The Mail Bag
Reality check, please
Comments (24)
OK, yes, I'll admit that I am very disappointed about the Fernandes situation. And no doubt Kenwright is and Moyes is and maybe many of the players are. I don't think the club are to blame for it falling through. They worked on a solution which the Prem League says have been tightened as a result of the Tevez affair. And, in the end, a more attractive option was put to Manny. That's it. End of.
My main gripe, aside from all of the conspiracy theorists coming out yet again, is the number of calls for us to sign Riquelme. I don't want him. I don't want him for £10m, £5m or £1m. I don't think he would fit into our squad or the Prem full stop. We would never do well enough to get what he cost us back (and I'm not talking resale i'm talking league position / cup success). Normally if fans heard Moyes was willing to splash alot of what relatively little we have on a player that age there'd be fury. In the past we've lambasted managers for getting what have been quality players of his age on a free.
I'm sure Moyes will have other options. If not, then we'll have to wait until he does. I'm sure Yakubu will sign. Our squad is still far better than it has been for some time. Cahill will be back soonish. Then Vaughan. It's not the end of the world. Let's not panic. And let's not use any and every situation to blame the management, the board, the tea lady and her neighbour. I feel sorry for BK and DM. If it rains tomorrow that's their fault for sure.
Get real people.
Mark Pendleton, Posted 27/08/2007 at 20:36:05
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Mark Pendleton
2 Posted 27/08/2007 at 21:56:48
2 Posted 27/08/2007 at 21:56:48
Thanks David - another sane person thank goodness. On another thread i just heard that EFC offering £18m for Manny in the end "smacks of desperation"!!!! The board are tight, they don’t back Moyes? The board spend too much on players? aaaaaagggghhhhh!
Mike Hughes
3 Posted 27/08/2007 at 21:49:17
3 Posted 27/08/2007 at 21:49:17
You forgot to mention the Glen Keeley sending-off, the Clive Thomas "disallowed goal" as well as the Don Hutchison "goal that wasn’t" - all the fault of Kenwright and Moyes! These conspiracy theories are ludicrous and undermine the credibility of anybody using them in an argument. BK and DM may make mistakes but I believe they are honest mistakes. I agree with your points and hope we sign Yakubu. Our squad is definitely better than it’s been for years. Unfortunately, most Premiership clubs could probably say the same thing. DM seems to be able to foster team spirit better than most and in our circumstances that may be the main key to success.
Neil Pearse
4 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:05:26
4 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:05:26
Michael et al, love the "attempted explanation" editorialising on your news item on the Everton statement! (Par for the course.)
What did you expect them to say? How much closer can they get to saying "we had an agreement in place with Fernandes, Benfica and the FA - and then the player, prompted by his owner, did a runner at the last minute for more money"?
What did you expect them to say? How much closer can they get to saying "we had an agreement in place with Fernandes, Benfica and the FA - and then the player, prompted by his owner, did a runner at the last minute for more money"?
Allan Hounsgaard
5 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:21:50
5 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:21:50
I’m at the point now were I don’t care about onfield affairs. Any victory of any kind on the field can’t give me any pleasure as long as Kenwright is still in charge. Whatever it takes, he must be removed, and if he was an real EVERTONIAN he would know this himself.
tom potts
6 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:26:57
6 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:26:57
so long manny here comes kenny miller from celtic for 3m much cheaper well done the board
up the blues !!!!!!!!!
up the blues !!!!!!!!!
tom potts
7 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:26:57
7 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:26:57
so long manny here comes kenny miller from celtic for 3m much cheaper well done the board
up the blues !!!!!!!!!
up the blues !!!!!!!!!
Tony Marsh
8 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:30:51
8 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:30:51
How many more of these Crazy conspiracy stories as you call them David will it take to convinince you all is not well with our present board.Story or fact Manny has signed for Valencia after our club told us he would be in the squad for reading.We have been dupped again.Kidded ,Conned,Shafted call it what you like but it aint no conspiracy story it has actually happened.Its happened before and it will happen again as long as the guilable fans like yourself dont wake up to it.
Neil Pearse
9 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:43:48
9 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:43:48
So let me be clear Tony, so that I understand you: do you think that Kenwright did not try to sign Fernandes, only pretended to, and then lied to us that he was really trying? (Duped, conned etc. etc..)
Not that he was incompetent or unlucky or naive or anything else -but that he DELIBERATELY deceived us about Fernandes? That Fernandes was never coming to Everton, and that Kenwright knew this?
That seems to be what you are claiming, so I wanted to check.
Not that he was incompetent or unlucky or naive or anything else -but that he DELIBERATELY deceived us about Fernandes? That Fernandes was never coming to Everton, and that Kenwright knew this?
That seems to be what you are claiming, so I wanted to check.
Alan Clarke
10 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:54:56
10 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:54:56
Neil, look at the timeline of events with this ordeal. When were we told Fernandes was signing? Is it not at all fishy that we were told the signing was in the next 24 hours right before the Kirkby vote was due? Is it just pure coincidence or bad luck?
