The Mail Bag
Through-balls
Comments (23)
Having watched Arteta develop into a great player over the past two and a half seasons, I have noticed one thing that he does not do: through-balls. I haven't seen him pick out many defense-splitting passes and this is suprising considering his passing range. We have seen it with Gravesen in the past and Fernandes last season but not so much from Mikel.
Maybe it is not his game. It may be because he plays out wide but, looking at Piennar, he seemed to be picking out AJ with a few good passes. I'm actually glad Arteta moved out wide and can't understand why people want him in the middle of the park. He is far too talented to play the central dictating midfield role. He is someone who likes move with the ball and use his dribbling to his advantage.
It is good that we now have Gravesen in the middle because he is someone who will pick out a through-ball and spray passes across the park. If it's a choice between Ossie or Pienaar, I'd go for Pienaar because he is quicker, more skillful and can pick out a pass.
I think we are going to see this season how good Andy Johnson really is. With a settled strike-partner and creative midfielders like Gravesen, Arteta and Pienaar, we will be playing to his strengths. I have critisised him in the past but we have to realise that the service hasn't been great.
Connor Rohrer, Posted 06/09/2007 at 15:30:39
Comments
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Dave OBrien
2 Posted 06/09/2007 at 17:18:31
2 Posted 06/09/2007 at 17:18:31
Osman has 2 goals this season, he is extremely skillful in patches. Peinaar Looks like he could come good but come on.......better than Leon?
Mark Parsons
3 Posted 06/09/2007 at 17:19:55
3 Posted 06/09/2007 at 17:19:55
Sheffield Utd at home last season, when AJ won the penalty?
It depends where he playes, he is out on the wing at the moment, so in his favoured central role maybe he could do it more.
It depends where he playes, he is out on the wing at the moment, so in his favoured central role maybe he could do it more.
Ajay Timothy
4 Posted 06/09/2007 at 17:44:13
4 Posted 06/09/2007 at 17:44:13
Not sure what everyone sees in Osman. The number of times he misses a sitter and shoots over the bar or when he attempts to dribble past defenders and runs into them does not warrant the number of starts he gets. Pienaar just looks too lightweight
Connor Rohrer
5 Posted 06/09/2007 at 19:08:19
5 Posted 06/09/2007 at 19:08:19
Pablo I could have made that pass against Man utd. I have to admit though Mark that was a good pass against sheff utd I’d just like to see it more if you no what I mean.
Dave, Osman may have scored 2 goals but he has been very average for 3 of the 4 games he started. His performance against Spurs was top notch but we rarerly see that from Leon nowadays. Pienaar is alot more skillful and has more pace so I would pick him over Leon. You have to be ahead of the rest to come through the Ajax youth system and Pienaar has proved that. Pienaar is no lighter than Osman so it wouldnt be a problem switching them.
Dave, Osman may have scored 2 goals but he has been very average for 3 of the 4 games he started. His performance against Spurs was top notch but we rarerly see that from Leon nowadays. Pienaar is alot more skillful and has more pace so I would pick him over Leon. You have to be ahead of the rest to come through the Ajax youth system and Pienaar has proved that. Pienaar is no lighter than Osman so it wouldnt be a problem switching them.
nick heady
6 Posted 06/09/2007 at 19:21:03
6 Posted 06/09/2007 at 19:21:03
We need to weigh them
Tim Kelly
7 Posted 06/09/2007 at 19:19:39
7 Posted 06/09/2007 at 19:19:39
Its a bit early to start saying how much better Pienaar is than Ossie - on the strength of one start. He did look good against Bolton, and I for one would pick him for now. But I was also delighted when Ossie came on. I am not always his greatest fan, but I think at is best hes a very elusive and intelligent player. As we were sitting in the carpark outside the Reebok Barry Horne (I think) put his finger right on it: he said "Ossie came on and started popping up in holes all over the place, causing problems". As his best, thats what Ossie gives us.
(if we ignore the glaring miss for now)
(if we ignore the glaring miss for now)
Connor Rohrer
8 Posted 06/09/2007 at 19:46:47
8 Posted 06/09/2007 at 19:46:47
I dont really base my opinion on one game since I have watched them both since they where young kids. I have seen Pienaar at his best competing against the likes of Viera and Gerrard in the Champions league and you could see then what a talent he was. Obviously injuries and lack of form have stalled his career a bit but I think this is the season he can really get back to his best. Osman flourished in his first two seasons but last season he was poor and his performances bar Spurs have been very average.
