The Mail Bag
What should we have realistically achieved against Man U?
Comments (23)
There's been a number of threads started this afternoon condemning the Everton's performance against a Manchester United, whose squad was so weak that the game was 'ours for the taking' and which we 'should be beating comfortably'.
Let's look at the teams on paper. Man Utd's squad at Goodison today cost them nearly £110M. That does not take into account the value of Giggs, Scholes, Brown who came through the youth team or Tevez who is on loan and hasn't cost them anything yet Not to mention, the average wage at Utd must be at least £60k/week, some of them on excess of £100k/week.
The average wage of the Everton squad must be £20 - £30k and cost us just over £45M. That's less than Man Utd spent on Rooney and Hargreaves, who weren't even available for today's game. As for players on the pitch it's similar to the combined cost of Ferdinand and Ronaldo. They had two players on the bench who each eclipsed the cost of our record signing (Nani and Saha).
So there you have it. On paper there is no way on this earth that we should be competing even with 'such an average' Man Utd side. Especially, not when our keeper is out injured and we've got some bloke none of us have even heard of in net, and when we're missing arguably two of our best players in Cahill and Vaughan as well as our most experienced player in the form of Stubbsy.
I'm not having a go at the Everton fans who made those comments, nor am I happy with the result; I'm gutted we didn't get anything out of a game in which we matched Man Utd and which was decided by a set-piece. My point is I think it's great that our expectations have become so high and I think it says wonders about what Moyes has achieved on what is a comparatively tight budget.
So it is on that note that I disagree with fans who want Moyes out. I think to an extent he's become the victim of his own high standards. Look at where we are now compared to when he joined and consider how much he's spent compared to team around us. I know we haven't won anything but I honestly think we'd be fighting for promotion to the Prem rather than for Europe if it wasn't for him.
We all think we know better than him but in truth we don't. None of us have any idea how difficult it is to manage a Premier League side. It's easy to say 'he should have done this' and 'he should have done that' but we're playing against some bloody good opposition who will try and counter everyhting we do. It's not like managing a Sunday league side and it's not like playing Championship Manager.
I'm a B-License coach and I coach a semi-professional academy side and trust me it's not easy ? he wouldn't be a Pro-License coach if he didn't know what he was doing. In conclusion Moyes knows better than you, he knows better than us who our best players are, and he knows which partnerships and which systems work best against the opposition.
So yeah, it's great that our expectations are so high - but lets not forget that if it wasn't for our outstanding manager (in my opinion), we wouldn't have such high expectations.
Mark Stone, Posted 15/09/2007 at 16:06:33
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Lars Eidissen
2 Posted 15/09/2007 at 20:22:28
2 Posted 15/09/2007 at 20:22:28
That?s great perspective. Moyes has raised expectations amongst all of us. After the heartbreaking spring defeat I wanted some sort of redemption (other heartbreakers including the 0-3 comeback turned sour springs to mind too), which makes the defeat even harder to take (even though today we probably deserved just a draw at a very best).
Last season we competed very favourably versus Arsenal and Liverpool in our games against them, and were hard done by against Chelsea and Man United. Add into the mix our 10 points from 5 start, and I want a result, preferably a win, home against any side. That?s huge credit to Moyes though for setting my bar there.
Last season we competed very favourably versus Arsenal and Liverpool in our games against them, and were hard done by against Chelsea and Man United. Add into the mix our 10 points from 5 start, and I want a result, preferably a win, home against any side. That?s huge credit to Moyes though for setting my bar there.
If we are to harbour thoughts of even challenging for top 4 (and we should), we need to be getting results consistently at home against the very best. So today was a setback, and perhaps harder to take in than the April defeat were we gave them a severe scare.
I agree McFadden should have had more time on the pitch. Hopefully we can be a bit lucky with injuries this season, and in that case we should do very well once Cahill, Vaughany, Howard and Gravesen are back.
Tough set of fixtures ahead now, though, so fingers crossed for a win at Villa Park.
Barry Bragg
3 Posted 15/09/2007 at 23:12:55
3 Posted 15/09/2007 at 23:12:55
I am finding it difficult to believe people are criticising the performance today. I thought we matched united all the way in what was a pretty even contest. We also played some decent joined up footy at times and were unlucky not to get the draw. Obviuoslyt dissappointed with the result but very happy with the display. Thought Baines was outstanding. What a good buy that was!