I don’t think the conspiracy theories should be totally discounted just because Tony Marsh suggests it.
I don’t think the conspiracy theories should be totally discounted just because Tony Marsh suggests it.
David Barks
11 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:54:30
11 Posted 27/08/2007 at 22:54:30
Just last week Tony you said the two would be rolled out on Thursday the same time that the vote results were announced. Now you claim you were right all along that we were never going to sign him. But we did have a fee agreed, it was the FA that were holding up the deal not allowing his registration to be completed. Or try this one, perhaps it was him and his agent who were stalling us waiting for Valencia to come in and pay them more money. He turned his back on us, that’s all there is to it. All summer you have been saying we won’t buy anyone, we’re skint, yadda yadda yadda. But we bought Baines after you said we had no money, we are completing the signing of Yakubu after you said we wouldn’t sign anyone, or do you blame Kenwright for Englands policy on granting work permits as well.
Neil Pearse
12 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:01:05
12 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:01:05
Alan, I don’t think for one moment that the Fernandes signing was a pure charade by Bill. That’s just ridiculous. For one thing - Bill’s charade nearly failed, since the player almost signed! And by some accounts we almost paid £18M for him! (And how did he get Benfica to agree to say that they had accepted our offer for Fernandes if we hadn’t really made one?) We can forget that nonsense.
I think, as has been said elsewhere on the site (including by me), that we certainly (obviously!) ’jumped the gun’ on announcing that we’d got Fernandes. Now that may be because we sincerely believed that we had signed him (Benfica had accepted our offer, Fernandes had accepted personal terms etc.). And it may be that we were also influenced by getting some good news out before the Kirkby vote.
The ’grand conspiracy’ is probably then that the Board really tried to get Fernandes, they thought we’d got him, and they jumped the gun on announcing it (perhaps not for the best of motives). Not great, I admit, but not exactly a hanging and flogging offence.
I think, as has been said elsewhere on the site (including by me), that we certainly (obviously!) ’jumped the gun’ on announcing that we’d got Fernandes. Now that may be because we sincerely believed that we had signed him (Benfica had accepted our offer, Fernandes had accepted personal terms etc.). And it may be that we were also influenced by getting some good news out before the Kirkby vote.
The ’grand conspiracy’ is probably then that the Board really tried to get Fernandes, they thought we’d got him, and they jumped the gun on announcing it (perhaps not for the best of motives). Not great, I admit, but not exactly a hanging and flogging offence.
Alan Clarke
13 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:17:50
13 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:17:50
It was my ’jump the gun’ comment. Why did they jump the gun? As I’ve written elsewhere, we obviously were nowhere near signing him within 24 hours. They jumped the gun in time for the Kirkby vote HOPING the deal would go through not because they believed it. It was obviously nowhere near completion when that comment was made. I believe the club did want to sign Fernandes but we were still misled.
Neil Pearse
14 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:23:09
14 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:23:09
Fair point Alan - and thanks for clarifying your ’jump the gun’ point. To whate extent we were misled depends on how far away they thought we were from securing Fernandes. I guess we’ll never know.
But it is normal to announce a player ’subject to personal terms and medical’ when a bid has been accepted (e.g. that’s what Boro did with Yakubu). And since Benfica had announced that they had accepted our bid for Fernandes, our announcement is not completely extraordinary. Especially as it appears we’d also agreed personal terms with Fernandes himself.
Of course, we’d only got half the player...
But it is normal to announce a player ’subject to personal terms and medical’ when a bid has been accepted (e.g. that’s what Boro did with Yakubu). And since Benfica had announced that they had accepted our bid for Fernandes, our announcement is not completely extraordinary. Especially as it appears we’d also agreed personal terms with Fernandes himself.
Of course, we’d only got half the player...
David Barks
15 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:24:42
15 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:24:42
Alan,
And the Club were obviously misled by Fernandes. If he had told Valencia that Everton is where he wanted to be there would be nothing to talk about right now other than the new addition of Manuel Fernandes. But he chose to go to Valencia when they came calling and turned his back on the team that has been working to make sure all the registration was done correctly to avoid anything like West Ham and Tevez. He turned his back on the players he played with last year and was training with this past week. He turned his back on the fans who have been begging for him to sign.
And the Club were obviously misled by Fernandes. If he had told Valencia that Everton is where he wanted to be there would be nothing to talk about right now other than the new addition of Manuel Fernandes. But he chose to go to Valencia when they came calling and turned his back on the team that has been working to make sure all the registration was done correctly to avoid anything like West Ham and Tevez. He turned his back on the players he played with last year and was training with this past week. He turned his back on the fans who have been begging for him to sign.
Karl Masters
16 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:21:32
16 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:21:32
GET OVER IT!
Either he took a better offer after accepting ours or his half owners kept fishing and he had no real choice. Doesn’t matter. He’s not gonna be playing for us.
Just hope we can get somebody in. We appear to have the cash, but very little time. Maybe we need a stop gap till January. For all his faults, Tommy Grav may be the one...
Hope the Club have learned something from this though.
