ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

Nola Blue
1 Posted 11/09/2007 at 13:18:47

Good article. I like Neville. Someone over here (New Orleans) was telling me that he was always considered the best prospect of Gary, Giggs, Beckham, Butt etc....

Peter Singer
2 Posted 11/09/2007 at 14:56:53

It sums up quite well why we do need Neville around despite his obvious shortcomings.

Booing your own players just because you think they are crap is childish anyway and dare I say, typical of the England crowd.

Graham Nolan
3 Posted 11/09/2007 at 14:58:36

In the world of the modern day footballer and all the Bentley cars, bling wearing and money grabbing that goes with it, it is very refreshing to read an article such as this.
Phil Neville might not have the technical ability of many of his peers but whe beats them hands down when it comes to professionalism and attitude.
A lot of modern day footballers could learn a great deal from him but sadly few do.
Let us not forget, that he is a player who left the comfort zone of Man U’s bench and sought a fresh challenge. Not one evertonian could question his commitment since arriving at our club.
Which would you prefer? A team of Phil Neville’s or a team of Andy Van Der Meydes? I know which I would prefer.

Allan Hobbs
4 Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:13:08

I’d prefer a team of Andy Van Der Meyde’s, purely for their comic value.

With Phil Neville in goal.

Peter Singer
5 Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:14:38

That would take a lot of Andys. I reckon you’d need at least forty of them to have eleven that’s fit on any given matchday.

Allan Hobbs
6 Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:24:41

The article is very good by the way, I love Phil Neville; he’s easily the most professional pro in the game. To bloke and a bloody good player despite the criticism he gets. None of it is deserved.

Proper old school player is Phyllis, good on him I say. We’d be alot worse off if it wasnt for him. Fact.

Kev Krenshaw
7 Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:12:57

The problem is, his compassion, comitment, professionalism, all the qualities he does posess in abundance, do not make him a good professional footballer, just a good professional. Im sure we all know good people, but they don?t get to play for Everton, let alone be our Captain. I often find myself irritated by this very arguement and it must be that people are blinded by his public image as down to earth Pip. He still gets paid thousands per week, and whilst he?s "nice" and all, he gets paid primarilly for being a player for our club, who has as many flaws in his game as he does have comendable aspects of his character.

Sorry.

P.S. I can?t stand "INGERLUND" and i?d rather they lose more often than not, largely as I find the rest of the national side to be a bunch of overpaid self important posers, and i?m glad the 3 blues in the squad are seemingly the ezception, but in all honesty, Neville should be nowhere near the squad, let alone the team, and i believe the booing isn?t a personal afront to a nice guy, but a sign that the paying fans are not happy with what they see, like the Spurs game last year.

P.P.S. Nice article all the same

Andy Baker
8 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:02:50

He might be a nice lad and a good professional but id prefer him to be a wanker who could keep possesion and pass 10 yards!
Yer hes got a good attitude but im fuckin sick of seeing hoof ball towards the corner flag for AJ to chase like a complete knobhead!

There were people slagging AJ off on here the other week.....and its because of the service hes getting from the likes of Phil neville that his goal threat has been very little if any. Maybe if a ball he chased was aimed at the goal he would have a better chance?

Guy Wilkinson
9 Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:59:17

The article is top drawer. Winter pays Neville and the club top respect and vilifies the knuckle draggers who watch England.
The Telegraph have a good team of writers who respect old skool values within the game. Henry Winter and Tim Rich are top reporters and David Bond’s analysis is mint.
Neville has introduced a sense of assertiveness - especially in dealing with match officials that was sadly lacking under Weir. PN’s value is as a leader of men rather than as a distributor of passes.

Ray Roche
10 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:07:54

An excellent article,we are all aware of Nevilles shortcomings but no-one can criticise his effort and commitment. "One Premier League captain infamously invoiced his club for presents the players handed out in a cancer ward one Christmas." Anyone know who this was?

Graham Nolan
11 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:21:36

Can’t be that infamous if no one has ever heard of it!

Mark Murphy
12 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:17:12

I’m not a big fan of Phil Neville the mid-fielder but he is the only choice I can think of as captain of Everton at the moment. I would prefer to see him as right back but thats down to David Moyes and I have long since learned to respect his judgement as manager. (If I truly knew better than Moyes I wouldnt be sat here bored top death in an open plan office!). Obviously it seems Phil is a nice bloke and a good pro but I agree with the others above that as a good footballer he is lacking. I doubt very much that if he had played for anyone but Manu in their best days he would not have got half of his caps. Still, he’s doing alright this season and as long as he’s in a blue shirt he’s better than 20 reds!

