The Mail Bag
Mechanics of the Vote
Comments (17)
Couple of questions about the mechanics of the Kirkby vote:
- What happens if neither camp hit the magical 51%? eg 49% no, 48% yes, 3% undecided unreturned.
- Does the club have access to the current state of the vote? ie, Do they know if they're winning so far or not?
Ryan Crest, Posted 21/08/2007 at 13:40:54
Comments
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Richard Porter
2 Posted 21/08/2007 at 16:46:05
2 Posted 21/08/2007 at 16:46:05
Standard practcie for a vote is unreturned ballots don’t count, surely? if there are only two options, someone will get the majority of valid votes. Unless it is precisely 50-50. Undecided or none of the above weren’t options
Barry Kingham
3 Posted 21/08/2007 at 16:46:35
3 Posted 21/08/2007 at 16:46:35
Ryan,
There wasn’t much said about this, but I think that the final result will be the result of the total votes cast.
There has been nothing said about the validity of the vote if the turnout is low - for example that there would need to be a 60%+ turnout to make the vote valid, which is the case in certain national referenda. However a low turnout would be unlikely given the amount of interest in this vote.
Therefore the whole thing is just a simple ballot and the majority opinion from the votes cast will stand.
There wasn’t much said about this, but I think that the final result will be the result of the total votes cast.
There has been nothing said about the validity of the vote if the turnout is low - for example that there would need to be a 60%+ turnout to make the vote valid, which is the case in certain national referenda. However a low turnout would be unlikely given the amount of interest in this vote.
Therefore the whole thing is just a simple ballot and the majority opinion from the votes cast will stand.
Frank Vincento
4 Posted 21/08/2007 at 16:55:31
4 Posted 21/08/2007 at 16:55:31
I don’t think that Everton would have access to the current state of the vote - the reason is that I had a phone call from Everton on Friday asking me which was I voted (like an exit poll).
The Electral Reform Society wouldn’t allow them access so I think that Everton are doing their own private polling.
The Electral Reform Society wouldn’t allow them access so I think that Everton are doing their own private polling.
Tom Hughes
5 Posted 21/08/2007 at 16:49:28
5 Posted 21/08/2007 at 16:49:28
The club can access how the ballot is going at regular intervals apparently. A few days ago I believe the club said that so far, upto that point it was 52% in favour. Given that there was a constant barrage of pro-kirkby articles in the local press upto that point, perhaps it wasn’t going too well prior to that. Final count is on Thursday, I believe.
Barry Lightfoot
6 Posted 21/08/2007 at 17:59:37
6 Posted 21/08/2007 at 17:59:37
Not only do you know that the club can access the vote you also know that "up to that point it was 52% in favour"
That sounds like a load of tosh to influence the no vote, well I heard it was 60% against. Are there any other bidders out.
That sounds like a load of tosh to influence the no vote, well I heard it was 60% against. Are there any other bidders out.
John Fowler
7 Posted 21/08/2007 at 18:07:32
7 Posted 21/08/2007 at 18:07:32
I remember the club said they’d announce the results before the Blackburn game on Saturday.
Tom Hughes
8 Posted 21/08/2007 at 18:04:29
8 Posted 21/08/2007 at 18:04:29
BL:I suggest you call Ian Ross or ERS, and ask him/them if the club can request updates...... you can then ask him what the score is so far (I’ve heard it’s even more of a yes percentage today). No big deal, and not sure how it would influence any vote, surely you vote based on your opinion of what’s on offer? Hope this helps!
Brian Finnigan
9 Posted 21/08/2007 at 23:03:47
9 Posted 21/08/2007 at 23:03:47
We have been told by the Club mouthpieces that the alternative to Kirkby is (a)stagnation, (b)failure to obtain a safety certificate in the near future, (c)likelihood of lower league football, etc. Despite this scaremongering, apparently 48% of the electorate canvassed at some stage this week were in favour of this oblivion-option.
If the Club do achieve the majority they seek, what sort of a victory will it be if such a large number of supporters reject the proposal despite the constant wave of propaganda they have faced during the past few weeks. A victory that loses the support of almost half the electorate is a victory that is not worth having, unless you are dim or desperate.
If the Club do achieve the majority they seek, what sort of a victory will it be if such a large number of supporters reject the proposal despite the constant wave of propaganda they have faced during the past few weeks. A victory that loses the support of almost half the electorate is a victory that is not worth having, unless you are dim or desperate.
