The Mail Bag
I Don't Go To Goodison
Comments (30)
Let me explain: I am 31 years old; I was at Goodison when we won the league in 85 (my first ever game). I was born and bred a Toffee and will be to the day I die.
I am a professional person on a very good wage and in many ways, I'm just the type of person Everton want to attract. I went to University in Leeds and I made a number of friends who supported Everton. Apart from me, none were from Liverpool, instead they were often from London (Think of the age and it makes sense).
In 2020, there will be scoucers at universities who will be wearing Chelsea shirts. We went to many games when at University but nearly all were away games as they were easier to get to. Indeed many of these London Evertonians only ever went to away games.
I now live in Hull with a young family. I don't go to Goodison but I would like to. Why? Try and get to Goodison for a 12 o'clock Sky kick-off and then get home again. Indeed, try and get out of Goodison and back to Hull from a 3pm kick off. What time do you reckon you get back? 10-11pm at night generally.
It is these people like myself who Everton need to attract and I can guarantee are more likely to go to a new ground in Kirkby and there are many more of them than you might think looking at my University experience.
Look at the situation again: Kirkby 3pm kick off out of ground and on the motorway bu 5:30; home by 8 at the latest for tea. This is why Kirkby is appealing ? it WILL attract the missing masses. Especially people like myself who find going to Goodison now virtually impossible. Without trying to sound snobbish, most of these people will also bring one additional thing: MONEY!
Attract the professionals and you get their money. Unfortunately the traditional football supporter loses out but take one look at the Premier League and that is already the reality to survive. Turn down Kirkby and I really can see the end of Everton in the top flight plus for many of the same reasons I think Liverpool are making a big mistake building in Stanley Park.
Dave Fitzsy, Posted 26/07/2007 at 20:18:11
Comments
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Michael Kenrick
Uh? Wouldn't we have snapped up the Stanley Park option? Why will that be a mistake for LFC?
patty blue
1 Posted 27/07/2007 at 08:51:09
1 Posted 27/07/2007 at 08:51:09
If I can do a round trip from Carmarthen leaving at 8 and getting home by 9.30 p.m. without any hassle in getting to Goodison, so can you!!
Gavin
2 Posted 27/07/2007 at 08:54:32
2 Posted 27/07/2007 at 08:54:32
According to Dave’s article Michael the reason he believes RS have made a mistake building on Stanley Park is road access.
I would also suggest that a glass building might not stay unscathed for long.
I would also suggest that a glass building might not stay unscathed for long.
Martin
3 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:13:42
3 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:13:42
Kirkby has even less transport access than goodison, think about that
Ray Robinson
4 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:15:38
4 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:15:38
Dave, I would suggest it might take you equally as long to get back to Hull from Kirkby as it does from GP.
Can’t see your reasoning there.
Can’t see your reasoning there.
Dave Fitzsy
5 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:23:28
5 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:23:28
The reasoning is the M57. Make sure you have good connecting roads and you are accessible to the country. Car parks near by etc. Compare that to Goodison or Stanley Park 30 minute walk to your car. I assume Liverpool will get the parking sorted though. Appalling road access etc. Hour + in stationary traffic to get out of Walton.
If Kirkby is to be a success it needs good road networks. If it has these you will see more out of town blues come to the game. Believe me they do exist.
Next time you go to an away game see how many don’t go to Goodison and ask them why you might be surprised.
If Kirkby is to be a success it needs good road networks. If it has these you will see more out of town blues come to the game. Believe me they do exist.
Next time you go to an away game see how many don’t go to Goodison and ask them why you might be surprised.
Ray Robinson
6 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:39:00
6 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:39:00
But I travel back to Warrington which is down the M62 and I can be back home at 6pm. I’m sure you can make it back to Hull in less than 5 hours! I’ll give you some tips on where to park and a couple of shortcuts back home!
I admit the Stanley Park can be a nightmare but what makes you think that any car park off the M57 will be any better?
I admit the Stanley Park can be a nightmare but what makes you think that any car park off the M57 will be any better?