Jim Hourigan
4 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:59:34
4 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:59:34
Mark with your badge and having gone through the training, you too must realise that there is no single agreed way to train or coach a team. You must also agree that there are some real plonkers who have passed these qualifications because they say and do ’the right things’ to pass the exams. Moyes might have passed the exams but that does not make him a good coach by default, what will ultimately be the deciding factor is his success - and the jury is very much out on that.
I too have got badges and played, trained, coached and managed at semi pro level but that does not make me a good manager because i have a certificate. I totally endorse the idea of all coaches and managers having the right qualifications but to infer that Moyes automatically knows what he is doing and is making the right decision infers that there is a standard way to achieve success and it can be learned through a text book. That is clearly not the case - Ferguson took his captain off midway through the second half and replaced him with a player not fully fit - standard practice or intuition or just a hunch. Moyes took our captain off 5 mins from the end in desperation. Who’s got a badge?
ps it’s not Ferguson !!!
I too have got badges and played, trained, coached and managed at semi pro level but that does not make me a good manager because i have a certificate. I totally endorse the idea of all coaches and managers having the right qualifications but to infer that Moyes automatically knows what he is doing and is making the right decision infers that there is a standard way to achieve success and it can be learned through a text book. That is clearly not the case - Ferguson took his captain off midway through the second half and replaced him with a player not fully fit - standard practice or intuition or just a hunch. Moyes took our captain off 5 mins from the end in desperation. Who’s got a badge?
ps it’s not Ferguson !!!
Mark Stone
5 Posted 16/09/2007 at 01:00:28
5 Posted 16/09/2007 at 01:00:28
To be honest Jim, my main point was really about the fact that our expectations wouldn’t be so high if it wasn’t for what Moyes had already achieved. If turning us round from relegation candidates year in year out was that easy why didn’t Walter Smith, Kendall Mk II/III, Colin Harvey or any of the others manage it?
But in answer to your post, what I was getting at was fans, many of whom have jack shit experience of coaching or playing football at any decent level, coming on here and mouthing off that they know better than Moyes. With the exception of a minority of Everton fans - Moyes is highly regarded by just about everyone in football.
But in answer to your post, what I was getting at was fans, many of whom have jack shit experience of coaching or playing football at any decent level, coming on here and mouthing off that they know better than Moyes. With the exception of a minority of Everton fans - Moyes is highly regarded by just about everyone in football.
Michael Kenrick
6 Posted 16/09/2007 at 04:06:03
6 Posted 16/09/2007 at 04:06:03
Mark, isn?t that just what they said about Walter Smith? When the smarter Evertonians had finally had enough and turned against hin, fully 18 months before he finally left, the wise football pundits to a man continued to express the greatest respect for the sage old Scot, and failed to understand the groundswell that finally ousted him. And the knowledgeable opinions of "those in football" should change how we feel about our manager? We are the ones who watch every match, who live nad breath what happens to this club. On what basis must we defer our judgement to those who are (mostly) not even Evertonians? In facyty, a number of tehm are Liverpudlians. What?s that ratio again, Brian?
Quite frankly, this "raised expections" stuff is another phrase that really gets on my tits. What exactly are you saying? Isn?t the objective to get better... to perhaps actually win something? Progress is painfully slow at times. Perhaps this Thursday will give us a better indication of what progress we have really made since the last European Adventure...
Quite frankly, this "raised expections" stuff is another phrase that really gets on my tits. What exactly are you saying? Isn?t the objective to get better... to perhaps actually win something? Progress is painfully slow at times. Perhaps this Thursday will give us a better indication of what progress we have really made since the last European Adventure...
Richard Parker
7 Posted 16/09/2007 at 06:26:27
7 Posted 16/09/2007 at 06:26:27
First of all, I am a supporter of Moyes. I really feel that he has turned our club around, with some luck in the form of Rooney’s emergence and the steadying of the club’s finances.
He has taken the opportunities presented to him and he has built upon them.
Plenty of managers have squandered much greater pots of cash than Moyes.
I feel that in general we are moving in the right direction and yesterday morning, I was really looking forward to the game.
The way we came out at them at the start of the 2nd half was exactly what I wanted to see. We have the players to get into the top sides and have a go. We don’t need to give anyone respect, but I felt that’s what happened.
We set-up defensively, Neville and Jagielka in the middle of the park were always going to struggle to make an impact against Scholes and Carrick. The front men were very isolated and the only time we had any openings came from Yakubu’s strength in holding the ball from 3 defenders.
