The Mail Bag
Moyes v Royle
Comments (41)
I agree with most of the posters on here that Tony Hibbert could easily be replaced by a medieval rock-launching catapult when it comes to his passing but he is not the first talentless prematurely balding hard worker to wear and Everton shirt. How can we forget crowd favourite Joe Parkinson? I remember watching the team warm up at Selhurst Park one time and felt humiliated for Joe that he failed to control the ball one single time during a kick around and ultimately was shown up by the ball skills of an obese 39 year old past it Neville Southall.
My question though is this: Why do people attack Moyes for the fact he has a few talentless workhorses and praise Joe Royle when he had an entire team of them? Am I the only one who can look past the flukey cup win and see that Royle left us in worse shape than he found us? Seriously people I challenge you to watch videos of any games in the Smith era and tell me Moyes's team play crap football.
Royle had the team playing well for about 3 months at the start of the 96-97 season with Barmby, Kanchelskis and Speed playing some lovely stuff but it all came to an end with the return of Dunc at the end of the 7-1 mauling of Southampton. Royle quickly turned back to his route-one past and the team we saw play out that season was much much much shittier than anything we have ever seen under Moyes.
Kieran Kinsella, Posted 25/09/2007 at 23:24:41
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Steve Syder
2 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:07:13
2 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:07:13
Comparing Moyes and Royle is a good idea, because their similarities identify the root of our problem - Royle was a good manager if you were in a relegations scrap or a fight for promotion from the lower league, but he could take us no further.
Moyes is a good manager if you need dragging from perrenial strugglers to mid table mediocrity, but that’s all he seems able to do.
Moyes is a good manager if you need dragging from perrenial strugglers to mid table mediocrity, but that’s all he seems able to do.
Kev Kendall
3 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:30:58
3 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:30:58
Does anyone else think Joe Parkinson was that bad? I thought he was a great player and his career was cut short by playing with a terrible knee injury. If you are judging him for being outskilled by Southall, Southall happens to be an incredibly skilfull player, and you judging him for being a goalkeeper, are missing the point. Also, since when did being 39 have anything to do with skill or ball control?
Ludicrous.
Also, the 1st few months of the 96/97 season we where shite. If I recall we had a couple of good results but Kanchelskis, couple of goals asside was not playing the way he had been, we were struggling for goals and bought Barmby in to fix that after the forrest game for a record fee, and he proceeded to not score. I think you are talking about the 7-1 game alone here i’m afraid, 96-97 was not a good season.
Ludicrous.
Also, the 1st few months of the 96/97 season we where shite. If I recall we had a couple of good results but Kanchelskis, couple of goals asside was not playing the way he had been, we were struggling for goals and bought Barmby in to fix that after the forrest game for a record fee, and he proceeded to not score. I think you are talking about the 7-1 game alone here i’m afraid, 96-97 was not a good season.
davyd N
4 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:32:52
4 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:32:52
I think these comments are fair..there is a bit of a pro royle vibe on this site. the ’95 cup run was great but we seen some shite that season. 95-6 was really about one outstanding performer. slightly more entertainment then, but the big boot nevertheless! See what happens when the creative players are back. Dont hold yer breath though!
Steve Lyth
5 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:45:27
5 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:45:27
Kieran please stop talking out of your arse, Royles team were not called "The Dogs of War" for nothing.
They could put up a fight lad and never once did Joe,s team get beat 7-0 by anybody.
Flukey cup win MY arse, we were destined to win it with a team that believed in its limited capabilities. We will win nothing under Moyes and his brand of football is the biggest load of shit I have witnessed in all my time of going.
They could put up a fight lad and never once did Joe,s team get beat 7-0 by anybody.
Flukey cup win MY arse, we were destined to win it with a team that believed in its limited capabilities. We will win nothing under Moyes and his brand of football is the biggest load of shit I have witnessed in all my time of going.
Paul Tran
6 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:54:10
6 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:54:10
One similarity between Royle and Moyes. Both were good at getting the best out of mediocre players.
The difference is that flukey or not, I had the pleasure of seeing Royle’s team lift a trophy. That’s how I judge managers. I’d love to see a Moyes team get to a flukey quarter final, never mind win something! Royle’s team also had pace and players who could actiually take a man on and cross.
We’ll never know what would have happened if Royle had stayed. I bet he’s wondering whether he would have been allowed to spend all that money and not win anything in five- plus years.....
The difference is that flukey or not, I had the pleasure of seeing Royle’s team lift a trophy. That’s how I judge managers. I’d love to see a Moyes team get to a flukey quarter final, never mind win something! Royle’s team also had pace and players who could actiually take a man on and cross.
We’ll never know what would have happened if Royle had stayed. I bet he’s wondering whether he would have been allowed to spend all that money and not win anything in five- plus years.....
Steve Ferns
7 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:45:40
7 Posted 26/09/2007 at 09:45:40
Big JP was one of my all time favourite players. Its amazing that to think of someone who played at his peak only 12 years ago is from such a different age. JP has told us that he does not think he’d remain on the pitch for more than 5 mintues if he played now and tackled the way he used to. He was the last real hard man in a blue shirt. I know Carsley might disagree, but he did not have the same strength or aggression as big JP. I remember that game against Sasa Curcic, I think it was in his Bolton days. He ran at big Joe and nutmegged him. It was like a red rag to a bull and Sasa spent the next half hour getting kicked into the air before the manager was forced to pull him off.
