Just looking at the bestway stadium i see thay are going to build a hotel and tower on top of kingsway loop rd tunnel that thay will have to build at what cost (100 200 mill). Evertonians are not stupid

Where is the merit of flogging this dead horse?? I credit the TW crew with more nouse than giving this red herring proposal the profile you have. Is there a vendetta against the EFC Board?? If so, best not mess about with the future of the club (by using these underhand tactics to influence the vote) because you are unhappy with BK et al for their past mistakes. If it is genuine, I credited you with more sense...more fool me!

Oddly this proposal has put the nail in the Loop coffin for me - not the desired response I guess.

2 key issues not dealt with for good reason I bet:
1 - funding
2- limited to 50 000.

I don’t see how the capacity can get to 60 000 from this. So its a non starter. Thanks for the effort though. I just hope you haven’t rewarded us with another 20 years in GP.

Think KEIOC should be KEBOP - Keep Everton By Our Pubs

Jesus wept.....they look frigging ridiculous - as if KEIOC hadn’t shot themselves in the foot enough!

More straw-clutching by the KEIOC, they’re a joke.

Lets be serious here... Pretty picture yes... But could you please tell me cost and who is going to pick up the tab. Any reasonable person knows that our only option for the future is Kirkby. Vote against it and you are essentially asking for Everton to eventually be in the Championship.

p.s. Credit to the board for having a vote, whatever your opinion.

Could this be the end for KEIOC? I fuckin hope so! im sick of this gang of amateurs potentially destroying our only chance of ever leaving GP.

Andy, I have just deleted a rant at you....I’m having a bad day and you were about to bare the brunt of my bad day. Now I don’t have to apologise for it here I go....Just a couple of points I would like answers to from the Yes voters. I’m in the no camp in case you hadn’t guessed.
Why is Kirkby the place to be?
Why isn’t there any other deliverable site in the city?
Can the club prove there is no other deliverable site in the city at this time? Can you prove there isn’t? Would you rather stay in the city? Wouldn’t you want to have all the information that’s required before making your vote? Do you want to move to Kirkby regardless? Show me how the figures released by the club add up...my math is bad and I just don’t get the same outcome as the club. Can you help me? Can anyone help me with the math bit? Logic suggests that a City centre location would add "prestige" to a development. Would enable the club to increase it’s commmercial activity prices, command bigger advertising deals. Can you prove that this would happen in Kirkby? My logic for this question lies in the fact that they are building that arena on the kings dock. It would obviously be cheaper to build in Kirkby so why didn’t they????
I guess you’ve already voted. You can’t change that and neither can I. I’m trying to understand the yes vote. Not Change your mind.

I also know that at this time there is no financial package or business plan put forward by any parties. This doesn’t mean there isn’t one does it? I also believe that one is being developed at the moment. Wouldn’t you like to see it? If not, Why not?

My view is simple. There are alternatives, they have to be explored. I wasn’t given enough viable information to vote Yes. So my vote is NO!

I sat next to the someone claiming to be the treasurer of KEIOC at the Wigan game. If I’d met them before I voted no, I would have changed my mind.

They’re a bunch of moaning old gits who have not got a clue and will not listen to anyone’s opinion.

They even questioned whether Blues from outside of Liverpool should have a vote, and I quote "It’s idiots like that who will send us to Kirkby".

As far as I’m concerned, people turning up and paying to watch EFC have just as much as a right to voice their opinion as people who live in Gwladys Street.

These plans today show what a total cowboy operation they are. Dodgy plans, pointless aeroplanes....they still can’t answer where is their money coming from!!??

Dean, unfortunately this is what certain fans are up against.

I’m from Walton but circumstances made me move to Carlisle does that mean that I shouldn’t get a vote? I’ve asked this question to various people who have said that people living outside of Liverpool should not have a vote and the only answer I ever get is:

"No Everton fan in Liverpool want us to move outside of the City - Fact."

Unfortunately it’s not fact, as I’ve spoken to many fans in the city and it’s definitely split.

You cannot prove anything by saying fact at the end of it, unless you can back it up with hard facts, which KEIOC can never seem to do.

John i was actually saying i didnt want to leave GP and wanted to spend the money on players instead. I do want to stay within the city of course i do at the moment I havent seen anything to suggest it can ever be done.
THE only reason i am in the yes camp is because i believe that LCC can come up with better. They stated that they were not prepared to give us council tax payers land etc and i beleive that by continuing in negotiations with tesco/knowsley they may wake up and offer us maybe free land or other alternantives etc. I honestly beleive that if we vote no, LCC, Bestway and KEIOC will suddenly disappear having won the vote. Lets face it, the vote whipped them into action and i beleive there will be more to follow.

