Thanks for your intelligent and objective summation, Dave. That grey palace represents the skeletal renderings of a potentially redeveloped structure. If you need blue seats, a fully designed facade and searchlights illuminating a cloudless sky to see what is logisticially possible at the current site then the whole presentation was lost on you from the beginning.

Even if you are implacably pro-Kirkby because redeveloping Goodison isn't financially viable, you could at least have the decency to acknowledge rather than ridicule the long hours of work put in by a fellow Blue in his own time and at his own expense.

Yeah I think we need to move now, there is no future in any form at Goodison, but like Lyndon said these guys are trying to come up with a way for the right reasons, cod GP is where our heart is, and I respect that.

I agree with you the loop is way to small too and I am with you I can’t see many more viable alternatives. I just wish there was a way we could get a site near the docks again, somewhere on the waterfront a la Kings Dock, I’m sure there’s enough space that LCC could find for us somewhere? Or Stanley Park, the other end from the new RS ground?

Failing that (which is almost certain) then I’ll begrudgingly accept that Kirkby is the only realistic option to move EFC forward. Either way I’ll still be there supporting the blues.

Dave I replied to someone else that raised the "spectre" of a Walton hotel, how about away fans to the RS games and how many people would you think would stay in hotel in the shangri la of Kirkby? Don’t forget that the entire district is undergoing regeneration; don’t you think the RS building will attract some? Project Jennifer will attract a load more or are you convinced that it will always look like it does right now?

I would echo the first reply and say that there are too many out there ready to belittle and disparage the efforts of genuine fans who care about their team. That to me makes them pompous, aloof and out-of-touch

I listened to the KEIOC guy on Radio Merseyside tonight and couldn’t help the feeling that because he didn’t speak eloquently enough or was a little clumsy at times with his argument that he would be assasinated by some of the esteemed acedemia and know-it alls on here

well said Lyndon

Am I right in saying that the KEIOC people have no financial backing? If thats the case, its probably fair to say they have little chance of having much of an impact - without any money you can’t exactly make any changes can you?

Ah well, I just think some fans have decided that the quick easy fix, is the answer. "
Here you are blues, a spanking new stadium that’s going to be yours and yours alone, for all time and what’s more if we buy one , we get one free!. All yours for the asking, just vote yes and we’re on our way.By the way, there are a few little details, hardly worth mentioning really, that we don’t want you to worry your pretty little heads over but the awkward squad have demanded that we mention. Well, we’ve been told we must mention that Walton has been our home since 1892 and whole business’s have started up, and thrived, by serving Everton FC and her supporters. As we say, a mere detail and when we say "Tara Then", we are sure that Walton will be able to manage,... somehow. Anyway, what’s that got to do with us it’s not our problem. Why should we be concerned that whole generations of people have depended on EFC for their livelehoods.Well, that’s the first little point...told you it was hardly worth mentioning. It can’t be that important anyway because our beloved chairman would have mentioned it otherwise, him being fond of us being the People’s Club and all.
The second little point, absolutely miniscule really and we know you will accept our word. Goodison Park will fall down on Feruary the 17th 2008, we know this beause we have asked the advice of a Chinese astrologer. Therefore, dear friends, we have to leg it, double quick, up to Kirkby. Kirkby, oh yes, we’ll come back to that later but we have been assured that it is part of Liverpool.Who tells us that it is? Why none other than Her Majesty’s Post Office! As is Birkenhead, it’s as much in Liverpool as Toxteth is. And anyway, 90 per cent of the Planet don’t know where we come from at all!
We can’t see what all the fuss is about, we were looking at a really brilliant site in Runcorn but the Gasworks got there before us, never mind.. it’s all part of the Greater Liverpool region so it won’t matter that much.Some really naughty people have tried to kid our beloved fans into thinking that dear old Goodison Park can be re-developed. Honestly, whatever next we dread to think. Before you know it Evertonians will be asking for a debate that encompasses all possible alternatives and for each alternatives, in depth details of the pro’s and cons. We have,because we’re jolly nice people, tried to save you from all the brain hurt that comes from deciding our future because we get paid to do that ( jolly well paid too,) so leave the hard bit ...to us.
Then there’s the red herring about us leaving Liverpool. Silly, silly little Evertonians. As if we’d do that to you,we,the senior club in Liverpool, will not leave our dear old town under any circumstances, not by much anyway. It’s a mere 4 miles from Goodison Park, as the crow flies. And when we get our extra 10 million a year from all the new fans we get, we will be able to parade our first trophy from the steps of the mighty edifice which is Kirkby Town Hall. Just think, we won’t even have to worry about planning a celebration route through that down and out town called, what was it? oh yeah.. LIVERPOOL" David, thanks to you and, we are sure, many other trusting blues, we won’t have to explain how those poor misguided fools who question us, have come up with viable alternatives. Dave, we are so glad you trust us, after all, every little helps.