Who can ever forget the 4-0 drubbing of middlesbrough and that fantastic headline in the press "short sleeves are for supermen". Big JP had Juninho off injured after only 5 minutes. http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/95-96/reports/boro_home.html He absolutely nailed him. It was a proper old fashioned challenge, he got the ball and then the player. Would have been a red card now regardless.
Back to Big Joe. As you can tell I wear the old rose tinted specs looking back at those days. I was a teenager and those are the days when i think your passion and enthusiasm runs deepest. For all the joy JP, Limpar, Kanchelskis, and Ferguson brought me; i remember the poor football we played. We were the equivalent of a Sam Allardyce Botlon team. Big, strong, competitive and a few flair players who can turn it on, but don’t really get the chance. Not that I’m saying I am anywhere near satisfied with the dross we are currently playing under Moyes. I just remember that it was Royle’s brand of football that stopped my old man from going regularly. Royle’s football easily excused, it was what was needed to get us away from the bottom 3 and everyone did not care. It was only after we got 6th (and missed out on europe) that people wanted a return to the school of science.
For me Big Joe Royle will always be a hero, he saved us and almost got us back to the fringe of the top in just 18 months. We beat Utd in the cup. It was magical after 93/4 and the start of 94/5. But no one can argue can honestly say that the football is better than Moyes. Remember that he had two fantastic wingers in Limpar and Kanchelskis and refused to play them both. Instead playing a left back at left mid!
Who can ever forget the 4-0 drubbing of middlesbrough and that fantastic headline in the press "short sleeves are for supermen". Big JP had Juninho off injured after only 5 minutes. http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/95-96/reports/boro_home.html He absolutely nailed him. It was a proper old fashioned challenge, he got the ball and then the player. Would have been a red card now regardless.
Back to Big Joe. As you can tell I wear the old rose tinted specs looking back at those days. I was a teenager and those are the days when i think your passion and enthusiasm runs deepest. For all the joy JP, Limpar, Kanchelskis, and Ferguson brought me; i remember the poor football we played. We were the equivalent of a Sam Allardyce Botlon team. Big, strong, competitive and a few flair players who can turn it on, but don’t really get the chance. Not that I’m saying I am anywhere near satisfied with the dross we are currently playing under Moyes. I just remember that it was Royle’s brand of football that stopped my old man from going regularly. Royle’s football easily excused, it was what was needed to get us away from the bottom 3 and everyone did not care. It was only after we got 6th (and missed out on europe) that people wanted a return to the school of science.
For me Big Joe Royle will always be a hero, he saved us and almost got us back to the fringe of the top in just 18 months. We beat Utd in the cup. It was magical after 93/4 and the start of 94/5. But no one can argue can honestly say that the football is better than Moyes. Remember that he had two fantastic wingers in Limpar and Kanchelskis and refused to play them both. Instead playing a left back at left mid!
Tony Marsh
8 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:13:46
8 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:13:46
Awfull post.Absolute bollocks.Royal saved Everton from certain relegation.When he took over in November 1994 we were 7 points adrift at the foot of the table and almost down.6 months later we were watching the side lift the FA CUP.What the fuck as Moyes ever won?Couldnt even get Preston through the play offs ands promoted.Stop talking through your arse kieran.
Steve Lyth
9 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:17:22
9 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:17:22
Steve Ferns, I will argue with you all day long,we experienced better football under Big Joe than we ever will under Moyes.
The embarrasments we have experienced with Moyes underline my point and dont call me dishonest I dont like it.
The embarrasments we have experienced with Moyes underline my point and dont call me dishonest I dont like it.
Steve Ferns
10 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:26:56
10 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:26:56
Steve, as I said. Joe’s a hero. He saved us when we looked doomed. I remember all the pain up to October in 94 and how quickly he turned it around. He then won the cup in the same year. He is a hero for that alone. He then got us 6th and we were a whisker for getting 5th, I think it was a goal with ten minutes to go that did it for us. I loved Big Joe. They were happy days.
It is very wrong to say that the football under Royle is better than now. Remember our first choise midfield was Hinchcliffe, Parkinson, Ebbrell and Kanchelskis. Whilst I’d love a fit Kan in our side now the rest wouldn’t get near our current first XI. Could you actually really put your hand on your heart and say it was better watching Unswprth put endless long balls forward looking for ferguson than what you’ve seen in the last 12 months? I think not. That great season were Royle got us 6th was not as good as that exceptional season were Moyes got us 4th. Royle had a big hand in 6th from a world class player in Kanchelskis. Most of you do not put Gravesen in that bracket and he was by far our best player in the season we got fourth.
Please do not mistake this for Moyes is perfect. He’s not. Thursday was one of my darkest days as an Everton fan. We’ve played some atrocious football recently and things look like they are going from bad to worse. Moyes is obviously responsible as he is the manager.
