The Mail Bag
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Comments (28)
I'm surprised no-one has commented on the latest goings on with Tottenham and Jol, and Sevilla and Ramos. Of course Spurs are not as big as Everton, are they? Until you read the statment from their chairman Daniel Levy: 'We demand Champions League football by the end of this season. Until then, our manager's job is safe.' John Moores would have understood that. Imagine our chairman Bill giving such an ultimatum?
Quite the opposite, Mr Moyes knows he's safe. More to the point, why are we so obsessed with the transfer window, when nobody talks about management transfers? Sevilla's Ramos has done wonders there (5 trophies in 2 seasons) and Spurs know this only too well.
Much as I admire David Moyes, we're talking about Everton FFS! How about giving a similar ultimatum to our Davy? Also, I'm certain that if someone like Ramos does go to Spurs, we'll be talking about 'the big 5'. And then it'll be official ?Spurs are a bigger club than Everton.
Robert Lloyd, Posted 21/08/2007 at 22:13:57
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Jason Broome
2 Posted 21/08/2007 at 23:40:59
2 Posted 21/08/2007 at 23:40:59
I feel that David is a victim of his own success.
I am quite happy with what Moyes has done in 5 years considering where we were and where we are now, and I feel issuing ultimatums is an insult to the man.
David does not have as much money or stress as other premiership managers yet you want him to feel pressured... Why?
He is improving, we are improving... leave the man alone!
I am quite happy with what Moyes has done in 5 years considering where we were and where we are now, and I feel issuing ultimatums is an insult to the man.
David does not have as much money or stress as other premiership managers yet you want him to feel pressured... Why?
He is improving, we are improving... leave the man alone!
Jason Hagarthy
3 Posted 22/08/2007 at 03:34:53
3 Posted 22/08/2007 at 03:34:53
If, a la Spurs, Moyes was given the same spend as the the ’big four’ over a number of seasons then that would be fair. He ain’t so it is bonkers. I feel Moyes does his best without such threats. Still frustrated we get bogged down my the likes of Reading though. I know Man U only drew with them but they did create loads of chances too, whereas we did not! Hopefully Moyes will land the desired additions and we’ll be better equipped to emulate the way the top sides outclass the mid table battlers.
Neil Pearse
4 Posted 22/08/2007 at 06:58:27
4 Posted 22/08/2007 at 06:58:27
If Moyes is given the money to land Fernandes and Yakubu, I think it WILL be reasonable for us all to demand a top 6 finish. Been in the job five years, got ’his team’ etc. etc..
By the way, I was trying to imagine what the more negative Toffeeweb commentators would have been saying about Everton if we had been conducting a highly destabilising ’shall we keep our manager?’ process in public. Perhaps words to the effect that this shows that BK is not fit to run a corner shop?
Tottenham have looked a complete and utter shambles in a way that will undoubtedly have affected the morale of the playing squad.
By the way, I was trying to imagine what the more negative Toffeeweb commentators would have been saying about Everton if we had been conducting a highly destabilising ’shall we keep our manager?’ process in public. Perhaps words to the effect that this shows that BK is not fit to run a corner shop?
Tottenham have looked a complete and utter shambles in a way that will undoubtedly have affected the morale of the playing squad.
Dave C
5 Posted 22/08/2007 at 07:02:58
5 Posted 22/08/2007 at 07:02:58
Be of no doubt wherever we finish it’ll be above Spurs
Levy’s statement proves his biggest ambition is to sack Jol.
Spurs demand success ? they’ve never bothered before
If anyone besides the obvious candidates gets champions league it’ll be us, Moyes doesnt need to be threatend, he wants it more than his fucking boss
Levy’s statement proves his biggest ambition is to sack Jol.
Spurs demand success ? they’ve never bothered before
If anyone besides the obvious candidates gets champions league it’ll be us, Moyes doesnt need to be threatend, he wants it more than his fucking boss
Gaz Davies
6 Posted 22/08/2007 at 07:54:40
6 Posted 22/08/2007 at 07:54:40
Why must the board issue an ultimatum to a manager who is quite clearly improving the team and performances thereof. Could you really have expected to see players like Lescott, Arteta, Cahill and Johnson under Walter Smith?
As Jason said he’s a victim of his own success. Well, that and the often repeated club motto. In the current footballing climate it is unrealistic to expect overnight success as Blackburn did in ’95 or even Chelsea did a few years ago.
Surely though, it’s clear that Eveton are improving as a team and as a club - unsettling individuals who are key to that will only disable progress.
As Jason said he’s a victim of his own success. Well, that and the often repeated club motto. In the current footballing climate it is unrealistic to expect overnight success as Blackburn did in ’95 or even Chelsea did a few years ago.
