The Mail Bag
Visit the loop and see for yourself
Comments (19)
When Kirkby was first suggested by the club I was excited by the prospect, we were having a consistent season and the talk of the new stadium coupled with state-of-the-art training facilities and academy excited me. In my mind since the start of the Moyes era we have made slow but steady progress, (I know you will point to 17th place but overall we have).
Then came the exclusivity period which I assume was put in place to protect Tesco's interests. We were told there would be a ballot of the fans to see if we would support any proposed move.
My view was pointing towards a yes vote, and then came KEIOC. We were told a significant minority of Evertoinans met to discuss the future of Keeping the club in our city. Bradley announced that he was aware of investors who would be interested and that there would be parcels of land available.
Even the most ardent yes voter would want if possible to stay within the Walton/Everton area or at a push the city centre. But I have to admit that the suggested location of Kirkby just doesn?t cause a problem for me.
I was proud that ordinary Evertonians were undertaking efforts to ensure the survival of our club and there would at least be a counter point to any official line. Even if I decided to cast a yes vote?
Meanwhile the people?s park had been well and truly surrendered by the city to our bastard offspring, the Yanks invaded with plans to annex the park as a 51st state, making the possibility of keeping Everton in the Walton/ Everton area remote.
Realistically we all know in our hearts that the suggestion that Goodison would be redeveloped was a non-starter. Yes it could be, we?ve known that since the GFE plans, but we knew it would not be deliverable (to use bullyspeak).
I don?t propose to go over where my view of the KEIOC group soured, we all know it and they know too where they have gone wrong yet they, with Bradley's assistance, lead us to believe that there is a site, a holy grail if you will, and presented to us the Scotty Road Bestway/loop. KEIOC have championed this site with a passion whilst still beating the redevelopment drum.
Not only that but they a held a public consultation which I attended. It became clear to me from the consultation that redevelopment was still the preferred option, but was told the proposal would fit on the loop. We were then informed that Bestway wanted to do their own design and that that was going to be delivered shortly.
I listened to Radio Merseyside last night and in my view James Barton was the only one who made any sense, Bully did what he is paid to do ,and the No point of view did them selves no favours with the emotive anti board spin (in my opinion).
Even at this point the NO campaign had still not convinced me that plan B (redevelopment) or C (loop) are deliverable.
And then it hit me, today landed with a thud through the letter box an envelope from the electoral reform services. This is it no more hiding behind internet message boards, can?t put it off any longer have to make a decision. I?m still leaning to a yes vote I have read the clubs brochure and the KEIOC/GFE update what else can I do?
And then it hit me go to the loop. I?m in Liverpool, the loop's in Liverpool, so tonight I jumped in the car and went to the loop, made my way over the drawbridge single entrance and formed my own view of plan C. My only points of reference are Anfield, Goodison, Maine road, Eastland?s, Millennium stadium and Old Trafford.
I was able to drive right round the site and it immediately struck me that we would struggle to fit Goodison in and have sufficient room to breathe if leisure/ other business was also part of the development. On-site parking would have to be abandoned and any future expansion would have to be at the expense of the on-site leisure developments. I know of no stadium in the country that has under-pitch parking and I know how we like our firsts but can't see that happening.
I would urge those who are pinning their hopes on the loop as a credible alternative take some time and visit the site before you vote. It may not change your view but has to be better than a wide angle aerial shot of the site.
The ballot paper doesn?t have to be in until 23/08/2007 and I would urge you to take some time to consider your vote before it is cast however you end up voting.
Finally I would again urge for calm on Saturday, you may disagree with alternative views however we are all Evertonians and Saturday should be about what happens on the pitch
Come on you blues
Chris Taggart, Posted 07/08/2007 at 20:49:39
Comments
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1 Posted 07/08/2007 at 22:05:08
and hope that if we can get going
as a football team and get our selves in the spotlight a bit more then someone will come along with a plan to buy out BK.To run away from the spotlight by hiding
in a retail park in Knowsley will definetly not raise our profile.
How can it? Once weare gone then thats it Liverpool will reap all the benefits of being the only club in a one club city.New fans
the corporate sector,players will all flock to the new Anfield while we wither and die in the out backs on acheap and nasty retail car park. Sad but oh so true.
