The Mail Bag
Daddy? Did you vote ?Yes??
Comments (27)
Wyness states that the Loop "is a red herring from the council" Financially that may be true ? we have no idea and neither does he. What we do know is that it is physically conceivable, based on what HOK Sport architectural and WSP engineering have to say. This, of course, contradicts what the board are saying. Well, that?s it.
I was born a Blue, I?ll die one. Those of you who voted ?Yes? for a better view and because the board scared you into believing you would be playing Marine within five years, will have condemned us to obscurity. Liverpool will grow, we may well wither ? and in years to come you will lie to your children and say that you voted ?No?.
Sore loser? probably.
Sad, definitely.
James Percival, Posted 23/08/2007 at 00:03:23
Comments
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John Charles
2 Posted 23/08/2007 at 01:33:22
2 Posted 23/08/2007 at 01:33:22
I think we all know that somehow it coudl fit, but by ’red herring’ maybe he is refering to the fact there is no financial package to pay for it on the table.
As for Dick Fearon above, fair comment, although the vast majority of us have discussed it very civlly. I see both arguements totally and valid, its down the the individual to weight them up against each other and see which ishas more stregth for there aspirations of what everton should be.
There is no right or wrong perhaps? Whatever the outcome, we voted for it collectively..its our decision as fans as a whole.
I think most of us would prefer goodison or the loop, but most of us would also drive to Chester if they moved us there too!
As for Dick Fearon above, fair comment, although the vast majority of us have discussed it very civlly. I see both arguements totally and valid, its down the the individual to weight them up against each other and see which ishas more stregth for there aspirations of what everton should be.
There is no right or wrong perhaps? Whatever the outcome, we voted for it collectively..its our decision as fans as a whole.
I think most of us would prefer goodison or the loop, but most of us would also drive to Chester if they moved us there too!
Dave
3 Posted 23/08/2007 at 05:39:09
3 Posted 23/08/2007 at 05:39:09
Well guys
This is it, the inevitable will be announced, Kirkby it is
My disgust at the way the club has handled this and my disappointment at the ease with which they have been able to fool most of the people, thus far, all of the time is dwarfed by a feeling of utter desolation as the inevitability of Kirkby sinks in
I’d hope you yes voters get the cosmopolitan team you crave, and the stadiom is packed to the rafters, but I doubt it very much
The Everton I have supported as a scouser for nearly 50 years is about to desist
I was born in Everton I was Deperately proud of Everton - no matter how shite we’ve been at times -
I need Everton Football club far more than it ever needed me
Trouble is I dont know who this new club is ? I dont recognise it nor do I recognise the thousands of yes voters
To the no voters who feel the same but can find solace by going to Kirkby good luck
to the yes voters who’ve got what they wanted all along, ah what the heck, good luck to you too
This is it, the inevitable will be announced, Kirkby it is
My disgust at the way the club has handled this and my disappointment at the ease with which they have been able to fool most of the people, thus far, all of the time is dwarfed by a feeling of utter desolation as the inevitability of Kirkby sinks in
I’d hope you yes voters get the cosmopolitan team you crave, and the stadiom is packed to the rafters, but I doubt it very much
The Everton I have supported as a scouser for nearly 50 years is about to desist
I was born in Everton I was Deperately proud of Everton - no matter how shite we’ve been at times -
I need Everton Football club far more than it ever needed me
Trouble is I dont know who this new club is ? I dont recognise it nor do I recognise the thousands of yes voters
To the no voters who feel the same but can find solace by going to Kirkby good luck
to the yes voters who’ve got what they wanted all along, ah what the heck, good luck to you too
Gaz
4 Posted 23/08/2007 at 07:57:38
4 Posted 23/08/2007 at 07:57:38
Listen, I am in no way trying to trivialise the size of the stadium vote, but for all those saying ’If we move, Everton will fade away into nothing’... don’t you think you’re being a bit dramatic?
I love Goodison, I love County Road, I love that feeling on a match day and I will be extremely sad when we leave, if it’s for Kirkby or somewhere else in the distant future. But at the end of the day, it’s only a stadium.
People should stop letting the stadium define Everton, we are bigger than that.
I love Goodison, I love County Road, I love that feeling on a match day and I will be extremely sad when we leave, if it’s for Kirkby or somewhere else in the distant future. But at the end of the day, it’s only a stadium.
People should stop letting the stadium define Everton, we are bigger than that.
