The Mail Bag
The Bestway?
Comments (67)
The article on NSNO re: meeting between Bestway and KEIOC seems nothing but a red herring. If Bestway/LCC are serious, where are the figures/plans to back them up? Are they going to build EFC a stadium for £10m? Because if they aren't they're on a loser already. What part of 'Everton are skint' don't people understand?
Tommy Gibbons, Posted 26/07/2007 at 23:52:02
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Lyndon
Believe me, both LCC and Bestway are serious, Tommy, but this stuff doesn't come together overnight.
Tony Marsh
1 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:05:07
1 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:05:07
Everton are skint.No Tommy Kenwrights skint Everton have just had the most financially rewarding season ever.Wheres it all gone??? Sky money,League placing money best ever yet and we cant afford to buy a pair of shoe laces.What the fucks going on??
Tom Hughes
2 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:08:47
2 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:08:47
"What part of ’Everton are skint’ don’t people understand?"
I’d say no-one understands this paradox. Because it doesn’t make any sense....Top 20 world footy club rich list, biggest turnover ever, yet can’t build there own stadium or redevelop their current one like 90 odd percent of other clubs? By the way where do you get your £10m figure from, if you listen to Wyness our contribution could end up many times more than that. Answer this though, if investment was to arrive in the near future (and let’s face it clubs are being sold off at a pretty rapid rate), and the Bestway plans developed into a viable option..... would anyone seriously even consider Kirkby? I doubt it very much.
So why do it now? We’re not homeless or at the last chance saloon.....Invest some of that skymoney in the team, see if Davie can push us up a notch or 2, get planning permission for redevelopment and or a better more central site and investors will come knocking. (Thats if you believe they haven’t been already)
I’d say no-one understands this paradox. Because it doesn’t make any sense....Top 20 world footy club rich list, biggest turnover ever, yet can’t build there own stadium or redevelop their current one like 90 odd percent of other clubs? By the way where do you get your £10m figure from, if you listen to Wyness our contribution could end up many times more than that. Answer this though, if investment was to arrive in the near future (and let’s face it clubs are being sold off at a pretty rapid rate), and the Bestway plans developed into a viable option..... would anyone seriously even consider Kirkby? I doubt it very much.
So why do it now? We’re not homeless or at the last chance saloon.....Invest some of that skymoney in the team, see if Davie can push us up a notch or 2, get planning permission for redevelopment and or a better more central site and investors will come knocking. (Thats if you believe they haven’t been already)
Ste Boileau
3 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:58:16
3 Posted 27/07/2007 at 10:58:16
Tom Hughes I couldnt agree with you more
B Bragg
4 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:01:46
4 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:01:46
Everton are not an attractive investment opportunity because you would have to buy the club £40m pay off the debts £40m build a stadium £150 - 200m and all for a company with a £60m turnover. There is no chance of getting a return on yoiur investment given those figures and that is why it won’t happen. Wyness has said our end of the stadium will cost £25m - £35m and if we can get a new stadium for that it is a no brainer of a decision.
Andy C
5 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:02:46
5 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:02:46
Why is everyone so disillusioned??? Wake up - WE DON’T HAVE THE CASH TO BUILD A STADIUM and THERE IS NO INVESTOR WILLING TO WRITE OFF DEBT THEN PAY FOR A NEW STADIUM. Like it or not, we are falling further and further behind not only the ’big 4’, but spurs, newcastle, city and villa. Unless we start generating extra revenue we wont be able to compete, we cant take on more debt - when will people realise that we are in the top 20 for turnover - not profit, our P & L is on a knife edge. I can’t believe this is even a debate - Kirkby is as scouse as it gets - what does a mile over the 19th century boundary matter? Besides LCC have never done anything for us - whats make anyone believe that they will now. It’s crazy and I fear we will pay for not taking this opportunity.
will mitchell
6 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:07:13
6 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:07:13
I don’t think there are many investible football clubs, but there still seem to be willing investors. In fact, I would have thought the potential for a very large property development IN LIVERPOOL could be a coup for Everton in terms of attracting investment. I’ve been a supporter of BK up to now but either he’s not willing to sell or he’s not looking hard enough. If money wasn’t an issue who would you sooner own? Everton or one of those other joke clubs based in retail parks; which is exactly what we’ll become if we move to kirkby.
Max
7 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:11:47
7 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:11:47
I must say I sometimes think obviously half the people on this site have never done a budget in thier lives.
If BK was such a shady character he would have put our ticket prices up to the same level as Tottenham. That means we would all have to pay an extra 15 pounds a ticket and than great he can buy all the players he wants. I think it is amazing that with all the debt we have he has not done that but i truly believe he does have the clubs interests at heart as well all of the supporters.
So moving to Kirby will add some travelling time but lets all think with our brains on not only our hearts. We need a new stadium for various reasons, namely investment and attracting a larger amount of supporters with adding a whole bunch of new facilities.
I know there has been alot of talk of rebuilding our existing stadium but surprisingly it costs more to demolish and start again than just start anew. I would love it if we didn’t move but I think we have to consider the future of the club.
my 2 cents worth
If BK was such a shady character he would have put our ticket prices up to the same level as Tottenham. That means we would all have to pay an extra 15 pounds a ticket and than great he can buy all the players he wants. I think it is amazing that with all the debt we have he has not done that but i truly believe he does have the clubs interests at heart as well all of the supporters.
So moving to Kirby will add some travelling time but lets all think with our brains on not only our hearts. We need a new stadium for various reasons, namely investment and attracting a larger amount of supporters with adding a whole bunch of new facilities.
I know there has been alot of talk of rebuilding our existing stadium but surprisingly it costs more to demolish and start again than just start anew. I would love it if we didn’t move but I think we have to consider the future of the club.
my 2 cents worth
Brian
8 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:18:51
8 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:18:51
"Believe me, both LCC and Bestway are serious, Tommy, but this stuff doesn’t come together overnight".
Overnight, overnight??? FFS how long has the Kirby project been going? and all of a sudden our new best (way) buddies come out of the woodwork with a wooly, eleventh hour announcement that says basically "We think you could fit a footy stadium on the Loop"...
How do you know theyre serious Lyndon, them and the LCC. Come on then let us in on your "inside knowledge", coz if LCC were serious they’d have shifted their arses before now mate, and as for Bestway, how much are they gonna throw in the pot then? Lets see if theyre 40-50 million serious shall we?.
Smacks to me of "We dont want to go to Kirby so we’ll say anything to stop it in it’s tracks."
Overnight, overnight??? FFS how long has the Kirby project been going? and all of a sudden our new best (way) buddies come out of the woodwork with a wooly, eleventh hour announcement that says basically "We think you could fit a footy stadium on the Loop"...
How do you know theyre serious Lyndon, them and the LCC. Come on then let us in on your "inside knowledge", coz if LCC were serious they’d have shifted their arses before now mate, and as for Bestway, how much are they gonna throw in the pot then? Lets see if theyre 40-50 million serious shall we?.
