The Mail Bag
Piss-Poor Football Again
Comments (56)
Where do I start after that nonesense today?Please don't tell me we were playing the current Champions either because, without Rooney, Man Utd are very average. The Mancs were there for the taking today [if there is such a thing] and we blew it yet again.
Why change a winning side? Well you tell me. Once again, Phil Neville was absolutely awfull and evey time he got the ball Man Utd looked like scoring. Agent Neville really looked the part for Man U today.
Leon Osman, like I have been saying for years now, is not up to the job at this level. Osman is too small too slow and too ineffective in 4 out of 5 games he plays in to be of any use to Everton. Was he even on the pitch today?
As for David Moyes, when is he going to learn how this game should be played. Once again we are treated to the Moysiahs favourite party trick: Wellyball. It's so embarrasing to watch and must be horrible to try and take out on to the pitch. Surely a manager at a top club in the Premier League should have more strings to his bow than this shite? One way of playing and one way of thinking ? that's Moyes for you.
Arteta is starting to become disinterested; Johnson hasn't scored for nearly half a season and Yakubu is getting less service than James Beattie got... and do you want to know why? Moyes and his tactics ? that's why. With the quality we have now got in the squad surely the time has come to expand our footballing game.
I will give Moyes credit for bringing in some real good players to the club and Baines looks outstanding. The trouble is knowing what to do with the talent you have at your disposal and Moyes clearly struggles to do this. He can't get the balance right or get the team playing consistently from one game to the next. It doesn't matter who we sign and how much we pay for them, if you put them in a hoofball situation they will struggle.
Roll on Europe! ... that will be fun...
Tony Marsh, Posted 15/09/2007 at 16:07:48
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Tony Miller
2 Posted 15/09/2007 at 17:24:06
2 Posted 15/09/2007 at 17:24:06
Tony more balanced than many on here and backed up with opinion. I do not agree with all you have said as I have said in another post I am disappointed that the next step as yet to be made namely a midfielder who can join up our defence and midfield.
Jon Sellick
3 Posted 15/09/2007 at 17:20:54
3 Posted 15/09/2007 at 17:20:54
Crap KO time, crap right back, crap game. Hibbert was awful today and I don't really know why he was in the team. He must have been on fire in training the last couple of weeks or something. Maybe if Gravesen had been fit he'd have played Neville at right back. Anyway, it was a shite match but I had just said (before the goal) that whilst we were no great shakes, they weren't either. If we'd have marked up at that corner and it had finished 0-0 I'd have said a good point and positive that we can now match a team like United without resorting to a five-man midfield, siege mentality type display. In that sense it was a decent, controlled performance. But then again, if me aunty had whiskers...
Nathan Ward
4 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:11:20
4 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:11:20
You really are on ’glass half full’ mode aren’t you??
Today we played a team who are the current Champions of England. Who after the game went top of said league and have this summer spent around $70m on top of their championship winning team.
They are a good team and today for the most didn’t look good against us. Not because they are rubbish but because we made them that way.
And why do you change a winning team? Because the winning part of that last game at Bolton was the team in the last half hour - ie with Osman on for Piennar and we have had injuries to Gravesen & Howard.
However there is no excuse for playing Hibbert at rightback and Neville in midfield
Today we played a team who are the current Champions of England. Who after the game went top of said league and have this summer spent around $70m on top of their championship winning team.
They are a good team and today for the most didn’t look good against us. Not because they are rubbish but because we made them that way.
And why do you change a winning team? Because the winning part of that last game at Bolton was the team in the last half hour - ie with Osman on for Piennar and we have had injuries to Gravesen & Howard.
However there is no excuse for playing Hibbert at rightback and Neville in midfield
Ray Jones
5 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:21:28
5 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:21:28
Once again there is too much weight on Arteta to be our creative force and at this moment he is not at his best and is being closely marked by the opposition this season..We started well but at no stage did Yakubu and AJ recieve any service..Its all well and good saying Yakubu needs to work hard but AJ does that and theres no point in having both strikers doing all the arsing around on the wings chasing lost causes..AJ does that well so we need men in the box today we didnt have any..Hibbert is so weak at defending incoming crosses we just knew that corner would end up in the net..Sadly to say but Everton lack having a midfielder who is really willing to shoot from long distance..Thats where we will miss Fernandes so much sadly to say but its true..
Dave Lynch
6 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:27:06
6 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:27:06
Nathan. "Glass half full".
Are you having a laugh. Blackburn did exactly what the mancs did today and passed the ball quickly and effectively into wide positions through the midfield.
They made us look second rate as well.
We continue to be one-dimensional in our play. Watch both games again, we cannot compete with ball playing teams.
Tell you what as well, the Ukranian teams are no mugs at passing a footy around. Let’s see what happens on Thursday cos i fear the worst.
Are you having a laugh. Blackburn did exactly what the mancs did today and passed the ball quickly and effectively into wide positions through the midfield.
They made us look second rate as well.
We continue to be one-dimensional in our play. Watch both games again, we cannot compete with ball playing teams.
Tell you what as well, the Ukranian teams are no mugs at passing a footy around. Let’s see what happens on Thursday cos i fear the worst.
Ged Matthews
7 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:44:00
7 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:44:00
hibbert was good defensively today but i expect more from a modern day full back ,just look at baines es performance today 10/10 thats the level hibbert needs to get to and it will never happen,whats up with arteta ,3rd game running looked disintrested ,if he is to be played on the right he has got to supply crosses instead of leting hibbert put crosses in which are a constant waste!moyes please get the lads the keep the ball on the ground ,now weve got yakubu there seems to be even more of an excuse to hoof aimless long ball up to the forwards.(anybody think it was a bit fishy that howard never played against utd again(dislocated finger,put a plaster around it!)how long will gentlemans agreement last?
Kieran Kinsella
8 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:49:50
8 Posted 15/09/2007 at 19:49:50
Does anyone on here remember when Walter Smith was Everton boss and Alex Ferguson would send out a second string 11 that would routinely thrash us 5-1? Did anyone else notice today that Baines made Ronaldo look like a thrid-rate wannabee? Did anyone else notice that 3 of our back 4 and our goalkeeper were actually passing the ball out of defence instead of hoofing it down field?