Surely though, it’s clear that Eveton are improving as a team and as a club - unsettling individuals who are key to that will only disable progress.
Garry
7 Posted 22/08/2007 at 07:59:04
7 Posted 22/08/2007 at 07:59:04
Like most people above, I’ve viewed the recent goings on at Spurs as something to laugh at, certainly not something to emulate.
Sorry Robert, but I’d be livid with our board if they’d have acted like Levy at his mates have at Spurs - they’ve spend a shit loads of cash in the summer and then a couple of games into the season they start doubting the man who spent it. Ridiculous.
Sorry Robert, but I’d be livid with our board if they’d have acted like Levy at his mates have at Spurs - they’ve spend a shit loads of cash in the summer and then a couple of games into the season they start doubting the man who spent it. Ridiculous.
Erik Dols
8 Posted 22/08/2007 at 08:29:22
8 Posted 22/08/2007 at 08:29:22
Like the people above me said: Spurs have outspent us for the last... well for a shitload of years anyway. So that their standards are a little bit higher is understandable.
But even if you take their spendings into account, that Levy-guy is just a dumbass for so obviously letting down his manager after only two defeats. I’m glad this doesn’t happen everytime Everton loses back to back.
But even if you take their spendings into account, that Levy-guy is just a dumbass for so obviously letting down his manager after only two defeats. I’m glad this doesn’t happen everytime Everton loses back to back.
Thommo
9 Posted 22/08/2007 at 08:44:31
9 Posted 22/08/2007 at 08:44:31
I don’t think Moyes deserves being given an ultimatum. While I would like to see Everton qualifying for the European Champions League, playing more entertaining football and winning something, how many managers would put up with the transfer shennanigans that Moyes has had to over the last five years. Even this year it has been; yes, we have; no, we haven’t; yes, we have with transfer money. Mind you, it also puts to rest the chestnut about which managers are available that might be any better.
Brian Noble
10 Posted 22/08/2007 at 08:48:39
10 Posted 22/08/2007 at 08:48:39
Gawd,everybody who writes in is beginning to sound like Doddy!’Moyes a victim of his own success’?I must have missed that.What have we won?What have we come near to winning?Don’t give me fourth two years ago -Moyes’ subsequent transfer dealings and naivety in Europe showed that up for what it was-lucky!
Get real,will you all?Everton are an average side with a limited manager.We’re a mile away from honours-even if we do spend £25M in this transfer window!"
Get real,will you all?Everton are an average side with a limited manager.We’re a mile away from honours-even if we do spend £25M in this transfer window!"
Allan
11 Posted 22/08/2007 at 09:57:10
11 Posted 22/08/2007 at 09:57:10
Brian, thats nonsense mate. Everton are an above average side with an above average manager with a below average stadium and a below average budget. The last 2 are the most important points; couple them with a lack of European exposure (any European player under about 28 probably hasn’t even heard of Everton) and the fact that we’re based in the north east of England and we’re unfashionable to boot. Ask any overseas player and they’d rather live in London or play for Utd or the Shite, who like it or not, are a much bigger club than we are. Fact.
Martin Jol was given a brief at the beginning of the season (surely?) and I’m certain David Moyes has goals (top 6 I’d imagine) so any speculation is mere folly.
Martin Jol was given a brief at the beginning of the season (surely?) and I’m certain David Moyes has goals (top 6 I’d imagine) so any speculation is mere folly.
Gaz Davies
12 Posted 22/08/2007 at 09:54:12
12 Posted 22/08/2007 at 09:54:12
Woah Brian - let’s have less of the blind optimism!
The truth of the matter is that expectations have been raised at Everton, and that is down, at least partly, to Moyes. It is also true that we don’t have endless supplies of cash and can’t hope to spend £40m on three or four players in the hope of gatecrashing the ’big four’ party.
Unless you have spent crazily, like Man Utd, Chelsea, L’pool and Spurs, then I believe that success can be measured in improvement. If you believe that Everton have improved over the last 5 years then yes, Moyes is successful. It also appears that Moyes has learnt from his mistakes and those who have gone before him, namely O’Leary at Leeds.
While there is always room for improvement, I don’t feel it is necessary for knee-jerk reactions regarding issuing ulimatuns to the manager. Nor is it necessary for all the doom and gloom. Christ, I’d rather EFC 2007 than EFC 2002!
The truth of the matter is that expectations have been raised at Everton, and that is down, at least partly, to Moyes. It is also true that we don’t have endless supplies of cash and can’t hope to spend £40m on three or four players in the hope of gatecrashing the ’big four’ party.
