The Mail Bag
KEIOC
Comments (27)
No offence against KEIOC, but it is it just me who thinks their actions are turning Evertonians against one another?
For a start, since this group came into substance I have started doubting the credentials of some Evertonians. With me being a "Yes" voter, obviously the fans I question are the "No" voters.
Now I firmly believe if it wasn't for the KEIOC I would never have been in this position to doubt fellow blues (the best fans in the world). I find the group manipulative, deceiving, disrespectful to people from Kirkby and that they also try and use propaganda to force their veiws on fans. No offence against KEIOC but I believe it is them who are ultimately responsible for the constant bickering between the "Yes" and "No" voters.
News today revealed they are planning a "peaceful" protest on Saturday before the Man Utd game. One question: WHY?
Do they really think the club have not looked at sites within the city "boundaries", that they have just said "fuck off we are going to Kirkby"? Have they fuck!
The sooner that KEIOC diminish and fade away into distant memory the better I say. I really think their planned protest is going to cause more bad than good.
John Nelson, Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:59:05
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Garry Nickson
1 Posted 12/09/2007 at 04:25:06
1 Posted 12/09/2007 at 04:25:06
I wouldn’t go as far as that John, but have to agree on the vaildity of the protest.
I am all for the group continuing to push for the club to evaluate all options - any potential move to Kirkby (and this still must be viewed as a potential move, not set in stone)is still a few years away and in the meantime, other options may become available, but what exactly are they protesting about?
The fact that they are in the minority of those who voted? There was a vote, they lost, and now seem hell-bent on causing further division by protesting against the decision of fellow Blues.
Not the most constructive thing to do, in my opinion.
I am all for the group continuing to push for the club to evaluate all options - any potential move to Kirkby (and this still must be viewed as a potential move, not set in stone)is still a few years away and in the meantime, other options may become available, but what exactly are they protesting about?
The fact that they are in the minority of those who voted? There was a vote, they lost, and now seem hell-bent on causing further division by protesting against the decision of fellow Blues.
Not the most constructive thing to do, in my opinion.
Eric Myles
2 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:05:24
2 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:05:24
I find the group manipulative, deceiving, disrespectful to people from Kirkby and that they also try and use propaganda to force their veiws on fans
Sorry, who are we describing here? Sounds a lot like BK and KW to me.
Sorry, who are we describing here? Sounds a lot like BK and KW to me.
Steve L
3 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:25:10
3 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:25:10
Michael, I must take exception to the "rather than making a real erffort to convince people with some consistent facts and numbers (rather than empty promises)". KEIOC have been scaremongering and providing not consistent facts and numbers themselves. I haven’t heard one accurate figure or fact to prove that rebuilding Goodison or moving to "the loop" are costed and viable - surely they are more empty promises than Kirkby.
Next someone will suggest moving as far as Speke as a good idea ’cause it’s in the city (and even further from the City centre than Kirkby).
Next someone will suggest moving as far as Speke as a good idea ’cause it’s in the city (and even further from the City centre than Kirkby).
Brian Wolf
4 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:57:19
4 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:57:19
KEIOC always talk about facts and figures.
Truth is, we’ve seen none from them.
Peaceful protest my backside, if it does turn out to be peaceful I’ll be surprised.
Truth is, we’ve seen none from them.
Peaceful protest my backside, if it does turn out to be peaceful I’ll be surprised.
Sean Rothwell
5 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:34:07
5 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:34:07
Totally agree with John’s sentiments. KEIOC, however vocal and dogged they have been, have been extremely divisive, self-righteous and utterly dismissive of any view other than their own since this whole thing started. They are also particularly rude to you if you politely tell them you don’t want one of their leaflets. They purport to represent what is best for the Club but their whole attitude smacks of selfishness and petulance.