It is very wrong to say that the football under Royle is better than now. Remember our first choise midfield was Hinchcliffe, Parkinson, Ebbrell and Kanchelskis. Whilst I’d love a fit Kan in our side now the rest wouldn’t get near our current first XI. Could you actually really put your hand on your heart and say it was better watching Unswprth put endless long balls forward looking for ferguson than what you’ve seen in the last 12 months? I think not. That great season were Royle got us 6th was not as good as that exceptional season were Moyes got us 4th. Royle had a big hand in 6th from a world class player in Kanchelskis. Most of you do not put Gravesen in that bracket and he was by far our best player in the season we got fourth.
Please do not mistake this for Moyes is perfect. He’s not. Thursday was one of my darkest days as an Everton fan. We’ve played some atrocious football recently and things look like they are going from bad to worse. Moyes is obviously responsible as he is the manager.
Tommy Coleman
11 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:35:15
11 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:35:15
The Royle team had a battling aspect to the game but at least tried to play football, far more effort in trying to play the game properly than Moyes. Limpar and Kanchelskis were worth the entrance fee alone, you don’t win an F.A Cup playing defensive hoofball like we have witnessed in the last 5 years. Hence, unless Moyes has a drastic change of style we will be having the same discussion in another 5 years time with as many trophies as he has brought now.
steve jones
12 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:41:23
12 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:41:23
Steve Ferns, I seem to remmember both Kanchelskis & Limpar playing together when we won 2-1 at Anfield. Limpar’s class setting up the winner. I think more often than not they were never fit at the same time. Hinchcliffe palyed left mid mainly in 94/95 before we’d signed Kanchelskis.
Anyway knocking Royle isn’t really relevant, it’s now we need to be concerned about and the fact Moyes has instilled a fear of playing football into his squad, we play to avoid defeat simple as.
Anyway knocking Royle isn’t really relevant, it’s now we need to be concerned about and the fact Moyes has instilled a fear of playing football into his squad, we play to avoid defeat simple as.
Steve Lyth
13 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:46:56
13 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:46:56
Steve, hand on heart I can say we played better football under big Joe.
Could you see a Moyes team in a semi final ( blatant under dogs at the time ) beating Spurs 4-1 ?
A Moyes team going to Anfield and winning convincingly ?
Joe Royles team gave me more joy than any one of Moyes teams has managed to date. With the exception of notable home victories against Man U and Liverpool and a great performance against Pompey last year, Moyes definately comes a miserable second best to Big Joe.
Could you see a Moyes team in a semi final ( blatant under dogs at the time ) beating Spurs 4-1 ?
A Moyes team going to Anfield and winning convincingly ?
Joe Royles team gave me more joy than any one of Moyes teams has managed to date. With the exception of notable home victories against Man U and Liverpool and a great performance against Pompey last year, Moyes definately comes a miserable second best to Big Joe.
Joe C
14 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:53:54
14 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:53:54
Earl Barrett
Steve Ferns
15 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:55:02
15 Posted 26/09/2007 at 10:55:02
Steve Jones, I wasn’t knocking Big Joe. Did you gloss over the "He’s a hero" part? As for Limpar and Kanchleskis, they played hardly any games together whatsoever. I was a massive fan of Limpar. I got his name on the back of my shirt, and this was the first season when you could do so. Limpar was my favourite, even ahead of Kanchelskis. I remember being so pissed off with Royle for never playing him. Yes there was usually some excuse, but it was usually unless there were injuries to Hinchcliffe or he had to play defence for some reason then Limpar was on the bench. They only played 3 games together in 96/7.
As for now. Its obvious there is something wrong. But getting rid of a manager who has for the most part done well, is premature. If everytime a Utd fan moaned about Alex Ferguson he was sacked then he’d have been sacked many many times over his tenure. Its a managers ability to manouever a club through a storm that really sets him apart. All the greats have to do it (possibly bar Paisley but enough of the RS). If Everton find themselves looking at a relegation dogfight at christmas then we should consider Moyes’ position. Just give him some time. I hate the way some people on here think he’s Jesus when we win a few and then others think he’s Mr. Bean when we lose a few. Truth is he’s neither. He’s a half decent manager. Most in the game usually mention him when talking about about good managers. If we sacked Moyes now, we’d only end up with some foreign halfwit or a young up and coming championship manager. Lets just have some patience.
As for now. Its obvious there is something wrong. But getting rid of a manager who has for the most part done well, is premature. If everytime a Utd fan moaned about Alex Ferguson he was sacked then he’d have been sacked many many times over his tenure. Its a managers ability to manouever a club through a storm that really sets him apart. All the greats have to do it (possibly bar Paisley but enough of the RS). If Everton find themselves looking at a relegation dogfight at christmas then we should consider Moyes’ position. Just give him some time. I hate the way some people on here think he’s Jesus when we win a few and then others think he’s Mr. Bean when we lose a few. Truth is he’s neither. He’s a half decent manager. Most in the game usually mention him when talking about about good managers. If we sacked Moyes now, we’d only end up with some foreign halfwit or a young up and coming championship manager. Lets just have some patience.
Steve Lyth
16 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:08:25
16 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:08:25
Joe C. Neville,Pistone, Naysmith (dont forget Moyes re-signed the latter two) Wright, blah blah blah its all too easy innit.
Steve, 5-6 yrs, the man has had time to build a team with at least the right balance to it surely ?
