ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

More comparisons

Having seen the first artist's impressions of the Kirby Project, I am overwhelmed by how poor it is. But, fellow Everton fans, have a look at what other similar sized and smaller clubs are planning around Europe (including in places like Gdansk, Donetsk and Bilbao) and make you're own decisions:

http://www.stadiumguide.com/balticarena.htm
http://www.stadiumguide.com/sanmamesnew.htm
http://www.stadiumguide.com/shakhtarnew.htm
http://www.stadiumguide.com/zaragozanew.htm
http://www.stadiumguide.com/espanolnew.htm

If you really care about what we're being offered have a good look round the site: http://www.stadiumguide.com/future.htm

The only one I could find that looks like ours was this one from Poland: http://www.stadiumguide.com/wisla.htm

I was against the plan to move to Kirkby anyway, but thought I'd wait and see what the actual stadium plans were to make a final decision. The result is so conservative, boring, outdated and parochial that I'm actually embarrassed by it.
Ben Connor, UK Posted 25/07/2007 at 18:13:51

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Comments

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Robbie Muldoon
1 Posted 25/07/2007 at 18:22:18

It is this post that has confirmed in my mind, no matter what anybody else says, that the images of the proposed Kirkby project are absolute shite.

Ben you say Stadion Wisly is the closest to our one, which it is, yet so much better.

PEOPLE VOTE NO. Just don’t do it!

Dan Mckie
2 Posted 25/07/2007 at 18:29:06

What do people think we will then get if we do say ’no’ on the vote?

Will BK then say "ok,I tried to do it on the cheap but it didnt work so heres 400 million I had stashed away to build something akin to wembley!"

No,thought not,instead we will be fucked!

Tom Hughes
3 Posted 25/07/2007 at 18:38:25

How will we be F****d? At least we know we can all get to Goodison, we’ve been doing it for over 100 years, can you say with any certainty that, that will be the case in Kirkby. Of course you’re also assuming we’re getting Kirkby for next to nowt, and attach no value to preserving our traditions and like most businesses staying located close to our core customer base. Lose these two factors and we may end up totally F****d. Vote NO, Stay where we are and in the meantime strengthen the team with the deposit money we’re currently keeping from Davie Moyes. Let him build on the progress of last season and then we may attract the kind of benefactor who’s currently helping Liverpool Build the stadium they couldn’t afford.

John Holmes
4 Posted 25/07/2007 at 18:53:22

I liked the look of the stadium the Kirkby ground was to be modelled on, the scaffold on the outside was a nice artistic touch but sadly I think that’s been lost a bit in our new ground images.

That said I’m inclined to be somewhat sceptical about your site. Everton’s isn’t listed on there and the New Anfield images bear no relation to those released today. Also, most of the grounds, whilst initially striking, are featureless bowls much like those that are being built by every other club in Britain with no money.

Nick Entwistle
5 Posted 25/07/2007 at 18:55:35

Obviously the 5 you highlighted are in cahoots with not Tesco but Fortnum & Mason...

Seamus Murphy
6 Posted 25/07/2007 at 19:13:09

None of those blew me away either. In fact some of them were way worse than the proposed kirkby project. Having said that i am still voting no but not because Shaktar Donestk are building a lovely stadium (which will probably never happen)

Shaun Brennan
7 Posted 25/07/2007 at 19:15:00

Great Post mate.

The things that strike me the most with the stadiums on the links is that, those stadiums actually look real.

Dan Mckie
8 Posted 25/07/2007 at 19:29:20

Tom Hughes,at least we all know we can get to Goodison? Kirkby is 4 miles away not 4 light years away and we may attract a rich benefactor if we are more successful on the pitch but it doesn’t mean BK will sell,thats my point,Everton could have a queue of billionaires hammering at the door but if the owner wont sell then it doesn’t make a blind bit of difference and thats his right!

Ben Brown
9 Posted 25/07/2007 at 19:54:51

Personally I think the Zaragoza one looks incredible.

James Newcombe
10 Posted 25/07/2007 at 20:04:27

Seen the Zaragoza one before, best of the lot by a mile. Absolutely stunning! I’m sure people would leave Liverpool (by a few miles) for that kind of stadium...

Karl Jones
11 Posted 25/07/2007 at 20:59:59

I would prefer the Everton design to any of those. Some of them are just the usual bowls with fancy rooves.The pitch would be a mudbath with our merseyside weather. Zaragoza looks just wierd, and the Everton design is miles better than the Polish one which looks like Brightons old ground.