Why, for God’s sake, can they not just accept that the vote did not go the way they would have liked? Why do they have to keep bitching about it? Why can they not now channel their collective energies into coming up with an alternative proposal? In my opinion, the answer to all of these questions is because they can’t. They are a very, very small group of fans and all they are capable of doing is moaning and arguing. Do they honestly believe that the Club is (a) going to question the integrity of the ERS? (b) pay for a revote? (c) abandon a years work because a small group of ’fans’ are standing outside the stadium with home-made banners? If they do then they are clearly more deluded than I thought. I don’t understand how they consistently present themselves as over and above both the Club and the majority of its fans. It’s like the Lib Dems telling Labour and the Tories that they are the only ones who know how to run the country properly. KEIOC can keep protesting all they want but it’s not going to change anything. Coming up with an alternative proposal might change things slightly. But they won’t (probably can’t) do that. It’s much easy just to whine and bitch about it.
I can just see them standing on Goodison Road with the hand-painted banners during the first game in the new stadium, whilst 50,000 real Evertonians cheer us to victory, maybe then the penny will drop for them.
Why, for God’s sake, can they not just accept that the vote did not go the way they would have liked? Why do they have to keep bitching about it? Why can they not now channel their collective energies into coming up with an alternative proposal? In my opinion, the answer to all of these questions is because they can’t. They are a very, very small group of fans and all they are capable of doing is moaning and arguing. Do they honestly believe that the Club is (a) going to question the integrity of the ERS? (b) pay for a revote? (c) abandon a years work because a small group of ’fans’ are standing outside the stadium with home-made banners? If they do then they are clearly more deluded than I thought. I don’t understand how they consistently present themselves as over and above both the Club and the majority of its fans. It’s like the Lib Dems telling Labour and the Tories that they are the only ones who know how to run the country properly. KEIOC can keep protesting all they want but it’s not going to change anything. Coming up with an alternative proposal might change things slightly. But they won’t (probably can’t) do that. It’s much easy just to whine and bitch about it.
I can just see them standing on Goodison Road with the hand-painted banners during the first game in the new stadium, whilst 50,000 real Evertonians cheer us to victory, maybe then the penny will drop for them.
John Nelson
6 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:52:26
6 Posted 12/09/2007 at 08:52:26
Steve L, you’re spot on mate.
KEIOC accuse the club of being full of empty promises and false facts - whilst they are actually guilty of it themselves!
Don’t get me wrong I would love the club to look in depth at options within the "boundaries" (most notably "The Loop") whilst continuing with the Kirkby scheme - they would be wrong to dismiss everything else and pin their hopes on one possible outcome. But what they (and we of fans of course) don’t need is some arrogant and ignorant minority group telling them (and us) what is right and wrong, attacking every move they make and staging stupid protests outside the ground on matchdays.
Football is about opinions as we all know, and without a doubt everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don’t think the tactics that KEIOC employ are fair.
KEIOC accuse the club of being full of empty promises and false facts - whilst they are actually guilty of it themselves!
Don’t get me wrong I would love the club to look in depth at options within the "boundaries" (most notably "The Loop") whilst continuing with the Kirkby scheme - they would be wrong to dismiss everything else and pin their hopes on one possible outcome. But what they (and we of fans of course) don’t need is some arrogant and ignorant minority group telling them (and us) what is right and wrong, attacking every move they make and staging stupid protests outside the ground on matchdays.
Football is about opinions as we all know, and without a doubt everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don’t think the tactics that KEIOC employ are fair.
John Nelson
7 Posted 12/09/2007 at 09:16:02
7 Posted 12/09/2007 at 09:16:02
Thanks Sean mate for providing further clarification on what the KEIOC are - a bunch of moaners and arguers. If they continue to do things this way they will never (and fully deserve not to) get what they want.
Brian Waring
8 Posted 12/09/2007 at 10:29:44
8 Posted 12/09/2007 at 10:29:44
Do you know what John?You could have removed the KEIOC title,and replaced it with Kenwright and Wyness.