I agree with you that when Osman came on he had an impact but this always seems to be the case. He gets dropped, comes on as sub and turns the game and then goes back to his average self of falling over everytime he gets the ball. For me you have to earn your place and cameo’s are not proving yourself. Dont get me wrong if Pienaar plays poorly then Ossie should be back in but Pienaar had an impact in the first half definatly and deserves another go.
I dont know if its just me but I think we are in desperate need for a bit of pace especially on the break and thats what Pienaar offers. I like Osman but I think he needs to take his place more seriously in the team because he definatly has the talent.
I agree with you that when Osman came on he had an impact but this always seems to be the case. He gets dropped, comes on as sub and turns the game and then goes back to his average self of falling over everytime he gets the ball. For me you have to earn your place and cameo’s are not proving yourself. Dont get me wrong if Pienaar plays poorly then Ossie should be back in but Pienaar had an impact in the first half definatly and deserves another go.
I dont know if its just me but I think we are in desperate need for a bit of pace especially on the break and thats what Pienaar offers. I like Osman but I think he needs to take his place more seriously in the team because he definatly has the talent.
Stevie Kay
9 Posted 06/09/2007 at 20:53:12
9 Posted 06/09/2007 at 20:53:12
Having seen Arteta prior to coming to Everton he had all the ability and skill and played for good teams but was very unfortunate to pick up injuries. It appears that Pienaar before coming to Everton has had a simiar journey playing for very good teams and being an excellent prospect however suffering with injury.
After Moysey has struck up a simial deal for Steve we can only live in hope that there is a similar outcome and once settled he has a impact to that of Arteta.
After Moysey has struck up a simial deal for Steve we can only live in hope that there is a similar outcome and once settled he has a impact to that of Arteta.
Allan Hobbs
10 Posted 06/09/2007 at 21:23:11
10 Posted 06/09/2007 at 21:23:11
I agree with Connor, I think some of you have taken his comments a bit literally. Arteta doesn’t make that many through passes for people to run onto, thats a fact. He does tend to pass square or cross for people, but rarely plays a decent through ball.
Pienaar is a better player thsn Ossie too, when he played for Ajax he was better than Ossie’s ever been for us. Too lightweight? Cesc Fabregas anyone?!
Pienaar is a better player thsn Ossie too, when he played for Ajax he was better than Ossie’s ever been for us. Too lightweight? Cesc Fabregas anyone?!
Matt Willey
11 Posted 06/09/2007 at 22:47:33
11 Posted 06/09/2007 at 22:47:33
Sometimes I wonder what people expect from our Mikel ... Connor wants him cutting inside and threading balls through to the strikers... Moyes wants him tracking back and scoring more regularly ...
Yes he is our best player but NOW we have other good players to compliment him... yes, he can do pretty much anything in terms of his ability but he shouldn’t be seen as a one man team...
There’s a wide pitch out there and I want to see quality wing play... it is so exciting to see a wizard of this ’art’ and really I can only recall Trevor Steven in the last 25 years who was anywhere near to Arteta in ability....
Personally I like to see him making a fool of a fullback, then switching wings and leaving the other fullback on their arse too.. generally he delivers with this pretty consistently. In terms of players worth the match fee alone he is up there with the best.
Yes he is our best player but NOW we have other good players to compliment him... yes, he can do pretty much anything in terms of his ability but he shouldn’t be seen as a one man team...
There’s a wide pitch out there and I want to see quality wing play... it is so exciting to see a wizard of this ’art’ and really I can only recall Trevor Steven in the last 25 years who was anywhere near to Arteta in ability....
Personally I like to see him making a fool of a fullback, then switching wings and leaving the other fullback on their arse too.. generally he delivers with this pretty consistently. In terms of players worth the match fee alone he is up there with the best.
Connor Rohrer
12 Posted 06/09/2007 at 23:24:13
12 Posted 06/09/2007 at 23:24:13
Matt, I dont think its hard to play a through ball when playing on the right or the left. Pienaar is capable as he showed when he sent AJ clear so I dont know why Arteta couldnt. And he cuts inside anyway so I dont know what your going on about.
People find it hard to critisise Arteta but when anyone else makes a mistake there quick to critisise. I like to look at both the players positives and negatives.
People find it hard to critisise Arteta but when anyone else makes a mistake there quick to critisise. I like to look at both the players positives and negatives.
Brendan McLaughlin
13 Posted 06/09/2007 at 23:28:27
13 Posted 06/09/2007 at 23:28:27
Let’s be realistic, apart from Arteta our midfield is pretty crap.
Graveson is (and I’m delighted to see him back by the way) a short term fix.
Carsley (an absolute gem of a signing by Moyes) is in the twilight of his career.
Osman, great feet but too lightweight. Surely we can do something about that.