Unless you have spent crazily, like Man Utd, Chelsea, L’pool and Spurs, then I believe that success can be measured in improvement. If you believe that Everton have improved over the last 5 years then yes, Moyes is successful. It also appears that Moyes has learnt from his mistakes and those who have gone before him, namely O’Leary at Leeds.
While there is always room for improvement, I don’t feel it is necessary for knee-jerk reactions regarding issuing ulimatuns to the manager. Nor is it necessary for all the doom and gloom. Christ, I’d rather EFC 2007 than EFC 2002!
Brian Noble
13 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:02:51
13 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:02:51
Last time I looked at the map,Allan,Everton was still based in the North WEST of England.Perhaps you know something about the Tesco move I don’t!
I stand by what I said about the manager and the team -the statement has nothing to do with the past only our current state.
I stand by what I said about the manager and the team -the statement has nothing to do with the past only our current state.
Allan
14 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:06:03
14 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:06:03
Exactly Gaz, and good point made about Leeds, for all the money they spent look at them now.
We’re sensible with money, and to my mind thats the way to run a business - I cant help but feel alot of people on here have absolutely zero business sense and just let their hearts rule their heads where Everton are concerned.
You have to stick to a budget and sadly, we don’t have licence to print money. If we’d spent like SPurs would that guarantee us success? I don’t think it would - a sound business model, management who balance the books and buy in the right tools (players) will make your business thrive. If you have those things in place, success will follow. First things first, you have to stablise, thats what Moyes has done with the team so far, now its time to move on a level and as far as I can see, thats whats happening - we have fresh money being made available for players and we’re trying to buy them.
I’m happy with the current situation, very happy in fact. 5 years ago would you have thought we’d be looking at £12m strikers? I doubt it.
We’re sensible with money, and to my mind thats the way to run a business - I cant help but feel alot of people on here have absolutely zero business sense and just let their hearts rule their heads where Everton are concerned.
You have to stick to a budget and sadly, we don’t have licence to print money. If we’d spent like SPurs would that guarantee us success? I don’t think it would - a sound business model, management who balance the books and buy in the right tools (players) will make your business thrive. If you have those things in place, success will follow. First things first, you have to stablise, thats what Moyes has done with the team so far, now its time to move on a level and as far as I can see, thats whats happening - we have fresh money being made available for players and we’re trying to buy them.
I’m happy with the current situation, very happy in fact. 5 years ago would you have thought we’d be looking at £12m strikers? I doubt it.
Allan
15 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:12:41
15 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:12:41
East/West - either or EITHER!
John Lloyd
16 Posted 22/08/2007 at 09:57:58
16 Posted 22/08/2007 at 09:57:58
More utter shite, did you see that stats on sky when we played Tottenham, they’re 3/4 in the money spent league since premier league began. If I was the chairman of them I would be demanding top 4. Compare that to What Moyesey has spent, even including the Yak & Manny and we’re not even close!!! Plus Moyes manages to get profits for some of the players we sell (killa, Davies, Beattie, Naysmith etc) yet we are still more likely to break into top 4 than Tottenham. AND YOUR STILL MOANING!! tit
Brian Noble
17 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:28:11
17 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:28:11
Not moaning -just not reving about how well Moyes has done.Some of you on here see him as the second coming-in reality he’s on the better side of average.My opinion but we shall see.
Allan
18 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:34:21
18 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:34:21
Shall we go back to changing managers every 2/3 years then Brian? Long periods of instability always make for succesful clubs; I mean, look at Man Utd & Arsenal, the 2 clubs in the division who’ve experienced a long period of success, last time I looked they’ve both had the same manager for over 10 years.
Who would be your choice if we were going to change today?
Who would be your choice if we were going to change today?
Beaniecheese
19 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:41:17
19 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:41:17
Quote...
’And then it’ll be official - Spurs are a bigger club than Everton’
rofl
’And then it’ll be official - Spurs are a bigger club than Everton’
rofl
Gaz Davies
20 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:43:18
20 Posted 22/08/2007 at 10:43:18
I don’t think that most people on here see Moyes as the second coming or anything like that. He’s a decent manager who has overseen a period of improvement for Everton as well as introducing stability, which is pertinent to Allan’s point.
I don’t for a second think that Moyes is the best manager in the world, but he is good at his job and has improved alongside the team and club as a whole.
Let’s just look forward to the season - a bit of optimism wouldn’t go amiss either, it wouldn’t hurt and it’s bound to be more enjoyable than always taking the sceptical, pessimistic point of view. Cheer up Brian!
I don’t for a second think that Moyes is the best manager in the world, but he is good at his job and has improved alongside the team and club as a whole.