Smacks to me of "We dont want to go to Kirby so we’ll say anything to stop it in it’s tracks."
Andy C
9 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:31:09
9 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:31:09
Agree totally Brian - and people are complaining about how vague the Kirkby proposal is!!!! - utter madness.
Brian Waring
10 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:39:44
10 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:39:44
Brian.I think the Kirkby scenario has been going on for fucking months and months now,and do you know what?And there is still plenty of confusion.
Brian
11 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:53:09
11 Posted 27/07/2007 at 11:53:09
I’ll be perfectly honest with you. I dont particularly want to move to Kirby.
I want something miraculous to happen. I want a new investor to appear as if by magic and wipe away all the debt and put in a couple of hundred million pounds in order to instantly put us back where we once were, but right in the heart of Liverpool....Is that going to happen?? Is it? be honest.
Soooo what are my choices? Lets see, I can bury my head in the sand, remember the 80’s, and ignore any other possibilities that anybody comes up with.
Or!! I can settle (yes settle) for the nearest I’m likely to get to my dream which would still represent progress. Not the progress I’d wished for..but then wishes dont always come true.
IMHO life is all about making the best of whatever opportunities that exist, about making decisions on the options available to me and not ignoring ones that may arise simply because it doesn’t fit in with my dream.
All I would say is that people should make their minds up on the choices we HAVE, not the choices we wish we had.
I want something miraculous to happen. I want a new investor to appear as if by magic and wipe away all the debt and put in a couple of hundred million pounds in order to instantly put us back where we once were, but right in the heart of Liverpool....Is that going to happen?? Is it? be honest.
Soooo what are my choices? Lets see, I can bury my head in the sand, remember the 80’s, and ignore any other possibilities that anybody comes up with.
Or!! I can settle (yes settle) for the nearest I’m likely to get to my dream which would still represent progress. Not the progress I’d wished for..but then wishes dont always come true.
IMHO life is all about making the best of whatever opportunities that exist, about making decisions on the options available to me and not ignoring ones that may arise simply because it doesn’t fit in with my dream.
All I would say is that people should make their minds up on the choices we HAVE, not the choices we wish we had.
will mitchell
12 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:09:16
12 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:09:16
progress?
You call surrendering the City of Liverpool to the Kopites progress?Two Yanks are about to build a 75,000 seater on the Dixie Dean playing fields and we’re off to fucking kirkby with Tescos!
You know how those bastards will call it: there’s only one team in liverpool with tow others based in kirkby and the wirral.
Over my dead fucking body.
You call surrendering the City of Liverpool to the Kopites progress?Two Yanks are about to build a 75,000 seater on the Dixie Dean playing fields and we’re off to fucking kirkby with Tescos!
You know how those bastards will call it: there’s only one team in liverpool with tow others based in kirkby and the wirral.
Over my dead fucking body.
Bob Turner
13 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:00:41
13 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:00:41
Tom, the rich list is misleading, because all it does is measure turnover, it doesn’t show how profitable a club is. If Everton’s costs are greater than its turnover, it doesn’t matter if our turnover is the best in the world, we’re losing money.
Incidentally, whereas we were 18th in the world in February 2006 (with a turnover of £60m), in the most recent list published, in February 2007, we don’t rate a mention in the top 20. As it happens, our turnover according to Everton’s accounts was £58m, so we obviously didn’t drop too far.
Not knowing what the revenue split was for the 2005/06 (because we’re not in the Deloittes rich list report), I can only go by the broadcasting receipts from the previous year, which were £29.5m. Our staff costs for the financial year ended May 2006 were £37m. It also cost the club over £11m in writing down the values of the players’ registrations (basically, their transfer fee is written off over the length of their contract). So in answer to your question, Tony, where’s the Sky money gone, here’s your answer!
There are no financial shenanigans going on, no dipping into the till, we just don’t make enough money to pay our players’ wages, operate the club, and buy every half decent player going for £5m just because people on here say we should!!
I think people need to base their opinions on facts, rather than innuendo and supposition. Just look at Everton’s published accounts if you want to know how much money we have, and where it comes from!
Incidentally, whereas we were 18th in the world in February 2006 (with a turnover of £60m), in the most recent list published, in February 2007, we don’t rate a mention in the top 20. As it happens, our turnover according to Everton’s accounts was £58m, so we obviously didn’t drop too far.
Not knowing what the revenue split was for the 2005/06 (because we’re not in the Deloittes rich list report), I can only go by the broadcasting receipts from the previous year, which were £29.5m. Our staff costs for the financial year ended May 2006 were £37m. It also cost the club over £11m in writing down the values of the players’ registrations (basically, their transfer fee is written off over the length of their contract). So in answer to your question, Tony, where’s the Sky money gone, here’s your answer!
There are no financial shenanigans going on, no dipping into the till, we just don’t make enough money to pay our players’ wages, operate the club, and buy every half decent player going for £5m just because people on here say we should!!
I think people need to base their opinions on facts, rather than innuendo and supposition. Just look at Everton’s published accounts if you want to know how much money we have, and where it comes from!
Andy C
14 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:21:47
14 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:21:47
Will, thats the problem with Evertonians - too bothered about what the shite are up to. I dont give a fuck what they say - i dont listen anyway. Kirkby will provide the quickest and easiest way for us to generate more cash to buy more players. Its simple - I only give a fuck about what happens for 90mins on the pitch - nothing else.
Brian
15 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:30:29
15 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:30:29
Will Mitchell "progress?
You call surrendering the City of Liverpool to the Kopites progress?Two Yanks are about to build a 75,000 seater on the Dixie Dean playing fields and we?re off to fucking kirkby with Tescos!
You know how those bastards will call it: there?s only one team in liverpool with tow others based in kirkby and the wirral.
Over my dead fucking body".
..then just carry on dreamin’ mate, ignore reality. I’m sure it’ll all go away and everything will be wonderful.
You call surrendering the City of Liverpool to the Kopites progress?Two Yanks are about to build a 75,000 seater on the Dixie Dean playing fields and we?re off to fucking kirkby with Tescos!
You know how those bastards will call it: there?s only one team in liverpool with tow others based in kirkby and the wirral.
Over my dead fucking body".
..then just carry on dreamin’ mate, ignore reality. I’m sure it’ll all go away and everything will be wonderful.
will mitchell
16 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:46:00
16 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:46:00
Brian, if your ’reality’ is a hinterland Tesco Extra with a ground attached, then you’re welcome to it.
Andy C
17 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:08:28
17 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:08:28
Whats your ’reality’ Will? A crumbling stadium?, struggling to buy players? unable to pay wages? struggling to compete in the premiership? - at least we will still be inside an imaginary line hey!!!!! - fucking get real mate.
Brian
18 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:55:11
18 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:55:11
Honestly mate (Will) I want the same as you, I truly do..and nobody would be happier than me to see the RS’s dreams blow up (literally) in their faces..but our hatred of them isn’t going to change anything for us is it?