2 Posted 07/08/2007 at 22:08:13
A NO vote is not a YES vote for The Loop site. This site represents other options rather than a "no plan B, exclusivity period" that Wyness puts forward.
A NO vote is exactly what it is - a NO to moving to Kirkby.
I hope Evertonians realise the huge decision they have to make that affects future generations of Evertonians. Goodison is old but she’s not falling down. Lets sit tight until the right option becomes available.
3 Posted 07/08/2007 at 22:19:49
4 Posted 07/08/2007 at 22:22:44
5 Posted 07/08/2007 at 22:21:35
Forget the Loop, forget GP redevelopment, they are utter irrelevances. They are physically of marginal practicality, and financially impossible for us.
The only thing that makes sense if you are going to vote ’No’ is that you believe that a (very) big new investor is about to come along and pay for a new ground for us in the city. (For sure as hell the LCC and Bestway aren’t going to.)
If you don’t believe this, then you are willing to risk our club languishing in Goodison for years, with a decaying ground and stagnant revenues.
I think taking this kind of risk with our club is irresponsible, which is why I will vote ’Yes’.
I also believe we are more likely to get a new investor AFTER we have landed a new ground paid for by Tesco and Knowsley.
But I am glad that all you ’No’ voters are so convinced that our sugar daddy is just around the corner. You couldn’t give the rest of us a hint as to why they haven’t shown up yet, and who they might be could you?
6 Posted 07/08/2007 at 22:58:04
7 Posted 07/08/2007 at 23:10:51
If I had the odd hundred million and really wanted to take over Everton, I wouldn’t take no for an answer, would you?
Investors will more likely come after we land Kirkby for the rather obvious reason that (unless they are REALLY rolling in it like our RS Yank friends) they will not have to find millions themselves to build a new stadium.
I’m sure you see it differently, but a financial investor is going to look pretty positively on a big traditional club like Everton, with a shiny new stadium in a big new development backed by none other a respected business force than Tesco.
One thing is for sure: they won’t give a flying fuck that the new ground is on Merseyside but four miles from the existing ground, and across a meaningless council borderline (which could easily change again anyway).
8 Posted 07/08/2007 at 23:23:00
Don’t be so naive in following this Kirkby or bust attitude. I am quite certain the majority will vote NO. I used to think the NO voters were voting with their hearts but now I’m convinced they’re (we’re) the ones who have given this the most thought.
9 Posted 07/08/2007 at 23:30:29
But financially we are in poor shape, to put it mildly, and desperately need the new sources and levels of revenue that would come from a new stadium.
My view is that we would certainly be languishing in Goodison if we were still there in a couple of years time, no big new investor having bought out BK, no new ground on the horizon. That is the nightmare scenario.
As I’ve already posted, if you believe that a very major new investor is about to appear to pay for a new ground, you can happily vote ’No’ to Kirkby. Who knows which part of Liverpool they might buy up to put our new mega-stadium on?
If you are not confident that such an investor will appear in the next year or so, and we reject Kirkby now - then I can promise you that you will come to massively regret that you did not take the money from Tesco and Knowsley and build a new stadium four miles from Goodison.
It’s up to you. Whatever my heart tells me about leaving Goodison, my head tells me not to rely on a new investor suddenly dropping from the skies to solve all our problems.
10 Posted 07/08/2007 at 23:48:47
11 Posted 08/08/2007 at 00:13:39
What is the financing of the deal and how does it work? Terry Leahy is not giving us a handout, will we be paying tescos back for the rest of my lifetime and my childs lifetime?
I couldn’t give a shit about conspiracy theories. The club have not given us anywhere near enough information to vote properly on this topic. If you vote yes, it’s a blind vote or a leap of faith and I don’t think Kenwright warrants that kind of faith. I also don’t think a new stadium in a retail park makes us a better business propsition to investors. Has a billionnaire bought Bolton? We are a much better proposition if we stay within the city boundaries.
12 Posted 08/08/2007 at 01:03:14
*..
13 Posted 08/08/2007 at 07:21:22
We need an investor before we can improve our match day facilities but we can?t improve our match day facilities without an investor, do you see the problem?