Let’s just look forward to the season - a bit of optimism wouldn’t go amiss either, it wouldn’t hurt and it’s bound to be more enjoyable than always taking the sceptical, pessimistic point of view. Cheer up Brian!
Dan Greenwood
21 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:20:43
21 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:20:43
This initial post is ridiculous.
’Much as I admire David Moyes, we’re talking about Everton FFS! How about giving a similar ultimatum to our Davy? Also, I’m certain that if someone like Ramos does go to Spurs, we’ll be talking about ’the big 5’. And then it’ll be official - Spurs are a bigger club than Everton.’
Finish your lunch and go back to selling oil barrels to Bush.
’Much as I admire David Moyes, we’re talking about Everton FFS! How about giving a similar ultimatum to our Davy? Also, I’m certain that if someone like Ramos does go to Spurs, we’ll be talking about ’the big 5’. And then it’ll be official - Spurs are a bigger club than Everton.’
Finish your lunch and go back to selling oil barrels to Bush.
James Elworthy
22 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:27:27
22 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:27:27
If you wish to discuss Tottenham I suggest you log on to their equivalent of Toffeeweb whatever is is Cockweb or Roosterweb
Steve Claringbold
23 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:36:08
23 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:36:08
Tottenham?
Who the hell are they?
Who the hell are they?
Lee Spargo
24 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:40:18
24 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:40:18
Ridiculous.
If you dont think that Moyes has done a good job then, quite frankly, you’re insane.
If you dont think that Moyes has done a good job then, quite frankly, you’re insane.
Steve Claringbold
25 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:51:36
25 Posted 22/08/2007 at 12:51:36
Yeah, let’s give Davy an ultimatum as you say.
"Davy, on the little money you have see if you can get the team to a 6th place or higher."
"Davy, on the little money you have see if you can get the team to a 6th place or higher."
Shaka
26 Posted 22/08/2007 at 13:04:02
26 Posted 22/08/2007 at 13:04:02
Micheal, Who’s this guy Norman? On your rumour mill. That claims Manny has signed!!
Peter Singer
27 Posted 22/08/2007 at 13:20:58
27 Posted 22/08/2007 at 13:20:58
All I want for Christmas is a two-faced, backstabbing chairman.
Oliver McAdam
28 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:44:34
28 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:44:34
Mid-december: Jol gets sacked Spurs get Ramos.
Januray window: In come 5-6 spanish coaches, 5-6 spanish players Ramos is familiar with. Players begin to get unrest.
March: Spurs fighing for a Euro finish.
June: Spurs fail in Euro attempt.
Summer: Berbatov leaves, Keane leaves, King blasts board.
September: Ramos sacked.
This id whta happens when clubs give ultimatums, instability creaps in and it takes a long time t be rebuilt. Jol has a relashioship with his players and staff, its not all about the players on the pitch.
2 Clubs which offer ultimatums- Madrid, win nothing for 4 years after sacking manager that won 2 champions leagues and 2 league titles. Finally win league, sack manager.
Inter Milan, forever underachieving after numerous managers and money spent. Finally win league through default (best team relegated, second best deducted points, 3rd best deducted points)
Sacking mangers after no immediate success is what happens in Europe alot, and I’m, happy it doesn’t happen in England, especially at Everton. Imagine if it did, Ferguson would have been sacked, Wenger sacked, Mourinho sacked, Benitez sacked.
What is happening at spurs make me feel all the more that Everton are better equipped to make it a big 5 than spurs.
Januray window: In come 5-6 spanish coaches, 5-6 spanish players Ramos is familiar with. Players begin to get unrest.
March: Spurs fighing for a Euro finish.
June: Spurs fail in Euro attempt.
Summer: Berbatov leaves, Keane leaves, King blasts board.
September: Ramos sacked.
This id whta happens when clubs give ultimatums, instability creaps in and it takes a long time t be rebuilt. Jol has a relashioship with his players and staff, its not all about the players on the pitch.
2 Clubs which offer ultimatums- Madrid, win nothing for 4 years after sacking manager that won 2 champions leagues and 2 league titles. Finally win league, sack manager.
Inter Milan, forever underachieving after numerous managers and money spent. Finally win league through default (best team relegated, second best deducted points, 3rd best deducted points)
Sacking mangers after no immediate success is what happens in Europe alot, and I’m, happy it doesn’t happen in England, especially at Everton. Imagine if it did, Ferguson would have been sacked, Wenger sacked, Mourinho sacked, Benitez sacked.
What is happening at spurs make me feel all the more that Everton are better equipped to make it a big 5 than spurs.
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1 Posted 21/08/2007 at 23:42:03
Don’t chat shit