Henry Winter seems to give us frequent good reports. I’m sure I read somewhere he is an Evertonian. Anyone know for sure?

Murf

David Siggers
13 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:25:35

some of you are missing the point.a team needs players like PN.as said he lifts the other players on and off the pitch.
anywhay can?t be too bad,-mu,Everton and england!

Peter Singer
14 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:28:45

Andy Baker, I’m pretty sure he’s told to hoof it up if there’s nobody to pick in midfield.

All our problems stem from lack of off-the-ball movement in midfield. We need at least two midfield targets available constantly while we’re trying to build up our attacks.

In our first few games we had Arteta and when Osman was in a mood and managed to shake off his markers, our game flowed like Chang. When our fairly static midfield was closed down, defenders and holding midfielders started to punt the ball towards the corner flags. It’s up to Gravesen and Pienaar and partly Jagielka to change this.

I’m not suggesting Phil’s ever going to take part in lightning-quick one-twos but he is able to pick a pass from ten yards provided there is one.

Chris Masey
15 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:50:01

what a player for us, and no coincidence, when he joined us, Man U’s midfield collapsed and they won nothing

Marc R
16 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:47:44

Hey I would be a model professional if I got the chance to be EFC captain, I would work hard, never complain, take time for the fans etc. Problem is I am a shite footballer, so is Neville. Thats no excuse for picking him every week, we need to pick our best FOOTBALLERS not nicest guys.
Jeezus, while I would never boo an Everton player, have any of you ever watched him play? He has to be a joke end of.

Andy
17 Posted 11/09/2007 at 17:00:51

i’ve nothing but respect for phil neville, he is a model professional and is an excellent role model for our younger players, he might not be the most gifted but his experience is so valuable and will be of great benefit to the team this season.

having neville as captain can only be a good thing in my opinion.

Peter Singer
18 Posted 11/09/2007 at 17:14:27

Marc R, you wouldn’t. You’d be moaning and showing no respect to others just as you’re doing it now.

John Martin
19 Posted 11/09/2007 at 17:56:10

Phil Neville is not shite, he is an excellent right back and a decent midfielder, certainly Alex Ferguson, David Moyes numerous England managers and a host of premiership managers who would like to or have at one time wanted to sign him, He may not be as silky skilled as Arteta but a team of Arteta’s wouldnt win a thing. its all about balance. Neville is a fine captain and role model at the club and is doing a good job. The people saying being a model professional and loving the club and deriding Nevilles ability saying they too love the club but are shit like Neville are ridiculous. Neville is a million times a better footballer than any contributor to this site which is why he is playing the game while we are supporting it.

Neil McKinney
20 Posted 11/09/2007 at 18:29:59

Marc R - You cannot say what you would do if you were EFC captain. Many players start out with the best intentions and an honest hard working attitude. Then the money comes rolling in and before you know it they’re a sulking selfish spice boy.

Of course Nev’s no Pele, and at times he has made me scream with frustration but he came to Everton and really took the bull by the horns. You would think this lad had been at EFC since schoolboy age with the dedication and effort that he displays.

I think the team is gradually outgrowing players like him, but if he can pass on some of the professionalism to the younger players then great!

We have had plenty of crap footballers at EFC over the past 20 years but Nev was a good buy and still has a job to do at EFC.

COYB

Alan Clarke
21 Posted 11/09/2007 at 21:00:36

I play with passion and commitment but I’m crap at football. Neville is of the same standard. If we weren’t so short on numbers in our squad I’d have been crying out for Moyes to ship him off to the barcodes.

Neville has no balls either - he stuffs it up on the big occasions. Own goal at Anfield, own goal against Man U - both goals conceded at crucial points in both those games. He is not as good as Carsley in midfield, and he’s not as good as Jagielka at right back.

David Barks
22 Posted 11/09/2007 at 21:04:34

The constant abuse of our own players has just got to stop. It’s very nice to see Everton and it’s players getting recognition in the national press. But still people come on here and want to talk about how poor this guy or that guy is. Leave that talk to the shite or if you get such a kick out of it then join the shite. For Christ’s sake, Neville is not the best footballer in the world, but he does a very good job for us, has captained us and no doubt has demanded that the team adopt a winning mentality.

