The Mail Bag
White Elephant
Comments (10)
As predicted, large cracks are now starting to appear in the 'Loop' proposal currently being championed by KEIOC and partners.
Did they really think that the proposed retail development needed to fund a new ground would go ahead unchallenged when Grosvenor Estates one of the largest property developers in the country and owned by Britain's official richest man in the UK, the Duke of Westminister, are pouring over £1 billion into nearby Liverpool city centre?
They certainly ain't going to stand by and watch as a 'secondary' development of retail outlets less than a mile from the 'big dig' dilutes what is a major investment for them!
Judging by this mornings Liverpool Daily Post, they are already preparing their opposition to any development on Scotland Rd.
So by all means, watch as the legal writs fly and in the interim period, our club falls further and further behind the rest.
To me this simply confirms that the 'loop' is no real viable alternative, look at it for what it is, a hastily drawn up scheme backed by opportunists (Bestway) with no history or heritage in working in any kind of partnership with football clubs or indeed anyone else.
Steve Hogan, Posted 07/08/2007 at 08:42:00
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Chris L
1 Posted 07/08/2007 at 15:59:47
1 Posted 07/08/2007 at 15:59:47
When people look at the Loop idea in the same small detail as Kirkby, the loop stadium’s advantages start to vanish. It is obvious that the loop is a last minute long shot and cannot be considered a realistic / reasonable alternative. There is a good chance that The Loop will eventually go the way of the Kings Dock idea. Kirkby is realistic and available now...
Dan Mckie
2 Posted 07/08/2007 at 16:04:09
2 Posted 07/08/2007 at 16:04:09
If there were any kind of legal challenge to the loop by Grosvenor or anyone else against the loop then it would seriously hold up any development and we all know how long lawyers can drag cases out,even if its just to be a pain in the arse!
Cindy Cole
3 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:09:34
3 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:09:34
’When people look at the Loop idea in the same small detail as Kirkby, the loop stadium?s advantages start to vanish’. Er! Chris, surely you meant this the other way round?
And Dan, do you not think building a new folly in Kirkby would drag on?
And Dan, do you not think building a new folly in Kirkby would drag on?
Steve Hogan
4 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:23:21
4 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:23:21
Lyndon, Bestway having a turnover of £1.7b doesn’t give them any legitimacy in my view.
I worked for a supplier to Bestway for 10 years and they are a cash and carry operator who traditionally work on a margin of less than 5-6%,with a high turnover to boot.
I would ask you to find any partnerships/developments of a similar nature in the U.K. that they have actively been involved in during the last 10 years?
At least the much maligned Tesco can demonstrate they can deliver a project, albeit not in the location everyone would like.
Tesco or Bestway as a partner?
It’s a no-brainer.
I worked for a supplier to Bestway for 10 years and they are a cash and carry operator who traditionally work on a margin of less than 5-6%,with a high turnover to boot.
I would ask you to find any partnerships/developments of a similar nature in the U.K. that they have actively been involved in during the last 10 years?
At least the much maligned Tesco can demonstrate they can deliver a project, albeit not in the location everyone would like.
Tesco or Bestway as a partner?
It’s a no-brainer.
JD
5 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:22:49
5 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:22:49
Thanks Lyndon ? TW the site that exposes all things contrived and disingenuous fed to us by the hierarchy!
For a minute there I was thinking that the Loop was a last minute invention of an untrustworthy, ?I was in the meetings but nobody mentioned the festival was under threat? self-interested councillor, designed only to confuse already uncertain voters! But no, it seems it is a well thought through ?iconic? solution to everyone?s problem. Thank God for that. I?d only just finished Macdonald?s concise (!!) and intelligent treatise realising that, for the sake of my children and a bloke covered with tattoos and the innate creativity to call his kids by past players names, Kirkby is an ill conceived, self-centred short-term fix! Now it seems, all me birthdays have arrived on the very same day and the Loop is not, as I cynically thought, a last minute hostage-to-fortune colluded over by LCC and its business buddies! This all on top of a very believable 90% anti-Kirkby exit poll at a KEIOC fest (I was slightly worried as to why it wouldn?t be 100% in those circumstances but KEIOC know best). I am now assuming that, as long as Bradley?s other major city centre investors don?t give him an almighty kick in the bollocks and send him into a 180, he will be as good as his word and guide this through as well as, err, the Mathew Street festival!
?Anyone who has spoken to Bestway’s people about this "Loop" proposal has left feeling convinced that they are serious about the project.? Well, why didn?t you say so sooner, it would have saved me a lot of soul-searching!
For a minute there I was thinking that the Loop was a last minute invention of an untrustworthy, ?I was in the meetings but nobody mentioned the festival was under threat? self-interested councillor, designed only to confuse already uncertain voters! But no, it seems it is a well thought through ?iconic? solution to everyone?s problem. Thank God for that. I?d only just finished Macdonald?s concise (!!) and intelligent treatise realising that, for the sake of my children and a bloke covered with tattoos and the innate creativity to call his kids by past players names, Kirkby is an ill conceived, self-centred short-term fix! Now it seems, all me birthdays have arrived on the very same day and the Loop is not, as I cynically thought, a last minute hostage-to-fortune colluded over by LCC and its business buddies! This all on top of a very believable 90% anti-Kirkby exit poll at a KEIOC fest (I was slightly worried as to why it wouldn?t be 100% in those circumstances but KEIOC know best). I am now assuming that, as long as Bradley?s other major city centre investors don?t give him an almighty kick in the bollocks and send him into a 180, he will be as good as his word and guide this through as well as, err, the Mathew Street festival!