Did anyone else notice that we were more than a match for an far more expensively assembled team of champions?
Tony Marsh talks about "piss poor football" and Rooney being Utd's only above-average player. Well piss-poor football has worked well for teams like Chelsea, Inter Milan and George Graham's Arsenal in the past and I would happily trade for some of their recent trophies. The assertion that Rooney is the only thing that makes United above average is so laughably stupid that even coming from someone as ignorant as Tony it deserves special mention.
Tony what about Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo, etc? What about the fact we had Rooney in an average team and yet we still finished 17th? Plus if $20 million a head gets you average players than how can you possibly criticise Moyes when he is working in the $2 -$5 million market for the most part? Get over it everyone. We did well but they are better and more experienced and they won deservedly.
Paul Carter
9 Posted 15/09/2007 at 20:16:24
9 Posted 15/09/2007 at 20:16:24
Tony, couldn?t agree with you more more mate. Neville and Hibbert are liabilities due to their piss poor retention of a football. This pair of wasters wouldn?t get into an Arsenal under 11?s team. As for Osman, I wouldn?t even use him in a game of subutteo
Stefan Tosev
10 Posted 15/09/2007 at 20:16:22
10 Posted 15/09/2007 at 20:16:22
Come on Tony, give him a rest for a bit, you are on his neck every time he drops points.
I watched the game once more and 2 things strucked me.
1. United didn't outplay us, they didn't have clear-cut chances and we shut up their midfield.
2. The referee made 2 crucial errors, which changed the game. irst the situation when Yakubu outmuscled Evra or Brown, no way it was a foul and with Yakubu on the ball and AJ breaking away it was 2-on-1 situation. The second one was the disallowed Osman goal, again I couldn't see any foul and the German commentators too. Moreover the referee gave every 50-50, even 40-60 decision to United, we are still not so strong to overcome such side without fair refereeing. Many will argue about the tactics and the substitutions but had these 2 decisions gone in our way, the score would have been different.
We lost but I felt that it was an undeserved loss today and that we gave them a really, really tough test, which was decided by a late set-piece strike.
I watched the game once more and 2 things strucked me.
1. United didn't outplay us, they didn't have clear-cut chances and we shut up their midfield.
2. The referee made 2 crucial errors, which changed the game. irst the situation when Yakubu outmuscled Evra or Brown, no way it was a foul and with Yakubu on the ball and AJ breaking away it was 2-on-1 situation. The second one was the disallowed Osman goal, again I couldn't see any foul and the German commentators too. Moreover the referee gave every 50-50, even 40-60 decision to United, we are still not so strong to overcome such side without fair refereeing. Many will argue about the tactics and the substitutions but had these 2 decisions gone in our way, the score would have been different.
We lost but I felt that it was an undeserved loss today and that we gave them a really, really tough test, which was decided by a late set-piece strike.
Steve Mink
11 Posted 15/09/2007 at 21:13:19
11 Posted 15/09/2007 at 21:13:19
Nails hit on head, Tony. Neville to right-back, give Hibbo and Ozzie a rest and keep the effing ball!
Michael Dawes
12 Posted 15/09/2007 at 21:21:11
12 Posted 15/09/2007 at 21:21:11
lets face it osam an hibbert have done is a job over the years but now we are progresin and are a much better side than we have been in recent years,its time to move on and get rid of average players such as hibbert an osam weve improved they havent simple as.im not the biggest neville fan but what he does provide us with is being vocal on the pitch an the tendency never to shy away,ive seen tomany players come an go over the yeras who too easily go missing.i went today,was diisapointed to lose but i believe we matched them both teams just lacked that cutting edge,which will come if a new right back is brought in and mcfadden on the left,the lad must be buzzin after the week hes had,why not play him today?
Connor Rohrer
13 Posted 15/09/2007 at 21:30:02
13 Posted 15/09/2007 at 21:30:02
We didnt even play that bad. Actually we matched them in terms of performance and If you dont believe me watch the game again. I am not a fan of Hibbert but he done a good job. Arteta was the worst player we had yet he doesnt get moaned at because he is "special".
Yakubu and Johnson where always a threat against two class centre halves and if you dont believe me ask Alex Ferguson because he seemed to think so as did I. We didnt also play "WELLBALL" as Tony Marsh seems to think. Tony I know you say you are based In Liverpool but do you actually go the match? Stop trying to live up to this negative reputation because its fucking boring.
Dutch you are the worst contributer on this site. Johnson played well and his goals will come. He is not a natural goalscorer as I have said in the past but he will get a few. Dutch, Yakubu also played well. He was a handfull and some of his footwork was brilliant.
As I said lads go the watch before you start talking your shit. Fucking Jokers.
Yakubu and Johnson where always a threat against two class centre halves and if you dont believe me ask Alex Ferguson because he seemed to think so as did I. We didnt also play "WELLBALL" as Tony Marsh seems to think. Tony I know you say you are based In Liverpool but do you actually go the match? Stop trying to live up to this negative reputation because its fucking boring.
Dutch you are the worst contributer on this site. Johnson played well and his goals will come. He is not a natural goalscorer as I have said in the past but he will get a few. Dutch, Yakubu also played well. He was a handfull and some of his footwork was brilliant.
As I said lads go the watch before you start talking your shit. Fucking Jokers.
MIke Kay
14 Posted 15/09/2007 at 21:36:15
14 Posted 15/09/2007 at 21:36:15
Tony, what a plank you are - Rooney the only above average player - I take it your 7 years old ? We matched United and a draw was a fair result but there you go. I agree Hibbert will not take us forward and Ozzie cannot compete with the top 4 teams. Jags was good in the tackle and in the air but looked edgy on the ball, perhaps a little big match nerves.
Micky
15 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:03:06
15 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:03:06
Phil Neville, club captain fuckin joke the fella aint worth a place in the starting eleven. I cant remember anyone give a ball away so much in me life, whats with his little dinks all the time?...Time to give Joseph the armband. One immense centre half.