PAUL GLADWELL
5 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:10:01
5 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:10:01
my stomach is sick witing for this outcome I know what is coming and it COULD signal the start of the end for me I have been a season ticket holder for 20 years so dont say my type are not true blues and are not wanted people like me at this moment in time our gutted we are part of the soul of this club "on the banks of the royal blue mersey !! no more singing that am afraid .
Gavin Ramejkis
6 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:13:44
6 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:13:44
Gaz I understand the trivialisation of just a stadium but as was shoved down our collective throats during all of this was the need to expand the clubs income generation through various streams, by moving out of a city to a town, no mater how revamped it becomes it will only ever by a town, we lose the potential income streams of attached hotel and leisure facilities and make a relatively unattractive non match day events venue; why go to a concert in Kirkby when Liverpool is four miles down the road with bars and hotels galore to stay in afterwards? Why hold a function at Kirkby when Liverpool is four miles down the road with so much more bars, clubs and hotels to offer? There are so many pro and cons to this issue but as has already been pointed out for two reasons its pointless debating them any further; the Tesco deal now appears to have been done and dusted long before the vote and the alternative (so far) is not even being acknowleged and is completely ignored, how attractive is a club to a buyer with just City Centre planning permission and land before a stadium is built? I doubt we will ever know.
vin bleu
7 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:21:47
7 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:21:47
Paul, don’t be so down. I’ll be upset if we don’t move but whatever the outcome I’m happy that most people have had their say. I’m convinced there are many good times ahead and if our backs are ever against the wall we’ll all pull together. Our history and culture will ensure that. Don’t forget there was someone like you about 100 years ago stressing over the fact we would be moving outside the city boundary to Goodison. Would he have denied us the glorious Goodison era?
Lee Spargo
8 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:50:11
8 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:50:11
We’ve had a fair ballot.
Respect the result - whichever way it goes - and concentrate on supporting the club. If you dont, then I dont see how you can call yourself a true Evertonian.
Bootle Blue must be six years old. So he might not get his own way. So what? Deal with it and grow up.
I wont be lying to my Son. You should not presume to know what will happen in the future, let alone the coversations I will be having with my children.
You’re a fool, sir.
Respect the result - whichever way it goes - and concentrate on supporting the club. If you dont, then I dont see how you can call yourself a true Evertonian.
Bootle Blue must be six years old. So he might not get his own way. So what? Deal with it and grow up.
I wont be lying to my Son. You should not presume to know what will happen in the future, let alone the coversations I will be having with my children.
You’re a fool, sir.
Sean Rothwell
9 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:54:48
9 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:54:48
I don’t understand how you can say, Gavin, that we are moving from a city to a town. Goodison is not in the city centre, it is in Walton. Walton is a town in Liverpool. As far as I’m concerned we are moving from one town in Liverpool to another.
Gavin Ramejkis
10 Posted 23/08/2007 at 09:20:54
10 Posted 23/08/2007 at 09:20:54
Sean, Walton is not a town it is a district or ward of Liverpool City, you can walk from Goodison to the city centre, you could also walk from Kirkby to Liverpool City centre if you dressed up in hiking boots, the point of city location means within walking distance to me, Kirkby isn’t as is a town. If you were to show someone two maps one with Goodison and one with the Tesco stadium and asked a bystander where each was they would say Goodison is in Liverpool and Tesco was in Kirkby.
Bootle very blue
11 Posted 23/08/2007 at 09:25:59
11 Posted 23/08/2007 at 09:25:59
I firmly believe that moving to Kirby will be a big mistake which will deny us any of the benefits of being in a major european city. It will reduce the chances for future investment and will limit our ability to generate additional revenue streams.
I can’t see into the future, but I can make intelligent guesses as to what I think will happen.
Kirby is one very easy option so I understand why it might seem attractive; but if you think about what an investor in a club might want then a city center club is a damn sight more attractive than a cow shed in Kirby.
Lee, I’m sore just like I was when that twat Streford nicked rooney and I will get over it, and no I have no idea what you’ll be telling your kids, but if you voted ’yes’ I think you’ve made a mistake.
oh, and you, sir, are an arse! :)
I can’t see into the future, but I can make intelligent guesses as to what I think will happen.
Kirby is one very easy option so I understand why it might seem attractive; but if you think about what an investor in a club might want then a city center club is a damn sight more attractive than a cow shed in Kirby.