I reckon we could get Sparky if we tried but there is no chance of us getting anyone else whilst Bill and Dave " Share a dream ", more like Bill and Teds great adventure. Pair of Nuggets both of them.
Steve, 5-6 yrs, the man has had time to build a team with at least the right balance to it surely ?
I reckon we could get Sparky if we tried but there is no chance of us getting anyone else whilst Bill and Dave " Share a dream ", more like Bill and Teds great adventure. Pair of Nuggets both of them.
Michael Newton
17 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:22:40
17 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:22:40
Joe Royle Everton Legend.
Won the league as a player when he was leading scorer, England International, won the FA Cup as a manager, pulled off a Houdini trick to save us from relegation.
David Moyes, journeyman footballer, hasn’t won an eggcup as manager of anyone
Won the league as a player when he was leading scorer, England International, won the FA Cup as a manager, pulled off a Houdini trick to save us from relegation.
David Moyes, journeyman footballer, hasn’t won an eggcup as manager of anyone
Paul C
18 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:08:16
18 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:08:16
5 reasons why Everton will win fuck all this season.
1. Hibbert
2. Neville
3. Carsley
4. Osman
5. Moyes
Get rid of 5 and 1-4 would follow.
1. Hibbert
2. Neville
3. Carsley
4. Osman
5. Moyes
Get rid of 5 and 1-4 would follow.
Brian Waring
19 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:09:55
19 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:09:55
There was just something about the Royle era.I can remember getting up the morning of a game,and pacing round the house with excitement,just itching to get to the match.I just don’t get that feeling anymore.I travel up from Wokingham for the games now,and it seems like a chore for me.Driving up,wondering if there is going to be a chance of us actually playing a bit of decent football.Even when we win,I,m over the moon,but I just don’t get that excitement from it anymore.Also for some people to call the 95 cup win a fluke is fucking ridiclious.Only for that diving german twat,we would have gone all the way through without having conceded a goal.I hope I get that feeling back (that I got from big Joe’s time with us)under Moyes.Thing is,I won’t hold my breath.
Steve Ferns
20 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:18:43
20 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:18:43
Steve, I’d argue that Moyes has done it. Ok, he’s a three steps forward two steps back kind of guy, but there is no doubt that progress has been made. I thnk we’ll get out of this rut. I think that we should get a top 8 finish.
Lets keep things in perspective here. You want Hughes as manager, have you seen Blackburn play? There is a reason Wenger calls them animals and would you really want to watch a team who plays like that? I would not. From 5th downwards on last years table, there is only spurs, who play decent footy. For the rest, we are all pretty similar. Tough midfields with a flair midfielder and maybe some pace on the wings and upfront. Erratic strikers who are flawed but good. There really is not much to pick between Man City, Blackburn, Us, Spurs, Villa, etc. I think all the fans of the non big four have similar gripes. That’s why I don’t think for a second that this is the best league in the world.
Lets keep things in perspective here. You want Hughes as manager, have you seen Blackburn play? There is a reason Wenger calls them animals and would you really want to watch a team who plays like that? I would not. From 5th downwards on last years table, there is only spurs, who play decent footy. For the rest, we are all pretty similar. Tough midfields with a flair midfielder and maybe some pace on the wings and upfront. Erratic strikers who are flawed but good. There really is not much to pick between Man City, Blackburn, Us, Spurs, Villa, etc. I think all the fans of the non big four have similar gripes. That’s why I don’t think for a second that this is the best league in the world.
Steve Lyth
21 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:29:42
21 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:29:42
I dont think Blackburn are animals Steve (nor does Moyes by the way) and I think they have a team capable of playing with some panache and flair, I thought they were very good at our place.
I cannot see how you think Moyes has assembled a balanced squad, indeed for me thats the real story behind our present woes and my main gripe with the man (outside of the defensive shite football we play).Its not the best league in the world mate as you quite rightly say, on that basis I expected a team at least capable of playing football and putting a consistent smile on my face after the lengh of time Moyes has been in charge.
He has managed to do niether in my own opinion.I would agree largely with the views expressed by Brian and Paul C on the subject of Moyes, its bad news when you are no longer excited about going the game. Sparky is a winner, he could do with a large passionate crowd behind him. He would certainly have the respect of the players, what do our players currently respect about Moyes ?
I cannot see how you think Moyes has assembled a balanced squad, indeed for me thats the real story behind our present woes and my main gripe with the man (outside of the defensive shite football we play).Its not the best league in the world mate as you quite rightly say, on that basis I expected a team at least capable of playing football and putting a consistent smile on my face after the lengh of time Moyes has been in charge.
He has managed to do niether in my own opinion.I would agree largely with the views expressed by Brian and Paul C on the subject of Moyes, its bad news when you are no longer excited about going the game. Sparky is a winner, he could do with a large passionate crowd behind him. He would certainly have the respect of the players, what do our players currently respect about Moyes ?
Neil Pearse
22 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:38:49
22 Posted 26/09/2007 at 11:38:49
There may be some terrible truths lurking in all this stuff about ’playing good football’.
The first is (and Tony, I think you are the one with the rose-tinted specs on now) I don’t think Everton have consistently played ’good football’ since the eighties. Certainly not in the Royle and Smith years (although I remember Barmby, Hutchison and Dacourt knocking it about a bit in WS’s first season).
