Rodger, There is no plan B, the club are just being honest. No hidden agenda, just realistic.
Do you know why there is no plan B?...Because we have not got a massive financial backer, let alone a viable site..The KEIOC and the LCC have been shouting that there are alternatives since at least the turn of the year and still cant come upwith a site and financial package. A new stadium will not just materialise. KW was given a brief partly to find a way of moving to a new state of the art ground with very little if any investment.No-one will invest massive amounts of cash in a club who five years ago were perennial relegation strugglers and who have a ground that in a few years time will need major restructuring just to get a safety certificate.
Tesco will benefit, Everton will benefit massively. Whats wrong with that?

Rodger, There is no plan B, the club are just being honest. No hidden agenda, just realistic.
Do you know why there is no plan B?...Because we have not got a massive financial backer, let alone a viable site..The KEIOC and the LCC have been shouting that there are alternatives since at least the turn of the year and still cant come upwith a site and financial package. A new stadium will not just materialise. KW was given a brief partly to find a way of moving to a new state of the art ground with very little if any investment.No-one will invest massive amounts of cash in a club who five years ago were perennial relegation strugglers and who have a ground that in a few years time will need major restructuring just to get a safety certificate.
Tesco will benefit, Everton will benefit massively. Whats wrong with that?

’No plan B’ was a turn of phrase, man! He was trying to highlight his commitment to, and belief in, the Kirkby project.

Bad choice of words? Yes

Sinister motives? No







"The disdain they have shown to fans and their breathtaking arrogance"... What, by balloting the fans? Offering us all a say, the Definitive YES or NO to the project. It is now OUR choice.. personally I think that shows great understanding of the Everton ’family’ and a respect for our viewpoint, and not breathtaking arrogance or disdain as you think.

Your absolutely right when you say that the board have shown an arrogance towards the fans. Mr Keith Wyness thinks he can throw is weight around down here but he’s in for a rude awakening. The appearance of Tesco Terry at this late stage means only one thing to me. He has obviously realised that a "No" is on the horizon and is shit scared of ending up with a large amount of egg on his face after committing what will be wasted Tesco funds on exploring the Kirkby option. If this is not so then why didn’t we hear from him sooner? Why wasn’t his open letter included with the voting form?

The fact is Rodger a lot of fans don’t have any trust anymore for these jokers and who could blame them:

Kings Dock
Fortress
Rooney
Looking for investment 24/7
Ground move: "I don’t want to be the chairman to take Everton FC out of this city"
Transfers: "Absolutely definitely"

Can somebody please explain by way of corroborated ’market’ research and not just bloody assumptions where the extra 20,000 fans are going to come from to fill the ground? I’m all ears

My dear Anthony,

Where would we find the extra 20,000 fans to fill a Stadium that Everton built for 50,000 fans in the city of Liverpool?

It’s not locations that fill stadia it’s success and Everton need a new stadium to help achieve it.
By the way, judging by yesterdays gate, we wouldn’t need 20,000 fans to fill a 50,000 capacity stadium we would need 11,000!

I can remember watching Everton in the early eighties as a member of gates as low as 17,000.Then we got successful and 48 to 52,000 was the norm. It’s amazing where ’extra’ supporters can come from! Stop clutching at reactionary straws and try and appreciate that whether we like it or not the game has changed and if we want Everton to keep up we have to change too. Even if with heavy hearts, we have to vote ’yes’ to Kirkby or we will be forever in the doldrums...or worse.

Finally, slagging off everbody in sight is the final refuge of the scoundrel (not to mention potentially libelous)and usually indicates that any sensible argument has been lost.And they have. THERE ARE NO VIABLE, COSTED AND RESOURCED ALTERNATIVES TO KIRKBY. GOODISON CANNOT BE REDEVELOPED. THE LOOP IS A FRIGGIN’ ROUNDABOUT AND IS TOO SMALL ANYWAY. SPEKE IS AT THE OTHER END OF THE EFFING UNIVERSE (AND NOT EVEN TESCO COULD AFFORD TO BUY OUT THE EXISTING TENNANTS) AND AINTREE WAS WRITTEN OFF BY LCC NOT ONLY EVERTON AND TESCO!
For God’s sake one of these days all this may sink in somewhere...but that day may be too late and that is what scares me.

I think it’s highly unfair to say the board have treated the fans with disdain on the matter. Failed to provide enough facts, done a poor job of selling the move, not given us detail on why any alternatives are not realistic, all that might be fair argument.

But name me one other team whose fans have been given the opportunity for a vote on a stadium move? Bolton, Arsenal, Middlesboro, Sunderland, Leicester, Liverpool as well. Their owners were all happy to make the decision entirely on their own. On one level BK would have been perfectly within his rights to say "well, I own the majority shareholding in the club, I can make the decision". He hasn’t done that - we have a binding vote on the matter. We are *very* lucky to have that, and it’s far from treating the fans with disdain.

Anthony,
Glad to see at least at least one like minded soul. I did meet Mr Keith Wyness once, it was two years ago in the close season summer 2005 at a an EFC London Supporters Club do. I asked him if we would sign Arteta on a permament deal and he told me that with supreme confidence "I doubt it. Mikel is not as good a player as he thinks he is, and David Moyes thinks the same". Would you trust this man? As an aside, check out the pop up ad on the club website which shows the street sign Goodison Road L4 "City Of Liverpool". Ironic or what?

