Anthony absolutely totally agree ,sick to fuckin death of hearing about them four twats ,we are now getting a team together that,s gonna make them sick of hearing about us,can,t wait to see sickly bollocks mourinhos face when we stuff them and taggarts, but the best will be that little fat prick over the park.come on blues we,re on our way .

hey te calm down calm down i do agree.3-0 home and away against the darkside it?ll be heaven

As much as I wish what you say is true a basic fact is they get richer each year so the gap will grow most players go for the cash so if we want a player and one of the richer clubs want the same player we are out bid either transfer fee or wages but if we could break in to this elite then who knows if we had cash and lets not forget the refs are swayed by this giving them the benefit in decisions

I agree Anthony we will eventually break this imaginary quadrupole. Talk of the big four really only started about two or three seasons ago but has picked up pace this season. Lazy sycophantic media drones are to blame for this, however most of us remember the traditional big five; Ourselves, RS Arsenal, Spurs, and Man U, again another media creation. I get the impression that this season things are starting to change, there are a number of competitive clubs is the premier league ready to challenge; Everton, Aston Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, Man City and Blackburn and then a whole host of hard to beat teams in Wigan, Reading, West Ham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth and Bolton amongst others. None of the above teams will lie down and let the so called big four walk over them.
Everton were amongst the big spenders this year in the premier league, as well as Spurs and Man City, surprisingly we were amongst the clubs that brought in the most players.
This could be the year that the big four theory gets put to rest.

Here in Texas my main channel for football is FSC. 2004 -05 all of the panelists on the "Fox Sports News" predicted EFC for the drop - egg on faces or what. At no time during that season was any credit given to Everton for a sterling job. It was all about the "Big 4". Scottish presenter Bobby McMahon was the worst. So, yes to your initial question.

Fast forward to today. The same slant is apparent. The "Big 4" get heavy coverage. The so called "supporting acts" barely get a mention. Case in point: Chelsea at Goodison, 2006. We fought well, we matched CFC on all fronts - outplayed them at times. The report focus? Lampard and Drogba’s goals. Of how great they were. No mention of the fact they HAD to be great goals to beat us that day.

The rich get richer is true. We all know it is. Most players, either through greed (many) or through the prospect of playing for a team playing in the Champions League regularly will choose a "Big 4" club even if that results in them starting fewer games, sitting on the bench more often than not or even missing squad selection entirely. I think, or rather hope, Everton have maybe changed that trend. Case in point: Arteta. Despite media hype about his options he re-signed for us, Everton. Obviously I am not privvy to the details, I presume he received a major financial reward for his act. If the media are to be believed he would surely have received even more at one of the "high profile" clubs but at what cost to him? Starting every game, sitting on the bench or missing out on selection? Forgive me my short term memory loss - and the fact I do not want to reformat this post searching for the answer - but did not another current player (Yobo springs to mind) do the same? Baines could have chosen Newcastle, who probably offered him better money then we. Fact: he did not, he signed for us. Tommy could have sat on the sidelines at Celtic commanding his due. Fact: He did not. He chose to join us on loan. His reasons? Again, I do not know but it might be because it was he saw a chance to play on a more regular basis for a team competing in Europe, admittedy on the lower rung of the two stepped ladder.

To paraphrase Roy, "The Big 4 sway a referee’s decision." (Hope you do not mind Roy). I agree. I was able to watch the Arsenal v. Portsmouth game this weekend. I saw an Arsenal player (Cole?) clatter a Portsmouth player from behind but the ref played advantage as Portsmouth had the ball and benefitted. One of the TV commentators even stated that the Arsenal player would recieve a yellow when play stopped. He did not. Yet when the situation was reversed, a Portsmouth player clattered an Arsenal player, when the ball went out he received a yellow (Glen Johnson?). Double standards? The same commentator said so as much. From the games I have been able to watch so far this season I do think the standard has improved. I think Mark Clattenburg (spelling) was the MOTM for me on opening day. He kept a calm head and there were no bookings. He controlled the match. let it flow and talked to the players when and if he felt it necessary. Personally I thought a couple of players from both sides were fortunate but it also led to a game where the players, not the referee, were in the spotlight. Long may it continue - though I doubt it when I look at referee performances as a whole.