I love Goodison I really do. I love me mam too...but one day she’s gonna die, fact.
It’s about facing reality or denying it.
Will staying at Goodision increase revenue and allow us to buy better players and compete at a higher level? NO!
Will moving to Kirby increase revenue and allow us to buy better players and compete at a higher level? MAYBE!
Will hoping something better comes along that answers all our prayers allow us to buy better players and compete at a higher level...ONLY IF IT HAPPENS!
But ask yourself mate(honestly) is it going to happen? Convince me PLEASE !!!!
I love Goodison I really do. I love me mam too...but one day she’s gonna die, fact.
It’s about facing reality or denying it.
Will staying at Goodision increase revenue and allow us to buy better players and compete at a higher level? NO!
Will moving to Kirby increase revenue and allow us to buy better players and compete at a higher level? MAYBE!
Will hoping something better comes along that answers all our prayers allow us to buy better players and compete at a higher level...ONLY IF IT HAPPENS!
But ask yourself mate(honestly) is it going to happen? Convince me PLEASE !!!!
Roy coyne
19 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:50:05
19 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:50:05
So Andy your only bothered about whats on the pitch.Well without the heritage you are not even prepared to listen about you would not have a team to watch and any benefits from this move would be short term forget our heritage ect just ask yourself do you think we will fill corporate boxes in Kirkby when there are others available nearer in a major city,and do you think we can fill a 55000 capacity stadium in kirkby if so could you tell me how.Once the novelty wears off those new fans will revert to type and not go lets use this catchment argument if there our supporters out there that don’t go why? its only 4.5 miles or so for them to go to goodison Also lets be honest if you were not an Evertonian would you be attracted to watch us when there are more entertaining teams to travel to the only way we will attract fans is by winning and playing attractive football and we are not going to be able to do that because simply Bill has not got that sort of money if he had we would own our training ground and not sold off every thing that’s not tied down
Tom Hughes
20 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:54:19
20 Posted 27/07/2007 at 12:54:19
The reason Bestway haven’t come forward before is that it took an Evertonian Architect (not me) to tell Everton FC and then much later the council that Bestway’s amongst several others is an ideal site for a new home for our club. Everton have had this information for 6 months have they ever mentioned it to the club or enquired about it to the council....? The answer is NO! Period of exclusivity is over now, so why haven’t they put a study together? I asked a simple question really: would you pick Everton or Kirkby as locations? In a similar poll I doubt kirkby would make 5%. I am not taking about costs....You have no idea what the cost of kirkby is because even KW hasn’t so how could you? If it is £25-35m as mentioned above, that could build a much bigger Park end, get rid of most of the obstructed views on the mainstand side and perhaps re-roof the Bullens to get rid of obstructions in its upper tier. 50,000 seats at our current home....So why risk relocation at all? Or god forbid, it could be used to improve the team substantially, at this time when we’re doing well but are a bit threadbare. Everton not being saleable/investable because of Goodison is also a joke surely? Please remember, Liverpool couldn’t afford to build their own stadium. It has cost significantly more to buy them and build their new stadium than it would be for similar to happen to Everton. MOST other clubs have defied the budgetry logic some are applying here, to do precisely what the pro-kirkby people are saying is not possible. MOST of these have been smaller clubs than us..... are they all making massive profits?The Bestway option would be a prestigious development on the back of Europe’s biggest city centre redevelopment..... it also opens up options of connection with project Jennifer further North, a link that would be desirable for city planners..... not to mention some of the massive investment opportunities that may arise from our more central location. Another similar comparison, would anyone vote kirkby ahead of Kings Dock? (again, you would be lucky to get a few percent). This would be similar. I’m not discounting what can be done at GP either, but Kirkby would be way down my wish list. pretend freeby or not!!
will mitchell
21 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:29:42
21 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:29:42
1. GP is not ’crumbling’. It can easily be refurbished and a larger Park End stand built to increase capacity.
2. I think it’s optimistic in the extreme to think that the Kirkby stadium will generate anything like the revenues required to compete with the top 4 in the transfer market. For that we need a very rich investor willing to spend. The increased capacity / corporate hospitality / increased revenue stream arguments are flawed. As Tom and Tony said earlier: where’s all the TV and PL money gone?
3. Given all the uncertainties regarding the finances, the potential effect on our fan base and of course all the cultural aspects: our primordial ties with the City of Liverpool in particular; you’re still willing to support a move to a soulless retail park?
It’s insanity! We might as well commit mass suicide. Everton will not BE any more in Kirkby.
2. I think it’s optimistic in the extreme to think that the Kirkby stadium will generate anything like the revenues required to compete with the top 4 in the transfer market. For that we need a very rich investor willing to spend. The increased capacity / corporate hospitality / increased revenue stream arguments are flawed. As Tom and Tony said earlier: where’s all the TV and PL money gone?
3. Given all the uncertainties regarding the finances, the potential effect on our fan base and of course all the cultural aspects: our primordial ties with the City of Liverpool in particular; you’re still willing to support a move to a soulless retail park?
It’s insanity! We might as well commit mass suicide. Everton will not BE any more in Kirkby.
Neil Pearse
22 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:23:07
22 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:23:07
Okay, let’s take this slowly.
We need a new football stadium. Without it we are in terminal decline.
We cannot afford to buy one on our own, or attract investors willing to write off all our debts and build one for us.
We have found some people (Tescos, Knowlsley Council) who will basically build us a new stadium four miles from our current stadium. It’s all agreed, all costed. It would be public suicide for such as Sir Terry Leahy to put his name behind this and then fuck up.
At the very very last minute, the LCC (no help so far) and Bestway (who the fuck?) have come up with an uncosted and undesigned proposal on a rather small looking site.
Some of you want to abandon the Tescos / Knowsley option for LCC / Bestway.
Are you stark raving bonkers?
We need a new football stadium. Without it we are in terminal decline.
We cannot afford to buy one on our own, or attract investors willing to write off all our debts and build one for us.
We have found some people (Tescos, Knowlsley Council) who will basically build us a new stadium four miles from our current stadium. It’s all agreed, all costed. It would be public suicide for such as Sir Terry Leahy to put his name behind this and then fuck up.
At the very very last minute, the LCC (no help so far) and Bestway (who the fuck?) have come up with an uncosted and undesigned proposal on a rather small looking site.
Some of you want to abandon the Tescos / Knowsley option for LCC / Bestway.
Are you stark raving bonkers?
vin bleu
23 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:20:38
23 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:20:38
You will not convince them Brian. They are in denial, burying their heads in the sand, etc, etc. Despite making many mistakes, EFC have always treated their fans well. Tickets have always been amongst the cheapest. We must be the only club to have a ballot on relocation. The ballot question is clear and precise. The result is binding for a majority. It’s being organised by the electoral reform society. Under 18s with season tickets are eligible. Does all that smack of evil deeds and conspiracies? I suggest these guys not only have EFC’s concerns at heart but also entrust their investment to the fans. Where else is that happening in these days of raw commercialism? Give them a break and show some trust. You may disagree with them but I still think respect is due. Their opinion , expertise and judgement should be taken into consideration. As someone else said - "who appointed David Moyes?"