Steve Guy
7 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:42:55
7 Posted 27/07/2007 at 09:42:55
Dave, given your idea of timings, possibly you have a disability. If this is the case I apologise in advance, but I do not recognise your timings at all. I park in the Anfield Comp car park so I am back in my car for 5:10 latest. Even for some of the more well attended games I am back in Harrogate by 7pm (try using the East Lancs A580 through to the M62). Even if I divert to Warrington to pick up my wife from the In Laws I am back for 7:30. Hull is about another hour on from Leeds. So your aspiration to be home for 8pm is very achievable. Like I say I apologise if you have some personal problem which slows you down, but otherwise it sounds like you’ve convinced yourself it’s all too much like hard work.
Ian A
8 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:12:57
8 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:12:57
I live 35 miles away from goodison and I’m home before Moyes has been interviewed post match.
Hull by 8pm.....easy even in a robin reliant!
Hull by 8pm.....easy even in a robin reliant!
Marc R
9 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:22:47
9 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:22:47
Dave it sounds like your driving west to get home.... go east its much faster!
Ged Dwyer
10 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:22:28
10 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:22:28
’Try and get to Hull by 10-11pm after a 3pm kick off’. Rubbish. My cousin leaves at the final whistle and always gets back to Manchester no later than 6.30pm after dropping me off! You are saying that it takes 2 to 3 hours to get to Kirkby from Goodison on a match day. Lies! Why do you have to lie to support your argument?
Tom Hughes
11 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:25:12
11 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:25:12
Dave Fitzy: Beware the urban myth of motorway access to stadia. Ask yourself why they’re knocking-down the out of town freeway laden stadia in the USA for downtown versions, some even without carparks. Besides, the majority of Evertonians still live within the Merseyside metropolitan area..... so why would you move to the edge of the highest concentration of your custumers? You will surely lose some due to the added inconvenience. How many of these distant supporters are really going to bolster our attendances because we’ll be in Kirkby (1-3,000?)? Are they nearly as numerous as the local regular match-goers (30,000+)? Very few out of towners will attend if they need to use public transport that’s for sure (into Lime street then out to Kirkby?). As you say yourself, you rarely attend these days.... I’d suggest a better familiarisation would enable you to find a quicker route away. I doubt very much you will even find a Parking space in Kirkby (the provision looks tiny), and that’ll be hours after you enter the M57 tailback anyway.
Matt Brown
12 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:31:19
12 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:31:19
Dave, I can see your point. I too would look forward to going to the new ground knowing my nice car will be safe in a car park with a good chance I could be on the motorway at the very latest 30 mins after the final whistle.
I may even consider getting a season ticket for the new ground based on the reasons above.
What would break my heart though, is if the roar and electric atmosphere found in Goodison at 2.55pm on matchday had desserted us due to the Gladyss st and Park end crew not having their usual matchday experience of the local pubs for pre match speculation and beers, and the short walk to the gate getting the vocal chords in tune to cheer the boys on... I’m torn on this one!
I may even consider getting a season ticket for the new ground based on the reasons above.
What would break my heart though, is if the roar and electric atmosphere found in Goodison at 2.55pm on matchday had desserted us due to the Gladyss st and Park end crew not having their usual matchday experience of the local pubs for pre match speculation and beers, and the short walk to the gate getting the vocal chords in tune to cheer the boys on... I’m torn on this one!
tom lynch
13 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:57:32
13 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:57:32
snobby git i wiil definitly vote no if its the likes of you the new stadium attracts
Andy Ainsworth
14 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:21:58
14 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:21:58
How can there be 2-3hours extra on your journey from Goodison but not Kirkby? Goodison is only 1hr max from the M57 motorway in all the match day traffic on a bad day. Are you cycling to the game from Hull?!
kev
15 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:23:05
15 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:23:05
WHAT A LOAD OF PURE SHITE !!!!!cant believe people like this . I to , like patty blue am from carmarthen and have no probs getting to and from gp .
tonyf
16 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:16:06
16 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:16:06
I live in fazakerley and often on match days I dont get home until the very next day.This is because I have to negotiate the crowds of the winslow , spellow, oak , harlech etc....
Ian Buffey
17 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:16:00
17 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:16:00
Dave,
Do you walk back to Hull?
Taking it easy you should be home by 7:30 to 8 p.m. from a 3p.m. kick off.
We go to all home games from East Hull and it’s well worth the trip.
Goodison is noted for clearing traffic pretty quickly & I’d say the difference from Kirkby would be negligable.