I’m not claiming to know better than Moyes, but I think the blame here lies with the players. I thought at times they looked scared of United and no-one, even Arteta, demanded the ball and slowed things down.
I also don’t understand the decision to leave McFadden on the bench for so long.
But there you go, Moyes lives and dies by his decisions and he needs to make some good ones before Thursday!
He has taken the opportunities presented to him and he has built upon them.
Plenty of managers have squandered much greater pots of cash than Moyes.
I feel that in general we are moving in the right direction and yesterday morning, I was really looking forward to the game.
The way we came out at them at the start of the 2nd half was exactly what I wanted to see. We have the players to get into the top sides and have a go. We don’t need to give anyone respect, but I felt that’s what happened.
We set-up defensively, Neville and Jagielka in the middle of the park were always going to struggle to make an impact against Scholes and Carrick. The front men were very isolated and the only time we had any openings came from Yakubu’s strength in holding the ball from 3 defenders.
I’m not claiming to know better than Moyes, but I think the blame here lies with the players. I thought at times they looked scared of United and no-one, even Arteta, demanded the ball and slowed things down.
I also don’t understand the decision to leave McFadden on the bench for so long.
But there you go, Moyes lives and dies by his decisions and he needs to make some good ones before Thursday!
Derek Thomas
8 Posted 16/09/2007 at 07:10:45
8 Posted 16/09/2007 at 07:10:45
Fair points taken one at a time but not the whole story
Now, not only is it all about results, it’s about how many tickets and of what calibre the manager has.
I know football has changed over the years, some things still remain the same...win is good, lose is bad and a draw is either a point lost or gained depending on the circumstances.
Theory’s fine, the hard part is putting it into practice, so in one sense IT IS results that count. Remember when Glen Roeder was doing well at Newcastle as a ’temp’ the club has to move heaven and earth to get permission for him to carry on coz he DIDN’T have the tickets, he seemed to know what he was doing tho’ they were winning more than they were losing...and then what happened??
Nobody, I hope, will take away all the pluses that Moyes has and does bring to the club, not withstanding the constraints he has to work around.
But don’t let it blind you to his minuses, be they self inflicted or no (see above). The Leopard does not and can not change his spots.
He MAY be the best we can get, given our circumstances and he isn’t the worst we could have, we no doubt, COULD do worse... But the pendulum on my Moyes-Swing-o-meter is set firmly on dead centre, Not proven! the other two being, dithering defensive dreary Dave and Moyesiah.
Fe, fo, fi, fa, I smell (the slight) smell of an apoligisTA.
Now, not only is it all about results, it’s about how many tickets and of what calibre the manager has.
I know football has changed over the years, some things still remain the same...win is good, lose is bad and a draw is either a point lost or gained depending on the circumstances.
Theory’s fine, the hard part is putting it into practice, so in one sense IT IS results that count. Remember when Glen Roeder was doing well at Newcastle as a ’temp’ the club has to move heaven and earth to get permission for him to carry on coz he DIDN’T have the tickets, he seemed to know what he was doing tho’ they were winning more than they were losing...and then what happened??
Nobody, I hope, will take away all the pluses that Moyes has and does bring to the club, not withstanding the constraints he has to work around.
But don’t let it blind you to his minuses, be they self inflicted or no (see above). The Leopard does not and can not change his spots.
He MAY be the best we can get, given our circumstances and he isn’t the worst we could have, we no doubt, COULD do worse... But the pendulum on my Moyes-Swing-o-meter is set firmly on dead centre, Not proven! the other two being, dithering defensive dreary Dave and Moyesiah.
Fe, fo, fi, fa, I smell (the slight) smell of an apoligisTA.
AT
9 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:23:07
9 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:23:07
I’m not too disapointed with the result. I think with Cahill back, a new midfielder and AJ and Yak (hopefully) firing we will be ok. No matter what you say about Man U’s start to the season, they are the champions and they do have a quality squad. Even if the obvious candidates weren’t playing. I think in my opinion that it’s best to keep our heads down and put the preparation in for Thursday. They’re an unknown to us and we have bitter experience of Eastern European teams (remember?) May be Fads will get the run out he deserves? One think is vital. A clean sheet at home and at least a couple of goals to take over there.
patty blue
10 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:56:57
10 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:56:57
Well said - I agree completely with the writer of this letter - give Moyes a chance - I think he is doing a wonderful job and will continue to do
People like Tony Marsh should f off and support another team, preferably the red shite - I am sure they would appreciate him. As for me, like many others no doubt, I am fed up with his non-stop whingeing and pessimistic attitude. Note that he never says anything good about Everton and in particular Moyes, when we play a good game, for instance against Spurs.
