ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Cards on the Table

Right lads, I'll start by saying that I think that Kirkby is the best way forward. But, if I'm honest, staying in the City boundary would be the ideal solution.

Personally, I think this Loop business is nonsense. And I'll not let it enter my head when I cast my vote. However, there will, unfortunately, be those who see this as a genuine alternative. My fear, therefore, is that people who would otherwise be voting yes, may now be inclined to vote no in the hope that the Loop comes off, which in my honest opinion it wont.

People of this mindset, that is those who are interested in seeing the Loop site put forward as a genuine alternative, deserve to be given more information before they cast a vote that may potentially harm the future progression of the club.

So, if there is anybody out there who can provide an explanation on the most important aspect of any proposed site ? the funding ? then I would challenge you now to answer the following questions:

1) Do you know how much the Loop site would cost?

2) Who will pay for it?

3) What would Bestway get out of this?

Cheers.
Lee Spargo, Wallasey Posted 09/08/2007 at 20:15:16

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Comments

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Lyndon

Before I get to your questions, can you tell why a multi-national company with an annual turnover of £1.7bn would be expending all the effort they currently are on "nonsense"? You are fully entitled to your scepticism but you have nothing to lose ? except perhaps the extra cost of registered post to guarantee its delivery by the ballot cutoff ? by waiting a couple of weeks to see what the "Loop" proposal actually entails.

To your questions:

We don't yet know how much the Loop site will cost but Bestway have said that if the proposal comes together the way they envision it, Everton's contribution would be similar to that in Kirkby, i.e. circa £50m. Of course, that's the most recent figure we've been given for Kirkby ? I don't for a minute think it will be the last.
Again, no one, except perhaps Bestway themselves, knows the specifics yet but there will be an "enabling development" similar to the "enabling development" involving Tesco.
Bestway get out of it what any investor in an urban regeneration project gets out of any successful commercial and residential development.

Whether the "Loop" proposal comes together or not will depend on a number of complicated factors but it cannot simply be dismissed as "nonsense" ? the fact that Messers Kenwright and Earl have both spoken to Bestway in the past 10 days would suggest as much.

Conspiracy theories of "nonsense" proposals to scupper the Kirkby vote aside, you have nothing to lose by being patient, delaying your vote and allowing more information to come to light before making your decision.

Brian Waring
1 Posted 09/08/2007 at 21:20:34

Lee,I don’t understand how you can dismiss the loop as nonsense.At the end of the day,this load of nonsense(as you put it)must be costing Bestway and LCC a fair few quid.They have surveyors,building engineers etc looking at this project.At the end of the day,if it was nonsense,why are they laying out money to see if it is viable?I know,maybe they are spending the money,just to scupper the vote.My arse.

Lee Spargo
2 Posted 09/08/2007 at 21:38:59

Lyndon, Brian,

I’ll tell you why i think it is nonsense shall I?

It’s because we are voting on an important issue and this idea of the Loop site is being pushed as a viable alternative when nobody, not even Bestway themselves can say that it is truly viable.

I am not questioning the motives of Bestway, it would probably be a good deal for them comercially (as Kirkby is for Tesco) and I do not see how you could read that from my post. I am, however, questioning the motives of LCC and KEIOC who are both championing this ’proposal’.

I do not see that there is enough information regarding this site for it even enter my thoughts when I vote, let alone persuade me to change my mind and vote against what the Chairman and Cheif Exec beleive is the best way forward.

One final thing, there has been much debate about whether a 50,000 stadium can actually fit on the site. Personally, I doubt it, but even aside from that, safety surely has to be an issue? Hypothetically, if we could squeeze the structure of a new stadium on the Loop, then what about the 50,000 people walking around it? Is it the intention that all these people will squeeze onto footbridges over Scotland Road and over the Tunnel Approach itself?

I Love Goodison lads, and i’d love us to stay this side of the ’boundary’. But presently, the Kirkby deal is the ONLY deal on the table. If we’re not careful, we’ll miss the boat - again.

Peter Fearon
3 Posted 09/08/2007 at 21:18:38

Maybe these answers won?t specifically address your eagerness to move to Kirkby, but one answer on funding, wherever you go, is this. You start by creating a separate corporation, let?s call it Stadium Inc., 51 per cent owned by EFC. Give it Goodison. It now has a real asset with value Wyness says is about 15 million. You can leverage that even more by securing planning permissions on the land in advance of sale, making it more valuable to a prospective buyer. Then you raise a loan based on the money you will get from the naming rights, or you sell naming rights themselves in advance. Wyness says that?s 25 million. Now you have 40 million. Now you seek multiple venture capital partners based on the remaining 49 per cent of the corporation. You expand that interest by including other elements along with the stadium - the hotel, residential, entertainment stuff. Then you seek EU, UK and regional grant funding. It?s not everything, there will still be long term debt, but now you are at least off to the races. It?s the way most construction projects are funded. The issue people don?t want to recognize is that Wyness and Everton WANT to move out of the city. They WANT to move as far away from the new Liverpool stadium as practical while remaining on Merseyside. We are downsizing, reinventing ourselves as a lot of businesses do when they face problems. That?s why no other sites have been or will be seriously considered. There?s no particular magic about the Tesco partnership or the funding mechanisms. The stadium isn?t free. It?s just being poorly located and done on the cheap. But don?t worry. I think you?ll get your wish and you?ll be dancing in the rubble of Goodison soon enough.

Rupert Sullivan
4 Posted 09/08/2007 at 22:08:34

Lee - what makes you think that the Kirkby option is any more viable? What information has EFC given you to convince you of this other than their word?

I have serious confidence issues in the information which has been released so far, it is unsubstantiated nonsense backed up by player support.

I am not a stadium architect and so I couldn’t say if the site was large enough, but I would have more confidence in a board that had looked at other options, I have no faith in someone who tells me that there is no other option. For the life of me I cannot understand what EFC had to gain from an Exclusivity deal when looking for a new site.

There are always options - although they would need funding. However, I would willingly support EFC financially for a new stadium (as I am sure would many Blues) but I would need to see something a little more solid than anything so far released.

Name withheld for exclusivity
5 Posted 10/08/2007 at 00:51:38

Mr Spargo
Greetings. My client owns a bridge over the R. Mersey in mid-west Britain. It spans the void between Runcorn and Widnes. Your name has been presented to me as a forward-thinking, thrusting, person. I can offer this bridge to you at v. reasonable cost. If you are interested, please email me: CEO.Wyness@evertonfc.com

chris taggart
6 Posted 10/08/2007 at 08:35:20

lee, i think you have made a very valid point, how is the loop an option as KEIOC would have you belive without a safety certificate

http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/faqs/faq009.php

in calculating the capacity the licencing authority will take into account

? The exit capacity ? which is the number of people who can safely exit the viewing accommodation under normal conditions
? The emergency evacuation capacity ? the emergency evacuation time will be set between 2.5 and 8 minutes based on a risk assessment of the viewing accommodation and its associated emergency evacuation routes. The emergency evacuation capacity is the number of people who can safely negotiate the emergency evacuation routes and reach a place of safety within that set time.

I feel that its close proximity to scotland road is a real threat to fans safety on match day ,

this is why its not a real "option"

look at the RS, they wil only be granted a safety certificate for anfields current capacity untill the transport infastructure is improved and even some arterial roads around man uniteds ground are closed by police on match day andthey aruably have the best stadium facilites in the country

will that section of scotland road and great homer st, be closed on matchday, i dont think so

people would have us belive that the loop is a real oprion yet when you try to point out possible flaws it quickly turns in to were not saying its viable just an option to explore, I am afraid you cannot have it both ways