Stig Meacham
16 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:14:45
16 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:14:45
Another loss, another Tony Marsh article. Excuse me while I go puke in my mouth.
I stopped reading after the United is average without Rooney(?!!) Oh, god.
I stopped reading after the United is average without Rooney(?!!) Oh, god.
jm
17 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:41:25
17 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:41:25
As usual Tony, i stop after your first ridiculous statement. 2nd sentence this time....
idiot.
idiot.
Steve Guy
18 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:32:01
18 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:32:01
Without Rooney, Utd. are average ?! I wet myself laughing at that asinine observation !
I agree with those who say Neville is a full back not a midfielder, but to slur a consummate professional by implying he was an "agent" for Utd. is a disgraceful and uncalled for comment.
Slagging off Moyes. FFS. You just can’t wait can you ? Talk to supporters of other teams and they would grab our hands off to get him as manager. If you can’t see that he is trying to put out attacking teams now you are blinded by your own prejudice against the man. If Gravesen had been fit, Neville would have played at full back and the one numpty we do have, namely Hibbert would have been lucky to make the subs bench.
Arteta disinterested ? Yak lacking service ? Quite frankly I wonder what game you watched. From my seat there was nothing to choose between the teams and we were undone by poor defending from a set piece. Lucky they had the twelth man and Scholes to clear off the line or we might have beaten them and you would have had to put off whinging for another week.
Try focussing on a few positives....Baines performance for one and the fact that we stood toe to toe with the favourites to retain the premiership with an excellent team effort.
I agree with those who say Neville is a full back not a midfielder, but to slur a consummate professional by implying he was an "agent" for Utd. is a disgraceful and uncalled for comment.
Slagging off Moyes. FFS. You just can’t wait can you ? Talk to supporters of other teams and they would grab our hands off to get him as manager. If you can’t see that he is trying to put out attacking teams now you are blinded by your own prejudice against the man. If Gravesen had been fit, Neville would have played at full back and the one numpty we do have, namely Hibbert would have been lucky to make the subs bench.
Arteta disinterested ? Yak lacking service ? Quite frankly I wonder what game you watched. From my seat there was nothing to choose between the teams and we were undone by poor defending from a set piece. Lucky they had the twelth man and Scholes to clear off the line or we might have beaten them and you would have had to put off whinging for another week.
Try focussing on a few positives....Baines performance for one and the fact that we stood toe to toe with the favourites to retain the premiership with an excellent team effort.
tony gee
19 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:43:34
19 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:43:34
Micky .... you oaf!
that immense center half you were on about was away with the fairies when Vidic stole in to steal all 3 points... the fella has a dumb switch which seems to be pressed at least once during a match.
his man, his area, his cock up... no way back.
on another issue, hibbert is my rectum, moyes is my scrotum. what david moyes doesn’t know about football tactics could fill a warehouse!
that immense center half you were on about was away with the fairies when Vidic stole in to steal all 3 points... the fella has a dumb switch which seems to be pressed at least once during a match.
his man, his area, his cock up... no way back.
on another issue, hibbert is my rectum, moyes is my scrotum. what david moyes doesn’t know about football tactics could fill a warehouse!
Steve Lyth
20 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:46:52
20 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:46:52
Steve, I am normally in league with your comments but to say we just cant wait ? Most of the lads on here with a down on Moyes management capabilities are still here and saying the same old thing Ha. Moyes would be grabbed by who again ? Prey tell, man U, arse, chelski,rs,barcodes,citeh, c,mon who ? Spurs ?
tony gee
21 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:54:29
21 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:54:29
the fella is a championship manager at best...
his next job will probably be at Newcastle in a couple of years time, which proves my point!!
And just to point out, if you check my old postings, you will see, I have never and will never like this fella as the manager of my club..
He may be the best since HK, but the way i see it, its like jumping over a pile of dog shit, and landing in cat shit... its still shit!
his next job will probably be at Newcastle in a couple of years time, which proves my point!!
And just to point out, if you check my old postings, you will see, I have never and will never like this fella as the manager of my club..
He may be the best since HK, but the way i see it, its like jumping over a pile of dog shit, and landing in cat shit... its still shit!
james bicknell
22 Posted 15/09/2007 at 23:28:41
22 Posted 15/09/2007 at 23:28:41
hes right about one thing, as long as moyes is managing we will always play hoofball. we may get results but the football will always be horrendous to watch. moyes simply doesnt know how to get a team to play it on the ground. moyes is a defender by trade and you can see this in the way he gets his teams to play.
oh well
oh well
Liam Young
23 Posted 15/09/2007 at 23:30:40
23 Posted 15/09/2007 at 23:30:40
I was in the main stand watching today, and i think everton played some good football at times, our worst enemy today was lack of belief, with more of that we could have won the game, but we didnt. I had one guy behind me slagging off arteta saying he is useless, what the hell is that all about????. The referee was terrible and scholes should have been sent off, man united are the referees favourites. But hey, lets shake this off, and i cant wait to be at the metallist game on thursday, we need to create a great intimidating atmosphere for this game, so less moaning and more supporting!!. Forget the scummy mancs. We just need more belief.
si ord
24 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:56:59
24 Posted 15/09/2007 at 22:56:59
i have read some shite written on here not least about mcfadden last week, and he showed what an amazing talent he is with his goal against france in midweek. I think some of you have seen too much drivel over the last 10 years to appreciate real skill. undoubtedly he is frustrating as many creative players,but with 5 mins at the end he looked more likely to score than yakubu did in 80 minutes.
Are you all fuckin goldfish with 3 second memories. walter smith used to play 6 defenders and 1 striker. This side is a million miles from the dirge we have had to sit through in the last decade, and they’re improving every year.
Today we had arguably a legitimate osman strike ruled out and a johnson effort cleared off the line. Aside of mcfaddens fine strike and ferdinands excellent last ditch block from anichebe’s follow up.
Apart from the goal and scholes surprising hash of a volley when put clean through I can’t remember manure creating a clear cut chance.