Brian Wolf
9 Posted 12/09/2007 at 11:16:43
9 Posted 12/09/2007 at 11:16:43
Well you could Brian but then you would have to get rid of all the bit about peaceful protests well, basically the last three paragraphs or it wouldn’t read right.
Brian Waring
10 Posted 12/09/2007 at 13:01:52
10 Posted 12/09/2007 at 13:01:52
Your right Brian.Maybe under a new title of Kenwright and Wyness,some of the words that John used against KEIOC,could be applied to BK and KW.Like,manipulative,deceiving,disrespectful,use of propaganda.And maybe when he says "But,I believe it is them who are ultimitely responsible for the bickering between the "yes" and "No" voters.This also could be applied to BK and KW.It’s okay John slating KEIOC.But,at the end of the day,BK and KW have been just as bad.
John Nelson
11 Posted 12/09/2007 at 13:56:02
11 Posted 12/09/2007 at 13:56:02
Brian Waring, how have Bill Kenwright and Keith Wyness been just as bad?
The only thing I point the finger at BK and KW is the fact that they solely concentrated on the Kirkby project and offered no other viable alternatives. However, despite BK’s failed promises in the past, and as embarrassing as they were, I would rather put my faith in him and KW than a minority group of hindrances. That’s all KEIOC are, a fucking hindrance!
The only thing I point the finger at BK and KW is the fact that they solely concentrated on the Kirkby project and offered no other viable alternatives. However, despite BK’s failed promises in the past, and as embarrassing as they were, I would rather put my faith in him and KW than a minority group of hindrances. That’s all KEIOC are, a fucking hindrance!
Steve Lyth
12 Posted 12/09/2007 at 19:04:08
12 Posted 12/09/2007 at 19:04:08
John Nelson how niaeve are you lad, do you honestly think KEIOC influenced people into voting No ?
Are you saying No voters were not capable of individual thought ?
KEIOC were and are the public mouthpiece representing those of us who were and are not, satisfied with the Boards proposals.
If you supported the board, you had no need of such a voice. In any democracy there should be opposition, KEIOC oppose the board like me because they do not believe the proposals are in the best long term interests of Everton Football Club. Its that fuckin simple and on that basis of course the support is split, grow up.
Are you saying No voters were not capable of individual thought ?
KEIOC were and are the public mouthpiece representing those of us who were and are not, satisfied with the Boards proposals.
If you supported the board, you had no need of such a voice. In any democracy there should be opposition, KEIOC oppose the board like me because they do not believe the proposals are in the best long term interests of Everton Football Club. Its that fuckin simple and on that basis of course the support is split, grow up.
Bob Turner
13 Posted 12/09/2007 at 20:32:53
13 Posted 12/09/2007 at 20:32:53
Steve, it’s somewhat ironic to hear a "No" voter complaining that "Yes" voters consider them gullible and stupid for believing what they have been told (by KEIOC) and persuading them to vote no.
This is what the "Yes" voters have been listening to for weeks....
This is what the "Yes" voters have been listening to for weeks....
Steve Lyth
14 Posted 12/09/2007 at 21:57:53
14 Posted 12/09/2007 at 21:57:53
Bob, not from me they haven,t.
If people voted Yes so be it, I can respect anyones position but for me and others the fight goes on.Best wishes to you and your,s mate, the only people I cannot respect on here are those who are chucking the vote down peoples throats on the strengh of 5000.
Hardly the majority of Evertonians is it Bob.
If people voted Yes so be it, I can respect anyones position but for me and others the fight goes on.Best wishes to you and your,s mate, the only people I cannot respect on here are those who are chucking the vote down peoples throats on the strengh of 5000.
Hardly the majority of Evertonians is it Bob.
Mark Lester
15 Posted 12/09/2007 at 23:25:38
15 Posted 12/09/2007 at 23:25:38
What made me laugh was then same people who complained about the Kirby stadium plans looking dodgy got hugely excited about the loop plan , which looked like it had been done on windows 95. I?m not even going to mention the white roofless goodison.
