ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Moyes Progress

The selling of Beattie to Sheffield United marks real progress for the club. Trouble is Moyes was the one who paid £6M for him when many an Evertonian knew he was the wrong player for Everton. And Beattie has held back the progress of the club for two and a half years.

Maybe now after signing yet another defender (where we've always been particularly strong) he can bring in the two essential players we've always needed since Moyes arrived at Everton. That is a dominant playmaker in midfield and a good wide man.

And, seeing as Moyes has finally admitted Beattie is another one of his transfer flops (along with Wright, Jeffers, Kilbane, Kroldrup, Davies, Van Der Meyde and with the signing of Baines - Valente) maybe he should take advice from someone who knows something about strikers the next time he?s looking for one, which should be now.

Speaking of which, I can name the good strikers Moyes has sold but apart from Johnson who are the good strikers he has signed in 5 years? Maybe that?s why it was a scratch team against Crystal Palace. Progress at Everton? Let?s just call it ?Moyes progress?.
Ged Dwyer, Liverpool Posted 07/08/2007 at 10:27:25

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PL PL
1 Posted 07/08/2007 at 16:46:09

Em, how was Kilbane a flopp? He done alright for a year or 2 and he was cheap as chips?Jeffers was free? Why all the moaning?

For every Wright there’s Martyn, kroldrup there’s Lescott.

When you are working on a shoestring budget you’re bound to pick up some shite? Moyes has picked out some gems in the transfer market..

Cahill, Arteta, Lescott, Martyn

Allan
2 Posted 07/08/2007 at 16:50:15

Not every player fits the bill, even if a manager thinks they will when they buy them. You cant blame Moyes for any of his signings really.

Adam Carey
3 Posted 07/08/2007 at 16:46:38

You can hardly call Kilbane or Valente flops. We got twice our money back on Kilbane and although he didn’t set Goodison alight he was a good player for us. Likewise, Valente was only ever signed to make up squad numbers and give us options at leftback. Wright was a onetime international who lost his confidence and Jeffers a panic loan which was rectified. Will agree with you on Kroldrup, Davies and Van Der Meyde.
Still not a bad overall transfer record.

Tony Marsh
4 Posted 07/08/2007 at 16:49:18

Ged progress to the Moyes Muppets
means not getting relegated and
having a better league placing than Walter Smith gave us.Thats about it really.
The likes of Paul Atress has already stated that a top 10 finish will do just fine for him and he is one of the main Moyes supporters on this site.
Dont even think about trophies or even a good cup run thats not in the script yet as we are only 6 years in to Moyes,s 5 year plan.Work that one out

jon williams
5 Posted 07/08/2007 at 16:44:16

Marcus Bent did ok didn’t he? He has brought 3 out and out strikers to the club on permanent deals. One has been a flop, one was a success for the money paid and the other is an England international. He also has 2 great prospects in Vaughan and Anichebe and Cahill who is more prolific than a lot of Strikers in the Premier League. Up unitl Vaughan and Cahill’s respective injuries there was no need to buy another striker. Now there is I guess but I would hate whoever we bought to hinder the progress of the exciting Vaughan.

You only name his flops so lets name his successes: Lescott, Yobo, Howard, Martyn, Arteta, Cahill, Johnson, Neville not a bad list of players really, lets hope we can add Jakielka Pienarr and Baines to my list and not yours.

Andy Baker
6 Posted 07/08/2007 at 16:52:47

I think moyes has done well in the transfer market considering he can only ever bring in 2 or 3 signings.

every manager even Sir alex ferguson buys shite - Forlan - Veron - Djemba Djemba - Taibi (the goalie) - Kleberson.

Jose Mourinho - Ballack - Shevchenko.

Not evry signing works for whatever reason, look at the list of names above, some of them should ahve been world beaters but it just hasnt/didnt work.

Considering the squad he has now assembled (all young on long deals etc) on a shoe string budget hes a fuckin wizard!

Michael
7 Posted 07/08/2007 at 16:53:37

Ged - hindsight is a wonderful thing. Every PL club has a history of buying flops, so it’s unfair to single out DM for obvious failures - such as Beattie, Wright etc. I agree with you about the imediate priorities but am scratching my head about "the good strikers Moyes sold". Please don’t mention Rooney - he went willingly.

Mark Pendleton
8 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:14:41

I think there are far many fans that thought Beattie and Wrighty were excellent signings than weren’t. Yes, i get frustrated with the slowly slowly way Moyesey is having to build the team but overall i’m proud to watch a team including Howard, Yobo, Lescott, Baines, Arteta, Cahill, AJ, Vaughan and Anichebe. And the sort of role the likes of Stubbs and Neville are playing is excellent too. Let’s hope we’re adding Pienaar to that list soon too. I still think the future’s bright, the future’s Moyes.

Andrew Ryan
9 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:10:03

David Moyes has done an excellent job for Everton. Get of his case or p*ss off to Chelsea.

Allan
10 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:19:24

Nuno is hardly a squad player, the blokes first choice for Portugal and only missed out for us due to injury. He’s actually a very good defender (in my humble opinion - I played left back for 4 seasons much to my dismay during a glittering pub career!)

D9VO
11 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:20:48

What a load of bullshit
its the last time i read this pathetic spin on what can only be descibed a unbeleivable progress under moyes !!!!
Champions league and uefa in 3 seasons come on get a grip we spent nowt ya prick end

Sam Morrison
12 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:24:27

This is a bit weird. Haven’t we done this whole transfer bit at length on TW already? Tony, please don’t tar all the pro-Moyes mob with the same ’we brook no criticism’ brush. That’s the same kind of simplification you would rightly pick Dutch up on. I think Moyes’ record with transfers is decent and getting better. To say Beattie held us back for 2 years has a germ of truth - but a vast exaggeration, surely?