Not one argument for NO has ever come up with any proposal of how we can pay for going to any other site.

Well said Andy. On top of everything else, which psychopath would choose to put his head down for the night in a hotel which to all intents and purposes is in the middle of a busy roundabout ? I have always been unimpressed by this idea ( never more so than when someone came up with the idea of turning the design into a cheesy blue heart) but this presentation- with its ’iconic’ tower for God’s sake !- turns the whole idea into a laughing stock. Sorry to say it- I know there are a lot of committed Blues behind this and not just pub owners, Andy-but this nonsense must not be permitted to delay the putting into effect of a rational sound business plan.

Its funny how quick your are Andy at spotting flaws on every thing except Kirkby.No matter what plan or suggestion the great Andy knows better,Alas I am only human and prefer to wait to hear what the rest of the information costings ect before deciding We all know Kirkby is full of bull-shite the costing and so called free or is now fifty million pounds and the fact that its already been shown that we wont make this magical profit and will still be in debt more so than now in a stadium we cant fill, maybe this ones as bad but like with Kirkby Ill wait and see for myself people like your self and Tony Marsh on the other point of view should really have more faith in the fans we can all recognize the bull but when you take it the level of abuse and belittling peoples attempts please remember when this is finally decided we have to let it rest and join together to support the team as for or against we all want whats best for Everton not the pubs,not Kenwright and not ourselves

Shit design. Shit location.

Bring on Kirkby!

I asked Warren Bradley whether the council were putting any money into the projects he is coming up with and why, suddenly now, he has reared his ugly head, when he’s said nothing for 18 months.

His only reply was,
"Don’t believe the propoganda."
Well I’m sorry Warren we want facts and figures not fancy pictures and that goes for all options including Kirkby.

Roy- if someone had come up with a decent suggestion then i wouldnt be belittling it and i know KEIOC is not just pub landlords. Kirkby isnt perfect either (for example the peoples club logos are a joke) but it seems to make business sense. Ans read my other replies, i only think voting yes will make LCC come up with better suggestions for sites. Look we cannot do this alone that is clear, we need sites big enough for tescos or bestway or whoever is gonna help.

I would watch everton on the moon if i had to, the geography for me is not important.

A quote from the Torn Between Home and the Great Blue Yonder piece in the guardian and now on the KEIOC website:
"The club is promoting it on realities".

People are really clutching at straws if anyone thinks a roundabout is a good place for a stadium, and the hotel to help finance it covers a road.

Why do automatically assume that we NO voters are doing so because of what KEIOC is or is not doing.My decision to vote no has nothing to do with Loops or keioc.
For a start there are those of us who dont want to move away from a thriving city and our natural fan base.There are those of us who dont trust the board to do the right thing.Kings Dock and everything Wyness touches spring to mind.There are those of us that/>have more sense as to believe what BK and Terry Tesco are telling us.[read colin fitz]. />There are those of us who fully understand Goodison Park will not be redeveloped and who dont pay much attention to the Loop story as it stands at the moment.I dont have all the answers.None of us knows whats going on with the Kirby deal only what shit we get fed by the board.So your answer is just vote yes anyway because its the only option we have.Very clever solution to our problems that is.
Please leave KEIOC out of it when reffering to the NO voters.Most of us were oppossed to the move to Kirkby before KEIOC sprung up.
What your telling us is that a multi national company like Tescos is prepared to give money and land away and waive construction costs to build us a new stadium just because the chairman supports Everton.Do me a favour.Like I said earlier how many of you yes men would be as keen on this move if Terry was a Kopite?Not too many me thinks.

Have you even read Terry Leahy’s open letter?

He clearly states that obviously there would be money in it for Tesco’s they aren’t going to do it for free.

The design ( and it is not a design, just a footprint ) proves that a stadium can fit on the site. THAT IS ALL. However, it also shows there are alternatives to Kirkby. We have not been given enough time to look at all proposals. Bestway cannot just produce a detailed plan in a month, but they will in the next couple of months. What is the problem waiting another couple of months... for Everton FC and Evertonians we owe it to ourselves and our children. For Knowsley and Tesco... if that option is so good ( which under proper scrutiny is highly debatable ) then why cant they wait for others to give an alternative in a few months... they have been working on their proposal for nearly 2 years.

