No abuse coming from me.

Mark -spot on mate!!!
Totally agree with everything that you say

Mark, I agree with what your saying, although I still think £8m is a little overpriced.....;-)

Andy Johnson is worth every single penny of the £8 million pounds we spent to get him and I for one am glad moysey got him and hope he stays for years to come, the lad has had a hand in almost every goal we have scored so far and long may it continue

Spot on Mark.

The Reds will never have our class - that’s what sets us apart, but they have come trumps with respect to young Rhys and I think this ’murdering’ shite has to end.

With respect to Kenwright the jury is still out until he delivers a ’world class stadium’, but as far as Moyes is concerned he is in the top 5 or 6 managers in the country. He has his weaknesses by they are far outweighed by his plus points and he makes me proud to be a Blue.

As for AJ. I don’t think he’ll evr be more than a 10 to 15 goal man but his energy and intelligent running are exceptional. Put it this way it would take over £12m to prise him away so it’s good business as far as I’m concerned. All True Blues will back him anyway but there will always be those who moan about all players - I can remember Sharp, Sheedy, Ratcliffe Reid and even Southall suffering at hands of some so-called Blues.

Onwards and upwards Blues. Relax and enjoy being a Blue - it;s a gift.

which baloon is moaning about aj?!

UNREAL. Totally fooking unreal.

Any match going blue understands that AJ completely alters the way we play.

Everton pre-AJ :teams squeezed us on on the half way line knowing we couldnt get in behind them

Everton with AJ : dont push us half as far knowing one long ball in behind them and they are dead.

AJ isnt just goals... he completley and utterly alters the way we play.

RS in disguise ?

Lads.
I think he was using the murderers analogy to get a point over.
It may have been misguided in some peoples eyes but i think he was attempting to put the origional post into context.
Well i hope he was.

Thanks for the post Mark, I agree about everything you said.
It is very easy to get caught up on these boards with every snide comment or extreme statement, but I have found that taking all the posts with a pinch of salt usually enables me to keep my sanity.
I rarely become embroiled in the mailbag nowadays, It is far better to sit and watch people make complete dickheads out of themselves.

Good post Mark although as an Irish toffee & a reasonably regular reader of Toffeeweb I can’t say I feel that the "murderers" label has cropped up that often.

As for the rest of your points - Spot On. Are you sure you’re not a fucking redscum trying to confuse us by talking some commonsense.

Quite the self-righteous little rant don’t you think? I agree with point 1. Everyone knows many Liverpool fans and probably none of them have ever killed anyone.

BUT you must surely see the case for having a total lack of trust in the current board? Fortress, the Rooney sale, Kings Dock etc.

What I hate is this tone of being a better blue because you support Kenwright and his fat mate. People are entitled to different opinions and they’re entitled to express them. For instance I don’t think we should move to Kirkby but you dismiss this as crap. Moaning and ranting about fellow blues is not at all constructive.

Well said Mark. Absolutely spot on.I often wonder whether the comments that are made are actually from Everton supporters. Sometimes I can?t help but feel such things as the AJ stuff are entered by reds fans or the like just wanting to stir the pot.

Whereas I don?t go along with calling the reds murderers & such, I have always reckoned that they put Everton development back by many years by their behaviour. This was at a time when things were building up for the Premier league to be started.... and they have benefited from it. BUT ..... we will return to the top because of our PEDIGREE.

Good stuff Mark - there’s so much positivity about the club at the moment with our league position, forthcoming UEFA Cup ’campaign’ - I hope, new stadium on the horizon, breaking our clubs transfer record that I find it difficult to believe there’s any ’gloomy’ blues out there - but there is hiding and sulking, huddled together in little corners sniping at everything our club is doing on and off the pitch. The good news is though that I feel they’re an increasingly bitter minority.

Just One thing Bill Kenwright and all who agree with him on this Kirkby thing will destroy my club, I will not stop saying it just because youve fell for it as you proberbly did the fortress fund and the kings dock.You kid yourself all you want.

rich jones - this ’thread’ is not about (or primarily about) the stadium issue - so whine about that somewhere else, as I posted earlier there’s so much to be happy about for our club at the moment.

Mark I do not trust Kenwright because he lied to us,but this has nothing to do with high expectations nor do I blame Moyes although too often hes had no plan B, but credit were its due since Spurs last season on the whole we are more attack minded.I have family and friends that support the dark side but that does not stop my being disgusted at there antics at the final I lost a mate at hillsborough and thought there actions were disrespectful to the victims.Kirkby is sore point but I accept the vote that’s not to say I wont support any other option I know what you mean yes it would be great if we all got on I’m old enough to remember when after a derby we could sit together in the pub and the banter was great but sadly that’s not going to happen nowthere is too much bitterness on both sides.to be honest the hardest thing for me to concede in your letter is the trust you have in the board the least we as Fans deserve honesty I dont blame Kenwright for not being able to compete in the money mad race its become but stop thinking we are all stupid and as for AJ I agree they are tossers give the guy a break

Totally agree.

