ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Whats all the worry?

The reason we lost to Aston Villa was simple ? a lack of creativity in the midfield. The reason we have no creativity is no ones fault other than bad luck. What would be our best midfield is unable to play due to injuries with Arteta, Cahill and Gravesen with the troubled Van der Meyde seemingly dommed (surley he is worth another chance ? he and Arteta could potentially be the best two wingers in the Prem) to the exit door.

Moyes does not deserve criticism for results of late, any team would struggle without their best midfield. This is also coupled with the loss of who I believe is our best forward in James Vaughan. He, with an in-form Johnson in the long run is our best option.

However one thing I would question is sticking with 4-4-2 while this injury crisis is on. Would not a 4-5-1 with Neville at right back, Carsley and Jagielka holding and McFadden, Osman and Pienaar pushing up to support the lone johnson be better? This system worked brilliantly last season and, until we get the players back, I think going back to the tried and trusted method would be best.
James O'Neill, Liverpool Posted 28/09/2007 at 13:53:55

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Ben Howard
1 Posted 28/09/2007 at 16:04:48

I have to agree James.

Much as I campaigned for Moyes to adopt a more attacking line up of 4-4-2, given our current midfield crisis I’d say it’s worth a shot until we get at least one of those 3 back.

The Yak will need some games to form a relationship with AJ or Faddy but that might have to wait while we get through this rocky patch.

Given that we’ve had one of the smallest squads over the last few years in the Premiership, we’ve been very lucky with injuries and suspensions.

I’m hoping that we see more attacking, expansive and daring football once these crucial players come back into the fold.

Joe Rourke
2 Posted 28/09/2007 at 16:16:38

Man City have a bit of a forward injury crisis at the moment did that last weekend and got a result...Moyes needs to be a bit more flexible as a manager if he is to kick on in his development...

Nathan Turley
3 Posted 28/09/2007 at 16:28:55

Sure our midfield is crap but our strikers leave much to be desired and some of the defending this season has been abysmal.Every side has suffered injuries and Moyes was given the money to get our squad up to the task.He chose to blow most of it on a lazy goal hanger who is the antithese of what his teams are all about-high action and work-rate.
The moneymen left it too late to secure Fernandes and Graveson is well past his sell date.
Expect to see Stubbs permanently restored to the defence with Lescott and Yobo rotated in support.
Finishing prediction-10th.

Tony Marsh
4 Posted 28/09/2007 at 16:48:27

Nathan - 10th you got to be kidding with MOYES in charge!!! Think of a number between 15 and 20 this season mate.

Tony Williams
5 Posted 28/09/2007 at 16:54:04

And there it is again, when any kind of optimism is shown there is always a poster who wants to piss on their chips.

Why 15-20?, are we on par with Derby and Sunderland now?

We lose two games, one against the reigning champions and all of a sudden it is doom and gloom.

Show me a team (apart from the top 4/5)that loses 3 of their starting XI, 2 from midfield and all will still be hunky dorey?

Jay Campbell
6 Posted 28/09/2007 at 17:28:53

James it’s MOYES that continue’s to pick these players who cannot perform in Midfield and various other position’s every week!!! Anyone can clearly see that these players(Hibbert, Osman, Stubbs, McFadden, Valente, VDM, Carsley etc) are crap and should be offloaded. How many years have they been at the club and quite frankly have got worse not better. I can see that along wi thousands of other’s so why can’t he??? All sucessful club’s don’t have passengers so you can forget about any trophies coming our way coz we’ve got loads of them. All at our managers blessing as well.

David Barks
7 Posted 28/09/2007 at 17:46:31

Jay,
It’s so easy to play FM with your team when you don’t actually have to come up with the money to sign players and pay their wages. Why don’t we go out and buy a midfield of Brazilian and Italian international? Stubbs hasn’t been shit for us, neither has Carsley. Their not the best in the world but they certainly haven’t gotten worse over the years. Carsley and Stubbs were a huge part of our success last year. McFadden just scored two goals in midweek to bring his total to 3 in just a few games this season. If anything McFadden seems to be getting better than when he first got here. The boy still has a way to go but he has scored 4 goals in the past two weeks for Scotland and Everton. Also, somehow I don’t think all those players would be playing as much if Arteta, Cahill, Gravesen, and Vaughan were fit. Should we be throwing Cahill out there with a broken foot instead of Carsley or Osman???