Tony Miller
16 Posted 12/09/2007 at 23:50:30
16 Posted 12/09/2007 at 23:50:30
Steve Lynth.
You are right to say KEIOC are the public voice of No voters and those who voted No are the ones who have something to protest about albeit this needs to be done properly,
As you say those who voted Yes do not need to protest but some and I include myself will very now and then comment on the No camps views.
This is in the reason why as Michael Kenrick smarmily put they APEAR to be extinct.
Its not that they are extinct it?s just that they have in the main less to complain about as up to now they have gained the decision they wanted.
You are right to say KEIOC are the public voice of No voters and those who voted No are the ones who have something to protest about albeit this needs to be done properly,
As you say those who voted Yes do not need to protest but some and I include myself will very now and then comment on the No camps views.
This is in the reason why as Michael Kenrick smarmily put they APEAR to be extinct.
Its not that they are extinct it?s just that they have in the main less to complain about as up to now they have gained the decision they wanted.
Bob Turner
17 Posted 13/09/2007 at 08:24:59
17 Posted 13/09/2007 at 08:24:59
But Steve, it’s exactly that - a majority. More people voted "yes" than voted "no".
It appears to me that the "No" voters assume that everyone else who didn’t vote/get a vote would vote no. Surely the best evidence we have (the 20 odd thousand people who did vote) suggests that, if everyone else voted, it would be in the ratio of 60% yes, 40% no.
Government opinion polls are done on much smaller sample sizes than 20 odd thousand people.
It appears to me that the "No" voters assume that everyone else who didn’t vote/get a vote would vote no. Surely the best evidence we have (the 20 odd thousand people who did vote) suggests that, if everyone else voted, it would be in the ratio of 60% yes, 40% no.
Government opinion polls are done on much smaller sample sizes than 20 odd thousand people.
John Nelson
18 Posted 13/09/2007 at 08:58:18
18 Posted 13/09/2007 at 08:58:18
Steve Lyth, read my article again please - I clearly said that without a doubt everyone is entitled to their opinion. Now their opinions may be extreme and way off course - but still it’s their opinion and they are entitled to it.
I just think they way KEIOC come accross is really untoward, aggressive and self-righteous in their views - for these reasons, they are shedding a bad light amongst you "No" voters.
I think it is a good idea that an opposition group has came up against the Kirkby move, as it might push the club to explore other options. But constantly slagging the club off, picking at every move they make and planning to do a daft protest outside the ground on a match day (when the only thing people are interested in is the football being played, not the fucking ground they are watching it in) is the wrong way to go about things.
I just think they way KEIOC come accross is really untoward, aggressive and self-righteous in their views - for these reasons, they are shedding a bad light amongst you "No" voters.
I think it is a good idea that an opposition group has came up against the Kirkby move, as it might push the club to explore other options. But constantly slagging the club off, picking at every move they make and planning to do a daft protest outside the ground on a match day (when the only thing people are interested in is the football being played, not the fucking ground they are watching it in) is the wrong way to go about things.
Steve Lyth
19 Posted 13/09/2007 at 09:50:49
19 Posted 13/09/2007 at 09:50:49
John Nelson, "KEIOC are a fucking hinderance" " "I think its a good idea that an opposition group has come up against the Kirkby move"
Double standards dont you think ?
Bob, the only reason we got a vote is because Bill wants to sleep at night, to quote loosely his words " I dont want to go down in history as the man who took Everton away from Goodison". Well he wont now because he had 15000 other people backing him up.
KEIOC, aggressive,facists, I have heard it all over the forum from people who voted yes, what exactly are they doing outside of exposing the mismanagent of our club ? Bill Kenwright wants this move for his own ends in my opinion and I dont think its in the best interests of our football club long term.I think other people are of the same opinion, how aggressive is that ?