Lyndon, can you see IP address / ISP details of posters?

I’m certain that people like Dave R. are posting their strong one-sided, biased views due to some vested interest rather than the best interests of Everton FC. There is no doubt that senior management at the club are posting on here pushing their views.

"Goodison may be falling down"...give it a rest, scaremongering bullshite.

It may be right that the ’on a plate’ benefits of Kirkby are what the club needs to turn the corner (financially--in the face of COMPLETE FAILURE to attract investment)......but the soul of the club is not the P&L but the fanbase --so let them decide without the political campaign

An IP address wont tell you anything, all you’ll see is an external IP address of an ISP. You won’t see anything beyond the external address broadcast by the ISP so it means nothing anyway.

IP addresses are not condusive to finding out any more information that that I’m afraid. if they were, this here Internet would be like leaving your front door open.

Chameleon,you say that "Goodison may be falling down" is scaremongering? Well what about the people who say that if we move to Kirkby that "every generation" from now on will support Liverpool,is that not scaremongering? Also,how about when a little kid is walking down the street and sees the huge new RS stadium and then looks at Goodison,if they are all so fickle then we will lose them anyway!

I agree with you I am sure a lot of the posts on both sides are coming from 1 or 2 people.
I am a definite yes.
However I do appreciate the considerable time and effort that some people have put into alternative plans. However with all of this money is going to be the deciding factor. If no potential investor has appeared by now to redevelop Goodison I doubt they ever will. Some how I always hoped Lord Granchester might appear with an alternative.
I can’t believe the loop is an option. Unless Bestway are going to invest money in the club. Also if they are why have they only just come on the scene?
Unless a major potential investor is found in the next week and reveals himself are fate will be decided.
There will be no Plan B as Bill, Earl, Woods and Wyness have decided where they want to go and as they have the major control of the club people can shout all they want but nothing will make a difference.
Therefore unless some solid financial backing from elsewhere appears this week please vote YES or I really do see the end as you can guarantee Kenwright will not invest anymore.

Just one point that the we are getting a free stadium seem to ignore it has been stated that if the ground goes over buget we are liable for a large amount of the extra cost Iam no expert but can any one recall any that did not go over and as we are skint we then borrow so more debt so where is the free ground and also this £10 million each year for players.Please think before you vote are you really going yo trust Bill give the alternatives a chance then if you still feel the same way fine every one is entitled to their opinion and we all want the best for the club

Dave Roberts, if you had really ’taken the trouble’ (Trouble? it’s part of a debate on the biggest decision in the clubs history FFS!!! It should be no trouble to get informed on the issues) to read the .pdf file that explains Tom Hughes concepts for redevelopment you would have read the part where he says he’s a structural engineer and not an architect who is the one that will be responsible for prettying it up around his skeleton.

Dave Roberts,as Eric has said,if you would have taken the time to read the pdf file,you would have understood more,as to why the stadium was presented like it was.And some people have the cheek to call Anti-Kirkby fans luddites.