Anthony Newell
8 Posted 28/09/2007 at 17:53:50

The apologists bide their time then rear their heads once again from wherever they choose to bury them

We need a top drawer European manager to now move this great club forward - Guss Hiddink would do the trick

A season of promise gone to fuck - that’s Moyes’ fault

David Barks
9 Posted 28/09/2007 at 17:58:19

Okay Anthony,
it’s Moyes fault that Cahill broke his foot before the season started. It’s Moyes fault that Arteta hurt his foot and has been unable to play in the last 3 games. It’s Moyes fault that Gravesen injured his knee and missed the last 4 games. It’s Moyes fault that Vaughan injured his shoulder in a fall and has missed all season. It’s Moyes fault that the Ref blew back AJ’s first penalty that would have given us a 2-0 lead. So the season’s over after just a couple of games then, well that’s news to me. We haven’t even played every team in the league yet, but okay, you can pack it in. Does that mean the January window already passed? Damn, I guess we didn’t sign anyone again. And Hiddink, he’s going to choose to come to Everton over Chelsea and their hundreds of millions and location in London. You really are delusional mate. You should get some help with that.

Bluebyu
10 Posted 28/09/2007 at 18:08:39

Whats all the worry-- paper thin squad to fight on four fronts thats the worry

David Barks
11 Posted 28/09/2007 at 18:12:55

Paper thin???? We have our keeper and 3 of our starting midfielders out. I’ll let you in on a little secret, any club who loses their first choice keeper, 3 of their starting midfielders, and one of their starting strikers, will struggle to play together as a team and performances will not be as good as they would have been if all those players were fit and in the side. I’m sure United would be just as good with Ronaldo, Scholes, Carrick, Van Der Saar, and Rooney all out of action.

Blubyu
12 Posted 28/09/2007 at 18:19:37

Arsenal,Liverpool,Chelsea,Reading,ManCity. all pretty well covered.
Man u had a load out start of season. Rooney.Saha.Hargreaves
Ronaldo suspended .Do your homework
Also you missed the point.Competing on FOUR fronts requires the numbers We aint got em . Whos fault

David Barks
13 Posted 28/09/2007 at 18:25:57

HAHA. Are you serious? You’re comparing our financial ability to field a team with Arsean, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City???? Yes, those players were out for United, and they struggled. Were you not watching any of the games. They have hardly been able to score goals, drew 0-0 against 10 man Readingm drew 1-1 with Pompey, lost 1-0 to City, struggle to beat Sunderland at home 1-0. Yeah, I’d say they missed those players. And how did you include Reading in there, they have definitely been struggling lately.

Bluebyu
14 Posted 28/09/2007 at 18:32:44

Answer the question. Low on numbers to fight on FOUR fronts-Whos fault

Rocky O,Rourke
15 Posted 28/09/2007 at 18:33:45

Stubbsy is a true blue who played some great games last season such as the away derby so get off his back.

Playing upfront is about scoring. McFadden must play on Sunday. Simple as.

David Barks
16 Posted 28/09/2007 at 18:37:03

We are not low on numbers to fight on 4 fronts, we just got hit with major injuries to our most important players all at once.

Bluebyu
17 Posted 28/09/2007 at 18:42:56

David cant you see that we have NO remotely similar cover for Timmy Tommy or Mikel.They may get injured,suspended or lose form at anytime Thats footy.We cant cover them Thats the worry and its someones fault as we knew the competitions we faced

David Barks
18 Posted 28/09/2007 at 18:48:55

No, we can’t cover them all being out all at once. If one goes out we could cover, if two go out we will struggle but might be able to do something, if all three go out at the same time, you are missing 3 of your 4 first team midfielders. Nobody will just throw 3 others in there without missing a beat.

Lee Spargo
19 Posted 28/09/2007 at 19:28:09

Tony, Nathan:

finishing prediction - no lower than 6th.

Have a bit of faith.

Anthony Newell
20 Posted 28/09/2007 at 20:01:14

As I said, the apologists bide their time then rear their heads once again from wherever they choose to bury them!

David Barks
21 Posted 28/09/2007 at 20:39:06

I know Anthony, don’t you just hate reasonable talk about how the amount of injuries we’ve sustained in the first weeks of the season would greatly effect any team. I mean, so what that we’ve lost 3 of our 4 starting midfielders, we should have 10 more of equal quality just sitting politely on the bench for these situations that might never arise. That’s what Chelsea have so why shouldn’t we. Oh yeah, reality says we don’t have a Russian billionaire as an owner.

Bluebyu
22 Posted 28/09/2007 at 20:43:57

We have a left sided creative player missing a central creative midfielder missing and a combative midfielder missing and NO cover for any one of them.
You dont need a billionaire owner just a manager and board who recognise we are very short in those areas even if we hadnt gone into europe.

Mark Stone
23 Posted 28/09/2007 at 21:03:04

Tony I’ll have you a bet £50 Everton finish above 15th under Moyes this season. You got paypal?