Either he took a better offer after accepting ours or his half owners kept fishing and he had no real choice. Doesn’t matter. He’s not gonna be playing for us.
Just hope we can get somebody in. We appear to have the cash, but very little time. Maybe we need a stop gap till January. For all his faults, Tommy Grav may be the one...
Hope the Club have learned something from this though.
Neil Pearse
17 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:31:25
17 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:31:25
And even in terms of all the complaints of being slow on this. Let’s stop for a second. West Ham nearly got docked points and got relegated for screwing up exactly this kind of deal (some think they should have).
Taking a careful approach here is exactly what I would have wanted from the Everton management. I think we would REALLY have had something to complain about it if we’d done this in haste and fallen afoul of the FA at a later date. Then I for one would definitely be joining you all in calling for BK’s and KW’s heads!
Taking a careful approach here is exactly what I would have wanted from the Everton management. I think we would REALLY have had something to complain about it if we’d done this in haste and fallen afoul of the FA at a later date. Then I for one would definitely be joining you all in calling for BK’s and KW’s heads!
David Barks
18 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:36:35
18 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:36:35
Honestly Karl,
Gravesen might not be a bad short term replacement. He wouldn’t cost much and the signing could be done quickly. He’s not the best in the world, but would be the worst either. Could definitely cover until January.
Gravesen might not be a bad short term replacement. He wouldn’t cost much and the signing could be done quickly. He’s not the best in the world, but would be the worst either. Could definitely cover until January.
Karl Masters
19 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:39:40
19 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:39:40
I wasn’t joking about Gravesen, David. Think he’d probably jump at he chance, especially with some European action. I know it’s a while back, but he was outstanding in that half season before he left. He would n’t cost a lot and it would give the Club a chance for a proper look round rather than rushing in and buying a donkey.
I know it’s not ideal, but we are where we are. As for Fernandes, I think the fee was getting stupid ( remember on here in say June we were debating if he was worth 12m Euros, £8m in real money and suddenly we were gonna pay more than double that???? ) and I think we would either have been used, like West Ham were with Tevez, as a stepping stone or he’s the sort of person that would have buggered off anyway with no concern for us. Could have been a lucky escape.
I know it’s not ideal, but we are where we are. As for Fernandes, I think the fee was getting stupid ( remember on here in say June we were debating if he was worth 12m Euros, £8m in real money and suddenly we were gonna pay more than double that???? ) and I think we would either have been used, like West Ham were with Tevez, as a stepping stone or he’s the sort of person that would have buggered off anyway with no concern for us. Could have been a lucky escape.
David Barks
20 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:50:47
20 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:50:47
The more I think about it in a rational mindset the more I think we dodged a bullit, like you say Karl. The Benfica supporters have been saying what type of a person he is, and it appears he just showed us as well. I wouldn’t mind Gravesen back at a low price, and save that money until we can find a proper midfielder, ideally a winger.
Steven Pugh
21 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:41:10
21 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:41:10
his agent made the final decision, not manny. probably would have been another anelka saga , one season then forced to move on for a signing on fee,to his agents of course. great future for this player if he can get rid of the leeches
Karl Masters
22 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:54:04
22 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:54:04
If we’re talking about possible targets, the Austrian fella at Wigan, Paul Scharner, has always impressed me. Good goalscorer, like Cahill, would be good cover for Tim while he’s either out injured or playing for Os. Mid twenties, quick and I reckon £5m would get him. Just a thought.
Nelly Vaughan
23 Posted 28/08/2007 at 00:22:36
23 Posted 28/08/2007 at 00:22:36
Gravesen arrrggghhhh!!!...The man only played one good game in ten when he was here the first time. If Moyes resigns Gravesen it shows how desperate we really are. Hasn?t exactly set the world alight since he left has he. Watched him playing for Celtic rezzies in mid week(via Setanta) he was awful...Tommy Gravesen...You?re all havin a laff !! m
Brendan McLaughlin
24 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:26:27
24 Posted 27/08/2007 at 23:26:27
Fairytale of Valencia: Early one morning the Manager of Valencia awakens & says to his wife: "I had an awful dream last night ? I dreamt that I had forgotten to sign a quality mid-fielder... Oh Shit!" he says, "it wasn't a dream... I really do need one." So he jumps out of bed & logs on to www.qualitymidfielders.com & of course Fernandes's name pops up & within 24 hours the rest, as they say, is history.
Meanwhile, back in reality land, Valencia expressed an interest (conjecture) in Fernandes some time ago. They weren't prepared to pay the asking price initially because back then nobody, not even Everton the club he had spent 6 months on loan with were interested. Valencia ask however to be kept informed. All of a sudden Everton's interesr becomes concrete. Fernandes's agent contacts Valencia to say, "Manny's going to Everton. He would prefer Valencia but you need to meet the asking price..." Valencia meet the asking price.
If you still have doubts, just go back a bit & substitute Sissoko for Fernandes. At the end of the day, neither player really wanted to come to us. As a certain BB contestant would say "DEAL WITH IT"
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1 Posted 27/08/2007 at 21:55:53