The second is that, Arsenal and ManUre at times apart, few teams do play ’good football’ these days. Mourinho has just been fired, partly, for not doing so. Our friends across the park rarely do. And those teams that have challenged the Big 4 in recent years - e.g. Bolton, Everton, Blackburn - certainly haven’t. Spurs have attempted to play better football, and look where that has got them.
I am certainly not defending Moyes for Hibbert in defence and Neville in midfield, but we should realise that he is hardly alone in his tactics.
The first is (and Tony, I think you are the one with the rose-tinted specs on now) I don’t think Everton have consistently played ’good football’ since the eighties. Certainly not in the Royle and Smith years (although I remember Barmby, Hutchison and Dacourt knocking it about a bit in WS’s first season).
The second is that, Arsenal and ManUre at times apart, few teams do play ’good football’ these days. Mourinho has just been fired, partly, for not doing so. Our friends across the park rarely do. And those teams that have challenged the Big 4 in recent years - e.g. Bolton, Everton, Blackburn - certainly haven’t. Spurs have attempted to play better football, and look where that has got them.
I am certainly not defending Moyes for Hibbert in defence and Neville in midfield, but we should realise that he is hardly alone in his tactics.
Steve Lyth
23 Posted 26/09/2007 at 12:07:27
23 Posted 26/09/2007 at 12:07:27
Sorry Neil, did you say tactics ?
Neil Pearse
24 Posted 26/09/2007 at 12:13:57
24 Posted 26/09/2007 at 12:13:57
Steve - I didn’t say I thought they were GOOD tactics! Personally, I think kicking the ball into the corners for AJ to chase, and expecting Yakubu to chase back to his own half is stupid.
Steve Lyth
25 Posted 26/09/2007 at 12:27:00
25 Posted 26/09/2007 at 12:27:00
I know Neil its all rather dismal at the mo mate, do you remember the last time you felt like Mr Waring ? For me it was around the same time, oh for some exciting footy.
Peter Roberts
26 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:04:51
26 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:04:51
If you ask me, the beginning of the end of Joe Royle was the injury to Andy Hinchcliffe. Unsworth was playing centre half and not left back where he could have played, and Royle needed a good crosser of the ball from the left hand side - then went and bought Terry Phelan (who he?)
Up until that point, the entire 95/96 season we were playing enterprising football with Kanchelskis on one wing and Limpar on the other. How on earth anyone could say we had such a bereft lack of talent boggles my mind so much it’s nearly exploded. The following season, we got off to a bad start and Kanchelskis was nowhere near the form of the previous season. That was what was ultimately Royle’s downfall - losing his two most creative players. Let’s pray the same doesn’t happen to Arteta!
Up until that point, the entire 95/96 season we were playing enterprising football with Kanchelskis on one wing and Limpar on the other. How on earth anyone could say we had such a bereft lack of talent boggles my mind so much it’s nearly exploded. The following season, we got off to a bad start and Kanchelskis was nowhere near the form of the previous season. That was what was ultimately Royle’s downfall - losing his two most creative players. Let’s pray the same doesn’t happen to Arteta!
Anthony Jaras
27 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:31:43
27 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:31:43
Parkinson was quality as a ball-winner, unfortunately he was paired with another - Barry Horne.
That team with Limpar and Kanchelkis on the wing was only really joined by Gary Speed the year after which finished a credible 6th in Big Joes final year.
Parkinson is one of my heroes as a youngster going to Goodison.
That team with Limpar and Kanchelkis on the wing was only really joined by Gary Speed the year after which finished a credible 6th in Big Joes final year.
Parkinson is one of my heroes as a youngster going to Goodison.
Joe C
28 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:32:24
28 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:32:24
Stalin would not have done as good a job rewriting history as some of the posters on here. I remember the team of Joe Royle. I loved the guy as a player - he scored the first Everton goal I ever saw live, a penalty against Gordon Banks in a 1-0 win against Stoke - but let’s get real: Joe Royle *was* a true legend as a player, but he was a limited manager. As has been proved since he left EFC. Yes, he put together a six match FA Cup win, and there is no denying he provided the single bright spark for Everton Football Club in the last 20 years. But he could not take us to the "next level", and in fact he quit when things went against him, and when he was most needed too. Bradford City, Kanchelskis, Joe Royle. Quitting at that particular time was, to me, unforgivable. A few years later the same vile Chairman, Agent Johnson, put Walter Smith in a similar position. He dug his heels in and stayed,and the Chairman’s position was untenable and he left. I will always be grateful to Smith for ridding our club of that cancer.
Let’s get one thing straight - because I watched Everton home and away under Joe Royle - Royle’s philosophy was that you won, and if you had to win ugly then you got ugly. His team played well in some key matches, the Elland ROad demolition of Spurs my personal favourite by a good way, and when Kanchelskis could be arsed for the ’95-’96 season he was a one man demoliton team. Joe Royle had an uncanny and enviable ability for the big games, along with Duncan Ferguson (who was a Mike Walker loan signing don’t forget). But mostly the football I remember under Joe Royle was, well, completely forgettable.
Which is probably why some people here have filled in some gaps in their memories.