?Anyone who has spoken to Bestway’s people about this "Loop" proposal has left feeling convinced that they are serious about the project.? Well, why didn?t you say so sooner, it would have saved me a lot of soul-searching!
Andy
6 Posted 07/08/2007 at 19:07:39
6 Posted 07/08/2007 at 19:07:39
Where in the article is there any indication from Grosvenor that they would challenge the loop? This is yet more mis-leading crap being fed from the Echo/Post on behalf of Everton with a spurious headline that isn’t backed up in the article. Before dismissing the Loop proposal, wait for the details to come out and then make your mind up.
JD - thanks for your constructive and insightful piece, with such sharp wit and factual counter-arguements I’m glad I don’t have any tattoos otherwise I may incur the wrath of your poisoned pen.
JD - thanks for your constructive and insightful piece, with such sharp wit and factual counter-arguements I’m glad I don’t have any tattoos otherwise I may incur the wrath of your poisoned pen.
Brian Waring
7 Posted 07/08/2007 at 20:27:22
7 Posted 07/08/2007 at 20:27:22
Thing is Dan,if the residents in Kirkby start to oppose the stadium build,and start fighting it.Whats the bets the government call it in to have a look at the situation.And we all know what politicians are like.
Neil Pearse
8 Posted 07/08/2007 at 20:54:34
8 Posted 07/08/2007 at 20:54:34
The continued comparison as if Tesco and Bestway are similar companies with similar capacities is utterly ridiculous.
In world terms Tesco would be, say, at least Bayern Munich. I’m sorry, but in comparison Bestway are something like Carlisle United.
Tesco are one of the leading retailers on the planet, with huge experience of large scale commercial developments, and massive political clout at the very centre of the UK Government. Terry Leahy has massive public exposure and is not going to touch anything that could make himself or his company look bad.
All this scaremongering that Kirkby might be some sort of commercial or political disaster is ridiculous. Do you think Tesco have grown under Leahy to be such a dominant force by fucking things up? (Go on. Think about it.)
Can we please stop this nonsense of pretending that Bestway are like Tesco, and have anything like the capabilities (including money and political clout) to deliver on what is being discussed re the Loop?
In world terms Tesco would be, say, at least Bayern Munich. I’m sorry, but in comparison Bestway are something like Carlisle United.
Tesco are one of the leading retailers on the planet, with huge experience of large scale commercial developments, and massive political clout at the very centre of the UK Government. Terry Leahy has massive public exposure and is not going to touch anything that could make himself or his company look bad.
All this scaremongering that Kirkby might be some sort of commercial or political disaster is ridiculous. Do you think Tesco have grown under Leahy to be such a dominant force by fucking things up? (Go on. Think about it.)
Can we please stop this nonsense of pretending that Bestway are like Tesco, and have anything like the capabilities (including money and political clout) to deliver on what is being discussed re the Loop?
JD
9 Posted 07/08/2007 at 21:39:20
9 Posted 07/08/2007 at 21:39:20
Thanks Andy. I’m working up to your ’yet more misleading crap....’ factual counter-argument but that’s a big ask, obviously!
Andy
10 Posted 07/08/2007 at 21:45:51
10 Posted 07/08/2007 at 21:45:51
For your benefit JD, I’ll explain mis-leading crap - headline reads ’Grosvenor to fight City stadium plan’; the story then follows with no reference to Grosvenor even acknowledging the potential development, never mind having an objection. The only reference to any grumbling comes from Ed Oliver, the Deputy Chairman of the chamber of commerce who says: ?A large commercial scheme so close to the retail and business heart of the city would almost certainly face opposition. I personally do not think it will come to that because I am sure there will be little demand for retail space on the fringe of the city when there is so much commercial activity in the city centre. Whilst I agree with the general opinion that Everton should try to stay within Liverpool I do not see the trumpet site as a viable option, because it will probably not work economically and even if it was progressed forward there would be concerns and opposition raised from existing city centre businesses.? So, in summary, he ’thinks’ there would be objection if the development included retail space (from existing city centre businesses - no mention of Grosvenor), but he feels this is highly unlikely. If you can link the headline to the story, I’d like to know how. Maybe the headline should have read ’Deputy Chairman of Chamber of Commerce agrees that Everton should stay in the City’, given that he actually said that.
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Anyone who has spoken to Bestway's people about this "Loop" proposal has left feeling convinced that they are serious about the project. I don't think they'd be putting the money, time and effort they're currently expending to pull together feasibility studies and plans just because they're opportunists or involved in some grand charade on behalf of LCC.
FInally, I have also been led to believe that Bestway's plans for the land around the loop are for business and commerce, not retail but I'm sure the political games are only just beginning on that score.