People like Tony Marsh should f off and support another team, preferably the red shite - I am sure they would appreciate him. As for me, like many others no doubt, I am fed up with his non-stop whingeing and pessimistic attitude. Note that he never says anything good about Everton and in particular Moyes, when we play a good game, for instance against Spurs.
Neil McKinney
11 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:42:32
11 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:42:32
Very disappointing result, but I think think Mark does put some much needed perspective on it.
Of course we should be looking at where we lost it and whether there was anything that could have been done to change that, but let’s come back down to earth please.
Man Utd are champions and have spent some £50m improving their title winning side! We were 6th last season and have spent half that improving our side!
Yes we were at home, and yes we probably had our best chance of getting three points from the scum at a time when they are struggling a bit, but the Man Utd chat rooms will still probably be slagging their team off, despite an away win that saw them go top briefly. Now that’s high expectations!
As other posts have said, it is progression in itself that we were so optimistic about a result against a team that have won almost all their Premiership games at Goodison! Our expectations should definitely be higher, but not astronomical!
I have read comments on articles about our aspirations this season, which tell other fans to "calm down" and "don’t get carried away", then when we lose to the champions 1-0 in a tight game it’s all doom and gloom. Getting points from Man Utd is still a big achievement for our team at the moment, hopefully in seasons to come that will change.
There is criticism to be handed out, but get some perspective please and get back behind the team and manager for the next game.
COYB
Of course we should be looking at where we lost it and whether there was anything that could have been done to change that, but let’s come back down to earth please.
Man Utd are champions and have spent some £50m improving their title winning side! We were 6th last season and have spent half that improving our side!
Yes we were at home, and yes we probably had our best chance of getting three points from the scum at a time when they are struggling a bit, but the Man Utd chat rooms will still probably be slagging their team off, despite an away win that saw them go top briefly. Now that’s high expectations!
As other posts have said, it is progression in itself that we were so optimistic about a result against a team that have won almost all their Premiership games at Goodison! Our expectations should definitely be higher, but not astronomical!
I have read comments on articles about our aspirations this season, which tell other fans to "calm down" and "don’t get carried away", then when we lose to the champions 1-0 in a tight game it’s all doom and gloom. Getting points from Man Utd is still a big achievement for our team at the moment, hopefully in seasons to come that will change.
There is criticism to be handed out, but get some perspective please and get back behind the team and manager for the next game.
COYB
Dave Lynch
12 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:23:43
12 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:23:43
Patty.
How long do you want to give him.
Is 5 years not enough to at least warrant some decent football, you mention the Spurs game but fail to mention the many games of dross we have had to endure over the years.
I feel it is you that needs to go and follow another team.
If you want to accept mediocraty then go and accept it somewhere else.
As for badges ? Graham Taylor, Bryan Robson and possibly all managers in the lower leagues have coaching badges, would you accept them as managers ?
Badges mean nothing if you don’t have a feel or instinct for the game.
I don’t have to defend TM. He is more than capable of that himself, but after the Spurs game he was full of praise for the team.
How long do you want to give him.
Is 5 years not enough to at least warrant some decent football, you mention the Spurs game but fail to mention the many games of dross we have had to endure over the years.
I feel it is you that needs to go and follow another team.
If you want to accept mediocraty then go and accept it somewhere else.
As for badges ? Graham Taylor, Bryan Robson and possibly all managers in the lower leagues have coaching badges, would you accept them as managers ?
Badges mean nothing if you don’t have a feel or instinct for the game.
I don’t have to defend TM. He is more than capable of that himself, but after the Spurs game he was full of praise for the team.
Steve Lyth
13 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:23:58
13 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:23:58
Mark, I actually expected us to win but in reality we were not worth more than 0-0.There are lots of things that confound me when it comes to our Davey, like thinking Pip is anything more than an average right back.The biggest moan I have about yesterday is that Moyes has said we now have players on the bench who can come on and change games. So what does he do, he brings on Jimmy Mac too late to change anything, that sort of deciscion is all to prevelant with Moyes.We created very little from open play and when Arteta is not up to the mark ( no pun intended ) we are very ordinary.I would agree that we have improved as a team from Walters days but Davey has had five years to get the balance of the squad right and for me he has not achieved that yet.Another couple of creative midfield players and maybe we will become more dynamic, it would be nice to link Daveys name to that word.