Do you walk back to Hull?
Taking it easy you should be home by 7:30 to 8 p.m. from a 3p.m. kick off.
We go to all home games from East Hull and it’s well worth the trip.
Goodison is noted for clearing traffic pretty quickly & I’d say the difference from Kirkby would be negligable.
Mo Awada
18 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:42:46
18 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:42:46
I’m a London Blue and travel up to at least 80% of games at GP... I leave London at 8am drive up watch the game and am back home by 10.30pm/11pm...(Oh and I stay still the end and im right in thinking that London is a just that little further away to GP then Hull is ????
Roy coyne
19 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:24:51
19 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:24:51
Dave if you email Everton I am sure they would delay the kick off for someone of your standing
Tom Hughes
20 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:38:40
20 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:38:40
It’s obvious..... Fitzy get’s lost in Liverpool.
Sam Peter
21 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:34:51
21 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:34:51
I agree with Mo on this one Dave -and yeah i know your taking a severe ribbing here - but mate I live in Tunbridge Wells (40 Miles below London - in Mid Kent) and I get home at 11 after a 3pm KO. Maybe your half Chinese and take a rickshaw home.
True I have to drive like shit off a shovel - but a round trip to Goodison is 10 hours approx and by 22:30 Im cursing the day I watched a cup final in ’89 and decided to support the blue team. I thought Everton was in London.
Anyhow I digress.. I love em again in the morning.
True I have to drive like shit off a shovel - but a round trip to Goodison is 10 hours approx and by 22:30 Im cursing the day I watched a cup final in ’89 and decided to support the blue team. I thought Everton was in London.
Anyhow I digress.. I love em again in the morning.
Chad Schofield
22 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:35:35
22 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:35:35
Christ Dave, what did you study at university? How to make friends and influence people?!
I wish I could get up to more games, being based in the South West... I could moan to about the M6 etc, but in fairness loads of people manage it... I don’t because generally I have other things on - sad but true. I try and get to most of the London games as I can stay overnight. Whilst you say a lot that’s true (but pretty much anyone realises, exapanded fan base massively in the 80s), the money side is an unbeleiveable thing to say.
Just because you go up and sit in the posh seats buying a couple of bits of memorabilia along the way on your day out when you go to a game, think how much those people who go to every home game and try to get to away games too spend a year.
Try spending some of your good wage on adjusting your attitude rather than trying to act like lord of the manor... You live in Hull for fuck’s sake!
I wish I could get up to more games, being based in the South West... I could moan to about the M6 etc, but in fairness loads of people manage it... I don’t because generally I have other things on - sad but true. I try and get to most of the London games as I can stay overnight. Whilst you say a lot that’s true (but pretty much anyone realises, exapanded fan base massively in the 80s), the money side is an unbeleiveable thing to say.
Just because you go up and sit in the posh seats buying a couple of bits of memorabilia along the way on your day out when you go to a game, think how much those people who go to every home game and try to get to away games too spend a year.
Try spending some of your good wage on adjusting your attitude rather than trying to act like lord of the manor... You live in Hull for fuck’s sake!
tom lynch
23 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:16:49
23 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:16:49
Are you Bk’s cousin altough probally not as you clain to have plenty cash.
ed
24 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:06:59
24 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:06:59
Ed Fitz (No relation I might add!)
A classic wind-up it has to be! I forgot that Liverpool and its surrounding districts had no professional people who support Everton FC. I often sit with my fellow Evertonians discussing Proust, Hegel and the vagaries of traffic flow on the M62 in the park end, rather than talk about the match! Listen mate stay in Hull please, you are one sad and deluded individual. This post just makes me glad I sit amongst Evertonians who are grounded people who love EFC, whether they have a doctorate or whether sign on.
A classic wind-up it has to be! I forgot that Liverpool and its surrounding districts had no professional people who support Everton FC. I often sit with my fellow Evertonians discussing Proust, Hegel and the vagaries of traffic flow on the M62 in the park end, rather than talk about the match! Listen mate stay in Hull please, you are one sad and deluded individual. This post just makes me glad I sit amongst Evertonians who are grounded people who love EFC, whether they have a doctorate or whether sign on.
Dave Fitzsy
25 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:31:50
25 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:31:50
Yes the comments are meant to be controversial.
