ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

The 22,000 Catchment

Right, Tesco's are going to get us a 55,000-seater ground for practically nothing,if you can believe that. Everton's average gate is 36,000. Okay, now what if maybe 3,000 will not go under any circumstances, that means we need to find 22,000 to fill this new ground to at least keep the prices at an acceptable level, and also to pay for any extras caused by add-ons like new roads etc, that's if we have to help to pay for any new transport system.

Firstly, Kirkby Evertonians; I think a large contingent of them already go to the match, after all, its only 6½ miles down the road. There are obviously kopites living there, also they have Kirkby Town FC. The population of Kirkby is approx. 44,000, so I don't think you will get many extra fans from there.

Skelmersdale; I presume you will get some fans from there, a few who don't already go maybe.

St Helens... a fanatical rugby league town. I play bowls there, and there are Evertonians there, but most of them already go.

Then there's Wigan, fanatical rugby league town with a Premier League side, but cannot fill their own ground.

Bolton? they cannot fill their ground either.

Widnes? rugby league town, but you could initially get a few going out of curiosity.

Runcorn to my mind could be split three ways: Blues, Kopites and Utd, but you could get a few, as it will be easier to get to.

A bit further east you have Warrington, a rugby league town.

Coming back along the Mersey(Royal Blue), there's Birkenhead,as we all know split three ways again. Further south there's Chester; I would say its mostly Man Utd, with sprinklings af Blues and Reds.

So, my friends, where are the 22,000 going to come from? Are Tesco's going to pressgang them in for us? After a year or two when the novelty has worn off, and we cannot afford the players that need, what then? As for Mr Wyness's up to £10 million for Mr Moyes, there are ten digits up to ten, nought is one of them!

I really hope it is a no vote for the sake of EFC because in a couple of years after we move, we could in all probability joining the Half Empty club presided over by Boro, Bolton, Wigan, and the rest that are in it. How sick would it get if the away crowd came and instead of singing "Who are you", it became "WHERE ARE YOU ALL?!?" Vote NO and lets progress in OUR CITY ? where we belong!!
Colin Potter, Wavertree Posted 12/08/2007 at 09:15:57

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Gavin
1 Posted 12/08/2007 at 13:50:48

"Vote NO and lets progress in OUR CITY ? where we belong!!"

I find it annoying that anti-kirby people bang on about keeping everton in the city (which we all want) but give NO details of how this will happen.

Where is the land we need?
Where is the extra money we currently get from tesco?
How long will this process take?
and on and on

YOU are putting everton’s future in jeopardy if you vote no simple as that.

Michael N
2 Posted 12/08/2007 at 13:48:27

Any would think we are moving 100 miles away.

Some of these other sites that have been mentioned are further away than that!

I thought it was 50,000 seater but i stand corrected if its 55,000. We dont fill Goodison out now because there are so many obstructed views, people don’t buy a ticket for this reason (you put up with it when the big boys are in town.

The visiting team doesnt always sell their allocation, another reduction.

The services (getting a pint for one) is an absolute joke.

Lastly we’ve won piss all for over 10 years yet we still get some of the best average attendances.

I know the move doenst equal success but its a step in the right direction. I think you’ll be surprised how close we will be to filling it.

Paul Gladwell
3 Posted 12/08/2007 at 11:23:53

A full house with our fans even filling the away section, but two blue patches stuck out in the main stand: the corporate lounges were half empty ? how does the club expect to fill the many lounges in our new pre-fab when we cannot fill the few we have now?

Don't blame the obstructed views as that is bullshit. We are a working-class club with allegedly the poorest fans in the country so it's going to take some coaxing by the Board to find these new rich supporters to join the ride.

Also, yesterday in the pubs and ground, I spoke to so many blues who are cut up about what is about to happen to the soul of the club. Men with 30+ years of season tickets are seriously talking of quitting or just going to the aways. And to those in the Yes corner who shout "these are not True Blues" then you're so wrong,

Just as you are when you say "don't be arsed about the stick off the kopites." Well, come the next derby, we could be Kirkby-bound so you just sit there next to them and laugh it off; I know it will kill me.