Dave Wilson
23 Posted 11/09/2007 at 20:50:49

The guy gets moved from pillar to post, he?s a right back yet he plays anywhere he?s asked. PN sacrifices his own game for the good of EFC, he has won many honours and could easily give it the biggen, but he hasnt, he has come from a winning environment and has brought a winning mentality. He wont get me out of me seat - Micky can do that - but he?ll do for me.

Mike Whittaker
24 Posted 11/09/2007 at 21:12:01

Were talking about a guy who has 50 odd caps for England, a European Cup Winners medal and 5 or so league titles. I cant recall too many Everton players with that CV in our history - can anybody else? Therefore I say we’re are lucky to have him - shame he hasnt won any of them with us.

Alan Clarke
25 Posted 11/09/2007 at 21:22:46

David, we’re all entitled to our opinions about players. I get sick of people telling their fellow fans to go and support the shite when they disagree.

What I demand is that Everton are the best team and I don’t feel we are with Neville in the side. If we just accept that none of our players are poor then we’d never demand more and we’d never progress.

David Barks
26 Posted 11/09/2007 at 21:32:24

Alan, it’s not about saying all our players are the greatest. The point is constantly talking about how this player is shit and that player is shit on fan forums does nothing to improve the team. You’re not influencing the team selection. All your accomplishing is speaking negatively about Everton, since he is a member of Everton football club, and that is something for opposing fans to do.

Paul
27 Posted 11/09/2007 at 22:05:52

Neville seems like a lovely fella, he speaks well about Everton and does fantastic charity work etc, but as a player he is sh!te!! No 2ways about it, he constantly gives the ball away no matter where he plays. There was a reason why man utd sold him and why none of the other so called big clubs went for him. Im all for cheering on Everton and I cheer him on every week at the match but the lad is still poor and Everton would be a better team without him. You look to your captain for inspiration, you dont get that from Neville.

Peter Singer
28 Posted 11/09/2007 at 22:02:02

Alan, the problem with slagging our own players off is this: if you prove to be right, you won’t be happy because that means we’re losing. If you’re proved wrong you’ve made a fool of yourself.

Of course you’re entitled an opinion and I hate to see fans accusing other fans of not being "real Evertonians" but strong negative opinions don’t do much good unless you can actually do something to turn things around or at least provide an alternative.

Have you ever noticed that "criticism" directed against certain players looks to be coming in waves? So far this season we’ve had a Hibbertmania, a Maddogmania (before he had even played a minute), nowadays it’s fashionable to bash AJ and Neville. If you concentrate very hard on players’ faults, you’ll conclude that everyone in the squad is utter crap. Look at Howard, not a single clean sheet, what a shite goalkeeper he is. Or Arteta, still goalless this season and outplayed at Reading. Perfectly dreadful. Stubbs lacks pace, Lescott lost his man against Spurs and failed to take up his position against Reading, Carsley can’t pass forty yards, and we do remember Joey tying his shoelace. Yak is lazy, McFadden is crap, Osman is weak, Gravesen is too old, Jutkiewicz is too young, Anichebe is too slow, Cahill is too injured and Wessels is too German.

David Barks
29 Posted 11/09/2007 at 22:24:25

Well said Peter. I’m under no illusions that Neville is our best player. I prefer to see him at right back than in midfield, as I think Gravesen or Jagielka offer us much more than Neville in that role. But as a right back Neville has done very well. And I’m sorry but you do not gain that many England caps by being a shite footballer.

Roy coyne
30 Posted 11/09/2007 at 22:22:45

As far as Iam aware no one has ever been critical of his commitment or his attitude to the fans and I would never barrack him as to me any one wearing the shirt deserves respect,but if we are talking ability sadly Phil just is not good enough.I dont care if he has 100 caps or 30 titles his distribution is awful

Peter Singer
31 Posted 11/09/2007 at 22:37:48

Roy, not good enough for what? We’ve seen many more talented players, I agree but come on, he’s a fullback. And his distribution will never be better than his options are. It’s easy to point the finger at the player who has the ball but what about the others?

What he really lacks as a fullback is the timing of his tackles. Sometimes he catches the rhythm of his opponent perfectly but most often he only catches his shins.