Dan Mckie
12 Posted 25/07/2007 at 21:11:28

All those stadiums look naff,and the one in Kirkby may have been described as a ’cowshed’ by some bitter council muppet but it will be our cowshed (on tescos land) and thats good enough for me!

John Crawley
13 Posted 25/07/2007 at 21:10:57

Ben, Thanks for the information. Really useful to compare what we are being offered to what is going on around Europe. However it made me even more depressed than I already am about moving to the proposed stadium at Kirkby. Looking at all of these other designs I think what we are being offered is a second rate design & build stadium. We should vote No.

Blue Karl
14 Posted 25/07/2007 at 21:19:45

Well, this has made up my mind! On the day Liverpool show the world what a stadium design is supposed to be - modern, eyecatching, but with a nod to tradition ( Kop etc ) this has exposed Kirkby as a second rate design. Funnily enough, the Espanol stadium looks remarkably like Kirkby. Funny that, a team in the shadows of a big neighbour with a majestic stadium. That could be us too. But, NO! We are not Espanol, we are Everton. 4th most successful team ever in this country. Accept second best now and regret it forever.

My mind is made up. Vote No, stay at Goodison, forcing Kenwright to allow in proper investment, that like Liverpool will enable us to build something better than Kirkby in the right place in the fullness of time. It’s time to be brave Evertonians and look beyond the ends of your noses.

Tony Ainscough
15 Posted 25/07/2007 at 22:47:50

FFS ive seen it all now get a fucking life

Roy coyne
16 Posted 25/07/2007 at 23:02:55

What bothers me is no stadium looks as good as the impressions given out before hand and I don’t think there good enough god help us when its built I’m voting NO

Dave Turner
17 Posted 25/07/2007 at 23:04:22

I got to say, those stadia are horrible!!

Ok the "Kirkby Project" isn’t the greatest, but it nice than them!

Also, that thing they building on Stanley Park now... Please, someone, somewhere complain that it is the biggest eyesore in history of British Football grounds.. Not just saying that because it is to be home of the RS, saying it out of good taste!

Paul Moorhouse
18 Posted 25/07/2007 at 22:48:38

Sorry Ben, I just dont agree with you. I think the Kirkby design is fantastic, a proper football stadium with the fans steeply banked and right on top of the pitch.Very much in the Everton tradition. Most of those designs are weird, what were people expecting the Sydney Opera House ! I live in the south and everyone I’ve shown the design to (supporters of other clubs) thinks its very impressive. It all comes down to weather you support the idea of going to Kirkby or not. If B.K. anounced we could build that stadium on the Goodison site everyone would think it was the best design they’d ever seen. The city boundry is a line on a map drawn years ago by a faceless councilors / politicians. It has changed before and will do so again. Are we so lacking in our own sense of identity that we allow that criteria to decide this great clubs future. I just dont buy into the nonsense I’ve read about kids all supporting the other lot because we move 4 miles down the road to a place that most people think is in Liverpool anyway. Following that kind of logic would mean that Basingstoke must be a suburb of Madrid, the amount of shirts I see around here. We dont have and cant borrow £200 mill, there is nothing else on the table. The second we say no to Kirkby we lose any bargaining strength we might have had with L.C.C. Watch them put us on the back burner again. I have no problem with going to Kirkby whatsoever. Remember your history, dont live in the past and build for the future.

Tom Hughes
19 Posted 26/07/2007 at 13:21:47

Paul Moorehouse says:
"proper football stadium with the fans steeply banked and right on top of the pitch.Very much in the Everton tradition."

Have to disagree mate, You wont be as close to the action as you are at GP..... not by a margin. These are stepped two tier stands. The overlap will be only 2-4 rows. therefore for a corresponding height at Goodison you will be significantly closer by virtue of the fully overlapping tiers. This is the cheapest form of two tiered arrangement, and not strictly a double-decker format at all. Therefore the nod to our taditions is wishfull thinking at best. Also, the gaps in the corners are wide open and not a bit reflective of the superior Cologne stadium. This again is another concession to cheap construction in that corner sections generally cost between 1.5 and 3 times the cost of straight sections. In essence we would be recreating the corner problems that Rangers have been trying to remedy for 20 years at great expense. Fact is this a basic of-the-shelf layout which can produced on a sight-line modeller in minutes. A slightly extended version of what we have seen all over the country. As far as only 4 miles..... please study the local geography and transport network...... we’re supposed to be making it easier for future fans to watch their team....... this simply is not possible out of town. Ask any stadium design consultancy!