Pienaar. The next AVM. I’m not talking about the shandy’s. He’s just another player who failed to live up to his early promise & on whom Moyes has taken a gamble on. Hope I’m totally wrong.
Cahill. Can he really cut it in a 4-4-2.
Jagielka. Is he a bird, is he a plane or WTF. Did Moyes buy him for a specific position or the fact that he can adequately cover several positions?
Sorry for being such a pessimist but it’s just that I feel we have such a long way to go in the middle of the park. But (put’s on flak jacket) IMWT!
Graveson is (and I’m delighted to see him back by the way) a short term fix.
Carsley (an absolute gem of a signing by Moyes) is in the twilight of his career.
Osman, great feet but too lightweight. Surely we can do something about that.
Pienaar. The next AVM. I’m not talking about the shandy’s. He’s just another player who failed to live up to his early promise & on whom Moyes has taken a gamble on. Hope I’m totally wrong.
Cahill. Can he really cut it in a 4-4-2.
Jagielka. Is he a bird, is he a plane or WTF. Did Moyes buy him for a specific position or the fact that he can adequately cover several positions?
Sorry for being such a pessimist but it’s just that I feel we have such a long way to go in the middle of the park. But (put’s on flak jacket) IMWT!
Danny Mullally
14 Posted 07/09/2007 at 09:06:00
14 Posted 07/09/2007 at 09:06:00
I cannot for the life of me understand this clamouring for Pienaar over little Leon Osman.
We all know that Osman is flawed in some aspects of his game, but he has PROVEN that he can make a difference to the team and occcasionally frightens the life out of defenders because of his movement. On the other hand there is this prospect who has done fuck all since he has been here, except show me that he looks out of his depth in both the Bundesliga and premier league.
Now until Pienaar starts to PROVE himself in training and in games, why on earth would we want to jeopardise fielding our strongest side just to play a player not in form?
Andy Van Der.......
We all know that Osman is flawed in some aspects of his game, but he has PROVEN that he can make a difference to the team and occcasionally frightens the life out of defenders because of his movement. On the other hand there is this prospect who has done fuck all since he has been here, except show me that he looks out of his depth in both the Bundesliga and premier league.
Now until Pienaar starts to PROVE himself in training and in games, why on earth would we want to jeopardise fielding our strongest side just to play a player not in form?
Andy Van Der.......
chris keightley
15 Posted 07/09/2007 at 10:15:15
15 Posted 07/09/2007 at 10:15:15
How the hell can you have a go at osman he is far more worth his place in the side over pienar hes currently the joint top scorer and gets into posistions as well as anyone at the club i expect him to score close to ten from midfield this season which will be an excellent return you doom mongers obviously dont turn up week in week out
Dick Fearon
16 Posted 07/09/2007 at 10:53:40
16 Posted 07/09/2007 at 10:53:40
Back door
IMO part of the reason why Arteta or for that matter no one else delivers thru balls lies with AJs runs. Invariably he sets off at top speed in a particular direction and his team mates have little option but to bang the ball in the same direction. Where he and the ball are likely to meet is predictable and quick defenders can easily deal with it. Rarely does AJ sprint from a wide position to meet a pass threaded between defenders. That used to be called ?sneaking in the back door? and used by all great goal poachers since the year dot. From my own experience most defenders that are usually big blokes prefer to deal with bullatagaters rather than subtle ball players.
AJs use of wide ?channels? creates space in the middle for a goal scoring partner viz a viz Yakubu and strong central midfielders of the Jagielka type.
We can expect a fair share of goals from those three.
IMO part of the reason why Arteta or for that matter no one else delivers thru balls lies with AJs runs. Invariably he sets off at top speed in a particular direction and his team mates have little option but to bang the ball in the same direction. Where he and the ball are likely to meet is predictable and quick defenders can easily deal with it. Rarely does AJ sprint from a wide position to meet a pass threaded between defenders. That used to be called ?sneaking in the back door? and used by all great goal poachers since the year dot. From my own experience most defenders that are usually big blokes prefer to deal with bullatagaters rather than subtle ball players.
AJs use of wide ?channels? creates space in the middle for a goal scoring partner viz a viz Yakubu and strong central midfielders of the Jagielka type.
We can expect a fair share of goals from those three.
Brian Donnelly
17 Posted 07/09/2007 at 11:44:04
17 Posted 07/09/2007 at 11:44:04
Arteta was poor last Saturday until Osman come on. I don?t think Arteta enjoyed being stuck out on the left wing when Pienaar was on the field. I can?t remember them once changing wings.
