ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

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"Would a return of less than a 60% yes vote in the ballot give the Board an acceptable mandate to relocate EFC to Kirkby?"

I couldn't believe the latest poll when I saw it and even more surprised by the latest result.

What country have people been living in? Don't people understand a democracy?

If you get 51% you WIN the vote. Simple as that. None of this "if its under 60% what should we do". I f its over 50% its sorted, simple as.

If not, I'll be ringing Mr Brown to demand a re-election.
Gavin Harris, Wales Posted 23/08/2007 at 23:01:59

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Lyndon

Gavin, it may well turn out to be a "first past the post" vote but it shouldn't be. In a General Election you're not talking about 49% of the electorate being sufficiently alienated as to either leave the country or stop participating in daily life altogether on the back of the result.

Now, of course, I'm not saying that all "No" voters will simply walk away from the club and not go to Kirkby but in the case of this ballot you have the potential for around 40% (possibly more) of your core support (i.e. season ticket holders, Evertonia members and Shareholders) voting against what could (I'm not saying would) be catastrophic for the club in the long term.

That's around 15,000 fans seriously disagreeing with the club's Kirkby vision. 15,000 paying customers who, on a freezing, wet November evening when the Blues are playing Wrexham in the League Cup, might feel that schlepping out to the identikit Tescodrome via the only rail link to Kirkby or waiting in line at the Park & Ride is just far much more hassle than a quick cab ride down to Walton Lane used to be.

Brand them as "not real Evertonians" if you like but I fear that after the 3-year "new stadium effect" wears off it will be this slow attrition in the non-glamour matches that could be a real problem. That not only affects the financial bottom line but it also takes away that famous 12th man that Goodison has become.

And God help us if fortunes on the pitch go south. Any one seen the Riverside on a Saturday these days? More empty seats than you could shake the proverbial at... Overly dramatic? Maybe, but as has been observed so many times, if the Kirkby option was so great, there would have been no need for a vote. And you could argue that we managed to attract such high attendances at Goodison even throughout the bad times before Moyes because there is the feeling that supporting Everton is special, that the club is special, that all that history is worth fighting for. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who feel that a stadium on a retail park in Kirkby ain't gonna be that special and that proud history will have amounted to very little.

Sentimental and emotional all that may be but what else drives you to part with your hard-earned cash to follow a football team across the country and abroad?

David Barks
1 Posted 24/08/2007 at 05:24:25

Lyndon, I respect your opinion, but I was parting with my hard earned cash to fly across the Atlantic thousands of miles to watch the Blues when we hadn’t sniffed the top 10 in years, were favorites to be relegated, and paid to go to the Derby when we hadn’t beaten them for a decade. I understand what you’re saying, but I think that the Evertonians who are currently saying they won’t go to support Everton in Kirkby will come around by the time the stadium opens and support the only club they have ever known. And lets face it regarding stadium attendance, if we do poorly, attendance drops if the team is struggling. If United were struggling they wouldn’t fill their stadium, Chelsea don’t come anywhere near filling their stadium for League Cup matches. I’m not comparing the clubs with ours, just trying to show that even the clubs that win the league don’t fill their stadium for League Cup matches. But let me say that I have respected your opinion throughout this terrible debate, you have always been the most respectful and well spoken for your sides opinion, and have made very valid points that I agree with very often. I simply believe that this will be beneficial for Everton and allow us to move the strong side that we have already built to that next level.

Colin Malone
2 Posted 24/08/2007 at 07:43:32

Gavin, If you dont go, dont blow.

Charlie
3 Posted 24/08/2007 at 07:51:14

Once again Lyndon your speaking total rubbish. A Yes vote is a Yes vote and a No vote is a No vote. This magic 60% figure is something the No voters have hatched up becuase they realise its looking increasing likely a Yes vote will be cast.