Fools rush in...

IMHO most have already decided on the votes weeks ago so these new proposals will have no effect whatsoever, IYSWIM.
The monstrous images had me LMAO. The fact that these proposal have come so late is a CFD.
FWIW the councils ack of action has been a disgrace. At least with tescos WYSIWYG, IYSWIM.
FWIW we should get behind the club whatever its decision. AFAIK most fans would agree with this viewpoint, except the odd one here. LOL.

TIA

JS

I guess it shows that its possible to fit a stadium in it (in principle), something Wyness said that wasnt possible - and you have to admit there is a good potential for commercial partners and all that, I think the design looks a bit crap but it definitely has more to it than the kirkby shed, plus it is an early concept that may lead to a better design if they are using architects (not builders)
Finally - where is the money you may ask? Simple. You cannot deny that these days Premierleague football = MONEY, Investment, Commercial Packages, Advertisement, etc, etc all on an International scale.
If we havent got it yet it will be just around the corner and a corner of Liverpool City Centre is worth waiting a bit longer for despite the bullshit coming from Wyshite.
Vote NO. I have and it feels great!

what the hell did Jake Stevens just say?

People who ask where the money is coming from have a good point. But, cast your minds back to the early 80s and remember that Liverpool city centre in those days was a God forsaken hole with rotting docks, burnt out buildings and boarded up flats. Seeds of regeneration came through the International Garden Festival, Albert Dock etc and these days its hard to remember just how bad it was.

Companies invested in Albert Dock, Liverpool 1 and all the other projects because of the location. For all the problems, Liverpool is a world famous city with a world famous culture... in our homogenised world that is an attractive quality. Dont think that investors in a new Stadium are not out there. They are. And they will invest if the scheme is right. Only a supermarket could find any appeal in downtown Kirkby, but city centre sites attract more interest. We have to see what comes forward before we can decide.

Get yourself an education PL PL...

Ohh yeah, I love flamin Lamers !!

Tony, it is precisely because Mr Terry Tesco is one of US that his hand on the tiller of this proposed Kirkby development instils a degree of confidence. While too many people are prepared to label fellow Evertonians as "traitors" and "fools", plenty of us saner Blues find it quite natural to trust one of our own and eschew any idea he’d knowingly sell us down the river.

Moreover, you?re trying to flog the idea that Mr TT must be lying because surely no commercial interest would give something away. Well, I?m sorry, but this does happen, every day. Companies commonly dispense largesse if there is a perceived medium or long term return to be had. It?s sound business sense.

Just as some football clubs get into bed with hotels and shopping malls to help them fund stadium construction, so then it?s quite natural that a commercial concern would be prepared to ?sponsor? stadium construction if it meant they were more likely to be given the go ahead for their £400m, 80 acre development (of which EFC would occupy less than 10%). Ever heard of a two-way street? And when one is talking of forming an association with the finest, grandest football club the world has ever known, what company wouldn?t jump at the chance to help us build us a new home?!

Plus if there’s a Tesco near to the ground or on the stadium complex then that is where their interest is coming from.

How can someone say "shit location", "shit design" about the initial Loop images...Then say "bring on Kirkby"?

Why dont people wait to see what finances can be arranged for alternatives before we head out of our city forever!

Stop swollowing this bull shit and open your eyes. Kirkby is not free it will cost us. The proposed stadium in Kirkby is dull...in fact it could by anyone’s home stadium.

You would never look at that stadium with any pride...why are people settling for second best. i hate this "It will do" mentatlity. Let’s do something right for the first time in a long while and look at all alternatives in the same light.

Jake Stevens - U still on RTE2?

Are we signing Riquelme??

I used to work on the advertising for one of Merseyside’s most fmaous financial institutions. When my London-based boss wanted to come up North and treat the clients to a corporate football experience, you won’t be surprised to hear he chose Anfield as the venue (I got out of going).

With a trendier team and better facilities, a second outing to Goodison might have happened. Going to a brand new stadium in Liverpool would definitely have been an attraction. But what would NEVER have been on would have been us all heading out to Kirkby. The idea would just have been laughed at.

Why? Because corporate customers aren’t necessarily committed fans, or fans at all. They want convenience, a bit of glamour, a trendy nearby bar or restaurant to move on to afterwards. By moving out of the city we WILL be kissing goodbye to a huge part of that market. Even the club seems to realise that - that’s why the Kirkby design still only has a relatively low number of boxes. I really doubt it would fill even that number, unless we were massively successful. And the logic of the move is that we need to fill these boxes and these lounges to generate the money to buy that success. Chickens and eggs, anyone?