My dear Eileen, wash your mouth out with soap and water - what language coming from a lady!

Firstly, answering a question with another question IS indicative that all sensible argument has been lost. Could you please answer my question and also tell me the break-even average attendance required in the new stadium to sustain the revenue projections which faciliate providing the manager with an extra £10 million a season to spend on players. The fact is, you can’t which is why you’ve ignored answering my qeustion but maybe you could ask Bully Beef or Tesco Terry?

"Slagging everybody off in site and/or libellous comments?" - if you are referring to me, then what the hell are you talking about woman?

At this juncture we are talking about a stadium in Kirkby, raison d’etre = a mechanism to increase revenue via increased attendances in the order of 50,000. You have just holed the whole argument for it saying it’s not going to get filled. The day it will be too late is when the the gate is around 25000 and the club is playing in the lower divisons. This is classic cart before horse thinking and I’ll tell you some good reasons why a future stadium closer to the city has a better chance of getting a fuller capacity:
a) It would appear that the club will lose some core season ticket support by moving off to Kirkby. That’s not me just me suggesting it - read the TW poll and listen to the Radio Merseyside phone-ins. Go in the pubs around the ground, listen to what fans are saying
b) The greater potential to attract corporate patronage due to proximity to the city centre’s commerce
c) The ability to sustain future generations of support by being firmly anchored to it’s roots. I’m sorry but "the one club in Liverpool" jibe will be lasting and what self-respecting youngster (future fan) without the promptings of their parents is going to feel comfortable aligning their support to something which is perceived as outside the city?
d) The club is better placed to pick up floating support - tourists and visitors to the city centre. Capital Culture anybody - were moving away from a city on the up - fucking madness!


Well at least you’ll be able to say that Blue Bill gave you the vote. Of course, Blue Bill and Bully Beef will be long gone by that point but at least the tills will be ringing in the new Tesco Extra and Tesco Tel’s share options will be looking good

Finally a deep mistrust of the custodians of our club is not clutching at reactionary straws and I refer you to the points made above. Tell me one good reason why we should trust William Kenwright any further, the invisble man in all of this? Says everything you need to know. The reason for a ballot is so this worm has something to fall back on if it goes ahead and ultimately goes to shit "well I gave the fans the choice". Finally a sound business decision doesn’t need a frigging ballot. When Arsenal moved to the Ashburton Grove site did they ballot the their fans? They didn’t need to because moving it to sodding outer London wasn’t on the agenda. They had the sense to realise that moving miles away from Highbury would be self-inflicted suicide

Well said Mr Newell I agree with all that you have said also my ticket is bought on my credit card so if we move to a bigger stadium that we all know we wont fill why would I give myself interest payments when I could pay on the day I just find it amazing that there are still people who take kenwright at face value ,how many times dose he have to lie before these trusting people say enough is enough

Roy, I think trusting people will soon show enough is enough when the result comes in at the end of August. To me it’s a mandate on Kenwright as much as it’s a vote for a move. I will alway be grateful for Kenwright getting rid of that twat Johnson and his cronie Finch (who on describing Joe Royle at an ESCLA meeting some years back sounded very much like Wyness, Rodger). However, Kenwright has shown that he is out of his depth and out of touch

We just need to get real, stop wallowing in sentimentality and accept that there is no saving option being offered tro us witrhbin the city boundaries (and since when have Kirkbt, Bootle and Huyton not been considered to be liverpool??)

VOTE YES!

Barr Construction have an integrated design, steel manufacture and construction operation which makes huge savings on that figure. Tesco as the developer is forgoing the normal development profit on the construction of around £15 million, in addition to the contribution it is making directly. So if you went out to buy this stadium it would cost you £150 million.
In negotiation this is called I think perceived value.
It will cost Tesco nothing like this figure so get it out of your head that they are some kind of sugar daddy.
Also in his letter Mr Tesco states that any new investor would need to look at providing money for a new stadium on top of the money needed to buy the club, that didn;t stop the yanks moving in across the park.
He also talks about increased property value now methinks that this is why BK and KW are so keen.
When they do sell up the new stadium is worth £150m so we will have that thanks.
Trust the board you must be joking
Hitler was more honest than this lot,

Anthony, I DID answer your question by pointing out that 50,000 minus 39,000 is not 20,000. Accordingly your question was fallacious and deserved no better response than it got. Neither do I take lessons nor listen to advice from someone who believes that by giving 38,000 fans the FINAL say with a vote this is treating them (us) with arrogance. That is ridiculous. You may not agree with the Club’s view nor with mine but that does not mean your view is right.

What is right is that 50,000 minus 39,000 is 11,000.... not 20,000....surely you agree with that?!

Ok, again Eileen and for the final time and please stop being fucking pedantic with the numbers:

Can somebody please explain by way of corroborated ?market? research and not just bloody assumptions where the extra 20,000 fans are going to come from to fill the ground? I?m all ears

I don’t care whether you base your numbers on a friggin 50K or 55k seater ground. I would like some reasoned evidence as to where the shortfall is coming from. Your still avoiding the question because you still can’t answer it. I have never for one minute said that my view is right but if you feel the need for further persuasion go and read Colin Fitz’s article then maybe you won’t be one of the blind led by the blind