No serious investor is going to look at Everton and go right the club will cost me £80mil and I?ll need £50mill for players that ought to do it, what?, facilities a bit ramshackle, what? 4 to 10 thousand restricted views what? Land locked what? JLA terminal 2 in Stanley park what? Need a new stadium? That will be 130 mil plus 200 mil, ?then fuck that I?m off to city, villa, Coventry, with my wad?.
I am under no illusions that the club will more than likely be sold if Kirkby does go through, but I fail to see how this isn?t a win-win, you get Billy bulshitter out, we get fresh investment, stadium, playing squad etc, you cant accuse Bill of doing things on the cheap and then hoping a cheap solution can be found to resolve the problem.
A no vote is a vote for uncertainty, to stand still; it is one of imperfect options, i.e. we might be able to build elsewhere with emphasis on the might.
A yes vote, is a vote for some certainty, it is certain that we will leave goodison park for Kirkby, it is certain that our new stadium will be in Kirkby, it is certain that the new stadium will be delivered with assistance from our partners
what is still uncertain is the level of debt that would be attched either the kirkby project, or the options project,
I agree with Neil Pearse (great posts BTW mate) you are taking a huge leap of faith that something better is around the corner if you vote No but at least you will have had the oppertunity to explore other options right?
14 Posted 08/08/2007 at 10:12:19
I spoke to the Bestway representative last Friday and two points which he mentioned may help clarify some of the issues you have.
Firstly, they were looking at the option of under-stadium parking (which, of course, may or may not be feasible). Secondly, the mixed retail development mentioned in conjunction with LCC would be in the area surrounding the Loop Site, not in it.
Hope this helps, but lets wait and see what develops this week.
15 Posted 08/08/2007 at 11:09:10
I love goodison but lets face it , we are never going to redevelop her.
AS for the loop it seem like ,lets suggest any old site ,weve(lcc) done nothing for them in the past but lets look like we care.
Dont think so ,besides LCC cant organise a Piss up in town(mathew street)
What chance have they with a stadium.
Im prepared to listen to the Loop suggestion but give me figures,statistics and most important were the money will come from to build it.
KEIOC done nothing for me, the day they showed footage of violence on Everton Valley they lost all credibillity.
16 Posted 08/08/2007 at 12:26:59
17 Posted 08/08/2007 at 12:33:49
I will assume that the bestway plan will be designed to fit the site, I just cant see it working, I apreciate i am a layman compared to you however i am guessing covering up the tunnel to expand the site is not cheap
My concern that there is a core of our support that are using the Loop site to justify their no vote and have formed that view by drinking KEIOC’s kool aid,
I know I am not preaching to the choir but I cant get over the feeling that that if a no vote happens the loop will be exposed for the red herring it undoubtedly is
EFC might not have a plan B but neither do LCC/bestway/KIEOC, They dont like spin as long as its not theirs
I have no doubt that the bestway plans will be seen to be viable but who do you trust to deliver
TESCO/KMBC
or
LCC/bestway
given the failings of LCC thus far
BIG DIG
Kings dock arena
matthew street
loss of events such as creamfields
I wouldnt trust Bradley to find his arse with both hands, what makes ordinary evertonians that they can deliver a staduim?
Given that the vote will be closed prior to the end of the months consultation i feel that the loop should be discounted from anyones deliberations.
18 Posted 08/08/2007 at 13:11:00
However, I am not sure the suggestion from Tony to just sit tight and wait for an investor to buy out KW is the right choice either. We could end up with a foreign investor who doesn’t really care what the fans think and just goes ahead and moves us even further away from Goodison. We will have no vote, no say whatsoever.
Now where are we going to find a billionaire Blue...
19 Posted 08/08/2007 at 19:52:33
Surely anyone can see with the naked eye that it would be impossible to fit a state of the art stadium there without building stands out over the road (just imagine the planning process for that).
Then of course we would need to attract businesses around the stadium.On Wednesday the Liverpool chamber of commerce made a statement in the local press that Grosvenor and other city centre businesses would fight any development there...Keith Wyness is right all the potential sites are being dismissed one by one..
The Kirkby site is the only realistic chance we have within the forseeable future to move and attract investment.