Only add how much I hate the ’ We don’t care about the redshite...’ song we sing all the time.

If ever the was a more self-harming chant.

Hi Mark

I AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU.

VERY , VERY DISAPPOINTED !

Yeah it could all be just football talk.....whatever that means.

Please try to use your football platitudes to explain to my mate in Turin why his father never came home from the match and how his ma was left as a young widow , to bring up a family on her own.

The Juve fans have always remembered ?the fallen innocents from that awful night? but their eloquent gesture of turning their backs at Anfield not only underlined their disdain for the belated apology from LFC but reflected their disgust at how little either club had helped the widows and orphans.

I AM HAPPY THAT YOU WERE SPARED SUCH A TRAGEDY IN YOUR OWN LIFE and that my friend is not any kind of footy talk !

Be ashamed for your Red buddies !

That club will carry the stigma far beyond its
new home in the park.

RIP the innocent fans who went to watch a footy game and never came home !

FAO Glen
you can’t pigeon hole hundreds of thousands of Liverpool fans, many of whom weren’t even born at the time of the Heysel disaster, for the stupidity of a small number of hooligans. So I’m not ashamed of or for my mates who are reds, for making a decision when they were a year or two old, to support Liverpool, when lets be honest they probably knew nothing of the incident. Have you every heard people saying ’fucking robbing scouse twat’ or making a job about dole queue’s or car stereo’s - does it piss you off? It’s exactly the same, people in our city pigeon holed by narrow minded pricks like you. So to explain the awful occurance that you described above, the friends father didn’t get get home alive because of the actions of a minority group of hooligans - not representatives of Liverpool FC as a whole.

FAO Brendan and James
Not a red in disguise! I’m blue through and through and have been since the day I was born. But i recognise that were all scousers at the end of the day and most of family and mates are reds (I’ve only got 3 close mates who are blues!) so the whole murderers jibe pisses me off, real Everton fans don’t think about Liverpool fans in that way. Also, the murderers thing has noticeably cropped up quite a few times of late which is the only reason I mentioned it.


FAO Rich Jones, I’m not pro-kirkby, neither am I against it. The truth is I don’t know enought about the effect it will have on future support, revenue etc to be good or bad - neither do I pretend to. I’d be delighted if we stayed in a revamped Goodison but neither that nor the Bestway option seem viable due to the cost and size of the sites.

Tommy,
you proved my point exactly with your response, you are just an ignorant child. Woof Woof????? You know when I would hear that? When I was about 6 years old and all the other school boys thought it was funny. That is my real name, which holds me accountable if, by chance, I ever run into anyone that might have read what I wrote. Taking the piss out of other supporters is part of football, but calling one group of supporters murderers is pathetic and IGNORANT!! Nobody’s denying what those fans did 20 years ago, or what happened just a couple of months ago, but that does not justify chanting that they are murderers, which is the point Mark was trying to make. But obviously you’re ignorant hatred won’t let you realize that.

Wow, you are a sad, sad little boy tommy. My wife would beg to differ with you calling me an 8 year old, but again, you are just an ignorant little child. Yes, I know people on both sides of the Blue and red divide, and they are all descent respectable people. Not one of the reds that I know are anywhere near as classless and pathetic as you are being right now. And to compare Mark and I to Nazi’s for wanting to raise the level of discourse....... unbelievable.

If this isn’t another example of why we need registration and FULL NAMES on this site then I don’t know what is, can we all stop slagging each other off whether it’s in the posting, word it better if need be or the endless name calling.

Before I get the same back, I’m anti current management especially BK and KW but appreciate DM but will still post when I see fit to point out a failure and against Kirkby for reasons I’ve posted many times and this is my real name.

HI ALL,
Well things seem to be getting petty and out of context.

First the ground. I wanted to stay in Goodison. I still hope and pray its not too late for another North City solution can be found. EVEN... god forbid the council do a 180 and grant us permission and a grant to rebuild goodison.( I say this tounge in cheek but at the same time the city needs to reilise the affect we will have on the imidiate comunity not just the city.) My bigest concern with the new location is more the stadium. IT MUST be WORLD class in the same vain as the fated kings dock. an average stadium will only ever be average. WHY NOT if we have the space a stadium simular to the one proposed to the kings dock?
WHAT happend to the kings dock. AS I understand it it was the right place, right stadium at the worong time finaccialy. I AM SURE BK wanted this place.