These bastards have torn our fanbase apart, is that how this most important issue in our history should be? The fact is the vast majority of us all are resigned to leaving Goodison ? a decision like this should be with the backing of the vast majority, not with the fanbase at each others throats.

Michael N
4 Posted 12/08/2007 at 13:57:56

I think you will find its not bullshit. The amount of people that moan like f%&k because there is only obstructed left. People that are not in the local area have second thoughts about driving to the ground, stumping up for a car park, TRY to get something to drink or eat inside the ground just look a bloody POST

Andy
5 Posted 12/08/2007 at 13:54:20

gavin

evertons future will NOT be in jeopardy if we stay at goodison for the time being

the land we need is on scotland road

i personally dont know how its going to be funded but lcc and bestway should be given time to do all the research for this project, then and only then can we rule out this site in stead of diving head first into a project that has completely divided the supporters.

do you really believe that a stadium has to be completely finished by 2010 for the club to survive because thats how the club are making it out to be

all im asking is delay the kirkby project for 6 months and allow lcc and bestway to do there work on scotland road, and if a stadium is proven not to be viable then kirkby it is.

Gavin
6 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:07:19

Is this the roundbaout plan? Its a joke, why would we want our stadium in the middle of a busy road network? Think of the pollution, noise, traffic and such. Its a daft plan mate.

Colin Potter
7 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:06:08

Gavin, very quick to criticise.I don’t mind you are quite entitled to,you have your opinion,but you never gave an inkling of an answer to the question,where will the extra 22,000 come from,becausse we will need them to survive.

Andy
8 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:09:40

gavin

bestway have said that a 48000 to 60000 thousand seater stadium can fit on that site and that they have plans in place about traffic infrastructure,

they have spent money doing this

why would they spend money on something that was’nt viable

don’t you think its in the interest of evertonfc and the city of liverpool that we look into this site rather than dismiss it out of hand.

we all want whats best for evertonfc

i just think regarding the stadium issue we need
’less speed, more haste’.

Marty B
9 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:01:18

Don?t know who you spoke to mate but everybody I spoke to has voted yes and they?re all working class lads and girls none of them were talking about quitting or just going to the aways.
I?m sick to the back teeth of these anti Kirkby gobshites you haven?t come up with 1 decent alternative don?t mention the loop site it?s a joke it?s just about big enough for Bettaware or whoever the hell they are and if you?ve driven past there at 4.30-6.30 any week day you?ll know what I mean about congestion .
You lot moaned about the Kings Dock you?d probably moan if LCC(Gobshites) offered us Walton Hall Park because it?s too far for you to weeble to the nearest pub!
I?ve waited all summer for KEIOC to come up with an alternative viable package but as soon as who?s going to pay for it gets asked you all waddle off into the distance with no answer,you?d rather waste money on a Sopwith Camel to fly around the ground!!
I?d love to stay in the city but until somecan can come up with a complete package like the one on offer please shut the fuck up !! and let?s concentrate on shouting for the team.
COME ON YOU BLUES!!

Gavin
10 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:18:06

I think you have a good point mate.

But i think we will do it because the transport infrastructure will be better, there will not be any obstructed views and the business side of the club will be enhanced by the new boxes and meeting rooms.

Andy
11 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:25:11

i understand why people want the move to kirkby and also why people don’t want the move

but what i will say is,the way wyness has gone about promoting the stadium is not the right way to do it,
scaremongering is a word that has been branded about recently and wyness is guilty of this

i just do not trust him one iota,but thats just my personal opinion and people have a right to agree or disagree.

waltonlad
12 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:31:18

Perform on the pitch and the ground will fill itself.

I wouldnt worry about who lives close all the big teams has full stadiums and people travel from all over to see them week in week out.

Gavin Harris
13 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:35:19

When is the result of the vote due?

Andy
14 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:39:36

next couple of weeks i think gav, its definately going to be a close vote.

Phil Bellis
15 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:37:43

Gavin, you’re asking us supporters these questions. You should be asking the people in charge if the club.