Steve Lyth
14 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:54:55
14 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:54:55
Dave, "Badges, badges we dont need no stinking badges", Mel Brooks for chief coach !
tony lea
15 Posted 16/09/2007 at 13:25:14
15 Posted 16/09/2007 at 13:25:14
I think like many others I was expecting us to have a great chance to beat Utd yesterday. However the sight of Neville and Jagielka as our midfield engine did not bode well. They are both defensive minded as is Carsley but none of them are creative. We obviously miss Cahill and I think Gravesen could have added a lot on the attacking front. It was the one glaring requirement over the summer and despite the "Fernades" fiasco Moyes should have been more positive earlier on. Problem may have been the late arrival of the money. If possible this is the one thing we must do someting about in the next few months. Then I feel we are well placed for the future
Colin Potter
16 Posted 16/09/2007 at 13:58:47
16 Posted 16/09/2007 at 13:58:47
Mark,if Moyes has such high expectations,why are having to watch Hibbert and Osman from the start af the match?Why was McFadden allowed 4 or 5 mins to establish himself in the match? For my money I don’t think Moyes has learnt anything from last years Spurs game.He thinks he knows it all,and no one can tell him anything different.
Mark Stone
17 Posted 16/09/2007 at 14:26:11
17 Posted 16/09/2007 at 14:26:11
Michael I think the aim is now to get into Europe, break into the top 4 and win something - but when Moyes took over it was simply to avoid relegation. Compare us to the teams we were battling for relegation with when Moyes took over (Derby, Charlton Sunderland etc). Their aim for this season is either to stay in top flight or or get back into it - we’re light years ahead of them but still Moyes is under more pressure from the fans than their respective managers - because our expectations have been raised no?
And in terms of winning something we’re not going to win the league but that would have taken a magician not a football manager. As for the cups well I’d rather know that we were safe in the top flight, pushing for Europe than win the carling cup and have to battle for survival on the last day.
And in terms of winning something we’re not going to win the league but that would have taken a magician not a football manager. As for the cups well I’d rather know that we were safe in the top flight, pushing for Europe than win the carling cup and have to battle for survival on the last day.
Michael Kenrick
18 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:04:56
18 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:04:56
Mark, what you write epitomizes the appologists’ acceptance of mediocrity, which some are convinced is what holds us back. On one thread someone wrote "United needed the points more than us" as if that were justifcation enough for yet another failure to beat them. I nearly exploded... but change one word and he was right: United WANTED the points more than we did, and they got them.
That desire for winning has to come from Moyes. He has to inspire the players ansd they have to inspire the fans to create the atmposhere that will intimidate yes, even the Mancs. He has to push the boat out. We’ve shown we CAN do it, but only in rare glimpses. Yesterday, he failed to do that. What that has to do with relegation battles from more than five years ago... well, you lost me there.
Dave Lynch
19 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:20:08
19 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:20:08
Treasure of the Sierra Madre that Steve.
Humphrey Go-cart an all that.
Speaking of Humphrey.
Don’t play it again Moyes.
Humphrey Go-cart an all that.
Speaking of Humphrey.
Don’t play it again Moyes.
Steve Lyth
20 Posted 16/09/2007 at 17:06:32
20 Posted 16/09/2007 at 17:06:32
I was thinking more of "Blazing Saddles" Dave
mark-chester
21 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:51:55
21 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:51:55
All in all I thought we deserved a draw against utd yesterday ( i did not go as i had a gruelling 7 hour drive back from our hols in cornwall) but from what i heard and seen on MOTD we played ok, but we missed a that creative touch to win these sorts of games no matter who the opponents are.
Utd did have key players missing, BUT so did we!! CAHILL, HOWARD, VAUGHAN, GRAVESON!! But I do feel that in order to move into the next phase of pregression as ateam and for Moyes as a Manager is too win these games that are there for the taking.
Utd are famous for these sorts of tightly fought last gasp winning games and the closer we got to the 80 minutes the more i had a feeling it would happen.
The negative points from the game were Neville’s piss poor passing, Hibbert’s 1 dimensional play and the lack of drive and creativity in the game, other than that I thought it could of been a lot worse. I just think we tend to shit ourselves against UTD and give them too much respect at times.