When Osman came on, Arteta switched to the right wing and the difference was noticeable. Of course, this could be that Bolton were poor down one side of the pitch.
It will be interesting to see what happens against Manure.
When Osman came on, Arteta switched to the right wing and the difference was noticeable. Of course, this could be that Bolton were poor down one side of the pitch.
It will be interesting to see what happens against Manure.
Stephen Ryan
18 Posted 07/09/2007 at 12:52:03
18 Posted 07/09/2007 at 12:52:03
Arteta has always been too inconsistent to be classed a ’great’ player; furthermore, he rarely performs against the top teams especially away from home.
Brian Waring
19 Posted 07/09/2007 at 13:30:23
19 Posted 07/09/2007 at 13:30:23
It’s okay saying Pienaar must be great because he came through the Ajax system.But,what has he actually done since he left them?
Allan Hobbs
20 Posted 07/09/2007 at 14:45:13
20 Posted 07/09/2007 at 14:45:13
I really like Ossie, he’s committed and is a ’good’ player but he has major flaws in his game. He’s neither one thing nor another if you catch my drift. his finishing is woeful, he misses open goals quite often and does get muscled out of it often too.
I like the look of Pienaar, and having watched him for Ajax, he is definately more talented than Ossie. Only time will tell though, and the only way to tell is for him to play. Its probably fair to say that Pienaar and Ossie are pretty similar and as a result will probably share the games all season. We should have quite a few more games than usual - fingers crossed!
I like the look of Pienaar, and having watched him for Ajax, he is definately more talented than Ossie. Only time will tell though, and the only way to tell is for him to play. Its probably fair to say that Pienaar and Ossie are pretty similar and as a result will probably share the games all season. We should have quite a few more games than usual - fingers crossed!
EFC
21 Posted 07/09/2007 at 16:07:25
21 Posted 07/09/2007 at 16:07:25
Stephen are you mad, arteta not a great player he is one of the best mids in the prem
Connor Rohrer
22 Posted 07/09/2007 at 16:05:24
22 Posted 07/09/2007 at 16:05:24
Danny Mullally, Pienaar has played 70 minutes of football in his whole Everton career and you are not satisfied. From what I seen at the Reebok he played well. Here’s a little report from the Guardian match report.
Pienaar, a South African international midfielder on a season-long loan from Borussia Dortmund, was almost equally impressive, his prompting and passing in midfield influential before he faded late on."
That is exactly what I and alot of other people seen from Pienaar at the Reebok.
Did you ever watch him in Germany? He struggled in dortmund because the whole team struggled yet he got the blame because he was the direct replacement for Tomas Rosicky a fan favourite.
Although Osman has scored two goals his all round play has been very average. He has been poor bar the Spurs game. People talk about his quick feet yet every time a defender leans on him he falls over. I think it is about time someone else got a chance to impress.
You shouldnt judge players on there past. Duncan Ferguson couldnt get in the Rangers team before he joined us and Arteta couldnt get in a Real Socidad team containing an average player like Mikel Alonso and they turned out to be very good player’s in my eyes.
Pienaar deserves his chance and hopefully he will carry on from the Bolton game where he accited himself well against a very physical team. I like Osman and he is a very important player for us but when he gets into the team he has to play to a certain standard. I dont mind whoever plays but it is nice to see some competition.
Pienaar, a South African international midfielder on a season-long loan from Borussia Dortmund, was almost equally impressive, his prompting and passing in midfield influential before he faded late on."
That is exactly what I and alot of other people seen from Pienaar at the Reebok.
Did you ever watch him in Germany? He struggled in dortmund because the whole team struggled yet he got the blame because he was the direct replacement for Tomas Rosicky a fan favourite.
Although Osman has scored two goals his all round play has been very average. He has been poor bar the Spurs game. People talk about his quick feet yet every time a defender leans on him he falls over. I think it is about time someone else got a chance to impress.
You shouldnt judge players on there past. Duncan Ferguson couldnt get in the Rangers team before he joined us and Arteta couldnt get in a Real Socidad team containing an average player like Mikel Alonso and they turned out to be very good player’s in my eyes.
Pienaar deserves his chance and hopefully he will carry on from the Bolton game where he accited himself well against a very physical team. I like Osman and he is a very important player for us but when he gets into the team he has to play to a certain standard. I dont mind whoever plays but it is nice to see some competition.
seanymac
23 Posted 07/09/2007 at 17:51:23
23 Posted 07/09/2007 at 17:51:23
Brendan McLaughlin - correction mate - carsley was signed by walter smith. before bein sarcy, maybe you should get your facts right
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1 Posted 06/09/2007 at 17:15:52