Now, you may say ’Good riddance to the prawn sandwich munchers’. But the whole thing about this move, we are told, is that it makes ’business sense’.

Not from where I’m sitting, it doesn’t.

Chris Jones defending the honour of the whiter than white YES voters.None of you are name callers then? Here are just a few quotes from todays posts from Everton fans who are yes men.Gerard Madden refering to KEIOC Frigging Ridiculos. Steve Claringbold,They are a joke.Andy Baker,Sick of fucking amatuers. Matt, Shit design shit location.>Regardless of how you feel about the ground move the KEIOC people are all Evertonians who are struggling to run a campaign on a shoestring.They are fighting for a cause they believe in that determines the future of the cluband all you lot can do is ridicule them. You were all up in arms earlier in the week when I had a pop at the yes voters in an article and yet here you are doing it yourselves.It looks like you can give it but out but cant take it to me.Vote yes if you must but do but have a little respect for people who are actually making an effort in all this nonesense.

Why?

Where are you sitting?

Seamus Murphy
(ahh, sure thats a fine spud pickin name!!)

By RTE2, if thats a euphemism for benzedrine, then yeas im still on RTE2!!

Yeah PL PL i heard that Arteta and Riquelme are great mates so theyre might be some truth in it. Apparantly Arteta’s cousin is married to Gabriel Heinze, who was Riquelme’s best man at his wedding.

So heres hoping....

Chris Jones (Wakefield).....What are you talking about?...."trust Terry, he is one of US." Remind me, if you would, who was it we trusted for the King’s Dock? Wasn’t he also "one of US?" let,s start acting like grown-ups and stop this insular, parochial nonesense....trust people by what they do and not what they claim to be. Everton should be sufficiently mature, after all these years, to be willing to have a sensible dialogue with "outsiders". You make us sound like some barmy sect!

For Christ’s sake Toffeweb stop giving these bloody KEIOC pranksters print space - its just a time wasting project/offer and as I said last week who’s going to pay for it if and when our incompetent bunch of councillors ever get to agree to it.

Face facts Kirkby is our ownly way out of the mess we are in financially - Tesco & Kirkby whatever you argue about the maths are in fact SUPPPORTING US - no other bugger is

Are you people so dunb.The pictures are there to prove a point .To show what can be achieved in a specific area.Im not fussed on it either but it shows how an alternative can fit in.Whining about bridges etc .they,re piss easy to build,roads piss easy to build.Underground car parks.Piss easy to build.Funding is the issue and keioc should be giving us at least some preliminarry figures to go with the pretty pictures.
I understand Keioc’s problem here cos they’ve had to work quickly to show an alternative to Kirkby as theyre terrified of a yes vote.And there lies the problem.The no camp has been given little time to prepare there case,the yes brigade are 18 months ahead.
The yes men are so desperate to keep up with the big teams they want it now and the no are an irritant to their dreams,Holding everything up.These same people would move anywhere,St Helens,Wigan,Southport,The wirral as long as they can have what they want.Now.!!!!.They will succomb to anything our board presents to them.The word Fickell comes to mind.
Id bet money the majority of fans voting yes to Kirkby do not live in liverpool.Id love to see the voting statistics on this.Id also put money on the no voters majority coming from the city of Liverpool.
We will find out eventually im sure via the electoral reform society.They should be available to the public for all eyes to see.Then we will know if the woolyback out of towner won to put us in Kirkby without allowing us to explore any other alternative options.
This will cause absolute murder and will devide us fans like never before.Trouble is brewing here im sure you can all feel it.
Remember our board knew this would happen and knew how we would react.Thats why Bill has been quiet as a mouse all summer.Its probanly a done deal already he just wanted us to argue amongst ourselves.He was right.
Another point before i go.These fans who want figures for the bestway site.What about the figures for Kirkby.Everton or Tesco havent show us what income will come into the club.Ten mill a year was bandied by kw,so what.Or what buisnesses will come with us down the lancs to a toy town with 40 thousand people in when it will only be busy once a fortnight .Why would they do that when you have access to a potential half million people close to the city center.Utter madness isnt it.
Im a no sorry because logistically Kirkby is piss poor.The loop is commercially brilliant.And its closer to our rounhouse in the heart of Everton and because people believe it is possible,Bestway, Lcc,and others.Ibelieve it too.
Vote yes and we wiil be damned.your selling your soul.NOTHING SATISFIES BUT THE BEST.,Kirkby is not the best and you all know it deep down wether you want to admit it to yourselves just yet but you will.Remember you put the nail in.