Without our first choice keeper, two of best strikers out in vaughan and cahill and probably needing to rest carsley ahead of uefa on thursday, we have competed with united for most of the match.
How many times have we done that since the start of the premiership?
tevez, giggs, scholes, ronaldo, carrick, evra, silvestre, ferdinand,vidic,brown, van der sar
how is that an average team?
Are you all fuckin goldfish with 3 second memories. walter smith used to play 6 defenders and 1 striker. This side is a million miles from the dirge we have had to sit through in the last decade, and they’re improving every year.
Today we had arguably a legitimate osman strike ruled out and a johnson effort cleared off the line. Aside of mcfaddens fine strike and ferdinands excellent last ditch block from anichebe’s follow up.
Apart from the goal and scholes surprising hash of a volley when put clean through I can’t remember manure creating a clear cut chance.
Without our first choice keeper, two of best strikers out in vaughan and cahill and probably needing to rest carsley ahead of uefa on thursday, we have competed with united for most of the match.
How many times have we done that since the start of the premiership?
tevez, giggs, scholes, ronaldo, carrick, evra, silvestre, ferdinand,vidic,brown, van der sar
how is that an average team?
Steve Carter
25 Posted 16/09/2007 at 00:47:37
25 Posted 16/09/2007 at 00:47:37
I’m with you Si. Realistically, how many of ours would find their way into the Manure first team? Some of these posts are very harsh - particularly on Tony Hibbert. Hibbo may not be the classist ball distributor, but he defends tenaciously and he nullified their left flank. And he wasn’t to blame for Vidic getting his head onto it.
Dave Thatcher
26 Posted 16/09/2007 at 10:34:11
26 Posted 16/09/2007 at 10:34:11
please tell me you are joking about moyes?
what the fuck do you people expect?
do people not remember the times when people would rather play for any other club than us?
5 years ago, before moyes there is no way baines would want to play for us or yakubu
its a sign of the times, we need patience
you put this current team against any prem team and we can potentially win
that hasn?t happened before (in the prem)
we can?t beat everybody and to be honest our season doesn?t hinge on beating the likes of man utd
its getting points against teams like spurs, pompey, blackburn, newcastle
this year should be seen as a consolidatory year, to firm up 5-6th
THEN we can buy a 20mil superstar midfielder and change the team to a top four team
its not that we can?t afford it now, its that the likes of riquelme etc just don?t find us an interesting proposition.
if we build up 5th this year, and have a uefa run then its a very very good season.
what the fuck do you people expect?
do people not remember the times when people would rather play for any other club than us?
5 years ago, before moyes there is no way baines would want to play for us or yakubu
its a sign of the times, we need patience
you put this current team against any prem team and we can potentially win
that hasn?t happened before (in the prem)
we can?t beat everybody and to be honest our season doesn?t hinge on beating the likes of man utd
its getting points against teams like spurs, pompey, blackburn, newcastle
this year should be seen as a consolidatory year, to firm up 5-6th
THEN we can buy a 20mil superstar midfielder and change the team to a top four team
its not that we can?t afford it now, its that the likes of riquelme etc just don?t find us an interesting proposition.
if we build up 5th this year, and have a uefa run then its a very very good season.
Ian Roberts
27 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:00:37
27 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:00:37
I’ve just re-read Tony Marsh’s article.
"Please don’t tell me we were playing the current Champions either because, without Rooney, Man Utd are very average."
Laughable, unbelievable, yet sums it all up.
Ronaldo...Scholes...Giggs...Tevez...Vidic!!
Tony Marsh, you haven’t a clue.
"Please don’t tell me we were playing the current Champions either because, without Rooney, Man Utd are very average."
Laughable, unbelievable, yet sums it all up.
Ronaldo...Scholes...Giggs...Tevez...Vidic!!
Tony Marsh, you haven’t a clue.
Mark Perry
28 Posted 16/09/2007 at 10:42:52
28 Posted 16/09/2007 at 10:42:52
Steve Lyth, Tony Marsh, I have never come across 2 men in human history who are more in need of getting layed. You are both so agressive, anyone who disagrees with you is told to "Fuck off". How dare you, Ive supported Everton for 33 years now, and Im a supporter of Moyes, if you dont like that then fuck you, I?m still going to support the club I love.
For crying out loud we were playing Man U not Chester. Yes we played poorly but so did they. Yes we lacked creativity, but we didnt hoof the ball on every occasion. At the start of both halfs we played quite well. I think we panicked, I think we tried to ruish the game and as a result passes went astray, we gave away posession to easily.
The team we have, especialy YAK and AJ partnership need time to bed in. They were too far appart yesterday, as AJ went looking for space and Yak didnt have the relationship with AJ to know where he would be.
Jags is a good midfielder, good at holding the midfield and finding a simple pass, what we lack that neither Nev or Cars can do is be a focal point in midfield who can find a creative pass, or pose a threat to the opposition. Gravo can, so can tiny Tim, altho in different ways.
The defence is solid, I prefer Nev at right back to Hibbert as he can pose a better threat going forward and is a better passer. Jags in midfield with Grav or Tiny, with Arteta on the right. What we lack is a left sided midfielder who can do what Arteta can. Pinnar looks to light but I think we need to be fair and give him 5 or 10 games to bed in. It would be intersesting to see Macfadden playing on the left, but I think he would drift out of the game too much - maybe worth a try tho until Christmas when we can go for someone who can fill that role.
For the Doomsayers I say lighten up give the team a chance to settle. To Marsh, Lyth and the rest of their ilk I say get a life!
For crying out loud we were playing Man U not Chester. Yes we played poorly but so did they. Yes we lacked creativity, but we didnt hoof the ball on every occasion. At the start of both halfs we played quite well. I think we panicked, I think we tried to ruish the game and as a result passes went astray, we gave away posession to easily.
The team we have, especialy YAK and AJ partnership need time to bed in. They were too far appart yesterday, as AJ went looking for space and Yak didnt have the relationship with AJ to know where he would be.