Lee, I’m sore just like I was when that twat Streford nicked rooney and I will get over it, and no I have no idea what you’ll be telling your kids, but if you voted ’yes’ I think you’ve made a mistake.
oh, and you, sir, are an arse! :)
paul gladwell
12 Posted 23/08/2007 at 11:13:31
12 Posted 23/08/2007 at 11:13:31
sorry vin mate but when we last moved we were barely 15 years old with the fanbase of say southport there was no history, years of torment, happiness etc connected to being a blue this move is in a different league alltogether from the days of Houlding and co there will be Dixie on the steps at st Georges hall when we win the cup again ther will be a falseness in singing "on the banks" and just wait for this next coming derby it will kill me the stick and for those who say it dont bother them well thats you ,it does me and many more I have always won most arguements with reds despite there success those days are soon over
Neil Pearse
13 Posted 23/08/2007 at 11:20:31
13 Posted 23/08/2007 at 11:20:31
Guys, can we agree that we all sincerely hold the views that we hold as being the best for the club we support and love? None of us are traitors, bastards, arseholes or cunts (to quote some of the common terms used on this site).
I have been a devoted Evertonian since my first memories in life (over 40 years ago!). Personally I am very afraid that we will get a NO vote and that we will end up rotting at Goodison with no place to go, and no investor willing to pony up to buy us and build a new stadium.
But I respect those of you who are very afraid that we will end up rotting in Kirkby, with no investor willing... etc.. Even though I don’t agree with you.
This is not an easy decision, and we should stop pretending that it is. It is easy for good and reasonable people to disagree. We should stop acting as if those who do disagree with us are not worthy of our respect.
Sorry for the sermon.
I have been a devoted Evertonian since my first memories in life (over 40 years ago!). Personally I am very afraid that we will get a NO vote and that we will end up rotting at Goodison with no place to go, and no investor willing to pony up to buy us and build a new stadium.
But I respect those of you who are very afraid that we will end up rotting in Kirkby, with no investor willing... etc.. Even though I don’t agree with you.
This is not an easy decision, and we should stop pretending that it is. It is easy for good and reasonable people to disagree. We should stop acting as if those who do disagree with us are not worthy of our respect.
Sorry for the sermon.
A codd
14 Posted 23/08/2007 at 11:51:06
14 Posted 23/08/2007 at 11:51:06
Utter tripe..
I voted yes because I do not want to be left behind while around us everyone gets stronger.
Thats my opinion,you sir are entitled to yours but dont castigate fellow Evertonians on what they believe.
I voted yes because I believe Liverpool City Council have proven itself on numerous occasions to be grossly incompetent.
If the team is succesfull on the pitch then everything else will take care of itself,but dont dare throw mud at fellow Evertonians.
I voted yes because I do not want to be left behind while around us everyone gets stronger.
Thats my opinion,you sir are entitled to yours but dont castigate fellow Evertonians on what they believe.
I voted yes because I believe Liverpool City Council have proven itself on numerous occasions to be grossly incompetent.
If the team is succesfull on the pitch then everything else will take care of itself,but dont dare throw mud at fellow Evertonians.
Bootle Blue
15 Posted 23/08/2007 at 11:58:55
15 Posted 23/08/2007 at 11:58:55
I’m not throwing mud at anyone, you should be more calm.
I’m just suggesting that if you take a long term view, then Kirby is a truly crap plan.
I’m also suggesting that perhaps in years to come the short term fix of a 50,000 seater stadium will not have enabled us to keep up with the likes of Newcastle (who chose to stay in the city) because we cannot attract the level of investment out at Kirby that we would get in Liverpool.
This is an emotive issue, the mail was meant to be more whimsical than aggressive.
I pray that in years to come I will be able to my kids that the move to Kirby was responsible for more trophies in the cabinet.
And, inn answer to the question of -Daddy? Did you vote ?Yes??- I’d like to be able to say that I was a bloody fool and voted ’No’.
But my head tells me that Kirby is a mistake.
If the vote is a ’Yes’ I’ll be at Kirby with the rest of you, supporting the club I have always supported and doing my best to make the move a success.
I’m just suggesting that if you take a long term view, then Kirby is a truly crap plan.
I’m also suggesting that perhaps in years to come the short term fix of a 50,000 seater stadium will not have enabled us to keep up with the likes of Newcastle (who chose to stay in the city) because we cannot attract the level of investment out at Kirby that we would get in Liverpool.
This is an emotive issue, the mail was meant to be more whimsical than aggressive.
I pray that in years to come I will be able to my kids that the move to Kirby was responsible for more trophies in the cabinet.