AS for BIll K and the Board. We want perfection as fans....and rightly so. But with the finances that AGENT Johnson left us with and the team WALTER S left us with No one can say we are worse off. Where we want to be .. NO.... NO WAY. but we are moving forward. Pushing the Big 4 with a lot less money. The Board and DM will make mistakes. WE all do in our jobs. But they do seem to learn from them and we all know BK wants whats best he love EFC like all of us. At this point i know pepole are thinking of the stadium and saying we cant make a mistake this big. I agree as i said before. but he is doing best with what he has to work with. the Kirby satdium is not locked in. And if we keep on looking at other options and give our opinions on what we expect in the new stadium we as a whole fan base might get somthing better than we thought. I CERTAINLY HOPE SO. we where all disapionted when players we adored left. But in many cases it was for the better. we sold Rooney and followed up by finishing 4th.
And its not as if there are other managers or pepole to take BK place and throw money our way.
WE all know the game and the cost of players is out of control. 8m for AJ; who is probbly worth more now like a lot of players we have, Artetta , lescott , Cahill , Tim Howard etc. is good buisness and unlike some lazy forwards we have had in the past he works for the TEAM which has to be for the benifit for the team if he brings in other players.

As for the RS. AS A CLUB I disspise them. Because of them we fell back due to being out of Europe when qualifying many times. Our best team broken up because playes wanted europen football. HOWEVER... as individuals many of them are friends. many of them are hoorified by the few who bring down there club and wish the few would go away and follow Man U or
Leeds. Most of the pepole involed in Hyseal etc are now in there mid 40s and realiseing what they have done having children themselves. ( having kids brings a lot home).
There will always be a stupid few, we even have them, we have been fortunate that nothing major has happend with us. I am Bitter towards LFC and rightly or wrongly blame them partially for our fall from a super power in english football but we cant truly blame all the reds and certainly those under 35 and over 55. just a minority. ALL I am asking here is for a reality check. Things for us as a club could be worse... but must CONTINUE to get better which for the most part seems to be. AND if we consontrate on EFC and forget about the RS the world will seem brighter. The futures bright.... The futures ROYAL BLUE !!

One last thing for Tommy and anyone who agrees with him. This was said by the murdered Rhys Jones’ Uncle at his funeral service, attended by both Evertonians and Reds:

"Football is nothing without rivalry, particularly in a city such as ours, but life is nothing without friends.

"One thing he and I share today is that some of Rhys’s closest friends are here wearing shirts of a different colour to his, but he always saw beyond that.

"They were friends first and football rivals second."

That says it all really.

Calm Down! Calm Down!

I?ll respond to your points here, one by one.

1: The tragedy of Heysel has almost been wiped from history entirely following the tragedy of Hillsborough. I?m annoyed about this airbrushing of history; almost as annoyed as I am at some Evertonians attempt to portray Everton as the "real" victims of Heysel. Perspective people - 39 Juventus fans died that day. That goes to you as well Mark Stone - "the misgivings of a small minority 20 years ago." is a pretty bland way to describe one of the darkest days in football. There were 14 convictions for manslaughter stemming from Heysel - all of them Liverpool fans. I don?t feel "misgivings" really covers it.



2: I humbly apologise for not sharing your faith in the current board. Moyes is a good manager, but whats he actually won? You?ve differing criteria to some Evertonians on what quantifies success. {The beauty of sport - you really can keep moving the goalposts!}. It?s more than a little churlish to criticise others for expecting a consistently high level of performance - particularly in light of the excellent board and manager you claim we posess. There?s also the small matter of the club motto....

3: AJ is mustard. In light of Beatties less than stellar Everton career, a lack of faith in Moyes choice of strikers can be understood. But AJ is certainly not a waste of money.

4: Just because you support the move to Kirkby doesn?t meany everyone else has to. There?s a multitude of reasons why it may be, and may be not a good plan. Just because someone sees more than negatives than positives doesn?t make their opinion any less important than yours.

This thread is I think a clear demonstration why I clamp down on fans who feel they need to have a go at other fans... okay, I guess I’m doing it too now! But with good reason: this forum is for civilised an reasonably sensible discussion about the issues, not for personal attacks on other fans for their opinions. If we need to delete offending posts (yes "tommyg", I looking at you) and terminate threads that generate this kind of bollocks, then we will. End of.

Mark Stone, you state:

"Your willingness to refer to Liverpool FC and their fans as 'the murderers' etc on postings on this site. I can only guess that those of you who do this are not from or living in Liverpool or the locality"

How have you arrived at the conclusion that those fans who refer to Liverpool supporters as 'murderers' are not from Liverpool etc?

I am orignally from Liverpool, however I moved to Manchester when I was young, only to move back to Liverpool at the age of nineteen. The only time I have ever heard a Liverpool fan refered to as a 'murderer' is by a fellow scouser. Also, who do you suggest sparks up the chant of 'murderers' from the Gwladys Street End whenever we play Liverpool or a visiting team who have an ex-Liverpool player in their squad? I assume you must think it is all the fans from outside the city who are renowned for congregating at the back of the stand?

There are a number of occassions that I have seen comments posted on this site that suggest that the opinions of those Everton fans who live outside of the city are not as valid as those of 'real scousers'. I just never thought that someone would also try to blame them for the ignorance of some so-called 'football fans'.