Mark Pendleton
4 Posted 24/08/2007 at 08:28:15

What ever anyone else says i have alot of time and respect for Bill Kenwright. But to be honest i wish instead of being the fans man that he is he’d just said "right, we’re off to Kirkby". This whole process has been unbearable.

Phil Yates
5 Posted 24/08/2007 at 09:50:22

Lyndon, are you really comparing us with Middlesbrough? I’m just glad that we are being given the chance to vote and the majority will speak.
Its Evertonians that make a place special, not where it is. Home is where our team plays and i’ll follow wherever they go.

Garry Lloyd
6 Posted 24/08/2007 at 09:56:52

Sorry Lyndon, but if a quick cab ride to Walton is easy why is a quick cab ride to Kirkby? No more expensive to your average fan?
And excuse me but this 12th man we have? How often have you heard the famous Goodison roar on a wet Wednesday against a league cup team? Goodison beraly gets 20,000 when we play in the League Cup so thats no arguemnt, infact, we didnt even get a full house for The Uefa Cup 3 years ago...

Dan Sedlak
7 Posted 24/08/2007 at 10:46:31

59% Yes, 41% No. The turnout was amazingly low - only c25,000 votes (according to the Post). It is outrageous if we move there with the backing of only 15,230 fans.

A.Stewart
8 Posted 24/08/2007 at 10:47:16

Yes, 59% is indeed a mandate to move (even if the move has only been backed by 46% of those eligible to vote), but alienating such a large section of your support base is appalling business practice.

Most businesses flock to a booming city - our club runs away from one. Inspired!

Brian Finnigan
9 Posted 24/08/2007 at 10:49:52

Dan Sedlak....If your figures are correct (I cannot access the Club website for some reason)then 25,000 needs some explaining. What was the total number of fans who were eligible to vote? I have read 36,000 somewhere. If that is the case, the Club is moving to Kirkby having received an endorsement from 42% of those eligible to vote.

How many fans did not receive ballot papers? How many ballot papers were discounted? Why? Something stinks to high heaven and everybody knows it. Some victory!

Steve L
10 Posted 24/08/2007 at 11:00:26

Based on that logic no Government should ever be elected because they only get about 25% of those eligible to vote.

If 11,000 couldn’t be bothered you can’t assume that they wanted to vote one way or the other. It might be that they had no opinion and would accept the result was.

Allan
11 Posted 24/08/2007 at 11:02:58

Number of voting packs dispatched
36,662
Number of votes received 25,761
Number of votes found to be invalid 63
Total number of valid votes 25,698
Turnout 70.27%

Question

Based on the foregoing information, the Board is inclined to pursue the building of a new stadium in Kirkby.

The Board promised to ballot Evertonians to ascertain their views on this move.

The question is: Are you in favour of relocating Everton Football Club to Kirkby?

The Result

Yes 15,230 59.27%
NO 10,468 40.73%

Colin
12 Posted 24/08/2007 at 11:05:55

So the result is what it is - lets all accept it and move on.

(I am waiting for the ’rigged’ and ’fix’ comments now ...)

I for one am sick of the polarised debate - we are all evertonians; lets get on with the football and look forward to our new stadium.
COYB

Dan Sedlak
13 Posted 24/08/2007 at 11:09:56

Brian,

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/08/24/everton-fans-take-us-to-kirkby-64375-19681975/

Paul Turner
14 Posted 24/08/2007 at 11:08:19

So, the waiting is over. We now know our destiny.

Or do we?

The mandate given to the Board is to "pursue the building of a new stadium in Kirkby". This does NOT mean that the move is signed, sealed and delivered, merely that the club has the assent of the Yes voters to continue with the negotiations. As far as I am aware, the exclusivity period with Knowsley/Tesco has now ended, so the club may, if it wishes, discuss other options if they arise...