Warren Bradley’s take on Everton’s stance is as follows:

My First Email to Warren Bradley

>Mr Bradley,
>
>Why don’t you stop getting involved in Everton FC business?
>
>First of all Goodison Park redevelopment is unfeasible and would cost a
>fortune.
>
>Secondly the Bestway site is unworkable however you tart it up wit fancy
>pictures etc, the site just won’t work.
>
>Is the council going to stump up some cash to build these stadiums?
>
>Your motives are questionable.
>
>Brian Wolf.

Mr Bradley?s response:

>Mr Wolf,
>
>Thank you for your professional opinion, can I suggest you stop believing
>the propaganda coming from club, and have an open mind - in that other
>schemes are deliverable, not my words but that of professionals in all
>fields!
>
>Regards as always, and committed to keeping Everton in the City of
>Liverpool.
>
>
>Warren Bradley
>Leader of Liverpool City Council

My second email to Warren Bradley

Mr Bradley,

You fail to mention where the money is coming from, we as fans want figures
not fancy images.

Mr Wolf.

Mr Bradley?s response:
Mr Wolf,

You have a clear inability to understand process, first and foremost formal talks have to take place, until Everton FC agree to this, how can one second guess anything.

You, I believe have an entree into the club, maybe you could facilitate this.


Warren Bradley
Leader of Liverpool City Council

Lets just build a spaceship stadium hovering abover Goodison a 50 feet. 125,000 all seater. Best in the country.

It would only cost about 200 billion quid and we don’t have any to pay for it but Nil Satis Nisi Optimum right?

YES TO FLOATING SPACESHIP! NO TO KIRBY!

Mr Bradley speaks sense! Just becasue Keith Wyness says sites ’aren’t deliverable’ doesn’t mean it’s so.

Log on to Google Earth.Bring up Goodison. Pull back a bit until the Loop comes into view. Compare the size of Goodison with the schematic of the Loopy Oval. It would be a tight fit to get Goodison on this roundabout never mind a 50,000 seater stadium and a hotel. I suspect a con here!

By the way Wheres Fernandez got to??????

There’s been a lot of talk of him having a medical today Tony, don’t know how kosher that is though.

There was something on the ic.liverpool website saying he’d be signed by tomorrow and in the team for the Reading match.

It’s certainly one of the most long winded transfer deals for a while.

Chris Jones (Wakefield)...I missed this direct quote of yours....

"And when one is talking of forming an association with the finest, grandest football club the world has ever known, what company wouldn’t jump at the chance to help us build us a new home?"

You are stating that there should be many suitors out there waiting to jump at the chance to help us. I agree with you! However, I would suggest that we have not seen them (with the exception of Bestways) because of the exclusivity agreement and the fact that our Chairman only deals with mates, Evertonians and those that allow him to keep the train set. Considering the attractiveness of the Premier League nowadays, our leader’s efforts 24/7 should have unearthed many people willing to help us.

It looks like its based on the Thunderbird 3 enclosure on tracy island...Where do these architects come from?

If it’s based on Tracy Island, I for one would love to see Anthea Turner involved in the project.

Sadly I always believed that Evertonians were a different breed, questioning, intelligent, open minded. I was wrong.

It seems people are happy to accept a proposal to move the club to a retail park in another town with no costings, no forecasts of additional profits, no drawings of the site.

And to top it off they spew bile about their fellow fans who are investing their time, effort and money in finding Everton a better deal. Will this enrich them, no, they are doing it purely out of love for the club.

This whole process has opened up a rift a mile wide between Evertonians. I cannot understand on the basis of the information how anyone could even think about voting Yes. To be honest I think if you vote Yes you misunderstand what we are being offered.

Clearly a lot of people regard attitudes like that as luddite but how people can critisise OUR fans for trying to get a better deal for EVERYONE amazes me.

Hugo said: "Corporate customers aren?t necessarily committed fans, or fans at all. They want convenience, a bit of glamour, a trendy nearby bar or restaurant to move on to afterwards. By moving out of the city we WILL be kissing goodbye to a huge part of that market. Even the club seems to realise that - that?s why the Kirkby design still only has a relatively low number of boxes. I really doubt it would fill even that number, unless we were massively successful. And the logic of the move is that we need to fill these boxes and these lounges to generate the money to buy that success..."