Long rant I know but maybe, just maybe times are achanging...

Sick of people talking about the BIG 4 and we are not part of it? Breaking into the BIG 4 is not a 1 season thingy. We have to do it every season.

Want to be part of it? In modern football, you need SUGAR DADDIES!

Stuff the sugar daddies, Moyes is doing a fantastic job without the money (apart from the recent windfall given to Moyes) but slowly but surely he’s building a very good team...I know the emphasis is on "slowly" but he’s doing it FOR SURE....listened to Fox Phone In tonight...nothing but praise for Moyes/Everton.
Early days I know but based on results so far...I think it’s in our hands if we want to win something this season.....Chelsea are not (yet) at their usual form, Man Utd couldn’t score if you gave them an own-goal and Spurs are crap, Arsenal have Lehman (ha) and Liverpool...well (they could be a real threat this season) ....... but if we can just put consistent results together, if Yakubu and AJ can gel, if Cahill comes back all guns blazing...if if if I know.....but I really don’t think it’s about the money, it’s about the performance on the field.....the above teams have spent fortunes and they are not guaranteed to win....it’s in our hands, actually David Moyes hands.....PROUD TO BE BLUE!!!

The Big Four isn't set in stone. It will be the big 5, 6 etc in the not too distant future.

Gary, I’m Stateside too, and FSC is my only real portal for footy over here (apart from toffeeweb). The overtly biased opinion of the presenters towards the ’big four’ is even more evident here than it is back home in the UK. The overload especially of all things Chelsea and Man U ruins what could potentially be a great introduction to English footbal to many Americans. Bobby McMahon is one of the worst offfenders, his so called expert analysis is a joke. This guys highest level of playing was at junior level in Scotland, but he is consider the number one pundit on the channel. He has a habit of putting down any team outside the fabled ’big four’. Just as bad is the Fox Football Fone-In, in which the two English presenters are wait for it....... Chelsea and Man U supporters. At least the RS fan isn’t on it anymore. Again this program rejoices in all things ’big four’ and anything else isn’t reported on indepth. Its sad to see that a whole new audience if the beautiful game is brainwashed into thinking that there are only 4 teams in England which they can support.
A hope for the future is that in England there is always is a big 4-5, with different teams being apart of this exclusive gang. It was only 6-7 years ago when Newcastle and Leeds were members of a big 4, and look at them now. 20 years ago we were the leading member of the ’platinium 5’, achieved by a little bit of cash, but most importantly a great small squad that produced great results. So there is hope for us yet.

The fact is the wankers at sky and the hacks in the tabloids have created this elite big four tag and convinced the public they are invincible and the rest of the league are just there to make the numbers up. But what pisses me off is the premiere league managers accepting their fate before a fucking ball as been kicked. This big four thing is part true (through money, if it was through trophy?s Chelsea wouldn?t be there) but part myth driven by 20 year old fucking middle class college dropouts who sit in front of sky cameras and dream up fucking lies and spin in some pokey little London press room.

i dnt remember newcastle being remembered as the top 4 an im sure they finished in the top 4 at the end of 2 or 3 seasons on the run. or am i wrong? im not entirely sure.

Hasnt there always been a Top 2 or 3 before now? ie Ourselves and LFC in the 80’s, Leeds & Arsenal in the 70’s etc. I completely agree that SKY push an unrealistic agenda, but the fact is that there has always been a heirarchy in our domestic league and I think it may be a case of sour grapes on our part that we are not at this moment in time mentioned alongside the obvious contenders. Everton simply have not kept pace with the ’top 4’ and therefore find ourselves on the outer edge of the media scope. This we all hope will change this very season and we shall regain our rightful position in English football and eventually European football. Until that time, lets not dwell on the media bleating and the snide remarks of the so called experts. This is our club and hopefully our season of rejoining the ’elite’. COYB.