Jags is a good midfielder, good at holding the midfield and finding a simple pass, what we lack that neither Nev or Cars can do is be a focal point in midfield who can find a creative pass, or pose a threat to the opposition. Gravo can, so can tiny Tim, altho in different ways.
The defence is solid, I prefer Nev at right back to Hibbert as he can pose a better threat going forward and is a better passer. Jags in midfield with Grav or Tiny, with Arteta on the right. What we lack is a left sided midfielder who can do what Arteta can. Pinnar looks to light but I think we need to be fair and give him 5 or 10 games to bed in. It would be intersesting to see Macfadden playing on the left, but I think he would drift out of the game too much - maybe worth a try tho until Christmas when we can go for someone who can fill that role.
For the Doomsayers I say lighten up give the team a chance to settle. To Marsh, Lyth and the rest of their ilk I say get a life!
Markus Steinbauer
29 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:18:30
29 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:18:30
Saving themselves for the Euro game? Am i supposed to laugh now? They are playing some team i cant even remember exactly and were playing ManU, such a rubbish club surely not worth the effort, and who needs points in the league anyway
michael mckeon
30 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:21:58
30 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:21:58
i left the match worried about yakubu’s lack of effort, moyes will need to get hold of him and instill the ethics required of an everton centre forward. wiley is not a referee, he showed complete cowardness to make correct decisions, i was distracted from the match by his decision making
Steve Lyth
31 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:31:37
31 Posted 16/09/2007 at 11:31:37
Mark P I would like to apologise for the agggressive stance I give off in my posting, sorry, I get carried away and maybe should be.
I am getting laid tho
I am getting laid tho
Mark Perry
32 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:01:16
32 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:01:16
Steve Lyth, appology accepted, glad to see your getting some. There are so many different views here which is great. I agree with some not with others, but we are all Evertonians and thats the main thing.
Neil McKinney
33 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:10:22
33 Posted 16/09/2007 at 12:10:22
Tony’s usual well balanced critique.
If Man Utd are average without Rooney...
Sorry, just fell off my chair laughing at that one!
If Man Utd are average without Rooney, then what are we without Arteta? Please don’t answer that question Tony as I feel your response would finally lay to rest any hope or optimism left amongst Evertonians!
As much as we may have improved, most of their players would still walk into our side.
I agree with the Hibbert comments and with the criticism of Neville (footballing ability only) but get a f***ing grip!!
Disappointing not desperate!
If Man Utd are average without Rooney...
Sorry, just fell off my chair laughing at that one!
If Man Utd are average without Rooney, then what are we without Arteta? Please don’t answer that question Tony as I feel your response would finally lay to rest any hope or optimism left amongst Evertonians!
As much as we may have improved, most of their players would still walk into our side.
I agree with the Hibbert comments and with the criticism of Neville (footballing ability only) but get a f***ing grip!!
Disappointing not desperate!
Ged Dwyer
34 Posted 16/09/2007 at 14:43:58
34 Posted 16/09/2007 at 14:43:58
Spot on Tony. Our midfield is dreadful, due to personnel and tactics. Neville is a disgrace, Osman ineffective and Arteta wasted while playing out wide against good opposition. Our main hope is our ’loan’ player Graveson. That’s how strong our squad is. Moyes keeps making the same old mistakes and people keep making the same old excuses for him. The frustration continues.
Mike Wylie
35 Posted 16/09/2007 at 14:44:07
35 Posted 16/09/2007 at 14:44:07
Some facts:
1. We are not he best team in the league and are unlikely to be in the near future.
2. Man Utd are the reigning champions and to say we could out pass them with playmakers is nonesense.
3. We don?t have a playmaker anyway.
4. Moyes has consistently been the best of the rest in Managerial terms which I?m affraid to say is the best we can hope for.
5. If we had got a point which was quite likely then that would have been another step forward.
1. We are not he best team in the league and are unlikely to be in the near future.
2. Man Utd are the reigning champions and to say we could out pass them with playmakers is nonesense.
3. We don?t have a playmaker anyway.
4. Moyes has consistently been the best of the rest in Managerial terms which I?m affraid to say is the best we can hope for.
5. If we had got a point which was quite likely then that would have been another step forward.
Andy McKenzie
36 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:10:49
36 Posted 16/09/2007 at 16:10:49
while we never played the best of football we matched united for effort and commitment which against most teams we would of scraped a draw, we were up against the champions and when we lose concentration for a couple of seconds we got punished, that was the difference, plain and simple, we?d all love it if we were playing outstanding football but sometimes you have to respect the opposition your playing, going gung-ho against two certain teams (man u, arsenal) will only end in defeat.
Thomas Corker
37 Posted 16/09/2007 at 17:02:41
37 Posted 16/09/2007 at 17:02:41
I think the comments about saving themselves for Europe are fair enough even if I disagree. Look at it this way, we have two chances at getting to the group stages compared to another 30-odd League matches. And if they were saving themselves and matched United then I’m pleased.
We weren’t at our best yesterday and we didn’t get away with it. A performance that more or less matched United isn’t bad in my book. Yes, a draw would’ve been a good result but I certainly didn’t expect a win. We lost the match and I’m sure we’ll put in better performances and pick up more points in future. At the end of day, we were playing Manchester United not Chester City as someone else said.
Also, anti-Moyes, any suggestions as to who you’d like to replace him? Merely curious.
We weren’t at our best yesterday and we didn’t get away with it. A performance that more or less matched United isn’t bad in my book. Yes, a draw would’ve been a good result but I certainly didn’t expect a win. We lost the match and I’m sure we’ll put in better performances and pick up more points in future. At the end of day, we were playing Manchester United not Chester City as someone else said.
Also, anti-Moyes, any suggestions as to who you’d like to replace him? Merely curious.
Brian Garside
38 Posted 16/09/2007 at 18:36:39
38 Posted 16/09/2007 at 18:36:39
Neville should never wear our blue shirt again in any position. Passed continually to Utd, just as last time, concedes many free-kicks, cannot control the ball, runs around without any apparent purpose. Jagielka's passing was better but he does not have the speed or experience to domminate. Arteta looks dissinterested or fedup. AJ + Yak need some service in order to produce what we know they are cappable of. Cahill is not the answer ? he is a short-term buy who has surpassed expectations. I hope I am wrong on this one. Thursday... a tuff one.