Ray Said
13 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:22:22

At what point in time did our club (and some of the supporters judging by recent contributions) give up on actually winning something? Progress has occurred under Moyes but i for one wont be satisfied until we win something.
Better managers than Moyes have been given the bullet by this club-but that was when we had men of vision on a board of directors that aspired to live up to the motto.
Lets not be content with crap hoofball and a top ten finish. We should aspire to better than that FFS!

Tim Banks
14 Posted 07/08/2007 at 17:36:44

"Better managers than Moyes have been given the bullet by this club-but that was when we had men of vision on a board of directors that aspired to live up to the motto."

It was also when we were the Merseyside Millionaires, Ray. One of the things that drives me nuts about Liverpool fans is the way that they always live in the past. Don’t go the same way. Look at things in the current context instead.

Allan
15 Posted 07/08/2007 at 18:11:11

Evertonians live on the past big time though Tim. If y’know yer history? C’mon, if that doesn’t say it all I don’t know what does.

I was at Chelsea last day of the season and the Chelsea fans were singing about their recent league wins and almost EVERY Evertonian in the away was holding up 9 fingers to indicate our title wins. The Chelsea fans (who I was sat amongst) thought it was laughable.

Ged Dwyer
16 Posted 07/08/2007 at 18:32:20

In reply to :
PL PL - ’He did alright for a year or two’. That just about sums Kilbane up. OK when the going was good. Shit when the team where up against it.
Allan - Good managers might buy the odd flop Moyes has bought too many, some of them for big money.
Adam - See above for Kilbane. Why has Moyes shelled out 6m for Baines if he thinks Valente is good enough when there are other areas of the team that desperately need strengthening ?
Jon - Yes Bent did ok for us. And then Moyes signed Beattie dropped him or played him wide right and his head dropped. He was ok and Moyes ruined
Michael - There is no hindsight when it comes to Beattie. I knew he was not suited for Everton. I knew he was over rated and I certainly knew he couldn’t play as a lone striker unlike Moyes.
Tony Marsh is right. To a lot of people progress is not getting relegated. I happen to think that a club like Everton can still win the odd trophy while playing good football and without bags of money if the manager is right. And I don’t think progress is good season, bad season, good season, bad season, good season.... Watch this space!
I shouldn’t reply to idiots like D9VO. He can’t give a genuine name or a genuine opinion. It sums up a lot of Moyes supporters that all they can do is use language that should be used on themselves. We didn’t get in the Champions League by the way we were dumped out of the first qualifying game and were then hammered in the UEFA Cup.

Gav Jones
17 Posted 07/08/2007 at 19:25:34

I agree with you generally Ged but in fairness to Kilbane, he was one of the only rays of light in the season we finished 17th and a regular starter when we broke into the big 4. I’d say that’s more than ’alright’. Also his effort was usually pretty good so to say he was shit when the team were up against it is a bit harsh I feel. Fair enough after that he went downhill but we got a good price for him in the end. I’d count him as one of Moyes’ better bits of business.

Tim Banks
18 Posted 07/08/2007 at 19:38:59

If only Ged was managing Everton. We’d be champions now for sure, what with the way he can spot every mistake before Moyes makes it and the fact that unlike us mere mortals he doesn’t have to rely on hindsight.

Imagine what Moyes could be like if he suddenly started buying well. I like the way that people like Ged complain that we’ll be relying on untested kids if we don’t buy new players, yet the moment we do buy someone it’s in the wrong area. What if Valente had got injured when Yobo was on ANC duty? Boyle or Lescott would have had to step in, leaving us with no-one in reserve at either left-back or centre-half. As it is, we’ve signed England’s current u-21 left back, who has a couple of years’ experience and some attacking verve.

We don’t know how much money there is to spend, and we don’t know who Moyes is interested in. If you’re going to complain about the transfer policy, leave it till 1 September when we can judge it as a whole.

Andy baker
19 Posted 07/08/2007 at 19:58:38

i like to back up arguments with actual facts. I was doing some thinking the other day and i reckon that over the past 6 years (this was befor baines btw) that moyes has only actually ’spent’ about 11m. Now if that is the case its less than 2m a season or 1m every window. As i say i could be wrong and will back up my estimates with some forthcoming research.

If it is the case then surely you would have to say hes been fantastic. I do anyway, at one point i thought it was relegation every season with geriatric players!

Rigby
20 Posted 07/08/2007 at 19:55:00

" I happen to think that a club like Everton can still win the odd trophy while playing good football and without bags of money if the manager is right"
How many clubs have won a trophy in the time Moyes has been at Everton, irrespective of ’ good football and no money’? One club outside of MUFC, CFC, AFC and the ShiteFC have won a trophy. How many have finished 4th in that time? One, us. But then, Moyes still has no clue eh?

Ray
21 Posted 07/08/2007 at 22:14:16

Really what Everton do need ever so badly is some sort of silverwear in this modern era..We are living off past long gone glory days really arent we?. How many more years can we really go barren for?. In my opinion in this day and age the most realistic trophy we can have is the Carling Cup ( League Cup ) and its bitterly dissapointing how shamefully we have performed in that competition for the last 17 or 18 years now..I cant believe a club the size of Everton ( on history yep ) has not competed in the final of this cup for so bloody long..Lokk at the clubs who have been there?. Tranmere even got there..Leicester won it twice, Boro won it..Why is the reason for us doing so badly in it?. We havent even had the excitement of a 2 legged semi final..People call it a Mickey Mouse cup but Im sure we’d all love to snap this up this season if someone offered it to us now especially given its the only domestic we havent won..Come on Blues give us some modern day success and lets make some history again.Its been too long