David Barks
24 Posted 28/09/2007 at 21:29:34

Bluebyu,

Lets try again. If just Arteta was missing we could have Gravesen distributing the ball, Cahill getting forward, Pienaar filling in for Arteta, and Osman on the other side. If just Cahill is out we would have Arteta and Gravesen as the creative midfieders with Arteta on one of the wings, Osman or Pienaar on the other wing and Carsley or Jagielka in a holding role. If just Gravesen was out we could have Arteta as the creative midfielder working one of the wings, Cahill in the attacking midfield role, Pienaar on the other wing and again Carsley or Jagielka in the holding role. But when all three are out at the same time any team is going to struggle to find the same quality of midfield as if they were all in there. Take Gerrard, Alonso, and Mascherano out of Liverpool’s lineup for 2 or 3 weeks and tell me that they would carry on without missing a beat. They would not be as good as they would if those players were fit and in the lineup.

David Barks
25 Posted 28/09/2007 at 21:43:24

Mark, I’ll join you in that bet. Let’s make it 200 that Everton will finish higher than 15th. Come on Tony, put your money where your mouth is. You love spouting off as if you know all, so if you’re so sure lets make a little friendly wager. That way you could finally be happy, you could actually be going against Everton and hope for us to lose and try to make money off of it.

al reddish
26 Posted 28/09/2007 at 21:34:55

god this is getting boring.all i read is moyes is shit, neville is shit, osman is shit,aj is past it, hibbert should be put down.we are meant to be everton, you know, all standing together as one and before i get shot down in flames by some editor telling me that i am wrong for saying i cant stop people having an opinion [even though i dont see any critisism when the shoe is on the other foot!], i do agree to some extent about the style of our play and the players that are out of form. i dont however blame david moyes [who is still getting over his mothers recent death], for injuries to key players and the downfall of avdm, [good luck to the lad in his personal life].
we have ben unlucky so far and that is it. this is still the man that has brought us european football back to goodison [and if it takes us 2 or 3 attempts to get it rght then so be it], has stabalised the club [yes, that is a form of success] and has raised expectations beyond relegation survival.judge the man when he has a fully fit squad, until then stop the hate campaigns [especially on hibbert, he has lost form, not turned into a red shite, and probably would not feature so much on current form if we had a fit midfield!]. i do attend the matches and will be there again on sunday and i hope all of you will help me play a part in supporting our great club and be the twelth man on the pitch for them!!!!!!!!!

David Barks
27 Posted 28/09/2007 at 22:01:20

Uhoh Gavin,

now we’re going to be told not to insult fellow Blues. Although it’s okay to call us apologists, and that it’s fans like us who will be the downfall of the club and all that. That’s okay of course.

Bluebyu
28 Posted 28/09/2007 at 22:07:56

Lets try again David.If any of these players are missing we have no one of their speciality in any of the positions they occupy thus making it very difficult to prosper in any competition to a standard that our club should aspire to.
All for the sake of no adequate cover in positions that were glaringly obvious to anyone who watches the team on a regular basis at the end of last season.
Instead we get square pegs in round holes as even you advocate. i dont think this is good enough.Moyes himself said he had raised the bar which in turn gives us greater expectation and when a lot of us see the deriliction of midfield building we are narked.
I really really hope this situation does not see us out of Europe at the first hurdle yet again

Keith Malloy
29 Posted 28/09/2007 at 22:47:46

I declare Bluebyu the winner by of a KO

Joachim Alm
30 Posted 28/09/2007 at 22:35:46

Like it would be something new to see Everton fall on the first hurdle at a euro cup? I has happend everytime except that one time when we won!

David Barks
31 Posted 28/09/2007 at 22:41:26

Oh my God bluebyu,

When Cahill was the only one missing we had Pienaar and Osman who could both fill in for him. If Gravesen was the only player missing we could have Arteta play that role with Osman and Pienaar on the wings or Van Der Meyde now that he’s back. We could also have Van Der Meyde cover Cahill’s spot now that he’s back with the squad. Van Der Meyde could come in for Arteta on the wing. We have cover, but many of them were all injured at the same time. If Vaughan, AJ, Anichebe all go out injured leaving us with just two strikers you can’t blame the manager for that. We have been without 3 midfielders, 4 if you count Andy, and Pienaar was also injured for one of those game. 5 midfielders out, how big of a fucking squad do you want. Again, we’re not Chelsea.

David Barks
32 Posted 29/09/2007 at 02:13:12

No bluebyu, the "how big of a fucking squad do you want" line was written in a way that if we were talking in person, I’d be laughing at you as I was saying it, not in anger. You are talking about having two Arteta’s, two Cahills, two Gravesens. There are only a hundful of clubs that are able to do that, and their names are Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, and perhaps Liverpool. You can live in a FM fantasy world of us having two players of equally great skill and talent at every position, but I prefer to live in reality. We do not have those financial abilities, nor does most teams in the world. That is why the "Big Four" are called the "Big Four". They have the money, the rest of us are just trying to catch up, which doesn’t just happen over night.

Michael Kenrick
33 Posted 29/09/2007 at 05:38:30

So this is what goes on when I have better things to do with my time than police these threads...

It?s quite simple: either you lot raise the the standard of debate and stop this bullshit or I close the threads.

And yes, this one is now closed.