Marc Roberts
39 Posted 16/09/2007 at 19:46:32
39 Posted 16/09/2007 at 19:46:32
Brian I agree as always about Neville, he should be told to fuck right off. I posted last week that he would start in midfield but no one agreed, after all everyone can see how shite he is except Moyes who constantly tries to wedge him into his favourite position. The only answer is that it is written in his contract that he has to play when fit, you dont have to be made of eyes to see how many times he passed the ball straight to the mank twats or gave away needless freekicks. Davy if your reading this - Get Rid Please!
Shaun Cook
40 Posted 16/09/2007 at 19:49:58
40 Posted 16/09/2007 at 19:49:58
In my opinion we can play good football but to be fair Pip and Jags in the engine room is never going to provide us with free flowing football. What moysie is to blame for is not signing the playmaker we all know we need-he wasted too much time chasing a slow Jag when he should have secured the classy Fernandes or a player of the like. Baines has however been a suprise to me and typifies the type of football we so desire. Moysie MUST sign one or ideally 2 creative players in Jan then I believe we can compete. Pip then can go to right back either on the pitch or in the changing room !
Andy Burke
41 Posted 16/09/2007 at 20:41:30
41 Posted 16/09/2007 at 20:41:30
Tony. Come on please.
I think you were either too impassioned about the result when you wrote above, or you don’t really know much about football. Now i don’t really beleive the latter so I think maybe you should wait until the red mist has cleared before writing.
’without Rooney, Man Utd are very average’ !!!!!!??????? Please.
I think you were either too impassioned about the result when you wrote above, or you don’t really know much about football. Now i don’t really beleive the latter so I think maybe you should wait until the red mist has cleared before writing.
’without Rooney, Man Utd are very average’ !!!!!!??????? Please.
Brian Garside
42 Posted 16/09/2007 at 21:07:00
42 Posted 16/09/2007 at 21:07:00
Please let the geordies hae Nevill!!! Even for free!!!But will accept £3/4m if they want.Maybe moyes can find someone who can follow his "tacticle instructions".Rather Hibbo than Nev!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John Andrews
43 Posted 16/09/2007 at 23:30:48
43 Posted 16/09/2007 at 23:30:48
First and foremost I cannot agree with all of the Neville bashing. The bloke is a limited footballer but we all knew that when he was signed. Ferguson used to use him when he wanted somebody marked out of the game and, more often than not, it worked.
The other issue is that I believe we have been sussed out. Teams are now lining up to mark/kick Arteta out of the game. They know if Arteta doesn’t play then neither do we. Perhaps the reason he may look disinterested is because we do not have anybody else in the midfield that can take some of the attention away from him.
We line up, usually, with two defensive midfielders leaving just Arteta and another to try and create something. This cannot possibly work. We needed a creative midfielder and we did not get one. End of.......
The other issue is that I believe we have been sussed out. Teams are now lining up to mark/kick Arteta out of the game. They know if Arteta doesn’t play then neither do we. Perhaps the reason he may look disinterested is because we do not have anybody else in the midfield that can take some of the attention away from him.
We line up, usually, with two defensive midfielders leaving just Arteta and another to try and create something. This cannot possibly work. We needed a creative midfielder and we did not get one. End of.......
Michael Tracey
44 Posted 16/09/2007 at 23:56:28
44 Posted 16/09/2007 at 23:56:28
Sorry watched game today, we gave the ball away too much. Hibbert really needs to lift his game. He constantly gives the ball away! Phil Neville had an absolute shocker. I think 90% of the time he gave the ball straight to a Man Utd player.
I would of started with Pineear (even Mcfadden) on left and had Jaglieka And Arteta in the middle and Osman on the other wing.
Defence would of been Neville (RB), Yobo and Lescott middle and Baines (LB). Obviously AJ and the Yak up front.
I think that Hibbert really needs to learn how to pass. Also Marking for the header was just Piss poor. Not blaming Hibbert for that though.
One more thing has Van Der Saar been taking Diving lessons of Ronaldo?
I would of started with Pineear (even Mcfadden) on left and had Jaglieka And Arteta in the middle and Osman on the other wing.
Defence would of been Neville (RB), Yobo and Lescott middle and Baines (LB). Obviously AJ and the Yak up front.
I think that Hibbert really needs to learn how to pass. Also Marking for the header was just Piss poor. Not blaming Hibbert for that though.
One more thing has Van Der Saar been taking Diving lessons of Ronaldo?
Tom Griffiths
45 Posted 17/09/2007 at 08:02:19
45 Posted 17/09/2007 at 08:02:19
Good article. I?ve thought for a long time that Hibbert is a HUGE liability. Being a local/youth team product I?d like to see him stay, but NOT play in these sorts of games ? he can fill in for 8-10 league games a year (eg. Home vs Derby) preferably at Goodison. I remember the 3-4 loss to Man Utd a few seasons back when we came from 0-3 down to 3-3 then he let us down again by losing a header he should have won. He was guilty as sin for the goal on the weekend ? his job from that situation was to stop EXACTLY that and only that. Criminal.
Agree about Phil Neville too ? he is OK as a squad player, but not good enough in so many situations and for all the talk about his ?professionalism? lacks the balls for these big games. How many times has he made monumental cock-ups in his career in big games? Liverpool derby o.g.? Man Utd o.g.? England pen (2000). I wouldn?t be too worried if he?d gone to Newcastle for the 5mil that was being bandied about.
Arteta?s form is becoming a worry ? his delivery from deadballs after the first 2 games has been awful. Very unusual. Hopefully with Graveson and Cahill back, he should play with less weight on his shoulders.
I don?t necessarily want to see any of the current squad go (apart from Neville), it IS clear that some (Osman, Hibbert, Neville) are not up to scratch for these games (or European games) and can only play support roles. It was disappointing to see Pienaar not start ? he hasn?t played particularly well for us so far, but I see a great player in there and I don?t think he?s far away from some classy performances.