Tony Marsh
16 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:41:52

Spot on Colin lad spot on.

Andy
17 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:44:28

i’ve forgot to say the article is spot on and this is a major concern

well said colin

Gavin Ramejkis
18 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:40:39

Marty B just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t make them a gobshite. It doesn’t make any of your arguments worth reading if all you can do is blanket the no voters with name calling. The fact they have a vote makes it instantly obvious they are season ticket holders or share holders or both and thus spend just as much if not more in many cases as those eligible to vote that are voting yes. After the decision expect the ill feeling to remain between those polarised by this move which ever way it goes, something more damaging to the club than anything else.

Brian Finnigan
19 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:42:29

Gavin...if you cannot even spell Kirkby how are you going to find the Kirkby Rectangle which is going to be built in Knowsley if enough people fall for the spin from Bill, Terry, and Keith? Curly, Larry and Moe are more believable than these movers and shakers.

Brian Waring
20 Posted 12/08/2007 at 14:59:33

Gavin Ramejikis.One point you mention."After the decision expect the ill feeling to remain between those polarised by this move which ever way it goes.Something more damaging to the club than anything else"Totaly agree mate.This vote could split the fan base down the middle for many years to come.

Dan Parker
21 Posted 12/08/2007 at 16:32:37

It’s a bit naive to say Warrington is just a rugby league town. Whilst I’m from nearby Northwich originally, I’m both an Everton and Warrington fan (as was my Dad). Everton obviously comes first though! My brother is more a Warrington fan, doesn’t really support a football team and my other brother is a kopshite. Just shows you how it’s split accross the whole north-west, don’t think it’s one or the other in certain boundaries.

Tony Marsh
22 Posted 12/08/2007 at 16:26:26

Marty B you call us anti Kirkby lot Gobshites well you are a Gobshite for falling for this Kenwright Tesco ground move nonesense.No viable alternative has yet been found because the twats that run our club banned themselves from discussing it for
18 months.Now the exclusivity crap is over other ideas can be put forward.Dont know why your so eager to jump ship and go to Kirkby.Once gone thats it for many of us.It wont be the same club and we will be no more than a joke to the Redside of this city.Just this weekend I have had to listen to things like..Tranmere is our Derby game now they are nearest rivals,You dont have fans any more you have shelf Stackers,Tesco rovers buy a player from them and get one free,Free season tickets with your Tesco club cards. Soon they wont even bother with the stick.Out of sight out of mind.
Is this how you want it to all end?Like some joke club a Scouse MK dons who are the butt of the jokes across Merseyside.If its ok to move out there then its ok to change our nickname ,change our team colours,rip up our history and start again.We might as well class Preston N.E as our local rivals because the red half of Liverpool dont want to know.We will be dead.

Michael Kenrick
23 Posted 12/08/2007 at 16:46:48

Look, we don’t have many rules. Use your real name, don’t abuse other posters with name-calling, and above all, don’t call eachother redshites. Either you respect the access provided here or you will lose that access. Your choice.

Andy McKenzie
24 Posted 12/08/2007 at 16:46:09

i agree tony, most evertonians who live in and around liverpool simply cannot comprehend the amount of shite we have to put up with now, imagine when the stadiums built, and this is why so many people are against it.

those who do not live in around liverpool have no idea what this is like, you can say just ignore it but its not that simple.

Dan Parker
25 Posted 12/08/2007 at 17:59:14

Oh dear - "those who do not live in around liverpool have no idea what this is like, you can say just ignore it but its not that simple." Not that argument again.

Like I’ve said before, I have to put up with abuse from fans all other the place professionally at work - it’s not limited to just Liverpool fans!!

Please don’t try and compare one Everton fan against another or justify arguments in terms of locations. It just doesn’t fly..

There would be a lot of empty seats at Goodison if attendance was restricted to fans from within the city walls.....

Andy
26 Posted 12/08/2007 at 18:24:04

dan, i should of worded that a bit different, i should of said most evertonians i know,not the majority of evertonians in general, but as i said thats one of the reasons people i know don’t want to move,its not the main reason but one of them.