Double standards dont you think ?
Bob, the only reason we got a vote is because Bill wants to sleep at night, to quote loosely his words " I dont want to go down in history as the man who took Everton away from Goodison". Well he wont now because he had 15000 other people backing him up.
KEIOC, aggressive,facists, I have heard it all over the forum from people who voted yes, what exactly are they doing outside of exposing the mismanagent of our club ? Bill Kenwright wants this move for his own ends in my opinion and I dont think its in the best interests of our football club long term.I think other people are of the same opinion, how aggressive is that ?
John Nelson
20 Posted 13/09/2007 at 10:28:36
20 Posted 13/09/2007 at 10:28:36
Steve Lyth, the KEIOC are a hindrance due to the way they have presented themselves and the way they go about things - they are doing more fucking harm than good.
If they went about things in the right manner to push for further ground options i.e. by not being ignorant and snotty towards people who disagree to them, then fair play to them.
So no, double standards I don’t think
If they went about things in the right manner to push for further ground options i.e. by not being ignorant and snotty towards people who disagree to them, then fair play to them.
So no, double standards I don’t think
Steve Lyth
21 Posted 13/09/2007 at 10:44:22
21 Posted 13/09/2007 at 10:44:22
KEIOC are a hindrance because you say so John ?
Well I guess thats okay then, maybe they will shut up shop once they learn of your opinion.
"Ignorant and Snotty", have KEIOC treated you in this way John ?
This peaceful protest OUTSIDE of the ground Saturday, not in the right manner ? Be honest John you just want them to go away because they are a "fucking hinderance", you are definately full of double standards John.
Well I guess thats okay then, maybe they will shut up shop once they learn of your opinion.
"Ignorant and Snotty", have KEIOC treated you in this way John ?
This peaceful protest OUTSIDE of the ground Saturday, not in the right manner ? Be honest John you just want them to go away because they are a "fucking hinderance", you are definately full of double standards John.
John Nelson
22 Posted 13/09/2007 at 11:18:00
22 Posted 13/09/2007 at 11:18:00
Steve Lyth, you are another example of someone who likes to mis-interpret information for their own liking.
KEIOC aren’t a hindrance because I say so - I BELIEVE them to be. Please take note Steve I am not stating FACTS, I am stating things HOW I SEE THEM.
Yes, they are planning a supposed "peaceful" protest OUTSIDE of the ground on Saturday - but why though? Who gives a fuck about the ground move hours before a big game? In MY OPINION they are trying to make an effort to sway people’s opinion and views on the ground move situation - tell me Steve, does this not define "manipulation", and also is this not in the right manner?
I want them to go away if they continue to act like they do because they are pushing Evertonians further and further apart.
Also Steve, how can the club take KEIOC seriously when they have produced those God awful images of a re-developed Goodison? Do you really expect the club to take that utter shite seriously?
KEIOC aren’t a hindrance because I say so - I BELIEVE them to be. Please take note Steve I am not stating FACTS, I am stating things HOW I SEE THEM.
Yes, they are planning a supposed "peaceful" protest OUTSIDE of the ground on Saturday - but why though? Who gives a fuck about the ground move hours before a big game? In MY OPINION they are trying to make an effort to sway people’s opinion and views on the ground move situation - tell me Steve, does this not define "manipulation", and also is this not in the right manner?
I want them to go away if they continue to act like they do because they are pushing Evertonians further and further apart.
Also Steve, how can the club take KEIOC seriously when they have produced those God awful images of a re-developed Goodison? Do you really expect the club to take that utter shite seriously?
Steve Lyth
23 Posted 13/09/2007 at 12:26:20
23 Posted 13/09/2007 at 12:26:20
John, I am going to call time on my end of things now, trying to sway public opinion is not manipulation mate.
Your making out that KEIOC are like an evil force when in actuall fact they care about the club just as much as you do.