This was the first time in my life that an Everton game dragged on. I remember looking at my watch and there was still 25 minutes to go. Boring, boring stuff from both sides ? instantly forgettable. Piss-poor is being kind.
Agree about Phil Neville too ? he is OK as a squad player, but not good enough in so many situations and for all the talk about his ?professionalism? lacks the balls for these big games. How many times has he made monumental cock-ups in his career in big games? Liverpool derby o.g.? Man Utd o.g.? England pen (2000). I wouldn?t be too worried if he?d gone to Newcastle for the 5mil that was being bandied about.
Arteta?s form is becoming a worry ? his delivery from deadballs after the first 2 games has been awful. Very unusual. Hopefully with Graveson and Cahill back, he should play with less weight on his shoulders.
I don?t necessarily want to see any of the current squad go (apart from Neville), it IS clear that some (Osman, Hibbert, Neville) are not up to scratch for these games (or European games) and can only play support roles. It was disappointing to see Pienaar not start ? he hasn?t played particularly well for us so far, but I see a great player in there and I don?t think he?s far away from some classy performances.
This was the first time in my life that an Everton game dragged on. I remember looking at my watch and there was still 25 minutes to go. Boring, boring stuff from both sides ? instantly forgettable. Piss-poor is being kind.
Nelly
46 Posted 17/09/2007 at 10:00:12
46 Posted 17/09/2007 at 10:00:12
All the top teams KEEP the ball, pass to feet & move the ball quickly. All we do is constantly hoof the ball up field with no real purpose and/or aim and HOPE someone will get on the end of a flick on. We give the ball away when under no pressure more than ANY team I have seen for years, the chief culprits being Neville & Hibbert. On the subject of Hibbert can anybody plse explain how this lad ever got anywhere near a professional contract. I know he can tackle but that’s ALL he can do. We have no pace or width in midfield and hence we never attack or break quickly and/or get behind teams to cause them problems. Which,for me, is the main reason our ’attempts at goal’ are so sparse. The service provided to the front men is absolutely abysmal and for the last three games ARTETA has look extremely disinterested. Dont think Gravesen will change things because he gives the ball away just as much as Neville. People are now beginning to turn on Johnson but the main reason he doesn’t score anymore is because he’s never in the box. If you spent all your time chasing aimless balls into the channels you wouldn’t score many goals either, so please give the lad a break.
The funny thing is that the Moyes is now on the radio bemoaning the lack of depth & quality in the squad...Well whose fault is that Davie!!
Utd were as poor as I’ve seen them in the last 15yrs on Sat but we still couldn’t beat them. Once again schoolboy defending cost us a stupid goal same as happened at Spurs & Reading.
Moyes has now got to show some ruthlessness and rid us of the passengers that are Hibbert & Osman and admit that Neville is a FULL BACK, he will never be a central midfield player in a million years.We can all see it why can’t he. Osman can be decent against the so called lesser sides but NEVER gets a kick against the better ones...Go on name me the last time he had a good game against either Man U,Chelsea, Arsenal or The Shite. Until we get a COMMANDING central midfield player who does NOT give the ball away and can use it intelligently we will never progress to ’the next level’ and actually win a trophy.
Moyesie here’s a thought...instead of aimlessly punting the ball up front to no-one in particular try to get the team to KEEP the ball by passing to feet and moving for one another...you never know it just might work....It did for Howard Kendall !!
The funny thing is that the Moyes is now on the radio bemoaning the lack of depth & quality in the squad...Well whose fault is that Davie!!
Utd were as poor as I’ve seen them in the last 15yrs on Sat but we still couldn’t beat them. Once again schoolboy defending cost us a stupid goal same as happened at Spurs & Reading.
Moyes has now got to show some ruthlessness and rid us of the passengers that are Hibbert & Osman and admit that Neville is a FULL BACK, he will never be a central midfield player in a million years.We can all see it why can’t he. Osman can be decent against the so called lesser sides but NEVER gets a kick against the better ones...Go on name me the last time he had a good game against either Man U,Chelsea, Arsenal or The Shite. Until we get a COMMANDING central midfield player who does NOT give the ball away and can use it intelligently we will never progress to ’the next level’ and actually win a trophy.
Moyesie here’s a thought...instead of aimlessly punting the ball up front to no-one in particular try to get the team to KEEP the ball by passing to feet and moving for one another...you never know it just might work....It did for Howard Kendall !!
Chris Lawlor
47 Posted 17/09/2007 at 11:17:04
47 Posted 17/09/2007 at 11:17:04
Tony, just a wondering, How come we rarely get the pleasure of your musings when Everton win or put in a good shift. Are you simply programmed to volley abuse when the team lose? I dont mind anyone having their say, but you are conspicious by your absence when the Blues perform. Says it all really Mr Marsh.
Brett Barnes
48 Posted 17/09/2007 at 11:44:29
48 Posted 17/09/2007 at 11:44:29
Nevermind Osman, did anyone else notice how embarrasingly inept Jagielka was on Saturday?? I don;t think one of his passes found an Everton player. Bring back Carsley and for Gods sake play Neville at right-back.
Peter Roberts
49 Posted 17/09/2007 at 12:02:03
49 Posted 17/09/2007 at 12:02:03
Yet another load of defeatist negative diatribe from Tony Marsh.
When will you learn to look on the bright side of life, lad? I watched the game with a Manc mate and whilst we agreed that 0-1 was probably a fair result, Everton were a tad unlucky to come away with nowt. Considering how badly we’ve played against United in the past 12 years, that’s not a bad achievement. FWIW I thought Hibbert should have attacked the corner better and Yobo shouldn’t have lost Vidic, but it was still a very well-worked set piece from the reigning champions. These kind of games are not the ones we’re expected to win and should, we should be focusing more on not dropping points against the lower teams and making sure, for the moment, we’re the best of the rest. So leave your negative BS back at home on Thursday, if you come to the game, and support our Blue boys. Please. Just for us.