Tom Hughes
27 Posted 12/08/2007 at 20:05:49

Marty B:

Where’s the Wilmslow?
Out of town stadia is old hat mate. The yanks are knocking them down by the dozen to move downtown. There they are used as redevelopment Catalysts, There they benefit massively from the public transport hubs and networks...... This, as they found in the US can NEVER be matched at the edge of the city, with as many motorways as you want (its a logistical/demographical constant!) The public transport provision for Kirkby is only 3,000+ per hour max. Even Walton is nearer 30,000 per hr. The city centre copes with over 100,000 every rush hr (even with the big dig), with capacity for more than double that. So how people believe Kirkby is better than Scotty or Walton is beyond me.

magicjuan
28 Posted 12/08/2007 at 20:19:32

Marty B I am anti kirkby, so why does that make me a gobshite? I am not against kirkby cos it’s 4 miles away or outside the LCC boundary, the proposal doesn’t give enough solid information for me, it’s a huge gamble, so too is staying in the city, but I’d rather gamble here than somewhere from which there is no coming back. Who the hell you think you are calling me a gobshite for thinking like that? I am an Evertonian and as such believe I should get respect from other blues the way I do to them.
Jeez lad grow up !!

and by the way every single person I spoke to at the match yesterday had voted No for various reasons

Steve S
29 Posted 12/08/2007 at 21:00:05

"And remember, Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.... that applies to your stadium."

Do the "yes" voters actually like the look of the new stadium?

Andy
30 Posted 12/08/2007 at 21:10:04

well said tom hughes, if there was any proof why kirkby wont work tom hughes sums it up perfectly, out of town stadiums dont work

Tony Miller
31 Posted 12/08/2007 at 21:59:44

Andy- what Tom says would be spot on if the Kirkby site was an out of town project. But is actually a downtown project, to compare the make-up of cities,towns in the USA and the UK is like comparing chalk and cheese

Anthony Newell
32 Posted 12/08/2007 at 22:17:56

Well said Paul Gladwell, thank christ there are people out there who can see sense

col
33 Posted 12/08/2007 at 23:43:32

Kirby is a no-brainer. A £150m stadium for £35m, it’s just end of argument.

But the real deal is the bye-bye to Liverpool City Council. These are the people who have done handstands to accommodate LFC and done nothing for the oldest football club in the city. It beggars belief that they have agreed to plough up acres of precious green space, bear in mind these are LIBDEMS forever lecturing us about conservation, makes you want to throw up.

And how much are they charging LFC for leasing the green space? An annual rental of less than half of Steven Gerrard’s weekly wage. If we were living in a third world country the words graft and corruption would be rife.

Who would you rather trust? LCC or Tesco and Knowley Council?

jayharris
34 Posted 13/08/2007 at 00:28:23

Can I just correct you Col.It was LCC who did offer us the deal of the Century - Kings Dock for 30mill until Billy Liar made complete fools of them and us by reneging at the last minute.I can never forgive that man for all the lies and deceit and will definitely vote no to Kirby only because I do not trust this regime with an issue as important as this.

vin blue
35 Posted 13/08/2007 at 08:08:47

Jay - listen to Tesco Terry then. He knows what he is talking about. Read his letter.
Yet again (yawn) about the city boundary - EFC moved to Goodison when it was outside the city boundary. The boundaries are likely to change again within five years. Get over it!

David Torley
36 Posted 13/08/2007 at 08:55:38

I will come more often to Kirkby than Goodison. Why?

I’m an ex-pat living in Newcastle and I often can’t get a ticket at all for the big games and even for smaller clubs I’m often faced with paying £40 to sit behind a pillar. This is on top of the £50 petrol costs.

In addition, I’m 6’5" and barely fit into the seats at Goodison and probably spoil the game for the poor bastards sat in front, behind and either side of me.

I’ve never bought a pint or food inside the ground due to the ridiculous queues so EFC lose this revenue too.

I love Goodison. I still get tears in my eyes when Z-Cars starts up. But I love Everton Football Club more and if they are in Kirkby, so am I.