Jim Lloyd
10 Posted 22/08/2007 at 00:11:02
10 Posted 22/08/2007 at 00:11:02
Ther cannot be any percentage of undecided. There is only a yes or no box on the ballot paper, therefore there will be a majority to either go or stay. Whatever happens, it is looking increasingly likely that Evertonians will be split almost in two.
You ask that there be no conjecture, so I will try my best to use logic. If the majority are in favour of moving to Kirkby, then almost half of all Evertonians who vote will have to make a decision whether to follow Everton out of this city or not.
My own view, as a No voter, is that this proposal will mean a disaster for us in the long term. Only time will tell who is right.If the vote goes against the proposal, then according to Mr Kenwright, there is no alternative so we are up the creek without a paddle.
If this wasn’t so bloody tragic, I would be able to see the humourous side of a football club, one of the greatest in the history of English football, getting itself into such a bloody awful predicament. It has, according to Messrs Kenwright and Wyness, looked everywhere in Liverpool for a stadium but couldn’t find one.
It then finds the "Deal of the Century" in Kirkby and , as a bonus, it will cost us bugger all to build. Well, it will cost us but in other ways.The club then says to it’s fans "We want to do this fair and square, so we will let you vote on the proposal.Oh, by the way there is no alternative." So what happens if,against all odds, the awkward squad,including me, win the vote?Kenwright has already said there’s no alternative.o why o earth have we been given the vote.
I believe it is to get him off the hoof of being the Chairman who orchestrated the beginning of the end of one of the greatest clubs in England.There is, I admit, some conjecture in my contribution and you asked for it to be kept out; I apologise. One thing which isn’t conjecture however, is that we as a club are split apart.
Thank you Mr Kenwright.
You ask that there be no conjecture, so I will try my best to use logic. If the majority are in favour of moving to Kirkby, then almost half of all Evertonians who vote will have to make a decision whether to follow Everton out of this city or not.
My own view, as a No voter, is that this proposal will mean a disaster for us in the long term. Only time will tell who is right.If the vote goes against the proposal, then according to Mr Kenwright, there is no alternative so we are up the creek without a paddle.
If this wasn’t so bloody tragic, I would be able to see the humourous side of a football club, one of the greatest in the history of English football, getting itself into such a bloody awful predicament. It has, according to Messrs Kenwright and Wyness, looked everywhere in Liverpool for a stadium but couldn’t find one.
It then finds the "Deal of the Century" in Kirkby and , as a bonus, it will cost us bugger all to build. Well, it will cost us but in other ways.The club then says to it’s fans "We want to do this fair and square, so we will let you vote on the proposal.Oh, by the way there is no alternative." So what happens if,against all odds, the awkward squad,including me, win the vote?Kenwright has already said there’s no alternative.o why o earth have we been given the vote.
I believe it is to get him off the hoof of being the Chairman who orchestrated the beginning of the end of one of the greatest clubs in England.There is, I admit, some conjecture in my contribution and you asked for it to be kept out; I apologise. One thing which isn’t conjecture however, is that we as a club are split apart.
Thank you Mr Kenwright.
Dan Mckie
11 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:45:11
11 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:45:11
Yes,we are split at the moment,but only on this one thing and it shouldnt affect us after the vote as long as people accept the vote and carry on as normal i.e supporting Everton! All the talk of not going to watch them if we move to Kirkby is pathetic,im a ’yes’ voter and think the Kirkby move will be good for the club but I will still be going to watch the games whatever happens! I also didnt think we should have signed Beattie when we did but I still went to watch him (sadly)!
Richard Watts
12 Posted 22/08/2007 at 11:22:12
12 Posted 22/08/2007 at 11:22:12
Having dealt with numerous ERS ballots through work, their usual practise is to keep and up-to-minute count of the number of ballot papers they have recieved and, if they ask, let the client (I guess the club in this case) know how many people have voted.
However they don’t count how people have voted until after the ballot has closed - so won’t give the club an running total of ’yes’s against ’no’s.
However they don’t count how people have voted until after the ballot has closed - so won’t give the club an running total of ’yes’s against ’no’s.
Brian Finnigan
13 Posted 22/08/2007 at 11:18:58
13 Posted 22/08/2007 at 11:18:58
Dan Mckie.....with respect, there is a world of difference between buying a pudding (Beattie) and making potentially the most disastrous decision (I cannot call it a choice) in the long history of Everton Football Club.