As for the comment here trying to link playing career with managerial ability to try and gain some more kind of leverage to have a go at Moyes, well it’s completely laughable. It has been proved over and over there is no connection between the two.
Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger - none of them were any great shakes on the pitch (I don’t think ’journeyman’ is a term that could be applied to any of them or David Moyes either, it means something else). Conversely, Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Alan Ball... the list of great players who could not manage goes on and on.
Let’s get one thing straight - because I watched Everton home and away under Joe Royle - Royle’s philosophy was that you won, and if you had to win ugly then you got ugly. His team played well in some key matches, the Elland ROad demolition of Spurs my personal favourite by a good way, and when Kanchelskis could be arsed for the ’95-’96 season he was a one man demoliton team. Joe Royle had an uncanny and enviable ability for the big games, along with Duncan Ferguson (who was a Mike Walker loan signing don’t forget). But mostly the football I remember under Joe Royle was, well, completely forgettable.
Which is probably why some people here have filled in some gaps in their memories.
As for the comment here trying to link playing career with managerial ability to try and gain some more kind of leverage to have a go at Moyes, well it’s completely laughable. It has been proved over and over there is no connection between the two.
Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger - none of them were any great shakes on the pitch (I don’t think ’journeyman’ is a term that could be applied to any of them or David Moyes either, it means something else). Conversely, Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Alan Ball... the list of great players who could not manage goes on and on.
Steve Lyth
29 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:36:11
29 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:36:11
Anthony, what do you mean unfortunately ?
Dont have a go at Zico lad, that goal against Wimbledon will keep him in our hearts forever.
Dont have a go at Zico lad, that goal against Wimbledon will keep him in our hearts forever.
Steve Lyth
30 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:44:38
30 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:44:38
Joe C, Big Joe limited, your laughable fella, name one manager who could have accomplished the feats that Joe did with fuck all money at Oldham Athletic ?
As for your analogy of ex great players becoming great managers, I would agree with you.
I said Sparky was a winner and would get the respect of the players and he has not done a bad job with Blackburn so far, his record to date is comparable with Moyes. Stalin my arse.
As for your analogy of ex great players becoming great managers, I would agree with you.
I said Sparky was a winner and would get the respect of the players and he has not done a bad job with Blackburn so far, his record to date is comparable with Moyes. Stalin my arse.
Steve Lyth
31 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:05:43
31 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:05:43
Oh Joe another thing, Royle did not quit, try reading his book, it might also help you change your mind on his supposed limitations since vacating the Everton managers post.
Joe C
32 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:09:11
32 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:09:11
Steve Lyth - what "feats" with Oldham exactly? If you are talking about taking small clubs into bigger ponds for a short time before they collapse again then off the top of my head I will name Graham Taylor and Harry Bassett.
The game has changed dramatically by the way since the mid ’90s, as is borne out by the fact that no team outside of the so called Big 4 has won it for years now. In fact Royle’s win was the end of an era in some respects for Cup upsets.
I suggest you talk to Ipswich Town supporters by the way as well for a more balanced view of Big Joe.
I still love the guy though!
The game has changed dramatically by the way since the mid ’90s, as is borne out by the fact that no team outside of the so called Big 4 has won it for years now. In fact Royle’s win was the end of an era in some respects for Cup upsets.
I suggest you talk to Ipswich Town supporters by the way as well for a more balanced view of Big Joe.
I still love the guy though!
Steve Lyth
33 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:21:51
33 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:21:51
3 FA Cup Semi finals,1 League Cup final, winning the league and keeping them in the Prem for two seasons aint bad in my book for a club with no money.
Why would I want to talk to Ipswich fans Joe ? I am happy enough with what Royle achieved as manager of EFC, in my opinion he did a better job than Moyes is currently doing and his record thus far is proof of that.Moyes has had plenty of money, bring on the FA Cup, I dont think.
Why would I want to talk to Ipswich fans Joe ? I am happy enough with what Royle achieved as manager of EFC, in my opinion he did a better job than Moyes is currently doing and his record thus far is proof of that.Moyes has had plenty of money, bring on the FA Cup, I dont think.
Declan Brown
34 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:47:49
34 Posted 26/09/2007 at 13:47:49
The mention of Royle always brings back incredible spine tingling memories, his first Goodison Derby, getting a 0-0 at Anfield where Southall made one save all night, Royle’s team always gave Utd a tough game at home and away (anyone remember Dunc’s double that had us 2-0 up?), the glorious FA Cup run.
Then the spine tingling sight of Limpar dancing through 4 Liverpool players, a side rule pass to Kanchelskis, bang, it was 2-0 to the blues at the Kop End. Then listening to Ian Rush whingeing afterwards about Everton being too direct, i called that incisive when it mattered most, was just priceless indeed.
Was the Limpar story not that he never played for Royle after he was substituted, went down the tunnel telling an opposing team’s official "i hope you beat them (them being Everton)" and one of ours overheard it. Royle found out, never picked Limpar after that, rightly so i’d say. Not sure it was 100% correct but i heard that rumour a few times.
Comparing Moyes to Royle, i’d take Royle everytime. You always knew that what we lacked in skill and class those guys made up in battling, they never capitulated like we do under Moyes.