Bob Turner
24 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:43:45
24 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:43:45
Will, I think I showed you where all the TV/PL money has gone - it’s called operating the club!!! Look at the accounts, ffs! We spent £48m of our £58m turnover, from our most recently published accounts, on players costs! Factor in the operating costs of £16m (football clubs don’t run themselves, you know!), and THAT IS WHERE THE MONEY HAS GONE!!!
As I suggested on another thread, if someone was to offer us a new stadium in Liverpool for £30m, we’d be biting their hands off! But they’re not!!
Incidentally, people who keeping taking the piss out of Tesco, with their "Tesco value" comments, it might interest you to know that their turnover last year was £42.6 billion. Bestway - £1.7 billion. Neil, spot on with your comments!
As I suggested on another thread, if someone was to offer us a new stadium in Liverpool for £30m, we’d be biting their hands off! But they’re not!!
Incidentally, people who keeping taking the piss out of Tesco, with their "Tesco value" comments, it might interest you to know that their turnover last year was £42.6 billion. Bestway - £1.7 billion. Neil, spot on with your comments!
will mitchell
25 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:03:47
25 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:03:47
Is this the same Tesco that pays its Bangladeshi labourers 4p an hour for an 80 hour week?
NSNO.
NSNO.
Andy C
26 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:46:41
26 Posted 27/07/2007 at 13:46:41
Will, GP is definately crumbling - how many other premiership grounds have you been to? - I’m sorry to say that GP doesn’t stack up to over 75% of them.
How can you refurbish GP? I agree Park end can be done - but the other 3 sides are not self supporting they need central pillars to keep them up - they would have to be demolished, and the cost whilst this takes place would be far more than 25-30m - as all 3 sides would need to be restructured. Staying at GP is just not an option.
Do you not understand that EFC are generating revenuse to break even. WE DONT MAKE A PROFIT - the sky PL money goes on wages, servicing debt etc.
Bigger and better facilities does generate more revenue - its simple economics lads - Fulham generate more match day revenue than we do - now how the hell does that happen? - believe me its not through the real fans. EFC need to have the capacity and facilities to attract corporate fans. We will all miss GP - the Oak, the Spellow, the Church etc - but we have to move on. I agree we need more investment - and for that we need to make ourselves more attractive. The more revenue we generate on a cyclical basis - the more attractive we become.
Let me ask you this - if this development was in Speke would you be for it???
How can you refurbish GP? I agree Park end can be done - but the other 3 sides are not self supporting they need central pillars to keep them up - they would have to be demolished, and the cost whilst this takes place would be far more than 25-30m - as all 3 sides would need to be restructured. Staying at GP is just not an option.
Do you not understand that EFC are generating revenuse to break even. WE DONT MAKE A PROFIT - the sky PL money goes on wages, servicing debt etc.
Bigger and better facilities does generate more revenue - its simple economics lads - Fulham generate more match day revenue than we do - now how the hell does that happen? - believe me its not through the real fans. EFC need to have the capacity and facilities to attract corporate fans. We will all miss GP - the Oak, the Spellow, the Church etc - but we have to move on. I agree we need more investment - and for that we need to make ourselves more attractive. The more revenue we generate on a cyclical basis - the more attractive we become.
Let me ask you this - if this development was in Speke would you be for it???
Bob Turner
27 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:10:42
27 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:10:42
Will, if you’ve got a bleeding heart about exploitation of third world workers, you’re on the wrong site - try http://www.cofe.anglican.org/, they’ll probably sort you out with a direct debit form, or maybe even a pilgrimage (after all, you won’t be going to Kirkby if we move, will you??). I’m more interested in Everton FC, myself.
Andy C
28 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:16:33
28 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:16:33
Agreed Bob
will mitchell
29 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:08:09
29 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:08:09
Andy, I don’t agree with you on GP. Despite its age I think it’s still one of the best grounds in the country. I don’t go to the match to have a shit in a comfortable cubicle and I’m not arsed whether there’s a queue for pies.
I wouldn’t support a move to Speke because I think we belong in inner-city Liverpool.
Fulham have a wealthy catchment area that could only be replicated on Merseyside in Central Liverpool.
If you and Bob are correct on the finances I would still say that the Kirkby ground won’t siginificantly increase revenue enough to justify leaving GP. Regards, Will.
I wouldn’t support a move to Speke because I think we belong in inner-city Liverpool.
Fulham have a wealthy catchment area that could only be replicated on Merseyside in Central Liverpool.
If you and Bob are correct on the finances I would still say that the Kirkby ground won’t siginificantly increase revenue enough to justify leaving GP. Regards, Will.
will mitchell
30 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:18:46
30 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:18:46
I think it’s very unfortunate and misguided that you (Andy & Bob) are not concerned with the ethics of a potential major business partner for our club.
Bob Turner
31 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:22:34
31 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:22:34
Jesus, if we were going to vet the ethics of every investor willing to contribute to the financial well-being of Everton FC, we’d be there all day.
Do you have an Everton replica shirt, Will? Wondered whether the people who made it are well paid? Thought not.
So now you want Everton to be an ethical co-operative, with a low carbon footprint, buying its milk from local farmers, and redistributing its wealth (if we had any!) to the third world?? Get real, this is none of our business as Evertonians!
Do you have an Everton replica shirt, Will? Wondered whether the people who made it are well paid? Thought not.
So now you want Everton to be an ethical co-operative, with a low carbon footprint, buying its milk from local farmers, and redistributing its wealth (if we had any!) to the third world?? Get real, this is none of our business as Evertonians!
Andy C
32 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:26:54
32 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:26:54
Unfortunately Will, people now expect better facilities from a stadium. Toilets and refreshments are important parts of public space - surely you can see that.
Demographically we are still in the same catchment area Kirkby, Liverpool or Speke - Merseyside is classed as one region Will, why dont you understand this?
With regards Tescos corporate sustainability policies - this is a debate about Everton moving, and has no relevance - if we start down that road - any corporate partner we talk to will have issues - come on mate keep the debate grounded - forgive the pun.
Demographically we are still in the same catchment area Kirkby, Liverpool or Speke - Merseyside is classed as one region Will, why dont you understand this?
With regards Tescos corporate sustainability policies - this is a debate about Everton moving, and has no relevance - if we start down that road - any corporate partner we talk to will have issues - come on mate keep the debate grounded - forgive the pun.
will mitchell
33 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:32:59
33 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:32:59
No Bob, I don’t wear replica shirts. And I wouldn’t want to see an Abramovich type figure in charge at Everton, or an association with Tescos. Ethical considerations are not anathema to business, investment or our football club.