Thursday we be a big test for us, Metalist are no mugs, but by the same token they are not great and a positive, confident performance should see us win at least 2-0.
I think this is the season for Moyes now to really answer his critics and prove he is taking us to the next level and i would expect the evidence of that to be another top 6 finish a slightly better run in the domestic cups and a good run in the uefa cup, anything less and i feel we may need to look else where for a leader, it is a defining season for him. At the end of the season he will have had 6 years in charge and I am not saying he won’t do it, but I think this is his biggest test.
Utd did have key players missing, BUT so did we!! CAHILL, HOWARD, VAUGHAN, GRAVESON!! But I do feel that in order to move into the next phase of pregression as ateam and for Moyes as a Manager is too win these games that are there for the taking.
Utd are famous for these sorts of tightly fought last gasp winning games and the closer we got to the 80 minutes the more i had a feeling it would happen.
The negative points from the game were Neville’s piss poor passing, Hibbert’s 1 dimensional play and the lack of drive and creativity in the game, other than that I thought it could of been a lot worse. I just think we tend to shit ourselves against UTD and give them too much respect at times.
Thursday we be a big test for us, Metalist are no mugs, but by the same token they are not great and a positive, confident performance should see us win at least 2-0.
I think this is the season for Moyes now to really answer his critics and prove he is taking us to the next level and i would expect the evidence of that to be another top 6 finish a slightly better run in the domestic cups and a good run in the uefa cup, anything less and i feel we may need to look else where for a leader, it is a defining season for him. At the end of the season he will have had 6 years in charge and I am not saying he won’t do it, but I think this is his biggest test.
Mark Stone
22 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:34:31
22 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:34:31
Cheers for you response Michael. I think it’s a great site your running here and I respect your opinions and think that it’s great that your expectations of what we should be achieving are high. I too have the same expectations and I reckon you’re a top blue
I certainly agree with you that ’they needed the points more than us’ is a shocking take on the matter and I don’t agree with that at all. I went into the game yesterday realistically hoping to take all 3 points and I was gutted with the outcome.
Were our opinions differ though, and I guess we’ll agree to disagree on this, is that I think without Moyes we wouldn’t have been going into the game yesterday with a realistic hope of getting anything out of it. Without Moyes we’d still be a bottom 5 team struggling against relegation each year. My opinion is that he’s turned this club around from shite to decent, something which his predecessors didn’t manage and something which his contemporaries at other premiership strugglers of the 90’s haven’t managed.
I’m not a Moyes ’apologist’ simply because I don’t think he has anything to apologise for. Rather, I’m congratulating him on a good start to his time in charge. And I don’t accept mediocracy but I’m a realist and I would say that from 2001 - 2007 we are the most improved football club in the premier league and we are continuing to improve. Unfortunately, our illustrious past isn’t a god given right to be in the top 4, especially given the 90’s. I don’t think that 5 years is a long enough time to change our fortunes to that extent - not when we were so bad and not on a relatively small budget.
Keep up the good work mate
I certainly agree with you that ’they needed the points more than us’ is a shocking take on the matter and I don’t agree with that at all. I went into the game yesterday realistically hoping to take all 3 points and I was gutted with the outcome.
Were our opinions differ though, and I guess we’ll agree to disagree on this, is that I think without Moyes we wouldn’t have been going into the game yesterday with a realistic hope of getting anything out of it. Without Moyes we’d still be a bottom 5 team struggling against relegation each year. My opinion is that he’s turned this club around from shite to decent, something which his predecessors didn’t manage and something which his contemporaries at other premiership strugglers of the 90’s haven’t managed.
I’m not a Moyes ’apologist’ simply because I don’t think he has anything to apologise for. Rather, I’m congratulating him on a good start to his time in charge. And I don’t accept mediocracy but I’m a realist and I would say that from 2001 - 2007 we are the most improved football club in the premier league and we are continuing to improve. Unfortunately, our illustrious past isn’t a god given right to be in the top 4, especially given the 90’s. I don’t think that 5 years is a long enough time to change our fortunes to that extent - not when we were so bad and not on a relatively small budget.
Keep up the good work mate
Dave Lynch
23 Posted 16/09/2007 at 17:53:14
23 Posted 16/09/2007 at 17:53:14
Mel ripped it off the Humphry movie.
But if we win the next game he will get Laurel, and Hardy handshake off me.
But if we win the next game he will get Laurel, and Hardy handshake off me.
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1 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:45:49