I really fear for us sometimes when we are about to play the Big 4, Big Joe’s teams always seemed to relish and understand the occassion of those games.
I think if Big Joe had a chairman’s support like Kenwright’s back then we would have gone on to better things, every manager has a woeful season at some point where his position is questioned, we got rid of Royle in a disgraceful manner when we should have stuck by him).
Joe Parkinson was a good midfielder, him, Ebbrell and Horne never gave away much in the battling stakes, they had big hearts for the fight and cause.
I just wonder sometimes what Moyes drills into them during training. I wish sometimes he’d let them off the leash and let them play because we have players who can play and mix it. The tactics are definitely the problem, although i like Moyes as a man, but as a manager, i’m just not convinced he can go to the next level (Top 4, cup runs, Europe etc etc).
Then the spine tingling sight of Limpar dancing through 4 Liverpool players, a side rule pass to Kanchelskis, bang, it was 2-0 to the blues at the Kop End. Then listening to Ian Rush whingeing afterwards about Everton being too direct, i called that incisive when it mattered most, was just priceless indeed.
Was the Limpar story not that he never played for Royle after he was substituted, went down the tunnel telling an opposing team’s official "i hope you beat them (them being Everton)" and one of ours overheard it. Royle found out, never picked Limpar after that, rightly so i’d say. Not sure it was 100% correct but i heard that rumour a few times.
Comparing Moyes to Royle, i’d take Royle everytime. You always knew that what we lacked in skill and class those guys made up in battling, they never capitulated like we do under Moyes.
I really fear for us sometimes when we are about to play the Big 4, Big Joe’s teams always seemed to relish and understand the occassion of those games.
I think if Big Joe had a chairman’s support like Kenwright’s back then we would have gone on to better things, every manager has a woeful season at some point where his position is questioned, we got rid of Royle in a disgraceful manner when we should have stuck by him).
Joe Parkinson was a good midfielder, him, Ebbrell and Horne never gave away much in the battling stakes, they had big hearts for the fight and cause.
I just wonder sometimes what Moyes drills into them during training. I wish sometimes he’d let them off the leash and let them play because we have players who can play and mix it. The tactics are definitely the problem, although i like Moyes as a man, but as a manager, i’m just not convinced he can go to the next level (Top 4, cup runs, Europe etc etc).
Dave Lynch
35 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:17:00
35 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:17:00
Christ !
The comparison does not stand up.
Everyone hated the thought of coming to goodison, under BIG JOE it was a fortress.
If you wanted 3 points then you had to work fucking hard for them and battle for your life.
These days we are a pushover and everyone knows it.
As someone mentioned we never got beat by 5s, 6s, 7s under the BIG MAN.
He was a true evertonian and leaving us near broke his heart.
That semi against Spurs will forever live in my memory, the feeling of elation was better than winning the cup itself.
God bless BIG AMMO for trotting on when he shouldn’t have done.
I fear i will never have that feeling again.
The comparison does not stand up.
Everyone hated the thought of coming to goodison, under BIG JOE it was a fortress.
If you wanted 3 points then you had to work fucking hard for them and battle for your life.
These days we are a pushover and everyone knows it.
As someone mentioned we never got beat by 5s, 6s, 7s under the BIG MAN.
He was a true evertonian and leaving us near broke his heart.
That semi against Spurs will forever live in my memory, the feeling of elation was better than winning the cup itself.
God bless BIG AMMO for trotting on when he shouldn’t have done.
I fear i will never have that feeling again.
David Mathieson
36 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:26:38
36 Posted 26/09/2007 at 14:26:38
I am reading and feelng old am only 20 aswll god knows how su of u feel :)
Ray
37 Posted 26/09/2007 at 15:22:32
37 Posted 26/09/2007 at 15:22:32
I must say that when we won the FA cup in 95 I had only just begun watching the Blues about two years previously and the Joe Royle era got me really excited..The best thing about winning the FA cup was that the following season we actually moved on in terms of league positions and entertainment levels..When Royal first came to the club we had to win ugly and keep it tight defensively..It want pretty but it worked..Then when Kanchelskis came in we were treated to some breath taking quality and not just from one player..We were a genuine good team back then and we were even mentioned as dark horses for the title at one stage in late 1996..Who can forget the wins at Highbury and Anfield? The 3-0 defeat of Blackburn at Ewood Park when they were Champions? The thrashing of Premiership second favourites Newcastle on the opening day of 96? The downfall was sacking Royle when they did and being promised the world after that only to be given Kendall back for a third time..Thats when everything went down hill from the standard of player to the general standard of football. Moyes has been here for five years and I really do think in order to be completely loved as a manager you do need a trophy to bring home. It would be nice if he was the first Everton manager to win us the League Cup..Will he ever win us a trophy?
Brian Waring
38 Posted 26/09/2007 at 18:50:41
38 Posted 26/09/2007 at 18:50:41
Joe C,I remember the Royle era,like it was only yesterday.Would I be able to say the same about Moyes in 10yrs time?I doubt it.
steve jones
39 Posted 27/09/2007 at 13:50:57
39 Posted 27/09/2007 at 13:50:57
steve ferns. Limpar made only two appearances for the club during the 1996-97 season and was sold to Birmingham City in January 1997 for £100,000. Royle also left in March of that season. My point was we went to Anfield played 4,4,2 with 2 out & out wingers and went for the win and it paid off. The only full season they were both at the club was 95/96 stats were;
Limpar
1995-96 29(8)In all competitions
Kanchelskis
36(-)
So they played together more often than not.