Bob Turner
34 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:39:50
34 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:39:50
I agree that there is no reason why ethics can’t have their place, but don’t you think we do enough as a club with Everton in the Community, the Disabled Supporters’ Association, Everton Against Racism, the former players’ foundation, etc etc. To require every investor in the club to be pure as the driven snow is unrealistic, sorry.
Tony Marsh
35 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:38:47
35 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:38:47
One of the many thing I have learned from logging on to TW is how stupid and easily fooled some Everton Fans really are.Take Andy C for example. He says we have to move to Kirkby to generate extra revenue.Hows that then?
Whos going to fill the boxes then matey because the buisness world wont want to know.Just because KW and BK spin this bullshit doesnt mean its going to happen.
I predict our fanbase will fall away with in 12 months with a lot of fans being so disgusted and angered by it all the will jack it in Myself included and I know many more.
This mythical revenue stream will not materialise because there is no one to fund it.50 new boxes or 100 new boxes wont mean fuck all if they are empty.Get this through your thick skull.
Rich corporate types will not want to take clients or guests out to retail park in Kirkby to look at Carpet World and BnQ when
some time that week there will be games at the New Anfield.
FFS how hard is that to grasp.
Whos going to fill the boxes then matey because the buisness world wont want to know.Just because KW and BK spin this bullshit doesnt mean its going to happen.
I predict our fanbase will fall away with in 12 months with a lot of fans being so disgusted and angered by it all the will jack it in Myself included and I know many more.
This mythical revenue stream will not materialise because there is no one to fund it.50 new boxes or 100 new boxes wont mean fuck all if they are empty.Get this through your thick skull.
Rich corporate types will not want to take clients or guests out to retail park in Kirkby to look at Carpet World and BnQ when
some time that week there will be games at the New Anfield.
FFS how hard is that to grasp.
Brian
36 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:59:34
36 Posted 27/07/2007 at 14:59:34
Will ! Remove that tongue from your cheek this minute...put on your non leather shoes, and your ethically grown cotton shirt, and amble down to the local deli for some ethically reared chicken, on some bread made from wheat that’s been lovingly tended by fair maidens....wearing no make up of course.......in Kirby !!!
Brian
37 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:04:32
37 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:04:32
Sorry and all that Tony (Marsh) but you’re errr...... full of shit!
There, thats my opinion and working on your principles that means it must be true mustn’t it ?
And if you’re gonna jack it in if we move that says more about you than all your posts mate.
There, thats my opinion and working on your principles that means it must be true mustn’t it ?
And if you’re gonna jack it in if we move that says more about you than all your posts mate.
Andy C
38 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:04:55
38 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:04:55
Tony, obviously a great Evertonian if you’re prepared to jack it in.
Have you been to United recently? In the middle of a retail and commerical park - miles from the centre of Manchester - yet fills corporate boxes every week.
Mate, KW and BK don’t pull the spin on me - i rely on facts and financial accounts based on case studies of other stadium moves.
Have you been to United recently? In the middle of a retail and commerical park - miles from the centre of Manchester - yet fills corporate boxes every week.
Mate, KW and BK don’t pull the spin on me - i rely on facts and financial accounts based on case studies of other stadium moves.
Tony Marsh
39 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:18:17
39 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:18:17
Yes and Man Utd are the biggest club in the world last time I looked.Old Trafford is a short distance from Manchester city center and all the facilities it has to offer.Wheres Kirkby again
some where between Skem and St.Helens????. Yes very good comparision you make Andy.Keep working on those studies mate.Your last one is miles out
some where between Skem and St.Helens????. Yes very good comparision you make Andy.Keep working on those studies mate.Your last one is miles out
Steve Claringbold
40 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:18:28
40 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:18:28
Tony,
If you’d jack the club in for whatever reason then we don’t fucking want you mate.
If you’d jack the club in for whatever reason then we don’t fucking want you mate.
Andy C
41 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:31:39
41 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:31:39
Tony - you just dont get it do you? Absolute fuckwit
Neil Pearse
42 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:29:42
42 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:29:42
Tony, like many others I regularly travel up from London to see Everton, leaving at 7 in the morning and getting back at 10 at night.
I’m hardly likely to stop doing this because Everton have moved four miles, am I?
You really think most Evertonians in Liverpool are like you and are going to jack it in because it takes them maybe half an hour longer?
You don’t think what you call "very rich types" aren’t driven to and from grounds in chauffeur driven limos, and hardly notice where exactly the ground is? So you think the extra four miles to Kirkby is going to stop them too?
Most Everton fans would go to see them almost wherever they played. The rest will be more swayed by whether the team is doing well and has stars like Arteta and Johnson to watch.
And if all it comes down to is bragging rights over the RS - then let me tell you, if we beat them 3-0 again when we are in Kirkby, then our ground could be on the bloody moon.
Sorry, Tony, but your arguments are all crap.
I’m hardly likely to stop doing this because Everton have moved four miles, am I?
You really think most Evertonians in Liverpool are like you and are going to jack it in because it takes them maybe half an hour longer?
You don’t think what you call "very rich types" aren’t driven to and from grounds in chauffeur driven limos, and hardly notice where exactly the ground is? So you think the extra four miles to Kirkby is going to stop them too?
Most Everton fans would go to see them almost wherever they played. The rest will be more swayed by whether the team is doing well and has stars like Arteta and Johnson to watch.
And if all it comes down to is bragging rights over the RS - then let me tell you, if we beat them 3-0 again when we are in Kirkby, then our ground could be on the bloody moon.
Sorry, Tony, but your arguments are all crap.
Tony Marsh
43 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:34:13
43 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:34:13
Steve I would not be jacking the club in I would be making a stand against Kenwright and Wyness.You might be a weakling who gives in when bullied but I am not.You let BK and KW walk all over you if you like not me.I have been paying £4k a season to watch Everton for years now and I dont intend wasting that kind of money
on a wank of an idea out in Kirkby.Sometime you have to have
make a stand when enough is enough.this is it for me
on a wank of an idea out in Kirkby.Sometime you have to have
make a stand when enough is enough.this is it for me
Bob Turner
44 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:34:06
44 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:34:06
Tony, as you may well have read elsewhere in the Daily Post (sorry, that should be Pravda), the result of the vote will be binding. Therefore, it will be the will of the supporters (funny, the definition of that word means someone who supports their team) if we move or not. And you’re the stupid one if you think that your skills of persuasion (yeah, I had to laugh as I typed that!) are going to convince anyone who’s stuck between "yes" and "no". I can just see you now, campaigning for a "no" vote outside the ground, loudhailer in hand, "vote no, or you’re thick!". How about you get this through your thick skull - if more Evertonians vote yes than no, we’re moving, because it is what the majority of Evertonians want, not because it’s what BK/KW want.
I’ll spare a thought for you on Saturday afternoons while I’m at the ground, and you’re getting your groceries in (I hear they do a nice range of value products at Tesco...)