Yes I do believe some of what I said. Some of it was just for stir though and rather tongue in cheek.
Did I expect many of you to agree with it? Of course I did not and I respect that fully.
The main reason was to make people think.
Listen to the Wyness comment 4.5 million in our catchment area if we move to Kirkby. Do you not think he has thought the same when planning to move to Kirkby? He thinks he can attract more people and that is his reason for moving to such a site. The M57 is the key. With good secure car parking and IF they can provide genuine motorway access whick is quick to get on and off it will be a good thing for many(but not all) people moving outside of Liverpool. I know I am more likely to go to the match. Put crap access in and 1-2 hour traffic jams trying to get on the M57 like many out of hour shopping centres and it will destroy the club and then YES i would be more likely to go to Goodison.
The key I believe to all this(and I don’t expect you to all agree) is the link roads and that is what little of has been provided yet. Good motorway access and good public transport on matchdays(prefably free from around the Goodison area) to the ground will make or break this project. Put poor access in and the ground will fail make it great and we won’t look back.
This is what we need to know before a vote can genuinely be cast either way!!
Yes I do believe some of what I said. Some of it was just for stir though and rather tongue in cheek.
Did I expect many of you to agree with it? Of course I did not and I respect that fully.
The main reason was to make people think.
Listen to the Wyness comment 4.5 million in our catchment area if we move to Kirkby. Do you not think he has thought the same when planning to move to Kirkby? He thinks he can attract more people and that is his reason for moving to such a site. The M57 is the key. With good secure car parking and IF they can provide genuine motorway access whick is quick to get on and off it will be a good thing for many(but not all) people moving outside of Liverpool. I know I am more likely to go to the match. Put crap access in and 1-2 hour traffic jams trying to get on the M57 like many out of hour shopping centres and it will destroy the club and then YES i would be more likely to go to Goodison.
The key I believe to all this(and I don’t expect you to all agree) is the link roads and that is what little of has been provided yet. Good motorway access and good public transport on matchdays(prefably free from around the Goodison area) to the ground will make or break this project. Put poor access in and the ground will fail make it great and we won’t look back.
This is what we need to know before a vote can genuinely be cast either way!!
lue
26 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:51:35
26 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:51:35
well Dave I’m gobsmacked by some of your comments, I don’t know whether you meant to insult the rest of us but you did tweak my working class background, or maybe I’m just being a typical (adopted) scouser with a big chip on my shoulder?, I jest.
I’m not an expert on Liverpool to Hull but I would query your timings. Good transport links are essential if you want to sell a tin of beans off a shelf in a supermarket (preferably Tesco’s?)but we are selling a little bit more than a consumable product here. We’re selling dreams and aspirations alongside pride, passion and commitment. Let’s not forget the frustration and angst too mind.
People go to support their team, sometimes regardless of how difficult or easy it may be to get there. My trip is relatively easy, only 60 ish miles but the tunnel is a pain, the queues are a pain but so what? For those of us who have the opportunity to go to the games and I regard myself as fortunate that I can afford both the time and the money to attend matches, the travelling there is a side issue. Everton is my team, Everton is my passion, in the end it won’t matter to me whether we move to Kirkby or elsewhere, I will still go to the games. Now, if the club think that we need more of the fair season supporters then I understand the gallop towards a new stadium and why it’s important to move on but please Dave don’t be hasty in thinking that there will be more Evertonian’s turning up at a match just because it takes 10 mins less to get there. On the contrary, for people like Patty and me coming from way over yonder (Wales), it will increase our journey time significantly. Bet you won’t stop Patty and me being at the games though?
Shit football and dishonesty from the club stops me from going (and that’s only when I’m REALLY annoyed), You may not be bothered enough to make that extra effort to get to the game but the rest of us damn well are.
I’m not an expert on Liverpool to Hull but I would query your timings. Good transport links are essential if you want to sell a tin of beans off a shelf in a supermarket (preferably Tesco’s?)but we are selling a little bit more than a consumable product here. We’re selling dreams and aspirations alongside pride, passion and commitment. Let’s not forget the frustration and angst too mind.