1. It’s debateable whether Everton will ever have the cache of Liverpool et al when it comes to corporate stuff. If there aren’t many boxes being designed into Kirkby it is no doubt due to surveys undertaken that suggest that our current fan base has insignificant demand for it.

2. No-one is telling me that the area around Stanley Park is currently an attractive place that just invites corporate business?!

3. Similar to clubs like Barcelona, Liverpool FC have a fan base (inc. the corporates) that will go and watch them anywhere. If Liverpool moved to Kirkby they would have no problem continuing to attract the corporate business as it is the glamour and brand that they have, not the location. Everton do not have this, and may never have this.
I don’t remember seeing The Nou Camp on the beach incidentally.

4. As for convenience, another 10mins in a cab would make ALL the difference, wouldn’t it?!

5. I’m sure many would prefer a glamourous Kings Dock type location, but why would any businessman put a football club on the most expensive land in a city?
A football stadium gets used once or twice every 2 weeks at the most, and then not at all for a quarter of the year. Logically, they BELONG outside of city centres, in my humble opinion of course!

For the record, I think the club have made a mistake in the way they have offered this ’vote’ (where it is a vote for Kirkby or nothing!) and the manner that it is leaving fans feeling rail-roaded into Kirkby that generates the paranoia.
If they had only given us the choice of 2 other options, however unworkable, it may well have avoided a lot of the mistrust there understandably is for Kirkby.

Tony, Fernandes got on the wrong plane and ended up in Manchester. Sven spotted him walking around the streets, lost. So Sven signed him up for the foreign legion. The United Nations are well proud!!!

Andy if I thought for one minute that a yes vote was not a definate move to Kirkby I could understand that ,but with the club stance of no plan B means if they get the vote it will be Kirkby,Now to be honest untill some one of anyside comes up with figures that are good and not just figures plucked out the air then tailored to suit I wont vote for any its not that I hate Kirkby I honestly feel we deserve better.

Why on earth are some people incapable of absorbing what another person has ACTUALLY written?

Tony Marsh, nowhere do I set out to defend ?the honour of the whiter than white YES voters?.

What I actually said was ?While too many people are prepared to label fellow Evertonians as "traitors" and "fools", plenty of us saner Blues find it quite natural to trust one of our own and eschew any idea he?d knowingly sell us down the river.?

I don?t even purport to support the ?Yes? vote, I merely explain why it is that some people are prepared to give a fellow Blue a fair hearing because, let?s face it, they are less likely to deliberately sell us out than someone who belongs, say, to he dark side. That?s all.

And before anyone twists these latest words of mine, re-read them. Don?t impute anything which is not there.

Brian Finnigan, you ask ?What are you talking about?...."trust Terry, he is one of US."?.

Well, apart from being an inaccurate paraphrasing of what I?d written (I referred to the fact that because it?s ?one of US? at the helm of this Tesco development, it ?instils a degree of confidence?).

And I re-iterate Brian, I went on to state it?s natural (it may be naïve, but it?s natural) for one Blue to start out being prepared to trust another. We?re all on the same side aren?t we FFS?

I mean, if we accept he is to blame for the Kings Dock failure, does anyone really believe BK wilfully set out to make a balls of it? Of course he didn?t. He may have fooked up but I bet he was just as disappointed at the outcome as the rest of us.

Get real. For goodness sake read what people write. If you can?t do that then there?s no way you can have a meaningful dialogue, because once people realise you can?t or won?t understand another?s point of view ? even a neutral one FFS ? well really what?s the point in talking to you?!

For the record I am 100% undecided on the Kirkby question. I ain?t got a clue what?s to do for the best. I just pray whichever way things go it turns out for the best.

Chris Jones (Wakefield)....."For goodness sake read what people write." is your latest offering....

I did the first time when you wrote "saner Blues find it quite natural to trust one of our own" and I paraphrased it into "trust Terry, he is one of US" I am quite happy to acknowledge that I changed your exact words first time around and I am happy to show the exact words you used now.

The thrust of both my postings I stand by completely. Terry Leahy’s main concern is the well-being of Tesco. My main concern is the well-being of Everton. Because Kirkby suits Tesco does not necessarily mean that it suits Everton and I am not naive enough to be impressed with the fact that the boss of Tesco is a Blue. Finally, do not use F.F.S. even in your moments of exasperation. Follow my lead....I never get flustered.

Hey - I just thought of a brilliant idea .

Why don’t we move back to Anfield !!!!