I’ll spare a thought for you on Saturday afternoons while I’m at the ground, and you’re getting your groceries in (I hear they do a nice range of value products at Tesco...)
Steve Claringbold
45 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:41:46
45 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:41:46
Tony
With all your misinformation you could keep farmers in manure for years.
You claim to know more about this club and it’s adminstration than everyone else where in truth you know jack shit, You know only as much as the rest of us.
All in all you have an opinion like everyone else that’s it.
It’s like you don’t want this club to succeed or something, I suppose if we were doing well and generating loads of money you’d have nothing to moan about. If you feel you have to be negative about everything there’s plenty of shit clubs you can support.
Make your stand if you want but I’ll guarantee you’ll be one of a small number and you won’t be missed.
With all your misinformation you could keep farmers in manure for years.
You claim to know more about this club and it’s adminstration than everyone else where in truth you know jack shit, You know only as much as the rest of us.
All in all you have an opinion like everyone else that’s it.
It’s like you don’t want this club to succeed or something, I suppose if we were doing well and generating loads of money you’d have nothing to moan about. If you feel you have to be negative about everything there’s plenty of shit clubs you can support.
Make your stand if you want but I’ll guarantee you’ll be one of a small number and you won’t be missed.
Gavin Ramejkis
46 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:41:18
46 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:41:18
Corporates follow successful teams that win leagues and cups, if we haven’t got a pot to piss in now and can barely pay the players wages as so eloquently argued earlier in the thread, how does increasing the club debt (no chance is this free and the ever changing figures given by KW are bollocks) will we get better players to stand a chance of competing with the top four who perpetually win the league and cups? It’s a catch 22 situation and I don’t have the answer but am against Kirkby as it feels terribly wrong.
Tony Marsh
47 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:53:48
47 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:53:48
Niel Pearse another one crediting me with things I never said.I have never mentioned the distance from Goodison to Kirkby as one of my objections to the move.Distance is irrelevant lad.
4 miles or 40 isnt the issue.We are leaving a booming vibrant city to go to an industrial dustbowl.How is that good FFS.
How much more of this clubs history and heritage are you willing to sacrafice just to keep that snake Kenwright at the helm
because thats what its about.
How about a change of colour for the kit is that ok?What about a new nickname while we are at it
something like the Tesco Blues would be nice.What does it matter in the end you lot can still pretend its Everton cant you.
Well once we leave the city we can no longer claim to representing it can we.That will be left to LFC and they will love it.Thier fans are already saying now that there is no Derby game any more as far as they are concerned.They dont have a city rival.Wigan is our Derby they say.
None of this effects you though niel because like you say you dont live here.So please FFS dont make snide comments on things you know nothing about.Travelling 250 miles doesnt make you an Evertonian its in the blood.
I have had to live and breath this shit all my life and now its being taken away.A small time outfit in Kirby is what you will be watching mate not my Everton.
Bob Turner take note.
4 miles or 40 isnt the issue.We are leaving a booming vibrant city to go to an industrial dustbowl.How is that good FFS.
How much more of this clubs history and heritage are you willing to sacrafice just to keep that snake Kenwright at the helm
because thats what its about.
How about a change of colour for the kit is that ok?What about a new nickname while we are at it
something like the Tesco Blues would be nice.What does it matter in the end you lot can still pretend its Everton cant you.
Well once we leave the city we can no longer claim to representing it can we.That will be left to LFC and they will love it.Thier fans are already saying now that there is no Derby game any more as far as they are concerned.They dont have a city rival.Wigan is our Derby they say.
None of this effects you though niel because like you say you dont live here.So please FFS dont make snide comments on things you know nothing about.Travelling 250 miles doesnt make you an Evertonian its in the blood.
I have had to live and breath this shit all my life and now its being taken away.A small time outfit in Kirby is what you will be watching mate not my Everton.
Bob Turner take note.
Andy C
48 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:14:24
48 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:14:24
Tony, you’ve convinced me with your well constructed arguement. The next time a rival fan accuses Evertonians of being stuck in the 80’s - I’ll smile smugly, safe in the knowledge that we have you you representing the club. Fantastic stuff.
Steve Claringbold
49 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:18:36
49 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:18:36
Tony, you say that because Neil travels 250 miles that does not make him an Evertonian.
That is exactly the kind of comment that makes me know for a fact that you talk shite.
An Everton supporter is an Everton supporter regardless of their geographical location, I was born in Walton but live in Carlisle does that make me any less of a supporter?
If you choose to leave the club cause it moves to Kirkby then that doesn’t make you a supporter anymore, but Neil, who will be travelling 254 miles to games will be a supporter. Do you understand now?
That is exactly the kind of comment that makes me know for a fact that you talk shite.
An Everton supporter is an Everton supporter regardless of their geographical location, I was born in Walton but live in Carlisle does that make me any less of a supporter?
If you choose to leave the club cause it moves to Kirkby then that doesn’t make you a supporter anymore, but Neil, who will be travelling 254 miles to games will be a supporter. Do you understand now?
Bob Turner
50 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:13:52
50 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:13:52
Sorry to disillusion you, prophet Tony, but I stopped taking note of what you typed at the word "Niel" (the first time you misspelt it, not the second). Then I saw my name, so I had to read through your diatribe to see what I was supposed to be taking note of.
I thought we were moving to Kirkby so that Kenwright could line his pockets with gold, isn’t that the general opinion?? So how is moving to Kirkby being done to keep him at the helm, ffs??
You’re talking about the future as if you personally know exactly what is going to happen (you never did give me those 6 lottery numbers I asked you for yesterday!). You don’t know what is going to happen, and I don’t give much credence to your opinions either.
It’s not your Everton, it’s our Everton, and we’re not all going to do what you say, we’re moving or not depending upon the majority - or did you not get that??
And I’m not going to get into an argument about who’s supported Everton the longest, or where I come from, as if that matters anyway!
I love my (sorry, OUR!) football club, and will watch them play wherever.
I thought we were moving to Kirkby so that Kenwright could line his pockets with gold, isn’t that the general opinion?? So how is moving to Kirkby being done to keep him at the helm, ffs??
You’re talking about the future as if you personally know exactly what is going to happen (you never did give me those 6 lottery numbers I asked you for yesterday!). You don’t know what is going to happen, and I don’t give much credence to your opinions either.
It’s not your Everton, it’s our Everton, and we’re not all going to do what you say, we’re moving or not depending upon the majority - or did you not get that??
And I’m not going to get into an argument about who’s supported Everton the longest, or where I come from, as if that matters anyway!
I love my (sorry, OUR!) football club, and will watch them play wherever.
Jon Welsh
51 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:26:34
51 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:26:34
Guys, you all obviously mean well but that’s the problem with us blues, we always self-destruct when we have decisions to be made. My mate couldn’t have put it any better when he said we are a club, not a postcode. If you think the kirby option will provide a viable long term business option, vote yes. If you believe we should wait and explore the options that LCC etc come up with, vote no. Please do not base a vote upon what the rs might think-who cares?!