Peter Stone
32 Posted 11/09/2007 at 22:39:41

There is a well known eulogium that evokes "Results are the Guru". This translated means; no matter what we perceive to be the truth to be?.. or however our mindset interprets information, only one thing matters: Results.
By that calculus Phil Neville is by far our best player based on the amount of medals he has won and the amount of international caps he has gained.
Nothing happens by chance, no such thing as luck. A meaning behind every little thing, and such a meaning behind that. Serendipity is where opportunity meets preparation and PN has absolutely, utterly made the best of his ability.
Irrelevant of the somewhat fickle judgment mechanisms deployed in analysis of his performances for our team by some observers, I know very few men who could say that for themselves??????

Peter Singer
33 Posted 11/09/2007 at 23:04:58

Peter, the trouble with your argument is basically the same: it leads us nowhere. It’s a circular argument, all it tells is good players are successful therefore successful players are good.

The fact is, as a fan, you’re not really interested in what players have already achieved, you rather ask "Will he be good come next Saturday?"

And while past success is a good indication as to what you should expect, it’s far from being the most accurate one. If it was, managers wouldn’t spend a fortune on game-analysis software. (One blatant example is the issue of confidence. Remembering how you’ve won several trophies in the past helps to boost your confidence but a single error just ten minutes ago can wipe out all that effect.)

Peter Stone
34 Posted 11/09/2007 at 23:27:02

& that Peter - is exactly my point! I wasn’t arguing! You?re completely right; this post has turned into a circular discussion with no real meaning. PN is/was a top player as decreed by luminaries such as SAF, DM or (even) Steve McClaren! All I?m suggesting is that our judgment values on what constitutes a good player may not be quite as ?honed?. Like I said irrelevant of what you, me or any fan thinks - top sports writers (Henry Winter), top managers, and many, many fans appreciate PN. It?s all a matter of perspective.

David Barks
35 Posted 11/09/2007 at 23:52:52

I’ll just say this on the matter, if Phil Neville and Andy Johnson, as is being discussed in another article, are two of our worst players, then we have a pretty damn good team. We’re discussing the poorness of two players who both figured in England’s qualifier on Saturday and who have been very important to our team’s success last season and the start of this season. If these are Everton’s current "poor" players, then I’m enjoying being an Evertonian at the moment. (With the exception of the stadium debate/rantings)

Alan Clarke
36 Posted 12/09/2007 at 00:52:03

it’s not just on here JohnA, you should go to a game and listen!

John Ferguson
37 Posted 12/09/2007 at 00:59:23

I met Phil Neville for the first time on Sunday morning at the Heathrow BA lounge before the flight back to Manchester... he was with his wife and kids but took time to chat to me and was a very ’down to earth’ bloke. A credit to our Club and his profession

Roy Coyne
38 Posted 12/09/2007 at 01:54:30

Peter, no matter where we play him his inability to find a man is constant I will concede that he is better than Tony H but it is a weakness that worries me in Europe were keeping the ball is vital now I have never heard any one that?s met him say any thing less than hes a nice guy but that?s not the point Beattie was also a nice guy in fact over the years every Everton player I have met where nice with the exception of Billy Bingham but I digress IF he was a better passer he would still be at old trafford

Mark Joseph
39 Posted 11/09/2007 at 14:50:30

Having read the Telegraph article on Phil Neville I just thought I'd add to it.

Neville is considered the ultimate professional at Everton, from the ranks of the players. Leon Osman was in our local hostelry, some time back, oozing compliments on Nevilles attitude and dedication to the club and the encouragement he gives his team-mates. He may not be the most gifted player on our books but if his attitude and dedication rubs off onto those more gifted, then we are in for a rosy future, on the field at least.

Ray Jinkinson
40 Posted 11/09/2007 at 17:40:18

Don't know if someone has alraedy highlighted this? (Just got internet connected today). The Observer newspaper of (2 weeks ago) Sunday did a profile of the worst (wasters) passers of a ball "Phil Neville" was second from top. Why is he CAPTAIN?

Phil Watson
41 Posted 12/09/2007 at 05:56:56

Its now that Phil Neville looks a poor player because of players such as arteta, jagielka etc just think without phils hard work toiling in a shit midfield we wouldnt have been able to attract and more importantly keep players such as these. His hard work led us to Europe through the league plus right now we are third so he cant be doing too bad a job of organising the better players around them. i dont care if he cant pass wind as long as he does the dirty work for the flair players to do theyre thing ill be more than happy to support him.