When will you learn to look on the bright side of life, lad? I watched the game with a Manc mate and whilst we agreed that 0-1 was probably a fair result, Everton were a tad unlucky to come away with nowt. Considering how badly we’ve played against United in the past 12 years, that’s not a bad achievement. FWIW I thought Hibbert should have attacked the corner better and Yobo shouldn’t have lost Vidic, but it was still a very well-worked set piece from the reigning champions. These kind of games are not the ones we’re expected to win and should, we should be focusing more on not dropping points against the lower teams and making sure, for the moment, we’re the best of the rest. So leave your negative BS back at home on Thursday, if you come to the game, and support our Blue boys. Please. Just for us.
Chris Fennell
50 Posted 17/09/2007 at 12:39:36
50 Posted 17/09/2007 at 12:39:36
There’s a pretty familiar feeling with most Evertonians that Tony Hibbert is Championship level at best. Its a shame because he had a lot of potential when he came through with Rooney. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have a football brain and is the most predictable player I have ever seen at Goodison. The failure to sign a quality playmaker to help out Arteta will prove costly. Everyone was crying out for the signing, but it never came. questions have to be asked about not having a Plan B for the Fernandes deal considering the red tape involved.
Overall, Moyes should have our support. We are disappointed not to be in the top 4 at least and lost narrowly to the Champions. We’ll have to get used to lesser teams coming to Goodison and defending, something which hasn’t always been the case. We could really struggle at home this season. We have improved significantly in the last 5 years but Mr. Moyes, can we please have a decent Cup run?
Overall, Moyes should have our support. We are disappointed not to be in the top 4 at least and lost narrowly to the Champions. We’ll have to get used to lesser teams coming to Goodison and defending, something which hasn’t always been the case. We could really struggle at home this season. We have improved significantly in the last 5 years but Mr. Moyes, can we please have a decent Cup run?
Greg Armstrong
51 Posted 17/09/2007 at 13:17:42
51 Posted 17/09/2007 at 13:17:42
Tony you don’t half talk rubbish at times. Always half empty never half full. You seem to have been to a different game to me! Whilst no one can be happy at the result or the performance at times you have to look at the positives or what is the point of going every week. For instance we got caught once with a set piece but other than that they produced very little. We had the best player on our side - Baines - who was outstanding he had Ronaldo in his pocket all afternoon and he is supposed to be the best in the premiership. Time you started giving credit where credit is due or go and support that shower from over the Park.
Stephen Stott
52 Posted 17/09/2007 at 15:17:37
52 Posted 17/09/2007 at 15:17:37
I’m disappointed that Toffeeweb continue to publish ’comments’ from this particular person. His views are beneath contempt. To question Phil Neville’s integrity is disgraceful & as I’ve said should not be published. By inference you are in fact condoning them. Sorry Toffeeweb you should be ashamed of yourselves. As for you Tony Marsh I hope Phil Neville sues you for defamation of character - you are an Everton fan are you then start behaving like one.
Gary Kraskacz
53 Posted 17/09/2007 at 15:45:31
53 Posted 17/09/2007 at 15:45:31
I am sick of hearing this rubbish from guys that are negative and i agree with many others on here in suggesting that this should not be published.
Tony, we don?t need people like you supporting Everton. If you were a manager of people, your people would be low on self esteem, confidence and feeling at the bottom of life. You sap everything good about Everton and manipulate it into an amusing story about how bad Everton are.
We have just played the champions of possibly the hardest league in the world, and there are clear signs of progress. Years ago, this would have been a welcome restbite for Manchester Utd. A comfortable win in which Sir Alex could have played his reserves and relax with a glass of wine knowing that they will come out with a clean sheet and a couple of goals. Did that happen? No it didn?t.
We gained praise from all sections of the media, and although it wasn?t a great performance, nor game, it should still allow for confidence to run through the ranks, knowing that we are finally competing with the best.
No more negativity. No more nagging and moaning. Its time to fully back the boys each and every minute they are on the pitch. You back the players and the manager no matter what happens.
The only facts that need to be mentioned are Neville, Hibbert and Osman aren?t good enough to be able to compete against United. But at least they put their bodies on the line for the club and that more than makes up for lack of ability.
Tony, we don?t need people like you supporting Everton. If you were a manager of people, your people would be low on self esteem, confidence and feeling at the bottom of life. You sap everything good about Everton and manipulate it into an amusing story about how bad Everton are.
We have just played the champions of possibly the hardest league in the world, and there are clear signs of progress. Years ago, this would have been a welcome restbite for Manchester Utd. A comfortable win in which Sir Alex could have played his reserves and relax with a glass of wine knowing that they will come out with a clean sheet and a couple of goals. Did that happen? No it didn?t.
We gained praise from all sections of the media, and although it wasn?t a great performance, nor game, it should still allow for confidence to run through the ranks, knowing that we are finally competing with the best.
No more negativity. No more nagging and moaning. Its time to fully back the boys each and every minute they are on the pitch. You back the players and the manager no matter what happens.
The only facts that need to be mentioned are Neville, Hibbert and Osman aren?t good enough to be able to compete against United. But at least they put their bodies on the line for the club and that more than makes up for lack of ability.
David Siggers
54 Posted 17/09/2007 at 16:10:53
54 Posted 17/09/2007 at 16:10:53
So, one by one, each player is rubbished... Come on even Alan Hansen said we matched Man Utd and deserved a least a point.
Andy Ellams
55 Posted 17/09/2007 at 16:22:30
55 Posted 17/09/2007 at 16:22:30
Right we need something positive on here so here goes. Is Leighton Baines the best thing since sliced bread or what.
Andy Ellams
56 Posted 17/09/2007 at 16:22:30
56 Posted 17/09/2007 at 16:22:30
Right we need something positive on here so here goes. Is Leighton Baines the best thing since sliced bread or what.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 15/09/2007 at 17:23:18
Yakubu is so lazy you practically have to lay the goal on for him.
I’m not completely blaming Moyes for this piss-poor performance, I think the players let us down badly.
Maybe they were saving themselves for the Euro game in 5 days.