I have seen no intimidation of individuals who voted yes by KEIOC, are you saying they are practicing such methods ? You are well over the top with your view of this organisation IMO.The fans are divided over a number of issues, we all have different views, thats not KEIOCs fault is it John ? Sorry if you think I mis-interpreted you, I thought I was bang on.
Your making out that KEIOC are like an evil force when in actuall fact they care about the club just as much as you do.
I have seen no intimidation of individuals who voted yes by KEIOC, are you saying they are practicing such methods ? You are well over the top with your view of this organisation IMO.The fans are divided over a number of issues, we all have different views, thats not KEIOCs fault is it John ? Sorry if you think I mis-interpreted you, I thought I was bang on.
John Nelson
24 Posted 13/09/2007 at 13:16:10
24 Posted 13/09/2007 at 13:16:10
Steve, in a nutshell I believe KEIOC to be over-zealous in their antics. Don’t get me wrong mate, a lot of people including yourself disagree with me, but, like repeated many times in this discussion, it is only my opinion.
I just want what is best for the club at present and in the long run - I firmly believe KEIOC staging protests, handing leaflets out and constantly bickering about the club doesn’t help things.
I just want what is best for the club at present and in the long run - I firmly believe KEIOC staging protests, handing leaflets out and constantly bickering about the club doesn’t help things.
Kevin Mitchell
25 Posted 13/09/2007 at 21:34:29
25 Posted 13/09/2007 at 21:34:29
John Nelson. I’m really sorry that KEIOC and us no voters are upsetting you. We’ll just keep quiet then about what we see as the destruction of our club. Yes I’ll just start believing what bullshit Kenwright and Wyness are throwing at us and do nothing. Some of the yes voters on here, you included, are hell bent on Kirkby because you’ve been told how great it’s going to be, and thats good enough for you.
Well it’s not good enough for me.
Well it’s not good enough for me.
John Nelson
26 Posted 14/09/2007 at 08:37:01
26 Posted 14/09/2007 at 08:37:01
Kevin Mitchell, you are again another example of a "No" voter reverting to extreme measures - "the destruction of our club" for fuck’s sake? Fucking grow up!
Since when have I said I’m hell bent on Kirkby? I have said it is the best option at present but if you actually fucking READ MY ARTICLES I have always said that we should look at other options.
I’m sorry mate but you’re just another "No" voter who persistantly acts like a spoilt 5 year old who hasn’t got his own way.
Since when have I said I’m hell bent on Kirkby? I have said it is the best option at present but if you actually fucking READ MY ARTICLES I have always said that we should look at other options.
I’m sorry mate but you’re just another "No" voter who persistantly acts like a spoilt 5 year old who hasn’t got his own way.
Kevin Mitchell
27 Posted 15/09/2007 at 09:24:22
27 Posted 15/09/2007 at 09:24:22
John Nelson. You say Kirkby is the best option at present and we suould look at other options.
The fact is It’s the only option that kenwright and wyness have or will look at (exclusivity period) and by voting yes you’ve given them your blessing to carry on with that. The only way they would look at other options was by voting no. Can’t you see you’ve been funnelled down one path only.(no option b) From what I’ve read on this site most yes voters say they would prefere to stay in the city, if thats the case then a no vote to Kirkby would have been the way to make them look at other plans. And I will continue to act like a spoilt child for as long as it takes! If you can’t see the commercial suicide in this move then there’s no need to carry on this argument.
The fact is It’s the only option that kenwright and wyness have or will look at (exclusivity period) and by voting yes you’ve given them your blessing to carry on with that. The only way they would look at other options was by voting no. Can’t you see you’ve been funnelled down one path only.(no option b) From what I’ve read on this site most yes voters say they would prefere to stay in the city, if thats the case then a no vote to Kirkby would have been the way to make them look at other plans. And I will continue to act like a spoilt child for as long as it takes! If you can’t see the commercial suicide in this move then there’s no need to carry on this argument.
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