And, inn answer to the question of -Daddy? Did you vote ?Yes??- I’d like to be able to say that I was a bloody fool and voted ’No’.
But my head tells me that Kirby is a mistake.
If the vote is a ’Yes’ I’ll be at Kirby with the rest of you, supporting the club I have always supported and doing my best to make the move a success.
Dave Lynch
16 Posted 23/08/2007 at 13:35:54
16 Posted 23/08/2007 at 13:35:54
Vin bleu.
It is our history and culture that we are leaving behind.
You cannot take certain elements of history with you mate.
All of our history is ensconsed within the walls of Goodison, you can take the memories if you like.
But the history will be gone forever.
Imagine standing in our bright shiny chocolate box of a stadium and telling your kids about the history of Everton ?
As for our culture. Football fans culture died a death when Sky re-invented football.
Money now rules the game at the expense of fans.
Everyone wants a quick fix of success and our fans are no different, hence the we must move mindset.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t. Thats the way i see the vote and to be honest couldn’t care less anymore.
The club will tell you that we must move and don’t seem to be too worried about the fans who will stay away.
But believe me. The club cannot survive without it’s fan base and neither can any club come to that.
They may try to convince you otherwise, or they may be thinking that we will just turn up regardless. My feeling is we won’t.
All this we are Evertonians, we are better than other fans is bollox.
All fans feel the way we do about their club and will argue that they are better than us.
Just look at the deluded geordies for evidence of that.
I hope whatever happens in the vote it works for us.
But i have a feeling that a move to Kirkby will eventually destroy us as a major club.
NSNO.
It is our history and culture that we are leaving behind.
You cannot take certain elements of history with you mate.
All of our history is ensconsed within the walls of Goodison, you can take the memories if you like.
But the history will be gone forever.
Imagine standing in our bright shiny chocolate box of a stadium and telling your kids about the history of Everton ?
As for our culture. Football fans culture died a death when Sky re-invented football.
Money now rules the game at the expense of fans.
Everyone wants a quick fix of success and our fans are no different, hence the we must move mindset.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t. Thats the way i see the vote and to be honest couldn’t care less anymore.
The club will tell you that we must move and don’t seem to be too worried about the fans who will stay away.
But believe me. The club cannot survive without it’s fan base and neither can any club come to that.
They may try to convince you otherwise, or they may be thinking that we will just turn up regardless. My feeling is we won’t.
All this we are Evertonians, we are better than other fans is bollox.
All fans feel the way we do about their club and will argue that they are better than us.
Just look at the deluded geordies for evidence of that.
I hope whatever happens in the vote it works for us.
But i have a feeling that a move to Kirkby will eventually destroy us as a major club.
NSNO.
nick harris
17 Posted 23/08/2007 at 14:32:06
17 Posted 23/08/2007 at 14:32:06
"the yes voters will have condemned us to obscurity. Liverpool will grow, we may well wither ? and in years to come you will lie to your children and say that you voted ?No "
and you have the nerve to say the board used scare tactics ???
that statement is just your opinion theres no facts or figures to back it up and stinks of ignorance im sorry to say.
and you have the nerve to say the board used scare tactics ???
that statement is just your opinion theres no facts or figures to back it up and stinks of ignorance im sorry to say.
Raoul Duke
18 Posted 23/08/2007 at 14:54:57
18 Posted 23/08/2007 at 14:54:57
Dry your eyes Bootle!
People say this vote is tearing us apart.. it aint.
Attitudes like yours are what’s tearing us apart.
People say this vote is tearing us apart.. it aint.
Attitudes like yours are what’s tearing us apart.
andy.crombie
19 Posted 23/08/2007 at 15:22:57
19 Posted 23/08/2007 at 15:22:57
As for the idiot asking for facts and figures? what have the board supplied? there is plenty of reasoned argument on the No side.
We are leaving liverpool for a fairly abject looking stadium outside the city.
So now Everton is a franchise? like some American Football team? This is insane?
Oh and the final caveats:
I respect all Evertonian views.
*I particularly find the Yes vote very convincing, but due to my limited intelligence I voted No because I am thick.
*I voted No because it’s easier to spell than Yes.
*I accept that all Yes voters have a better grasp of stadium design, accountancy, banking, investment analysis than the No voters.
*I accept that as a No voter I will be prone to bouts of depression, nostalgia and stupidity.
*I accept that the Yes voters love Everton as much as I do and any accusation that they are looking at a short term fix to a fairly abject looking building in Kirby because they’re too lazy to bother even considering alternatives is unfair.
