club since the 70s. I am a season ticket holder as I am lucky enogth to be able to afford one for me and my son.I live 10 miles from the ground at the moment and any move will not cause me discomfort be that travel or finacial.

Looking at the polls on this site and others there is an even split to those who have voted, I howwever doubt this will be the same come the final ballot but who knows.

I will vote YES for the move as after consideration I belive this is in the best interests of the club. You may not agree with me and thyat is your right but do not state I am any less of an Evertonian than you nor that I am thick or an idiot. As Evertonians we are better than that, have been in the past are now and will be in the future.

Tony Miller
7 Posted 22/07/2007 at 20:58:48

P.S. apologies to ed should have checked the grammer and spelling.

Roy coyne
8 Posted 22/07/2007 at 23:00:20

First how can the views posted on here discredit toffeeweb I’m sure there is a disclaimer about the letter being the writers opinion not the site,Second there are a lot of seasoned Evertonians who while mature in there views would never dream of posting or reading any thing on the Internet indeed out of the seven mates(myself included) only I bother the others have there own things now I know that we all will vote NO now I’m not saying who will win the vote I don’t know but these people to be kind the over 50s who could sway the vote and I’m sure some of these will be pro move but no one getting old really likes change but I think the move is a done deal I just hope a few years down the line we all laugh how we fretted over nothing.

Colin Hughes
9 Posted 22/07/2007 at 23:39:55

I tend to agree with you. generally more will vote against moving to kirkby than for and I think the powers that be at goodison know this. But they have got to be seen to be making an attempt on the stadium front(especially with Lfc building in stanley park) because they know the fans are fed up with our lack of financial muscle in the transfer market.The fact that wyness said there is no plan B says it all to me really, we have nothing to spend of our own cash it,s just tesco,s baby this kirky thing.

kieran fitzgerald
10 Posted 23/07/2007 at 14:37:46

I think websites like this one are very important for fans of clubs outside of the big four.

Alex Ferguson cannot break wind without it getting reported in the national media. The same goes for the Man Utd Board. As a result every single thing the club does is going to get reported in all the papers. The national press both in Britain and here in Ireland also fill column inch after column inch with speculation and opinion on the top four clubs at every oportunity .All this generally makes Utd’s and Chelsea’s and Arsenal’s fans highly informed as a result.

If you’re Everton or Blackburn or Wigan it doesn’t matter how open or efficient your Board is, you’re small fry to the national press. They don’t want to know.The result is that there is rarely ever a main piece in a national paper regarding one of these clubs. Everton are looking to build a new ground and have the P.R machine on overtime yet there is little interest in the papers. It says it all.

This makes websites like this one important because fans are willing to post information and opinions that are invaluable to us all in terms of broadening our knowledge of the club.

As Michael has said, there will always be alot of fans who just don’t want to know. Your Saturday only and armchair fans are happy as they are and let them off. For fans who do want to know what’s going on, encourage them. Tony Marsh or Richard Dodd, it doesn’t matter in the main. Just use the website and build your knowledge.