Dan Sedlak
15 Posted 24/08/2007 at 11:12:47

Steve L,

fair point. But it just seems to me unilkely that 11,000 or almost a third of the electorate would not vote. I’m not suggesting a conspiracy but it just sounds wrong. The initial suspicion is that for whatever reason they did not recieve ballot papers, but surely they would have been on the phone demanding them? I can’t work it out... but it just sounds wrong, however illogical that might sound.

Shaun Kinnair
16 Posted 24/08/2007 at 11:39:27

You know what I had a vote, I was one of the "NO" voters. The "YES" vote won, we move on and look forward to a new stadium. Were not voting in a new Government where we’re talk about a hung parliment, and lets stop talking about a conspiracy ..je, wizz guys (and girls) it was a "YES" learn to accept what has happened because I HAVE!!!

ryan crest
17 Posted 24/08/2007 at 12:17:27

Lyndon, despite what you may think, the purpose of the vote wasn’t to ’alienate’ fans. In fact the opposite was the case - it was to include them.

Entrenched positions and dogmatic arguments create alienation. You’re one of the people who stuck their necks out and argued your case - and you did a good job. But the fact is the no vote was eclipsed by the ’I am not bovvered’ camp - and most people - even the no voters don’t quite feel as strongly as you on the subject.

There will always be a hardcore that can’t accept the result and will want to continue the fight. But hopefully most of the no vote will be big enough to accept the wishes of the majority and move on.

Terrymarsbar
18 Posted 24/08/2007 at 12:23:37

So 10,000 didnt vote...so what..(cue conspiracy theory)...its resounding yes..now we move on.
Can we get back to the football?

We appear to have our best squad of players since 84..lets get behind them..its the team thats our future..so lets be that 12th man
If you dont want to go to Kirkby ..dont go, its your perogative..but FFS dont abuse the people who want to..

Steve Lyth
19 Posted 24/08/2007 at 13:04:23

Terry, your hilarious "dont abuse people", thats all you have done all week ! Your full of double standards fella and remind me very much of those over the park.

Brian Finnigan
20 Posted 24/08/2007 at 12:19:16

This farce was nothing like a General Election, a Local Election or any other kind of election that might be worthy of the name. In what election in this country is there a ballot paper containing the name of only one real candidate? Imagine a General Election where there are only Labour candidates on the ballot paper in all 635(?) seats. Wouldn’t you expect a Labour Government under those circumstances? Even the much derided Councillors on L.C.C. were elected (in most seats) having been selected from at least two candidates on the ballot paper. That is the basis of democracy.

What we now have is a result from a ballot where the ballot paper effectively contained one candidate and 41.5% of the electorate chose to endorse that candidate. Only 70% bothered to "vote".....can you blame any who did not bother in protest at the sham? For anyone to suggest that we were blessed to have been granted a vote in a democratic election by the benign leaders of our Club is an insult to our intelligence. What we took part in was a travesty and the ramifications will be felt for generations to come.

As a result of the manipulation that has taken place the Club will change in the sense that, in the future, many more visitors to the ground will be from outside what has traditionally been our catchment area. Many will still be those generational supporters who moved away years ago for jobs, etc. but many others will be casuals who might live in the famed 4.5 million corridor. It will not take long for the new mix to start to lack that tribal passion that served the Club so well in the past. The Everton I know and which I have supported since childhood will be not be the same again. If I lament it is not for myself, or for the loss of an "election", but for those tens of thousands of children not belonging to the dark side who will be brought up in a City that will soon only contain one Club.

Tom Leover
21 Posted 24/08/2007 at 13:51:48

Brian - even so, more people couldn’t be arsed voting than voted against.

Does that tell you something about the hopeless KEIOC campaign, or just people generally?

Bob Turner
22 Posted 24/08/2007 at 19:45:11

Brian, I think the actions of LCC, KEIOC and Bestway concerning the Loop raised an alternative "candidate", even if it wasn’t formally on the voting slip.

The voters had a choice, go to Kirkby or stay at Goodison (and believe in the Loop development). The voters chose. That’s democracy as far as I can see.