What really gets on my tits is when the so called ’pundits’ claim that only Spurs can break the top 4 domination???? WTF? And then you get the arseholes on TalkSport who claim that Newcastle, Villa, Man City and Blackburn will be vying for the other European places. Its like we’re the invisible team. No mention of us being 3rd in the table. But hey, lets not look at the table because the top 4 are not in the top 4 places. cnuts

With a 20-odd points gap last year between Man U and us/Spurs, and a 10-odd points gap between 4th and us, media pundits can be forgiven for referring to the current members of this "elite" group as the "Big 4" - they play more games (particularly in Europe), win more trophies, they earn more money and can afford beter players and higher wages, and are obviously going to be on the TV more, which is where a lot of that money comes from.

This season, the reality is that any decent club who have ambitions of breaking into that group (and don?t forget we blew our go at that 2 years ago) have either got to win cup trophies and/or to close the huge gap that opened up last year. What depresses me is the way some managers accept the inevitable and think of 5th place finish as the best they can aspire to. This season it may be, but they have to focus on closing that league gap/win trophies before they can be seen as credible replacements/additons to the media-convenient Big 4.

The reason pundits mention the big four is more to do with the hidden agenda of the group of 14 clubs.
They persistently lobby on behalf of Europes so called grand old teams.
What they are after is , one team from one large city agenda and in time a possible breakaway from domestic football.
The bottom line to grab all the cash for the few.

There are overtures to include Newcastle and Aston Villa because of the large conurbations they derive from.

p.s. Bill Kenwright, David Dein is a so called freind of yours who led this group before falling out with the Arsenal board. Did he not warn you of the repurcussions in moving out of Liverpool?

Hey, hey, hey. I agree with all this anti-big 4 rhetoric. Especially re: the managers themselves resigning to the "5th at best" mentality. However I think it is early doors yet, and our current league position is flattering because we have only played pretty mediocre teams so far. Judging by the Blackburn/Reading games we are not a top quality side yet, nor do we have the strength in depth required to sustain the inevitable fatigue/injuries of a long UEFA cup campaign. Moyes has done a fantastic job and I really rate him as one of the best 4 managers in the league. Let?s hope the media muppets continue to ignore us otherwise we will lose him. If we keep our injury list empty we will continue to grind out hard-fought narrow victories and maybe, just maybe surprise a few people. If we have to delve much deeper into the squad we will be mid-table at best.

This thread is a bit of an extended version of my reponse to my reply to the ’will everton win anything in my lifetime’ thread. Which is good because I thought I might get ridiculed!

Basically, as I said in the post, it’s only the last 3/4 seasons that have seen Liverpool and Chelsea consistently in the top 4 - before that Leeds and Newcastle usually finished above them! Also the gap between 4th and 5th is generally very small (2/3 points).

Its true that these teams have more money to spend - but I think to an extent you get to a point where you can’t really strengthen effectively. Liverpool/Chelsea/
an U can go and spend £30 million on a player but come the end of a season the points difference between them and us is still generally similar. In fact you could argue that we’ve narrowed the gap whilst spending less money.
On that note its very realistic that Spurs, us or Newcastle could challenge for champions league football.

The emergence of the sky money and some teams having the financial clout to buy a few players has actually opened the premiership up a bit , .. remember a couple of years ago , pre moysey ,that our only option it seemed to play up front was Steve Watson , . Ok , we’ve come a long way since then but what I personally think we’ll see happening is a few teams will have good class , honest players , who can compete for every position , who want to play every week , not just keep chelski’s or manure’s bench warm , and this is where the skills and abilities of the managers and coaches will come to the fore , As has been sai many times before , if you have the money to spend £50m - £100m on players then you can buy success , How many of the so called " top 4 " managers could have got the 2005 Everton squad into 4th place ? I would personally place DM alongside any manager in England as far as ability is concerned , The man is 100% dedicated to his job and is the best asset we have at our club , If he’s allowed to strengthen the squad further over the next 12 months then I don’t just hope we can break into the " top 4 " I expect us to be there , A nice start would be a cup competition this season

It?s pure propaganda that you need lots of money to be part of the Big 4. In fact, it?s not even the Big 4....only 3 teams have won the Prem in the past 10 years.