Tony Marsh
52 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:23:50
52 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:23:50
Yes Bob your right Wyness and Kenwright wouldnt dream of pulling the wool over the eyes of the supporters would they.This vote will decide it all mate.I admire a man like you who is so<>willing to trust his fellow manthat he will not allow his judgement to be clouded by silly thing like lies and disception.
>We have had it all in the past from this current board but Hey Bob trust,s em so it must be on the level. Dream on Bob. BK and his joker KW would sell thier mothers if they had to.Vote or no vote I dont trust the custodians of our club.How hard is that for you to grasp.I am going on past history as well here I aint making it up.They dont fly straight Bobby Boy and if you cant see that then whats the point in debating it with you?
>We have had it all in the past from this current board but Hey Bob trust,s em so it must be on the level. Dream on Bob. BK and his joker KW would sell thier mothers if they had to.Vote or no vote I dont trust the custodians of our club.How hard is that for you to grasp.I am going on past history as well here I aint making it up.They dont fly straight Bobby Boy and if you cant see that then whats the point in debating it with you?
Jake Stevens
53 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:35:37
53 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:35:37
Sorry I dont understand. All of our earnings are being spent on players wages and the club running costs.
hmmm, well considering we have one of the smallest squads in the premiership how could this be true? Moyes is not a man who likes to pay inflated wages and bar Beatts and Andy VDM our player wages are relatively low.
Could someone please help me on this one. Maybe im a bit slow....
hmmm, well considering we have one of the smallest squads in the premiership how could this be true? Moyes is not a man who likes to pay inflated wages and bar Beatts and Andy VDM our player wages are relatively low.
Could someone please help me on this one. Maybe im a bit slow....
Bob Turner
54 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:38:14
54 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:38:14
It is quite easy to grasp that you don’t trust BK/KW, I think your opinions on that are quite clear.
At the end of the day, we’re having a democratic vote, (unless you think the Electoral Reform Society are in on the plan, too??), and then, if and only if, BK/KW ignore a "no" vote, and decide to move anyway, I will no longer trust them.
"It will be too late then", I hear you cry. Yes, but in which case, they were obviously always going to go to Kirkby anyway, in which case, all this wear and tear on our keyboards has been in vain.
And, to be honest, I think it will be against their interests to lose such an amount of goodwill with their fans by dragging us to Kirkby against our will, particularly after such promises to the contrary. I think they’d lose a lot more fans that way, which would mean BK’s investment would reduce in value - and that’s all he’s interested in, isn’t it??
Tony, there’s a middle ground between your views and those who’d blindly follow everything they’re told, and I think I’m in it. I don’t want to leave Liverpool, and given a choice, I’d stay. But where’s the choice? Where are we going to get a stadium this cheap? We don’t have the money to fund it ourselves. I trust BK/KW more than I trust LCC/Bestway (who?)/other unnamed (non-existent?) investors.
And if you stay away out of principle if we move to Kirkby, who’s going to suffer? Everton FC because they no longer get your support. And, I’d hazard a guess, that you’d suffer, too. I’ve missed a couple of home games over the years for whatever reason, and it doesn’t feel right, not going to the game. I hope that when the time comes, you feel the same, because we need all the supporters we can get.
At the end of the day, we’re having a democratic vote, (unless you think the Electoral Reform Society are in on the plan, too??), and then, if and only if, BK/KW ignore a "no" vote, and decide to move anyway, I will no longer trust them.
"It will be too late then", I hear you cry. Yes, but in which case, they were obviously always going to go to Kirkby anyway, in which case, all this wear and tear on our keyboards has been in vain.
And, to be honest, I think it will be against their interests to lose such an amount of goodwill with their fans by dragging us to Kirkby against our will, particularly after such promises to the contrary. I think they’d lose a lot more fans that way, which would mean BK’s investment would reduce in value - and that’s all he’s interested in, isn’t it??
Tony, there’s a middle ground between your views and those who’d blindly follow everything they’re told, and I think I’m in it. I don’t want to leave Liverpool, and given a choice, I’d stay. But where’s the choice? Where are we going to get a stadium this cheap? We don’t have the money to fund it ourselves. I trust BK/KW more than I trust LCC/Bestway (who?)/other unnamed (non-existent?) investors.
And if you stay away out of principle if we move to Kirkby, who’s going to suffer? Everton FC because they no longer get your support. And, I’d hazard a guess, that you’d suffer, too. I’ve missed a couple of home games over the years for whatever reason, and it doesn’t feel right, not going to the game. I hope that when the time comes, you feel the same, because we need all the supporters we can get.
Bob Turner
55 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:50:24
55 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:50:24
Jake, look at the accounts (for y/e May 2006, anyway). It’s all there, I haven’t made the figures up. Our staff costs were £37m (KW is the only director who gets paid, btw, in case someone thinks BK is skimming it all off!), depreciation of their transfer fees were £11m. That’s most of our turnover.
barry hughes
56 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:51:47
56 Posted 27/07/2007 at 15:51:47
It seems to me that some people are missing the point about the ground move. You will not find any more a true scouser than someone from Kirkby, the distance from goodison is not a big factor either, the biggest negative about the move to Kirkby,is the diminishing affiliation with the association towards the city of Liverpool and all that represents in the ever increasing globalised branding and marketing that premiership world domination seems to require.We have already taken ten steps back from were we used to be in this city, and country(historically speaking)its about time we planted a blue flag firmly back in the heart of Liverpool,and reminded everyone that we are the first team of this city. A mixed use commercial development on the edge of a major expanding city, would appear to be easily "DELIVERABLE" to me (scotland rd) any number of lease purchase deals could be thrashed out with half a dozen major developers,by the time the new yankie stadium is built in stanley park Tom and Jerry will have spent over half a billon pounds sterling! buying the club, players etc,it would cost less than a third of that figure for us to invest in a new stadium and new players thus increasing profit, so in this age of private equity deals,for gods sake get someone on the board who thinks big!
Bob Turner
57 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:56:26
57 Posted 27/07/2007 at 16:56:26
Barry, I don’t think investors will be too concerned that we were the first club here. They want money, money comes from success, and wonderful that our history is (to us, anyway), they are more successful than us. And there’s another factor we can’t escape, they’ve got the city’s name! They are always going to be identified with the city before us, because they’re named after it! They’ve even got those f*cking liver birds on their shirts!
Their turnover is twice ours (£120m), so they’ve got more scope to take the risk in building big. But I’ll tell you what - Tom and Jerry are in this for the money. If they’ve invested £500m all in, they’ll want a return on that of, say, 10%, which is £50m to justify their investment. They’re taking a bit risk in doing this, one that Everton, unfortunately, can’t afford to take at this moment.
You mention "deliverable" sites in the city - how? We’re getting free land and a free stadium in Kirkby, we just need to kit it out. Who is going to do this for us in Liverpool?