Limpar
1995-96 29(8)In all competitions
Kanchelskis
36(-)
So they played together more often than not.
Neil A
40 Posted 27/09/2007 at 16:20:25
40 Posted 27/09/2007 at 16:20:25
Keiran has more than a point. As much as i loved Joe, his team plan was held back by the crappy players he had. I remember Nev saying about Earl Barrett, (ten times worse than Hibbo) that if he passed the ball straight with his first pass, he might be okay for the rest of the game, but if the opposite happened.............!
I remember watching him and he couldnt kick it straight down the line it always ended up taking some kids coke out in the enclosure!
David Unsworth had the best pass completion rate of all players in the prem the year we won the cup. That was because Rideout, Ferguson or Stuart got their head to it. He had one pass........curling left footer from left centre to right inside forward.
Rideout was slow, Stuart was slow, Duncan...well Duncan!
Parkinson, Horne and the rest tackled crisp packets and that is about it. Flair in that team? A slow John Ebbrell and Limpar. Kanchelskis was just about the best of it the season after the cup win when Royle tried to change the up and under to ’progressive football’ as he said. Apparently he tried to introduce this to all the teams at Everton so that they all played the same way. But the players were still crap!
Moyes on other hand has tried to change more gently. One or two quality players per season, supplemented by worker players and young players and the odd left over from the Smith era. I think it is coming together. He has tried to play more attacking football since the affair against Spurs last season and as a result scored more goals. This term though we have failed to keep clean sheets. Its getting the balance right. I feel he is trying to decide his best team and formation. Neville to right back for me, to lend experience to the centre backs, Jag and Arteta or Graveson in the centre. Piennar and Mcfadden or Ossie down flanks. Perm any 2 from the strikers, but Johnson is the best of them along with Vaughan, a superstar in the making if he can stay fit.
We need class for the middle and we should spend the Fernandez money at Christmas.
I feel we have more to be pleased about now than at any time during the Royle era, FA cup apart. I never felt back then that we had solid foundations or were really moving forward.
As for Tony Hibbert. I believe he is a good defender, but since the howler last season against Man U he has lost his confidence. I would like to think he will find his passing ability, but he never had any! Time to move him on!
Moyes V Royle? Moyes by 10 lengths!
I remember watching him and he couldnt kick it straight down the line it always ended up taking some kids coke out in the enclosure!
David Unsworth had the best pass completion rate of all players in the prem the year we won the cup. That was because Rideout, Ferguson or Stuart got their head to it. He had one pass........curling left footer from left centre to right inside forward.
Rideout was slow, Stuart was slow, Duncan...well Duncan!
Parkinson, Horne and the rest tackled crisp packets and that is about it. Flair in that team? A slow John Ebbrell and Limpar. Kanchelskis was just about the best of it the season after the cup win when Royle tried to change the up and under to ’progressive football’ as he said. Apparently he tried to introduce this to all the teams at Everton so that they all played the same way. But the players were still crap!
Moyes on other hand has tried to change more gently. One or two quality players per season, supplemented by worker players and young players and the odd left over from the Smith era. I think it is coming together. He has tried to play more attacking football since the affair against Spurs last season and as a result scored more goals. This term though we have failed to keep clean sheets. Its getting the balance right. I feel he is trying to decide his best team and formation. Neville to right back for me, to lend experience to the centre backs, Jag and Arteta or Graveson in the centre. Piennar and Mcfadden or Ossie down flanks. Perm any 2 from the strikers, but Johnson is the best of them along with Vaughan, a superstar in the making if he can stay fit.
We need class for the middle and we should spend the Fernandez money at Christmas.
I feel we have more to be pleased about now than at any time during the Royle era, FA cup apart. I never felt back then that we had solid foundations or were really moving forward.
As for Tony Hibbert. I believe he is a good defender, but since the howler last season against Man U he has lost his confidence. I would like to think he will find his passing ability, but he never had any! Time to move him on!
Moyes V Royle? Moyes by 10 lengths!
john Crawley
41 Posted 27/09/2007 at 20:41:29
41 Posted 27/09/2007 at 20:41:29
Joe Royle everytime, one game sums it up Everton 4 - Spurs 1. One of the great footballing semi-final performances of all time and certainly the best football I have seen Everton play in the last 20 years.
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1 Posted 26/09/2007 at 08:17:23
Whereas we used to play useless football, with no result because of a very poor strike force, we now play reasonably good football but have no cutting edge or creativity in midfield. Admittedly, we should have an almost ’new’ midfield of Arteta, Cahill and Gravesen to come back, all of whom will add a better level of skill to the team.
I think people who jump on Moyes back need to remember that we are still a team in transition and I do think that we will come good. We will get Vaughan back later in the year as well to add more competition up front.
It is a sticky run of form at the moment but we are playing a second rate Championship side tonight who I fully expect us to beat. If we don’t, maybe then I’ll be a bit more concerned.