The Big 3 consist of Man U, Chelsea, and Arsenal. Since Abromavich took over Chelsea, Arsenal have spent a net total of £5m on players, lowered their wage bill, AND won the Premiership.

Interestingly, Wenger has actually made £20m net profit on players since he took over Arsenal.

Hope is not lost. It?s not all doom and gloom for clubs who haven?t got the spending power of Chelsea and Man u.

Money talks, Chelski, Manure, Red Shite can all buy their way to success, Arsnal can to an extent but cant compete at the same level.

But it has its drawbacks, a squad of high paid, internationals dont like not being on the bench or not even in it, look at the trouble chelski had last season and I think Red shite will suffer from this to this season.

There are a host of clubs like us who altho cant compete financialy with the big 3 have a good squad of versatile players that perform conistantly. With our excellent team spirit and depth we can compete on the field with the likes of manure etc.

We now have a squd which is capable of being changed and improved if someone is having an off day, Jags for cars, Gravo for nevile, Cahill for Arteta etc, which is something we didnt have last year.

We also have a very solid defence, a good spine in the team now as well. I think we can break into the top 4 if we are consistant.

The simple fact for me is "the top four" are richer, i agree, but the reason we have done so well is we have one of the best sets of staff in the league, from the manager to the chairman, and to be fair we have done all we can financially, we have a great squad now that can do better, this top 4 business sums up them dicks at sky, they are media bullshit central, who else would have Jamie Deadcrap on a panel??. But with a possible new stadium, training ground etc, we also are trying to attract big money foreigners to buy us, and unfortunately in the game today, we will have to look at this to consistently become the best, money is power, we can just be glad that we have the right people in the right places right now, moyes is great, and kenwright has had way too much critiscism. I hate that football is becoming a business, but we either take it on board or be left behind.

The problem isn’t the big 4, but G14.
This self serving plutocracy is a cancer within the game and is rightly in Platini’s sights.

bbc are the worst when it comes to anti everton!!!

on sunday football focus, that gimp of a brummie tw@t started to read out the top 4 of the table.




" RS, arsenal, and chelsea in 4th"

what about us in 3rd???

what problem has the BBc got with everton???

people think im paranoid but its starting to do my head in now

I thought it was hilarious when i watched motd2 on sunday,and adrian said there are 4 teams on 10 points,l?pool,arsenal,chelsea in 4th with man city just behind them in 5th.
But i have to be honest, i enjoy it when people right us off, i think moyes loves it to,because it must occupy a few minutes of his team talk.
When we were sat in the top for in 04/05,every pundit going said they wont stay there,overtime they will drop down,but we did it.
Merseyside derby, the pundits didnt know how to handle us winning 3-0,all they could talk about was liverpools poor defending.
Same this season will do me,underdogs will prosper.

Im ever the optomist and i really believe that this season there may well be only 10 pts between 1st and 5th, the so called big guns with big money have filled there squad with so many foreigners that its inevitable they will drop points, chelsea villa, man utd man city, and so on, dont be supprised if we turn over utd on the 15th the gap is closing, and at everton we have superb team spirit and a nucleous of players in understanding, moyes will be eyeing fourth without a doubt, third is not beyond the realms either, at home we are difficult to beat and on the road there are signs that we can hold on if we take a lead, the futures bright the futures blue.

I wrote the trophy in lifetime thing, and I have to say I am now rather embarrassed to have referred to it as the "big four". I wasn’t subconsciously giving up on our future, and I apologise for a misleading comment. I actually prefer supporting a club with less money. I like the fact that we don’t swipe players through the turnstiles, and barcode them in the Newcastle and Spurs way. I like paying 460 quid for my season ticket, and I like watching players that have joined the club for the club and not to fill their pockets.