*I also accept that the yes voters really can give a shit.
We are leaving liverpool for a fairly abject looking stadium outside the city.
So now Everton is a franchise? like some American Football team? This is insane?
Oh and the final caveats:
I respect all Evertonian views.
*I particularly find the Yes vote very convincing, but due to my limited intelligence I voted No because I am thick.
*I voted No because it’s easier to spell than Yes.
*I accept that all Yes voters have a better grasp of stadium design, accountancy, banking, investment analysis than the No voters.
*I accept that as a No voter I will be prone to bouts of depression, nostalgia and stupidity.
*I accept that the Yes voters love Everton as much as I do and any accusation that they are looking at a short term fix to a fairly abject looking building in Kirby because they’re too lazy to bother even considering alternatives is unfair.
*I also accept that the yes voters really can give a shit.
Roy coyne
20 Posted 23/08/2007 at 15:34:50
20 Posted 23/08/2007 at 15:34:50
I just hope that if the vote is yes the morons that voted yes live long enough to see that they are responsible for the demise of Everton.They have sold our soul for a tatty cowshed in Kirkby still WE draw a line under it and carry on but never again can we claim that all the gobshites are kopites as is apparent we have our fair share
Brian Wolf
21 Posted 23/08/2007 at 15:57:33
21 Posted 23/08/2007 at 15:57:33
"never again can we claim that all the gobshites are kopites as is apparent we have our fair share"
Yeah, and you’re one of them Roy - you gobshite.
Yeah, and you’re one of them Roy - you gobshite.
Roy coyne
22 Posted 23/08/2007 at 16:11:49
22 Posted 23/08/2007 at 16:11:49
Oops did I touch a nerve Brian never mind your not on your own
Brian Wolf
23 Posted 23/08/2007 at 16:17:57
23 Posted 23/08/2007 at 16:17:57
No you didn’t touch a nerve Roy, I’m just sick of a percentage of No voters making themselves out to be some sort of Martyrs.
I’m a No voter myself, but I wouldn’t be a complete dick about it like some No voters, who claim that Yes voters are traitors, nothing better than shit, sold their souls etc etc. Yes voters obviously felt strongly enough to vote yes for a reason and no voters the same and everyone should be respectful of that regardless of the outcome instead of gobbing off at every opportunity.
I’m a No voter myself, but I wouldn’t be a complete dick about it like some No voters, who claim that Yes voters are traitors, nothing better than shit, sold their souls etc etc. Yes voters obviously felt strongly enough to vote yes for a reason and no voters the same and everyone should be respectful of that regardless of the outcome instead of gobbing off at every opportunity.
Lee Spargo
24 Posted 23/08/2007 at 16:37:14
24 Posted 23/08/2007 at 16:37:14
I agree completely, Brian.
And I voted yes.
Why cant we all just get along? Shame really.
And I voted yes.
Why cant we all just get along? Shame really.
Neil Pearse
25 Posted 23/08/2007 at 19:38:58
25 Posted 23/08/2007 at 19:38:58
No nerve touched Roy. Just shameful that you are so intolerant and disrespectful of other people who care about this club as much as you do.
Roy coyne
26 Posted 23/08/2007 at 19:55:55
26 Posted 23/08/2007 at 19:55:55
I promise if as expected you yes voters win the day you wont hear another peep about it but please as I feel so strongly that’s its wrong expect me to like it,the people i am against are not those who have just as strong a view the other way its the ones that did not even consider the options or could not bother to vote
john mc
27 Posted 23/08/2007 at 20:32:35
27 Posted 23/08/2007 at 20:32:35
Well said Dave I have watched EFC since 1961 brought my kids up to follow the blue vision, sadly that is all a blur Wyness & Kenwright are doing what the red noses could never do tear the heart out of my club. To all you sad Yes voters enjoy Kirkby and when it falls apart and you are ashamed of what you have done you can come back to the City and support the only other option. I am ashamed of being a blue will never step foot in Kirkby stadium sadly EFC will loose lots of TRUE supporters
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1 Posted 23/08/2007 at 00:19:52
Having absorbed as much as possible of the argument I am amazed how both sides are so bloody confident that theirs is the only way. As I see it there are good and bad points in both arguments plus a mountain of ifs and maybe?s.
Both sides must recognise that for various reasons Goodison is approaching its use by date. When that date arrives we can only hope that we are not resident as the old place comes down around our ears.