There have been other puddings and, no doubt, many more to come. However, the consequences of failure in the transfer market is as nothing compared to the possible catastrophe caused by abandoning your roots and altering forever the ethos of the Club. Make no mistake about it....that is what a majority yes-vote will involve.
There have been other puddings and, no doubt, many more to come. However, the consequences of failure in the transfer market is as nothing compared to the possible catastrophe caused by abandoning your roots and altering forever the ethos of the Club. Make no mistake about it....that is what a majority yes-vote will involve.
Dan Mckie
14 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:57:25
14 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:57:25
Can see into the future can you Brian? As long as everyone accepts the vote and continues supporting Everton however they do now then we will be fine for the forseeable future surely? What if Keith Wyness and Terry Tesco’ projections are correct and it does take Everton forward,ever thought of that?
Brian Finnigan
15 Posted 22/08/2007 at 13:17:49
15 Posted 22/08/2007 at 13:17:49
Dan Mckie....if the projections of Keith and Terry are correct everything will be hunky dory and the extra £10M revenue will make a huge difference to our standing in world football. Forgive me....I am being sarcastic! My posting was primarily about the abandonment of roots and the change of ethos that is implicit in a move to Kirkby....not merely financial gain or loss.
This century long commitment to Kirkby will not, in my opinion, produce sufficient additional revenue, long term, to compensate for a loss of connection that many local, generational fans will suffer. The really insidious aspect of recent weeks is that genuine supporters from both sides of the divide have been forced to look at the move purely through the eyes of accountants. Not enough consideration has been given to those intangible factors that define a particular football Club and give it a unique character.
Part of our unique character derives partly from the fact that Everton has traditionally had the largest fraction of "walk-up" supporters of all Premier League teams. That may be a twentieth century habit which many of the new breed of supporters dismiss as irrelevant in an age of universal car ownership. Nevertheless, that feature contributes to the Club’s distinct character and, for many people, it adds to the match day experience and should not be abandoned so casually.
This century long commitment to Kirkby will not, in my opinion, produce sufficient additional revenue, long term, to compensate for a loss of connection that many local, generational fans will suffer. The really insidious aspect of recent weeks is that genuine supporters from both sides of the divide have been forced to look at the move purely through the eyes of accountants. Not enough consideration has been given to those intangible factors that define a particular football Club and give it a unique character.
Part of our unique character derives partly from the fact that Everton has traditionally had the largest fraction of "walk-up" supporters of all Premier League teams. That may be a twentieth century habit which many of the new breed of supporters dismiss as irrelevant in an age of universal car ownership. Nevertheless, that feature contributes to the Club’s distinct character and, for many people, it adds to the match day experience and should not be abandoned so casually.
Dave Roberts
16 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:43:05
16 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:43:05
Brian,
You have hit the nail on the head. Everton do have the highest proportion of (as you put it) ’walk up’ supporters and in my estimation they form the core of the NO vote. But sometimes, in order to support a conviction (and EFC is a conviction) it is necessary to make a little effort and traveling four miles up the road should not be a problem for a true Evertonian. Our roots, by the way are NOT in Liverpool, EFC is older than that. Our real roots are in our hearts just as they were in our father’s and their father’s (and mother’s!) hearts. And a combination of success here and there and a little encouragement for our own sons and daughters will ensure Everton’s future.Everton Football Club is an institution like no other and a body swerve a few miles to the East will make no difference to the core support.
You have hit the nail on the head. Everton do have the highest proportion of (as you put it) ’walk up’ supporters and in my estimation they form the core of the NO vote. But sometimes, in order to support a conviction (and EFC is a conviction) it is necessary to make a little effort and traveling four miles up the road should not be a problem for a true Evertonian. Our roots, by the way are NOT in Liverpool, EFC is older than that. Our real roots are in our hearts just as they were in our father’s and their father’s (and mother’s!) hearts. And a combination of success here and there and a little encouragement for our own sons and daughters will ensure Everton’s future.Everton Football Club is an institution like no other and a body swerve a few miles to the East will make no difference to the core support.
Brian Finnigan
17 Posted 22/08/2007 at 20:57:28
17 Posted 22/08/2007 at 20:57:28
Dave Roberts......The trouble with walking to Kirkby is that there is nothing on the way and not much more when you get there.
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1 Posted 21/08/2007 at 13:53:00
I didn't think they were counting up the ballot papers until 28 August, but I've read a few articles and posts on here today suggesting we'll know this week.