I really wish they would, but I’m not holding my breath.
Their turnover is twice ours (£120m), so they’ve got more scope to take the risk in building big. But I’ll tell you what - Tom and Jerry are in this for the money. If they’ve invested £500m all in, they’ll want a return on that of, say, 10%, which is £50m to justify their investment. They’re taking a bit risk in doing this, one that Everton, unfortunately, can’t afford to take at this moment.
You mention "deliverable" sites in the city - how? We’re getting free land and a free stadium in Kirkby, we just need to kit it out. Who is going to do this for us in Liverpool?
I really wish they would, but I’m not holding my breath.
Steve Claringbold
58 Posted 27/07/2007 at 17:06:03
58 Posted 27/07/2007 at 17:06:03
I don’t see what we have to lose moving to Kirkby I really don’t.
Fairplay, Tesco’s involvement may be questionable but at the end of the day we’re getting a stadium without having to do very much for it.
Or we could stay in Goodison and miss out on all the revenue that other clubs are bringing in and fall behind the pack.
Fairplay, Tesco’s involvement may be questionable but at the end of the day we’re getting a stadium without having to do very much for it.
Or we could stay in Goodison and miss out on all the revenue that other clubs are bringing in and fall behind the pack.
Barry hughes
59 Posted 27/07/2007 at 17:49:44
59 Posted 27/07/2007 at 17:49:44
Bob I realise that the clubs named after city’s are in most cases more strongly associated, than clubs that dont carry the city’s name, there are some obvious ones that are not, Ajax,Chelsea and any London club, but I agree with your point, so for that same reason it is vital that we do not dilute are affiliation with the city of Liverpool by moving further away. It may be financially painfull in the short term, but this move could be for the next hundred years,so I believe an expensive site close to the city,will in the long term be far more valuble than a free one in Kirkby.
Robbie Muldoon
60 Posted 27/07/2007 at 18:23:24
60 Posted 27/07/2007 at 18:23:24
Steve,
Extra revenue does not equal success. Newcastle have thrown the green stuff round for years and won fuck all.
In my mind successful teams are built from the grass roots nurturing young local lads with tonnes of ability and bringing them through the ranks. Every winning side has them, the Giggs’, Gerrards etc.. This city produces some of the best football players in the country, end of.
Extra revenue does not equal success. Newcastle have thrown the green stuff round for years and won fuck all.
In my mind successful teams are built from the grass roots nurturing young local lads with tonnes of ability and bringing them through the ranks. Every winning side has them, the Giggs’, Gerrards etc.. This city produces some of the best football players in the country, end of.
Steve Claringbold
61 Posted 27/07/2007 at 18:51:04
61 Posted 27/07/2007 at 18:51:04
So hold on, people are saying we have no money and we can’t buy players.
And then on the other hand extra revenue does not equal success.
I’m baffled.
And then on the other hand extra revenue does not equal success.
I’m baffled.
Gavin Ramejkis
62 Posted 27/07/2007 at 19:09:59
62 Posted 27/07/2007 at 19:09:59
Bob a minor but extremely important point, the proposed stadium in Kirkby isn’t free and the figures provided so far don’t add up and are constantly changing, if the club is broke already where will the money towards the stadium come from? Selling GP won’t raise enough and it’s the only asset left
bob patterson
63 Posted 27/07/2007 at 19:48:23
63 Posted 27/07/2007 at 19:48:23
Tony Marsh over the last eighteen months iv’e listened to you spouting,and i think your a red.Like all red noses you seem to know everything about EVERYTHING?.Bob Turner and Andy C seem to know what thier talking about.
Steve Claringbold
64 Posted 27/07/2007 at 20:36:49
64 Posted 27/07/2007 at 20:36:49
Nah, Tony is a blue I’m sure of that.
He’s just a nutcase.
He’s just a nutcase.
Mark Joseph
65 Posted 27/07/2007 at 21:49:47
65 Posted 27/07/2007 at 21:49:47
Marshy lad, can I suggest you join the Scouts to get some map reading exercises............"Kirkby is between Skem and St Helens" absolute classic!
tommy gibbons
66 Posted 27/07/2007 at 23:58:45
66 Posted 27/07/2007 at 23:58:45
Seeing that I started the thread, I may as well finish it..
We do not have any spare cash, therefore no savings for the rainy day.. It’s raining now and the only umbrella I can see has got Tesco/Knowsley all over it..
Bestway/LCC have not got anywhere near a decent proposal to offer EFC or they would have given it already, it seems to me to be a rather shabby and hastily put together deal to save LCC’s face.. Wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them.
Please remember, we have fallen too far behind LFC and other bigger clubs due in part to LFC’s disgraceful behaviour in the 80’s and also because of our own mismanagement since the early 70’s..It’s time to put the past behind us as we did in 1892, and make another green and Everton Land in another place! Wherever we lay our hats, thats are home! This time, with a little help from our friends (Tesco/Knowsley), away from our enemies LCC and our own dithering,small minded supporters? who think far too much of what others say instead of looking at hard cold facts and taking the 2nd chance we’ve been offered in recent years to build a stadium at little cost...do you really think there’s a chance we’ll gat a 3rd?
We do not have any spare cash, therefore no savings for the rainy day.. It’s raining now and the only umbrella I can see has got Tesco/Knowsley all over it..
Bestway/LCC have not got anywhere near a decent proposal to offer EFC or they would have given it already, it seems to me to be a rather shabby and hastily put together deal to save LCC’s face.. Wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them.
Please remember, we have fallen too far behind LFC and other bigger clubs due in part to LFC’s disgraceful behaviour in the 80’s and also because of our own mismanagement since the early 70’s..It’s time to put the past behind us as we did in 1892, and make another green and Everton Land in another place! Wherever we lay our hats, thats are home! This time, with a little help from our friends (Tesco/Knowsley), away from our enemies LCC and our own dithering,small minded supporters? who think far too much of what others say instead of looking at hard cold facts and taking the 2nd chance we’ve been offered in recent years to build a stadium at little cost...do you really think there’s a chance we’ll gat a 3rd?
Shaun Asthon
67 Posted 28/07/2007 at 19:08:56
67 Posted 28/07/2007 at 19:08:56
What I dont understand about Everton being skint is:
- that we have one of the lowest wage budgets in the premiership
- We finished high up in the league
- the amount of fukin sponsership and other things such as EvertonTV on our website
- The sky money?!?!
- The fact that are squad is so fukin small then there must surely be more money for wages
I know there are plently of others things, I jut dont want to go into details. Kenwright is sticking all the money in his back pocket as far as i’m concerned.
- that we have one of the lowest wage budgets in the premiership
- We finished high up in the league
- the amount of fukin sponsership and other things such as EvertonTV on our website
- The sky money?!?!
- The fact that are squad is so fukin small then there must surely be more money for wages
I know there are plently of others things, I jut dont want to go into details. Kenwright is sticking all the money in his back pocket as far as i’m concerned.
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