People go to support their team, sometimes regardless of how difficult or easy it may be to get there. My trip is relatively easy, only 60 ish miles but the tunnel is a pain, the queues are a pain but so what? For those of us who have the opportunity to go to the games and I regard myself as fortunate that I can afford both the time and the money to attend matches, the travelling there is a side issue. Everton is my team, Everton is my passion, in the end it won’t matter to me whether we move to Kirkby or elsewhere, I will still go to the games. Now, if the club think that we need more of the fair season supporters then I understand the gallop towards a new stadium and why it’s important to move on but please Dave don’t be hasty in thinking that there will be more Evertonian’s turning up at a match just because it takes 10 mins less to get there. On the contrary, for people like Patty and me coming from way over yonder (Wales), it will increase our journey time significantly. Bet you won’t stop Patty and me being at the games though?
Shit football and dishonesty from the club stops me from going (and that’s only when I’m REALLY annoyed), You may not be bothered enough to make that extra effort to get to the game but the rest of us damn well are.
patty blue
27 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:36:53
27 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:36:53
Well said Lue we girls must stick together and keep on supporting our blues. Wouldn’t matter how far I had to go, even on a zimmer frame, to see the lads!!
Dean
28 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:27:02
28 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:27:02
I live in Leeds and goodison takes about 2 hours to get to and 2.5 to get back.
Why don’t I go every week? why don’t I get a season ticket? why don’t I buy every new kit that comes out?
Because I’m sensible and I don’t have the money, simple as that.
If some people are perfectly happy to blindly throw away all their cash every week for some misty eyed sentimentality, then let them because that’s what keeps the club afloat.
comments like "Wouldn?t matter how far I had to go, even on a zimmer frame, to see the lads!!" are completely irrational and not based on logic.
I would liken this issue to the religion vs evolution debate. One is based on logic, the other on faith and in the same way, I think both are intrinsically linked to each other.
We have to stop this "I’m more of an evertonian than you" bullshit. We’re all in it together, and regardless of what you think, each blue is just as important as the other.
Why don’t I go every week? why don’t I get a season ticket? why don’t I buy every new kit that comes out?
Because I’m sensible and I don’t have the money, simple as that.
If some people are perfectly happy to blindly throw away all their cash every week for some misty eyed sentimentality, then let them because that’s what keeps the club afloat.
comments like "Wouldn?t matter how far I had to go, even on a zimmer frame, to see the lads!!" are completely irrational and not based on logic.
I would liken this issue to the religion vs evolution debate. One is based on logic, the other on faith and in the same way, I think both are intrinsically linked to each other.
We have to stop this "I’m more of an evertonian than you" bullshit. We’re all in it together, and regardless of what you think, each blue is just as important as the other.
ronan mcg
29 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:29:34
29 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:29:34
Fitzsy this was obviously a wind-up. No educated man could seriously think local evertonians actually care about other toffees who live further away. The locals will vote no to Kirkby because they want to be able to walk to games and have their little pint. They don’t care about the future of the club; just look at Matt Brown’s comment above, his argument for staying in Goodison and destroying Everton FC is so that he and his mates have time for a drink before the game! These are the type of people you are dealing with, and these are the people that Wyness was insance enough to give a vote to.
Ray Robinson
30 Posted 27/07/2007 at 17:40:31
30 Posted 27/07/2007 at 17:40:31
Tell you what while we’re in the process of moving, why don’t we re-locate to the Midlands to accommodate the Southern blues? That was a joke by the way.
Dave’s original point (which I don’t believe was a wind up) was that easy accessibility to a motorwork network may well encourage some additional far-flung supporters to attend matches.
True enough in some cases. My point in relation to his own circumstances is that I reckon the average fan can get to the M62 from Goodison Park (not going down the drive to the Rocket, by the way) just as fast as anyone leaving Kirkby will be able to on a matchday when we’ve re-located.
So the journey to Hull will be no quicker than it is now.
Dave’s original point (which I don’t believe was a wind up) was that easy accessibility to a motorwork network may well encourage some additional far-flung supporters to attend matches.
True enough in some cases. My point in relation to his own circumstances is that I reckon the average fan can get to the M62 from Goodison Park (not going down the drive to the Rocket, by the way) just as fast as anyone leaving Kirkby will be able to on a matchday when we’ve re-located.
So the journey to Hull will be no quicker than it is now.
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